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Backup software for a home network?

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Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 2, 2004 9:24:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

I have a home network and would like to have recommendations for a
program that will 1, allow backup over our home network so that I can
backup my daughter and wife's computers, and 2, allow for automatic
scheduling.

I presently have Acronis True Image 7.0, which provides complete images
and incremental images but does not, I believe, allow for automatically
scheduled incremental backups (only manually scheduled).

Thanks
Ken K
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 3, 2004 4:08:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <10bsrmj5fhp2q3c@corp.supernews.com>,
Ken K <psnwREMOVE@theREMOVEkrones.com> wrote:
>I have a home network and would like to have recommendations for a
>program that will 1, allow backup over our home network so that I can
>backup my daughter and wife's computers, and 2, allow for automatic
>scheduling.
>
>I presently have Acronis True Image 7.0, which provides complete images
>and incremental images but does not, I believe, allow for automatically
>scheduled incremental backups (only manually scheduled).
>
>Thanks
>Ken K
>

Assuming you've got w2k/XP machines ntbackup will work fine. You can
backup A to B and B to A, or A and B to C over your LAN.

The target machines need enough disk space, and it has to be NTFS (2
or 4 GB file size limit in FAT32.) Give the folder you're sharing
teh compress attribute and you'll get lots more data on the target disk.

ntbackup is installed by default in w2k and XP/pro. It has to be
added aterwords in XP/home.

If one of your clients is w/98 it can backup to the same file server
that the other machines use. xcopy is better than nothing.

Acronis is great, but ntbackup full backups work fine. IMHO if a disk
crashes recovery from an ntbackup full backup is a bit tedious. With
an acronis image recovery is really easy.





--
Al Dykes
-----------
adykes at p a n i x . c o m
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 3, 2004 4:08:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Al Dykes wrote:

>In article <10bsrmj5fhp2q3c@corp.supernews.com>,
>Ken K <psnwREMOVE@theREMOVEkrones.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I have a home network and would like to have recommendations for a
>>program that will 1, allow backup over our home network so that I can
>>backup my daughter and wife's computers, and 2, allow for automatic
>>scheduling.
>>
>>I presently have Acronis True Image 7.0, which provides complete images
>>and incremental images but does not, I believe, allow for automatically
>>scheduled incremental backups (only manually scheduled).
>>
>>Thanks
>>Ken K
>>
>>
>>
>
>Assuming you've got w2k/XP machines ntbackup will work fine. You can
>backup A to B and B to A, or A and B to C over your LAN.
>
>The target machines need enough disk space, and it has to be NTFS (2
>or 4 GB file size limit in FAT32.) Give the folder you're sharing
>teh compress attribute and you'll get lots more data on the target disk.
>
>ntbackup is installed by default in w2k and XP/pro. It has to be
>added aterwords in XP/home.
>
>If one of your clients is w/98 it can backup to the same file server
>that the other machines use. xcopy is better than nothing.
>
>Acronis is great, but ntbackup full backups work fine. IMHO if a disk
>crashes recovery from an ntbackup full backup is a bit tedious. With
>an acronis image recovery is really easy.
>
Thanks for responding. I have Acronis on all of the machines now, so
that will work.

I did not understand "Give the folder you're sharing

teh compress attribute and you'll get lots more data on the target disk." Is that the compression box to check (in Win2K) under Properties, Advanced,

Allow Compression? Do I have to do that for all 96,725 files???? You
must be referring to a specific folder---which one? The one where the
image file is being kept?

Thanks
Ken


>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 3, 2004 4:39:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Ken K wrote:
> I presently have Acronis True Image 7.0, which provides complete images
> and incremental images but does not, I believe, allow for automatically
> scheduled incremental backups (only manually scheduled).

It surely does support scheduled incremental backups. I have my
parents' PC set up to automatically image itself to a backup drive in an
incremental manner. I also have a scheduled VBS file to clean up the
backup drive once it reaches a certain capacity. This way it's totally
hands-off.

For example, schedule an incremental backup job to backup to image to
D:\backup.tbs

The first time it runs it will create a full backup. Every time from
that point on it will create an incremental backup. If at any point
that first backup is inaccessible or deleted, it will run as a full
backup. It works quite well, really.



