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PartitionMagic Question

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Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 1, 2005 2:03:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will automatically
"fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot sector where it resides
during the rearrangement of disk partitions.

Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as the third
partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are logical partitions.
Initially, the boot.ini file would point to the third partition.

If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP partition
the first partition, will PartitionMagic automatically rewrite the
boot.ini file to make it point to the first partition so as to make
subsequent boot-ups possible?

Thanks,
Harvey
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 1, 2005 10:05:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Harvey Gratt wrote:
> I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will automatically
> "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot sector where it resides
> during the rearrangement of disk partitions.
>
> Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as the third
> partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are logical partitions.
> Initially, the boot.ini file would point to the third partition.
>
> If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP partition
> the first partition, will PartitionMagic automatically rewrite the
> boot.ini file to make it point to the first partition so as to make
> subsequent boot-ups possible?
>
> Thanks,
> Harvey

I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the boot.ini file
when you delete the first 2 partitions, so where will the boot.ini file
be? Deleted as well, I say.
You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same partition you
want to boot from.


--
Bob H
Leeds UK
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 1, 2005 10:05:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Bob H wrote:

> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will automatically
>> "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot sector where it resides
>> during the rearrangement of disk partitions.
>>
>> Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as the third
>> partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are logical partitions.
>> Initially, the boot.ini file would point to the third partition.
>>
>> If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP
>> partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic automatically
>> rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to the first partition so
>> as to make subsequent boot-ups possible?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Harvey
>
>
> I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the boot.ini file
> when you delete the first 2 partitions, so where will the boot.ini file
> be? Deleted as well, I say.
> You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same partition you
> want to boot from.
>
>

I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the boot.ini file
resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in the original setup,
would have been located in the third partition (active, primary).

If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector (PBS)",
boot.ini file always located at a specific location on the HDD - I
thought this was true only of the MBR, which in turn pointed to the PBS
(which is located at an arbitrary location). Is my understanding
incorrect - it would appear so.

Thanks,
Harvey
Related resources
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 2, 2005 9:53:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
> Bob H wrote:
>
>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will automatically "fix"
>>> the boot.ini file and the partition boot sector where it resides during the
>>> rearrangement of disk partitions.
>>>
>>> Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as the third
>>> partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are logical partitions.
>>> Initially, the boot.ini file would point to the third partition.
>>>
>>> If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP partition the
>>> first partition, will PartitionMagic automatically rewrite the boot.ini file
>>> to make it point to the first partition so as to make subsequent boot-ups
>>> possible?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Harvey
>>
>>
>> I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the boot.ini file when
>> you delete the first 2 partitions, so where will the boot.ini file be?
>> Deleted as well, I say.
>> You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same partition you want
>> to boot from.
>>
>>
>
> I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the boot.ini file
> resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in the original setup, would
> have been located in the third partition (active, primary).
>
> If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector (PBS)", boot.ini
> file always located at a specific location on the HDD - I thought this was
> true only of the MBR, which in turn pointed to the PBS (which is located at an
> arbitrary location). Is my understanding incorrect - it would appear so.

Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.

The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont even fit in a
PBS.

More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate partition.

Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
Cant see why it shouldnt.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 2, 2005 9:53:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Rod Speed wrote:

> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>
>>Bob H wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will automatically "fix"
>>>>the boot.ini file and the partition boot sector where it resides during the
>>>>rearrangement of disk partitions.
>>>>
>>>>Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as the third
>>>>partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are logical partitions.
>>>>Initially, the boot.ini file would point to the third partition.
>>>>
>>>>If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP partition the
>>>>first partition, will PartitionMagic automatically rewrite the boot.ini file
>>>>to make it point to the first partition so as to make subsequent boot-ups
>>>>possible?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Harvey
>>>
>>>
>>>I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the boot.ini file when
>>>you delete the first 2 partitions, so where will the boot.ini file be?
>>>Deleted as well, I say.
>>>You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same partition you want
>>>to boot from.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the boot.ini file
>>resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in the original setup, would
>>have been located in the third partition (active, primary).
>>
>>If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector (PBS)", boot.ini
>>file always located at a specific location on the HDD - I thought this was
>>true only of the MBR, which in turn pointed to the PBS (which is located at an
>>arbitrary location). Is my understanding incorrect - it would appear so.
>
>
> Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>
> The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont even fit in a
> PBS.
>
> More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
> on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
> boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate partition.
>
> Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
> ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
> of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
> Cant see why it shouldnt.
>
>
I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My current
state of confusion is:

1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.

2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition (there
may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a time) and
jumps to the PBS of the active partition.

3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading the
boot.ini file located in that partition's root directory (as you indicated)

4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a menu
appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the approriate
partition for the loading of the selected OS.

My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does happen?

Thanks,
Harvey
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 2, 2005 9:53:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Harvey Gratt wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>
>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will automatically
>>>>> "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot sector where it
>>>>> resides during the rearrangement of disk partitions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as the
>>>>> third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are logical
>>>>> partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would point to the third
>>>>> partition.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP
>>>>> partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic automatically
>>>>> rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to the first partition
>>>>> so as to make subsequent boot-ups possible?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the boot.ini
>>>> file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so where will the
>>>> boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>> You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same partition
>>>> you want to boot from.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the boot.ini
>>> file resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in the original
>>> setup, would have been located in the third partition (active, primary).
>>>
>>> If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector (PBS)",
>>> boot.ini file always located at a specific location on the HDD - I
>>> thought this was true only of the MBR, which in turn pointed to the
>>> PBS (which is located at an arbitrary location). Is my understanding
>>> incorrect - it would appear so.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>
>> The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont even
>> fit in a PBS.
>>
>> More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>> on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
>> boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate partition.
>>
>> Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>> ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>> of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>> Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>
> I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My current
> state of confusion is:
>
> 1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>
> 2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition (there
> may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a time) and
> jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>
> 3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading the
> boot.ini file located in that partition's root directory (as you indicated)
>
> 4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a menu
> appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the approriate
> partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>
> My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does happen?
>
> Thanks,
> Harvey

Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?

--
Bob H
Leeds UK
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 2, 2005 9:53:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Bob H wrote:

> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>> automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot
>>>>>> sector where it resides during the rearrangement of disk partitions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as the
>>>>>> third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are logical
>>>>>> partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would point to the third
>>>>>> partition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP
>>>>>> partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic automatically
>>>>>> rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to the first partition
>>>>>> so as to make subsequent boot-ups possible?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Harvey
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the boot.ini
>>>>> file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so where will the
>>>>> boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>> You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same partition
>>>>> you want to boot from.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the boot.ini
>>>> file resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in the original
>>>> setup, would have been located in the third partition (active,
>>>> primary).
>>>>
>>>> If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector (PBS)",
>>>> boot.ini file always located at a specific location on the HDD - I
>>>> thought this was true only of the MBR, which in turn pointed to the
>>>> PBS (which is located at an arbitrary location). Is my understanding
>>>> incorrect - it would appear so.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>
>>> The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont even
>>> fit in a PBS.
>>>
>>> More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>>> on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
>>> boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate partition.
>>>
>>> Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>> ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>> of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>>> Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>
>> I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My current
>> state of confusion is:
>>
>> 1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>
>> 2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition
>> (there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a time)
>> and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>
>> 3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading the
>> boot.ini file located in that partition's root directory (as you
>> indicated)
>>
>> 4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a menu
>> appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the approriate
>> partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>
>> My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does happen?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Harvey
>
>
> Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>


Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess the MBR
points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader function
(NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active partition and it would
access the boot.ini file.

Harvey
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 2, 2005 9:53:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Harvey Gratt wrote:
> Bob H wrote:
>
>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>> automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot
>>>>>>> sector where it resides during the rearrangement of disk partitions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as the
>>>>>>> third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are logical
>>>>>>> partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would point to the third
>>>>>>> partition.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP
>>>>>>> partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic automatically
>>>>>>> rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to the first partition
>>>>>>> so as to make subsequent boot-ups possible?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Harvey
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the boot.ini
>>>>>> file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so where will the
>>>>>> boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>> You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same
>>>>>> partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the boot.ini
>>>>> file resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in the original
>>>>> setup, would have been located in the third partition (active,
>>>>> primary).
>>>>>
>>>>> If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector (PBS)",
>>>>> boot.ini file always located at a specific location on the HDD - I
>>>>> thought this was true only of the MBR, which in turn pointed to the
>>>>> PBS (which is located at an arbitrary location). Is my
>>>>> understanding incorrect - it would appear so.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>
>>>> The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont even
>>>> fit in a PBS.
>>>>
>>>> More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>>>> on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
>>>> boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate partition.
>>>>
>>>> Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>>> ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>>> of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>>>> Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>
>>> I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My current
>>> state of confusion is:
>>>
>>> 1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>
>>> 2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition
>>> (there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a
>>> time) and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>>
>>> 3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading the
>>> boot.ini file located in that partition's root directory (as you
>>> indicated)
>>>
>>> 4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a menu
>>> appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the approriate
>>> partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>
>>> My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does happen?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Harvey
>>
>>
>>
>> Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>
>
>
> Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
> located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess the MBR
> points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader function
> (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active partition and it would
> access the boot.ini file.
>
> Harvey
>

Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.

When you have done that, have a look in the root of each partition to
loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any of the others?

Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1 OS why
don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary partition, if you are
going to delete the others.


--
Bob H
Leeds UK
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 2, 2005 9:53:38 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Bob H wrote:

> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>
>> Bob H wrote:
>>
>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>> automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot
>>>>>>>> sector where it resides during the rearrangement of disk
>>>>>>>> partitions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as the
>>>>>>>> third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are logical
>>>>>>>> partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would point to the
>>>>>>>> third partition.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP
>>>>>>>> partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic automatically
>>>>>>>> rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to the first
>>>>>>>> partition so as to make subsequent boot-ups possible?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Harvey
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the boot.ini
>>>>>>> file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so where will the
>>>>>>> boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>> You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same
>>>>>>> partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the boot.ini
>>>>>> file resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in the original
>>>>>> setup, would have been located in the third partition (active,
>>>>>> primary).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector
>>>>>> (PBS)", boot.ini file always located at a specific location on the
>>>>>> HDD - I thought this was true only of the MBR, which in turn
>>>>>> pointed to the PBS (which is located at an arbitrary location). Is
>>>>>> my understanding incorrect - it would appear so.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont even
>>>>> fit in a PBS.
>>>>>
>>>>> More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>>>>> on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
>>>>> boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate partition.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>>>> ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>>>> of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>>>>> Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>
>>>> I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My current
>>>> state of confusion is:
>>>>
>>>> 1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>
>>>> 2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition
>>>> (there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a
>>>> time) and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading
>>>> the boot.ini file located in that partition's root directory (as you
>>>> indicated)
>>>>
>>>> 4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a menu
>>>> appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the approriate
>>>> partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>>
>>>> My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does happen?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Harvey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
>> located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess the MBR
>> points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader function
>> (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active partition and it
>> would access the boot.ini file.
>>
>> Harvey
>>
>
> Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
> In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
> Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>
> When you have done that, have a look in the root of each partition to
> loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any of the others?
>
> Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1 OS why
> don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary partition, if you are
> going to delete the others.
>
>
It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step process I
described is essentially correct. However, this thread seems to have
wandered off course.

