Nvidia Tegra 3 Under Pressure After Tegra 2 Concerns

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zanny

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It doesn't help that Kal'el isn't even 28nm. It's supposed to use the old fab process we have had for 2 years. I know I'm waiting till Wayne comes out to get a tablet.
 
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"It doesn't help that Kal'el isn't even 28nm. It's supposed to use the old fab process we have had for 2 years. I know I'm waiting till Wayne comes out to get a tablet."

Really ??? mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmbulshit!!! =(
 
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dark_knight33

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UBS's who exactly? Just because *some* unknown analyst sitting behind a desk playing paper football makes a random prediction, we're supposed to sell off (investors), or hold off buying a tablet (consumers)?

He's a nobody. And nobody will remember his name 5 minutes after Nvidia's Q4 earnings report beats his "expectations". Mean time, I will reap the profits when all the sheep who sold out and lowered the value of the stock on this guy's word try to buy back in when it shoots back up. Yeah, buy high and sell low, fools.
 
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getreal

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[citation][nom]flinstone2323[/nom]But can it play Crysis ?[/citation]
If you are really so desperate to make stupid comments in hopes to gain favor, try badmouthing Apple; you will have much more success.
 
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hetneo

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[citation][nom]flinstone2323[/nom]But can it play Crysis ?[/citation]
Yes it can, it has very similar performance to Xbox360.
 
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schmich

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[citation][nom]dark_knight33[/nom]UBS's who exactly? Just because *some* unknown analyst sitting behind a desk playing paper football makes a random prediction[/citation]
Huh? What he says doesn't make sense to you? It's quite logical.
 
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de5_Roy

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can it play....
gotcha!
anyway, nvidia's discreet market gain is good news for the high end gfx line. but the real money is in the low sub $90-$100 segment and nvidia has nothing there. amd rules that part. if nvidia hadn't screwed up fermi it would have been the leader.
nvidia's higher end discreet cards are quite powerful but they're not exactly well rounded. for example all of amd's 6790+ cards are 256 bit, all the way to 6990. but nvidia has up to 384 bit cards which trade blows with amd's 256 bit cards. that's not really a good sign of efficiency.
nvidia's new 28 nm gpus seem to be released much later than amd's. i wonder why tsmc could volume produce amd's 28 nm gpus but delay(have problems with) nvidia's.
nvidia's optimus technology in notebooks is much better than amd's switchable whatever thingie. they also have much better driver support.
amd's apus and intel's ever-improving igpus are taking away one of nvidia's biggest top earners imo. android's lack of sales doesn't help anything either.
bottom line is: even if tegra 3 is better than tegra 2 nvidia will have a problem on their hands (no the top few percent high end dgpu market won't help them..much).
 
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The report is not well written, no sources, just need to fill the quote of postings?
 
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jurassic1024

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[citation][nom]de5_roy[/nom]nvidia's discreet market gain is good news for the high end gfx line. but the real money is in the low sub $90-$100 segment and nvidia has nothing there. amd rules that part. [/citation]


You wish that were true. Intel still rules the low end. 60% i believe is the figure. You remember Intel, the company that everyone knows about, including every AMD customer. Same goes for Microsoft (vs Linux and Mac)... and nVIDIA (versus AMD in the discrete category). nVIDIA desktop GPU marketshare went up 10%. nVIDIA cant live on graphics cards alone, but they are still the big dog.
 
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de5_Roy

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i guess i wasn't clear enough when i said that. i was refering to lower end discreet gfx market. amd has come out with new 6xxx series low end card while nvidia has done nothing. amd's got new 6450, 6570, 6670 and 6770(and some other oem ones) they all are slightly improved version of their 5xxx counterparts . meanwhile nvidia has gt 430, gt 440, gts 450 and gt 550ti (and may be gt520something) against those cards. except 550ti all of them are older models and have higher price but lower performance. and 550ti is priced too high for its performance.
and then there are amd's own desktop apus that have discreet class igps. nvidia has no equivalent there.
in q3, intel does lead Overall gfx market with 60.4% with amd in second 23%, nvidia last 16.1%. nvidia's share in dgfx was up more than 10%.
 
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de5_Roy

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amd's success with fusion apus is largely in the mobile(laptop, ultraportable etc) market. while the desktop apus are very capable, pc companies keep building pcs with low end dgfx. i've seen plenty of pcs with core i5 or i7 or pentium with radeon hd 64xx, 65xx or 66xx cards e.g. this one or this one. those gpus still have a market there. fusion is slowly creeping into low end dgfx market but amd is handling it in a good way. they offer asymmetric cfx with llano igp and low end dgfx, combine them and deliver better performance(for gfx capability at that price). besides, as long as amd is facing production problem and goes through the changes right now, amd's low end cards will stay a little longer.
nvidia otoh has nothing there.their loss is because they're getting out of igp market, has no newer model entry level cards, too focussed on their socs, android, tegra etc. their low end cards are old, pricey and plain bad.
intel has none of the problem of amd or nvidia. they simply put igp in their cpus and sell them.
 
fazers_on_stun

fazers_on_stun

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Once Trinity and Ivy Bridge desktop CPUs with their improved on-die GPUs come out next spring, I think a lot of the low-end discrete GPUs will see their sales dry up. Trinity's GPU is supposed to be something like 30% more performance than Llano's, and IB's is supposed to be 60% more than SB's.