-WD
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 3, 2004 4:39:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Well thank you, I stand corrected :-) I actually had only read the
manual but had not looked fully through the program, as I had only used
it recently to copy the image of one laptop onto the newly replaced hard
drive of another identical laptop. The program worked flawlessly.

That being the case, here is what I would like to be able to do: do a
full image once a week with nightly incremental backups. Can that be
automated within the program?

Thanks
Ken

Will Dormann wrote:

> Ken K wrote:
>
>> I presently have Acronis True Image 7.0, which provides complete
>> images and incremental images but does not, I believe, allow for
>> automatically scheduled incremental backups (only manually scheduled).
>
>
> It surely does support scheduled incremental backups. I have my
> parents' PC set up to automatically image itself to a backup drive in
> an incremental manner. I also have a scheduled VBS file to clean up
> the backup drive once it reaches a certain capacity. This way it's
> totally hands-off.
>
> For example, schedule an incremental backup job to backup to image to
> D:\backup.tbs
>
> The first time it runs it will create a full backup. Every time from
> that point on it will create an incremental backup. If at any point
> that first backup is inaccessible or deleted, it will run as a full
> backup. It works quite well, really.
>
>
>
> -WD
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 3, 2004 4:39:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Well thank you, I stand corrected :-) I actually had only read the
manual but had not looked fully through the program, as I had only used
it recently to copy the image of one laptop onto the newly replaced hard
drive of another identical laptop. The program worked flawlessly.

That being the case, here is what I would like to be able to do: do a
full image once a week with nightly incremental backups. Can that be
automated within the program?

Thanks
Ken

Will Dormann wrote:

> Ken K wrote:
>
>> I presently have Acronis True Image 7.0, which provides complete
>> images and incremental images but does not, I believe, allow for
>> automatically scheduled incremental backups (only manually scheduled).
>
>
> It surely does support scheduled incremental backups. I have my
> parents' PC set up to automatically image itself to a backup drive in
> an incremental manner. I also have a scheduled VBS file to clean up
> the backup drive once it reaches a certain capacity. This way it's
> totally hands-off.
>
> For example, schedule an incremental backup job to backup to image to
> D:\backup.tbs
>
> The first time it runs it will create a full backup. Every time from
> that point on it will create an incremental backup. If at any point
> that first backup is inaccessible or deleted, it will run as a full
> backup. It works quite well, really.
>
>
>
> -WD
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 3, 2004 4:39:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Well thank you, I stand corrected :-) I actually had only read the
manual but had not looked fully through the program, as I had only used
it recently to copy the image of one laptop onto the newly replaced hard
drive of another identical laptop. The program worked flawlessly.

That being the case, here is what I would like to be able to do: do a
full image once a week with nightly incremental backups. Can that be
automated within the program?

Thanks
Ken

Will Dormann wrote:

> Ken K wrote:
>
>> I presently have Acronis True Image 7.0, which provides complete
>> images and incremental images but does not, I believe, allow for
>> automatically scheduled incremental backups (only manually scheduled).
>
>
> It surely does support scheduled incremental backups. I have my
> parents' PC set up to automatically image itself to a backup drive in
> an incremental manner. I also have a scheduled VBS file to clean up
> the backup drive once it reaches a certain capacity. This way it's
> totally hands-off.
>
> For example, schedule an incremental backup job to backup to image to
> D:\backup.tbs
>
> The first time it runs it will create a full backup. Every time from
> that point on it will create an incremental backup. If at any point
> that first backup is inaccessible or deleted, it will run as a full
> backup. It works quite well, really.
>
>
>
> -WD
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 3, 2004 4:39:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Sorry about the repetition. I receive error messages that the email did
not go through when it clearly did....

