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Advisable to warm up HDD before formatting?

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Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 18, 2004 7:44:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and let
the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before I
format it?

I have heard there is something called "thermal recalibration" in a HDD but
I wonder if it is far better to let the drive warm up to a stable
temperature.

If warming up the HDD is not being too fussy then how do I ensure the blank
drive keeps spinning because I believe that the drive will probably stop
spinning after a period of time. Is this spindown period set in the drive,
the BIOS or the operating system (I am using XP)?

BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting a load on
them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a new HDD by moving
its actuator arm?
September 18, 2004 7:44:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

what's with all this cross posting lately?

There is no need to do anything to a HD before starting to prepare it
for formatting other than fdisk or maxblast or WD/IBM HD tools. after
the partitions are done format it.

"Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC
and let
> the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before
I
> format it?
>
> I have heard there is something called "thermal recalibration" in a
HDD but
> I wonder if it is far better to let the drive warm up to a stable
> temperature.
>
> If warming up the HDD is not being too fussy then how do I ensure
the blank
> drive keeps spinning because I believe that the drive will probably
stop
> spinning after a period of time. Is this spindown period set in the
drive,
> the BIOS or the operating system (I am using XP)?
>
> BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting a
load on
> them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a new HDD by
moving
> its actuator arm?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 18, 2004 7:44:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

As JAD said, it is not necessary to "warm up" the drive. The critical
information, the actual track positions, have already been placed on the
drive at the factory when they do a low level format of the drive.

The partition and high level format of the drive that you do in preparing it
for use has no effect on the low level format done at the factory. If it
did happen, the low level format would be the one affected by thermal
problems.


"Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and let
> the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before I
> format it?
>
> I have heard there is something called "thermal recalibration" in a HDD
but
> I wonder if it is far better to let the drive warm up to a stable
> temperature.
>
> If warming up the HDD is not being too fussy then how do I ensure the
blank
> drive keeps spinning because I believe that the drive will probably stop
> spinning after a period of time. Is this spindown period set in the
drive,
> the BIOS or the operating system (I am using XP)?
>
> BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting a load
on
> them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a new HDD by
moving
> its actuator arm?
Related resources
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 18, 2004 7:44:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

In article <9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4>, sorry@no.email.please
says...
> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and let
> the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before I
> format it?
>
> I have heard there is something called "thermal recalibration" in a HDD but
> I wonder if it is far better to let the drive warm up to a stable
> temperature.
>
> If warming up the HDD is not being too fussy then how do I ensure the blank
> drive keeps spinning because I believe that the drive will probably stop
> spinning after a period of time. Is this spindown period set in the drive,
> the BIOS or the operating system (I am using XP)?
>
> BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting a load on
> them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a new HDD by moving
> its actuator arm?

Unless you are formatting an ancient physically positioned drive, like
old sub-40M drives, heat shouldn't be an issue. Modern drives have
positioning information embedded with the data. It shouldn't be affected
by heat or position, except possibly under extreme conditions.

--
If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before replying!
All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the
law!!
http://home.att.net/~andyross
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 18, 2004 7:44:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Sandee wrote:
> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC
> and
> let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up
> before I format it?
>

No, there's absolutely no need for "pre-heating" a hard drive.
And how would you make it spin, anyway? It'll have no contents, and
noting to do.

>
> BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting a
> load on them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a
> new
> HDD by moving its actuator arm?

Never heard of one, and can't imagine there ever having been a
need for anyone to develop such a utility.

--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having
both at once. - RAH
September 18, 2004 7:44:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Never heard of one, and can't imagine there ever having been a
> need for anyone to develop such a utility.

remember the old 'park' the head before you moved the machine dos
utility?




"Bruce Chambers" <bruce_a_chambers@h0tmail.com> wrote in message
news:o QzJSWZnEHA.2096@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Sandee wrote:
> > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC
> > and
> > let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up
> > before I format it?
> >
>
> No, there's absolutely no need for "pre-heating" a hard drive.
> And how would you make it spin, anyway? It'll have no contents, and
> noting to do.
>
> >
> > BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting
a
> > load on them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a
> > new
> > HDD by moving its actuator arm?
>
> >
> --
>
> Bruce Chambers
>
> Help us help you:
> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>
> You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
> having
> both at once. - RAH
>
>
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 18, 2004 7:44:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

JAD wrote:
>
> remember the old 'park' the head before you moved the machine dos
> utility?
>
>
>
>


That I remember, but I still don't recall there ever being a need
to warm up a hard drive before using it.
--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having
both at once. - RAH
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 18, 2004 8:25:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

> "Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
> news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...

> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC
> and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms
> up before I format it?

