DriveImage 7 does not restore Pinnacle Studio 9.0

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Hi,

I needed to restore my machine (windows XP SP1) using a backup made
with Drive Image 7. Everything restored just fine EXCEPT Pinnacle
Studio 9. When I click the icon for studio, it complains that "Vital
files are missing, please re-install this software".

Nay ideas why and how this coule be happening? If the image is truly an
exact replice of the disk then no appliction should be 'aware' that it
was restored.

I am guessing that Studio uses some kind of weird licensing file and
expects to find it at a specific location, something that the retored
image probably does not do. If so, is it possible to make an image
exact i.e. restore the drive to the exact sector by sector layout.

I have seen at least one other person complain about this in the forums
on pinnacle support - but no solution has been posted.
Thanks in advance for any insights!

Jester
15 answers Last reply
More about driveimage restore pinnacle studio
  1. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

    You are right, at least one other has mentioned a similar problem. I
    don't have an answer for your current problem other than the obvious,
    reinstall the software, which in the long run will probably take less
    time than trying to figure out what happened.

    I have had unsatisfactory experiences with all the products that try to
    back up an active OS partition, whether Acronis, Drive Image 7, or
    Ghost 9. I just removed Ghost 9 from my PC. Drive Image 2002 is just a
    wonderful, reliable product. I may reserve Drive Image 7 for its USB
    and DVD support, but otherwise it is DI2002, for now and probably
    forever. Others swear by Ghost 2003 (came with Ghost 9), and though
    this is the first month I am trying it I like its USB support. For my
    money, it is better to backup and restore partitions when they are not
    in use, either from floppy, CD, or another OS partition. The latter
    pretty much works every time, and backing up active partitions often
    does not work and is just a pain. I understand that the market is
    Windows driven, and booting from a floppy or CD is just too hard or too
    complicated for some (new PCs often don't even have a floppy drive ...
    huge, huge mistake), but that is a real shame and there is a price to
    pay for that.

    Irwin
  2. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

    Irwin,

    Many thansk for your reply.

    I have used drive image (pre version 7) for many years and have never
    had any problems. I was somewhat skeptical about backing up an active
    partition but needed the USB support - so I did go with Drive Image 7.
    Still, I have always been careful and only create backups after
    shutting down all applications. Still this does not seem to be enough!

    I entirely agree with you observation that backing up an active
    partition is a bad idea. I believe that Acronis does at least allow the
    ability to backup using it's boot up CD (i.e. without having to run
    windows). Since it also supports USB, I might now switch to that as I
    no longer have any confidence in Drive Image 7!

    I am still wondering though if it truly is Drive Image that messed up
    (by not backing up a locked file) or is it possible that Pinnacle
    studio has some weird anti-duplication scheme that can somehow detect
    an image restore (by looking at the drive signature or writing someting
    in the MBR etc).

    In the meantime, I will reinstall and look for another backup solution.
    Jester.
  3. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

    Irwin,

    Many thanks for your reply.

    I have used Drive image for many years from a floppy and never had any
    problems. I was some what skeptical about backing up an active
    partition, but I needed the USB support so did end up using Drive Image
    7. I never run any applications while I am creating a backup image. It
    seems that this however is not enough either!

    I entirely agree with you observations. I think the supposed
    convenience of backing up from within wiondows is completely
    overshadowed by a lack of confidence in the backed up image.

    While, re-installing the Pinnacle software is the obvious choice, I am
    now wondering where the fault lies.

    Is it, Drive Image 7, that messed up in making the image (i.e. did not
    backup some locked file - even though Pinnacle studio was not running
    when the backup was done) OR is it Pinnacle Studio that has some weird
    anti-duplication scheme that can somehow detect that a drive has been
    restored (changed HD signature, writing info in the MBR etc).

    I believe that Acronis allows USB backups by booting from it's CD. If
    so, perhaps I will switch to that.

    Jester.
  4. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

    On 12 Jan 2005 06:54:05 -0800, "Irwin" <ebct@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >I have had unsatisfactory experiences with all the products that try to
    >back up an active OS partition, whether Acronis, Drive Image 7, or
    >Ghost 9.

