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if disk drives aren't used in 6 months, they will freeze up

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Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 18, 2004 5:52:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

I understand that if disk drives aren't used in 6 months, they will
freeze up. I suppose fresh on retail shelves they can last longer(?),
but once one starts using them, they must be exercised regularly.

The symptom of failure might be ka-chunk noise once per second as it
can't even get started rotating. Any home remedies?

Say if we don't have a computer but still want to exercise our disks
to prevent freeze, could we connect a wallwart transformer at the
appropriate IDE voltage for a few minutes? But there are 4 sockets,
not just red and black.

I was thinking of buying a 2nd IDE drive to do backups. I suppose
whatever brand I buy must still be spun up one every few months to
prevent permanent freeze.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 18, 2004 5:52:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Dan Jacobson wrote:

> I understand that if disk drives aren't used in 6 months, they will
> freeze up. I suppose fresh on retail shelves they can last longer(?),
> but once one starts using them, they must be exercised regularly.
>
> The symptom of failure might be ka-chunk noise once per second as it
> can't even get started rotating. Any home remedies?


And where did you get this information?


-WD
May 18, 2004 5:52:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Seconded - where did this disinformation come from?

"must be exercised regularly" - LOL - what type of exercise???





"Dan Jacobson" <jidanni@jidanni.org> wrote in message
news:878yfrlz58.fsf@jidanni.org...
> I understand that if disk drives aren't used in 6 months, they will
> freeze up. I suppose fresh on retail shelves they can last longer(?),
> but once one starts using them, they must be exercised regularly.
>
> The symptom of failure might be ka-chunk noise once per second as it
> can't even get started rotating. Any home remedies?
>
> Say if we don't have a computer but still want to exercise our disks
> to prevent freeze, could we connect a wallwart transformer at the
> appropriate IDE voltage for a few minutes? But there are 4 sockets,
> not just red and black.
>
> I was thinking of buying a 2nd IDE drive to do backups. I suppose
> whatever brand I buy must still be spun up one every few months to
> prevent permanent freeze.
Related resources
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 18, 2004 5:52:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <878yfrlz58.fsf@jidanni.org>,
Dan Jacobson <jidanni@jidanni.org> wrote:
>I understand that if disk drives aren't used in 6 months, they will
>freeze up. I suppose fresh on retail shelves they can last longer(?),
>but once one starts using them, they must be exercised regularly.
>
>The symptom of failure might be ka-chunk noise once per second as it
>can't even get started rotating. Any home remedies?
>
>Say if we don't have a computer but still want to exercise our disks
>to prevent freeze, could we connect a wallwart transformer at the
>appropriate IDE voltage for a few minutes? But there are 4 sockets,
>not just red and black.
>
>I was thinking of buying a 2nd IDE drive to do backups. I suppose
>whatever brand I buy must still be spun up one every few months to
>prevent permanent freeze.


You're about 6 months late for an April 1 post
--
Al Dykes
-----------
adykes at p a n i x . c o m
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 18, 2004 5:52:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Dan Jacobson" <jidanni@jidanni.org> wrote in message
news:878yfrlz58.fsf@jidanni.org...
> I understand that if disk drives aren't used in 6 months, they will
> freeze up.

It's called stiction and sometimes happens.

> I suppose fresh on retail shelves they can last longer(?),
> but once one starts using them, they must be exercised regularly.
>
> The symptom of failure might be ka-chunk noise once per second as it
> can't even get started rotating. Any home remedies?

It's easy and almost always works. While the drive is powered and trying to
spin up have the drive sitting on a desktop and firmly pick it up and give
it a quick rotational wrist flick on the axis of rotation. Try both
directions repeatedly and soon it'll start spinning. No mechanical
impacts....just snappy rotational wrist flicks on the correct axis.

> Say if we don't have a computer but still want to exercise our disks
> to prevent freeze, could we connect a wallwart transformer at the
> appropriate IDE voltage for a few minutes? But there are 4 sockets,
> not just red and black.
>
> I was thinking of buying a 2nd IDE drive to do backups. I suppose
> whatever brand I buy must still be spun up one every few months to
> prevent permanent freeze.

