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Need hard drive advice for Dell Inspiron 8200

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June 28, 2004 5:08:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.arch.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Hi All,

I am not a laptop user, and I have been asked to replace a hard drive that
appears to be failing (failed confidence tests in the Dell Hardware
Diagnostics--SMART reports possible impending disk failure). And the drive
seems to be failing (slow file access, some blue screen errors, etc.)

I am writing because when I called Dell, the technician said that the hard
drive was an IBM Cascade 30 GB. When I looked up the drive name in Windows
XP Home Device Manager, the drive is identified as IC25N030ATCS04-0 (0's are
the digit, not the letter.) On Hitachi's website, this is a Travelstar 40GN
drive, not IBM, and Hitachi's specs note that the drive is ATA-5. Dell's
"Configuration as shipped new" reads as follows: HARD DRIVE, 30GB, IDE,
2.5" FORM FACTOR, 9.5 MM, IBM-CSD with a part number of 0K727.

I can't open the case up myself because of physical limitations, but I would
like to recommend a hard drive that would work for my friend. I have been
told that any of the Hitachi Travelstars would work. My concern is that few
people make ATA-5 drives anymore, and I want to get her something that will
likely work the first try. Dell isn't talking--the system is exactly two
years old and one year out of warranty.

Would any Travelstar model work? Why is there confusion between the
Hitchachi Travelstar and IBM names. I would like to get good bang for the
buck, or best compromise among price, speed, features, and reliability.

I would love any input you could offer. Thanks much. She has 256 MB RAM,
running XP home.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 28, 2004 5:08:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.arch.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

IBM sold their drive business to Hitachi, hence the
name confudsion. Travelstars are also know as
Deathstars.

"Michael" <please-ask-me@ask.com> wrote in message
news:lcKDc.1350$lx2.103@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> Hi All,
>
> I am not a laptop user, and I have been asked to replace a hard
drive that
> appears to be failing (failed confidence tests in the Dell
Hardware
> Diagnostics--SMART reports possible impending disk failure).
And the drive
> seems to be failing (slow file access, some blue screen errors,
etc.)
>
> I am writing because when I called Dell, the technician said
that the hard
> drive was an IBM Cascade 30 GB. When I looked up the drive
name in Windows
> XP Home Device Manager, the drive is identified as
IC25N030ATCS04-0 (0's are
> the digit, not the letter.) On Hitachi's website, this is a
Travelstar 40GN
> drive, not IBM, and Hitachi's specs note that the drive is
ATA-5. Dell's
> "Configuration as shipped new" reads as follows: HARD DRIVE,
30GB, IDE,
> 2.5" FORM FACTOR, 9.5 MM, IBM-CSD with a part number of 0K727.
>
> I can't open the case up myself because of physical
limitations, but I would
> like to recommend a hard drive that would work for my friend.
I have been
> told that any of the Hitachi Travelstars would work. My
concern is that few
> people make ATA-5 drives anymore, and I want to get her
something that will
> likely work the first try. Dell isn't talking--the system is
exactly two
> years old and one year out of warranty.
>
> Would any Travelstar model work? Why is there confusion
between the
> Hitchachi Travelstar and IBM names. I would like to get good
bang for the
> buck, or best compromise among price, speed, features, and
reliability.
>
> I would love any input you could offer. Thanks much. She has
256 MB RAM,
> running XP home.
>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 28, 2004 5:08:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.arch.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

IBM sold their hard disk group to Hitachi along with the Travelstar name.
So, the drive is both an IBM and a Hitachi, but any comparable drive, of any
brand, will work fine. 9.5mm height. That's about it.