    What problem have you had with Acronis True Image?

    I restored a friend's PC last week from TI7 backups made directly from
    XP, and if it missed something, I haven't found it yet. I haven't
    seen any difference yet between restores from CD boot backups or XP
    backups. What should I be looking for?


    --
    Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer
  5. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

    I guess the worrying thing here is lack of control over exactly what is
    getting backed up. If I did not have Pinnacle Studio 9 on my system, I
    would also not have seen any problems! Drive Image 7 restored
    everything else just fine. Whether TI behaves differently or not I
    cannot say. The issue is can ANY product absolutely guarantee a full
    and complete backup of an active partition.

    In the specific case of Drive Image 7, this appears not to have worked
    (though I recognize that Pinnacle may be doing something to thwart
    replication - in which case TI would exhibit the same problem if
    Pinnacle is installed).

    Jester.


    Neil Maxwell wrote:
    > I restored a friend's PC last week from TI7 backups made directly
    from
    > XP, and if it missed something, I haven't found it yet. I haven't
    > seen any difference yet between restores from CD boot backups or XP
    > backups. What should I be looking for?
  6. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

    I have moved from DOS+Ghost to WinPE+Ghost32, for the reasons explained
    here.
    Boot from CD and backup to USB HD or a network share.
    No more hunt for DOS drivers.

    "Irwin" <ebct@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1105541645.130762.314620@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    > You are right, at least one other has mentioned a similar problem. I
    > don't have an answer for your current problem other than the obvious,
    > reinstall the software, which in the long run will probably take less
    > time than trying to figure out what happened.
    >
    > I have had unsatisfactory experiences with all the products that try to
    > back up an active OS partition, whether Acronis, Drive Image 7, or
    > Ghost 9. I just removed Ghost 9 from my PC. Drive Image 2002 is just a
    > wonderful, reliable product. I may reserve Drive Image 7 for its USB
    > and DVD support, but otherwise it is DI2002, for now and probably
    > forever. Others swear by Ghost 2003 (came with Ghost 9), and though
    > this is the first month I am trying it I like its USB support. For my
    > money, it is better to backup and restore partitions when they are not
    > in use, either from floppy, CD, or another OS partition. The latter
    > pretty much works every time, and backing up active partitions often
    > does not work and is just a pain. I understand that the market is
    > Windows driven, and booting from a floppy or CD is just too hard or too
    > complicated for some (new PCs often don't even have a floppy drive ...
    > huge, huge mistake), but that is a real shame and there is a price to
    > pay for that.
    >
    > Irwin
    >
  7. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

    > Is it, Drive Image 7, that messed up in making the image (i.e. did not
    > backup some locked file - even though Pinnacle studio was not running

    My personal feeling is that it is impossible to make a perfect 100%
    exact copy of a live system period under Windows. Just way too many
    things going on that can change from 1 sec. to another, and just what do
    you back up? The file that was on the disk last second, or this second,
    or to be saved once more the next second - all different?!?

    Very, very ugly and I wouldn't recommend it for serious backups at
    all (even though people have successfully done it using Acronis, DI,
    V2I, etc.).

    Here, either a RAID 1 subsystem or an offline backup is the very best
    and only way to ensure 100% identical copies.

    ---

    If the backups to USB/CDs/etc. isn't convenient, install two 5.25"
    hard drive holders for two identical 3.5" HDs that are ejectable.
    Anytime you want a backup, slot in the 2nd drive, boot up to an offline
    backup program (eg. Ghost 2003 - exact sector copy mode), backup in
    minutes quickly to the second drive, power down, and off you go.

    Makes for fast backups, offline storage of backups, and lets you boot
    another identical PC immediately at any time w/o spending time to
    restore. Costs <$20 for the ejectable bays, works, and so reliable,
    you'll kick yourself otherwise fiddling with other backup means, esp. if
    you've got huge >100GB HDs (which take forever to backup even to 16x
    DVDs;52x CD-Rs).