I guess the answer to the original question is that PartitionMagic (PM)
WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file. So one question is, will
the boot process get all the way to the active partition boot sector
(PBS),via the MBR, (which I assume that PM CAN correctly set up) and
then hang because the boot.ini file points to a non-existent partition
(originally the third partition)?

A second question is:

Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original third
partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will the boot
process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the boot.ini file
without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?

Thanks,
Harvey
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 2, 2005 11:10:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Harvey Gratt wrote:
> Bob H wrote:
>
>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>
>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>
>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>> automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot
>>>>>>>>> sector where it resides during the rearrangement of disk
>>>>>>>>> partitions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as the
>>>>>>>>> third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are logical
>>>>>>>>> partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would point to the
>>>>>>>>> third partition.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP
>>>>>>>>> partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic
>>>>>>>>> automatically rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to the
>>>>>>>>> first partition so as to make subsequent boot-ups possible?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Harvey
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the boot.ini
>>>>>>>> file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so where will the
>>>>>>>> boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>> You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same
>>>>>>>> partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the
>>>>>>> boot.ini file resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in
>>>>>>> the original setup, would have been located in the third
>>>>>>> partition (active, primary).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector
>>>>>>> (PBS)", boot.ini file always located at a specific location on
>>>>>>> the HDD - I thought this was true only of the MBR, which in turn
>>>>>>> pointed to the PBS (which is located at an arbitrary location).
>>>>>>> Is my understanding incorrect - it would appear so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont
>>>>>> even fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>>>>>> on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
>>>>>> boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate partition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>>>>> ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>>>>> of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>>>>>> Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My
>>>>> current state of confusion is:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition
>>>>> (there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a
>>>>> time) and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading
>>>>> the boot.ini file located in that partition's root directory (as
>>>>> you indicated)
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a
>>>>> menu appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the
>>>>> approriate partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>>>
>>>>> My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does happen?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
>>> located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess the
>>> MBR points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader
>>> function (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active partition
>>> and it would access the boot.ini file.
>>>
>>> Harvey
>>>
>>
>> Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>> In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>> Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>
>> When you have done that, have a look in the root of each partition to
>> loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any of the others?
>>
>> Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1 OS why
>> don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary partition, if you
>> are going to delete the others.
>>
>>
> It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step process I
> described is essentially correct. However, this thread seems to have
> wandered off course.
>
> I guess the answer to the original question is that PartitionMagic (PM)
> WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file. So one question is, will
> the boot process get all the way to the active partition boot sector
> (PBS),via the MBR, (which I assume that PM CAN correctly set up) and
> then hang because the boot.ini file points to a non-existent partition
> (originally the third partition)?
>
> A second question is:
>
> Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original third
> partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will the boot
> process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the boot.ini file
> without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>
> Thanks,
> Harvey

What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only using ONE
OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in the root directory
of the first active partition for the OS.

I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on another
partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too complicated to me.

--
Bob H
Leeds UK
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 2, 2005 1:38:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Bob H wrote:
> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>
>> Bob H wrote:
>>
>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>>> automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot
>>>>>>>>>> sector where it resides during the rearrangement of disk
>>>>>>>>>> partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as
>>>>>>>>>> the third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are
>>>>>>>>>> logical partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would point
>>>>>>>>>> to the third partition.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP
>>>>>>>>>> partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic
>>>>>>>>>> automatically rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to
>>>>>>>>>> the first partition so as to make subsequent boot-ups possible?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> Harvey
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the
>>>>>>>>> boot.ini file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so where
>>>>>>>>> will the boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>>> You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same
>>>>>>>>> partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the
>>>>>>>> boot.ini file resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in
>>>>>>>> the original setup, would have been located in the third
>>>>>>>> partition (active, primary).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector
>>>>>>>> (PBS)", boot.ini file always located at a specific location on
>>>>>>>> the HDD - I thought this was true only of the MBR, which in turn
>>>>>>>> pointed to the PBS (which is located at an arbitrary location).
>>>>>>>> Is my understanding incorrect - it would appear so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont
>>>>>>> even fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>>>>>>> on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
>>>>>>> boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate partition.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>>>>>> ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>>>>>> of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>>>>>>> Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My
>>>>>> current state of confusion is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition
>>>>>> (there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a
>>>>>> time) and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading
>>>>>> the boot.ini file located in that partition's root directory (as
>>>>>> you indicated)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a
>>>>>> menu appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the
>>>>>> approriate partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does happen?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Harvey
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
>>>> located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess the
>>>> MBR points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader
>>>> function (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active partition
>>>> and it would access the boot.ini file.
>>>>
>>>> Harvey
>>>>
>>>
>>> Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>>> In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>>> Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>>
>>> When you have done that, have a look in the root of each partition to
>>> loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any of the others?
>>>
>>> Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1 OS why
>>> don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary partition, if you
>>> are going to delete the others.
>>>
>>>
>> It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step process I
>> described is essentially correct. However, this thread seems to have
>> wandered off course.
>>
>> I guess the answer to the original question is that PartitionMagic
>> (PM) WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file. So one question is,
>> will the boot process get all the way to the active partition boot
>> sector (PBS),via the MBR, (which I assume that PM CAN correctly set
>> up) and then hang because the boot.ini file points to a non-existent
>> partition (originally the third partition)?
>>
>> A second question is:
>>
>> Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original third
>> partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will the
>> boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the boot.ini
>> file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Harvey
>
>
> What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
> I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only using ONE
> OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in the root directory
> of the first active partition for the OS.
>
> I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on another
> partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too complicated to me.
>

On my IBM laptop they (ntldr and boot.ini)are in the root directory
(C:\) of the active, bootable partition containing XP.

Harvey
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 2, 2005 8:45:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Harvey Gratt wrote:
> Bob H wrote:
>
>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>
>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>
>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>>>> automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot
>>>>>>>>>>> sector where it resides during the rearrangement of disk
>>>>>>>>>>> partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as
>>>>>>>>>>> the third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are
>>>>>>>>>>> logical partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would point
>>>>>>>>>>> to the third partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP
>>>>>>>>>>> partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic
>>>>>>>>>>> automatically rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to
>>>>>>>>>>> the first partition so as to make subsequent boot-ups possible?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the
>>>>>>>>>> boot.ini file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so where
>>>>>>>>>> will the boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>>>> You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same
>>>>>>>>>> partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the
>>>>>>>>> boot.ini file resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in
>>>>>>>>> the original setup, would have been located in the third
>>>>>>>>> partition (active, primary).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector
>>>>>>>>> (PBS)", boot.ini file always located at a specific location on
>>>>>>>>> the HDD - I thought this was true only of the MBR, which in
>>>>>>>>> turn pointed to the PBS (which is located at an arbitrary
>>>>>>>>> location). Is my understanding incorrect - it would appear so.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont
>>>>>>>> even fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>>>>>>>> on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
>>>>>>>> boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate partition.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>>>>>>> ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>>>>>>> of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>>>>>>>> Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My
>>>>>>> current state of confusion is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition
>>>>>>> (there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a
>>>>>>> time) and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading
>>>>>>> the boot.ini file located in that partition's root directory (as
>>>>>>> you indicated)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a
>>>>>>> menu appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the
>>>>>>> approriate partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does
>>>>>>> happen?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Harvey
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
>>>>> located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess the
>>>>> MBR points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader
>>>>> function (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active partition
>>>>> and it would access the boot.ini file.
>>>>>
>>>>> Harvey
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>>>> In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>>>> Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>>>
>>>> When you have done that, have a look in the root of each partition
>>>> to loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any of the others?
>>>>
>>>> Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1 OS
>>>> why don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary partition, if
>>>> you are going to delete the others.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step process I
>>> described is essentially correct. However, this thread seems to have
>>> wandered off course.
>>>
>>> I guess the answer to the original question is that PartitionMagic
>>> (PM) WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file. So one question is,
>>> will the boot process get all the way to the active partition boot
>>> sector (PBS),via the MBR, (which I assume that PM CAN correctly set
>>> up) and then hang because the boot.ini file points to a non-existent
>>> partition (originally the third partition)?
>>>
>>> A second question is:
>>>
>>> Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original third
>>> partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will the
>>> boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the boot.ini
>>> file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Harvey
>>
>>
>>
>> What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
>> I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only using
>> ONE OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in the root
>> directory of the first active partition for the OS.
>>
>> I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on another
>> partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too complicated to me.
>>
>
> On my IBM laptop they (ntldr and boot.ini)are in the root directory
> (C:\) of the active, bootable partition containing XP.
>
> Harvey

Ok, so if that is the present case, what was your point then?????

If you install either Win2k or WinXP on any partition other than the
first active primary partition, the OS will by default place boot.ini,
NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM among others on that first active primary
partition. If you delete that partition, then you cannot boot WinXp or
Win2k without first moving/copying those files to the root of the OS and
then making that the first active partition.
But, whatever way you do it, the said files must be in the first active
partition.
Perhaps someone else who is more knowledgeable about the multiboot
process may have further information here. I know you did not say
anything about multiboot, but what you want to do, if I unsderstand you
correctly goes someway towards that.