Tom
"Michael" <please-ask-me@ask.com> wrote in message
news:lcKDc.1350$lx2.103@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> Hi All,
>
> I am not a laptop user, and I have been asked to replace a hard drive that
> appears to be failing (failed confidence tests in the Dell Hardware
> Diagnostics--SMART reports possible impending disk failure). And the
drive
> seems to be failing (slow file access, some blue screen errors, etc.)
>
> I am writing because when I called Dell, the technician said that the hard
> drive was an IBM Cascade 30 GB. When I looked up the drive name in
Windows
> XP Home Device Manager, the drive is identified as IC25N030ATCS04-0 (0's
are
> the digit, not the letter.) On Hitachi's website, this is a Travelstar
40GN
> drive, not IBM, and Hitachi's specs note that the drive is ATA-5. Dell's
> "Configuration as shipped new" reads as follows: HARD DRIVE, 30GB, IDE,
> 2.5" FORM FACTOR, 9.5 MM, IBM-CSD with a part number of 0K727.
>
> I can't open the case up myself because of physical limitations, but I
would
> like to recommend a hard drive that would work for my friend. I have been
> told that any of the Hitachi Travelstars would work. My concern is that
few
> people make ATA-5 drives anymore, and I want to get her something that
will
> likely work the first try. Dell isn't talking--the system is exactly two
> years old and one year out of warranty.
>
> Would any Travelstar model work? Why is there confusion between the
> Hitchachi Travelstar and IBM names. I would like to get good bang for the
> buck, or best compromise among price, speed, features, and reliability.
>
> I would love any input you could offer. Thanks much. She has 256 MB RAM,
> running XP home.
>
>
>
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 28, 2004 8:52:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.arch.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

All the other advice you've gotten is good except get this one as it'll be
much faster:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?Product...

"Michael" <please-ask-me@ask.com> wrote in message
news:lcKDc.1350$lx2.103@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> Hi All,
>
> I am not a laptop user, and I have been asked to replace a hard drive that
> appears to be failing (failed confidence tests in the Dell Hardware
> Diagnostics--SMART reports possible impending disk failure). And the
drive
> seems to be failing (slow file access, some blue screen errors, etc.)
>
> I am writing because when I called Dell, the technician said that the hard
> drive was an IBM Cascade 30 GB. When I looked up the drive name in
Windows
> XP Home Device Manager, the drive is identified as IC25N030ATCS04-0 (0's
are
> the digit, not the letter.) On Hitachi's website, this is a Travelstar
40GN
> drive, not IBM, and Hitachi's specs note that the drive is ATA-5. Dell's
> "Configuration as shipped new" reads as follows: HARD DRIVE, 30GB, IDE,
> 2.5" FORM FACTOR, 9.5 MM, IBM-CSD with a part number of 0K727.
>
> I can't open the case up myself because of physical limitations, but I
would
> like to recommend a hard drive that would work for my friend. I have been
> told that any of the Hitachi Travelstars would work. My concern is that
few
> people make ATA-5 drives anymore, and I want to get her something that
will
> likely work the first try. Dell isn't talking--the system is exactly two
> years old and one year out of warranty.
>
> Would any Travelstar model work? Why is there confusion between the
> Hitchachi Travelstar and IBM names. I would like to get good bang for the
> buck, or best compromise among price, speed, features, and reliability.
>
> I would love any input you could offer. Thanks much. She has 256 MB RAM,
> running XP home.
>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 28, 2004 11:30:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.arch.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Or this one for extra space
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?Product... I found
this to be a lot faster than the 4200 rpm that came with my Inspiron. Very
easy to change them on the I8200. The manuals are located on the support
site for taking the PC apart.


--
Thomas M. Goethe


"Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:WtNDc.151080$Gx4.20169@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> All the other advice you've gotten is good except get this one as it'll be
> much faster:
> http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?Product...
>
> "Michael" <please-ask-me@ask.com> wrote in message
> news:lcKDc.1350$lx2.103@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I am not a laptop user, and I have been asked to replace a hard drive
that
> > appears to be failing (failed confidence tests in the Dell Hardware
> > Diagnostics--SMART reports possible impending disk failure). And the
> drive
> > seems to be failing (slow file access, some blue screen errors, etc.)
> >
> > I am writing because when I called Dell, the technician said that the
hard
> > drive was an IBM Cascade 30 GB. When I looked up the drive name in
> Windows
> > XP Home Device Manager, the drive is identified as IC25N030ATCS04-0 (0's
> are
> > the digit, not the letter.) On Hitachi's website, this is a Travelstar
> 40GN
> > drive, not IBM, and Hitachi's specs note that the drive is ATA-5.
Dell's
> > "Configuration as shipped new" reads as follows: HARD DRIVE, 30GB, IDE,
> > 2.5" FORM FACTOR, 9.5 MM, IBM-CSD with a part number of 0K727.
> >
> > I can't open the case up myself because of physical limitations, but I
> would
> > like to recommend a hard drive that would work for my friend. I have
been
> > told that any of the Hitachi Travelstars would work. My concern is that
> few
> > people make ATA-5 drives anymore, and I want to get her something that
> will
> > likely work the first try. Dell isn't talking--the system is exactly
two
> > years old and one year out of warranty.
> >
> > Would any Travelstar model work? Why is there confusion between the
> > Hitchachi Travelstar and IBM names. I would like to get good bang for
the
> > buck, or best compromise among price, speed, features, and reliability.
> >
> > I would love any input you could offer. Thanks much. She has 256 MB
RAM,
> > running XP home.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
June 28, 2004 5:17:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.arch.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Pen,

