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TWO Maxtor failures in a row

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Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 13, 2004 8:20:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In the last two weeks, I've had two Maxtor hard drives fail. Hard.

The first was a Maxtor external USB2 drive in the original Maxtor case. The
second is a Maxtor drive in a generic external USB2 case.

Both were pretty heavily used.

The error I get is a popup stating "Delayed write failed -- unable to write
to G:\msft"

The drive disappears and doesn't show on the subsequent boot.

OK, so I won't buy Maxtor, but is there ANY way to salvage the data? 500GB
worth!

The critical stuff is backed up, but I'd still like to save everything else.

Thanks in advance.

Tom

More about : maxtor failures row

Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 13, 2004 4:32:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously Tom Scales <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote:
> In the last two weeks, I've had two Maxtor hard drives fail. Hard.

> The first was a Maxtor external USB2 drive in the original Maxtor case. The
> second is a Maxtor drive in a generic external USB2 case.

> Both were pretty heavily used.

Maybe grossly inadequate cooling? Many external enclosures are
suffering from this problem and are only fit for sparing use if at
all. Maxtor says 50C maximum and that tests have shown that the
failure rate should only begin to increse from 55C and up. However
usually the failure rates increase dramatically on overheated
HDDs. Death by "old age" within 3 months is a real possibility.

> The error I get is a popup stating "Delayed write failed -- unable to write
> to G:\msft"

> The drive disappears and doesn't show on the subsequent boot.

> OK, so I won't buy Maxtor, but is there ANY way to salvage the data? 500GB
> worth!

One possibiluty is that not the drive but the interfaces or PSUs failed.
Unlikely in my opinion but might be worth a try. Remove the hdds from
the cases and try them directly in your computer. If they are o.k.,
you should get them detected and should be able to run PowerMax
for diagnostics. You might also be able to read you data, I did this
sucessfully under Linux with my enclosure.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 13, 2004 4:32:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:325jurF3ip47dU2@individual.net...
> Previously Tom Scales <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote:
>> In the last two weeks, I've had two Maxtor hard drives fail. Hard.
>
>> The first was a Maxtor external USB2 drive in the original Maxtor case.
>> The
>> second is a Maxtor drive in a generic external USB2 case.
>
>> Both were pretty heavily used.
>
> Maybe grossly inadequate cooling? Many external enclosures are
> suffering from this problem and are only fit for sparing use if at
> all. Maxtor says 50C maximum and that tests have shown that the
> failure rate should only begin to increse from 55C and up. However
> usually the failure rates increase dramatically on overheated
> HDDs. Death by "old age" within 3 months is a real possibility.
>
>> The error I get is a popup stating "Delayed write failed -- unable to
>> write
>> to G:\msft"
>
>> The drive disappears and doesn't show on the subsequent boot.
>
>> OK, so I won't buy Maxtor, but is there ANY way to salvage the data?
>> 500GB
>> worth!
>
> One possibiluty is that not the drive but the interfaces or PSUs failed.
> Unlikely in my opinion but might be worth a try. Remove the hdds from
> the cases and try them directly in your computer. If they are o.k.,
> you should get them detected and should be able to run PowerMax
> for diagnostics. You might also be able to read you data, I did this
> sucessfully under Linux with my enclosure.
>
> Arno

They don't work directly connected, so they're dead. I too suspect cooling.
For the no-name, that makes sense, but for the Maxtor sold drive, that's
frustrating.

Clearly, I am only going to use the external drives for backups and light
use. This drive was pretty heavily used.

Tom
Related resources
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 13, 2004 6:15:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

I've never used an external drive, but the aftermarket enclosures I've
seen, including removable IDE drive bays, didn't seem to be well
ventilated, and Maxtor drives have six tiny chips for the motor and
head movement that reach about 70C in 25C surrounding air. But simply
mounting the drive vertically can cool those chips by 15C.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 13, 2004 9:42:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously Tom Scales <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote:

> "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:325jurF3ip47dU2@individual.net...
>> Previously Tom Scales <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote:
>>> In the last two weeks, I've had two Maxtor hard drives fail. Hard.
[...]
>> One possibiluty is that not the drive but the interfaces or PSUs failed.
>> Unlikely in my opinion but might be worth a try. Remove the hdds from
>> the cases and try them directly in your computer. If they are o.k.,
>> you should get them detected and should be able to run PowerMax
>> for diagnostics. You might also be able to read you data, I did this
>> sucessfully under Linux with my enclosure.
>>
>> Arno

> They don't work directly connected, so they're dead. I too suspect cooling.
> For the no-name, that makes sense, but for the Maxtor sold drive, that's
> frustrating.

I agree. If they cannot deliver a solid product, they should have stayed
out of the external drive business. Still, I guess they looked at typical
usage patterns and concluded that light usage is the norm. There might
even be something in the documentation about it.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 14, 2004 4:15:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Go Hitachi man, never look back.