KK

Ken K wrote:

> Well thank you, I stand corrected :-) I actually had only read the
> manual but had not looked fully through the program, as I had only
> used it recently to copy the image of one laptop onto the newly
> replaced hard drive of another identical laptop. The program worked
> flawlessly.
>
> That being the case, here is what I would like to be able to do: do a
> full image once a week with nightly incremental backups. Can that be
> automated within the program?
>
> Thanks
> Ken
>
> Will Dormann wrote:
>
>> Ken K wrote:
>>
>>> I presently have Acronis True Image 7.0, which provides complete
>>> images and incremental images but does not, I believe, allow for
>>> automatically scheduled incremental backups (only manually scheduled).
>>
>>
>>
>> It surely does support scheduled incremental backups. I have my
>> parents' PC set up to automatically image itself to a backup drive in
>> an incremental manner. I also have a scheduled VBS file to clean up
>> the backup drive once it reaches a certain capacity. This way it's
>> totally hands-off.
>>
>> For example, schedule an incremental backup job to backup to image to
>> D:\backup.tbs
>>
>> The first time it runs it will create a full backup. Every time
>> from that point on it will create an incremental backup. If at any
>> point that first backup is inaccessible or deleted, it will run as a
>> full backup. It works quite well, really.
>>
>>
>>
>> -WD
>
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 3, 2004 10:20:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Ken K wrote:

> That being the case, here is what I would like to be able to do: do a
> full image once a week with nightly incremental backups. Can that be
> automated within the program?

Sure. But how you implement it depends on how many old backups you want
to retain on the drive.

One example of this would be to create an incremental backup that runs
daily. Create another weekly scheduled script that renames or moves
your weeks worth of backups elsewhere. The next time your scheduled
backup runs, it will create a full backup because there is no existing
backup to create an incremental backup from.


-WD
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 3, 2004 1:36:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <10btb80cjbcr3e6@corp.supernews.com>,
Ken K <psnwREMOVE@theREMOVEkrones.com> wrote:
>
>
>Al Dykes wrote:
>
>>In article <10bsrmj5fhp2q3c@corp.supernews.com>,
>>Ken K <psnwREMOVE@theREMOVEkrones.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have a home network and would like to have recommendations for a
>>>program that will 1, allow backup over our home network so that I can
>>>backup my daughter and wife's computers, and 2, allow for automatic
>>>scheduling.
>>>
>>>I presently have Acronis True Image 7.0, which provides complete images
>>>and incremental images but does not, I believe, allow for automatically
>>>scheduled incremental backups (only manually scheduled).
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>Ken K
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Assuming you've got w2k/XP machines ntbackup will work fine. You can
>>backup A to B and B to A, or A and B to C over your LAN.
>>
>>The target machines need enough disk space, and it has to be NTFS (2
>>or 4 GB file size limit in FAT32.) Give the folder you're sharing
>>teh compress attribute and you'll get lots more data on the target disk.
>>
>>ntbackup is installed by default in w2k and XP/pro. It has to be
>>added aterwords in XP/home.
>>
>>If one of your clients is w/98 it can backup to the same file server
>>that the other machines use. xcopy is better than nothing.
>>
>>Acronis is great, but ntbackup full backups work fine. IMHO if a disk
>>crashes recovery from an ntbackup full backup is a bit tedious. With
>>an acronis image recovery is really easy.
>>
>Thanks for responding. I have Acronis on all of the machines now, so
>that will work.
>
>I did not understand "Give the folder you're sharing
>
>teh compress attribute and you'll get lots more data on the target disk.
" Is that the compression box to check (in Win2K) under
Properties, Advanced,
>
>Allow Compression? Do I have to do that for all 96,725 files???? You
>must be referring to a specific folder---which one? The one where the
>image file is being kept?

For reasons nobody understands, Microsoft changed the GIU in w2k/XP to
set compression and made it even more obtuse. If you check the right
box it will compress all files and folders underneath the shared
folder.

Setting compression never hurts, but since Acronis already compresses
it dooesn't get you anything. ntbackup doesn't compress so it's great
to use the file system to accomplish the same thing.

Once you set compression property on a folder all the files your save
there get compressed as they are written.

If you look in Explorer options you'll see a checkbox that makes
explorer show all files/folders that are compressed in a different
color. If you right-mouse-click on a compressed file or folder
it will show you the compressed and as-if-uncompressed sizes.

--
Al Dykes
-----------
adykes at p a n i x . c o m
June 3, 2004 6:31:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 20:30:04 -0700, Ken K
<psnwREMOVE@theREMOVEkrones.com> wrote:

>Sorry about the repetition. I receive error messages that the email did
>not go through when it clearly did....

