Terminator for 80-wire IDE lead to prevent BIOS problem?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

I often move my hard drives around between my home PCs. I use 80-conductor
ribbon leads. All my hard drives are configured for Cable Select.

When I have two hard drives on my primary IDE port and I remove the one at
the far end then my BIOS recognises the drive in the middle but then it
stops booting and says

"Primary Master Hard Disk fail".

Is there some sort of terminator I can put on the end of the ribbon cable to
fool the BIOS that the primary master drive is there?

 

[Kent_Diego]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

> I often move my hard drives around between my home PCs. I use
80-conductor
> ribbon leads. All my hard drives are configured for Cable Select.
>

To use cable select with two drives, you need specially modified cable. It
is not uncommon to damage an IDE cable with frequent use.

-Kent

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"John Smith" <someone@microsoft.com> writes:
>
> Aren't all 80 conductor cables effectively "cable select" with the master at
> the far end and the slave in the middle?

This would explain the original poster's problem. He pulls the master
off the cable and wonders why the computer won't boot. The answer is
because there is no master.

Jeff
--
Remove "no" and "spam" from email address to reply.
If it says "This is not spam!", it's surely a lie.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Not that I've ever heard.
Is the Primary master used as the boot drive ?

"John Smith" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:407bf379$0$81990$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> I often move my hard drives around between my home PCs. I use
80-conductor
> ribbon leads. All my hard drives are configured for Cable Select.
>
> When I have two hard drives on my primary IDE port and I remove the one at
> the far end then my BIOS recognises the drive in the middle but then it
> stops booting and says
>
> "Primary Master Hard Disk fail".
>
> Is there some sort of terminator I can put on the end of the ribbon cable
to
> fool the BIOS that the primary master drive is there?
>
>
>

 

[peter]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/document.95/95-168r1.pdf
Never leave IDE cable without a hard drive attached at the end!

"John Smith" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:407bf379$0$81990$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> I often move my hard drives around between my home PCs. I use
80-conductor
> ribbon leads. All my hard drives are configured for Cable Select.
>
> When I have two hard drives on my primary IDE port and I remove the one at
> the far end then my BIOS recognises the drive in the middle but then it
> stops booting and says
>
> "Primary Master Hard Disk fail".
>
> Is there some sort of terminator I can put on the end of the ribbon cable
to
> fool the BIOS that the primary master drive is there?
>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Kent_Diego" <None@Nomicrosoft.com> wrote
>
>> I often move my hard drives around between my home PCs. I use
>> 80-conductor ribbon leads. All my hard drives are configured for
>> Cable Select.
>>
>
> To use cable select with two drives, you need specially modified cable. It
> is not uncommon to damage an IDE cable with frequent use.
>
> -Kent


Aren't all 80 conductor cables effectively "cable select" with the master at
the far end and the slave in the middle?

 

[Kent_Diego]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

>
> Aren't all 80 conductor cables effectively "cable select" with the master
at
> the far end and the slave in the middle?
>

No. You can have master/slave anywhere on a normal cable. The reason master
is indicated at end is to minimize signal reflections in one drive systems.
In two drive system you should use master/slave jumpers or cut a wire in
cable between connectors.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Kent_Diego" <None@Nomicrosoft.com> wrote in message news:vKUec.6100$ab3.1571@fed1read02...
> > I often move my hard drives around between my home PCs. I use 80-conductor
> > ribbon leads. All my hard drives are configured for Cable Select.
> >
>
> To use cable select with two drives, you need specially modified cable.

Nope, just a standard 80-conductor cable.

> It is not uncommon to damage an IDE cable with frequent use.
>
> -Kent
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"John Smith" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message news:407c1c71$0$39212$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> "Kent_Diego" <None@Nomicrosoft.com> wrote
> >
> >> I often move my hard drives around between my home PCs. I use
> >> 80-conductor ribbon leads. All my hard drives are configured for
> >> Cable Select.
> >>
> >
> > To use cable select with two drives, you need specially modified cable. It
> > is not uncommon to damage an IDE cable with frequent use.
> >
> > -Kent
>
>
> Aren't all 80 conductor cables effectively "cable select" with the master at
> the far end and the slave in the middle?

They should be.

>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Kent_Diego" <None@Nomicrosoft.com> wrote in message newsLVec.6143$ab3.889@fed1read02...
> >
> > Aren't all 80 conductor cables effectively "cable select" with the master
> at
> > the far end and the slave in the middle?
> >
>
> No.