On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:01:33 -0500, "Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net>
wrote:

>
>"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:325jurF3ip47dU2@individual.net...
>> Previously Tom Scales <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote:
>>> In the last two weeks, I've had two Maxtor hard drives fail. Hard.
>>
>>> The first was a Maxtor external USB2 drive in the original Maxtor case.
>>> The
>>> second is a Maxtor drive in a generic external USB2 case.
>>
>>> Both were pretty heavily used.
>>
>> Maybe grossly inadequate cooling? Many external enclosures are
>> suffering from this problem and are only fit for sparing use if at
>> all. Maxtor says 50C maximum and that tests have shown that the
>> failure rate should only begin to increse from 55C and up. However
>> usually the failure rates increase dramatically on overheated
>> HDDs. Death by "old age" within 3 months is a real possibility.
>>
>>> The error I get is a popup stating "Delayed write failed -- unable to
>>> write
>>> to G:\msft"
>>
>>> The drive disappears and doesn't show on the subsequent boot.
>>
>>> OK, so I won't buy Maxtor, but is there ANY way to salvage the data?
>>> 500GB
>>> worth!
>>
>> One possibiluty is that not the drive but the interfaces or PSUs failed.
>> Unlikely in my opinion but might be worth a try. Remove the hdds from
>> the cases and try them directly in your computer. If they are o.k.,
>> you should get them detected and should be able to run PowerMax
>> for diagnostics. You might also be able to read you data, I did this
>> sucessfully under Linux with my enclosure.
>>
>> Arno
>
>They don't work directly connected, so they're dead. I too suspect cooling.
>For the no-name, that makes sense, but for the Maxtor sold drive, that's
>frustrating.
>
>Clearly, I am only going to use the external drives for backups and light
>use. This drive was pretty heavily used.
>
>Tom
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 14, 2004 4:16:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously The Other Guy. <2221@1.com> wrote:

> Go Hitachi man, never look back.

Not this decade. 5 out of 5 dead "deathstars" and no honest explanation
so far is enough to not trust them again for a long time.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 14, 2004 4:16:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

You're joking, right? Every single IBM Deskstar I have ever owned died.

I don't think I am alone.

Tom
"The Other Guy." <2221@1.com> wrote in message
news:g09rr0dn2a5h8r57nnm7h4ikjmqcffe7b4@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> Go Hitachi man, never look back.
>
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 14, 2004 4:16:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously Tom Scales <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote:
> You're joking, right? Every single IBM Deskstar I have ever owned died.

> I don't think I am alone.

No, see my post. We threw even the working ones out at work after
several people lost data.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
December 14, 2004 5:38:51 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

The Other Guy. wrote:
>
>
> Go Hitachi man, never look back.
>
><snip>

ROTFL! Yeah, right ...

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.
December 14, 2004 7:07:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

i also have two maxtor 80GB and i only use it for only 4months and it
fail the sad part of it was, they forfeit the warranty, i promise to
myself never to buy any maxtor product anymore. Its a waste of money
considering am just a student... so sad thats my allowance going to
waste.... maxtor doesnt even respond to my question, why? :shock:
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 14, 2004 10:25:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

The Other Guy. <2221@1.com> wrote:

>Go Hitachi man, never look back.

Ron, is that you?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 14, 2004 4:34:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously jcombalicer <jcombalicer@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid> wrote:
> i also have two maxtor 80GB and i only use it for only 4months and it
> fail the sad part of it was, they forfeit the warranty,

What reasoning?

Arno

> i promise to
> myself never to buy any maxtor product anymore. Its a waste of money
> considering am just a student... so sad thats my allowance going to
> waste.... maxtor doesnt even respond to my question, why? :shock:


--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 15, 2004 3:15:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

With the reports of drive failures from different manufactures, this
raises a question... for me that is..

who makes a reliable drive..
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 15, 2004 4:26:51 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Brody"wrote:
>
> With the reports of drive failures from different manufactures, this
> raises a question... for me that is..
>
> who makes a reliable drive..


That is too broad a question. Remember that the original
posting involved external USB hard drives without a cooling
fan. Even if you narrow the question to internal ATA drives,
the speed is important due to its influence on heat generation.
The number of platters might even have a bearing.
Care now to ask something more meaningful?

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 15, 2004 1:06:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously Brody <jbrody@hotmail.com> wrote:

> With the reports of drive failures from different manufactures, this
> raises a question... for me that is..

> who makes a reliable drive..

Nobody. A fundamental impossibility.

Even very high levels of reliability (which I assume you actually ask
for) are not available today.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 15, 2004 1:06:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Arno Wagner wrote:

> Previously Brody <jbrody@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> With the reports of drive failures from different manufactures, this
>> raises a question... for me that is..
>
>> who makes a reliable drive..
>
> Nobody. A fundamental impossibility.
>
> Even very high levels of reliability (which I assume you actually ask
> for) are not available today.

For certain values of "very".

>
> Arno

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 15, 2004 2:40:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 00:15:01 GMT, Brody <jbrody@hotmail.com> wrote:

>who makes a reliable drive..

That's like asking if Microsoft Works...
--
To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 16, 2004 12:21:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Arno Wagner wrote:
> Previously Brody <jbrody@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>With the reports of drive failures from different manufactures, this
>>raises a question... for me that is..
>
>
>>who makes a reliable drive..
>
>
> Nobody. A fundamental impossibility.
>
> Even very high levels of reliability (which I assume you actually ask
> for) are not available today.
>
> Arno

Then I might as well go with the IBM Deskstar.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 16, 2004 12:23:51 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Timothy Daniels wrote:
> "Brody"wrote:
>
>>
>> With the reports of drive failures from different manufactures, this
>> raises a question... for me that is..
>>
>> who makes a reliable drive..
>
>
>
> That is too broad a question. Remember that the original
> posting involved external USB hard drives without a cooling
> fan. Even if you narrow the question to internal ATA drives,
> the speed is important due to its influence on heat generation.
> The number of platters might even have a bearing.
> Care now to ask something more meaningful?