Only if you're using a 1980s-vintage hard drive that positions its
heads with a stepper motor instead of a servo and voice coil, but even
with them this is necessary only if the drive:

a) has a track 0 calibration mechanism that isn't on the platters (old
Miniscribes where the stepper motor shaft had a flag that passed by an
optical sensor). The servo/voice coil system automatically
compensates for expension and contraction caused by changes in
temperature because the magnetic servo marks shift with the data
marks. Any thermal calibration is only for fine-tuning the system for
faster seeks.

b) is being run with 50% more data capacity than it's designed for
(MFM rated drive being used with RLL 2,7, especially Seagates). But I
believe such drives went out of production in the early 1990s, and
none were over 60M-80M in capacity (smaller than many flash drives).

c) is colder than the recommended lower temperature limit, in which
case it should first be allowed to warm up inside a sealed anti-static
container to prevent condensation.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 18, 2004 8:35:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"JAD" <Kapasitor@coldmail.com> wrote in news:10komj3kf8ghe80
@corp.supernews.com:

> Never heard of one, and can't imagine there ever having been a
>> need for anyone to develop such a utility.
>
> remember the old 'park' the head before you moved the machine dos
> utility?

Parking was not limited to DOS, also other OSes supported a park.

--
John MexIT: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/
personal page: http://johnbokma.com/
Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 18, 2004 9:01:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 16:36:48 UTC, "Bruce Chambers"
<bruce_a_chambers@h0tmail.com> wrote:

> JAD wrote:

> That I remember, but I still don't recall there ever being a need
> to warm up a hard drive before using it.

Not warm up, but acclimatise.

I managed various large installations in the past, and if a new
Winchester-style drive (similar technology to now, but a lot bigger!)
came on site, engineers wouldn't fit it until it had been in the machine
room for 24 hours. Basically, to do with possible condensation.

Modern drives are unlikely to need this but the lore remains.

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 18, 2004 10:14:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Bruce Chambers wrote:
> JAD wrote:
>>
>> remember the old 'park' the head before you moved the machine
>> dos utility?
>
> That I remember, but I still don't recall there ever being a
> need to warm up a hard drive before using it.

When you could still do a low level format, it was advisable.

--
"This is a wonderful answer. It's off-topic, it's incorrect,
and it doesn't answer the question." -- Richard Heathfield

"I support the Red Sox and any team that beats the Yankees"
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 18, 2004 11:34:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and let
> the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before I
> format it?

Yes and if it was brought into the room from a significantly different
temperature environment then let it sit in the PC a half hour before
powering it up and then wait the other half hour.

> I have heard there is something called "thermal recalibration" in a HDD
but
> I wonder if it is far better to let the drive warm up to a stable
> temperature.

Yes.

> If warming up the HDD is not being too fussy then how do I ensure the
blank
> drive keeps spinning because I believe that the drive will probably stop
> spinning after a period of time.

Hit the space bar occassionally or don't worry about it as being powered is
the important issue.

> Is this spindown period set in the drive,
> the BIOS or the operating system (I am using XP)?

Could be either BIOS or OS but not drive.

> BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting a load
on
> them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a new HDD by
moving
> its actuator arm?

Yes and you could get the drive quite hot. Don't do that.

Most modern HDs will allow one to get away with not doing the above most of
the time but on a fresh format over caution doesn't hurt.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 18, 2004 11:46:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"JAD" <Kapasitor@coldmail.com> wrote in message
news:10kojal61sbur2e@corp.supernews.com...
> what's with all this cross posting lately?
>
> There is no need to do anything to a HD before starting to prepare it
> for formatting other than fdisk or maxblast or WD/IBM HD tools. after
> the partitions are done format it.

Nope, waiting is not a bad idea.

> "Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
> news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC
> and let
> > the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before
> I
> > format it?
> >
> > I have heard there is something called "thermal recalibration" in a
> HDD but
> > I wonder if it is far better to let the drive warm up to a stable
> > temperature.
> >
> > If warming up the HDD is not being too fussy then how do I ensure
> the blank
> > drive keeps spinning because I believe that the drive will probably
> stop
> > spinning after a period of time. Is this spindown period set in the
> drive,
> > the BIOS or the operating system (I am using XP)?
> >
> > BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting a
> load on
> > them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a new HDD by
> moving
> > its actuator arm?
>
>
September 18, 2004 11:46:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

you throw salt over your shoulder?

"Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
news:Mg03d.605953$Gx4.363174@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "JAD" <Kapasitor@coldmail.com> wrote in message
> news:10kojal61sbur2e@corp.supernews.com...
> > what's with all this cross posting lately?
> >
> > There is no need to do anything to a HD before starting to prepare
it
> > for formatting other than fdisk or maxblast or WD/IBM HD tools.
after
> > the partitions are done format it.
>
> Nope, waiting is not a bad idea.
>
> > "Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
> > news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> > > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the
PC
> > and let
> > > the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up
before
> > I
> > > format it?
> > >
> > > I have heard there is something called "thermal recalibration"
in a
> > HDD but
> > > I wonder if it is far better to let the drive warm up to a
stable
> > > temperature.
> > >
> > > If warming up the HDD is not being too fussy then how do I
ensure
> > the blank
> > > drive keeps spinning because I believe that the drive will
probably
> > stop
> > > spinning after a period of time. Is this spindown period set in
the
> > drive,
> > > the BIOS or the operating system (I am using XP)?
> > >
> > > BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by
putting a
> > load on
> > > them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a new
HDD by
> > moving
> > > its actuator arm?
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 19, 2004 2:16:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

CBFalconer wrote:
> Bruce Chambers wrote:
>
>>JAD wrote:
>>
>>>remember the old 'park' the head before you moved the machine
>>>dos utility?

You needed to park the head(s) every time the platters were spun down,
so they would not land on the "landing area" rather than on the data
tracks. Modern drives use a voice coil actuator which does this
automatically when power is removed.
>>
>>That I remember, but I still don't recall there ever being a
>>need to warm up a hard drive before using it.
>
>
> When you could still do a low level format, it was advisable.
>
The tracks were selected by a stepper motor. If you low-level formatted
the drive, the sector information was re-written to the stepper motor's
track positions. The drive then ran best at the temperature at which it
was low-level formatted. Modern drives use "inbeded servo" tracks which
follow the data tracks with temperature changes.

Virg Wall
--
A foolish consistency is the
hobgoblin of little minds,........
Ralph Waldo Emerson
(Microsoft programmer's manual.)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 19, 2004 3:51:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"do_not_spam_me" <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:101710fa.0409181525.4da17624@posting.google.com...
> > "Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
> > news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
>
> > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC
> > and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms
> > up before I format it?
>
> Only if you're using a 1980s-vintage hard drive that positions its

Not entirely true. You are forgetting the concept of temperature gradient
and warping and margins. Allowing the drive to relax temperature wise
before formatting is a smart move and that goes for today's drives with the
very high data densities.

> heads with a stepper motor instead of a servo and voice coil, but even
> with them this is necessary only if the drive:
>
> a) has a track 0 calibration mechanism that isn't on the platters (old
> Miniscribes where the stepper motor shaft had a flag that passed by an
> optical sensor). The servo/voice coil system automatically
> compensates for expension and contraction caused by changes in
> temperature because the magnetic servo marks shift with the data
> marks. Any thermal calibration is only for fine-tuning the system for
> faster seeks.
>
> b) is being run with 50% more data capacity than it's designed for
> (MFM rated drive being used with RLL 2,7, especially Seagates). But I
> believe such drives went out of production in the early 1990s, and
> none were over 60M-80M in capacity (smaller than many flash drives).
>
> c) is colder than the recommended lower temperature limit, in which
> case it should first be allowed to warm up inside a sealed anti-static
> container to prevent condensation.
September 19, 2004 2:14:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:11:39 -0400, "LVTravel" <none@nothere.com> wrote:

>As JAD said, it is not necessary to "warm up" the drive. The critical
>information, the actual track positions, have already been placed on the
>drive at the factory when they do a low level format of the drive.
>
>The partition and high level format of the drive that you do in preparing it
>for use has no effect on the low level format done at the factory. If it
>did happen, the low level format would be the one affected by thermal
>problems.

If the VC/servo mechanism tracks the ACTUAL track alignment as placed during the
LLF, then all reading/writing is correctly aligned always. Then why is there
any need for drives do this thermal recal?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 19, 2004 2:14:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

budgie wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:11:39 -0400, "LVTravel" <none@nothere.com> wrote:
>
>>As JAD said, it is not necessary to "warm up" the drive. The critical
>>information, the actual track positions, have already been placed on the
>>drive at the factory when they do a low level format of the drive.
>>
>>The partition and high level format of the drive that you do in preparing
>>it
>>for use has no effect on the low level format done at the factory. If it
>>did happen, the low level format would be the one affected by thermal
>>problems.
>
> If the VC/servo mechanism tracks the ACTUAL track alignment as placed
> during the
> LLF, then all reading/writing is correctly aligned always. Then why is
> there any need for drives do this thermal recal?

At one time there was a separate platter with the servo tracks, so it was
possible for temperature changes to alter the head positions slightly
relative to the data tracks. That is no longer the case, each platter has
its own servo information stored.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 19, 2004 3:15:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

> "do_not_spam_me" <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:101710fa.0409181525.4da17624@posting.google.com...
>> > "Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
>> > news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
>>
>> > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
>> > the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
>> > that it warms up before I format it?
>>
>> Only if you're using a 1980s-vintage hard drive that positions
>> its

"Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote:
>
> Not entirely true. You are forgetting the concept of
> temperature gradient and warping and margins. Allowing the
> drive to relax temperature wise before formatting is a smart
> move and that goes for today's drives with the very high data
> densities.
>

I am the OP and what you say was part of my thinking behind my question.

