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Opinions Please: Good Backup System Using SATA Removable HD?

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Anonymous
a b G Storage
January 19, 2005 1:59:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Folks,

Just wanted some opions before I drop some cash.

I have an Asus P4B533 motherboard, and currently have a 120GB Western
Digital HD.

My current backup system has been using 3 sets of DVD+RWs rotated two
at a time, so that I always have a redundant copy of all data backed
up.

I store these DVDs in a media vault, in case of fire.

The problem is that I am up to approximately 15-16GB of data, and each
backup set takes up around 4 DVDs, and takes approximately 4 hours to
backup the data. It would probably be shorter if I constantly waited
for the next DVD to be inserted for writing or comparing.

To make my life a little easier (and spend some time with my family),
I am thinking of getting the following from Newegg:

1. Promise SATA150 TX2plus PCI to SATA Controller Card
2. Western Digital WD2500JD 250GB SATA HD
3. Kingwin KF-82 Serial ATA Mobile Rack with Dual Fans

The idea is this:

I will add the controller card to my PC, and place the 250GB drive in
the mobile rack. If this works out, I will buy another 250GB HD and
tray for redundancy.

I would like to back up my entire HD, which will include the above
15-16GB, in case of hard drive failure. This way, I can just buy a
new HD, and restore off the drive in the mobile rack. I can also now
store digitized home videos, digital camera pictures, etc.

I am wondering if with the above configuration will I be able to hot
swap the hard drives using the Kingwin mobile rack. In my
application, hot swapping is not required, but would be convenient.

I noticed in the SATAII150 TX2plus manual, Promise warns to use only
their Superswap 1100 rack. There is evidently a connection (the
"Management Connection") that goes from the rack to the controller.
The Kingwin KF-82 has no such connection. I am not sure if this is
essential, or if Promise is just trying to "encourage" people to buy
their enclosure.

Anybody have any experience with this?

I am also going to call Promise to ask what the difference between the
SATA150 TX2plus and SATAII150 TX2plus. Anybody know offhand? (I'll
come back tomorrow or the day after to let you know what I find out).

Forunately, on the Kingwin KF-82, two removable trays should fit in my
media vault (but sadly, room for little else).

Does this sound reasonable? Anybody have any better ideas? I would
use external hard drives, but they will not fit as easily in the media
vault (and the media vaults are not cheap!)

Thanks for the help,

The Nth Traveler


-----------------------
Get rid of 1st and 3rd words before at sign to reply by email
Anonymous
a b G Storage
January 19, 2005 4:47:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

The_nth_Traveler wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Just wanted some opions before I drop some cash.
>
> I have an Asus P4B533 motherboard, and currently have a 120GB Western
> Digital HD.
>
> My current backup system has been using 3 sets of DVD+RWs rotated two
> at a time, so that I always have a redundant copy of all data backed
> up.
>
> I store these DVDs in a media vault, in case of fire.
>
> The problem is that I am up to approximately 15-16GB of data, and each
> backup set takes up around 4 DVDs, and takes approximately 4 hours to
> backup the data. It would probably be shorter if I constantly waited
> for the next DVD to be inserted for writing or comparing.
>
> To make my life a little easier (and spend some time with my family),
> I am thinking of getting the following from Newegg:
>
> 1. Promise SATA150 TX2plus PCI to SATA Controller Card
> 2. Western Digital WD2500JD 250GB SATA HD
> 3. Kingwin KF-82 Serial ATA Mobile Rack with Dual Fans
>
> The idea is this:
>
> I will add the controller card to my PC, and place the 250GB drive in
> the mobile rack. If this works out, I will buy another 250GB HD and
> tray for redundancy.
>
> I would like to back up my entire HD, which will include the above
> 15-16GB, in case of hard drive failure. This way, I can just buy a
> new HD, and restore off the drive in the mobile rack. I can also now
> store digitized home videos, digital camera pictures, etc.
>
> I am wondering if with the above configuration will I be able to hot
> swap the hard drives using the Kingwin mobile rack. In my
> application, hot swapping is not required, but would be convenient.
>
> I noticed in the SATAII150 TX2plus manual, Promise warns to use only
> their Superswap 1100 rack. There is evidently a connection (the
> "Management Connection") that goes from the rack to the controller.
> The Kingwin KF-82 has no such connection. I am not sure if this is
> essential, or if Promise is just trying to "encourage" people to buy
> their enclosure.

