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guidelines for good buying habits in pc games (issue 1 Mar..

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Anonymous
March 8, 2005 11:06:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

guidelines for good buying habits in pc games (issue 1 March 2005)

i was thinking in making this a monthly bulletin for the
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.* newsgroups hierarchy

guidelines for good buying habits in pc games

i'm open for suggestions to make this even better
i know this needs lots of work and as usual the english is bad but
i'm counting on feedback

and attention this is not for veteran pc gamers but exclusively
for new yet to become pc gamers

- pay to play
this is the most basic and sacred rule, if you want to play a game
pay for it, there are no exception only practicing this in every
pc game available

- give preference to new copies
although the 2nd hand market is a great way to find very low price
pc games, don't forget new copies are better cause everything is
brand new and sealed and never used before and in perfect condition
for you to collect and for most pc gamers the extra price payed is
totally worthy for a new version, and don't forget specialized new
budget version cost almost the same as in the 2nd hand market

- extra reward developers by buying at release
you are a true supporting pc gamer by always paying to play, and
that is so regardless of the price you pay but buying a pc game at
release has a special meaning, the meaning of you whiling to pay
full price for a pc game showing your appreciation for the developers
hard work in giving us the best possible joyful moments we get from
pc games, so if you can afford it don't wait and buy it at release
if not and you must wait for the usual price drops its also ok

- give preference to physical version copies
the market as introduced new ways to buy pc games like downloadable
but for the consumer and pc gamer, a physical version in a box and
in a cd or dvd is much better for many reasons, so don't fall in the
easy temptation of "instant gratification" cause good pleasures
in life take time and patience and knowing how to wait is a great
quality in ones personality

- retail is the best channel to buy
no doubt retail is the best to get pc games not only cause it has the
best prices but also cause it protects pc games being a packaged box
cd/dvd product and keeps the marked balanced and with competition and
nothing compares to going to your local retail store and browsing the
available titles

- lending damages everyone
lending your own pc games is damaging and hurts you and your friends
as pc gamers, so your copy is only yours and for your own personal
use, if a friend would like to play it, let him play it in your own
computer so he can try and if he likes it, please help him get his
own personal copy and never lend him yours

- p2p never for full versions
p2p has great advantages but specially to exchange real demos, patches
trailers, screenshots, cheats etc but never ever to exchange any full
versions cause that is the most damaging thing pc games can have, p2p
yes but only and exclusively for freely available material like demos
or patches cause for full version always pay to play and never share
your own copy with others

- be aware of extra cost in massive multiplayer games
games that exclusively rely on internet to pay like massive multiplayer
bring extra costs in pc games, so please be aware of that and decide if
the extra cost is worthy or if instead you should support single player
games cause they best defend pc gamers

- always be sure you are buying original
counterfeiting is giving money to the wrong people so always be sure
you are buying original and your money will go to the ones which did
the work and not outlaw counterfeiting thieves

- not every game you buy will the fantastic
don't be afraid if a pc game you buy will disappoint you cause its
natural and eventually every pc gamer will face it, like everything
in life sometimes things didn't came out the way we though so knowing
a pc game can not meet expectation is necessary, cause only who does
not buy pc games will never have a disappointment, it comes with the
territory, if you are a pc gamer you will sooner or later pay for a
game you will not like very much, so the important thing is being
proud of always paying to play and knowing that you must buy variety
even if it means some disappointing games so you can find that special
pc game which makes it all worthwhile

- protect your consumer rights
be a conscious consumer and don't jump to any new way of publishers
doing business before you have enough information about it and you
having though enough about it, the better example for this is steam
by valve which introduced a complete revolution in the way a gamer
buys, installs, plays and patches pc games, so if you say yes please
be sure you know what it means and you know what you are doing

- never send your pc game away
although collecting is a big part of pc games if you found out you
don't want to keep a particular pc game selling it in the 2nd hand
market is better than throwing it to the trash cause there might
be another pc gamer that will find joy in it and is willing to pay
for it, so don't forget if you don't want to keep a particular game
you can always sell it in the 2nd hand market but please don't keep
anything from the game including eventual cd-keys or backup copies
cause the game will no longer belong to you so you can't keep
anything from it

- punish publishers which are not pc gamer friendly
you would reward publishers cause they create pc games that give us
all lots of please but you should also punish publishers who act in
a unfriendly way toward pc gamers, publishers who act in a deliberate
damaging way to pc gamers should be punished by you and all pc gamers
and the best way to punish a publisher is not buying its products and
spreading the word about the wrong doings they practice

end of file
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 11:06:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

sayNO2piracy wrote:
> guidelines for good buying habits in pc games (issue 1 March 2005)
>
> i was thinking in making this a monthly bulletin for the
> comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.* newsgroups hierarchy

You might want to reconsider your "No archiving policy" for this kind
of FAQ-style post.

I pretty much agree with everything you wrote here.

I would add a couple more:

"Check the specs". Be aware of your processor speed and memory - it
will help you choose a game that will run well on your system.

"Play the demo". Try before you buy. Demos are there to help you decide
if you like the game, and are also the perfect way to try a new genre.
The best demos can add up to a fair amount of free gaming (eg. Uplink,
the HL1 demo).
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 11:06:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Andrew wrote:
> On 8 Mar 2005 00:55:24 -0800, "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > You might want to reconsider your "No archiving policy" for this
kind
> >of FAQ-style post.
>
> Its isn't an FAQ, it is the delusional ranting's of someone in dire
> need of psychiatric help.
> --
> Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
> Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
> please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
> Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

Thanks for telling me the difference between "FAQ" and "FAQ-style".
Related resources
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 12:44:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"sayNO2piracy" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com>
March 8, 2005 2:33:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On 8 Mar 2005 00:55:24 -0800, "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> You might want to reconsider your "No archiving policy" for this kind
>of FAQ-style post.

Its isn't an FAQ, it is the delusional ranting's of someone in dire
need of psychiatric help.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
March 8, 2005 3:23:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Chadwick" wrote

> sayNO2piracy wrote:
>> guidelines for good buying habits in pc games (issue 1 March 2005)

>> i was thinking in making this a monthly bulletin for the
>> comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.* newsgroups hierarchy

> You might want to reconsider your "No archiving policy" for this kind
> of FAQ-style post.

The style is more 'Frequent Unintelligent Questions'.
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 4:19:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"sayNO2piracy" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:D cmq21t3tndq4j5ss72vt9jr1l5mhaka11@4ax.com...
[ . . . ]
>
> - pay to play
> this is the most basic and sacred rule, if you want to play a game
> pay for it, there are no exception only practicing this in every
> pc game available

Why is it "the most basic and sacred rule"? Actually if this is a sacred
rule I must be the Pope, because not only have I paid for every game I own,
but I've paid for loads of games that I never played at all, or only
briefly.

But it wasn't always so. Many years ago I frequented BBSs with pirated games
available for download. Most of the users there traded games the way some
collectors swap trading cards. In most cases they had little or no interest
in actually playing the games, only collecting and trading them.
Occasionally one would try a game briefly and report, "Wow, this is an
awesome game!!! What kinda game is this?"