One poster said that the drives come preformatted (at a low level). However
although I am not really clear exactly what my formatting in NTFS or FAT32
does it seems to involve creating index areas (MFT or file allocation
tables), partition boot areas and perhaps creating sectors/clusters too.

So I was thinking that if the HDD's head to track alighnment was not optimal
(because the drive was still in a warm up phase and the thermal
recalibrations were not happening very frequently) then I might be writing
the the formatting data in a way which is slightly off-center of the track.

As I will probably only do this formatting once or twice in the life of a
partition then I figured that some extra care like warming up the drive
could be justified when I do it.

Seems from what a lot of people here say, except for you Ron, that I need
not bother. However I do not want to ignore what works in practice for many
people. OTOH maybe those people who get a very unlucky series of HDD
failures are doing something like formatting when at room temperature (not
quite 70 F or 20 C) rather than the disk working temp which can be well over
110 F or 40 F).
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 19, 2004 3:15:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:15:56 UTC, Sandee <sorry@no.email.please> wrote:

> One poster said that the drives come preformatted (at a low level).

They do. This is done at the factory. Think of it as laying down the
framework (empty sectors and tracks).

The drive will get to the right sector by moving the head to where it
thinks it ought to go, then making minor adjustments to get 'on track'.
It will do this when delivered. When the drive reaches working
temperatire, those adjustments will be different, that's all. These
adjustments will always happen; they are necessary and you can't stop
them. The thermal recalibration just serves to improve the 'dead
reckoning' and isn't that essential.

> However
> although I am not really clear exactly what my formatting in NTFS or FAT32
> does it seems to involve creating index areas (MFT or file allocation
> tables)

Exactly. It just creates an empty file system structure IN THE EXISTING
SECTORS. It does not recreate the sector framework.

> So I was thinking that if the HDD's head to track alighnment was not optimal
> (because the drive was still in a warm up phase and the thermal
> recalibrations were not happening very frequently) then I might be writing
> the the formatting data in a way which is slightly off-center of the track.

No. Because it's simply writing data into the already-set-down sectors.
'Software formatting' (as I call it) does not adjust any placements.
When software formatting writes a boot sector (say) it just writes data;
the adjustments will all be made by the drive so that the data lands
squarely in the sector.

> As I will probably only do this formatting once or twice in the life of a
> partition then I figured that some extra care like warming up the drive
> could be justified when I do it.

No. However, I wouldn't use a drive without letting it acclimatise (say
if brought from the cold outside to a warm room). 24 hours for safety.
And I wouldn't run it during that time. Then I'd turn it on and format
straight away.

> Seems from what a lot of people here say, except for you Ron, that I need
> not bother. However I do not want to ignore what works in practice for many
> people.

This is hearsay; how do we know 'it works'. Have they done proper
controlled experiments or do they just say 'I did it and the drive
worked'? Which is hardly proof..

> OTOH maybe those people who get a very unlucky series of HDD
> failures are doing something like formatting when at room temperature (not
> quite 70 F or 20 C) rather than the disk working temp which can be well over
> 110 F or 40 F).

No, they probably keep the machine on a desk and constantly jog it. Or
run some equipment like a printer or an inkjet fax machine on the same
desk.

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 19, 2004 3:15:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc (More info?)

Sandee wrote:

>> "do_not_spam_me" <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>> news:101710fa.0409181525.4da17624@posting.google.com...
>>> > "Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
>>> > news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
>>>
>>> > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
>>> > the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
>>> > that it warms up before I format it?
>>>
>>> Only if you're using a 1980s-vintage hard drive that positions
>>> its
>
> "Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote:
>>
>> Not entirely true. You are forgetting the concept of
>> temperature gradient and warping and margins. Allowing the
>> drive to relax temperature wise before formatting is a smart
>> move and that goes for today's drives with the very high data
>> densities.
>>
>
> I am the OP and what you say was part of my thinking behind my question.
>
> One poster said that the drives come preformatted (at a low level).
> However although I am not really clear exactly what my formatting in NTFS
> or FAT32 does it seems to involve creating index areas (MFT or file
> allocation tables), partition boot areas and perhaps creating
> sectors/clusters too.
>
> So I was thinking that if the HDD's head to track alighnment was not
> optimal (because the drive was still in a warm up phase and the thermal
> recalibrations were not happening very frequently) then I might be writing
> the the formatting data in a way which is slightly off-center of the
> track.
>
> As I will probably only do this formatting once or twice in the life of a
> partition then I figured that some extra care like warming up the drive
> could be justified when I do it.
>
> Seems from what a lot of people here say, except for you Ron, that I need
> not bother. However I do not want to ignore what works in practice for
> many
> people. OTOH maybe those people who get a very unlucky series of HDD
> failures are doing something like formatting when at room temperature (not
> quite 70 F or 20 C) rather than the disk working temp which can be well
> over 110 F or 40 F).

