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Internal HDD in same machine for image backup of primary?

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  • Backup
  • Hard Drives
  • Storage
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January 12, 2005 12:53:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

I have 2 HDDs in the same computer and I want to use one just to store an
image backup of the primary HD. It is currently set as a slave on cable
select.

What I'm wondering is: if the primary drive crashes or otherwise gets
messed up, what is the likelihood that the second drive will be affected
also? And what could cause that to happen: e.g., power failure or surge,
or some kind of interaction between the drives?

Comments and any ideas about preventing such problems will be appreciated.

More about : internal hdd machine image backup primary

Anonymous
a b G Storage
January 12, 2005 5:05:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

> What I'm wondering is: if the primary drive crashes or otherwise gets
> messed up, what is the likelihood that the second drive will be affected
> also? And what could cause that to happen: e.g., power failure or surge,
> or some kind of interaction between the drives?

On a RAID 1 (or mirrored) setup, maybe if the same data is messed up
as it is being written to both drives as the power goes. But usually,
unless you get a virus/trojan, it works fine as long as you buy the
solution to the above: an external UPS supply.

Otherwise, 3.5" HDs in 5.25" ejectable bays so you can make offline
backups on a schedule, then eject (ie. not connected) and stored
elsewhere for safety.

You can combine this -- two internal mirrored HDs, one ejectable for
offline backups.

--

If you want to go crazy - dual power supplies backing each other up,
two HDs up to a full RAID 5 multi-HD setup + ejectable backup HD. All
comes down to how much that data is worth to you.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
January 12, 2005 6:41:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously Martin <nfn04028@naples.net> wrote:
> I have 2 HDDs in the same computer and I want to use one just to store an
> image backup of the primary HD. It is currently set as a slave on cable
> select.

> What I'm wondering is: if the primary drive crashes or otherwise gets
> messed up, what is the likelihood that the second drive will be affected
> also? And what could cause that to happen: e.g., power failure or surge,
> or some kind of interaction between the drives?

> Comments and any ideas about preventing such problems will be appreciated.

Interesting question. If the second drive is usually inactive and
in a sleep state, then it is pretty safe except for power surges,
I would say. Still a virus or the like could activate it and
do bad things to it. How likely that risk is depends on your OS
and on what additional protection measures you use.

I would sayt this does not qualify as a real backup (only one media,
some risks shared with the primary data location), but is fasr better
than no backup.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
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Anonymous
a b G Storage
January 13, 2005 3:53:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Martin" <nfn04028@naples.net> wrote in message
news:1105541611.fcaed6b81fc8f4a0b8d7fc3273c04759@teranews...
> I have 2 HDDs in the same computer and I want to use one just to store an
> image backup of the primary HD. It is currently set as a slave on cable
> select.
>
> What I'm wondering is: if the primary drive crashes or otherwise gets
> messed up, what is the likelihood that the second drive will be affected
> also? And what could cause that to happen: e.g., power failure or
surge,
> or some kind of interaction between the drives?
>

Your system is okay for quick restoration. However, an offline backup
system should be implemented as well.
As long as the PC is not accessing the second hard drive, there is not much
possibility of the occurrence you're mentioning.

> Comments and any ideas about preventing such problems will be appreciated.
>

Prevention of hardware damage due to power glitches is widely known. Am
surprised you're asking. The PC should be powered by an UPS. The external
peripherals should ALL have some form of surge protection. If you use a
telco modem, the surge protector should have a telco line protection.

You can put the backup image files on a hard drive connected to an add-on
ide controller, if loss of the primary onboard ide controller is an issue
for you.
January 13, 2005 3:53:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:53:47 GMT, "Lil' Dave"
<spamyourself@virus.net> wrote:

>"Martin" <nfn04028@naples.net> wrote in message
>news:1105541611.fcaed6b81fc8f4a0b8d7fc3273c04759@teranews...
>> I have 2 HDDs in the same computer and I want to use one just to store an
>> image backup of the primary HD. It is currently set as a slave on cable
>> select.
>>
>> What I'm wondering is: if the primary drive crashes or otherwise gets
>> messed up, what is the likelihood that the second drive will be affected
>> also? And what could cause that to happen: e.g., power failure or
>surge,
>> or some kind of interaction between the drives?
>>
>
>Your system is okay for quick restoration. However, an offline backup
>system should be implemented as well.
>As long as the PC is not accessing the second hard drive, there is not much
>possibility of the occurrence you're mentioning.
>
>> Comments and any ideas about preventing such problems will be appreciated.
>>
>
>Prevention of hardware damage due to power glitches is widely known. Am
>surprised you're asking. The PC should be powered by an UPS. The external
>peripherals should ALL have some form of surge protection. If you use a
>telco modem, the surge protector should have a telco line protection.
>
>You can put the backup image files on a hard drive connected to an add-on
>ide controller, if loss of the primary onboard ide controller is an issue
>for you.
>

Howdy,

No expert I, but...

Remember: In the event of a loss through theft, the "two
disks in one box" approach will have little benefit.

All the best,


--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
January 13, 2005 3:53:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:24:34 -0500, Kenneth
<usenet@SPAMLESSsoleassociates.com> wrote:

>loss through theft

Ooops...