Why bother, this newsgroup seldom generates meaningful answers.

There are a few who post here because they actually want to help, Svend
for example. Most of the rest strut around trying to show how clever
they are while never actually answering a question.

My question was simple. Who makes a reliable drive. I should not have to
state that I mean a drive operated within the manufacturers
specifications; external OR internal is irrelevant





>
> *TimDaniels*
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 16, 2004 12:23:52 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Brody wrote:

>
>
> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>> "Brody"wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> With the reports of drive failures from different manufactures, this
>>> raises a question... for me that is..
>>>
>>> who makes a reliable drive..
>>
>>
>>
>> That is too broad a question. Remember that the original
>> posting involved external USB hard drives without a cooling
>> fan. Even if you narrow the question to internal ATA drives,
>> the speed is important due to its influence on heat generation.
>> The number of platters might even have a bearing.
>> Care now to ask something more meaningful?
>
> Why bother, this newsgroup seldom generates meaningful answers.
>
> There are a few who post here because they actually want to help, Svend
> for example. Most of the rest strut around trying to show how clever
> they are while never actually answering a question.
>
> My question was simple. Who makes a reliable drive. I should not have to
> state that I mean a drive operated within the manufacturers
> specifications; external OR internal is irrelevant

The bottom line is that all manufacturers make some drives that are reliable
and some that aren't. And there's no repository of information on drive
reliability--you'll get anecdotal evidence here. For example I've never
had a problem with IBM 75GXPs, but just about everybody else has and their
failure rate is notorious. So if you use my experience I'll tell you that
they're great drives. And I would be wrong.

Someone else here might have a 100% failure rate with enterprise SCSI drives
and would tell you that they are not reliable. And he would be misleading
you with that information just as much as I would with my experience
concerning the 75GXPs.

If you want reliability, then _assume_ that the drive is going to fail and
that it is a consumable and make the appropriate accommodations. That's
why RAID exists, because no drive is reliable enough for mission-critical
storage in modern business.

>> *TimDaniels*

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 16, 2004 12:44:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously J. Clarke <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Arno Wagner wrote:

>> Previously Brody <jbrody@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> With the reports of drive failures from different manufactures, this
>>> raises a question... for me that is..
>>
>>> who makes a reliable drive..
>>
>> Nobody. A fundamental impossibility.
>>
>> Even very high levels of reliability (which I assume you actually ask
>> for) are not available today.

> For certain values of "very".

Of course. Sorry. I was thinking something like "reliable enough that
99% of the normal users will not experience a failure in their
lifetime"

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 16, 2004 12:51:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously Brody <jbrody@hotmail.com> wrote:


> Arno Wagner wrote:
>> Previously Brody <jbrody@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>With the reports of drive failures from different manufactures, this
>>>raises a question... for me that is..
>>
>>
>>>who makes a reliable drive..
>>
>>
>> Nobody. A fundamental impossibility.
>>
>> Even very high levels of reliability (which I assume you actually ask
>> for) are not available today.
>>
>> Arno

> Then I might as well go with the IBM Deskstar.

By the same logic you could delete all your data. You should go for
the best reliability/cost ratio in your cost segment.

For me that is currently Maxtor/Seagate/Samsung with RAID1 or RAID5
and additional backup for critical stuff. For you this may be something
else entirely. The point is that the issue reliable storage can today not
be solved simply by buying a "reliable disk".

Look at some other technology: Good quality paper is extremely
reliable today. If you store with some care, it will keep > 100
years. (Not necessarily with laser or inkjet printing, but try
a pencil.) Computer storage has a long way to go to reach this
reliability level but there are ways to make it good enough
by additional precautions.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 16, 2004 12:51:06 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Arno Wagner wrote:

> Previously Brody <jbrody@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Arno Wagner wrote:
>>> Previously Brody <jbrody@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>With the reports of drive failures from different manufactures, this
>>>>raises a question... for me that is..
>>>
>>>
>>>>who makes a reliable drive..
>>>
>>>
>>> Nobody. A fundamental impossibility.
>>>
>>> Even very high levels of reliability (which I assume you actually ask
>>> for) are not available today.
>>>
>>> Arno
>
>> Then I might as well go with the IBM Deskstar.
>
> By the same logic you could delete all your data. You should go for
> the best reliability/cost ratio in your cost segment.
>
> For me that is currently Maxtor/Seagate/Samsung with RAID1 or RAID5
> and additional backup for critical stuff. For you this may be something
> else entirely. The point is that the issue reliable storage can today not
> be solved simply by buying a "reliable disk".
>
> Look at some other technology: Good quality paper is extremely
> reliable today. If you store with some care, it will keep > 100
> years. (Not necessarily with laser or inkjet printing, but try
> a pencil.)