Don't worry about it as mostly it wont happen.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 18, 2004 5:52:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Will Dormann wrote:

> Dan Jacobson wrote:
>
>> I understand that if disk drives aren't used in 6 months, they will
>> freeze up. I suppose fresh on retail shelves they can last longer(?),
>> but once one starts using them, they must be exercised regularly.
>>
>> The symptom of failure might be ka-chunk noise once per second as it
>> can't even get started rotating. Any home remedies?
>
>
> And where did you get this information?

Some models from CDC/Imprimis did exhibit this behavior--seemed to be
something to do with the lubricant--they could generally be started by a
certain manipulation (I'm not going to try to describe the technique
here--google "imprimis stiction" and you'll probably find some long threads
on it). That was a long time ago though.

> -WD

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 18, 2004 5:52:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"someone" <someone@spamfree.com> wrote in message
news:T18qc.20673$Md.3724@lakeread05...
> Seconded - where did this disinformation come from?

Well the idea that drives need to be frequently powered as presented is just
wive's tales. The fact that drives that sit for sometime unpowered
may(infrequently) experience stiction is a fact.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 18, 2004 5:52:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On 17 May 2004 16:07:42 -0400, adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:

>You're about 6 months late for an April 1 post

*wonders about Al's calendar" :) 

--
Michael Cecil
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
May 18, 2004 5:52:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Mon, 17 May 2004 20:26:30 GMT, "Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@att.net>
wrote:

>Well the idea that drives need to be frequently powered as presented is just
>wive's tales. The fact that drives that sit for sometime unpowered
>may(infrequently) experience stiction is a fact.

The old Seagate ST20 drives would experience stiction overnight. It
eventually made the drive unusable. But that was 15 years ago.

I thought the stiction problem was solved with a special landing zone
where the heads would not stick when the drive was not spinning.


--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in one pretty and well-preserved piece.
One should rather skid in broadside, thoroughly used up,
totally worn out, loudly proclaiming "WOW! WHAT A RIDE!"
May 18, 2004 5:52:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Yep!!! 5 out of 4 people just don't understand math!

"Michael Cecil" <macecil@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:fsjia01sq06gptpq7qdlm0kf64qkph473e@4ax.com...
> On 17 May 2004 16:07:42 -0400, adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:
>
> >You're about 6 months late for an April 1 post
>
> *wonders about Al's calendar" :) 
>
> --
> Michael Cecil
> http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 18, 2004 6:28:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <c8b5kf0f3p@news4.newsguy.com>,
J. Clarke <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>Will Dormann wrote:
>
>> Dan Jacobson wrote:
>>
>>> I understand that if disk drives aren't used in 6 months, they will
>>> freeze up. I suppose fresh on retail shelves they can last longer(?),
>
>Some models from CDC/Imprimis did exhibit this behavior--seemed to be

Apple had a service bulletin out years ago with some of their CDC drives.

I also remember going around a lab of IBM PS 2/70's (about 1995)
after a power outage tapping each HD with a small ball-pein hammer to get
them started when all of them froze up when the power came back on. I got
about 90% restarted this way. I tried milder methods but they failed.

I suspect something similar with the newer Seagate Elites - I've had a high
failure rate in surplus ST446452W's which appear to be unable to spin up
(beeping noise that never stops), but rather than try to fix them I just
junk them ($10 each, not worth the risk). Once they start they're quite
reliable.

Mike Squires
--

Mike Squires (mikes at cs.indiana.edu) 317 233 9456 (w) 812 333 6564 (h)
mikes at siralan.org 546 N Park Ridge Rd., Bloomington, IN 47408
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 18, 2004 2:18:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Mon, 17 May 2004 21:13:20 GMT, spam@spam.com (Bob) wrote:

>The old Seagate ST20 drives would experience stiction overnight. It
>eventually made the drive unusable. But that was 15 years ago.
>
>I thought the stiction problem was solved with a special landing zone
>where the heads would not stick when the drive was not spinning.

