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Installing UDMA IDE cable backwards with HDD in middle!

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August 17, 2004 11:45:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Apologies, I know this has come up before but can't find the posts.

Can a UDMA Ampthenol IDE cable be mounted backwards? I.E. the end marked
'Master' used in the motherboard. Then to add to the question, if that
works, can the Master drive be connected to the middle connector instead of
the end (marked system). All cables these days are marked and colour coded,
which makes you think they are wired to only work one way...
Reason? The usual thing - even with a 24" cable there is no way I can
connect my master hard drive to the slave optical - they're simply too far
apart for the distance between the master and slave plugs (it's actually the
same on an 18" or 24") - if I keep the hard drive in the 3.5" caddy. Yes, I
could move the HDD into a 5 1/4 bay and use a caddy or 3.5-51/4 adaptors,
but then I have a cooling issue I'll need to worry about, and I already have
two intake fans blowing over the hard drive holder..
TIA!
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 18, 2004 1:04:43 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously GTS <gts123NOSPAM@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Apologies, I know this has come up before but can't find the posts.

> Can a UDMA Ampthenol IDE cable be mounted backwards? I.E. the end marked
> 'Master' used in the motherboard. Then to add to the question, if that
> works, can the Master drive be connected to the middle connector instead of
> the end (marked system). All cables these days are marked and colour coded,
> which makes you think they are wired to only work one way...
> Reason? The usual thing - even with a 24" cable there is no way I can
> connect my master hard drive to the slave optical - they're simply too far
> apart for the distance between the master and slave plugs (it's actually the
> same on an 18" or 24") - if I keep the hard drive in the 3.5" caddy. Yes, I
> could move the HDD into a 5 1/4 bay and use a caddy or 3.5-51/4 adaptors,
> but then I have a cooling issue I'll need to worry about, and I already have
> two intake fans blowing over the hard drive holder..
> TIA!


I don't know about backwards. But if you do jumper selection on
the drives for matser and slave, their position can be exchanged
without effect on their (logical) behaviour.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 18, 2004 1:36:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

GTS wrote:
> Apologies, I know this has come up before but can't find the posts.
>
> Can a UDMA Ampthenol IDE cable be mounted backwards? I.E. the end
> marked 'Master' used in the motherboard.

Yes, no problem.

> Then to add to the question, if that works, can the Master drive be
connected
> to the middle connector instead of the end (marked system).

If you only have one device/drive, make sure its on the end of the cable,
to prevent signal ringing. I.e. leave the middle connector empy

Even this wouldn't stop a system running though.

> All cables these days are marked and colour coded, which makes you
> think they are wired to only work one way...

All 80 conductor cables support cable select, in which the drives
decide which is master/slave depending on the position on the cable.

If you've jumpered the drives as master/slave as normal, then
it doesn't matter which order you connect them up in.

--
Mike
Related resources
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 18, 2004 2:33:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Physically? Yes. Will it work properly 100% of the time? No. The distance
presented on the ide cable between slave and master, and the fact that
master should be at the end of the cable are functions of ATA.
"GTS" <gts123NOSPAM@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:0ftUc.225$nI5.186@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> Apologies, I know this has come up before but can't find the posts.
>
> Can a UDMA Ampthenol IDE cable be mounted backwards? I.E. the end marked
> 'Master' used in the motherboard. Then to add to the question, if that
> works, can the Master drive be connected to the middle connector instead
of
> the end (marked system). All cables these days are marked and colour
coded,
> which makes you think they are wired to only work one way...
> Reason? The usual thing - even with a 24" cable there is no way I can
> connect my master hard drive to the slave optical - they're simply too far
> apart for the distance between the master and slave plugs (it's actually
the
> same on an 18" or 24") - if I keep the hard drive in the 3.5" caddy. Yes,
I
> could move the HDD into a 5 1/4 bay and use a caddy or 3.5-51/4 adaptors,
> but then I have a cooling issue I'll need to worry about, and I already
have
> two intake fans blowing over the hard drive holder..
> TIA!
>
>
>
August 18, 2004 3:29:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Mike Redrobe wrote:

> GTS wrote:
>
>>Apologies, I know this has come up before but can't find the posts.
>>
>>Can a UDMA Ampthenol IDE cable be mounted backwards? I.E. the end
>>marked 'Master' used in the motherboard.
>
>
> Yes, no problem.

I would have said, "No! Problem!"