The bottom line on this is that it's not going to hurt anything, there's a
tiny chance that it may help something, but it's solving a problem that
nobody has observed to exist.

Generally by the time I've gone through the preliminary diagnostics on the
machine and configured the array and had the inevitable discussion with the
customer or employer or supervisor or other buttinsky that occurs the
moment I put the OS media in the drive it's already been up a half an hour
or more when I start the OS installation anyway.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 19, 2004 3:17:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>>As JAD said, it is not necessary to "warm up" the drive. The
>>critical information, the actual track positions, have already
>>been placed on the drive at the factory when they do a low
>>level format of the drive.
>>
>>The partition and high level format of the drive that you do in
>>preparing it for use has no effect on the low level format done
>>at the factory. If it did happen, the low level format would
>>be the one affected by thermal problems.
>
> If the VC/servo mechanism tracks the ACTUAL track alignment as
> placed during the LLF, then all reading/writing is correctly
> aligned always. Then why is there any need for drives do this
> thermal recal?


Do all drives do a thermal reclaibration?

I am told the IBM drives used to be very noisy when doing it but on my
Seagates I have never heard any noise from them engaging in some periodic
activity like thermal recalibration.
September 19, 2004 5:20:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:44:56 +0100, Sandee <sorry@no.email.please>
wrote:

> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
> the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
> that it warms up before I format it?

Yes.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 19, 2004 5:20:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:20:15 UTC, Ken <___ken3@telia.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:44:56 +0100, Sandee <sorry@no.email.please>
> wrote:
>
> > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
> > the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
> > that it warms up before I format it?
>
> Yes.

Please explain why.

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!
September 19, 2004 5:50:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On 19 Sep 2004 11:39:01 GMT, "Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote:

>>> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
>>> the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
>>> that it warms up before I format it?
>>
>> Yes.
>
> Please explain why.

Because of normal psychical behavior of different materials.
Temperature change make it expand or crimp.
The drive would be in normal temperature span when
formatting for minimizing the chance of fault.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 19, 2004 5:50:24 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc (More info?)

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:50:23 UTC, Ken <___ken3@telia.com> wrote:

> Because of normal psychical behavior of different materials.

I didn't know disks were psychic! (actually, S.M.A.R.T. comes near...)!

> Temperature change make it expand or crimp.
> The drive would be in normal temperature span when
> formatting for minimizing the chance of fault.

See my other reply.

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 19, 2004 5:53:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Howdy!

"Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and let
> the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before I
> format it?

Man, talk about a "blast from the past" B)

We used to have to do this back in the 80's. But right around 1986,
when closed loop head positioners (first with a separate servo surface, then
with servo bursts mixed with the data), that pretty much went out the door.

To answer your question - as long as it comes from short-sleeve
comfortable, then no.

(Ask me when it's been in -40 weather, and I'll tell you a different
tale B) )

RwP
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 19, 2004 6:08:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:50:23 +0200, Ken <___ken3@telia.com>
wrote:

>On 19 Sep 2004 11:39:01 GMT, "Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>>>> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
>>>> the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
>>>> that it warms up before I format it?
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>
>> Please explain why.
>
>Because of normal psychical behavior of different materials.
>Temperature change make it expand or crimp.
>The drive would be in normal temperature span when
>formatting for minimizing the chance of fault.


Except that every time the system is turned on (assuming
climate controlled environment) the HDD must then start out
"cold", boot and run system.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 20, 2004 12:50:44 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc (More info?)

Sandee <sorry@no.email.please> writes:

> > "do_not_spam_me" <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > news:101710fa.0409181525.4da17624@posting.google.com...
> >> > "Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
> >> > news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> >>
> >> > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
> >> > the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
> >> > that it warms up before I format it?
> >>
> >> Only if you're using a 1980s-vintage hard drive that positions
> >> its
>
> "Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote:
> >
> > Not entirely true. You are forgetting the concept of
> > temperature gradient and warping and margins. Allowing the
> > drive to relax temperature wise before formatting is a smart
> > move and that goes for today's drives with the very high data
> > densities.
> >
>
> I am the OP and what you say was part of my thinking behind my question.
>
> One poster said that the drives come preformatted (at a low level). However
> although I am not really clear exactly what my formatting in NTFS or FAT32
> does it seems to involve creating index areas (MFT or file allocation
> tables), partition boot areas and perhaps creating sectors/clusters too.

Drives used to come preformatted with a large FAT32 filesystem (FAT16 in the
days of 2 gig disks). However recent disks that I bought had no partition
table or any OS level filesystem. I suspect this is due to Microsoft trying to
extort money from disk vendors with a submarine patent on FAT32, and the disk
vendors have struck back shipping the disks unformated.