Laser should be as permanent as it's going to get. Carbon-black pigment
bonded to the paper is hard to beat with a paper-based system.
Shellac-base drafting ink in a pen plotter will also last a good long time.

> Computer storage has a long way to go to reach this
> reliability level but there are ways to make it good enough
> by additional precautions.
>
> Arno

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 16, 2004 12:52:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously Impmon <impmon@digi.mon> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 00:15:01 GMT, Brody <jbrody@hotmail.com> wrote:

>>who makes a reliable drive..

> That's like asking if Microsoft Works...

MS does work. The problem is that people see them in the wrong
market segment. They make toys. People think they make tools.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
December 16, 2004 2:35:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Brody wrote:
>
>
> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>
>> "Brody"wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> With the reports of drive failures from different manufactures, this
>>> raises a question... for me that is..
>>>
>>> who makes a reliable drive..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> That is too broad a question. Remember that the original
>> posting involved external USB hard drives without a cooling
>> fan. Even if you narrow the question to internal ATA drives,
>> the speed is important due to its influence on heat generation.
>> The number of platters might even have a bearing.
>> Care now to ask something more meaningful?
>
>
> Why bother, this newsgroup seldom generates meaningful answers.
>
> There are a few who post here because they actually want to help, Svend
> for example. Most of the rest strut around trying to show how clever
> they are while never actually answering a question.
>
> My question was simple. Who makes a reliable drive. I should not have to
> state that I mean a drive operated within the manufacturers
> specifications; external OR internal is irrelevant
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> *TimDaniels*
>
>
I've found Seagate, Maxtor, and WD drives are all quite reliable. I've
never had a DOA or infant mortality with any of them.

Pay close attention to power and heat and you should be fine.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 16, 2004 4:36:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously J. Clarke <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Arno Wagner wrote:

>> Previously Brody <jbrody@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Arno Wagner wrote:
>>>> Previously Brody <jbrody@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>With the reports of drive failures from different manufactures, this
>>>>>raises a question... for me that is..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>who makes a reliable drive..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nobody. A fundamental impossibility.
>>>>
>>>> Even very high levels of reliability (which I assume you actually ask
>>>> for) are not available today.
>>>>
>>>> Arno
>>
>>> Then I might as well go with the IBM Deskstar.
>>
>> By the same logic you could delete all your data. You should go for
>> the best reliability/cost ratio in your cost segment.
>>
>> For me that is currently Maxtor/Seagate/Samsung with RAID1 or RAID5
>> and additional backup for critical stuff. For you this may be something
>> else entirely. The point is that the issue reliable storage can today not
>> be solved simply by buying a "reliable disk".
>>
>> Look at some other technology: Good quality paper is extremely
>> reliable today. If you store with some care, it will keep > 100
>> years. (Not necessarily with laser or inkjet printing, but try
>> a pencil.)

> Laser should be as permanent as it's going to get. Carbon-black pigment
> bonded to the paper is hard to beat with a paper-based system.

I found that on laser-prints that have been stored a longer time the
pages may start to stick together. Maybe that problem is fixed today.

> Shellac-base drafting ink in a pen plotter will also last a good long time.

Definitely.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 16, 2004 4:36:06 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Arno Wagner wrote:

> Previously J. Clarke <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> Arno Wagner wrote:
>
>>> Previously Brody <jbrody@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Arno Wagner wrote:
>>>>> Previously Brody <jbrody@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>With the reports of drive failures from different manufactures, this
>>>>>>raises a question... for me that is..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>who makes a reliable drive..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nobody. A fundamental impossibility.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even very high levels of reliability (which I assume you actually ask
>>>>> for) are not available today.
>>>>>
>>>>> Arno
>>>
>>>> Then I might as well go with the IBM Deskstar.
>>>
>>> By the same logic you could delete all your data. You should go for
>>> the best reliability/cost ratio in your cost segment.
>>>
>>> For me that is currently Maxtor/Seagate/Samsung with RAID1 or RAID5
>>> and additional backup for critical stuff. For you this may be something
>>> else entirely. The point is that the issue reliable storage can today
>>> not be solved simply by buying a "reliable disk".
>>>
>>> Look at some other technology: Good quality paper is extremely
>>> reliable today. If you store with some care, it will keep > 100
>>> years. (Not necessarily with laser or inkjet printing, but try
>>> a pencil.)
>
>> Laser should be as permanent as it's going to get. Carbon-black pigment
>> bonded to the paper is hard to beat with a paper-based system.
>
> I found that on laser-prints that have been stored a longer time the
> pages may start to stick together. Maybe that problem is fixed today.

Will also stick to certain plastics. Sheets sticking together seems mainly
to occur with double-sided printing.

>> Shellac-base drafting ink in a pen plotter will also last a good long
>> time.
>
> Definitely.
>
> Arno

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 16, 2004 12:59:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Brody wrote:
>
>
> My question was simple. Who makes a reliable drive.

Brody,

I get a lot of drives through here.

The following is based on drives I receive for data recovery, and my own
perception of the storage market.

I am finding that of the current crop of drives, the Seagate ST series
is the best - I get very few in for recovery. They are my first choice
- by a long, long margin.