Yes.

> You can have master/slave anywhere on a normal cable.

Define 'Normal'.

> The reason master is indicated at end is to minimize signal reflections in one
> drive systems.

Nope, "master is indicated at end" because of how the cable is keyed for
Cable Select.

You can perfectly mount a slave at the end connector in a one drive per cable
situation.

> In two drive system you should use master/slave jumpers or cut a wire in
> cable between connectors.

Clueless, but then what else can you expect from someone who can't even setup
his newsclient properly.


>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"jeff findley" <jeff.findley@sdrc.com> wrote in message news:yz98ygzok6b.fsf@sgipd572.net.plm.eds.com...
> "John Smith" <someone@microsoft.com> writes:
> >
> > Aren't all 80 conductor cables effectively "cable select" with the master at
> > the far end and the slave in the middle?
>
> This would explain the original poster's problem.

Nope.

> He pulls the master off the cable and wonders why the computer won't boot.

> The answer is because there is no master.

Right, so has nothing whatsoever to do with cable type nor connector location.

>
> Jeff

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"John Smith" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message news:407bf379$0$81990$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> I often move my hard drives around between my home PCs. I use 80-conductor
> ribbon leads. All my hard drives are configured for Cable Select.
>
> When I have two hard drives on my primary IDE port and I remove the one at
> the far end then my BIOS recognises the drive in the middle but then it
> stops booting and says
>
> "Primary Master Hard Disk fail".

You probably set the drive to manual in BIOS and it now expects to see it.
Set it to auto. Bios will then skip it.

>
> Is there some sort of terminator I can put on the end of the ribbon cable to
> fool the BIOS that the primary master drive is there?

You usually call that a harddrive.

>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

No.

--
DaveW



"John Smith" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:407bf379$0$81990$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> I often move my hard drives around between my home PCs. I use
80-conductor
> ribbon leads. All my hard drives are configured for Cable Select.
>
> When I have two hard drives on my primary IDE port and I remove the one at
> the far end then my BIOS recognises the drive in the middle but then it
> stops booting and says
>
> "Primary Master Hard Disk fail".
>
> Is there some sort of terminator I can put on the end of the ribbon cable
to
> fool the BIOS that the primary master drive is there?
>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

John Smith <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:407bf379$0$81990$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

> I often move my hard drives around between my home PCs.

Why ?

> I use 80-conductor ribbon leads. All my
> hard drives are configured for Cable Select.

> When I have two hard drives on my primary IDE port and
> I remove the one at the far end then my BIOS recognises
> the drive in the middle but then it stops booting and says

> "Primary Master Hard Disk fail".

Thats what it should say, there is no primary master hard drive.

Thats not necessarily a problem tho, many systems will
boot any hard drive visible. Not a terrific idea to have the
unterminated stub on a high speed 80 conductor cable tho
because you will get reflections off the unterminated stub.

> Is there some sort of terminator I can put on the end of the ribbon
> cable to fool the BIOS that the primary master drive is there?

Nope the poll for hard drives requires a specific response
from the hard drive to the Identify command etc.

You can obviously put a hard drive there, one that wont be
used for anything except keeping the bios drive poll happy.

Makes a lot more sense to not furiously move drives around tho.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:50:07 -0700, "Kent_Diego"
<None@Nomicrosoft.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>>
>> Aren't all 80 conductor cables effectively "cable select" with the master
>at
>> the far end and the slave in the middle?
>>
>
>No. You can have master/slave anywhere on a normal cable. The reason master
>is indicated at end is to minimize signal reflections in one drive systems.
>In two drive system you should use master/slave jumpers or cut a wire in
>cable between connectors.

Have a peek between the cable and the connector bodies. You will find
that pin #28 is missing from the middle connector. Hence there is no
need for a cut in the wire, as the cable is already wired for "cable
select". In fact, if you did cut the wire, then you would have to cut
it at the end. This would make the middle connector the master, which,
in a single drive system, would result in the reflections you are
trying to avoid.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Howdy!

"John Smith" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:407bf379$0$81990$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> I often move my hard drives around between my home PCs. I use
80-conductor
> ribbon leads. All my hard drives are configured for Cable Select.
>
> When I have two hard drives on my primary IDE port and I remove the one at
> the far end then my BIOS recognises the drive in the middle but then it
> stops booting and says
>
> "Primary Master Hard Disk fail".
>
> Is there some sort of terminator I can put on the end of the ribbon cable
to
> fool the BIOS that the primary master drive is there?