Wanted:

"loss through theft or fire."

Thanks,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
Anonymous
a b G Storage
January 13, 2005 10:04:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously Kenneth <usenet@spamlesssoleassociates.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:24:34 -0500, Kenneth
> <usenet@SPAMLESSsoleassociates.com> wrote:

>>loss through theft

> Ooops...

> Wanted:

> "loss through theft or fire."

Also water, earthquake, the computer faling over hard, machine rage,
comet impact, nuclear war and spontaneous PC combustion ;-)=)

Still, the idea is superios to RAID1 in some respects, e.g.
that it protects better from user error.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
January 13, 2005 10:04:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On 13 Jan 2005 19:04:18 GMT, Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net>
wrote:

>comet impact

'Hadn't thought about that.

I'm gonna move my guitars...<g>

Thanks,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
January 14, 2005 6:07:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
news:erGdnQmZcrcMKnvcRVn-ig@comcast.com...
> "Kenneth" wrote:
> > Remember: In the event of a loss through theft, the "two
> > disks in one box" approach will have little benefit.
>
>
> The solution to having 2 HDs in one box is to have one
> HD in a removable tray (a.k.a. "mobile tray", "caddy",
> "drawer"). The enclosing rack is installed in a spare
> 5 1/2" bay, and the HD is held in tray that slides in and
> out of the rack. The rack has an Off/On switch for power
> (for use only when the PC is unpowered), and the tray has
> a built-in fan. I use this system, and it works very well:
> http://kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&CateID=25&ID...
> You can find them on the Web for about $20 for the
> rack/tray combo, and about $12 for a spare tray alone.
> The fan in the bottom keeps the HD cooler than body
> temperature. When not in use, I keep the removable
> tray in a neighbor's tree. (Only kidding.)
>


Thanks to all for the comments.

I've been aware of all the pitfalls mentioned, but I wanted to see if I
might have missed some kind of configuration that would let me get away with
leaving the backup drive in the machine; fire, flood or felons
notwithstanding. Actually I've been using removable drives for backup
images and files with my old machines for several years, but my new computer
has no bays left for mounting those rack and tray assemblies.

I'm now considering using an external USB drive. Anyone have any good or
bad experience with these?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
January 14, 2005 6:07:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:07:27 GMT, "Martin" <cresident41@swfla.rr.com>
wrote:

>I'm now considering using an external USB drive. Anyone have any good or
>bad experience with these?

I've been using them for this for some time. I've found firewire to
be faster than USB2 for me, but USB2 isn't bad. Lots of benefits,
compared to an internal drive:
- Can be hotswapped or taken offline easily
- Easy to stash elsewhere when you go on vacation
- Can be hidden out of sight to help protect from theft (but network
backups are better for this)
- Can be moved to other PCs easily, in case you're backing up multiple
PCs over the network. Direct connect is much faster to restore than
over the network.

It's slower than an internal, and more clutter, but I prefer it.


--
Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer
January 14, 2005 9:50:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
news:erGdnQmZcrcMKnvcRVn-ig@comcast.com...
> "Kenneth" wrote:
> > Remember: In the event of a loss through theft, the "two
> > disks in one box" approach will have little benefit.
>
>
> The solution to having 2 HDs in one box is to have one
> HD in a removable tray (a.k.a. "mobile tray", "caddy",
> "drawer"). The enclosing rack is installed in a spare
> 5 1/2" bay, and the HD is held in tray that slides in and
> out of the rack. The rack has an Off/On switch for power
> (for use only when the PC is unpowered), and the tray has
> a built-in fan. I use this system, and it works very well:
> http://kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&CateID=25&ID...
> You can find them on the Web for about $20 for the
> rack/tray combo, and about $12 for a spare tray alone.
> The fan in the bottom keeps the HD cooler than body
> temperature. When not in use, I keep the removable
> tray in a neighbor's tree. (Only kidding.)
>


"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
news:erGdnQmZcrcMKnvcRVn-ig@comcast.com...
> "Kenneth" wrote:
> > Remember: In the event of a loss through theft, the "two
> > disks in one box" approach will have little benefit.
>
>
> The solution to having 2 HDs in one box is to have one
> HD in a removable tray (a.k.a. "mobile tray", "caddy",
> "drawer"). The enclosing rack is installed in a spare
> 5 1/2" bay, and the HD is held in tray that slides in and
> out of the rack. The rack has an Off/On switch for power
> (for use only when the PC is unpowered), and the tray has
> a built-in fan. I use this system, and it works very well:
> http://kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&CateID=25&ID...
> You can find them on the Web for about $20 for the
> rack/tray combo, and about $12 for a spare tray alone.
> The fan in the bottom keeps the HD cooler than body
> temperature. When not in use, I keep the removable
> tray in a neighbor's tree. (Only kidding.)
>


Thanks to all for the comments.

I've been aware of all the pitfalls mentioned, but I wanted to see if I
might have missed some kind of configuration that would let me get away with
leaving the backup drive in the machine; fire, flood or felons
notwithstanding. Actually I've been using removable drives for backup
images and files with my old machines for several years, but my new computer
has no bays left for mounting those rack and tray assemblies.

I'm now considering using an external USB drive. Anyone have any good or
bad experience with these?
!