The worst are Deskstars. Again, by a long margin. Not only are they
falling over all the time, but they are absolute pigs to recover. This
goes for all their current models up to and including the 123.5GB (I
don't have sufficient data on larger drives to begin including them) as
well as their drives up to 3 years old. Avoid like the plague.

Maxtor are also terrible. I believe (from hearsay and from my own
experience - I do not have official figures for this) that Maxtor are
probably out-selling all other drives on the market. They seem to be
the standard choice for external drive housings, which is madness, as
they appear to be the most susceptible to heat-related failure. They
are also damn awkward to work with. Their overall percentage of failure
rate my not be as bad as that - but I don't know how many drives they
are shifting. I'm only guessing that they are the biggest sellers.

A few months ago I would have listed Western Digital as reliable.
However, I am suddenly seeing huge amounts of BB drives in. (WD800BB,
1200BB and 2000BB.) I see very few JB-configured drives in.

I know that a great deal of regulars on this newsgroup will disagree
with me. Before you start flaming, remember that these are all my own
opinions based on my own experiences and my own perception of the drive
market.


Odie
--

RetroData
Data Recovery Experts
www.retrodata.co.uk
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 16, 2004 2:10:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Odie Ferrous" wrote:
> [........]
> Maxtor are also terrible. I believe (from hearsay and
> from my own experience - I do not have official figures
> for this) that Maxtor are probably out-selling all other
> drives on the market. They seem to be the standard
> choice for external drive housings, which is madness,
> as they appear to be the most susceptible to heat-related
> failure....

Do your comments apply to Maxtor's internal ATA
7200rpm drives with fluid bearings as well? Specifically,
what is your opinion about the DiamondMax Plus 9
drives?

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 16, 2004 6:08:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
news:iYKdnfL2D7EqQFzcRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> "Odie Ferrous" wrote:
>> [........]
>> Maxtor are also terrible. I believe (from hearsay and
>> from my own experience - I do not have official figures
>> for this) that Maxtor are probably out-selling all other
>> drives on the market. They seem to be the standard
>> choice for external drive housings, which is madness,
>> as they appear to be the most susceptible to heat-related
>> failure....
>
> Do your comments apply to Maxtor's internal ATA
> 7200rpm drives with fluid bearings as well? Specifically,
> what is your opinion about the DiamondMax Plus 9
> drives?
>
> *TimDaniels*

Every single one of my Maxtor failures was an internal ATA fluid bearing
drive. Some failed internal to the PC, some failed in external cases, but I
am up to Four, count'em Four, failures.

Tom
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 16, 2004 7:34:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Tom Scales wrote:

>
> "Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
> news:iYKdnfL2D7EqQFzcRVn-vw@comcast.com...
>> "Odie Ferrous" wrote:
>>> [........]
>>> Maxtor are also terrible. I believe (from hearsay and
>>> from my own experience - I do not have official figures
>>> for this) that Maxtor are probably out-selling all other
>>> drives on the market. They seem to be the standard
>>> choice for external drive housings, which is madness,
>>> as they appear to be the most susceptible to heat-related
>>> failure....
>>
>> Do your comments apply to Maxtor's internal ATA
>> 7200rpm drives with fluid bearings as well? Specifically,
>> what is your opinion about the DiamondMax Plus 9
>> drives?
>>
>> *TimDaniels*
>
> Every single one of my Maxtor failures was an internal ATA fluid bearing
> drive. Some failed internal to the PC, some failed in external cases, but
> I am up to Four, count'em Four, failures.

Did you get all the drives from the same source? How were they packaged
when they arrived?
>
> Tom

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 17, 2004 12:03:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Odie Ferrous wrote:
> Brody wrote:
>
>>
>>My question was simple. Who makes a reliable drive.
>
>
> Brody,
>
> I get a lot of drives through here.
>
> The following is based on drives I receive for data recovery, and my own
> perception of the storage market.
>
> I am finding that of the current crop of drives, the Seagate ST series
> is the best - I get very few in for recovery. They are my first choice
> - by a long, long margin.
>
> The worst are Deskstars. Again, by a long margin. Not only are they
> falling over all the time, but they are absolute pigs to recover. This
> goes for all their current models up to and including the 123.5GB (I
> don't have sufficient data on larger drives to begin including them) as
> well as their drives up to 3 years old. Avoid like the plague.
>
> Maxtor are also terrible. I believe (from hearsay and from my own
> experience - I do not have official figures for this) that Maxtor are
> probably out-selling all other drives on the market. They seem to be
> the standard choice for external drive housings, which is madness, as
> they appear to be the most susceptible to heat-related failure. They
> are also damn awkward to work with. Their overall percentage of failure
> rate my not be as bad as that - but I don't know how many drives they
> are shifting. I'm only guessing that they are the biggest sellers.
>
> A few months ago I would have listed Western Digital as reliable.
> However, I am suddenly seeing huge amounts of BB drives in. (WD800BB,
> 1200BB and 2000BB.) I see very few JB-configured drives in.
>
> I know that a great deal of regulars on this newsgroup will disagree
> with me. Before you start flaming, remember that these are all my own
> opinions based on my own experiences and my own perception of the drive
> market.
>
>
> Odie

Thanks Odie, this gives me something to work with.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 17, 2004 2:14:38 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously Odie Ferrous <odie_ferrous@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Brody wrote:
>>
>>
>> My question was simple. Who makes a reliable drive.