--
Bob H
Leeds UK
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 2, 2005 8:45:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Bob H wrote:

> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>
>> Bob H wrote:
>>
>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot
>>>>>>>>>>>> sector where it resides during the rearrangement of disk
>>>>>>>>>>>> partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as
>>>>>>>>>>>> the third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are
>>>>>>>>>>>> logical partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would point
>>>>>>>>>>>> to the third partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>> XP partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic
>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the first partition so as to make subsequent boot-ups possible?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the
>>>>>>>>>>> boot.ini file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so
>>>>>>>>>>> where will the boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>>>>> You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same
>>>>>>>>>>> partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the
>>>>>>>>>> boot.ini file resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in
>>>>>>>>>> the original setup, would have been located in the third
>>>>>>>>>> partition (active, primary).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector
>>>>>>>>>> (PBS)", boot.ini file always located at a specific location on
>>>>>>>>>> the HDD - I thought this was true only of the MBR, which in
>>>>>>>>>> turn pointed to the PBS (which is located at an arbitrary
>>>>>>>>>> location). Is my understanding incorrect - it would appear so.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont
>>>>>>>>> even fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>>>>>>>>> on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
>>>>>>>>> boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate partition.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>>>>>>>> ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>>>>>>>> of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>>>>>>>>> Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My
>>>>>>>> current state of confusion is:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition
>>>>>>>> (there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a
>>>>>>>> time) and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually
>>>>>>>> reading the boot.ini file located in that partition's root
>>>>>>>> directory (as you indicated)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a
>>>>>>>> menu appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the
>>>>>>>> approriate partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does
>>>>>>>> happen?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Harvey
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
>>>>>> located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess the
>>>>>> MBR points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader
>>>>>> function (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active
>>>>>> partition and it would access the boot.ini file.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Harvey
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>>>>> In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>>>>> Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you have done that, have a look in the root of each partition
>>>>> to loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any of the others?
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1 OS
>>>>> why don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary partition, if
>>>>> you are going to delete the others.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step process I
>>>> described is essentially correct. However, this thread seems to have
>>>> wandered off course.
>>>>
>>>> I guess the answer to the original question is that PartitionMagic
>>>> (PM) WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file. So one question
>>>> is, will the boot process get all the way to the active partition
>>>> boot sector (PBS),via the MBR, (which I assume that PM CAN correctly
>>>> set up) and then hang because the boot.ini file points to a
>>>> non-existent partition (originally the third partition)?
>>>>
>>>> A second question is:
>>>>
>>>> Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>> third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will
>>>> the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the
>>>> boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Harvey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
>>> I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only using
>>> ONE OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in the root
>>> directory of the first active partition for the OS.
>>>
>>> I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on
>>> another partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too complicated
>>> to me.
>>>
>>
>> On my IBM laptop they (ntldr and boot.ini)are in the root directory
>> (C:\) of the active, bootable partition containing XP.
>>
>> Harvey
>
>
> Ok, so if that is the present case, what was your point then?????
>
> If you install either Win2k or WinXP on any partition other than the
> first active primary partition, the OS will by default place boot.ini,
> NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM among others on that first active primary
> partition. If you delete that partition, then you cannot boot WinXp or
> Win2k without first moving/copying those files to the root of the OS and
> then making that the first active partition.
> But, whatever way you do it, the said files must be in the first active
> partition.
> Perhaps someone else who is more knowledgeable about the multiboot
> process may have further information here. I know you did not say
> anything about multiboot, but what you want to do, if I unsderstand you
> correctly goes someway towards that.
>
The original "point" was that the OS resided in the third partition of
the HDD. The first two partitions was logical partitions and were to be
deleted. The ntldr and boot.ini files are located in the root directory
of the third partition (the only active, bootable partition). The
boot.ini file would have an ARC path pointing to this third partition.

So, the original question was could PM be used to delete the first 2
partitions (yes to this) and would PM correctly fix the boot.ini file so
that the ARC path pointed to the first partition where the OS (ntldr and
boot.ini are in the root directory of this partition) now resides
(apparently not).

A second question was (assuming the boot.ini pointed to the wrong
partition):

Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will
the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the
boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?

Thanks,
Harvey
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 10:04:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:kqidnbiFle4TfWLcRVn-oQ@comcast.com...
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>
>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will automatically "fix"
>>>>>the boot.ini file and the partition boot sector where it resides during the
>>>>>rearrangement of disk partitions.
>>>>>
>>>>>Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as the third
>>>>>partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are logical partitions.
>>>>>Initially, the boot.ini file would point to the third partition.
>>>>>
>>>>>If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP partition the
>>>>>first partition, will PartitionMagic automatically rewrite the boot.ini
>>>>>file to make it point to the first partition so as to make subsequent
>>>>>boot-ups possible?
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the boot.ini file when
>>>>you delete the first 2 partitions, so where will the boot.ini file be?
>>>>Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same partition you want
>>>>to boot from.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the boot.ini file
>>>resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in the original setup, would
>>>have been located in the third partition (active, primary).
>>>
>>>If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector (PBS)", boot.ini
>>>file always located at a specific location on the HDD - I thought this was
>>>true only of the MBR, which in turn pointed to the PBS (which is located at
>>>an arbitrary location). Is my understanding incorrect - it would appear so.
>>
>>
>> Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>
>> The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont even fit in a
>> PBS.
>>
>> More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>> on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
>> boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate partition.
>>
>> Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>> ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>> of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>> Cant see why it shouldnt.

> I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My current state of
> confusion is:

> 1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.

Yes, the first physical sector on the drive.

> 2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition

More strictly there is only one active primary dos partition.
Thats the one that is booted.

> (there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a time)

Correct.

> and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.

Correct.

> 3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading the boot.ini
> file located in that partition's root directory (as you indicated)

Correct, tho it doesnt necessarily have to be in the root directory in theory.

> 4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a menu appears.
> A selection here would then cause a jump to the approriate partition for the
> loading of the selected OS.

Correct.

> My head hurts.

You only need to worry if you are getting brown smelly stuff
dripping from your ears. Unfortunately if you are, its too late.

> Does the above seem correct?

Yes.

> If not, what does happen?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 10:22:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ge6dncPlT8JggJzfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
> Bob H wrote:
>
>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>
>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>
>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sector where it resides during the rearrangement of disk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are logical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would point to the third
>>>>>>>>>>>>> partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP
>>>>>>>>>>>>> partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic automatically
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to the first partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>> so as to make subsequent boot-ups possible?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the boot.ini
>>>>>>>>>>>> file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so where will the
>>>>>>>>>>>> boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>>>>>> You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same partition
>>>>>>>>>>>> you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the boot.ini
>>>>>>>>>>> file resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in the original
>>>>>>>>>>> setup, would have been located in the third partition (active,
>>>>>>>>>>> primary).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector (PBS)",
>>>>>>>>>>> boot.ini file always located at a specific location on the HDD - I
>>>>>>>>>>> thought this was true only of the MBR, which in turn pointed to the
>>>>>>>>>>> PBS (which is located at an arbitrary location). Is my understanding
>>>>>>>>>>> incorrect - it would appear so.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont even
>>>>>>>>>> fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>>>>>>>>>> on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
>>>>>>>>>> boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate partition.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>>>>>>>>> ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>>>>>>>>> of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>>>>>>>>>> Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My current
>>>>>>>>> state of confusion is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition
>>>>>>>>> (there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a time)
>>>>>>>>> and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading the
>>>>>>>>> boot.ini file located in that partition's root directory (as you
>>>>>>>>> indicated)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a menu
>>>>>>>>> appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the approriate
>>>>>>>>> partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does happen?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Harvey
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
>>>>>>> located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess the MBR
>>>>>>> points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader function
>>>>>>> (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active partition and it would
>>>>>>> access the boot.ini file.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Harvey
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>>>>>> In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>>>>>> Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you have done that, have a look in the root of each partition to
>>>>>> loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any of the others?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1 OS why
>>>>>> don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary partition, if you are
>>>>>> going to delete the others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step process I
>>>>> described is essentially correct. However, this thread seems to have
>>>>> wandered off course.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess the answer to the original question is that PartitionMagic (PM)
>>>>> WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file. So one question is, will the
>>>>> boot process get all the way to the active partition boot sector (PBS),via
>>>>> the MBR, (which I assume that PM CAN correctly set up) and then hang
>>>>> because the boot.ini file points to a non-existent partition (originally
>>>>> the third partition)?
>>>>>
>>>>> A second question is:
>>>>>
>>>>> Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original third
>>>>> partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will the boot
>>>>> process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the boot.ini file
>>>>> without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
>>>> I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only using ONE
>>>> OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in the root directory of
>>>> the first active partition for the OS.
>>>>
>>>> I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on another
>>>> partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too complicated to me.
>>>>
>>>
>>> On my IBM laptop they (ntldr and boot.ini)are in the root directory (C:\) of
>>> the active, bootable partition containing XP.
>>>
>>> Harvey
>>
>>
>> Ok, so if that is the present case, what was your point then?????
>>
>> If you install either Win2k or WinXP on any partition other than the first
>> active primary partition, the OS will by default place boot.ini, NTLDR and
>> NTDETECT.COM among others on that first active primary partition. If you
>> delete that partition, then you cannot boot WinXp or Win2k without first
>> moving/copying those files to the root of the OS and then making that the
>> first active partition.
>> But, whatever way you do it, the said files must be in the first active
>> partition.
>> Perhaps someone else who is more knowledgeable about the multiboot process
>> may have further information here. I know you did not say anything about
>> multiboot, but what you want to do, if I unsderstand you correctly goes
>> someway towards that.
>>
> The original "point" was that the OS resided in the third partition of the
> HDD. The first two partitions was logical partitions and were to be deleted.
> The ntldr and boot.ini files are located in the root directory of the third
> partition (the only active, bootable partition). The boot.ini file would have
> an ARC path pointing to this third partition.
>
> So, the original question was could PM be used to delete the first 2
> partitions (yes to this) and would PM correctly fix the boot.ini file so that
> the ARC path pointed to the first partition where the OS (ntldr and boot.ini
> are in the root directory of this partition) now resides (apparently not).

This appears to be where you are confusing yourself.

Since everything is setup to boot the partition that the OS is installed
on, I cant see why deleting the logical partitions changes anything on
that. It isnt as if there is something that says 'boot the third partition'
and so that fails when it becomes the only partition after the deletion
of the logical partitions.

> A second question was (assuming the boot.ini pointed to the wrong partition):

> Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
> third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will
> the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the
> boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?