>
>
>>Then to add to the question, if that works, can the Master drive be
>
> connected
>
>>to the middle connector instead of the end (marked system).
>
>
> If you only have one device/drive, make sure its on the end of the cable,
> to prevent signal ringing. I.e. leave the middle connector empy
>
> Even this wouldn't stop a system running though.
>
>
>>All cables these days are marked and colour coded, which makes you
>>think they are wired to only work one way...
>
>
> All 80 conductor cables support cable select, in which the drives
> decide which is master/slave depending on the position on the cable.
>
> If you've jumpered the drives as master/slave as normal, then

That was "normal" years ago, but I doubt it is now. Every retail
drive I've bought lately has come jumpered out of the box as CS.

> it doesn't matter which order you connect them up in.
>
> --
> Mike
>
>


--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 18, 2004 4:05:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"GTS" <gts123NOSPAM@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:0ftUc.225$nI5.186@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net
> Apologies, I know this has come up before but can't find the posts.
>
> Can a UDMA Ampthenol IDE cable be mounted backwards? I.E. the end marked
> 'Master' used in the motherboard.

That will limit UDMA mode to UDMA33 although the Pdiag line on the
drive in the middle may cause a higher mode to be possible if it is not
ATA compliant.
It will short the Pdiag line on the drive at the end.
It may cause that drive to not work or the slave drive not detected.

> Then to add to the question, if that works, can the Master drive be
> connected to the middle connector instead of the end (marked system).

That is always possible.

> All cables these days are marked and colour coded,
> which makes you think they are wired to only work one way...

True for UDMA cables, they are keyed and need to be connected in a
very specific way.

> Reason? The usual thing - even with a 24" cable there is no way I can
> connect my master hard drive to the slave optical - they're simply too far
> apart for the distance between the master and slave plugs (it's actually the
> same on an 18" or 24") - if I keep the hard drive in the 3.5" caddy. Yes, I
> could move the HDD into a 5 1/4 bay and use a caddy or 3.5-51/4 adaptors,
> but then I have a cooling issue I'll need to worry about, and I already have
> two intake fans blowing over the hard drive holder..

Use a 40-wire cable instead of 80-wire.
Still 30MB/s but none of the other problems

> TIA!
August 18, 2004 4:33:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Mike Redrobe" <mike@redrobe.com> wrote in message
news:BTuUc.2161$pI2.26140705@news-text.cableinet.net...
> GTS wrote:
> > Apologies, I know this has come up before but can't find the posts.
> >
> > Can a UDMA Ampthenol IDE cable be mounted backwards? I.E. the end
> > marked 'Master' used in the motherboard.
>
> Yes, no problem.
>
> > Then to add to the question, if that works, can the Master drive be
> connected
> > to the middle connector instead of the end (marked system).
>
> If you only have one device/drive, make sure its on the end of the cable,
> to prevent signal ringing. I.e. leave the middle connector empy
>
> Even this wouldn't stop a system running though.
>
> > All cables these days are marked and colour coded, which makes you
> > think they are wired to only work one way...
>
> All 80 conductor cables support cable select, in which the drives
> decide which is master/slave depending on the position on the cable.
>
> If you've jumpered the drives as master/slave as normal, then
> it doesn't matter which order you connect them up in.
>
> --
> Mike
Thanks for the info. I have installed the master drive in the middle, and
the optical at the end, but managed to do this without having to have the
cable reversed in the end. All is working as it should, and the HDD has not
lost any speed
Ta
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 18, 2004 12:24:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

CJT wrote:
> Mike Redrobe wrote:
>> All 80 conductor cables support cable select, in which the drives
>> decide which is master/slave depending on the position on the cable.
>>
>> If you've jumpered the drives as master/slave as normal, then
>
> That was "normal" years ago, but I doubt it is now. Every retail
> drive I've bought lately has come jumpered out of the box as CS.

You think more installations are running cable select than
jumpered master/slave ?

Whatever state the drive arrives in, most people set it to master or
slave when installing simply because CS is less widely known about,

CS needs the cables to support it - it won't work with a "normal"
40 conductor cable ( all 80conductor cables support it though).