--
Michael Meissner
email: mrmnews@the-meissners.org
http://www.the-meissners.org
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 20, 2004 12:50:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc (More info?)

Only retail disks might be formatted. Never bought one.

OEM disks are empty with zero MBR.

"Michael Meissner" <mrmnews@the-meissners.org> wrote in message
news:m365697ogr.fsf@tiktok.the-meissners.org...

>
> Drives used to come preformatted with a large FAT32 filesystem (FAT16 in the
> days of 2 gig disks). However recent disks that I bought had no partition
> table or any OS level filesystem. I suspect this is due to Microsoft trying
to
> extort money from disk vendors with a submarine patent on FAT32, and the
disk
> vendors have struck back shipping the disks unformated.
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 20, 2004 1:05:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc (More info?)

"Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
news:95697299D97D674C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> > "do_not_spam_me" <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > news:101710fa.0409181525.4da17624@posting.google.com...
> >> > "Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
> >> > news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> >>
> >> > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
> >> > the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
> >> > that it warms up before I format it?
> >>
> >> Only if you're using a 1980s-vintage hard drive that positions
> >> its
>
> "Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote:
> >
> > Not entirely true. You are forgetting the concept of
> > temperature gradient and warping and margins. Allowing the
> > drive to relax temperature wise before formatting is a smart
> > move and that goes for today's drives with the very high data
> > densities.
> >
>
> I am the OP and what you say was part of my thinking behind my question.
>
> One poster said that the drives come preformatted (at a low level).

Correct.

> However
> although I am not really clear exactly what my formatting in NTFS or FAT32
> does it seems to involve creating index areas (MFT or file allocation
> tables), partition boot areas and perhaps creating sectors/clusters too.

Right, creates the file system and does some testing.

> So I was thinking that if the HDD's head to track alighnment was not
optimal
> (because the drive was still in a warm up phase and the thermal
> recalibrations were not happening very frequently) then I might be writing
> the the formatting data in a way which is slightly off-center of the
track.

Precisely. There is a lot of engineering gone into correcting for that with
the track following servo etc. HOWEVER all that fancy engineering has been
mostly used up in higher data density. There will be temperature gradients
and relaxations that some drives will not be able to handle. Why see if
yours is one especially for the original format. I aways let drives relax
to the current temperature.

> As I will probably only do this formatting once or twice in the life of a
> partition then I figured that some extra care like warming up the drive
> could be justified when I do it.

Right and my response to the other posters is.....DUH!

> Seems from what a lot of people here say, except for you Ron, that I need
> not bother.

Let simple logic and your own arguments guide you.

> However I do not want to ignore what works in practice for many
> people.

But what percentage of the time does their empirical results work and when
and how will they be able to detect failure?

"I don't warm mine up and nothing explodes in the next hour.".....ding
clueless.

> OTOH maybe those people who get a very unlucky series of HDD
> failures are doing something like formatting when at room temperature (not
> quite 70 F or 20 C) rather than the disk working temp which can be well
over
> 110 F or 40 F).

I'm not talking about a few degrees temp difference nor the normal drive
heating cycle during operation. I'm talking about that drive that's been
sitting in my trunk or on a UPS truck at 2C for >12 hours and then bringing
it in and powering and using it immediately and I'm not talking about
condensation which also must be prevented.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 20, 2004 1:06:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
news:956972F15C06D74C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> >>As JAD said, it is not necessary to "warm up" the drive. The
> >>critical information, the actual track positions, have already
> >>been placed on the drive at the factory when they do a low
> >>level format of the drive.
> >>
> >>The partition and high level format of the drive that you do in
> >>preparing it for use has no effect on the low level format done
> >>at the factory. If it did happen, the low level format would
> >>be the one affected by thermal problems.
> >
> > If the VC/servo mechanism tracks the ACTUAL track alignment as
> > placed during the LLF, then all reading/writing is correctly
> > aligned always. Then why is there any need for drives do this
> > thermal recal?
>
>
> Do all drives do a thermal reclaibration?

I don't know of any that still do that.

> I am told the IBM drives used to be very noisy when doing it but on my
> Seagates I have never heard any noise from them engaging in some periodic
> activity like thermal recalibration.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 20, 2004 1:07:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:176uZD2KcidF-pn2-xST42dNfdlWi@rikki.tavi.co.uk...
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:20:15 UTC, Ken <___ken3@telia.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:44:56 +0100, Sandee <sorry@no.email.please>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
> > > the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
> > > that it warms up before I format it?
> >
> > Yes.
>
> Please explain why.

It's intuitively obvious!
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 20, 2004 1:08:23 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc (More info?)

"Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:176uZD2KcidF-pn2-gDSEupxRlYNX@rikki.tavi.co.uk...
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:50:23 UTC, Ken <___ken3@telia.com> wrote:
>
> > Because of normal psychical behavior of different materials.
>
> I didn't know disks were psychic! (actually, S.M.A.R.T. comes near...)!
>
> > Temperature change make it expand or crimp.
> > The drive would be in normal temperature span when
> > formatting for minimizing the chance of fault.
>
> See my other reply.