You can always boot the CD and do whatever repair is necessary from there.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330184

The obvious approach would be to run bootcfg /scan
and get it to re-enumerate the available OSs, just one
in your case, with its new partition number.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 10:22:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Rod Speed wrote:

> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:ge6dncPlT8JggJzfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>
>>Bob H wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sector where it resides during the rearrangement of disk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are logical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would point to the third
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic automatically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to the first partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>so as to make subsequent boot-ups possible?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the boot.ini
>>>>>>>>>>>>>file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so where will the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the boot.ini
>>>>>>>>>>>>file resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>setup, would have been located in the third partition (active,
>>>>>>>>>>>>primary).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector (PBS)",
>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file always located at a specific location on the HDD - I
>>>>>>>>>>>>thought this was true only of the MBR, which in turn pointed to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>PBS (which is located at an arbitrary location). Is my understanding
>>>>>>>>>>>>incorrect - it would appear so.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont even
>>>>>>>>>>>fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>>>>>>>>>>>on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>>>>>>>>>>ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>>>>>>>>>>of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My current
>>>>>>>>>>state of confusion is:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition
>>>>>>>>>>(there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a time)
>>>>>>>>>>and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading the
>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file located in that partition's root directory (as you
>>>>>>>>>>indicated)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a menu
>>>>>>>>>>appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the approriate
>>>>>>>>>>partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does happen?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
>>>>>>>>located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess the MBR
>>>>>>>>points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader function
>>>>>>>>(NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active partition and it would
>>>>>>>>access the boot.ini file.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>>>>>>>In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>>>>>>>Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>When you have done that, have a look in the root of each partition to
>>>>>>>loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any of the others?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1 OS why
>>>>>>>don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary partition, if you are
>>>>>>>going to delete the others.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step process I
>>>>>>described is essentially correct. However, this thread seems to have
>>>>>>wandered off course.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I guess the answer to the original question is that PartitionMagic (PM)
>>>>>>WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file. So one question is, will the
>>>>>>boot process get all the way to the active partition boot sector (PBS),via
>>>>>>the MBR, (which I assume that PM CAN correctly set up) and then hang
>>>>>>because the boot.ini file points to a non-existent partition (originally
>>>>>>the third partition)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A second question is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original third
>>>>>>partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will the boot
>>>>>>process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the boot.ini file
>>>>>>without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
>>>>>I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only using ONE
>>>>>OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in the root directory of
>>>>>the first active partition for the OS.
>>>>>
>>>>>I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on another
>>>>>partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too complicated to me.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On my IBM laptop they (ntldr and boot.ini)are in the root directory (C:\) of
>>>>the active, bootable partition containing XP.
>>>>
>>>>Harvey
>>>
>>>
>>>Ok, so if that is the present case, what was your point then?????
>>>
>>>If you install either Win2k or WinXP on any partition other than the first
>>>active primary partition, the OS will by default place boot.ini, NTLDR and
>>>NTDETECT.COM among others on that first active primary partition. If you
>>>delete that partition, then you cannot boot WinXp or Win2k without first
>>>moving/copying those files to the root of the OS and then making that the
>>>first active partition.
>>>But, whatever way you do it, the said files must be in the first active
>>>partition.
>>>Perhaps someone else who is more knowledgeable about the multiboot process
>>>may have further information here. I know you did not say anything about
>>>multiboot, but what you want to do, if I unsderstand you correctly goes
>>>someway towards that.
>>>
>>
>>The original "point" was that the OS resided in the third partition of the
>>HDD. The first two partitions was logical partitions and were to be deleted.
>>The ntldr and boot.ini files are located in the root directory of the third
>>partition (the only active, bootable partition). The boot.ini file would have
>>an ARC path pointing to this third partition.
>>
>>So, the original question was could PM be used to delete the first 2
>>partitions (yes to this) and would PM correctly fix the boot.ini file so that
>>the ARC path pointed to the first partition where the OS (ntldr and boot.ini
>>are in the root directory of this partition) now resides (apparently not).
>
>
> This appears to be where you are confusing yourself.
>
> Since everything is setup to boot the partition that the OS is installed
> on, I cant see why deleting the logical partitions changes anything on
> that. It isnt as if there is something that says 'boot the third partition'
> and so that fails when it becomes the only partition after the deletion
> of the logical partitions.
>
>
>>A second question was (assuming the boot.ini pointed to the wrong partition):
>
>
>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will
>>the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the
>>boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>
>
> You can always boot the CD and do whatever repair is necessary from there.
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330184
>
> The obvious approach would be to run bootcfg /scan
> and get it to re-enumerate the available OSs, just one
> in your case, with its new partition number.
>
>


On my Dell Desktop, which has 2 partitions (the first is a diagnostic
partition, the second is the XP partition) the boot.ini file looks like:

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn

I would think that the boot.ini entries of ...partition(2) would have to
change to ...partition(1) after the diagnostic partition is deleted.
Otherwise, boot.ini points to a non-existent partition from which the OS
is to be loaded, and the boot process would hang.


Thanks,
Harvey
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 10:22:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Harvey Gratt <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote:

....

>On my Dell Desktop, which has 2 partitions (the first is a
>diagnostic partition, the second is the XP partition) the boot.ini
>file looks like:
>[boot loader]
>timeout=30
>default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>[operating systems]
>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
>Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
>
>I would think that the boot.ini entries of ...partition(2) would
>have to change to ...partition(1) after the diagnostic partition is
>deleted. Otherwise, boot.ini points to a non-existent partition
>from which the OS is to be loaded, and the boot process would hang.

If you're talking about the same situation which results from trying
to copy the active partition to another location on the same disk
using the Windows version of PartitionMagic on the reboot (and other
such operations with PartitionMagic and Windows XP), I have
researched that and find nothing very useful in the archives. The
workaround is to boot from the PartitionMagic CD (or floppies,
whatever) and do it slowly from there.

I just empty the BOOT.INI file in any new installation of Windows XP
and then use the PartitionMagic CD for partition management. It's
slow but it works.

Good luck.
February 3, 2005 10:22:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:14:56 -0600, Harvey Gratt <hgratt@comcast.net>
wrote:


>On my Dell Desktop, which has 2 partitions (the first is a diagnostic
>partition, the second is the XP partition) the boot.ini file looks like:
>
>[boot loader]
>timeout=30
>default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>[operating systems]
>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
>Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
>
>I would think that the boot.ini entries of ...partition(2) would have to
>change to ...partition(1) after the diagnostic partition is deleted.
>Otherwise, boot.ini points to a non-existent partition from which the OS
>is to be loaded, and the boot process would hang.
>

Just add another entry for partition(1).

>
>Thanks,
>Harvey
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 12:31:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:t6ydnZOZBMNW35zfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:ge6dncPlT8JggJzfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>>
>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sector where it resides during the rearrangement of disk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are logical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would point to the third
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic automatically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to the first partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>so as to make subsequent boot-ups possible?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the boot.ini
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so where will the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the boot.ini
>>>>>>>>>>>>>file resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>setup, would have been located in the third partition (active,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>primary).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector (PBS)",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file always located at a specific location on the HDD - I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>thought this was true only of the MBR, which in turn pointed to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>PBS (which is located at an arbitrary location). Is my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>understanding incorrect - it would appear so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont even
>>>>>>>>>>>>fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>>>>>>>>>>>of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My current
>>>>>>>>>>>state of confusion is:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition
>>>>>>>>>>>(there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a
>>>>>>>>>>>time) and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading the
>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file located in that partition's root directory (as you
>>>>>>>>>>>indicated)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a menu
>>>>>>>>>>>appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the approriate
>>>>>>>>>>>partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does happen?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
>>>>>>>>>located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess the MBR
>>>>>>>>>points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader function
>>>>>>>>>(NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active partition and it would
>>>>>>>>>access the boot.ini file.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>>>>>>>>In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>>>>>>>>Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>When you have done that, have a look in the root of each partition to
>>>>>>>>loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any of the others?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1 OS why
>>>>>>>>don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary partition, if you are
>>>>>>>>going to delete the others.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step process I
>>>>>>>described is essentially correct. However, this thread seems to have
>>>>>>>wandered off course.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I guess the answer to the original question is that PartitionMagic (PM)
>>>>>>>WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file. So one question is, will the
>>>>>>>boot process get all the way to the active partition boot sector
>>>>>>>(PBS),via the MBR, (which I assume that PM CAN correctly set up) and then
>>>>>>>hang because the boot.ini file points to a non-existent partition
>>>>>>>(originally the third partition)?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>A second question is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original third
>>>>>>>partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will the boot
>>>>>>>process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the boot.ini file
>>>>>>>without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
>>>>>>I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only using ONE
>>>>>>OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in the root directory
>>>>>>of the first active partition for the OS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on another
>>>>>>partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too complicated to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On my IBM laptop they (ntldr and boot.ini)are in the root directory (C:\)
>>>>>of the active, bootable partition containing XP.
>>>>>
>>>>>Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ok, so if that is the present case, what was your point then?????
>>>>
>>>>If you install either Win2k or WinXP on any partition other than the first
>>>>active primary partition, the OS will by default place boot.ini, NTLDR and
>>>>NTDETECT.COM among others on that first active primary partition. If you
>>>>delete that partition, then you cannot boot WinXp or Win2k without first
>>>>moving/copying those files to the root of the OS and then making that the
>>>>first active partition.
>>>>But, whatever way you do it, the said files must be in the first active
>>>>partition.
>>>>Perhaps someone else who is more knowledgeable about the multiboot process
>>>>may have further information here. I know you did not say anything about
>>>>multiboot, but what you want to do, if I unsderstand you correctly goes
>>>>someway towards that.
>>>>
>>>
>>>The original "point" was that the OS resided in the third partition of the
>>>HDD. The first two partitions was logical partitions and were to be deleted.
>>>The ntldr and boot.ini files are located in the root directory of the third
>>>partition (the only active, bootable partition). The boot.ini file would have
>>>an ARC path pointing to this third partition.
>>>
>>>So, the original question was could PM be used to delete the first 2
>>>partitions (yes to this) and would PM correctly fix the boot.ini file so that
>>>the ARC path pointed to the first partition where the OS (ntldr and boot.ini
>>>are in the root directory of this partition) now resides (apparently not).
>>
>>
>> This appears to be where you are confusing yourself.
>>
>> Since everything is setup to boot the partition that the OS is installed
>> on, I cant see why deleting the logical partitions changes anything on
>> that. It isnt as if there is something that says 'boot the third partition'
>> and so that fails when it becomes the only partition after the deletion
>> of the logical partitions.
>>
>>
>>>A second question was (assuming the boot.ini pointed to the wrong partition):
>>
>>
>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will
>>>the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the
>>>boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>
>>
>> You can always boot the CD and do whatever repair is necessary from there.
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330184
>>
>> The obvious approach would be to run bootcfg /scan
>> and get it to re-enumerate the available OSs, just one
>> in your case, with its new partition number.
>
>
> On my Dell Desktop, which has 2 partitions (the first is a diagnostic
> partition, the second is the XP partition) the boot.ini file looks like:
>
> [boot loader]
> timeout=30
> default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
> [operating systems]
> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
> Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn

> I would think that the boot.ini entries of ...partition(2) would have to
> change to ...partition(1) after the diagnostic partition is deleted.

Presumably. Havent actually tried it tho.

> Otherwise, boot.ini points to a non-existent partition from which the OS is to
> be loaded, and the boot process would hang.