Usenet is not email.


--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/

Government's view of the economy can be summed up in a few short phrases:
* If it moves, tax it.
* If it keeps moving, regulate it.
* If it stops moving, subsidize it.
--Ronald Reagan
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 3, 2004 7:19:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Ken K wrote:

> So where do I find the book How to Write Scripts for Dummies ? I see
> where I can make a script to backup the image completely and/or
> incrementally but I do not see that there is a script to erase and
> replace a complete backup, so I assume that you are talking about
> writing a script that I would then enable through Scheduled Tasks...?

The scriping I'm talking about has nothing to do with Acronis. It's a
complete separete process that is scheduled through Windows' built-in
task scheduler. For my parents' machine here is the script I use. (VBS)

***** Cut here *****
set oFs = WScript.CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
set oDrives = oFs.Drives

for each oDrive in oDrives
Select case oDrive.DriveLetter
Case "D"
'msgbox oDrive.FreeSpace & vbcrlf
if oDrive.FreeSpace < 1000000000 then ' Less than 1 GB free...
'msgbox "Cleanup Time!"
oFs.DeleteFile("D:\*.tib"),DeleteReadOnly
else
'msgbox "You've got enough space"
end if
End Select
next
***** Cut here *****


It's probably not the most elegant code, but that's because I just
bastardized an existing VBS that I Googled. The Acronis job is
scheduled (internally) to run at noon. I have the above script
scheduled (via Windows scheduled tasks) to run at a couple of minutes
before noon.

Depending on what you want to do with your backup files, a simple batch
file may suffice. Or even not-so-simple.
http://www.fpschultze.de/batstuff.html

I have recommended adding some sort of internal "housekeeping" routines
like the above to TrueImage, and Acronis said that they are considering
it for a future release of TrueImage.


-WD
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 3, 2004 7:19:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Well, if Acronis is smart, they will hire you!

Thanks
Ken K

Will Dormann wrote:

> Ken K wrote:
>
>> So where do I find the book How to Write Scripts for Dummies ? I
>> see where I can make a script to backup the image completely and/or
>> incrementally but I do not see that there is a script to erase and
>> replace a complete backup, so I assume that you are talking about
>> writing a script that I would then enable through Scheduled Tasks...?
>
>
> The scriping I'm talking about has nothing to do with Acronis. It's
> a complete separete process that is scheduled through Windows'
> built-in task scheduler. For my parents' machine here is the
> script I use. (VBS)
>
> ***** Cut here *****
> set oFs = WScript.CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
> set oDrives = oFs.Drives
>
> for each oDrive in oDrives
> Select case oDrive.DriveLetter
> Case "D"
> 'msgbox oDrive.FreeSpace & vbcrlf
> if oDrive.FreeSpace < 1000000000 then ' Less than 1 GB free...
> 'msgbox "Cleanup Time!"
> oFs.DeleteFile("D:\*.tib"),DeleteReadOnly
> else
> 'msgbox "You've got enough space"
> end if
> End Select
> next
> ***** Cut here *****
>
>
> It's probably not the most elegant code, but that's because I just
> bastardized an existing VBS that I Googled. The Acronis job is
> scheduled (internally) to run at noon. I have the above script
> scheduled (via Windows scheduled tasks) to run at a couple of minutes
> before noon.
>
> Depending on what you want to do with your backup files, a simple
> batch file may suffice. Or even not-so-simple.
> http://www.fpschultze.de/batstuff.html
>
> I have recommended adding some sort of internal "housekeeping"
> routines like the above to TrueImage, and Acronis said that they are
> considering it for a future release of TrueImage.
>
>
> -WD
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 6, 2004 9:44:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Will,

Could you email me your VBS code? I've been looking for something to do
that! I could probably figure how to modify it for my needs, but am not good
enough to write it from scratch.

Thanks!