Why not just move the secondary drive to the master position?

Or tell the BIOS to "Auto" all drives ...

RwP

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message news:rllp70do5g3guvtvpbmu4igf3qspfn470j@4ax.com
> On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:50:07 -0700, "Kent_Diego" <None@Nomicrosoft.com> put finger to keyboard

> and composed:

Interesting word choice in his case.

>
> > >
> > > Aren't all 80 conductor cables effectively "cable select" with the master
> > > at the far end and the slave in the middle?
> > >
> >
> > No. You can have master/slave anywhere on a normal cable. The reason master
> > is indicated at end is to minimize signal reflections in one drive systems.
> > In two drive system you should use master/slave jumpers or cut a wire in
> > cable between connectors.
>
> Have a peek between the cable and the connector bodies.

By dismantling it.

> You will find that pin #28 is missing from the middle connector. Hence
> there is no need for a cut in the wire, as the cable is already wired for
> "cable select". In fact, if you did cut the wire, then you would have to cut
> it at the end. This would make the middle connector the master, which,

> in a single drive system, would result in the reflections you are
> trying to avoid.

Nope, not if you connect it to the end connector.

>
>
> - Franc Zabkar

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Ralph Wade Phillips" <ralphp@techie.com> wrote in message news:c5kndl$2q293$3@ID-81734.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Howdy!
>
> "John Smith" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message news:407bf379$0$81990$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> > I often move my hard drives around between my home PCs. I use
> 80-conductor
> > ribbon leads. All my hard drives are configured for Cable Select.
> >
> > When I have two hard drives on my primary IDE port and I remove the one at
> > the far end then my BIOS recognises the drive in the middle but then it
> > stops booting and says
> >
> > "Primary Master Hard Disk fail".
> >
> > Is there some sort of terminator I can put on the end of the ribbon cable
> to
> > fool the BIOS that the primary master drive is there?
>
> Why not just move the secondary drive to the master position?

You don't want to do that with that manual setting.

>
> Or tell the BIOS to "Auto" all drives ...

Hey, that sounds familiar, now where did I see that first.

>
> RwP
>
>

Hey Ron, here's another one.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Howdy!

"Conor" <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ae864486bbb0bb098a314@news.claranews.com...
> In article <pLVec.6143$ab3.889@fed1read02>, None@Nomicrosoft.com
> says...
>
> > No. You can have master/slave anywhere on a normal cable.
>
> Err..not when using Cable select you can't.

When using a normal cable, you can't use Cable Select anyway ...

Or is your definition of "normal" a bit different from everyone
else's?

RwP

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Conor" <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:MPG.1ae8646ec473981298a315@news.claranews.com
> In article <c5i31i$20hcv$5@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de>, see_reply-to@myweb.nl says...
> > "Conor" <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:MPG.1ae62a65e5f241cb98a2f3@news.claranews.com...
> > > In article <407bf379$0$81990$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, someone@microsoft.com says...
> > > > I often move my hard drives around between my home PCs. I use 80-conductor
> > > > ribbon leads. All my hard drives are configured for Cable Select.
> > > >
> > > > When I have two hard drives on my primary IDE port and I remove the one
> > > > at the far end then my BIOS recognises the drive in the middle but then it
> > > > stops booting and says
> > > >
> > > > "Primary Master Hard Disk fail".
> > > >
> > > > Is there some sort of terminator I can put on the end of the ribbon
> > > > cable to fool the BIOS that the primary master drive is there?
> > > >
> > > No. This is not SCSI.
> >
> > Nor would that have anything to do with the message displayed.
> >
> You obviously know nothing about SCSI it would appear...

Funny that, coming from you who obviously has never been to the SCSI group.
That is supposing you can read, which your other post shows you incapable of.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Conor" <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:MPG.1ae864486bbb0bb098a314@news.claranews.com
> In article <pLVec.6143$ab3.889@fed1read02>, None@Nomicrosoft.com says...
>
> > No. You can have master/slave anywhere on a normal cable.
>
> Err.. not when using Cable select you can't.