I suspect that it will make life simpler--without something like that
hot-swap becomes a lot less convenient--it'd doable--you can write a batch
file to disable and enable the drive, but that method is not
reliable--sometimes the drive will disable but the OS will still try to use
it for a while.

By the way, on the Kingwin, don't bother with the dual-fan--only one of the
fans is in the frame, the other is in the tray, and good luck finding
another tray with a fan in it.

> Anybody have any experience with this?
>
> I am also going to call Promise to ask what the difference between the
> SATA150 TX2plus and SATAII150 TX2plus. Anybody know offhand? (I'll
> come back tomorrow or the day after to let you know what I find out).

The SATAII supports SATAII, with a 300 MB/sec transfer rate and some bells
and whistles. Pretty much pointless.
>
> Forunately, on the Kingwin KF-82, two removable trays should fit in my
> media vault (but sadly, room for little else).
>
> Does this sound reasonable? Anybody have any better ideas? I would
> use external hard drives, but they will not fit as easily in the media
> vault (and the media vaults are not cheap!)

What you're doing sounds fine, but I'd use at least 3 drives for a rotation
backup.

> Thanks for the help,
>
> The Nth Traveler
>
>
> -----------------------
> Get rid of 1st and 3rd words before at sign to reply by email

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
January 19, 2005 7:44:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

It'll work fine with the main proviso that DVD
survive being dropped and hard drives often dont.

"The_nth_Traveler" <no.rjlpub.spam@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:m1oru0h0pp5dted9jt3cj78crgueermkhn@4ax.com...
> Folks,
>
> Just wanted some opions before I drop some cash.
>
> I have an Asus P4B533 motherboard, and currently have a 120GB Western
> Digital HD.
>
> My current backup system has been using 3 sets of DVD+RWs rotated two
> at a time, so that I always have a redundant copy of all data backed
> up.
>
> I store these DVDs in a media vault, in case of fire.
>
> The problem is that I am up to approximately 15-16GB of data, and each
> backup set takes up around 4 DVDs, and takes approximately 4 hours to
> backup the data. It would probably be shorter if I constantly waited
> for the next DVD to be inserted for writing or comparing.
>
> To make my life a little easier (and spend some time with my family),
> I am thinking of getting the following from Newegg:
>
> 1. Promise SATA150 TX2plus PCI to SATA Controller Card
> 2. Western Digital WD2500JD 250GB SATA HD
> 3. Kingwin KF-82 Serial ATA Mobile Rack with Dual Fans
>
> The idea is this:
>
> I will add the controller card to my PC, and place the 250GB drive in
> the mobile rack. If this works out, I will buy another 250GB HD and
> tray for redundancy.
>
> I would like to back up my entire HD, which will include the above
> 15-16GB, in case of hard drive failure. This way, I can just buy a
> new HD, and restore off the drive in the mobile rack. I can also now
> store digitized home videos, digital camera pictures, etc.
>
> I am wondering if with the above configuration will I be able to hot
> swap the hard drives using the Kingwin mobile rack. In my
> application, hot swapping is not required, but would be convenient.
>
> I noticed in the SATAII150 TX2plus manual, Promise warns to use only
> their Superswap 1100 rack. There is evidently a connection (the
> "Management Connection") that goes from the rack to the controller.
> The Kingwin KF-82 has no such connection. I am not sure if this is
> essential, or if Promise is just trying to "encourage" people to buy
> their enclosure.
>
> Anybody have any experience with this?
>
> I am also going to call Promise to ask what the difference between the
> SATA150 TX2plus and SATAII150 TX2plus. Anybody know offhand? (I'll
> come back tomorrow or the day after to let you know what I find out).
>
> Forunately, on the Kingwin KF-82, two removable trays should fit in my
> media vault (but sadly, room for little else).
>
> Does this sound reasonable? Anybody have any better ideas? I would
> use external hard drives, but they will not fit as easily in the media
> vault (and the media vaults are not cheap!)
>
> Thanks for the help,
>
> The Nth Traveler
>
>
> -----------------------
> Get rid of 1st and 3rd words before at sign to reply by email
Related resources
Anonymous
a b G Storage
January 19, 2005 7:44:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
> It'll work fine with the main proviso that DVD
> survive being dropped and hard drives often dont.

Common failure modes:
DVDs can appear to be fine, and its only a few vital files missing.
HDDs tend to be all or nothing.

This is good and bad ;) 

There's also many HDD data recovery servies around, not seen
many to restore from damaged DVDs ?