--Randy Starkey


"Will Dormann" <wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:Hquvc.18025$DG4.14858@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> Ken K wrote:
> > I presently have Acronis True Image 7.0, which provides complete images
> > and incremental images but does not, I believe, allow for automatically
> > scheduled incremental backups (only manually scheduled).
>
> It surely does support scheduled incremental backups. I have my
> parents' PC set up to automatically image itself to a backup drive in an
> incremental manner. I also have a scheduled VBS file to clean up the
> backup drive once it reaches a certain capacity. This way it's totally
> hands-off.
>
> For example, schedule an incremental backup job to backup to image to
> D:\backup.tbs
>
> The first time it runs it will create a full backup. Every time from
> that point on it will create an incremental backup. If at any point
> that first backup is inaccessible or deleted, it will run as a full
> backup. It works quite well, really.
>
>
>
> -WD
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 7, 2004 5:09:08 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Pastor Randy Starkey wrote:
> Will,
>
> Could you email me your VBS code? I've been looking for something to do
> that! I could probably figure how to modify it for my needs, but am not good
> enough to write it from scratch.


Sure thing. I actually posted it in a different message in this thread.
Here it is:


***** Cut here *****
set oFs = WScript.CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
set oDrives = oFs.Drives

for each oDrive in oDrives
Select case oDrive.DriveLetter
Case "D"
'msgbox oDrive.FreeSpace & vbcrlf
if oDrive.FreeSpace < 1000000000 then ' Less than 1 GB free...
'msgbox "Cleanup Time!"
oFs.DeleteFile("D:\*.tib"),DeleteReadOnly
else
'msgbox "You've got enough space"
end if
End Select
next
***** Cut here *****


It's probably not the most elegant code, but that's because I just
bastardized an existing VBS that I Googled. The Acronis job is
scheduled (internally) to run at noon. I have the above script
scheduled (via Windows scheduled tasks) to run at a couple of minutes
before noon.

Depending on what you want to do with your backup files, a simple batch
file may suffice. Or even not-so-simple.
http://www.fpschultze.de/batstuff.html



-WD
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 7, 2004 5:09:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Pastor Randy Starkey wrote:
> Will,
>
> Could you email me your VBS code? I've been looking for something to do
> that! I could probably figure how to modify it for my needs, but am not good
> enough to write it from scratch.


Sure thing. I actually posted it in a different message in this thread.
Here it is:


***** Cut here *****
set oFs = WScript.CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
set oDrives = oFs.Drives

for each oDrive in oDrives
Select case oDrive.DriveLetter
Case "D"
'msgbox oDrive.FreeSpace & vbcrlf
if oDrive.FreeSpace < 1000000000 then ' Less than 1 GB free...
'msgbox "Cleanup Time!"
oFs.DeleteFile("D:\*.tib"),DeleteReadOnly
else
'msgbox "You've got enough space"
end if
End Select
next
***** Cut here *****


It's probably not the most elegant code, but that's because I just
bastardized an existing VBS that I Googled. The Acronis job is
scheduled (internally) to run at noon. I have the above script
scheduled (via Windows scheduled tasks) to run at a couple of minutes
before noon.

Depending on what you want to do with your backup files, a simple batch
file may suffice. Or even not-so-simple.
http://www.fpschultze.de/batstuff.html



-WD
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 7, 2004 2:21:37 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 06:20:09 GMT, Will Dormann
<wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

>One example of this would be to create an incremental backup that runs
>daily. Create another weekly scheduled script that renames or moves
>your weeks worth of backups elsewhere. The next time your scheduled
>backup runs, it will create a full backup because there is no existing
>backup to create an incremental backup from.

Another option that doesn't need scripts or regular intervention is to
have 2 automated backups per drive. One is a full backup, run once a
week (say C-Full.tib). The other is an incremental backup run daily
(you could leave off the full backup day from this schedule), with the
full backup as a target. This will create C-Full1.tib through
C-Full6.tib. It will then start over again the next week and re-use
all the file names.

If something goes wrong in the schedule and the full doesn't get
updated (this happens sometimes, depending on how you've got it set
up), you'll end up with additional incrementals 7-12. They'll remain
there once the backups get synchronized again, but will get out of
date, and need to be deleted.

I also do an additional weekly full backup (C-alternative), just in
case something goes wrong with the main one.

I recommend checking the TI log regularly to make sure nothing's going
wrong. It's fairly robust, but it's not very good at notifying you
when there's a problem.


Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer
June 7, 2004 9:42:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 10:21:37 -0700, Neil Maxwell
<neil.maxwell@intel.com> wrote:

>Another option that doesn't need scripts or regular intervention is to
>have 2 automated backups per drive. One is a full backup, run once a
>week (say C-Full.tib). The other is an incremental backup run daily

I recommend considering a differential backup instead of an
incremental backup.

The differential backup does not clear the archive bit, and therefore
you backup the same files each day plus any new ones that need to be
backed up. The advantage is that you only have one backup file.

Incremental backups are great if only a few files require backup each
day. But I have discovered from experimentation that the same large
files show up for backup each day, so why carry each day's backup on
disk? Also a differential backup is much easier to restore.

I backup the disk with Drive Image Pro, which does nothing to the
archive bit. Then I run an incremental backup to clear the archive bit
on as many files as I can. From there I run a diffierential backup
each midnight using Backup Exec that comes with Win2K (called
"NTBackup"). I only have one backup file to deal with.


--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/

"When you see all that rhetorical smoke billowing up from the
Democrats, well ladies and gentleman, I'd follow the example
of their nominee; don't inhale."
--Ronald Reagan
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 8, 2004 8:29:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Neil Maxwell wrote:

> Another option that doesn't need scripts or regular intervention is to
> have 2 automated backups per drive. One is a full backup, run once a
> week (say C-Full.tib). The other is an incremental backup run daily
> (you could leave off the full backup day from this schedule), with the
> full backup as a target. This will create C-Full1.tib through
> C-Full6.tib. It will then start over again the next week and re-use
> all the file names.

So setting the backup type to "Full" will overwrite the target file if
it already exists?

And if the existing incremental backups are referencing a full backup
that doesn't exist, they will be overwritten when the scheduled
incremental backup runs? In my experience, a scheduled incremental
backup will never overwrite an existing file, but maybe the conditions
just weren't right?


-WD
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 8, 2004 3:38:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 04:29:48 GMT, Will Dormann
<wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

>Neil Maxwell wrote:
>
>> Another option that doesn't need scripts or regular intervention is to
>> have 2 automated backups per drive. One is a full backup, run once a
>> week (say C-Full.tib). The other is an incremental backup run daily
>> (you could leave off the full backup day from this schedule), with the
>> full backup as a target. This will create C-Full1.tib through
>> C-Full6.tib. It will then start over again the next week and re-use
>> all the file names.
>
>So setting the backup type to "Full" will overwrite the target file if
>it already exists?

Yes.

>And if the existing incremental backups are referencing a full backup
>that doesn't exist, they will be overwritten when the scheduled
>incremental backup runs? In my experience, a scheduled incremental
>backup will never overwrite an existing file, but maybe the conditions
>just weren't right?

This is just my experience with TI7; my earlier experiences were with
tape-based backup and didn't have the same level of filename control.
Other programs may work differently.

When TI7 runs an incremental backup, it appends to the most recent
backup (full or incremental) and increments the file name. For
instance, if you don't do a full for 2 weeks and do incrementals, it
will get up to C-Full14.tib. If you then restart the full/weekly
series, it will replace C-Full.tib on the first full backup, then
replace C-Full2.tib thru C-Full7.tib on the following incrementals,
and start over again. It will leave the 8-14 files in place as
orphans, where they will get increasingly stale, and need to be
deleted to free up the space.

If, on the 3rd day, you ran another C-Full.tib full backup, the next
day's incremental would be named C-Full2.tib, and so on. All the
older files would still be there, but would be orphaned, and
eventually overwritten as the schedules got re-synced.

I see this when my full backups get missed for various reasons.
Deleting the orphaned incrementals depends on their creation date;
anything created before the full can be deleted, anything created
after the full is part of the current backup set, regardless of name.


Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 8, 2004 4:05:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 17:42:04 GMT, spam@spam.com (Bob) wrote:

>On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 10:21:37 -0700, Neil Maxwell
><neil.maxwell@intel.com> wrote:
>
>>Another option that doesn't need scripts or regular intervention is to
>>have 2 automated backups per drive. One is a full backup, run once a
>>week (say C-Full.tib). The other is an incremental backup run daily
>
>I recommend considering a differential backup instead of an
>incremental backup.