The notion that piracy costs developers millions is, in my opinion, mostly
nonsense. The pesky copy protection that we all have to put up with today
does (to a large degree) prevent copying games and passing them on, yes. But
would the recipients of such free games ever have bought them anyway, if
they couldn't get them for free? I suspect that in the vast majority of
cases they wouldn't, so there is little or no actual loss to the publisher.
I've known more businessmen running illegal copies of Microsoft Office (et
al.) than gamers actually playing pirated games to any extent.

In fact, way back when Microprose F-19 Stealth Fighter came out, I bought
the game *because* I had downloaded it from a pirate BBS and liked it (and
wanted the documentation and support, etc.). Without that "free taste" I
probably wouldn't have bought the game. Granted, that function is largely
accomplished nowadays with downloadable demos. But there too, many players
may be satisfied with the demo, have no desire for the full game and so not
pay for it anyway. What's the difference?


>
> - give preference to new copies
> although the 2nd hand market is a great way to find very low price
> pc games, don't forget new copies are better cause everything is
> brand new and sealed and never used before and in perfect condition
> for you to collect and for most pc gamers the extra price payed is
> totally worthy for a new version, and don't forget specialized new
> budget version cost almost the same as in the 2nd hand market

Sorry, but that is just nonsense. I buy probably 98% of my games brand new,
but occasionally I'm interested in a game but not enough to pay full retail,
and/or not sure I'll really find the game worthwhile, so I look for it used
on eBay. This has worked out very well the few times I've done it. If you
have *anything* you don't want or need anymore, why not sell it? And why
should someone else not want to buy it?

It looks to me like your real problem is with the whole concept of a free
market system. I'm afraid that's just something you'll have to learn to
accept, because it isn't going away in any free society.


>
> - extra reward developers by buying at release
> you are a true supporting pc gamer by always paying to play, and
> that is so regardless of the price you pay but buying a pc game at
> release has a special meaning, the meaning of you whiling to pay
> full price for a pc game showing your appreciation for the developers
> hard work in giving us the best possible joyful moments we get from
> pc games, so if you can afford it don't wait and buy it at release
> if not and you must wait for the usual price drops its also ok

How about if you just *want* to wait for the inevitable price drop? Again,
this is a matter of level of interest in the particular game.


>
> - give preference to physical version copies
> the market as introduced new ways to buy pc games like downloadable
> but for the consumer and pc gamer, a physical version in a box and
> in a cd or dvd is much better for many reasons, so don't fall in the
> easy temptation of "instant gratification" cause good pleasures
> in life take time and patience and knowing how to wait is a great
> quality in ones personality

No offense, but I keep waiting to see if you say something that makes sense,
and so far there doesn't seem to be anything. Here you directly contradict
what you wrote in just the previous paragraph (don't wait, buy it now before
the price drops), with this advice that "knowing how to wait is a great
quality in ones [sic] personality."

I haven't bought any downloadable games myself, but the idea certainly seems
good. Packaging and distribution costs are very large, (shipping, store
management, shelf space etc.), involve a lot of waste in resources and
energy, and eliminating all that could be a great benefit to
developer/publisher as well as the buyer and, for that matter, the
environment.

That's enough for me. Good luck with your project. I think you might want to
devote a little more thought to your ideas, or put them up for discussion
one at a time.
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 9:01:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

sayNO2piracy <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:D cmq21t3tndq4j5ss72vt9jr1l5mhaka11@4ax.com:

> i was thinking in making this a monthly bulletin for the
> comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.* newsgroups hierarchy

You are going to have a heck of a battle fighting the left over impressions
of your old posting personae. But looking at this with fresh unbiased eyes
I must congratulate you. It is well written and less biased than most
people in these groups could achieve.

Its not really a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) file since it isnt in the
format of questions and answers. But then many FAQ's posted to newsgroups
nowadays arent either.
But you did good. :) 

Gandalf Parker
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 11:35:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Nostrobino" <not@home.today> wrote in
news:LtGdndwiMcEocbDfRVn-ig@comcast.com:

> Sorry, but that is just nonsense. I buy probably 98% of my games brand
> new, but occasionally I'm interested in a game but not enough to pay
> full retail, and/or not sure I'll really find the game worthwhile, so
> I look for it used on eBay. This has worked out very well the few
> times I've done it. If you have *anything* you don't want or need
> anymore, why not sell it? And why should someone else not want to buy
> it?

And don't forget the gamer who waits to upgrade his/her box. Just because I
only upgraded my POS to something recent, does that mean I am not allowed
to play all those games that are in the discount bin?

--
Marcel
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 3:19:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Suddenly, sayNO2piracy sprang forth and uttered these pithy words:
> - give preference to physical version copies
> the market as introduced new ways to buy pc games like downloadable
> but for the consumer and pc gamer, a physical version in a box and
> in a cd or dvd is much better for many reasons, so don't fall in the
> easy temptation of "instant gratification" cause good pleasures
> in life take time and patience and knowing how to wait is a great
> quality in ones personality
>
> - retail is the best channel to buy
> no doubt retail is the best to get pc games not only cause it has the
> best prices but also cause it protects pc games being a packaged box
> cd/dvd product and keeps the marked balanced and with competition and
> nothing compares to going to your local retail store and browsing the
> available titles


I agree with most of your other points but these are ridiculous. What
are these "many reasons" a cd or dvd is better?

There are 3 minor benefits I can see:

1) You get a paper manual. Sometimes. Whoopty do.
2) You don't have to burn a CD yourself. OK, 2 minutes saved.
3) There is a physical "proof" of purchase.

On the other hand, the established retail distribution has many
downsides. It discourages diversity of games because a) it is very
expensive to get setup for retail and/or buy space b) the distribution
and manufacture adds a lot of cost over the actual cost of the game c)
it generates wastefully large boxes d) there is only space on shop
shelves for limited numbers of games.

All this means small, innovative new companies have no chance of getting
their game into retail, and most games are minor revamps of existing
genres and titles.

Hence online selling like http://totalgaming.stardock.com/ are a great
addition and complement to retail games.

--
aaronl at consultant dot com
For every expert, there is an equal and
opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 4:59:47 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

sayNO2piracy <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:D cmq21t3tndq4j5ss72vt9jr1l5mhaka11@4ax.com:

> guidelines for good buying habits in pc games (issue 1 March 2005)
>
> i was thinking in making this a monthly bulletin for the
> comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.* newsgroups hierarchy
>
> guidelines for good buying habits in pc games
>
> i'm open for suggestions to make this even better
> i know this needs lots of work and as usual the english is bad but
> i'm counting on feedback
>
> and attention this is not for veteran pc gamers but exclusively
> for new yet to become pc gamers
>
> - pay to play
> this is the most basic and sacred rule, if you want to play a game
> pay for it, there are no exception only practicing this in every
> pc game available
I would change it to "respect author's rights". If the game if released as
freeware, it's author's choice, you don't need to pay. If you like the
game, follow author's suggestions for donations (some authors ask for
donations to themselves, some to one or another charity). If the game is
released commercially, then pay for each license you use.