Why?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 20, 2004 1:10:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:cik55t1964@news1.newsguy.com...
> budgie wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:11:39 -0400, "LVTravel" <none@nothere.com> wrote:
> >
> >>As JAD said, it is not necessary to "warm up" the drive. The critical
> >>information, the actual track positions, have already been placed on the
> >>drive at the factory when they do a low level format of the drive.
> >>
> >>The partition and high level format of the drive that you do in
preparing
> >>it
> >>for use has no effect on the low level format done at the factory. If
it
> >>did happen, the low level format would be the one affected by thermal
> >>problems.
> >
> > If the VC/servo mechanism tracks the ACTUAL track alignment as placed
> > during the
> > LLF, then all reading/writing is correctly aligned always. Then why is
> > there any need for drives do this thermal recal?
>
> At one time there was a separate platter with the servo tracks, so it was
> possible for temperature changes to alter the head positions slightly
> relative to the data tracks. That is no longer the case, each platter has
> its own servo information stored.

That implies that it's stored one place/track per platter which is not so.
The servo information is embedded with the data in each and every track and
sector.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 20, 2004 1:12:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:2j4rk053lqr4ncsgfs8r5jcv8nv55fcgj3@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:50:23 +0200, Ken <___ken3@telia.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On 19 Sep 2004 11:39:01 GMT, "Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote:
> >
> >>>> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
> >>>> the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
> >>>> that it warms up before I format it?
> >>>
> >>> Yes.
> >>
> >> Please explain why.
> >
> >Because of normal psychical behavior of different materials.
> >Temperature change make it expand or crimp.
> >The drive would be in normal temperature span when
> >formatting for minimizing the chance of fault.
>
>
> Except that every time the system is turned on (assuming
> climate controlled environment) the HDD must then start out
> "cold", boot and run system.

Yep, but then each and every time you turn it on you aren't doing a format.
And a format of a new drive also portends the probability that the drive was
also just brought into the room from an external environment at a much
larger temperature difference.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 20, 2004 1:13:47 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Ralph Wade Phillips" <ralphp@techie.com> wrote in message
news:2r62tuF1586oiU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Howdy!
>
> "Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
> news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and
let
> > the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before I
> > format it?
>
> Man, talk about a "blast from the past" B)
>
> We used to have to do this back in the 80's. But right around
1986,
> when closed loop head positioners (first with a separate servo surface,
then
> with servo bursts mixed with the data), that pretty much went out the
door.
>
> To answer your question - as long as it comes from short-sleeve
> comfortable, then no.
>
> (Ask me when it's been in -40 weather, and I'll tell you a
different
> tale B) )

Not everyone is clueless.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 20, 2004 1:14:53 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc (More info?)

Michael Meissner wrote:

> Sandee <sorry@no.email.please> writes:
>
>> > "do_not_spam_me" <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>> > news:101710fa.0409181525.4da17624@posting.google.com...
>> >> > "Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
>> >> > news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
>> >>
>> >> > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
>> >> > the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
>> >> > that it warms up before I format it?
>> >>
>> >> Only if you're using a 1980s-vintage hard drive that positions
>> >> its
>>
>> "Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > Not entirely true. You are forgetting the concept of
>> > temperature gradient and warping and margins. Allowing the
>> > drive to relax temperature wise before formatting is a smart
>> > move and that goes for today's drives with the very high data
>> > densities.
>> >
>>
>> I am the OP and what you say was part of my thinking behind my question.
>>
>> One poster said that the drives come preformatted (at a low level).
>> However although I am not really clear exactly what my formatting in NTFS
>> or FAT32 does it seems to involve creating index areas (MFT or file
>> allocation tables), partition boot areas and perhaps creating
>> sectors/clusters too.
>
> Drives used to come preformatted with a large FAT32 filesystem (FAT16 in
> the
> days of 2 gig disks).

From _who_? No _manufacturer_ shipped them that way. A reseller might. If
you were getting a lot of drives that came that way odds are you were
getting drives that other customers had returned.

> However recent disks that I bought had no partition
> table or any OS level filesystem. I suspect this is due to Microsoft
> trying to extort money from disk vendors with a submarine patent on FAT32,
> and the disk vendors have struck back shipping the disks unformated.

Why would anybody _want_ a drive preformatted with an obsolete file system?

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 20, 2004 4:30:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"CBFalconer" <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:414C7393.C52E1191@yahoo.com...
> Bruce Chambers wrote:
> > JAD wrote:
> >>
> >> remember the old 'park' the head before you moved the machine
> >> dos utility?
> >
> > That I remember, but I still don't recall there ever being a
> > need to warm up a hard drive before using it.
>
> When you could still do a low level format, it was advisable.