--
Mike
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 18, 2004 1:54:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Mike Redrobe" <mike@redrobe.com> wrote:

>> That was "normal" years ago, but I doubt it is now. Every retail
>> drive I've bought lately has come jumpered out of the box as CS.
>
>You think more installations are running cable select than
>jumpered master/slave ?
>
>Whatever state the drive arrives in, most people set it to master or
>slave when installing simply because CS is less widely known about,

I know that I just jumped on the CS bandwagon about a year ago, after
many years of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" fooling around with
master and slave settings. CS is great.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 18, 2004 2:46:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Mike Redrobe wrote:

> CJT wrote:
>> Mike Redrobe wrote:
>>> All 80 conductor cables support cable select, in which the drives
>>> decide which is master/slave depending on the position on the cable.
>>>
>>> If you've jumpered the drives as master/slave as normal, then
>>
>> That was "normal" years ago, but I doubt it is now. Every retail
>> drive I've bought lately has come jumpered out of the box as CS.
>
> You think more installations are running cable select than
> jumpered master/slave ?
>
> Whatever state the drive arrives in, most people set it to master or
> slave when installing simply because CS is less widely known about,
>
> CS needs the cables to support it - it won't work with a "normal"
> 40 conductor cable ( all 80conductor cables support it though).

Well, sort of. It actually works fine with a 40 conductor cable on which
the correct wire is cut in the right place, and I've encountered 80
conductor cables that did _not_ have that cut (verified at the connector).

If you can't see the hole then don't assume that it's a cable-select cable
until you have checked at the connectors.
>
> --
> Mike

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
August 18, 2004 5:03:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Mike Redrobe wrote:

> CJT wrote:
>
>>Mike Redrobe wrote:
>>
>>>All 80 conductor cables support cable select, in which the drives
>>>decide which is master/slave depending on the position on the cable.
>>>
>>>If you've jumpered the drives as master/slave as normal, then
>>
>>That was "normal" years ago, but I doubt it is now. Every retail
>>drive I've bought lately has come jumpered out of the box as CS.
>
>
> You think more installations are running cable select than
> jumpered master/slave ?

Certainly I think more NEW installations are.

>
> Whatever state the drive arrives in, most people set it to master or
> slave when installing simply because CS is less widely known about,

I think the manufacturers set the default to what they expect most
people to want.
>
> CS needs the cables to support it - it won't work with a "normal"
> 40 conductor cable ( all 80conductor cables support it though).

How many new installations use 40 conductor cables (thereby losing
much of the speed the drives are capable of)?

>
> --
> Mike
>
>


--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 18, 2004 7:19:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"CJT" <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:412294E0.1020006@prodigy.net...
> Mike Redrobe wrote:
>
> > GTS wrote:
> >
> >>Apologies, I know this has come up before but can't find the posts.
> >>
> >>Can a UDMA Ampthenol IDE cable be mounted backwards? I.E. the end
> >>marked 'Master' used in the motherboard.
> >
> >
> > Yes, no problem.
>
> I would have said, "No! Problem!"

And you would have been correct.

>
> >
> >
> >>Then to add to the question, if that works, can the Master drive be
> > >connected to the middle connector instead of the end (marked system).
> >
> >
> > If you only have one device/drive, make sure its on the end of the cable,
> > to prevent signal ringing. I.e. leave the middle connector empy
> >
> > Even this wouldn't stop a system running though.
> >
> >
> >>All cables these days are marked and colour coded, which makes you
> >>think they are wired to only work one way...
> >
> >
> > All 80 conductor cables support cable select, in which the drives
> > decide which is master/slave depending on the position on the cable.
> >
> > If you've jumpered the drives as master/slave as normal, then
>
> That was "normal" years ago, but I doubt it is now.
> Every retail drive I've bought lately has come jumpered out of the box as CS.

So?

>
> > it doesn't matter which order you connect them up in.
> >
> > --
> > Mike
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
> minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 18, 2004 10:37:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

J. Clarke wrote:
> Mike Redrobe wrote:
>> CS needs the cables to support it - it won't work with a "normal"
>> 40 conductor cable
>
> Well, sort of. It actually works fine with a 40 conductor cable on
> which the correct wire is cut in the right place,

Its no longer a "normal" 40 conductor cable after its been cut, is it?

> and I've encountered 80 conductor cables that did _not_ have that cut
> (verified at the connector).
> If you can't see the hole then don't assume that it's a cable-select
> cable until you have checked at the connectors.

So much for simplicity...