> - extra reward developers by buying at release
> you are a true supporting pc gamer by always paying to play, and
> that is so regardless of the price you pay but buying a pc game at
> release has a special meaning, the meaning of you whiling to pay
> full price for a pc game showing your appreciation for the developers
> hard work in giving us the best possible joyful moments we get from
> pc games, so if you can afford it don't wait and buy it at release
> if not and you must wait for the usual price drops its also ok
It looks that your point is more about buying at full price rather than
buying at release. Also you may want to add that if one wants to reward
developer he should choose to buy from developer directly (if available),
rather than from the middleman

> - retail is the best channel to buy
> no doubt retail is the best to get pc games not only cause it has the
> best prices but also cause it protects pc games being a packaged box
> cd/dvd product and keeps the marked balanced and with competition and
> nothing compares to going to your local retail store and browsing the
> available titles
The only problem is that retail doesn't bother carrying many best titles :( 
At least not in North America. Therefore, this point is kind of pointless
:)  Usually one have to buy wherever he can find the game.

> - be aware of extra cost in massive multiplayer games
> games that exclusively rely on internet to pay like massive multiplayer
> bring extra costs in pc games, so please be aware of that and decide if
> the extra cost is worthy or if instead you should support single player
> games cause they best defend pc gamers
probably you should replace "cause they best defend pc gamers". You don't
give any reasons and it's probably wrong anyway. At least until there's a
major leap in AI. Something like "... if you liked them more" would sound
better

> - protect your consumer rights
> be a conscious consumer and don't jump to any new way of publishers
> doing business before you have enough information about it and you
> having though enough about it, the better example for this is steam
> by valve which introduced a complete revolution in the way a gamer
> buys, installs, plays and patches pc games, so if you say yes please
> be sure you know what it means and you know what you are doing
Important point to add is to always return the game if it fails to meet
promises given by developer/publisher (but, not your expectations)

Alex.
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 6:00:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:28:39 GMT, "OldDog" <OldDog@city.pound> wrote:

>Also, you need an intro to your guide that provides a purpose. Such as,
>"This guide is intended to provide information to pc gamers that will help
>them....blah....blah...blah." Plus, you'll need to define a few terms.
>Such as what is a pc gamer?

His "guide" is nothing more than advocacy for corporate greed with
such rules as "always buy brand new games immediately (which would be
at their higest price) rather than bargain bin, budget or second hand
games" and "buy lots of games, even ones you don't like".

--
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 6:10:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 08:06:23 +0000, sayNO2piracy
<sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>- give preference to new copies
>although the 2nd hand market is a great way to find very low price
>pc games, don't forget new copies are better cause everything is
>brand new and sealed and never used before and in perfect condition
>for you to collect

I don't "collect" games. I play them.
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 7:52:08 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

sayNO2piracy wrote:
> you should do both! play and collect!
> cause collecting pc games is great!
> collecting maximizes your investment is pc games and that is always
> very good
> haven't you ever though about showing your grandchildren your own
> pc game collection?

I'm not sure that collecting PC games could be considered an
investment. They depreciate very rapidly. Just look at the games in the
bargain bin to see what they're worth and how old they are. And these
are new games, not 2nd hand.

But then again, people collect records they daren't play for fear of
scratching them, and wine that will become worthless as soon as you
open the bottle, so maybe it isn't so pointless.
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 9:13:31 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Bateau wrote:
> NO ONE WANTS YOU TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS OR ANY OTHER NEWSGROUP.

Speak for yourself.
I'd rather have difool than tossers like you deciding who is and isn't
welcome here. It's an unmoderated NG. If that doesn't agree with you,
then go find a moderated forum somewhere.
March 9, 2005 9:39:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 02:54:05 GMT, Johnny Bravo
<baawa_knight@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Well, not bought, after all he is using the free version of agent.

Oops, my bad!

>I guess he feels that his rules apply to people who work hard to
>produce PC games but don't apply to people who work hard to produce PC
>applications.

Well said.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 10:26:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

sayNO2piracy wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Aaron Lawrence wrote:
>
> > I agree with most of your other points but these are ridiculous.
What
> > are these "many reasons" a cd or dvd is better?
>
> for me pc games are packaged physical products, and they will always
be
>
> i feel an extra pleasure holding a pc game box and i like to collect
> it and appreciate a good design an appealing cover and everything
which
> is associated with a pc game box
>
> these are some of the reason for me why packaged retail box are best:
> 1 - the pure pleasure of enjoying a packaged pc game

Pure opinion. Personally, I get pleasure from playing games with
quality gameplay, and not so much from shiny packages.

> 2 - less expensive cause you don't have any extra costs of needing a
> cd/dvd recorder drive or cd/dvd blank media disks or others

Unless of course like many, you already have a cd/dvd recorder for
other legitamite reasons. Ok, sure, you'd have to pay an extra 20
cents or so for the media, but I thought we were trying to support the
game developers. I have no objections to forking over an extra 20
cents so that the developers of a game I really enjoy get a bigger
slice of the cost of the game. (Not to mention my getting the game
more quickly.)

> 3 - being able to collect and having value as a collectable item

The idea of computer games as collectibles frankly amuses me.

> 4 - a more reliable and durable product

Could you provide some sort of evidence that retail packaged games are
more reliable or durable than downloaded ones? I'm at a loss to figure
out why that might be.

> 5 - having the capability of being self contained which means not
> needing anything else for you to use it

Unless you already have everything else you might need (internet
connection and cd burner) for ancillary reasons.

> 6 - the one you told us, having a printed manual

That's the one and only good reason I can think of. Of course, manuals
these days tend to be more than a little poor. I'll freely admit that
picking up the box and feeling the weight of a nice, heavy and proper
manual is always a big plus in my deciding whether or not to buy a
game. (And I'll note here that I do only buy my games)

> 7 - another on you told us, having a physical proof of purchase

And this matters why precisely? Do you frequently have officers of the
law bursting into your house and demanding physical proofs of your
gaming purchases?

> 8 - yet another from you, not having to waste time with doing your
> own much less reliable and expensive home-made fragile backup copy

Again, would you care to provide some evidence that home-made backup
copies are "less reliable", "fragile", or "expensive"?

> 9 - the product including copy protection so you don't need to rely
> on third parties for it or other external procedures

I'm afraid I just don't really understand this one. Are you referring
to the cd-based copy protection schemes like the sort that not
infrequently require people to do things like download no-cd cracks or
use daemon tools just to get their legally purchased copies to run on
their machines at all?

> 10 - being able to sell it in the 2nd hand market if you found out
> you don't want to keep in your collection

I suppose, although second hand games tend to go for little enough that
I don't generally find it worth the trouble to sell them second hand.
(Although I admit that I tend to keep my games for a year or two so I
can replay them later if I like.)

> 11 - having gift quality, so you can give to someone on his birthday

I suppose it depends on who you're giving it to. My brother's the only
person I know who I'd consider giving a computer game to as a birthday
present, and he'd be perfectly happy with a downloadable game as a
gift.