Because it was 'advisable', *that* is why it could do it.

There is a reason why it was called "Format Track" (and not Format
Unit, the SCSI equivalent that is still supported, unlike the ATA form).

>
> --
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 20, 2004 5:54:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc (More info?)

Ignore troll.

"Michael Meissner" <mrmnews@the-meissners.org> wrote in message
September 20, 2004 8:41:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:<cik55t1964@news1.newsguy.com>...

> At one time there was a separate platter with the servo
> tracks, so it was possible for temperature changes to
> alter the head positions slightly relative to the data
> tracks. That is no longer the case, each platter has
> its own servo information stored.

Can the servo writer access all the platters through the
small hole on the side of the drive?

I have problems understanding how thermal calibration
is a bigger benefit when only one platter has a servo
because if each platter expands slightly differently,
how does thermally calibrating against that one servo
improve the calibration of the other platters?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 20, 2004 12:10:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Manny wrote:

> "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:<cik55t1964@news1.newsguy.com>...
>
>> At one time there was a separate platter with the servo
>> tracks, so it was possible for temperature changes to
>> alter the head positions slightly relative to the data
>> tracks. That is no longer the case, each platter has
>> its own servo information stored.
>
> Can the servo writer access all the platters through the
> small hole on the side of the drive?

Since there is a large hole in the top of the drive until such time as the
factory decides to put the lid on that is not an issue. Regardless, there
is really no separate "servo-writer" that is inserted into the drive--the
heads that are shipped with it are used for servo writing, but positioned
by an external device at the factory.

> I have problems understanding how thermal calibration
> is a bigger benefit when only one platter has a servo
> because if each platter expands slightly differently,
> how does thermally calibrating against that one servo
> improve the calibration of the other platters?

You don't "calibrate against that one servo". You calibrate against the
data tracks and then use the calculated offset.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 20, 2004 1:35:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Sandee <sorry@no.email.please> wrote:

>If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and let

Why don't you cross-post to a few more groups while you're at it, you
idiot?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 20, 2004 9:54:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Manny" <manny@london.com> wrote in message news:e5e2bb26.0409200341.2687635@posting.google.com
> "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:<cik55t1964@news1.newsguy.com>...
>
> > At one time there was a separate platter with the servo
> > tracks, so it was possible for temperature changes to
> > alter the head positions slightly relative to the data
> > tracks. That is no longer the case, each platter has
> > its own servo information stored.
>
> Can the servo writer access all the platters through the
> small hole on the side of the drive?
>
> I have problems understanding how thermal calibration
> is a bigger benefit when only one platter has a servo
> because if each platter expands slightly differently,
> how does thermally calibrating against that one servo
> improve the calibration of the other platters?

The calibration process is to update parameters for all
the platters (surfaces) individually.
September 20, 2004 11:47:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Sounds like a good idea, then he could get even more moronic answers like
yours.


"chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:akqtk0tm79ajmrkd05rg1l8fjt3oju33fp@4ax.com...
> Sandee <sorry@no.email.please> wrote:
>
>>If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and let
>
> Why don't you cross-post to a few more groups while you're at it, you
> idiot?
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 21, 2004 12:50:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Manny" <manny@london.com> wrote in message
news:e5e2bb26.0409200341.2687635@posting.google.com...

> I have problems understanding how thermal calibration
> is a bigger benefit when only one platter has a servo
> because if each platter expands slightly differently,
> how does thermally calibrating against that one servo
> improve the calibration of the other platters?

No such process at a [single] platter level is in use these days.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 21, 2004 12:52:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:cimih101dnr@news2.newsguy.com...
> Manny wrote:
>
> > "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:<cik55t1964@news1.newsguy.com>...
> >
> >> At one time there was a separate platter with the servo
> >> tracks, so it was possible for temperature changes to
> >> alter the head positions slightly relative to the data
> >> tracks. That is no longer the case, each platter has
> >> its own servo information stored.
> >
> > Can the servo writer access all the platters through the
> > small hole on the side of the drive?
>
> Since there is a large hole in the top of the drive until such time as the
> factory decides to put the lid on that is not an issue. Regardless, there
> is really no separate "servo-writer" that is inserted into the drive--the
> heads that are shipped with it are used for servo writing, but positioned
> by an external device at the factory.

Basically correct.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 21, 2004 12:52:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Ignore the known troll and wacko.

"chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 21, 2004 12:52:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

OK.

Tools / Messages Rules / Blocked Sender List
Add / rondashreaugh@att.ne / Usenet
Done

"Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
news:sqH3d.402611$OB3.136752@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Ignore the known troll and wacko.
>
> "chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 21, 2004 1:29:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:52:40 GMT, "Ron Reaugh"
<rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote:

>Ignore the known troll and wacko.
>

Which known troll and wacko?
!