But you arent necessarily going to just delete that
diagnostic partition. Or are you planning to expand the
OS partition to include the space its currently occupying ?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 12:31:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Rod Speed wrote:

> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:t6ydnZOZBMNW35zfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
>
>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:ge6dncPlT8JggJzfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sector where it resides during the rearrangement of disk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are logical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would point to the third
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic automatically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to the first partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>so as to make subsequent boot-ups possible?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the boot.ini
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so where will the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the boot.ini
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>file resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>setup, would have been located in the third partition (active,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>primary).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector (PBS)",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file always located at a specific location on the HDD - I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>thought this was true only of the MBR, which in turn pointed to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PBS (which is located at an arbitrary location). Is my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>understanding incorrect - it would appear so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My current
>>>>>>>>>>>>state of confusion is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>(there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a
>>>>>>>>>>>>time) and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading the
>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file located in that partition's root directory (as you
>>>>>>>>>>>>indicated)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a menu
>>>>>>>>>>>>appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the approriate
>>>>>>>>>>>>partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does happen?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
>>>>>>>>>>located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess the MBR
>>>>>>>>>>points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader function
>>>>>>>>>>(NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active partition and it would
>>>>>>>>>>access the boot.ini file.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>>>>>>>>>In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>>>>>>>>>Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>When you have done that, have a look in the root of each partition to
>>>>>>>>>loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any of the others?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1 OS why
>>>>>>>>>don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary partition, if you are
>>>>>>>>>going to delete the others.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step process I
>>>>>>>>described is essentially correct. However, this thread seems to have
>>>>>>>>wandered off course.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I guess the answer to the original question is that PartitionMagic (PM)
>>>>>>>>WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file. So one question is, will the
>>>>>>>>boot process get all the way to the active partition boot sector
>>>>>>>>(PBS),via the MBR, (which I assume that PM CAN correctly set up) and then
>>>>>>>>hang because the boot.ini file points to a non-existent partition
>>>>>>>>(originally the third partition)?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>A second question is:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original third
>>>>>>>>partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will the boot
>>>>>>>>process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the boot.ini file
>>>>>>>>without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
>>>>>>>I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only using ONE
>>>>>>>OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in the root directory
>>>>>>>of the first active partition for the OS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on another
>>>>>>>partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too complicated to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On my IBM laptop they (ntldr and boot.ini)are in the root directory (C:\)
>>>>>>of the active, bootable partition containing XP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Ok, so if that is the present case, what was your point then?????
>>>>>
>>>>>If you install either Win2k or WinXP on any partition other than the first
>>>>>active primary partition, the OS will by default place boot.ini, NTLDR and
>>>>>NTDETECT.COM among others on that first active primary partition. If you
>>>>>delete that partition, then you cannot boot WinXp or Win2k without first
>>>>>moving/copying those files to the root of the OS and then making that the
>>>>>first active partition.
>>>>>But, whatever way you do it, the said files must be in the first active
>>>>>partition.
>>>>>Perhaps someone else who is more knowledgeable about the multiboot process
>>>>>may have further information here. I know you did not say anything about
>>>>>multiboot, but what you want to do, if I unsderstand you correctly goes
>>>>>someway towards that.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The original "point" was that the OS resided in the third partition of the
>>>>HDD. The first two partitions was logical partitions and were to be deleted.
>>>>The ntldr and boot.ini files are located in the root directory of the third
>>>>partition (the only active, bootable partition). The boot.ini file would have
>>>>an ARC path pointing to this third partition.
>>>>
>>>>So, the original question was could PM be used to delete the first 2
>>>>partitions (yes to this) and would PM correctly fix the boot.ini file so that
>>>>the ARC path pointed to the first partition where the OS (ntldr and boot.ini
>>>>are in the root directory of this partition) now resides (apparently not).
>>>
>>>
>>>This appears to be where you are confusing yourself.
>>>
>>>Since everything is setup to boot the partition that the OS is installed
>>>on, I cant see why deleting the logical partitions changes anything on
>>>that. It isnt as if there is something that says 'boot the third partition'
>>>and so that fails when it becomes the only partition after the deletion
>>>of the logical partitions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>A second question was (assuming the boot.ini pointed to the wrong partition):
>>>
>>>
>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will
>>>>the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the
>>>>boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>
>>>
>>>You can always boot the CD and do whatever repair is necessary from there.
>>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330184
>>>
>>>The obvious approach would be to run bootcfg /scan
>>>and get it to re-enumerate the available OSs, just one
>>>in your case, with its new partition number.
>>
>>
>>On my Dell Desktop, which has 2 partitions (the first is a diagnostic
>>partition, the second is the XP partition) the boot.ini file looks like:
>>
>>[boot loader]
>>timeout=30
>>default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>>[operating systems]
>>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
>>Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
>
>
>>I would think that the boot.ini entries of ...partition(2) would have to
>>change to ...partition(1) after the diagnostic partition is deleted.
>
>
> Presumably. Havent actually tried it tho.
>
>
>>Otherwise, boot.ini points to a non-existent partition from which the OS is to
>>be loaded, and the boot process would hang.
>
>
> But you arent necessarily going to just delete that
> diagnostic partition. Or are you planning to expand the
> OS partition to include the space its currently occupying ?
>
>
The idea was to completely remove the diagnostic partition, leaving only
one partition (OS partition). I assume that would imply that the OS
partition would be expanded to reclaim the space obtained by deleting
the diagnostic partition.

Harvey
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 1:47:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ScadnbWM86PbxZzfRVn-hA@comcast.com...
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:t6ydnZOZBMNW35zfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
>>
>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:ge6dncPlT8JggJzfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sector where it resides during the rearrangement of disk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are logical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would point to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>third partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>first partition so as to make subsequent boot-ups possible?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the boot.ini
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so where will the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the original setup, would have been located in the third
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition (active, primary).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(PBS)", boot.ini file always located at a specific location on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the HDD - I thought this was true only of the MBR, which in turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>pointed to the PBS (which is located at an arbitrary location).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Is my understanding incorrect - it would appear so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>even fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>current state of confusion is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>(there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>time) and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading
>>>>>>>>>>>>>the boot.ini file located in that partition's root directory (as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>you indicated)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>menu appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>approriate partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>happen?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
>>>>>>>>>>>located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess the
>>>>>>>>>>>MBR points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader
>>>>>>>>>>>function (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active partition
>>>>>>>>>>>and it would access the boot.ini file.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>>>>>>>>>>In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>>>>>>>>>>Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>When you have done that, have a look in the root of each partition to
>>>>>>>>>>loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any of the others?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1 OS why
>>>>>>>>>>don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary partition, if you
>>>>>>>>>>are going to delete the others.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step process I
>>>>>>>>>described is essentially correct. However, this thread seems to have
>>>>>>>>>wandered off course.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I guess the answer to the original question is that PartitionMagic (PM)
>>>>>>>>>WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file. So one question is, will
>>>>>>>>>the boot process get all the way to the active partition boot sector
>>>>>>>>>(PBS),via the MBR, (which I assume that PM CAN correctly set up) and
>>>>>>>>>then hang because the boot.ini file points to a non-existent partition
>>>>>>>>>(originally the third partition)?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>A second question is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original third
>>>>>>>>>partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will the boot
>>>>>>>>>process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the boot.ini file
>>>>>>>>>without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
>>>>>>>>I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only using ONE
>>>>>>>>OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in the root directory
>>>>>>>>of the first active partition for the OS.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on another
>>>>>>>>partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too complicated to me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On my IBM laptop they (ntldr and boot.ini)are in the root directory (C:\)
>>>>>>>of the active, bootable partition containing XP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ok, so if that is the present case, what was your point then?????
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you install either Win2k or WinXP on any partition other than the first
>>>>>>active primary partition, the OS will by default place boot.ini, NTLDR and
>>>>>>NTDETECT.COM among others on that first active primary partition. If you
>>>>>>delete that partition, then you cannot boot WinXp or Win2k without first
>>>>>>moving/copying those files to the root of the OS and then making that the
>>>>>>first active partition.
>>>>>>But, whatever way you do it, the said files must be in the first active
>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>Perhaps someone else who is more knowledgeable about the multiboot process
>>>>>>may have further information here. I know you did not say anything about
>>>>>>multiboot, but what you want to do, if I unsderstand you correctly goes
>>>>>>someway towards that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The original "point" was that the OS resided in the third partition of the
>>>>>HDD. The first two partitions was logical partitions and were to be
>>>>>deleted. The ntldr and boot.ini files are located in the root directory of
>>>>>the third partition (the only active, bootable partition). The boot.ini
>>>>>file would have an ARC path pointing to this third partition.
>>>>>
>>>>>So, the original question was could PM be used to delete the first 2
>>>>>partitions (yes to this) and would PM correctly fix the boot.ini file so
>>>>>that the ARC path pointed to the first partition where the OS (ntldr and
>>>>>boot.ini are in the root directory of this partition) now resides
>>>>>(apparently not).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This appears to be where you are confusing yourself.
>>>>
>>>>Since everything is setup to boot the partition that the OS is installed
>>>>on, I cant see why deleting the logical partitions changes anything on
>>>>that. It isnt as if there is something that says 'boot the third partition'
>>>>and so that fails when it becomes the only partition after the deletion
>>>>of the logical partitions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>A second question was (assuming the boot.ini pointed to the wrong
>>>>>partition):
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will
>>>>>the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the
>>>>>boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You can always boot the CD and do whatever repair is necessary from there.
>>>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330184
>>>>
>>>>The obvious approach would be to run bootcfg /scan
>>>>and get it to re-enumerate the available OSs, just one
>>>>in your case, with its new partition number.
>>>
>>>
>>>On my Dell Desktop, which has 2 partitions (the first is a diagnostic
>>>partition, the second is the XP partition) the boot.ini file looks like:
>>>
>>>[boot loader]
>>>timeout=30
>>>default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>>>[operating systems]
>>>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
>>>Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
>>
>>
>>>I would think that the boot.ini entries of ...partition(2) would have to
>>>change to ...partition(1) after the diagnostic partition is deleted.
>>
>>
>> Presumably. Havent actually tried it tho.
>>
>>
>>>Otherwise, boot.ini points to a non-existent partition from which the OS is
>>>to be loaded, and the boot process would hang.
>>
>>
>> But you arent necessarily going to just delete that
>> diagnostic partition. Or are you planning to expand the
>> OS partition to include the space its currently occupying ?
>>
>>
> The idea was to completely remove the diagnostic partition, leaving only one
> partition (OS partition). I assume that would imply that the OS partition
> would be expanded to reclaim the space obtained by deleting the diagnostic
> partition.

To return to your original question, I'd be surprised if
PM actually edits the boot.ini, but I havent tried that.

Not sure what happens if the boot.ini has a non existent partition number
in that line you listed. Its possible that if there is only one partition on the
physical drive it will just assume that thats the one intended.