> 12 - being a product that can be sold by lots of ways and means and
> places, so it will promote competition and fairness in the market

That doesn't make any sense at all. Retail is not the cheaper option
for developers. Less expensive publishing allows more players in the
development game, which means more competition and fairness.

> 13 - very easy buying, you only need some cash not many and any kind
> of means of transportation to go to your local retail store

True, but then, if you already have broadband like I and pretty much
all my friends and relations do, downloadable games are very easy
buying too. All you need is a credit/debit card and your already
existing broadband connection.

> 14 - not needing internet connection cause its an extra cost and an
> extra layer of complexity and not every pc gamer has it

I'd be very, very, very surprised if the vast majority of people who
would describe themselves as "pc gamers" did NOT have an internet
connection. Yes, it's an added cost, but I know that I, for example,
would have it regardless of how I'm going to purchase my games.

> 15 - defending pc games being an anonymous activity so your privacy
> is totally protected

Care to explain to me how sending my credit card over a secure internet
connection is any more dangerous to my privacy than having my credit
card swiped at my local gaming store?

> there are many more but i guess this will be enough...

They looked like a bunch of you-know-what to me. Sorry.

Ernest
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 11:32:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Kevin O'Donovan wrote:
> Hey, have you looked at half life 2 and steam yet? It seems that the
steam
> system actively makes it difficult to sell a game second hand, thus
> encouraging people to buy new evey time. Give it a try, it sounds
like you'd
> love it!!!!


*Chadwick runs for cover*
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 2:24:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On 8 Mar 2005, "Chadwick" wrote:

> You might want to reconsider your "No archiving policy" for this kind
> of FAQ-style post.

agree, you're right

> I pretty much agree with everything you wrote here.

very glad to hear that

> I would add a couple more:
>
> "Check the specs". Be aware of your processor speed and memory - it
> will help you choose a game that will run well on your system.

agree, its missing, i'll add it

> "Play the demo". Try before you buy. Demos are there to help you decide
> if you like the game, and are also the perfect way to try a new genre.
> The best demos can add up to a fair amount of free gaming (eg. Uplink,
> the HL1 demo).

agree with playing the demo, so you can try before you buy
as for demos giving a fair amount of free gaming, i'll not include it,
for one reason, my document is to promote the buying of pc games, cause
only buying pc games will we have better and better titles, so anything
about free gaming i not give any kind of attention cause the main point
is "pay to play", "buy pc games to support the hobby you like"

thank you very much for the feedback!
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 2:24:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"sayNO2piracy" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:s7at211ifh0ssfjtiv5tggobo4isldbafe@4ax.com...
> agree with playing the demo, so you can try before you buy
> as for demos giving a fair amount of free gaming, i'll not include it,
> for one reason, my document is to promote the buying of pc games, cause
> only buying pc games will we have better and better titles, so anything
> about free gaming i not give any kind of attention cause the main point
> is "pay to play", "buy pc games to support the hobby you like"
>

Your document isn't to promote pc games, it is a sly way of slagging vavle.
You are very transparent.
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 2:25:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005, Jeff Holinski wrote:

<snip the usual lies from holinsky>

you always attack me with lies and i will always fight back with the
complete truth!
i buy pc games!
i like buying pc games!
i enjoy giving money to developers and publisher and distributors and
retail stores for pc games!
buying pc games is as important as playing pc games!
no matter what kind of pc game i never regret the money i spent!
i always PAY to PLAY pc games!
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 2:25:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"sayNO2piracy" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ahat21l7d2ag66cn41db47bpk5agjlh935@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 08 Mar 2005, Jeff Holinski wrote:
>
> <snip the usual lies from holinsky>
>
> you always attack me with lies and i will always fight back with the
> complete truth!
> i buy pc games!
> i like buying pc games!
> i enjoy giving money to developers and publisher and distributors and
> retail stores for pc games!
> buying pc games is as important as playing pc games!
> no matter what kind of pc game i never regret the money i spent!
> i always PAY to PLAY pc games!
>\

Since developer do the actual work of making the games you enjoy, why not
support methods where the developers achieve the maximum dollars for their
work.

OH THAT RIGHT, you are not interested in that, you are only interested in
attacking Valve.
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 2:25:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Aaron Lawrence wrote:

> I agree with most of your other points but these are ridiculous. What
> are these "many reasons" a cd or dvd is better?

for me pc games are packaged physical products, and they will always be

i feel an extra pleasure holding a pc game box and i like to collect
it and appreciate a good design an appealing cover and everything which
is associated with a pc game box

these are some of the reason for me why packaged retail box are best:
1 - the pure pleasure of enjoying a packaged pc game
2 - less expensive cause you don't have any extra costs of needing a
cd/dvd recorder drive or cd/dvd blank media disks or others
3 - being able to collect and having value as a collectable item
4 - a more reliable and durable product
5 - having the capability of being self contained which means not
needing anything else for you to use it
6 - the one you told us, having a printed manual
7 - another on you told us, having a physical proof of purchase
8 - yet another from you, not having to waste time with doing your
own much less reliable and expensive home-made fragile backup copy
9 - the product including copy protection so you don't need to rely
on third parties for it or other external procedures
10 - being able to sell it in the 2nd hand market if you found out
you don't want to keep in your collection
11 - having gift quality, so you can give to someone on his birthday
12 - being a product that can be sold by lots of ways and means and
places, so it will promote competition and fairness in the market
13 - very easy buying, you only need some cash not many and any kind
of means of transportation to go to your local retail store
14 - not needing internet connection cause its an extra cost and an
extra layer of complexity and not every pc gamer has it
15 - defending pc games being an anonymous activity so your privacy
is totally protected

there are many more but i guess this will be enough...

> On the other hand, the established retail distribution has many
> downsides. It discourages diversity of games because a) it is very
> expensive to get setup for retail and/or buy space b) the distribution

that's why we need first to strengthen pc games so they will always have
retail shelve space and second support the efforts of independent game
publishers which are trying to start up in the market

> and manufacture adds a lot of cost over the actual cost of the game c)

manufacturing cost is very well known as the less of the actual price
i remembering seeing somewhere, manufacturing a cd costs less than 50
cents

> it generates wastefully large boxes d) there is only space on shop
> shelves for limited numbers of games.

waste is a problem of our current modern society
so don't blame pc games for it cause its completely ridiculous and a
big hypocrisy
pc games don't create any extra waste
you as a citizen create more waste in a single hour than a simple pc
games, so waste is not an issue
and besides you can always re-sell your pc game in the 2nd hand market
if that is what worries you, the waste, and this way another pc gamer
will have the game without any waste created or manufacturing needed

> All this means small, innovative new companies have no chance of getting
> their game into retail, and most games are minor revamps of existing
> genres and titles.

like i told you, the way to go is small pc game developers getting together
and creating independent publishers
individually they are small but together they can become powerful

> Hence online selling like http://totalgaming.stardock.com/ are a great
> addition and complement to retail games.

for me and this is my opinion, retail physical packaged box pc games are
the best for the pc game consumer, but i understand for developers its
not the same, but you must realize we are partners so developers can't
make changes only to benefit themselves and damage us pc gamers
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 2:25:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005, David Johnston wrote:

> I don't "collect" games. I play them.

you should do both! play and collect!
cause collecting pc games is great!
collecting maximizes your investment is pc games and that is always
very good
haven't you ever though about showing your grandchildren your own
pc game collection?
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 2:25:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"sayNO2piracy" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:i5nt21p99fiqslbpeuoev8710h6njbcmta@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 09 Mar 2005, David Johnston wrote:
>
>> I don't "collect" games. I play them.
>
> you should do both! play and collect!
> cause collecting pc games is great!
> collecting maximizes your investment is pc games and that is always
> very good
> haven't you ever though about showing your grandchildren your own
> pc game collection?
>

OK, this has got to be one of the funniest things I have ever seen.