HDD storage is so cheap nowadays, the best way to back
them up is becoming.....other HDDs

You still should use the same backup strategies as with other
tape though - multiple backup sets, offsite (or at least offline)
storage.


--
Mike
Anonymous
a b G Storage
January 20, 2005 9:58:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Mike Redrobe <mike@redrobe.net> wrote in message
news:QyqHd.13610$GG1.4021@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

>> It'll work fine with the main proviso that DVD
>> survive being dropped and hard drives often dont.

> Common failure modes:
> DVDs can appear to be fine, and its only a few vital files missing.

I never have just one copy with any optical medium.

> HDDs tend to be all or nothing.

> This is good and bad ;) 

> There's also many HDD data recovery servies around,

Pity that most cant justify the price they charge.

> not seen many to restore from damaged DVDs ?

http://www.infinadyne.com/

> HDD storage is so cheap nowadays, the best way to back them up is
> becoming.....other HDDs

Sure, if you arent prone to dropping things.

> You still should use the same backup strategies as with other tape though -
> multiple backup sets, offsite (or at least offline) storage.

Why not with DVDs too ?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
January 20, 2005 12:45:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Rod Speed wrote:

>> HDD storage is so cheap nowadays, the best way to back them up is
>> becoming.....other HDDs
>
>Sure, if you arent prone to dropping things.

I do both - backup to another HD 'cause it's so fast and easy.
Occasional backup to CD when I have the time.
January 21, 2005 11:05:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <sfkvu09gh9fhs5m4oekski960hfp3cl9r6@4ax.com>,
chrisv@nospam.invalid says...
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
> >> HDD storage is so cheap nowadays, the best way to back them up is
> >> becoming.....other HDDs
> >
> >Sure, if you arent prone to dropping things.
>
> I do both - backup to another HD 'cause it's so fast and easy.
> Occasional backup to CD when I have the time.
>
>
I am also using two different backup programs.

I backup to a usb hard drive every night using Dantz Retrospect.

Every week or so, I use Ghost 9 and image to another external drive. I
started doing this because Dantz Retrospect was flakey, hanging every so
often, and I felt it wasn't adequate as my only backup.

Every month or so, as often as I can tolerate the process, I backup to
DVDs using Ghost 9 and leave those at a friend's house as my external
backup. I also try to backup important data more frequently and leave
it at her house - passworded via a zip file.

I'm trying to decide whether I should make Ghost my nightly backup and
Dantz Retrospect my "every week or so" backup - I now use Dantz as the
primary.

Am I too paranoid? I'm not sure. I really am trying to live a more and
more paperless life and the data is becoming more and more essential to
my life.

Louise
Anonymous
a b G Storage
January 22, 2005 1:38:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Louise" <none@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c5b2c8f1c1976e59897c8@news-server.nyc.rr.com...
> In article <sfkvu09gh9fhs5m4oekski960hfp3cl9r6@4ax.com>,
> chrisv@nospam.invalid says...
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>> >> HDD storage is so cheap nowadays, the best way to back them up is
>> >> becoming.....other HDDs
>> >
>> >Sure, if you arent prone to dropping things.
>>
>> I do both - backup to another HD 'cause it's so fast and easy.
>> Occasional backup to CD when I have the time.
>>
>>
> I am also using two different backup programs.
>
> I backup to a usb hard drive every night using Dantz Retrospect.

> Every week or so, I use Ghost 9 and image to another external drive.
> I started doing this because Dantz Retrospect was flakey, hanging
> every so often, and I felt it wasn't adequate as my only backup.

> Every month or so, as often as I can tolerate the process, I backup to
> DVDs using Ghost 9 and leave those at a friend's house as my external
> backup. I also try to backup important data more frequently and leave
> it at her house - passworded via a zip file.

In that case I wouldnt keep the backups kept at your place
in the soggy safe unless fire or theft is a significant problem.
Keep them in the book shelves for when the drive dies etc.
And use the presumably less frequent offsites if you are
unlikely enough to have a problem with fire or theft.

> I'm trying to decide whether I should make Ghost my
> nightly backup and Dantz Retrospect my "every week
> or so" backup - I now use Dantz as the primary.

I'd use ghost as the primary myself given
that you have had problems with Dantz.

> Am I too paranoid? I'm not sure. I really am trying
> to live a more and more paperless life and the data
> is becoming more and more essential to my life.

And so even a drive failure can be a major disaster.

No you arent too paranoid.
!