No big deal if it doesnt, just boot the CD and run bootcfg /rebuild
from the recovery console and have it redo the boot.ini and fix it.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 1:47:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Rod Speed wrote:

> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:ScadnbWM86PbxZzfRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>
>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:t6ydnZOZBMNW35zfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:ge6dncPlT8JggJzfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sector where it resides during the rearrangement of disk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are logical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would point to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>third partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>first partition so as to make subsequent boot-ups possible?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the boot.ini
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so where will the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the original setup, would have been located in the third
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition (active, primary).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(PBS)", boot.ini file always located at a specific location on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the HDD - I thought this was true only of the MBR, which in turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>pointed to the PBS (which is located at an arbitrary location).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Is my understanding incorrect - it would appear so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>even fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>current state of confusion is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>time) and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the boot.ini file located in that partition's root directory (as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you indicated)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>menu appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>approriate partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>happen?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess the
>>>>>>>>>>>>MBR points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader
>>>>>>>>>>>>function (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>and it would access the boot.ini file.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>>>>>>>>>>>In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>>>>>>>>>>>Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>When you have done that, have a look in the root of each partition to
>>>>>>>>>>>loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any of the others?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1 OS why
>>>>>>>>>>>don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary partition, if you
>>>>>>>>>>>are going to delete the others.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step process I
>>>>>>>>>>described is essentially correct. However, this thread seems to have
>>>>>>>>>>wandered off course.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I guess the answer to the original question is that PartitionMagic (PM)
>>>>>>>>>>WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file. So one question is, will
>>>>>>>>>>the boot process get all the way to the active partition boot sector
>>>>>>>>>>(PBS),via the MBR, (which I assume that PM CAN correctly set up) and
>>>>>>>>>>then hang because the boot.ini file points to a non-existent partition
>>>>>>>>>>(originally the third partition)?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>A second question is:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original third
>>>>>>>>>>partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will the boot
>>>>>>>>>>process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the boot.ini file
>>>>>>>>>>without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
>>>>>>>>>I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only using ONE
>>>>>>>>>OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in the root directory
>>>>>>>>>of the first active partition for the OS.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on another
>>>>>>>>>partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too complicated to me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On my IBM laptop they (ntldr and boot.ini)are in the root directory (C:\)
>>>>>>>>of the active, bootable partition containing XP.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ok, so if that is the present case, what was your point then?????
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If you install either Win2k or WinXP on any partition other than the first
>>>>>>>active primary partition, the OS will by default place boot.ini, NTLDR and
>>>>>>>NTDETECT.COM among others on that first active primary partition. If you
>>>>>>>delete that partition, then you cannot boot WinXp or Win2k without first
>>>>>>>moving/copying those files to the root of the OS and then making that the
>>>>>>>first active partition.
>>>>>>>But, whatever way you do it, the said files must be in the first active
>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>Perhaps someone else who is more knowledgeable about the multiboot process
>>>>>>>may have further information here. I know you did not say anything about
>>>>>>>multiboot, but what you want to do, if I unsderstand you correctly goes
>>>>>>>someway towards that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The original "point" was that the OS resided in the third partition of the
>>>>>>HDD. The first two partitions was logical partitions and were to be
>>>>>>deleted. The ntldr and boot.ini files are located in the root directory of
>>>>>>the third partition (the only active, bootable partition). The boot.ini
>>>>>>file would have an ARC path pointing to this third partition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So, the original question was could PM be used to delete the first 2
>>>>>>partitions (yes to this) and would PM correctly fix the boot.ini file so
>>>>>>that the ARC path pointed to the first partition where the OS (ntldr and
>>>>>>boot.ini are in the root directory of this partition) now resides
>>>>>>(apparently not).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>This appears to be where you are confusing yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>>Since everything is setup to boot the partition that the OS is installed
>>>>>on, I cant see why deleting the logical partitions changes anything on
>>>>>that. It isnt as if there is something that says 'boot the third partition'
>>>>>and so that fails when it becomes the only partition after the deletion
>>>>>of the logical partitions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>A second question was (assuming the boot.ini pointed to the wrong
>>>>>>partition):
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will
>>>>>>the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the
>>>>>>boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You can always boot the CD and do whatever repair is necessary from there.
>>>>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330184
>>>>>
>>>>>The obvious approach would be to run bootcfg /scan
>>>>>and get it to re-enumerate the available OSs, just one
>>>>>in your case, with its new partition number.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On my Dell Desktop, which has 2 partitions (the first is a diagnostic
>>>>partition, the second is the XP partition) the boot.ini file looks like:
>>>>
>>>>[boot loader]
>>>>timeout=30
>>>>default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>>>>[operating systems]
>>>>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
>>>>Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
>>>
>>>
>>>>I would think that the boot.ini entries of ...partition(2) would have to
>>>>change to ...partition(1) after the diagnostic partition is deleted.
>>>
>>>
>>>Presumably. Havent actually tried it tho.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Otherwise, boot.ini points to a non-existent partition from which the OS is
>>>>to be loaded, and the boot process would hang.
>>>
>>>
>>>But you arent necessarily going to just delete that
>>>diagnostic partition. Or are you planning to expand the
>>>OS partition to include the space its currently occupying ?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>The idea was to completely remove the diagnostic partition, leaving only one
>>partition (OS partition). I assume that would imply that the OS partition
>>would be expanded to reclaim the space obtained by deleting the diagnostic
>>partition.
>
>
> To return to your original question, I'd be surprised if
> PM actually edits the boot.ini, but I havent tried that.
>
> Not sure what happens if the boot.ini has a non existent partition number
> in that line you listed. Its possible that if there is only one partition on the
> physical drive it will just assume that thats the one intended.
>
> No big deal if it doesnt, just boot the CD and run bootcfg /rebuild
> from the recovery console and have it redo the boot.ini and fix it.
>
>


Yeah, the XP cd route appears to be the way to handle this. However, my
other question was whether one could install the XP recovery Console
prior to manipulating the partitions.

What I hope would happen is that the Recovery Console comes up first,
before the boot process hangs trying to find the non-existent partition.
The repair could then be done at that point without needing the cd.

Thanks,
Harvey
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 2:30:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:krCdnQ8DS6UT8ZzfRVn-gg@comcast.com...
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:ScadnbWM86PbxZzfRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>>
>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:t6ydnZOZBMNW35zfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:ge6dncPlT8JggJzfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sector where it resides during the rearrangement of disk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>logical partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to the third partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the first partition so as to make subsequent boot-ups
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>possible?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>will the boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the original setup, would have been located in the third
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition (active, primary).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(PBS)", boot.ini file always located at a specific location on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the HDD - I thought this was true only of the MBR, which in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>turn pointed to the PBS (which is located at an arbitrary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>location). Is my understanding incorrect - it would appear so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>even fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>current state of confusion is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>time) and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the boot.ini file located in that partition's root directory (as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you indicated)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>menu appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>approriate partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>happen?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>MBR points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader
>>>>>>>>>>>>>function (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>and it would access the boot.ini file.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>>>>>>>>>>>>In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>When you have done that, have a look in the root of each partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>to loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>others?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1 OS
>>>>>>>>>>>>why don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary partition, if
>>>>>>>>>>>>you are going to delete the others.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step process I
>>>>>>>>>>>described is essentially correct. However, this thread seems to have
>>>>>>>>>>>wandered off course.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I guess the answer to the original question is that PartitionMagic
>>>>>>>>>>>(PM) WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file. So one question is,
>>>>>>>>>>>will the boot process get all the way to the active partition boot
>>>>>>>>>>>sector (PBS),via the MBR, (which I assume that PM CAN correctly set
>>>>>>>>>>>up) and then hang because the boot.ini file points to a non-existent
>>>>>>>>>>>partition (originally the third partition)?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>A second question is:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original third
>>>>>>>>>>>partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will the
>>>>>>>>>>>boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the boot.ini
>>>>>>>>>>>file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
>>>>>>>>>>I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only using
>>>>>>>>>>ONE OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in the root
>>>>>>>>>>directory of the first active partition for the OS.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on another
>>>>>>>>>>partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too complicated to me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On my IBM laptop they (ntldr and boot.ini)are in the root directory
>>>>>>>>>(C:\) of the active, bootable partition containing XP.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Ok, so if that is the present case, what was your point then?????
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>If you install either Win2k or WinXP on any partition other than the
>>>>>>>>first active primary partition, the OS will by default place boot.ini,
>>>>>>>>NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM among others on that first active primary
>>>>>>>>partition. If you delete that partition, then you cannot boot WinXp or
>>>>>>>>Win2k without first moving/copying those files to the root of the OS and
>>>>>>>>then making that the first active partition.
>>>>>>>>But, whatever way you do it, the said files must be in the first active
>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>Perhaps someone else who is more knowledgeable about the multiboot
>>>>>>>>process may have further information here. I know you did not say
>>>>>>>>anything about multiboot, but what you want to do, if I unsderstand you
>>>>>>>>correctly goes someway towards that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The original "point" was that the OS resided in the third partition of
>>>>>>>the HDD. The first two partitions was logical partitions and were to be
>>>>>>>deleted. The ntldr and boot.ini files are located in the root directory
>>>>>>>of the third partition (the only active, bootable partition). The
>>>>>>>boot.ini file would have an ARC path pointing to this third partition.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So, the original question was could PM be used to delete the first 2
>>>>>>>partitions (yes to this) and would PM correctly fix the boot.ini file so
>>>>>>>that the ARC path pointed to the first partition where the OS (ntldr and
>>>>>>>boot.ini are in the root directory of this partition) now resides
>>>>>>>(apparently not).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This appears to be where you are confusing yourself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Since everything is setup to boot the partition that the OS is installed
>>>>>>on, I cant see why deleting the logical partitions changes anything on
>>>>>>that. It isnt as if there is something that says 'boot the third
>>>>>>partition'
>>>>>>and so that fails when it becomes the only partition after the deletion
>>>>>>of the logical partitions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>A second question was (assuming the boot.ini pointed to the wrong
>>>>>>>partition):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>>>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will
>>>>>>>the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the
>>>>>>>boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You can always boot the CD and do whatever repair is necessary from there.
>>>>>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330184
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The obvious approach would be to run bootcfg /scan
>>>>>>and get it to re-enumerate the available OSs, just one
>>>>>>in your case, with its new partition number.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On my Dell Desktop, which has 2 partitions (the first is a diagnostic
>>>>>partition, the second is the XP partition) the boot.ini file looks like:
>>>>>
>>>>>[boot loader]
>>>>>timeout=30
>>>>>default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>>>>>[operating systems]
>>>>>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
>>>>>Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I would think that the boot.ini entries of ...partition(2) would have to
>>>>>change to ...partition(1) after the diagnostic partition is deleted.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Presumably. Havent actually tried it tho.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Otherwise, boot.ini points to a non-existent partition from which the OS is
>>>>>to be loaded, and the boot process would hang.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>But you arent necessarily going to just delete that
>>>>diagnostic partition. Or are you planning to expand the
>>>>OS partition to include the space its currently occupying ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>The idea was to completely remove the diagnostic partition, leaving only one
>>>partition (OS partition). I assume that would imply that the OS partition
>>>would be expanded to reclaim the space obtained by deleting the diagnostic
>>>partition.
>>
>>
>> To return to your original question, I'd be surprised if
>> PM actually edits the boot.ini, but I havent tried that.
>>
>> Not sure what happens if the boot.ini has a non existent partition number
>> in that line you listed. Its possible that if there is only one partition on
>> the
>> physical drive it will just assume that thats the one intended.
>>
>> No big deal if it doesnt, just boot the CD and run bootcfg /rebuild
>> from the recovery console and have it redo the boot.ini and fix it.

> Yeah, the XP cd route appears to be the way to handle this. However, my other
> question was whether one could install the XP recovery Console prior to
> manipulating the partitions.

You dont need to install it, you basically run it from the booted CD.