Here is a guy setting 'rules' that tell ever PC gamer to only buy NEW GAMES,
then he claims that making them collection items maximizes your investment.

So here is a question genius.

How does buying a PC game new, putting it away and never selling it ,
maximize your investment.

If I buy a new game, play it , then sell it, I not only got enjoyment out of
the game but I got some money back when I sold it.

REMEMBER, if everyone listens to you, NO ONE will buy my collected items
because they aren't new.
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 2:25:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005, Johnny Bravo wrote:

the only corporate greed i know about in pc games is called valve cause
they put money above costumers

buying brand new games at release
buying always new
always keeping and collection pc games
and buying many games even knowing we will not fully enjoy all
that is not what you call corporate greed but instead what we
call... being a "pc gamer" which is something you are not
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 2:25:25 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005, alexti wrote:

> I would change it to "respect author's rights". If the game if released as
> freeware, it's author's choice, you don't need to pay. If you like the

probably its related with my personal experience but for me pc games
are professional done products which you need to pay to play so i
don't know about open source or other free ways to get pc games

pc games are made by very skillful professionals working full time and
you must reward them, paying to play

> developer he should choose to buy from developer directly (if available),
> rather than from the middleman

people don't give proper appreciation for the retail channel and the work
it does to pc games

i live far away from the developers offices and i feel needing a credit
card to pay online for pc games being mailed order is not reasonable, so
i feel the best channel to buy pc games is and will always be the retail
market

i know buying directly from the developer should be the best but the
logistics are too damn difficult and expensive, so we must go to the
second best and that one is called "retail"

> The only problem is that retail doesn't bother carrying many best titles :( 
> At least not in North America. Therefore, this point is kind of pointless
> :)  Usually one have to buy wherever he can find the game.

if that is a problem the answer is retail stores being more specialized
and small developers getting together to create independent publishers

> probably you should replace "cause they best defend pc gamers". You don't
> give any reasons and it's probably wrong anyway. At least until there's a
> major leap in AI. Something like "... if you liked them more" would sound
> better

i admit i'm somehow biased against mmo cause they will bring costs up
in pc games, and i'm totally against it cause we already pay enough

> Important point to add is to always return the game if it fails to meet
> promises given by developer/publisher (but, not your expectations)

i disagree
returns should be only acceptable if package is damaged or defective
or incompatibilities with your machine makes it not run or run with
problems
any pc gamer must face that each time he buys a pc game it can not be
what he was expecting
disappointment in life happens! people must learn how to live with
disappointment so they can control frustration

this society of "instant gratification" and no "disappointment" is
very spoiling specially for the young generation
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 2:25:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005, Gandalf Parker wrote:

> But you did good. :) 

thank you cause its important when someone recognizes a truthful and
honest effort to defend what he most likes, which is what i always did
and do
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 2:25:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, "Nostrobino" wrote:

> Why is it "the most basic and sacred rule"? Actually if this is a sacred
> rule I must be the Pope, because not only have I paid for every game I own,

congratulations you being a true and supporting pc gamer!

<snip dirty past of this now "clean" pc gamer>

most every one had a dark past full of mistakes, no need to look at
that but what matters in the present and the future

> nonsense. The pesky copy protection that we all have to put up with today
> does (to a large degree) prevent copying games and passing them on, yes. But

that doesn't matter
the issue is paying to play with no "but" of "if"
PAY to PLAY like you do!
if you do it why won't the rest of pc gamers?
are we asking too much? NO! we are only asking what is fair!
pay to play
whether the publishers looses or don't is not the point... the point
is once again: pay to play!

and btw cd copy protection is there only cause of pirates!
its not cause of you and me that we have to deal with cd copy protection!
is cause of thieves! criminals! pirates!
so blame them for cd copy protection and never the publishers!

<snip again dirty past>

no need to go again to your dark past when you are now fully regenerated
think about the present and future and forget about your dirty past

> have *anything* you don't want or need anymore, why not sell it? And why
> should someone else not want to buy it?

i only told that new is better, but 2nd hand is fine
if you want to buy 2nd hand go ahead, i only defended new is better

i like pc games having the 2nd hand market to buy and sell but i always
prefer brand new, sealed, intact, perfect conditions pc game copies and
i only sell my pc games when i have more than one copy of the same game
cause i collect pc games and i want to keep them for eternity

> It looks to me like your real problem is with the whole concept of a free
> market system. I'm afraid that's just something you'll have to learn to

isn't the retail market the most free?
i defend the retail market so i think i also defend a free society

> How about if you just *want* to wait for the inevitable price drop? Again,
> this is a matter of level of interest in the particular game.

didn't i end up saying if you want to wait its also ok?

> and so far there doesn't seem to be anything. Here you directly contradict
> what you wrote in just the previous paragraph (don't wait, buy it now before

they are totally different
in one the wait is for about 1, 2 or 3 days or probably one week the max
this is for downloading versus buying retail packaged box

the other wait, the one for the price drop is a 3 months or even 1 year
wait so it's a little different don't you think?

do you find waiting 1 day or waiting 1 year the same?

> I haven't bought any downloadable games myself, but the idea certainly seems
> good. Packaging and distribution costs are very large, (shipping, store

retail has the best prices!
you will not pay less for download games but more!
you will pay extra costs!
you will pay internet connection costs, you will pay probably monthly
fees and other hidden costs
retail is the cheapest channel to buy pc games!

> devote a little more thought to your ideas, or put them up for discussion
> one at a time.

didn't i ask for feedback?
i open to improve this document but only with credible and valid ideas
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 5:34:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

sayNO2piracy <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:ucet21hk13orobnr3lmbjg2akle97s78a2@4ax.com:

> On Tue, 08 Mar 2005, Gandalf Parker wrote:
>
>> But you did good. :) 
>
> thank you cause its important when someone recognizes a truthful and
> honest effort to defend what he most likes, which is what i always did
> and do

I always recognized your honest effort. I only tried to tighten up the
choice of wording to something people could read without waving it off as
extremist opinion.