--
Mike
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 19, 2004 1:34:25 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:cfvqu612l3j@news2.newsguy.com...
> Mike Redrobe wrote:
>
> > CJT wrote:
> >> Mike Redrobe wrote:
> >>> All 80 conductor cables support cable select, in which the drives
> >>> decide which is master/slave depending on the position on the cable.
> >>>
> >>> If you've jumpered the drives as master/slave as normal, then
> >>
> >> That was "normal" years ago, but I doubt it is now. Every retail
> >> drive I've bought lately has come jumpered out of the box as CS.
> >
> > You think more installations are running cable select than
> > jumpered master/slave ?
> >
> > Whatever state the drive arrives in, most people set it to master or
> > slave when installing simply because CS is less widely known about,
> >
> > CS needs the cables to support it - it won't work with a "normal"
> > 40 conductor cable ( all 80conductor cables support it though).
>
> Well, sort of. It actually works fine with a 40 conductor cable on which
> the correct wire is cut in the right place, and I've encountered 80
> conductor cables that did _not_ have that cut (verified at the connector).
>
> If you can't see the hole then don't assume that it's a cable-select cable
> until you have checked at the connectors.

Some 80 wire ide ribbon cables use an internal terminator, not visible to
the naked eye. Don't rely on seeing a "cut".

> >
> > --
> > Mike
>
> --
> --John
> Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 19, 2004 3:07:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Lil' Dave wrote:

> "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:cfvqu612l3j@news2.newsguy.com...
>> Mike Redrobe wrote:
>>
>> > CJT wrote:
>> >> Mike Redrobe wrote:
>> >>> All 80 conductor cables support cable select, in which the drives
>> >>> decide which is master/slave depending on the position on the cable.
>> >>>
>> >>> If you've jumpered the drives as master/slave as normal, then
>> >>
>> >> That was "normal" years ago, but I doubt it is now. Every retail
>> >> drive I've bought lately has come jumpered out of the box as CS.
>> >
>> > You think more installations are running cable select than
>> > jumpered master/slave ?
>> >
>> > Whatever state the drive arrives in, most people set it to master or
>> > slave when installing simply because CS is less widely known about,
>> >
>> > CS needs the cables to support it - it won't work with a "normal"
>> > 40 conductor cable ( all 80conductor cables support it though).
>>
>> Well, sort of. It actually works fine with a 40 conductor cable on which
>> the correct wire is cut in the right place, and I've encountered 80
>> conductor cables that did _not_ have that cut (verified at the
>> connector).
>>
>> If you can't see the hole then don't assume that it's a cable-select
>> cable until you have checked at the connectors.
>
> Some 80 wire ide ribbon cables use an internal terminator, not visible to
> the naked eye. Don't rely on seeing a "cut".

Actually, the presence of the cut is quite reliable as an indicator--if the
cable has it then it's a cable select cable. The _absence_ of a cut is
less so. If it doesn't have it then it may still be one but you can't
determine that by looking at it, you have to test it with a continuity
checker or meter.
>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Mike
>>
>> --
>> --John
>> Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
>> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 19, 2004 5:06:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:cfvqu612l3j@news2.newsguy.com
> Mike Redrobe wrote:
>
> > CJT wrote:
> > > Mike Redrobe wrote:
> > > > All 80 conductor cables support cable select, in which the drives
> > > > decide which is master/slave depending on the position on the cable.
> > > >
> > > > If you've jumpered the drives as master/slave as normal, then
> > >
> > > That was "normal" years ago, but I doubt it is now. Every retail
> > > drive I've bought lately has come jumpered out of the box as CS.
> >
> > You think more installations are running cable select than
> > jumpered master/slave ?
> >
> > Whatever state the drive arrives in, most people set it to master or
> > slave when installing simply because CS is less widely known about,
> >
> > CS needs the cables to support it - it won't work with a "normal"
> > 40 conductor cable ( all 80conductor cables support it though).
>
> Well, sort of. It actually works fine with a 40 conductor cable on which
> the correct wire is cut in the right place, and I've encountered 80
> conductor cables that did _not_ have that cut (verified at the connector).
>
> If you can't see the hole then don't assume that it's a cable-select cable
> until you have checked at the connectors.

80-conductor cables never have holes for CS, they have a missing or an
unconnected pin in the middle connector. Some 80-conductor cables do
have a hole (wire cut) for seperating CBLID and PDIAG though. Others
don't and the hostside connector has the seperation inside the connector.

> >
> > --
> > Mike
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 19, 2004 5:59:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <BTuUc.2161$pI2.26140705@news-text.cableinet.net>, Mike
Redrobe <mike@redrobe.com> writes

>> Can a UDMA Ampthenol IDE cable be mounted backwards? I.E. the end
>> marked 'Master' used in the motherboard.
>
>Yes, no problem.