Death Stars?!?! Sounds a little harsh. Why do you feel this way?

"Pen" <pen34us_nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UtydnZn0YI-96ULdRVn-ig@adelphia.com...
> IBM sold their drive business to Hitachi, hence the
> name confudsion. Travelstars are also know as
> Deathstars.
>
> "Michael" <please-ask-me@ask.com> wrote in message
> news:lcKDc.1350$lx2.103@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I am not a laptop user, and I have been asked to replace a hard
> drive that
> > appears to be failing (failed confidence tests in the Dell
> Hardware
> > Diagnostics--SMART reports possible impending disk failure).
> And the drive
> > seems to be failing (slow file access, some blue screen errors,
> etc.)
> >
> > I am writing because when I called Dell, the technician said
> that the hard
> > drive was an IBM Cascade 30 GB. When I looked up the drive
> name in Windows
> > XP Home Device Manager, the drive is identified as
> IC25N030ATCS04-0 (0's are
> > the digit, not the letter.) On Hitachi's website, this is a
> Travelstar 40GN
> > drive, not IBM, and Hitachi's specs note that the drive is
> ATA-5. Dell's
> > "Configuration as shipped new" reads as follows: HARD DRIVE,
> 30GB, IDE,
> > 2.5" FORM FACTOR, 9.5 MM, IBM-CSD with a part number of 0K727.
> >
> > I can't open the case up myself because of physical
> limitations, but I would
> > like to recommend a hard drive that would work for my friend.
> I have been
> > told that any of the Hitachi Travelstars would work. My
> concern is that few
> > people make ATA-5 drives anymore, and I want to get her
> something that will
> > likely work the first try. Dell isn't talking--the system is
> exactly two
> > years old and one year out of warranty.
> >
> > Would any Travelstar model work? Why is there confusion
> between the
> > Hitchachi Travelstar and IBM names. I would like to get good
> bang for the
> > buck, or best compromise among price, speed, features, and
> reliability.
> >
> > I would love any input you could offer. Thanks much. She has
> 256 MB RAM,
> > running XP home.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 28, 2004 5:17:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.arch.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Michael wrote:

> Pen,
>
> Death Stars?!?! Sounds a little harsh. Why do you feel this way?

He's misinformed. "Deathstar" is a play on "Deskstar", not "Travelstar".
Came about when what appeared to be an unusual number of failures occurred
with the 75GXP series--it's still not clear if there really were more
failures or if it's just that a few very vocal people experienced them.
There's a lawsuit in progress but whether it's going to go anywhere only
time will tell.