It can be gratifying to preach, and hear the crowd shout "AMEN!"
It can also be gratifying to be subtle and have them develop their own
feverish pitch as they yell at you for understating the case. I think you
have the makings of a great instigator in real life. Possibly even climbing
thru the "game levels" to petitioner, or even up to lobbiest. (the top is
CEO of a supposedly non-profit organization but Im not sure on that for
you)

Gandalf Parker
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 5:34:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Gandalf Parker" <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote in message
news:Xns9614431DB93CBgandalfparker@208.201.224.154...
> sayNO2piracy <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:ucet21hk13orobnr3lmbjg2akle97s78a2@4ax.com:
>
>> On Tue, 08 Mar 2005, Gandalf Parker wrote:
>>
>>> But you did good. :) 
>>
>> thank you cause its important when someone recognizes a truthful and
>> honest effort to defend what he most likes, which is what i always did
>> and do
>
> I always recognized your honest effort. I only tried to tighten up the
> choice of wording to something people could read without waving it off as
> extremist opinion.
>
> Gandalf Parker

Are you serious.

Do you REALLY believe this is an honest effort. There is nothing whatsoever
honest about what he is doing.

His agenda is one of "ANTI VALVE", this 'honest effort' as you called it is
a smoke screen.
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 6:42:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

sayNO2piracy wrote:

> haven't you ever though about showing your grandchildren your own
> pc game collection?

Nevermind, it's too easy.
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 6:45:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Yet when asked to name one game you've played this year you clam up.
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 7:20:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

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"sayNO2piracy" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4vmt2195771u7a2mah3urml5gfugpn8v00@4ax.com...
> 2nd hand market is good for pc games but buying a "new" copy is better
>
Hey, have you looked at half life 2 and steam yet? It seems that the steam
system actively makes it difficult to sell a game second hand, thus
encouraging people to buy new evey time. Give it a try, it sounds like you'd
love it!!!!
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Anonymous
March 9, 2005 7:36:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"SayNO2Credit Cards" <chadwick110@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110377611.925143.29220@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Bateau wrote:
> > NO ONE WANTS YOU TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS OR ANY OTHER NEWSGROUP.
>
> Speak for yourself.
> I'd rather have difool than tossers like you deciding who is and isn't
> welcome here. It's an unmoderated NG. If that doesn't agree with you,
> then go find a moderated forum somewhere.
>

seconded. free speech for all

dr ratt
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 10:33:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"dr ratt" <spamsum1else@zen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:422f25f6$0$8747$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
>
> "SayNO2Credit Cards" <chadwick110@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1110377611.925143.29220@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Bateau wrote:
>> > NO ONE WANTS YOU TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS OR ANY OTHER NEWSGROUP.
>>
>> Speak for yourself.
>> I'd rather have difool than tossers like you deciding who is and isn't
>> welcome here. It's an unmoderated NG. If that doesn't agree with you,
>> then go find a moderated forum somewhere.
>>
>
> seconded. free speech for all
>
> dr ratt
>
>

I'd rather have baty and his giant skelington back O_o
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 12:45:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

NO ONE WANTS YOU TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS OR ANY OTHER NEWSGROUP.

sayNO2piracy <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>guidelines for good buying habits in pc games (issue 1 March 2005)
>
>i was thinking in making this a monthly bulletin for the
>comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.* newsgroups hierarchy
>
>guidelines for good buying habits in pc games
>
>i'm open for suggestions to make this even better
>i know this needs lots of work and as usual the english is bad but
>i'm counting on feedback
>
>and attention this is not for veteran pc gamers but exclusively
>for new yet to become pc gamers
>
>- pay to play
>this is the most basic and sacred rule, if you want to play a game
>pay for it, there are no exception only practicing this in every
>pc game available
>
>- give preference to new copies
>although the 2nd hand market is a great way to find very low price
>pc games, don't forget new copies are better cause everything is
>brand new and sealed and never used before and in perfect condition
>for you to collect and for most pc gamers the extra price payed is
>totally worthy for a new version, and don't forget specialized new
>budget version cost almost the same as in the 2nd hand market
>
>- extra reward developers by buying at release
>you are a true supporting pc gamer by always paying to play, and
>that is so regardless of the price you pay but buying a pc game at
>release has a special meaning, the meaning of you whiling to pay
>full price for a pc game showing your appreciation for the developers
>hard work in giving us the best possible joyful moments we get from
>pc games, so if you can afford it don't wait and buy it at release
>if not and you must wait for the usual price drops its also ok
>
>- give preference to physical version copies
>the market as introduced new ways to buy pc games like downloadable
>but for the consumer and pc gamer, a physical version in a box and
>in a cd or dvd is much better for many reasons, so don't fall in the
>easy temptation of "instant gratification" cause good pleasures
>in life take time and patience and knowing how to wait is a great
>quality in ones personality
>
>- retail is the best channel to buy
>no doubt retail is the best to get pc games not only cause it has the
>best prices but also cause it protects pc games being a packaged box
>cd/dvd product and keeps the marked balanced and with competition and
>nothing compares to going to your local retail store and browsing the
>available titles
>
>- lending damages everyone
>lending your own pc games is damaging and hurts you and your friends
>as pc gamers, so your copy is only yours and for your own personal
>use, if a friend would like to play it, let him play it in your own
>computer so he can try and if he likes it, please help him get his
>own personal copy and never lend him yours
>
>- p2p never for full versions
>p2p has great advantages but specially to exchange real demos, patches
>trailers, screenshots, cheats etc but never ever to exchange any full
>versions cause that is the most damaging thing pc games can have, p2p
>yes but only and exclusively for freely available material like demos
>or patches cause for full version always pay to play and never share
>your own copy with others
>
>- be aware of extra cost in massive multiplayer games
>games that exclusively rely on internet to pay like massive multiplayer
>bring extra costs in pc games, so please be aware of that and decide if
>the extra cost is worthy or if instead you should support single player
>games cause they best defend pc gamers
>
>- always be sure you are buying original
>counterfeiting is giving money to the wrong people so always be sure
>you are buying original and your money will go to the ones which did
>the work and not outlaw counterfeiting thieves
>
>- not every game you buy will the fantastic
>don't be afraid if a pc game you buy will disappoint you cause its
>natural and eventually every pc gamer will face it, like everything
>in life sometimes things didn't came out the way we though so knowing
>a pc game can not meet expectation is necessary, cause only who does
>not buy pc games will never have a disappointment, it comes with the
>territory, if you are a pc gamer you will sooner or later pay for a
>game you will not like very much, so the important thing is being
>proud of always paying to play and knowing that you must buy variety
>even if it means some disappointing games so you can find that special
>pc game which makes it all worthwhile
>
>- protect your consumer rights
>be a conscious consumer and don't jump to any new way of publishers
>doing business before you have enough information about it and you
>having though enough about it, the better example for this is steam
>by valve which introduced a complete revolution in the way a gamer
>buys, installs, plays and patches pc games, so if you say yes please
>be sure you know what it means and you know what you are doing
>
>- never send your pc game away
>although collecting is a big part of pc games if you found out you
>don't want to keep a particular pc game selling it in the 2nd hand
>market is better than throwing it to the trash cause there might
>be another pc gamer that will find joy in it and is willing to pay
>for it, so don't forget if you don't want to keep a particular game
>you can always sell it in the 2nd hand market but please don't keep
>anything from the game including eventual cd-keys or backup copies
>cause the game will no longer belong to you so you can't keep
>anything from it
>
>- punish publishers which are not pc gamer friendly
>you would reward publishers cause they create pc games that give us
>all lots of please but you should also punish publishers who act in
>a unfriendly way toward pc gamers, publishers who act in a deliberate
>damaging way to pc gamers should be punished by you and all pc gamers
>and the best way to punish a publisher is not buying its products and
>spreading the word about the wrong doings they practice
>
>end of file
>
March 10, 2005 12:45:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Bateau wrote:
> NO ONE WANTS YOU TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS OR ANY OTHER NEWSGROUP.
>

If you dont want read it then killfile him. I have him KF'd but
wouldn't presume to know what everyone else wants.