> Brody,

> I get a lot of drives through here.

> The following is based on drives I receive for data recovery, and my own
> perception of the storage market.

> I am finding that of the current crop of drives, the Seagate ST series
> is the best - I get very few in for recovery. They are my first choice
> - by a long, long margin.

Intereresting.

> The worst are Deskstars. Again, by a long margin. Not only are they
> falling over all the time, but they are absolute pigs to recover. This
> goes for all their current models up to and including the 123.5GB (I
> don't have sufficient data on larger drives to begin including them) as
> well as their drives up to 3 years old. Avoid like the plague.

You would have thought that by now they fixed the quality issue.
Not so apparently. The older ones are no surprise at all.

> Maxtor are also terrible. I believe (from hearsay and from my own
> experience - I do not have official figures for this) that Maxtor are
> probably out-selling all other drives on the market. They seem to be
> the standard choice for external drive housings, which is madness, as
> they appear to be the most susceptible to heat-related failure. They
> are also damn awkward to work with. Their overall percentage of failure
> rate my not be as bad as that - but I don't know how many drives they
> are shifting. I'm only guessing that they are the biggest sellers.

Persaonally I have had an increased failure rate of about 17% (~20
drives, > 1 year) in 200GB Maxtors and 0% in 120GB Maxtors (royghly
same conditions). But all well cooled. Heat may be their main
weakness. I found that if you do SMART monitoring (especially
the reallocated_sector_count) and regular surface scans (manual
or long self test) you get good early warning. No sudden catastrophic
failures like the deathstars.

> A few months ago I would have listed Western Digital as reliable.
> However, I am suddenly seeing huge amounts of BB drives in. (WD800BB,
> 1200BB and 2000BB.) I see very few JB-configured drives in.

Also interesting.

> I know that a great deal of regulars on this newsgroup will disagree
> with me. Before you start flaming, remember that these are all my own
> opinions based on my own experiences and my own perception of the drive
> market.

Well, I for one like this info. Seems to be a valuable data point to
me. Thanks!

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 17, 2004 9:11:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Timothy Daniels wrote:
>
> "Odie Ferrous" wrote:
> > [........]
> > Maxtor are also terrible. I believe (from hearsay and
> > from my own experience - I do not have official figures
> > for this) that Maxtor are probably out-selling all other
> > drives on the market. They seem to be the standard
> > choice for external drive housings, which is madness,
> > as they appear to be the most susceptible to heat-related
> > failure....
>
> Do your comments apply to Maxtor's internal ATA
> 7200rpm drives with fluid bearings as well? Specifically,
> what is your opinion about the DiamondMax Plus 9
> drives?
>
> *TimDaniels*

The worst (from memory - I am now keeping far more detailed logs) in
order:

Very worst: DiamondMax Plus 8 (Fluid bearings)
Next DiamondMax Plus 9 (ditto)
Least worst Fireball 3

The older drives do cause problems, but aren't such a nightmare to
repair.

The DiamondMax Plus 9 seems to be current flavour for external USB
devices. They have a terrible heat problem, and no way should they be
used as such.


Odie
--

RetroData
Data Recovery Experts
www.retrodata.co.uk
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 17, 2004 12:23:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <41C15C7B.8AEEC658@hotmail.com>, Odie Ferrous
<odie_ferrous@hotmail.com> writes

>Maxtor are also terrible. I believe (from hearsay and from my own
>experience - I do not have official figures for this) that Maxtor are
>probably out-selling all other drives on the market.

You're probably right, since every trade distributor's price list I look
at (UK) has Maxtor as the cheapest drives. A lot of system builders
therefore choose them, and they are the most prevalent drive make on
offer at computer fairs.

--
..sigmonster on vacation
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 17, 2004 12:26:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <32ej6uF3lp9l5U1@individual.net>, Arno Wagner
<me@privacy.net> writes

>Persaonally I have had an increased failure rate of about 17% (~20
>drives, > 1 year) in 200GB Maxtors and 0% in 120GB Maxtors (royghly
>same conditions). But all well cooled. Heat may be their main
>weakness. I found that if you do SMART monitoring (especially
>the reallocated_sector_count) and regular surface scans (manual
>or long self test) you get good early warning. No sudden catastrophic
>failures like the deathstars.

I agree with this. The failure mode of Maxtors seems to be developing
large numbers of bad sectors. Monitoring the linux syslog (or windows
event viewer) for drive errors is another way to spot this. At least it
gives the user the chance to get some data off.

--
..sigmonster on vacation
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 17, 2004 12:27:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <41C0AB7E.70302@hotmail.com>, Brody <jbrody@hotmail.com>
writes

>Then I might as well go with the IBM Deskstar.

You may as well write all your data to /dev/null. ;-)

--
..sigmonster on vacation
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 17, 2004 12:35:25 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:cpt0hi0jjo@news3.newsguy.com...
> Tom Scales wrote:

>> Every single one of my Maxtor failures was an internal ATA fluid bearing
>> drive. Some failed internal to the PC, some failed in external cases, but
>> I am up to Four, count'em Four, failures.
>
> Did you get all the drives from the same source? How were they packaged
> when they arrived?
>>
>> Tom
>
> --
> --John

Different sources (two came with Dell machines), different models, different
capacities. One OEM mailorder. One retail local purchase.