I'm not so sure. The blue (motherboard) connector grounds one of the
pins to indicate to the controller that an 80-wire cable is fitted. If
the cable is reversed, quite apart from the cable select issues already
mentioned, the controller may think a 40-wire cable is fitted and reduce
data transfers to ATA33.

--
Rarely do people communicate; they just take turns talking.
(source unknown)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 19, 2004 10:51:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:cg16se02mno@news1.newsguy.com...
> Lil' Dave wrote:
>
> > "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:cfvqu612l3j@news2.newsguy.com...
> >> Mike Redrobe wrote:
> >>
> >> > CJT wrote:
> >> >> Mike Redrobe wrote:
> >> >>> All 80 conductor cables support cable select, in which the drives
> >> >>> decide which is master/slave depending on the position on the
cable.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If you've jumpered the drives as master/slave as normal, then
> >> >>
> >> >> That was "normal" years ago, but I doubt it is now. Every retail
> >> >> drive I've bought lately has come jumpered out of the box as CS.
> >> >
> >> > You think more installations are running cable select than
> >> > jumpered master/slave ?
> >> >
> >> > Whatever state the drive arrives in, most people set it to master or
> >> > slave when installing simply because CS is less widely known about,
> >> >
> >> > CS needs the cables to support it - it won't work with a "normal"
> >> > 40 conductor cable ( all 80conductor cables support it though).
> >>
> >> Well, sort of. It actually works fine with a 40 conductor cable on
which
> >> the correct wire is cut in the right place, and I've encountered 80
> >> conductor cables that did _not_ have that cut (verified at the
> >> connector).
> >>
> >> If you can't see the hole then don't assume that it's a cable-select
> >> cable until you have checked at the connectors.
> >
> > Some 80 wire ide ribbon cables use an internal terminator, not visible
to
> > the naked eye. Don't rely on seeing a "cut".
>
> Actually, the presence of the cut is quite reliable as an indicator--if
the
> cable has it then it's a cable select cable. The _absence_ of a cut is
> less so. If it doesn't have it then it may still be one but you can't
> determine that by looking at it, you have to test it with a continuity
> checker or meter.

Don't remember saying not seeing a cut is not reliable. Read again.
> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Mike
> >>
> >> --
> >> --John
> >> Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
> >> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
>
> --
> --John
> Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
August 21, 2004 12:27:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
news:yIvUc.723$2L3.667@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Physically? Yes. Will it work properly 100% of the time? No. The
distance
> presented on the ide cable between slave and master, and the fact that
> master should be at the end of the cable are functions of ATA.

Well as I posted I managed to do it without reversing the cable. However, I
do have the master drive in the middle and the slave at the end. All works
as before, Sandra benchmarks the master drive well above similar ATA-100 8mb
buffer models in the comparison list - so I was curious about your statement
that 'master should be at the end of the cable are functions of ATA.
When I first posted the original question, I did have an inkling that the
master / slave markings on the cable were only for cable select purposes?
Certainly in pre-UDMA days I think it was always the users choice as to
where the master and slave drives went, so long as the jumpers were set
correctly? I can't remember it being an issue in the past...
August 21, 2004 12:27:51 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

GTS wrote:

> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> news:yIvUc.723$2L3.667@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
>>Physically? Yes. Will it work properly 100% of the time? No. The
>
> distance
>
>>presented on the ide cable between slave and master, and the fact that
>>master should be at the end of the cable are functions of ATA.
>
>
> Well as I posted I managed to do it without reversing the cable. However, I
> do have the master drive in the middle and the slave at the end. All works
> as before, Sandra benchmarks the master drive well above similar ATA-100 8mb
> buffer models in the comparison list - so I was curious about your statement
> that 'master should be at the end of the cable are functions of ATA.
> When I first posted the original question, I did have an inkling that the
> master / slave markings on the cable were only for cable select purposes?

I think that's true, but why not just use CS and not worry about it?