> "Pen" <pen34us_nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:UtydnZn0YI-96ULdRVn-ig@adelphia.com...
>> IBM sold their drive business to Hitachi, hence the
>> name confudsion. Travelstars are also know as
>> Deathstars.
>>
>> "Michael" <please-ask-me@ask.com> wrote in message
>> news:lcKDc.1350$lx2.103@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
>> > Hi All,
>> >
>> > I am not a laptop user, and I have been asked to replace a hard
>> drive that
>> > appears to be failing (failed confidence tests in the Dell
>> Hardware
>> > Diagnostics--SMART reports possible impending disk failure).
>> And the drive
>> > seems to be failing (slow file access, some blue screen errors,
>> etc.)
>> >
>> > I am writing because when I called Dell, the technician said
>> that the hard
>> > drive was an IBM Cascade 30 GB. When I looked up the drive
>> name in Windows
>> > XP Home Device Manager, the drive is identified as
>> IC25N030ATCS04-0 (0's are
>> > the digit, not the letter.) On Hitachi's website, this is a
>> Travelstar 40GN
>> > drive, not IBM, and Hitachi's specs note that the drive is
>> ATA-5. Dell's
>> > "Configuration as shipped new" reads as follows: HARD DRIVE,
>> 30GB, IDE,
>> > 2.5" FORM FACTOR, 9.5 MM, IBM-CSD with a part number of 0K727.
>> >
>> > I can't open the case up myself because of physical
>> limitations, but I would
>> > like to recommend a hard drive that would work for my friend.
>> I have been
>> > told that any of the Hitachi Travelstars would work. My
>> concern is that few
>> > people make ATA-5 drives anymore, and I want to get her
>> something that will
>> > likely work the first try. Dell isn't talking--the system is
>> exactly two
>> > years old and one year out of warranty.
>> >
>> > Would any Travelstar model work? Why is there confusion
>> between the
>> > Hitchachi Travelstar and IBM names. I would like to get good
>> bang for the
>> > buck, or best compromise among price, speed, features, and
>> reliability.
>> >
>> > I would love any input you could offer. Thanks much. She has
>> 256 MB RAM,
>> > running XP home.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 28, 2004 5:46:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>Michael wrote:
>
>> Pen,
>>
>> Death Stars?!?! Sounds a little harsh. Why do you feel this way?
>
>He's misinformed. "Deathstar" is a play on "Deskstar", not "Travelstar".
>Came about when what appeared to be an unusual number of failures occurred
>with the 75GXP series--it's still not clear if there really were more
>failures or if it's just that a few very vocal people experienced them.
>There's a lawsuit in progress but whether it's going to go anywhere only
>time will tell.

There is no well known and reputable website nor news source that
confirms any kind of problem with IBM Deskstar HDs. It's just a few
web wackos making bogus claims.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 28, 2004 9:57:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.arch.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <cbph2e0ea7@news2.newsguy.com>, J. Clarke <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Michael wrote:
>
>> Pen,
>>
>> Death Stars?!?! Sounds a little harsh. Why do you feel this way?
>
> He's misinformed. "Deathstar" is a play on "Deskstar", not "Travelstar".
> Came about when what appeared to be an unusual number of failures occurred
> with the 75GXP series--it's still not clear if there really were more
> failures or if it's just that a few very vocal people experienced them.
> There's a lawsuit in progress but whether it's going to go anywhere only
> time will tell.

They were indeed very real failures due to design. They fixed these via
later firmware revs which tweaked certain parameters (vague
recollection). It was so bad for a while that dealers actually pulled
the 75GXP from their shelves and sold the 60GXP in its place.

IBM fixed these 75GXP issues a few years ago, well before they sold the
disk storage division to Hitachi... but you know how people are -- burnt
badly once, twice shy. Can't say I blame them. So the 75GXP failures (as
with any spectacular failure) has a rather long shelf-life, apparently. :) 

Failure modes with hard drives are, in general, not unusual... that's
why firmware upgrades for server class drives are so critical.

For instance, with a new drive array (not 75GXPs)... the vendor called
us and requested we upgrade to latest firmware because it adjusted key
thresholds for bad blocks before onboard controller considered a drive
to be failed -- threshold was previously too (unrealistically) high.

Also, the PFA (predictive failure analysis) on the drives were too
twitchy and often led to large numbers of false positive ( = RMA
returns) so they disabled PFA entirely and used other means to more
accurately monitor for developing health issues.

The 75GXP was just infamous because its failure mode happened far too
soon and essentially led to loss of all data on the drive. If you have a
drive that does _that_ even once, you're left with an extremely dark
impression of the manufacturer and their engineers, and often folks vows
to never buy anything from them again if they experience that. I still
remember the Zip Drive's 'click of death'.

-Dan
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 28, 2004 9:57:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.arch.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> wrote:

>J. Clarke <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> Michael wrote:
>>
>>> Pen,
>>>
>>> Death Stars?!?! Sounds a little harsh. Why do you feel this way?
>>
>> He's misinformed. "Deathstar" is a play on "Deskstar", not "Travelstar".
>> Came about when what appeared to be an unusual number of failures occurred
>> with the 75GXP series--it's still not clear if there really were more
>> failures or if it's just that a few very vocal people experienced them.
>> There's a lawsuit in progress but whether it's going to go anywhere only
>> time will tell.
>
>They were indeed very real failures due to design. They fixed these via
>later firmware revs which tweaked certain parameters (vague
>recollection). It was so bad for a while that dealers actually pulled
>the 75GXP from their shelves and sold the 60GXP in its place.