The only thinkg common was they were Maxtors.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 17, 2004 1:19:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Odie Ferrous" wrote:
> Timothy Daniels wrote:
> The older drives do cause problems, but aren't such
> a nightmare to repair.
>
> The DiamondMax Plus 9 seems to be current flavour
> for external USB devices. They have a terrible heat
> problem, and no way should they be used as such.


Odie, you're da Man to talk to about this: I blew
out a 'Plus 9 by accidentally applying 12v to the 5v
terminal. There was a "pop" heard on startup, and
what appears to be a wire-wound resistor labeled
"IR5" on the circuit board got discolored and had
a burnt odor. For all I know, the "resistor" is a fuse.
Is the drive recoverable? What range of price are
we talking about if it can be recovered?

Regarding heat - my 'Plus 9s inside the PC's
case run about body temp (i.e. ~37 deg. C) - a
little warmer in the horizontal position, a little cooler
in the vertical position, and a *lot* cooler in the
removable tray that has a fan built into the base.
The airflow makes a big difference, and it's obvious
to me that those external USB enclosures just don't
provide enough cooling capacity by relying solely
on air convection.

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 17, 2004 8:07:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously Odie Ferrous <odie_ferrous@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>>
>> "Odie Ferrous" wrote:
>> > [........]
>> > Maxtor are also terrible. I believe (from hearsay and
>> > from my own experience - I do not have official figures
>> > for this) that Maxtor are probably out-selling all other
>> > drives on the market. They seem to be the standard
>> > choice for external drive housings, which is madness,
>> > as they appear to be the most susceptible to heat-related
>> > failure....
>>
>> Do your comments apply to Maxtor's internal ATA
>> 7200rpm drives with fluid bearings as well? Specifically,
>> what is your opinion about the DiamondMax Plus 9
>> drives?
>>
>> *TimDaniels*

> The worst (from memory - I am now keeping far more detailed logs) in
> order:

> Very worst: DiamondMax Plus 8 (Fluid bearings)
> Next DiamondMax Plus 9 (ditto)
> Least worst Fireball 3

> The older drives do cause problems, but aren't such a nightmare to
> repair.

What does actually break in these? All/mostly heat related (I assume
bearing failure?) or also other things?

> The DiamondMax Plus 9 seems to be current flavour for external USB
> devices. They have a terrible heat problem, and no way should they be
> used as such.

I definitely agree. They get far hotter than Maxtor specifies
unless they have significant airflow.

BTW any insights about Samsung?

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 18, 2004 12:40:31 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously Timothy Daniels <TDaniels@nospamdot.com> wrote:
> "Odie Ferrous" wrote:
>> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>> The older drives do cause problems, but aren't such
>> a nightmare to repair.
>>
>> The DiamondMax Plus 9 seems to be current flavour
>> for external USB devices. They have a terrible heat
>> problem, and no way should they be used as such.


> Odie, you're da Man to talk to about this: I blew
> out a 'Plus 9 by accidentally applying 12v to the 5v
> terminal. There was a "pop" heard on startup, and
> what appears to be a wire-wound resistor labeled
> "IR5" on the circuit board got discolored and had
> a burnt odor. For all I know, the "resistor" is a fuse.
> Is the drive recoverable? What range of price are
> we talking about if it can be recovered?

Ouch. I did that once to a pair(!) of Fujitsus. On one a chip
exploded. The other just smoked. Fortunately I had backups of
everyting critical, but since then I make sure to check the wires are
in the correct order when doing PC power cables (I was doing a 1->4
Y-cable and one of the 'raw' 1->2 Y-cables had yellow and red
reversed.)

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 18, 2004 12:40:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Arno Wagner" wrote:
> (I was doing a 1->4 Y-cable and one of the 'raw' 1->2 Y-cables
> had yellow and red reversed.)


I know, I know - the wiring is so *trivial* that you think
"What the hell could go wrong"?. POP! :-(

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 18, 2004 5:17:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Timothy Daniels wrote:
>
> "Odie Ferrous" wrote:
> > Timothy Daniels wrote:
> > The older drives do cause problems, but aren't such
> > a nightmare to repair.
> >
> > The DiamondMax Plus 9 seems to be current flavour
> > for external USB devices. They have a terrible heat
> > problem, and no way should they be used as such.
>
> Odie, you're da Man to talk to about this: I blew
> out a 'Plus 9 by accidentally applying 12v to the 5v
> terminal. There was a "pop" heard on startup, and
> what appears to be a wire-wound resistor labeled
> "IR5" on the circuit board got discolored and had
> a burnt odor. For all I know, the "resistor" is a fuse.
> Is the drive recoverable? What range of price are
> we talking about if it can be recovered?

You'd probably need to replace all the electrics, right down to the
heads.
Nasty job, and you're probably looking at the darker side of £200 or so.

I expect the international majors would charge 5-10 times that amount.


> Regarding heat - my 'Plus 9s inside the PC's
> case run about body temp (i.e. ~37 deg. C) - a
> little warmer in the horizontal position, a little cooler
> in the vertical position, and a *lot* cooler in the
> removable tray that has a fan built into the base.
> The airflow makes a big difference, and it's obvious
> to me that those external USB enclosures just don't
> provide enough cooling capacity by relying solely
> on air convection.