--
I mean, you've been around a bit, you know, like, you've, uh... You've
'done it'...
What do you mean?
Well, I mean like,... you've SLEPT, with a lady...
Yes...
What's it like?
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 3:17:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

sayNO2piracy wrote:
>
> 8 - yet another from you, not having to waste time with doing your
> own much less reliable and expensive home-made fragile backup copy

How is a backup copy less reliable? On the contrary, if you
are able to back up your game, you are less likely to
have the disk for your only copy break or get scratched.
How long do you think game CD's last? Especially if you
have a kid or a fumble-fingered person in the house who is
apt to drop the CD or close the door of the CD drive on
it before it is properly seated. And then there are game
CD's that are unbalanced and make a racket when you put
them in your CD drive. If you can copy the game onto
a CDR, you can make a non-noisy CD for your game.

In another 20 years, your game will probably be
unplayable unless you either have an antique computer
or are able to transfer your game to another medium anyway.
How many people still have 5 1/4" floppy drives in
their computers.

> 9 - the product including copy protection so you don't need to rely
> on third parties for it or other external procedures

So-called copy protection does the buyer no good at all.
On the contrary, it can prevent legitimate buyers from
being able to play the games they buy at all. There are
hardware incompatibilities with certain types of
so-called copy protection and certain models of
new, name brand CD and DVD drives - no way around the
problem except to buy a new drive and cross your
fingers that it's a compatible model. And even supposedly
compatible models may fail the copy check if their read
speed is slightly off from the expected standard.
And then there are sneaky types of copy protection
that don't make it obvious when your game has failed
a CD check, but which make the game unstable or cause
scripting problems that prevent events from triggering.
Although these are meant to discourage pirate versions,
the scripting problems can also occur with legitimately
bought and paid for games. So now not only can you have
game bugs, you can have copy protection-induced bugs.
I find this intolerable.
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 3:17:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Sorry for the top post,

Good Post MRLG:

I think it is now my duty :)  to point out that sayNO2piracy has a not so
veiled agenda to slag Valve at every turn, when he was called difool , he
tried to dissuade people from using Steam. He figures that trying this
little guide will make it seem like he is more legitimate.


For me, it didn't work.

"mrlg" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:NmMXd.8516$603.3712@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> sayNO2piracy wrote:
> >
> > 8 - yet another from you, not having to waste time with doing your
> > own much less reliable and expensive home-made fragile backup copy
>
> How is a backup copy less reliable? On the contrary, if you
> are able to back up your game, you are less likely to
> have the disk for your only copy break or get scratched.
> How long do you think game CD's last? Especially if you
> have a kid or a fumble-fingered person in the house who is
> apt to drop the CD or close the door of the CD drive on
> it before it is properly seated. And then there are game
> CD's that are unbalanced and make a racket when you put
> them in your CD drive. If you can copy the game onto
> a CDR, you can make a non-noisy CD for your game.
>
> In another 20 years, your game will probably be
> unplayable unless you either have an antique computer
> or are able to transfer your game to another medium anyway.
> How many people still have 5 1/4" floppy drives in
> their computers.
>
> > 9 - the product including copy protection so you don't need to rely
> > on third parties for it or other external procedures
>
> So-called copy protection does the buyer no good at all.
> On the contrary, it can prevent legitimate buyers from
> being able to play the games they buy at all. There are
> hardware incompatibilities with certain types of
> so-called copy protection and certain models of
> new, name brand CD and DVD drives - no way around the
> problem except to buy a new drive and cross your
> fingers that it's a compatible model. And even supposedly
> compatible models may fail the copy check if their read
> speed is slightly off from the expected standard.
> And then there are sneaky types of copy protection
> that don't make it obvious when your game has failed
> a CD check, but which make the game unstable or cause
> scripting problems that prevent events from triggering.
> Although these are meant to discourage pirate versions,
> the scripting problems can also occur with legitimately
> bought and paid for games. So now not only can you have
> game bugs, you can have copy protection-induced bugs.
> I find this intolerable.
March 10, 2005 4:07:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

OldDog wrote:

>>
>>like i told previously for me a true pc gamer is the one that never
>>regrets putting money in pc games regardless if he likes it or not
>>
>
>
> Let's do a roll call. How many true pc gamers out there?
>
>

Private Shawk reporting for duty. Regrets every penny spent on MOHPA.
Developers shouldn't be supported for producing that game - should be
lined up a wall and shot.



--
I mean, you've been around a bit, you know, like, you've, uh... You've
'done it'...
What do you mean?
Well, I mean like,... you've SLEPT, with a lady...
Yes...
What's it like?
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 4:20:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Stoned Monkey wrote:
> I'm 100% positive that's the case, its not the developer or publisher
losing
> money, but the shop and even then the retail shops put such a huge
markup on
> the products they sell they aren't losing money they're just not
making as
> large a profit

Depends who owns the stock. There are four basic models:

1) Traditionally the shop will buy the stock from the developer and
then sell it. The developer gets paid immediately and gets their full
share of the money. In this case the shop is carrying all the risk and
they will therefore pay the developer as little as possible, so that
they can make as much margin as possible on the product.

2) The developer gets a % of each box sold as it is sold. In this case
the developer still owns the stock on the shelf and could withdraw it
at any time. The money drips in slower, and even slower still when the
retail price drops. But the developer's % of each box sold will be
bigger than in the first scenario because they are now bearing some of
the risk and they stand to make a bigger profit (or loss) depending on
the game's success.

3) A combination of the above two. The developer gets a small amount
upfront and then takes a small % of each sale.

4) The developer sells their rights entirely. In this case they get a
lump sum and are basically out of the picture from then on. They will
usually make a tidy profit but not make any more money from the game.

Ususally a distributor or wholesaler, or other middleman - or a chain
of these - will buy from the developer/publisher and sell on to the
retail outlet. The relationship between each link of the chain may be
any of the above models and the relationship between shop and developer
is not direct.
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 4:37:53 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

I would apologise, but I'm doing this just to annoy you.
Ooh Usenet is a worse place now.
Look at me shaking with fear.