There are generally no problems with the Deskstar 75GXP. There are a
few attempting a smear campaign.

>IBM fixed these 75GXP issues a few years ago, well before they sold the
>disk storage division to Hitachi... but you know how people are -- burnt
>badly once, twice shy. Can't say I blame them. So the 75GXP failures (as
>with any spectacular failure) has a rather long shelf-life, apparently. :) 

Utter nonsense. The 75GXP is very relaible and a few wackos have a
posting history of such anti-IBM slime like you.

>Failure modes with hard drives are, in general, not unusual... that's
>why firmware upgrades for server class drives are so critical.

All possible and could even explain a few multidrive failure reports.
BUT othing supports an kind of mass failures that the wackos are
claiming. Basically the 75GXP and 60GXP are fast and reliable HDs and
there isn't the slightest evidence to suggest otherwise.

>For instance, with a new drive array (not 75GXPs)... the vendor called
>us and requested we upgrade to latest firmware because it adjusted key
>thresholds for bad blocks before onboard controller considered a drive
>to be failed -- threshold was previously too (unrealistically) high.

It'll be fine and have few problems just like the 75GXP.

>Also, the PFA (predictive failure analysis) on the drives were too
>twitchy and often led to large numbers of false positive ( = RMA
>returns) so they disabled PFA entirely and used other means to more
>accurately monitor for developing health issues.

The 75GXP and now 60GXP are reliable and fast drives and there is NO
reputable information suggesting otherwise.

>The 75GXP was just infamous because its failure mode happened far too
>soon and essentially led to loss of all data on the drive. If you have a
>drive that does _that_ even once, you're left with an extremely dark
>impression of the manufacturer and their engineers, and often folks vows
>to never buy anything from them again if they experience that. I still
>remember the Zip Drive's 'click of death'.

And like other members of the slime cult, you'd like to make the
number of IBM failures look much larger than it is. Get a life.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 29, 2004 1:52:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.arch.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <otp0e05082j8n7eog9f3vonfj71kpup1jv@4ax.com>, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>IBM fixed these 75GXP issues a few years ago, well before they sold the
>>disk storage division to Hitachi... but you know how people are -- burnt
>>badly once, twice shy. Can't say I blame them. So the 75GXP failures (as
>>with any spectacular failure) has a rather long shelf-life, apparently. :) 
>
> Utter nonsense. The 75GXP is very relaible and a few wackos have a
> posting history of such anti-IBM slime like you.

That's pretty funny because I've got a fixed 75GXP in my main
workstation (where I'm composing this), and the servers that I run are
49% IBM-based... figure about 500-600 IBM drives? My co-workers also
sometimes accuse me of being way too pro-IBM. ;) 

My 75GXP drive in this workstation:

# smartctl -P show /dev/hda
smartctl version 5.26 Copyright (C) 2002-3 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

Drive found in smartmontools Database. Drive identity strings:
MODEL: IBM-DTLA-307075
FIRMWARE: TXAOA50C

For the server class HDs that I have, the longevity is about the same
amongst the various manufacturers I have, IBM included -- typically
about 5-6 years for the 10K RPM server class SCSI drives that I have...
but we weren't discussing *these*.

You ever looked at the 75GXP firmware fix list? Any of them look like
direct responses to the observed issues?

I don't think dealers would be pulling a product off their shelves (at
the time) for a non-existent phantom issue. It's not a bad product per
se, just had real teething problems for a while... eventually the issue
got straightened out. I've got no issues in buying new 75GXPs today, as
you can see from the fact that I have one in this machine.

Before IBM sold the disk business to Hitachi, they would come out with
frequent revisions to disk firmware -- I'd apply updates to the server
class drives that I had. I didn't take it to be a negative issue; the
problems they fixed were mostly minor, or the occasional major one that
wasn't easy to trigger in normal conditions. The 75GXP issue was
different in that it was apparently pretty easily triggered for many.

IBM makes pretty good stuff, but they're not immune to the occasional
goof. That's just a fact of life in engineering, for most any consumer
product.

I have no agenda, other than to point out my honest recollections. I'm
too busy running several hundred servers and supporting tens of
thousands of users to have time for silly agendas, sorry.

I also have no affilitation with any storage vendor other than as a
customer.

-Dan
!