If I didn't have a fan in my case, I would mount my drives upside down.

I don't know which part of the drive you're measuring for temperatures,
but certain chips stay fairly cool while others are too hot to touch.

I now have fans blowing directly over all my drives - the remain
cool to the touch.


Odie
--

RetroData
Data Recovery Experts
www.retrodata.co.uk
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 18, 2004 5:17:06 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Odie Ferrous" wrote:
> You'd probably need to replace all the electrics,
> right down to the heads. Nasty job, and you're
> probably looking at the darker side of £200 or so.
>
> I expect the international majors would charge
> 5-10 times that amount.


<!!!> Eeeeps. Well, I don't need the drive
*that* much.... :-)


> If I didn't have a fan in my case, I would mount my drives
> upside down.


Do you mean with the chipside down? Or up?


> I don't know which part of the drive you're measuring for
> temperatures, but certain chips stay fairly cool while
> others are too hot to touch.


I'm using the ol' Finger Probe. None of the bearing
humps or chips feel warmer than body temp.


> I now have fans blowing directly over all my drives -
> they remain cool to the touch.


I suspect that cooling is the primary factor in HD
longevity.

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 18, 2004 11:41:53 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Timothy Daniels wrote:
>
>
> > If I didn't have a fan in my case, I would mount my drives
> > upside down.
>
> Do you mean with the chipside down? Or up?
>

Chip side up.


--

RetroData
Data Recovery Experts
www.retrodata.co.uk
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 18, 2004 11:41:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Odie Ferrous" wrote:
> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>>
>>
>> > If I didn't have a fan in my case, I would mount my drives
>> > upside down.
>>
>> Do you mean with the chipside down? Or up?
>>
>
> Chip side up.


How about on an edge - either a short edge or a long edge?
The vertical profile would promote convective flow.

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 19, 2004 1:09:14 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Odie Ferrous wrote:
>
> Brody wrote:
> >
> >
> > My question was simple. Who makes a reliable drive.
>
> Brody,
>
> I get a lot of drives through here.
>
> The following is based on drives I receive for data recovery, and my own
> perception of the storage market.
>
> I am finding that of the current crop of drives, the Seagate ST series
> is the best - I get very few in for recovery. They are my first choice
> - by a long, long margin.
>
> The worst are Deskstars. Again, by a long margin. Not only are they
> falling over all the time, but they are absolute pigs to recover. This
> goes for all their current models up to and including the 123.5GB (I
> don't have sufficient data on larger drives to begin including them) as
> well as their drives up to 3 years old. Avoid like the plague.

<edited, for brevity>

> I know that a great deal of regulars on this newsgroup will disagree
> with me. Before you start flaming, remember that these are all my own
> opinions based on my own experiences and my own perception of the drive
> market.
>
> Odie
> --
>
> RetroData
> Data Recovery Experts
> www.retrodata.co.uk


Hello, Odie:

Does Hitachi still rely on IBM-developed technology, or has it
introduced its own HDD designs, by now?


Cordially,
John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 19, 2004 1:09:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Arno Wagner wrote:
>
> Previously Timothy Daniels <TDaniels@nospamdot.com> wrote:
> > "Odie Ferrous" wrote:
> >> Timothy Daniels wrote:
> >> The older drives do cause problems, but aren't such
> >> a nightmare to repair.
> >>
> >> The DiamondMax Plus 9 seems to be current flavour
> >> for external USB devices. They have a terrible heat
> >> problem, and no way should they be used as such.
>
> > Odie, you're da Man to talk to about this: I blew
> > out a 'Plus 9 by accidentally applying 12v to the 5v
> > terminal. There was a "pop" heard on startup, and
> > what appears to be a wire-wound resistor labeled
> > "IR5" on the circuit board got discolored and had
> > a burnt odor. For all I know, the "resistor" is a fuse.
> > Is the drive recoverable? What range of price are
> > we talking about if it can be recovered?
>
> Ouch. I did that once to a pair(!) of Fujitsus. On one a chip
> exploded. The other just smoked. Fortunately I had backups of
> everyting critical, but since then I make sure to check the wires are
> in the correct order when doing PC power cables (I was doing a 1->4
> Y-cable and one of the 'raw' 1->2 Y-cables had yellow and red
> reversed.)
>
> Arno
> --
> For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
> GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
> "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus


Hello, Arno:

"Smoking" is even more hazardous to ICs' health, than it is to
peoples'! :-)


Cordially,
John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
December 20, 2004 1:28:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> wrote:
> Arno Wagner wrote:
>>
>> Ouch. I did that once to a pair(!) of Fujitsus. On one a chip
>> exploded. The other just smoked. Fortunately I had backups of
>> everyting critical, but since then I make sure to check the wires are
>> in the correct order when doing PC power cables (I was doing a 1->4
>> Y-cable and one of the 'raw' 1->2 Y-cables had yellow and red
>> reversed.)
>>
>> Arno


> Hello, Arno:

> "Smoking" is even more hazardous to ICs' health, than it is to
> peoples'! :-)

Believe me, smoke comming out of a harddrive is very dangerous
to the owners health! ;-)

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
!