Andrew wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:07:43 -0500, "CounterStrikeJunkie"
> <uioc@hotel6.com> wrote:
>
> >YES, I am top posting sorry
>
> An apology for something you are about to do that you could quite
> easily avoid doing is rather pointless. If you are going to be lazy
> and inconsiderate, just do it.
> --
> Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
> Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
> please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
> Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 5:59:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Shawk" <shawk@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote in message
news:1110416511.63802.0@dyke.uk.clara.net...
> OldDog wrote:
>
> >>
> >>like i told previously for me a true pc gamer is the one that never
> >>regrets putting money in pc games regardless if he likes it or not
> >>
> >
> >
> > Let's do a roll call. How many true pc gamers out there?
> >
> >
>
> Private Shawk reporting for duty. Regrets every penny spent on MOHPA.
> Developers shouldn't be supported for producing that game - should be
> lined up a wall and shot.
>
>

Cigarette?
Blind fold?


BANG!


Next!
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 7:04:52 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

sayNO2piracy <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:ealt21luvj16nuuns9mrkgk20puinl9lsd@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 09 Mar 2005, alexti wrote:
>
>> I would change it to "respect author's rights". If the game if
>> released as freeware, it's author's choice, you don't need to pay. If
>> you like the
>
> probably its related with my personal experience but for me pc games
> are professional done products which you need to pay to play so i
> don't know about open source or other free ways to get pc games
Majority of them are released commercially, however there are great free
games, for example, Nethack or Betrayal at Krondor. Not being able to find
somebody to pay should not be a reason to skip otherwise great games.

>> developer he should choose to buy from developer directly (if
>> available), rather than from the middleman
>
> people don't give proper appreciation for the retail channel and the
> work it does to pc games
Retail channel by itself doesn't do anything good to pc games. It's just a
mean to obtain those games. Mail order and direct download are other way to
achieve the same objective. To encourage developer one should minimize the
fraction of expenses required to obtain a game.

> i live far away from the developers offices and i feel needing a credit
> card to pay online for pc games being mailed order is not reasonable,
> so i feel the best channel to buy pc games is and will always be the
> retail market
That's kind of case of not being able to optimally reward developer because
of outside causes (lack of credit card). Idea was to recommend buying
directly from developer, not that every body must buy directly from
developer. Those with credit cards can buy direct, those without will have
to revert to other means.

> i know buying directly from the developer should be the best but the
> logistics are too damn difficult and expensive, so we must go to the
> second best and that one is called "retail"
>
>> The only problem is that retail doesn't bother carrying many best
>> titles :(  At least not in North America. Therefore, this point is kind
>> of pointless
>> :)  Usually one have to buy wherever he can find the game.
>
> if that is a problem the answer is retail stores being more specialized
> and small developers getting together to create independent publishers
I think it's impossible business-wise. Retail store can not succeed unless
it's located in an area of high concentration of demand, because otherwise
logistics becomes too hard for the clients. Specializing the store
effectively cuts down the concentration of demand. Small publishers is
somewhat different issue, because they solve not only distribution, but
other necessary issues as well: manual, packaging, hosting, servers etc.
Emergence of small specialized publishers is what actually seems to happen
in last years.

>> probably you should replace "cause they best defend pc gamers". You
>> don't give any reasons and it's probably wrong anyway. At least until
>> there's a major leap in AI. Something like "... if you liked them
>> more" would sound better
>
> i admit i'm somehow biased against mmo cause they will bring costs up
> in pc games, and i'm totally against it cause we already pay enough
That's not necessary the case. For example, most of racing sims and
strategy games while being multiplayer don't bring extra costs aside of
cost if internet connection, which a lot of people need for other reasons
anyway.

>> Important point to add is to always return the game if it fails to
>> meet promises given by developer/publisher (but, not your
>> expectations)
>
> i disagree
> returns should be only acceptable if package is damaged or defective
> or incompatibilities with your machine makes it not run or run with
> problems
> any pc gamer must face that each time he buys a pc game it can not be
> what he was expecting
> disappointment in life happens! people must learn how to live with
> disappointment so they can control frustration
It's not a matter if it's what the buyer expects or not. It's a matter of
what has been advertised. If you're not getting what was advertised return
it back. Just imagine, you buy some brand new game (let's say Quarter-to-
Death) which says "use 683 new weapons" on the box and after careful
recount you discover that 2 of promised weapons are missing and only 681
are to be found. Not only you're cheated out of 2 weapons, but you've
passed on another game which was only [honestly] promising 682 new weapons.
March 10, 2005 9:30:43 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:07:43 -0500, "CounterStrikeJunkie"
<uioc@hotel6.com> wrote:

>YES, I am top posting sorry

An apology for something you are about to do that you could quite
easily avoid doing is rather pointless. If you are going to be lazy
and inconsiderate, just do it.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 11:00:52 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:33:48 -0000, "Les Steel" <a@aolnot.com> wrote:

>
>"dr ratt" <spamsum1else@zen.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:422f25f6$0$8747$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
>>
>> "SayNO2Credit Cards" <chadwick110@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1110377611.925143.29220@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> Bateau wrote:
>>> > NO ONE WANTS YOU TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS OR ANY OTHER NEWSGROUP.
>>>
>>> Speak for yourself.
>>> I'd rather have difool than tossers like you deciding who is and isn't
>>> welcome here. It's an unmoderated NG. If that doesn't agree with you,
>>> then go find a moderated forum somewhere.
>>>
>>
>> seconded. free speech for all
>>
>> dr ratt
>>
>>
>
>I'd rather have baty and his giant skelington back O_o
>
>

NO ! NO !!
1000 times no................
Baty has been so good. Haven't you Baty. Dear Baty...

John Lewis
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 11:46:52 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:25:28 GMT, "OldDog" <OldDog@city.pound> wrote:

>Have you tried the demo? IMO I wasn't exactly blown away by it. But it
>wasn't too terrible either. I just finished KOTOR & Jedi Academy, and now
>I've been spoiled. In both of them, I got to weld a Light Sabre and use
>the Death Gripe. ;) 

I had a pretty amusing moment on the gas mining platform, I used the
Force Choke to pick up a Storm Trooper, walked to the edge of the
platform and then let him go. :) 

--
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 12:14:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005, "OldDog" wrote:

> Sorry, I'm getting fat and lazy in my old age. But I'll jump in every now
> and then with my 2 cents. ;) 

thank you very much for the suggestions although i was counting on a
little bit more

its sad seeing many trying to put down a genuine and honest effort to
do good for pc games
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 12:14:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"sayNO2piracy" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:D urv215r3n16jjjm994omjtscunkh4oq15@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 09 Mar 2005, "OldDog" wrote:
>
>> Sorry, I'm getting fat and lazy in my old age. But I'll jump in every
>> now
>> and then with my 2 cents. ;) 
>
> thank you very much for the suggestions although i was counting on a
> little bit more
>
> its sad seeing many trying to put down a genuine and honest effort to
> do good for pc games
>

If this was a genuine and honest effort, I would be the first to applaud
you.

Your reasoning for doing certain things is nothing more than your opinion
and others including OLDDOG have pointed them out.

Your 'honest effort' is nothing more than an attempt at legitimacy and a
silly attempt to mask your true purpose, to slag Valve and Steam.

Do you really think anyone is buying it.
!