I had a few Seagate ST225 drives that suffered from stiction. One
would start up if given a thump or twist when powered up, but the
other required actually removing the cover and giving the platters a
nudge. I only did this a few times (enough to figure out the problem
and get the data off) before retiring it. It worked fine once it
started spinning, though.

This was back when HDs and memory were pretty durn expensive, and you
didn't retire them casually. These days, any little burp is enough
for me to take a drive out of action.


Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 18, 2004 7:30:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Michael Cecil" <macecil@comcast.net> wrote in message news:fsjia01sq06gptpq7qdlm0kf64qkph473e@4ax.com
> On 17 May 2004 16:07:42 -0400, adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:
>
> > You're about 6 months late for an April 1 post
>
> *wonders about Al's calendar" :) 

Al's "staff" probably forgot to proofread Al's posting.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 19, 2004 7:30:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

It's a Seagate 15.3 Gb ST315323A. I plug it in and one can hear the
motor running, but every second there is this loud ka-chunk. Indeed
about every third second, there is a louder ka-chunk. Normal drives
seem to only have a single such ka-chunk just upon starting,
apparently some kind of safety door opening inside.

I had left this drive inside the computer unplugged for two years. The
neighboring drive provided some warmth 12 hours a day. Here in Taiwan
it doesn't get too cold though.

Anyways, I recall the guy at the store said if you don't spin up
within 6 months, drives will be no good.

I tried the wrist flicking mentioned. No help. Same with the soft
impact technique.

Say, with the 4 plug socket, and me wanting to test spinning it up
when I'm not using the computer, can I use a 12,9,7.5,6,4.5,3V
wallwart, or are its voltages not exacting enough? and do I use the 5V
hole or the 12V hole, and would 6V be an ok wallwart setting if using
the 5v hole, or does one need all 4 holes connected instead of 2?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 19, 2004 7:30:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Dan Jacobson" <jidanni@jidanni.org> wrote in message
news:871xlhjzwt.fsf@jidanni.org...
> It's a Seagate 15.3 Gb ST315323A. I plug it in and one can hear the
> motor running, but every second there is this loud ka-chunk.

Well, it's spinning or it isn't. Which is it?

> Indeed
> about every third second, there is a louder ka-chunk. Normal drives
> seem to only have a single such ka-chunk just upon starting,
> apparently some kind of safety door opening inside.
>
> I had left this drive inside the computer unplugged for two years. The
> neighboring drive provided some warmth 12 hours a day. Here in Taiwan
> it doesn't get too cold though.
>
> Anyways, I recall the guy at the store said if you don't spin up
> within 6 months, drives will be no good.

Wive's tale in most cases.

> I tried the wrist flicking mentioned. No help. Same with the soft
> impact technique.

If the drive is spinning then it's likely failed in some other fashion.

> Say, with the 4 plug socket, and me wanting to test spinning it up
> when I'm not using the computer, can I use a 12,9,7.5,6,4.5,3V
> wallwart, or are its voltages not exacting enough? and do I use the 5V
> hole or the 12V hole, and would 6V be an ok wallwart setting if using
> the 5v hole, or does one need all 4 holes connected instead of 2?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 20, 2004 12:39:27 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Dan Jacobson" <jidanni@jidanni.org> wrote in message
news:878yfrlz58.fsf@jidanni.org...
> I understand that if disk drives aren't used in 6 months, they will
> freeze up...
>
> The symptom of failure might be ka-chunk noise once per second as it
> can't even get started rotating. Any home remedies?