Clueless, totally missed the point, in several respects.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Conor" <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ae92f43f9fa667498a345@news.claranews.com...
> In article <c5muui$3k25l$3@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de>, see_reply-
> to@myweb.nl says...
> > "Conor" <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ae864486bbb0bb098a314@news.claranews.com
> > > In article <pLVec.6143$ab3.889@fed1read02>, None@Nomicrosoft.com
says...
> > >
> > > > No. You can have master/slave anywhere on a normal cable.
> > >
> > > Err.. not when using Cable select you can't.
> >
> > Clueless, totally missed the point, in several respects.
> >
> Explain. When using Cable Select on IDE you have to have the drive on a
> specific connector in order to have it set up as master.
>
> Do you really have a clue?

Obviously you have zero understanding of the concept of cable select.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:24:52 +0200, "Folkert Rienstra"
<see_reply-to@myweb.nl> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message news:rllp70do5g3guvtvpbmu4igf3qspfn470j@4ax.com
>> On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:50:07 -0700, "Kent_Diego" <None@Nomicrosoft.com> put finger to keyboard
>
>> and composed:
>
>Interesting word choice in his case.
>
>>
>> > >
>> > > Aren't all 80 conductor cables effectively "cable select" with the master
>> > > at the far end and the slave in the middle?
>> > >
>> >
>> > No. You can have master/slave anywhere on a normal cable. The reason master
>> > is indicated at end is to minimize signal reflections in one drive systems.
>> > In two drive system you should use master/slave jumpers or cut a wire in
>> > cable between connectors.
>>
>> Have a peek between the cable and the connector bodies.
>
>By dismantling it.

Nope, just lift the cable slightly. That's what "peek" means. If I had
wanted you to dismantle it, I would have said so.

>> You will find that pin #28 is missing from the middle connector. Hence
>> there is no need for a cut in the wire, as the cable is already wired for
>> "cable select". In fact, if you did cut the wire, then you would have to cut
>> it at the end. This would make the middle connector the master, which,
>
>> in a single drive system, would result in the reflections you are
>> trying to avoid.
>
>Nope, not if you connect it to the end connector.

The point I was making was that a drive at the end of such a cable
would identify itself as the slave, if it was jumpered for CS mode.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message newsuut7052m8m57d46ha50qhvtku63ts2cgp@4ax.com
> On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:24:52 +0200, "Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> put finger to keyboard and composed:
> > "Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message news:rllp70do5g3guvtvpbmu4igf3qspfn470j@4ax.com
> > > On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:50:07 -0700, "Kent_Diego" <None@Nomicrosoft.com> put finger to keyboard
> >
> > > and composed:
> >
> > Interesting word choice in his case.
> >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Aren't all 80 conductor cables effectively "cable select" with the master
> > > > > at the far end and the slave in the middle?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > No. You can have master/slave anywhere on a normal cable. The reason master
> > > > is indicated at end is to minimize signal reflections in one drive systems.
> > > > In two drive system you should use master/slave jumpers or cut a wire in
> > > > cable between connectors.
> > >
> > > Have a peek between the cable and the connector bodies.
> >
> > By dismantling it.
>
> Nope, just lift the cable slightly. That's what "peek" means. If I had
> wanted you to dismantle it, I would have said so.
>
> > > You will find that pin #28 is missing from the middle connector. Hence
> > > there is no need for a cut in the wire, as the cable is already wired for
> > > "cable select". In fact, if you did cut the wire, then you would have to cut
> > > it at the end. This would make the middle connector the master, which,
> >
> > > in a single drive system, would result in the reflections you are trying to avoid.
> >
> > Nope, not if you connect it to the end connector.
>
> The point I was making

No, you still haven't made any point.

> was that a drive at the end of such a cable would identify itself as the slave,
> if it was jumpered for CS mode.

So, what IS your point?
All you have done is making observations that apparently would have to do with
the point you are trying to make but still haven't made it. Let's hear your point.

>
>
> - Franc Zabkar

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Howdy!

"Conor" <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ae92f786252fc0c98a346@news.claranews.com...

> Strangely on my cable the end one is the master.
>
> They made it idiot proof now. Blue goes to mobo, black is for master
> and grey is for slave.

Not quite - I've seen idiots swap them end for end.

But that's not the first cable select cable design - Compaq, back in
the bad old days, used to use (at first go!) the middle connector as master
(since it was wired to the motherboard), then they'd lift the cable select
wire (28, IIRC) so that the END connector was slave.

Didn't believe that until I saw such a cable. Hopefully, there
weren't but about a dozen or so make ... sigh.

RwP