    With HDs <$150 nowadays for 250GB drives, it's easy to keep two or
    three as rotating spares as well.
  8. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

    >My personal feeling is that it is impossible to make a perfect 100%
    >exact copy of a live system period under Windows. Just way too many
    >things going on that can change from 1 sec. to another, and just what
    do
    >you back up? The file that was on the disk last second, or this
    second,
    >or to be saved once more the next second - all different?!?

    The funny thing is that I would expect that there will be intermittent
    variation between one image and another. I have images going back
    several months. I have tried to restore at least two other images and
    they all restore exactly EXCEPT Pinnacle Studio!

    It is this fact alone that is confusing me. I would understand it a lot
    better if the restore works from some images and not from others.

    Oh, well. I guess this one is destined to be one of the many unresolved
    mysteries of the windows world!

    I am now planning to use partition magic and setup a second minimal xp
    partition on disk1. I will use this xp installation to just run drive
    image to backup the second 'my real' xp partition. This way the working
    partition will always be inactive when it is backed up.
    Thanks all for your inputs!

    Jester.
  9. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

    > several months. I have tried to restore at least two other images and
    > they all restore exactly EXCEPT Pinnacle Studio!

    Here, it maybe several things.

    1. you didn't use a backup program that
    a. doesn't backup offline
    b. isn't a good one (here, use ghost 2003)
    c. wasn't in exact sector (byte-for-byte) copy mode
    d. wasn't in copy all sectors regardless mode

    2. HD was corrupted already, so the backup contained corrupted info

    3. backup deteriorated/wasn't verifed after write so the backup data
    is corrupted.

    4. PC you're backing up has problems hardware wise, so the data
    you're writing/reading is not error free.

    ---

    Here, I can tell you from years of using Ghost that you can easily
    backup any PC in minutes offline, make a 100% reliable backup to disc,
    and restore that later. The trick is to know that every step must be
    error free. (eg. backup to CD, but did you verify after write? did you
    do another pass to check the entire contents of the image files?)
  10. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

    On 12 Jan 2005 11:09:16 -0800, jameelch@hotmail.com wrote:

    >I guess the worrying thing here is lack of control over exactly what is
    >getting backed up. If I did not have Pinnacle Studio 9 on my system, I
    >would also not have seen any problems! Drive Image 7 restored
    >everything else just fine. Whether TI behaves differently or not I
    >cannot say.

    I don't have recent versions of Pinnacle Studio, or I'd give it a try.
    I wonder if the demo version would show the same thing, or if it's
    only the registered version that's protected? I may dl it and give it
    a try on one of my spare boxes. If you wanted to test it on your
    system, Acronis has a demo version of TI available.

    >The issue is can ANY product absolutely guarantee a full
    >and complete backup of an active partition.

    Ghost (the older version, at least) reportedly has a forensic mode,
    which backs up every sector on the HD, as I understand it. I've never
    used it, but it sounds like a useful reason to keep a copy on hand.


    --
    Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer
  11. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

    I have now had a chance to explore this issue further.

    Here is my setup:

    Master Disk (160GB Western Digital) - Single partition. Has Windows XP
    SP2.
    Slave Disk (160 GB Western Digital) - Single partition (for Data only).
    External USB drive (80 GB - Iogear ION) - for image backups only.
    Machine Dell Dimension 8300 - Bios version A03.

    Using Drive Image 7 to backup Master Disk to USB drive from within
    windows XP.

    Application software installed: Pinnacle Studio 9 (patched to 9.3.5).

    Observed Behavior:

    1. Restore a backup from PQRE (power Quest Recovery Environment) that
    was made when the system was fully operational. Restore is perfect -
    EXCEPT Pinnacle Studio complains ("Vital Files are missing - Please
    reinstall the software").

    2. Reinstall Pinnacle Studio. Establish that everthing is working! Make
    a backup image.
    Restore backed up image (choose option to restore MBR and original disk
    signature). Everything is restored perfectly - EXCEPT Pinnacle Studio -
    same error message.

    3. Checked on Powerquest support forum (Message board for install
    problems.) There are a number of threads that talk about this observed
    behavior i.e. ("Vital Files are missing - Please reinstall the
    software") message, even when using things like Norton GoBack and some
    other tools. No solutions are posted other than to reinstall! At least
    one post talks about Studio using some kind of 'copy protection' scheme
    that inhibits restores of any kind.