> What I hope would happen is that the Recovery Console comes up first, before
> the boot process hangs trying to find the non-existent partition.

Yeah, it probably does.

> The repair could then be done at that point without needing the cd.

You could always just edit the boot.ini manually if you dont have the cd.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 2:30:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Rod Speed wrote:

> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:krCdnQ8DS6UT8ZzfRVn-gg@comcast.com...
>
>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:ScadnbWM86PbxZzfRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:t6ydnZOZBMNW35zfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:ge6dncPlT8JggJzfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sector where it resides during the rearrangement of disk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>logical partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to the third partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the XP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the first partition so as to make subsequent boot-ups
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>possible?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>will the boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the original setup, would have been located in the third
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition (active, primary).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(PBS)", boot.ini file always located at a specific location on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the HDD - I thought this was true only of the MBR, which in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>turn pointed to the PBS (which is located at an arbitrary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>location). Is my understanding incorrect - it would appear so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>even fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on a particular physical drive and something works out where the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>current state of confusion is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>time) and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the boot.ini file located in that partition's root directory (as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you indicated)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>menu appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>approriate partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>happen?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MBR points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>function (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>and it would access the boot.ini file.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>When you have done that, have a look in the root of each partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>to loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>others?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1 OS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>why don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary partition, if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>you are going to delete the others.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step process I
>>>>>>>>>>>>described is essentially correct. However, this thread seems to have
>>>>>>>>>>>>wandered off course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess the answer to the original question is that PartitionMagic
>>>>>>>>>>>>(PM) WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file. So one question is,
>>>>>>>>>>>>will the boot process get all the way to the active partition boot
>>>>>>>>>>>>sector (PBS),via the MBR, (which I assume that PM CAN correctly set
>>>>>>>>>>>>up) and then hang because the boot.ini file points to a non-existent
>>>>>>>>>>>>partition (originally the third partition)?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>A second question is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original third
>>>>>>>>>>>>partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will the
>>>>>>>>>>>>boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the boot.ini
>>>>>>>>>>>>file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
>>>>>>>>>>>I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only using
>>>>>>>>>>>ONE OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in the root
>>>>>>>>>>>directory of the first active partition for the OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on another
>>>>>>>>>>>partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too complicated to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On my IBM laptop they (ntldr and boot.ini)are in the root directory
>>>>>>>>>>(C:\) of the active, bootable partition containing XP.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Ok, so if that is the present case, what was your point then?????
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>If you install either Win2k or WinXP on any partition other than the
>>>>>>>>>first active primary partition, the OS will by default place boot.ini,
>>>>>>>>>NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM among others on that first active primary
>>>>>>>>>partition. If you delete that partition, then you cannot boot WinXp or
>>>>>>>>>Win2k without first moving/copying those files to the root of the OS and
>>>>>>>>>then making that the first active partition.
>>>>>>>>>But, whatever way you do it, the said files must be in the first active
>>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>>Perhaps someone else who is more knowledgeable about the multiboot
>>>>>>>>>process may have further information here. I know you did not say
>>>>>>>>>anything about multiboot, but what you want to do, if I unsderstand you
>>>>>>>>>correctly goes someway towards that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The original "point" was that the OS resided in the third partition of
>>>>>>>>the HDD. The first two partitions was logical partitions and were to be
>>>>>>>>deleted. The ntldr and boot.ini files are located in the root directory
>>>>>>>>of the third partition (the only active, bootable partition). The
>>>>>>>>boot.ini file would have an ARC path pointing to this third partition.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So, the original question was could PM be used to delete the first 2
>>>>>>>>partitions (yes to this) and would PM correctly fix the boot.ini file so
>>>>>>>>that the ARC path pointed to the first partition where the OS (ntldr and
>>>>>>>>boot.ini are in the root directory of this partition) now resides
>>>>>>>>(apparently not).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This appears to be where you are confusing yourself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Since everything is setup to boot the partition that the OS is installed
>>>>>>>on, I cant see why deleting the logical partitions changes anything on
>>>>>>>that. It isnt as if there is something that says 'boot the third
>>>>>>>partition'
>>>>>>>and so that fails when it becomes the only partition after the deletion
>>>>>>>of the logical partitions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>A second question was (assuming the boot.ini pointed to the wrong
>>>>>>>>partition):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>>>>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will
>>>>>>>>the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the
>>>>>>>>boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You can always boot the CD and do whatever repair is necessary from there.
>>>>>>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330184
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The obvious approach would be to run bootcfg /scan
>>>>>>>and get it to re-enumerate the available OSs, just one
>>>>>>>in your case, with its new partition number.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On my Dell Desktop, which has 2 partitions (the first is a diagnostic
>>>>>>partition, the second is the XP partition) the boot.ini file looks like:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[boot loader]
>>>>>>timeout=30
>>>>>>default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>>>>>>[operating systems]
>>>>>>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
>>>>>>Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I would think that the boot.ini entries of ...partition(2) would have to
>>>>>>change to ...partition(1) after the diagnostic partition is deleted.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Presumably. Havent actually tried it tho.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Otherwise, boot.ini points to a non-existent partition from which the OS is
>>>>>>to be loaded, and the boot process would hang.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>But you arent necessarily going to just delete that
>>>>>diagnostic partition. Or are you planning to expand the
>>>>>OS partition to include the space its currently occupying ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The idea was to completely remove the diagnostic partition, leaving only one
>>>>partition (OS partition). I assume that would imply that the OS partition
>>>>would be expanded to reclaim the space obtained by deleting the diagnostic
>>>>partition.
>>>
>>>
>>>To return to your original question, I'd be surprised if
>>>PM actually edits the boot.ini, but I havent tried that.
>>>
>>>Not sure what happens if the boot.ini has a non existent partition number
>>>in that line you listed. Its possible that if there is only one partition on
>>>the
>>>physical drive it will just assume that thats the one intended.
>>>
>>>No big deal if it doesnt, just boot the CD and run bootcfg /rebuild
>>>from the recovery console and have it redo the boot.ini and fix it.
>
>
>>Yeah, the XP cd route appears to be the way to handle this. However, my other
>>question was whether one could install the XP recovery Console prior to
>>manipulating the partitions.
>
>
> You dont need to install it, you basically run it from the booted CD.
>
>
>>What I hope would happen is that the Recovery Console comes up first, before
>>the boot process hangs trying to find the non-existent partition.
>
>
> Yeah, it probably does.
>
>
>>The repair could then be done at that point without needing the cd.
>
>
> You could always just edit the boot.ini manually if you dont have the cd.
>
>
Chicken before the egg??? If I can't boot to the OS, I can't edit the
boot.ini file unless it's done before the whole process.

I believe that's why you need to do the repair either from the cd or
from the Recovery Console if the above works.

The problem I face is that some of my machines did not come with an XP
cd. And, an OEM cd (like Dell) will not work - so that's why the
question about the Recovery Console.

Thanks,
Harvey
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 2:32:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:36d9l4F50941dU1@individual.net...
>
> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:krCdnQ8DS6UT8ZzfRVn-gg@comcast.com...
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:ScadnbWM86PbxZzfRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:t6ydnZOZBMNW35zfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:ge6dncPlT8JggJzfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition boot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sector where it resides during the rearrangement of disk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>logical partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to the third partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>XP partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the first partition so as to make subsequent boot-ups
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>possible?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>where will the boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file resided in the "partition boot sector" which, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the original setup, would have been located in the third
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition (active, primary).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(PBS)", boot.ini file always located at a specific location on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the HDD - I thought this was true only of the MBR, which in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>turn pointed to the PBS (which is located at an arbitrary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>location). Is my understanding incorrect - it would appear so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>even fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>More likely something works out which is the bootable partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on a particular physical drive and something works out where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>current state of confusion is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>time) and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>reading the boot.ini file located in that partition's root
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>directory (as you indicated)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>menu appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>approriate partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>happen?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MBR points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>function (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition and it would access the boot.ini file.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>When you have done that, have a look in the root of each partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>to loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>others?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1 OS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>why don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary partition, if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>you are going to delete the others.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step process I
>>>>>>>>>>>>described is essentially correct. However, this thread seems to have
>>>>>>>>>>>>wandered off course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess the answer to the original question is that PartitionMagic
>>>>>>>>>>>>(PM) WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file. So one question
>>>>>>>>>>>>is, will the boot process get all the way to the active partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>boot sector (PBS),via the MBR, (which I assume that PM CAN correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>>set up) and then hang because the boot.ini file points to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>non-existent partition (originally the third partition)?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>A second question is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will
>>>>>>>>>>>>the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the
>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
>>>>>>>>>>>I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only using
>>>>>>>>>>>ONE OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in the root
>>>>>>>>>>>directory of the first active partition for the OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on
>>>>>>>>>>>another partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too complicated
>>>>>>>>>>>to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On my IBM laptop they (ntldr and boot.ini)are in the root directory
>>>>>>>>>>(C:\) of the active, bootable partition containing XP.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Ok, so if that is the present case, what was your point then?????
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>If you install either Win2k or WinXP on any partition other than the
>>>>>>>>>first active primary partition, the OS will by default place boot.ini,
>>>>>>>>>NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM among others on that first active primary
>>>>>>>>>partition. If you delete that partition, then you cannot boot WinXp or
>>>>>>>>>Win2k without first moving/copying those files to the root of the OS
>>>>>>>>>and then making that the first active partition.
>>>>>>>>>But, whatever way you do it, the said files must be in the first active
>>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>>Perhaps someone else who is more knowledgeable about the multiboot
>>>>>>>>>process may have further information here. I know you did not say
>>>>>>>>>anything about multiboot, but what you want to do, if I unsderstand you
>>>>>>>>>correctly goes someway towards that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The original "point" was that the OS resided in the third partition of
>>>>>>>>the HDD. The first two partitions was logical partitions and were to be
>>>>>>>>deleted. The ntldr and boot.ini files are located in the root directory
>>>>>>>>of the third partition (the only active, bootable partition). The
>>>>>>>>boot.ini file would have an ARC path pointing to this third partition.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So, the original question was could PM be used to delete the first 2
>>>>>>>>partitions (yes to this) and would PM correctly fix the boot.ini file so
>>>>>>>>that the ARC path pointed to the first partition where the OS (ntldr and
>>>>>>>>boot.ini are in the root directory of this partition) now resides
>>>>>>>>(apparently not).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This appears to be where you are confusing yourself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Since everything is setup to boot the partition that the OS is installed
>>>>>>>on, I cant see why deleting the logical partitions changes anything on
>>>>>>>that. It isnt as if there is something that says 'boot the third
>>>>>>>partition'
>>>>>>>and so that fails when it becomes the only partition after the deletion
>>>>>>>of the logical partitions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>A second question was (assuming the boot.ini pointed to the wrong
>>>>>>>>partition):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>>>>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will
>>>>>>>>the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the
>>>>>>>>boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You can always boot the CD and do whatever repair is necessary from
>>>>>>>there.
>>>>>>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330184
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The obvious approach would be to run bootcfg /scan
>>>>>>>and get it to re-enumerate the available OSs, just one
>>>>>>>in your case, with its new partition number.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On my Dell Desktop, which has 2 partitions (the first is a diagnostic
>>>>>>partition, the second is the XP partition) the boot.ini file looks like:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[boot loader]
>>>>>>timeout=30
>>>>>>default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>>>>>>[operating systems]
>>>>>>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
>>>>>>Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I would think that the boot.ini entries of ...partition(2) would have to
>>>>>>change to ...partition(1) after the diagnostic partition is deleted.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Presumably. Havent actually tried it tho.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Otherwise, boot.ini points to a non-existent partition from which the OS
>>>>>>is to be loaded, and the boot process would hang.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>But you arent necessarily going to just delete that
>>>>>diagnostic partition. Or are you planning to expand the
>>>>>OS partition to include the space its currently occupying ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The idea was to completely remove the diagnostic partition, leaving only one
>>>>partition (OS partition). I assume that would imply that the OS partition
>>>>would be expanded to reclaim the space obtained by deleting the diagnostic
>>>>partition.
>>>
>>>
>>> To return to your original question, I'd be surprised if
>>> PM actually edits the boot.ini, but I havent tried that.
>>>
>>> Not sure what happens if the boot.ini has a non existent partition number
>>> in that line you listed. Its possible that if there is only one partition on
>>> the
>>> physical drive it will just assume that thats the one intended.
>>>
>>> No big deal if it doesnt, just boot the CD and run bootcfg /rebuild
>>> from the recovery console and have it redo the boot.ini and fix it.
>
>> Yeah, the XP cd route appears to be the way to handle this. However, my other
>> question was whether one could install the XP recovery Console prior to
>> manipulating the partitions.
>
> You dont need to install it, you basically run it from the booted CD.
>
>> What I hope would happen is that the Recovery Console comes up first, before
>> the boot process hangs trying to find the non-existent partition.
>
> Yeah, it probably does.
>
>> The repair could then be done at that point without needing the cd.
>
> You could always just edit the boot.ini manually if you dont have the cd.