TI7 only offers what they call an incremental backup, which is the
same as a differential backup. This only backs up new files, and my
experience is that the incremental does not grow in size daily and is
often smaller than a previous day's.

>The differential backup does not clear the archive bit, and therefore
>you backup the same files each day plus any new ones that need to be
>backed up. The advantage is that you only have one backup file.

TI7 treats the entire thing as a single backup. That is, when you
open a backup, it opens the most recent version - the full plus all
incrementals. It won't allow you to open up just a incremental.
There are multiple files, but it makes them one virtual backup. Their
big push is ease of use and wizards, and you lose some of the control
and granularity of traditional backup proggies. I haven't tried
deleting one of the incrementals to see how it would handle it; this
would be a good test.

>Incremental backups are great if only a few files require backup each
>day. But I have discovered from experimentation that the same large
>files show up for backup each day, so why carry each day's backup on
>disk? Also a differential backup is much easier to restore.
>
>I backup the disk with Drive Image Pro, which does nothing to the
>archive bit. Then I run an incremental backup to clear the archive bit
>on as many files as I can. From there I run a diffierential backup
>each midnight using Backup Exec that comes with Win2K (called
>"NTBackup"). I only have one backup file to deal with.

Lots of techniques, as always. I like TI7 because of its simplicity
and friendliness, and have had very good luck using it to support
non-technical people. I haven't played with DIPro, but my experiences
with Ghost have left me unsatisfied. It does some stuff that TI7
doesn't, but at the cost of complexity, reboots to DOS, a much higher
level of geekiness, and the occasional "operating system not found"
error...


Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer
June 9, 2004 5:22:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:05:40 -0700, Neil Maxwell
<neil.maxwell@intel.com> wrote:

>TI7 only offers what they call an incremental backup, which is the
>same as a differential backup.

Wrong.


--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/

"Welfare's purpose should be to eliminate, as far as
possible, the need for its own existence."
--Ronald Reagan
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 9, 2004 1:22:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 01:22:30 GMT, spam@spam.com (Bob) wrote:

>On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:05:40 -0700, Neil Maxwell
><neil.maxwell@intel.com> wrote:
>
>>TI7 only offers what they call an incremental backup, which is the
>>same as a differential backup.
>
>Wrong.

Care to expand?


Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 10, 2004 9:31:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:20:45 GMT, spam@spam.com (Bob) wrote:

>On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 09:22:15 -0700, Neil Maxwell
><neil.maxwell@intel.com> wrote:
>
>>>>TI7 only offers what they call an incremental backup, which is the
>>>>same as a differential backup.
>
>>>Wrong.
>
>>Care to expand?
>
>An incremental backup clears the archive bit. A differential backup
>does not clear the archive bit.

(balance of good explanation snipped)

I probably should have stated that it's *essentially* the same as a
differential backup for TI7. You're right, they don't clear the
archive bit, and they do call it an incremental backup, but it behaves
very much like a traditional differential backup except for those
aspects.

Only changed files are backed up. If a full backup is performed on
Monday and a file changes on Tuesday, it gets backed up on Tuesday
night's backup. It does not get backed up again on subsequent days
unless it gets changed again, but the archive bit is left as it was
(TI7 doesn't ever change the archive bits, AFAIK, but uses internal
data to determine the file state). As I said, the incremental often
gets smaller as the week progresses, just like a differential file
might.

TI7 also restores everything as a virtual single file, regardless of
how many actual incremental files it has made. It restores the state
of the HD as of the last incremental backup in one operation
automatically. You can't choose the individual backups, which may not
be optimal for some uses, but is very simple and bulletproof.

It's really not a traditional backup program, which is one reason I
like it, after many years of using backup programs. It's very easy to
support with inexperienced users, and the focus of the program is
user-friendly wizards and simplicity. As long as it supports your
hardware, I've found it to be reliable, fast, and very easy.

I consider it a bit of a revolution in HD backup, and have helped a
number of inexperienced users set up backup systems with it. So far,
it's worked very well for both backup and restore, but time will tell
on long-term reliability.


Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer
!