    So, I am mad as hell if Pinnacle has deliberately done this. As a
    registered user of the product I expect to be able to restore it to the
    exact same hardware configuration from where it was backed up.

    I am now keenly interested in figuring out what mechanism Pinncale is
    using to detect that the hard disk was restored. Something like a
    changed disk signature, other than what Drive Image restores - or some
    thing in the MBR - or what?

    I realize that this is now getting deep into HD frosensics. But I am
    pissed off enough to try and figure out - else I am junking Pinnacle!

    Thanks in advance for any insights that you folks may have, or anything
    I can try out.

    Jester
  12. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

    Type in my previous post.

    I said "Checked on Powerquest support forum .... "

    This should have been "Checked on Pinnacle Studio support forum
    ........"

    Thanks,
  13. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

    On 20 Jan 2005 06:48:06 -0800, "Jester" <jameelch@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >1. Restore a backup from PQRE (power Quest Recovery Environment) that
    >was made when the system was fully operational. Restore is perfect -
    >EXCEPT Pinnacle Studio complains ("Vital Files are missing - Please
    >reinstall the software").

    Sounds like the early days of copy protection - Lotus and such. One
    technique was to put a signature on a cluster/sector, then mark it bad
    so that it couldn't/wouldn't be copied, moved, or written over. Given
    the more dynamic aspect of cluster management in today's HDs, I don't
    know if that would work, but it sounds like the same kind of thing.

    Sounds like Pinnacle's not being very helpful. Here's a pattern
    someone came up with (you may have seen this already):
    http://webboard.pinnaclesys.com/read_messages.asp?WebboardID=1&ForumID=1118&SectionID=227&ThreadID=176142&ThreadStart=0&Pos=3&cntThread=50&lng=1


    --
    Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer
  14. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

    Neil Maxwell wrote:
    > On 20 Jan 2005 06:48:06 -0800, "Jester" <jameelch@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > Sounds like the early days of copy protection - Lotus and such. One
    > technique was to put a signature on a cluster/sector, then mark it
    bad
    > so that it couldn't/wouldn't be copied, moved, or written over.
    Given
    > the more dynamic aspect of cluster management in today's HDs, I don't
    > know if that would work, but it sounds like the same kind of thing.

    Neil,

    Thanks for the link. I had seen this earlier when I was browsing the
    Pinnacle support forums. From what I can make out, Pinnacle Studio ties
    itself to something in the MBR/Partition table such that it can detect
    that some on the hard disk is different. I tried to zero out the drive
    using a western digital utility just to make sure that Pinnacle is not
    leaving a signature somewhere on the drive - but that did not help.

    I will now go through the restore process methodically, trying
    different restore options (e.g. with without restore mbr/restore
    signature etc. Wonder if there is a utility that will let me edit the
    first sector directly (don't want to have to buy Norton diskdoctor).
    Regards,

    Jester.
  15. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

    OK!!! Some weird success!

    I tried to do a restore to a spare 80GB harddrive. So, back up from my
    160 GB drive using Drive Image 7. Remove this drive and restore to a 80
    GB drive. Zero out the 80 GB drive before restoring. Did not choose
    restore MBR or restore original disk signature.

    And Voila, Pinnacle restored no problem! Tried to restore the same
    image back to the 160 GB drive (i.e. the same drive from where the
    image was initially made) - no go. Pinnacle does not work. (everthing
    else works just fine).

    Next, back up the working image from the 80GB drive and restore to
    itself - Pinnacle does not work! Now restore to 160 GB drive and now it
    does work!!!!

    So, summary, if image is restored to a physically different drive,
    Pinnacle studio works. If it is restored to the same drive from which
    the image was made then Pinnacle Studio does not work - Error message
    says "Vital Files are missing ... Please reinstall this software".

    This makes no sense at all. I just thought that I will report the
    behavior in case any one has an idea - my guess is that the Pinnacle
    "copy" protection is really stopping the system being re-installed on a
    disk that already had it. However, by moving to a physically separate
    disk, some thing changes enough to where the "copy protection" scheme
    loses it's marker.

    Jester.
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