A few weeks ago I tried to start an old computer that had been running fine
a year or so ago. The HDD is an ST52520A, which I always considered one of
Seagate's best drives in its day. The drive begins to spin up, gets to
less-than-cruising speed, clicks, stops, repeats. Pre-warming in an oven
didn't help, and neither did the quick-twist method. Anyway, it does start
spinning, so if it's a stiction problem it's with the head mechanism, not
the platter.

nf
May 20, 2004 3:49:38 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Wed, 19 May 2004 20:39:27 GMT, "nutso fasst" <no.replies@no.where>
wrote:

>A few weeks ago I tried to start an old computer that had been running fine
>a year or so ago. The HDD is an ST52520A, which I always considered one of
>Seagate's best drives in its day.

There is no such thing as a Seagate drive that was considered "best".

Seagate always shipped junk.


--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in one pretty and well-preserved piece.
One should rather skid in broadside, thoroughly used up,
totally worn out, loudly proclaiming "WOW! WHAT A RIDE!"
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 20, 2004 3:49:39 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Bob" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:40abf244.9392826@news-server.houston.rr.com...
> On Wed, 19 May 2004 20:39:27 GMT, "nutso fasst" <no.replies@no.where>
> wrote:
>
> There is no such thing as a Seagate drive that was considered "best".
>
> Seagate always shipped junk.
>
Nonsense. Is this something Ron told you?
May 20, 2004 5:16:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Wed, 19 May 2004 18:51:10 -0700, "Eric Gisin"
<ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote:

>> Seagate always shipped junk.

>Nonsense. Is this something Ron told you?

No, it's something we have known all along.

Maybe WD told us.



--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in one pretty and well-preserved piece.
One should rather skid in broadside, thoroughly used up,
totally worn out, loudly proclaiming "WOW! WHAT A RIDE!"
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 24, 2004 8:41:43 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"nutso fasst" <no.replies@no.where> wrote in message news:<3CPqc.1397$Iq6.516@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>...

> A few weeks ago I tried to start an old computer that had
> been running fine a year or so ago. The HDD is an ST52520A,
> which I always considered one of Seagate's best drives in its
> day. The drive begins to spin up, gets to less-than-cruising
> speed, clicks, stops, repeats. Pre-warming in an oven didn't
> help, and neither did the quick-twist method. Anyway, it does
> start spinning, so if it's a stiction problem it's with the
> head mechanism, not the platter.

If it spun at all, it can't possibly be a stiction problem, period.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 25, 2004 12:36:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

This is not true. I have had hard drives sit for years and then started
them with no problem. You are getting this information from a less than
reliable source.

Jimmy


"Dan Jacobson" <jidanni@jidanni.org> wrote in message
news:878yfrlz58.fsf@jidanni.org...
> I understand that if disk drives aren't used in 6 months, they will
> freeze up. I suppose fresh on retail shelves they can last longer(?),
> but once one starts using them, they must be exercised regularly.
>
> The symptom of failure might be ka-chunk noise once per second as it
> can't even get started rotating. Any home remedies?
>
> Say if we don't have a computer but still want to exercise our disks
> to prevent freeze, could we connect a wallwart transformer at the
> appropriate IDE voltage for a few minutes? But there are 4 sockets,
> not just red and black.
>
> I was thinking of buying a 2nd IDE drive to do backups. I suppose
> whatever brand I buy must still be spun up one every few months to
> prevent permanent freeze.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 25, 2004 12:37:07 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Bob" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:40abf244.9392826@news-server.houston.rr.com...
> On Wed, 19 May 2004 20:39:27 GMT, "nutso fasst" <no.replies@no.where>
> wrote:
>
> >A few weeks ago I tried to start an old computer that had been running
fine
> >a year or so ago. The HDD is an ST52520A, which I always considered one
of
> >Seagate's best drives in its day.
>
> There is no such thing as a Seagate drive that was considered "best".
>
> Seagate always shipped junk.

All hard drives are junk.


>
>
> --
>
> Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
> http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/
>
> Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of
> arriving safely in one pretty and well-preserved piece.
> One should rather skid in broadside, thoroughly used up,
> totally worn out, loudly proclaiming "WOW! WHAT A RIDE!"
!