> Certainly in pre-UDMA days I think it was always the users choice as to
> where the master and slave drives went, so long as the jumpers were set
> correctly? I can't remember it being an issue in the past...
>
>
>


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The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.
August 21, 2004 12:30:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"GTS" <gts123NOSPAM@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:a9tVc.320$3j2.205@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> news:yIvUc.723$2L3.667@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > Physically? Yes. Will it work properly 100% of the time? No. The
> distance
> > presented on the ide cable between slave and master, and the fact that
> > master should be at the end of the cable are functions of ATA.
>
> Well as I posted I managed to do it without reversing the cable. However,
I
> do have the master drive in the middle and the slave at the end. All works
> as before, Sandra benchmarks the master drive well above similar ATA-100
8mb
> buffer models in the comparison list - so I was curious about your
statement
> that 'master should be at the end of the cable are functions of ATA.
> When I first posted the original question, I did have an inkling that the
> master / slave markings on the cable were only for cable select purposes?
> Certainly in pre-UDMA days I think it was always the users choice as to
> where the master and slave drives went, so long as the jumpers were set
> correctly? I can't remember it being an issue in the past...
>
Just an afterthought - it seems much more gracefull in a standard case to
have the IDE cable from mobo-to HDD-to Optical, as the alternative is to
have the cable doubling back from the optical to the HDD, which is just
messy!
August 21, 2004 12:30:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

GTS wrote:

> "GTS" <gts123NOSPAM@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:a9tVc.320$3j2.205@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>
>>"Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
>>news:yIvUc.723$2L3.667@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>
>>>Physically? Yes. Will it work properly 100% of the time? No. The
>>
>>distance
>>
>>>presented on the ide cable between slave and master, and the fact that
>>>master should be at the end of the cable are functions of ATA.
>>
>>Well as I posted I managed to do it without reversing the cable. However,
>
> I
>
>>do have the master drive in the middle and the slave at the end. All works
>>as before, Sandra benchmarks the master drive well above similar ATA-100
>
> 8mb
>
>>buffer models in the comparison list - so I was curious about your
>
> statement
>
>>that 'master should be at the end of the cable are functions of ATA.
>>When I first posted the original question, I did have an inkling that the
>>master / slave markings on the cable were only for cable select purposes?
>>Certainly in pre-UDMA days I think it was always the users choice as to
>>where the master and slave drives went, so long as the jumpers were set
>>correctly? I can't remember it being an issue in the past...
>>
>
> Just an afterthought - it seems much more gracefull in a standard case to
> have the IDE cable from mobo-to HDD-to Optical, as the alternative is to
> have the cable doubling back from the optical to the HDD, which is just
> messy!
>
>
So let the optical drive be the master and be happy.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 16, 2009 2:49:44 PM

Quote:
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <BTuUc.2161$pI2.26140705@news-text.cableinet.net>, Mike
Redrobe <mike@redrobe.com> writes

>> Can a UDMA Ampthenol IDE cable be mounted backwards? I.E. the end
>> marked 'Master' used in the motherboard.
>
>Yes, no problem.

I'm not so sure. The blue (motherboard) connector grounds one of the
pins to indicate to the controller that an 80-wire cable is fitted. If
the cable is reversed, quite apart from the cable select issues already
mentioned, the controller may think a 40-wire cable is fitted and reduce
data transfers to ATA33.

--
Rarely do people communicate; they just take turns talking.
(source unknown)


I had the problem of absolutely everything running way too slowly considering the motherboard I got. I also had the cable in backwards so that I could physically get both the cd drive and the hard drive connected. I did this because I saw so many people online saying it wouldn't be a problem as long as I had the master/slave setting set properly. The guy I quoted is definitely correct. I switched the cable to the proper orientation (blue connector to blue connector *hits self over head*) and everything runs perfectly smoothly now. I'll just have to try to move stuff around to get the cd drive connected too, or just find another cable.
a c 328 G Storage
December 16, 2009 5:48:29 PM

I had the situation in which the middle connector was in the wrong place and it would not fit my hardware layout. The solution, with some patience, was to move the connector. It was clear I could remove the back of the connector (had to release a couple of springy plastic clips), exposing the ribbon cable just laid into the back edge of the front part of the connector, with all its wires pushed into contact with the connector's pin backs. Basically, the interior end of each of the 80 pins was a small U-shape so that the respective wire could be pushed into the U, and it would grab the wire and make contact. It was set up so that if you carefully pushed the ribbon cable against the 80 U-shaped pin back ends, the ribbon cable insulation plastic would be pierced by the U-shapes and contact / grab each wire.

So, using a tiny screwdriver I carefully lifted the ribbon cable out of the back of the connector and repositioned the connector where I needed it. Then using two such screwdrivers, I carefully went across the width of the ribbon cable one wire at a time, one screwdriver tip on the plastic on each side of a wire, and pushed it down to force it into the open U. When all was re-connected I replaced the connector back piece to lock it into place and voila - a modded ribbon cable with the middle connector mating up to the drive it needed to reach.
!