However I'm personally waiting for those 28nm high-end GPUs for my next DT build :D. Not too many gamers enthusiastic about iGPUs that I know of..
 
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tdenton1138

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[citation][nom]Zingam[/nom]Tegra 2 is old shit that should have been phased out 6 months ago! And tablets over $300 - 400 are pure stupidity.[/citation]

Which is precisely why you should start your own company, develop a chip better than the Tegra 2 and then release it in a tablet for less than $300 - $400. You'll be rich. Let me know when its available.
 
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elis60660

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I wonder if Tegra 2 lower sales has anything to do with their announcement of tegra 3 before Tegra 2 was even available for purchase. I was going to get a tegra 2 tablet, and then they said tegra 3 was going to be available only a few months later, so I decided to wait.
 
ocre

ocre

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[citation][nom]de5_roy[/nom]can it play....gotcha!anyway, nvidia's discreet market gain is good news for the high end gfx line. but the real money is in the low sub $90-$100 segment and nvidia has nothing there. amd rules that part. if nvidia hadn't screwed up fermi it would have been the leader. nvidia's higher end discreet cards are quite powerful but they're not exactly well rounded. for example all of amd's 6790+ cards are 256 bit, all the way to 6990. but nvidia has up to 384 bit cards which trade blows with amd's 256 bit cards. that's not really a good sign of efficiency.nvidia's new 28 nm gpus seem to be released much later than amd's. i wonder why tsmc could volume produce amd's 28 nm gpus but delay(have problems with) nvidia's.nvidia's optimus technology in notebooks is much better than amd's switchable whatever thingie. they also have much better driver support.amd's apus and intel's ever-improving igpus are taking away one of nvidia's biggest top earners imo. android's lack of sales doesn't help anything either. bottom line is: even if tegra 3 is better than tegra 2 nvidia will have a problem on their hands (no the top few percent high end dgpu market won't help them..much).[/citation]


wth????

you really have no clue. Your posting pure BS. First off the 384bit is only related to the memory systems. Nvidia (by design) uses a wider bus than AMD. Its not a drawback at all, it actually is very useful. Fermi is great as a GPU but Nvidia makes much more money in their tesla brands. AMDs 256bit memory bus is sufficient for their design, Nvidia uses a wider memory bus for theirs. To put it in terms that are easier to understand. AMDs 256 bus is like dual channel ram while Nvidia's 384bit bus is more equivalent to intels triple channel systems. See not at all a draw back to have a wider memory bus, it can actually be very useful.

Hopefully you have a better understanding of it now so in the future you wont sound so foolish!
 
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de5_Roy

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i was using the memory bus width only for reference, hence the 'for example part'. other factors play into gfx performance as well but memory bus width is an important factor for calculating memory bandwidth - that's why i singled it out. with memory bandwidth i can compare two different cards more easily instead of worrying about shaders, clocks or rops stuff like that.
again, for reference only, here is nvidia's newest 192-bit 550ti vs amd's old 128 bit 5770 comparison:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-550-ti-gf116-radeon-hd-5770,2892-16.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-550-ti-gf116-radeon-hd-5770,2892-17.html
550 ti trades blows with the 5770 despite having higher memory bus width and costing more. both nvidia and amd have their strong and weak points.
besides, this wasn't even the point i was making, i was talking about how oems losing interest in nvidia's new gpus can hurt its business.
fermi is...well, it's something nvidia brought out, took them a second try to polish it a bit more but it still wasn't good enough. it has raw power but no finesse. but that's just my opinion.
nvidia may make more money with their tesla brand but they are still lagging in the overall gfx market behind intel and amd. their recent gain in the discreet gfx market is offset by that fact.
 
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Tegra2 has two problems- no NEON, and no reliable playback for most HD (720 or 1080) video. Both are killers. Every other new single or dual core SoC used today have both. Tegra2 was Nvidia's fix, but the chip is way late, and way over engineered (4-cores, when 2-cores are all most OEMs need at the moment, for cost and programming reasons).

Tegra2 was advanced for its time, and still makes for a great tablet, if you don't care about HD video. Tegra3 is going to be advanced for its time too, but a poor fit for the tablets most companies want to build today. By the time companies wish to use Tegra3, better choices will exist from Nvidia's competitors.

Nvidia is out of sync with the market, plain and simple. Also Nvidia, for a company with a killer rep for graphics on the desktop, delivers decidedly average GPU performance on the tablet- a clear embarrassment. Nvidia should have had a Tegra2+, with NEON and better HD decode, selling a year ago. Nvidia bet the bank on TSMC having its new 28nm process ready for 1H2011, and this was a gigantic mistake.

Nvidia's ARM competitors are not bleeding edge, like Intel and AMD are. The ARM SoC marketplace is all about cost, and the right features at the right time. Nvidia is too used to paying shill tech sites to trumpet PR rubbish that hides its shortcomings in the PC space. Who would build a tablet today using Tegra2? No-one, because the video weakness is completely unacceptable in any new tablet, regardless of cost.
 
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