I wouldnt however make a change to the partitions like that
without a full image of the entire physical drive. PM can
destroy the drive contents if thing go completely pear shaped.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 3:19:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6M-dnZM7-fWF6ZzfRVn-iA@comcast.com...
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:krCdnQ8DS6UT8ZzfRVn-gg@comcast.com...
>>
>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:ScadnbWM86PbxZzfRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:t6ydnZOZBMNW35zfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:ge6dncPlT8JggJzfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot sector where it resides during the rearrangement of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>disk partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>logical partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>point to the third partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>XP partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the first partition so as to make subsequent boot-ups
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>possible?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>where will the boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file resided in the "partition boot sector" which,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the original setup, would have been located in the third
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition (active, primary).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(PBS)", boot.ini file always located at a specific location
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on the HDD - I thought this was true only of the MBR, which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in turn pointed to the PBS (which is located at an arbitrary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>location). Is my understanding incorrect - it would appear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>even fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>More likely something works out which is the bootable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on a particular physical drive and something works out where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>current state of confusion is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition (there may be more than one, but I guess only one is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>active at a time) and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>reading the boot.ini file located in that partition's root
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>directory (as you indicated)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>menu appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>approriate partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>happen?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the MBR points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>function (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition and it would access the boot.ini file.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>When you have done that, have a look in the root of each partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>others?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1 OS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>why don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary partition,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>if you are going to delete the others.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I described is essentially correct. However, this thread seems to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>have wandered off course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess the answer to the original question is that PartitionMagic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>(PM) WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file. So one question
>>>>>>>>>>>>>is, will the boot process get all the way to the active partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot sector (PBS),via the MBR, (which I assume that PM CAN
>>>>>>>>>>>>>correctly set up) and then hang because the boot.ini file points to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>a non-existent partition (originally the third partition)?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>A second question is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>will the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>the boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
>>>>>>>>>>>>I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only using
>>>>>>>>>>>>ONE OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in the root
>>>>>>>>>>>>directory of the first active partition for the OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on
>>>>>>>>>>>>another partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too
>>>>>>>>>>>>complicated to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On my IBM laptop they (ntldr and boot.ini)are in the root directory
>>>>>>>>>>>(C:\) of the active, bootable partition containing XP.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Ok, so if that is the present case, what was your point then?????
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>If you install either Win2k or WinXP on any partition other than the
>>>>>>>>>>first active primary partition, the OS will by default place boot.ini,
>>>>>>>>>>NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM among others on that first active primary
>>>>>>>>>>partition. If you delete that partition, then you cannot boot WinXp or
>>>>>>>>>>Win2k without first moving/copying those files to the root of the OS
>>>>>>>>>>and then making that the first active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>But, whatever way you do it, the said files must be in the first
>>>>>>>>>>active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>Perhaps someone else who is more knowledgeable about the multiboot
>>>>>>>>>>process may have further information here. I know you did not say
>>>>>>>>>>anything about multiboot, but what you want to do, if I unsderstand
>>>>>>>>>>you correctly goes someway towards that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The original "point" was that the OS resided in the third partition of
>>>>>>>>>the HDD. The first two partitions was logical partitions and were to be
>>>>>>>>>deleted. The ntldr and boot.ini files are located in the root directory
>>>>>>>>>of the third partition (the only active, bootable partition). The
>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file would have an ARC path pointing to this third partition.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>So, the original question was could PM be used to delete the first 2
>>>>>>>>>partitions (yes to this) and would PM correctly fix the boot.ini file
>>>>>>>>>so that the ARC path pointed to the first partition where the OS (ntldr
>>>>>>>>>and boot.ini are in the root directory of this partition) now resides
>>>>>>>>>(apparently not).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This appears to be where you are confusing yourself.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Since everything is setup to boot the partition that the OS is installed
>>>>>>>>on, I cant see why deleting the logical partitions changes anything on
>>>>>>>>that. It isnt as if there is something that says 'boot the third
>>>>>>>>partition'
>>>>>>>>and so that fails when it becomes the only partition after the deletion
>>>>>>>>of the logical partitions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>A second question was (assuming the boot.ini pointed to the wrong
>>>>>>>>>partition):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>>>>>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will
>>>>>>>>>the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the
>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You can always boot the CD and do whatever repair is necessary from
>>>>>>>>there.
>>>>>>>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330184
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The obvious approach would be to run bootcfg /scan
>>>>>>>>and get it to re-enumerate the available OSs, just one
>>>>>>>>in your case, with its new partition number.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On my Dell Desktop, which has 2 partitions (the first is a diagnostic
>>>>>>>partition, the second is the XP partition) the boot.ini file looks like:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>[boot loader]
>>>>>>>timeout=30
>>>>>>>default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>>>>>>>[operating systems]
>>>>>>>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
>>>>>>>Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I would think that the boot.ini entries of ...partition(2) would have to
>>>>>>>change to ...partition(1) after the diagnostic partition is deleted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Presumably. Havent actually tried it tho.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Otherwise, boot.ini points to a non-existent partition from which the OS
>>>>>>>is to be loaded, and the boot process would hang.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But you arent necessarily going to just delete that
>>>>>>diagnostic partition. Or are you planning to expand the
>>>>>>OS partition to include the space its currently occupying ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The idea was to completely remove the diagnostic partition, leaving only
>>>>>one partition (OS partition). I assume that would imply that the OS
>>>>>partition would be expanded to reclaim the space obtained by deleting the
>>>>>diagnostic partition.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>To return to your original question, I'd be surprised if
>>>>PM actually edits the boot.ini, but I havent tried that.
>>>>
>>>>Not sure what happens if the boot.ini has a non existent partition number
>>>>in that line you listed. Its possible that if there is only one partition on
>>>>the
>>>>physical drive it will just assume that thats the one intended.
>>>>
>>>>No big deal if it doesnt, just boot the CD and run bootcfg /rebuild
>>>>from the recovery console and have it redo the boot.ini and fix it.
>>
>>
>>>Yeah, the XP cd route appears to be the way to handle this. However, my other
>>>question was whether one could install the XP recovery Console prior to
>>>manipulating the partitions.
>>
>>
>> You dont need to install it, you basically run it from the booted CD.
>>
>>
>>>What I hope would happen is that the Recovery Console comes up first, before
>>>the boot process hangs trying to find the non-existent partition.
>>
>>
>> Yeah, it probably does.
>>
>>
>>>The repair could then be done at that point without needing the cd.
>>
>>
>> You could always just edit the boot.ini manually if you dont have the cd.

> Chicken before the egg???

Nope.

> If I can't boot to the OS, I can't edit the boot.ini file unless it's done
> before the whole process.

You can boot another OS from floppy or CD.

The knoppix CD would allow you to edit it.

> I believe that's why you need to do the repair either from the cd or from the
> Recovery Console if the above works.

Nope.

> The problem I face is that some of my machines did not come with an XP cd.
> And, an OEM cd (like Dell) will not work

Any bootable XP CD will do fine, it doesnt have to be the one
used to install XP on that particular machine to edit the boot.ini

> - so that's why the question about the Recovery Console.

See above.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 3:19:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Rod Speed wrote:

> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:6M-dnZM7-fWF6ZzfRVn-iA@comcast.com...
>
>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:krCdnQ8DS6UT8ZzfRVn-gg@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:ScadnbWM86PbxZzfRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:t6ydnZOZBMNW35zfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:ge6dncPlT8JggJzfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot sector where it resides during the rearrangement of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>disk partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the third partition on my HDD. The first two partitions are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>logical partitions. Initially, the boot.ini file would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>point to the third partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>XP partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the first partition so as to make subsequent boot-ups
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>possible?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>where will the boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file resided in the "partition boot sector" which,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the original setup, would have been located in the third
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition (active, primary).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(PBS)", boot.ini file always located at a specific location
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on the HDD - I thought this was true only of the MBR, which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in turn pointed to the PBS (which is located at an arbitrary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>location). Is my understanding incorrect - it would appear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it wont
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>even fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>More likely something works out which is the bootable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on a particular physical drive and something works out where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover gracefully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>current state of confusion is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition (there may be more than one, but I guess only one is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>active at a time) and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>reading the boot.ini file located in that partition's root
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>directory (as you indicated)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>menu appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>approriate partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>happen?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the MBR points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>function (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition and it would access the boot.ini file.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>When you have done that, have a look in the root of each partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>others?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1 OS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>why don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary partition,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>if you are going to delete the others.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I described is essentially correct. However, this thread seems to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>have wandered off course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess the answer to the original question is that PartitionMagic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(PM) WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file. So one question
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is, will the boot process get all the way to the active partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot sector (PBS),via the MBR, (which I assume that PM CAN
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>correctly set up) and then hang because the boot.ini file points to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a non-existent partition (originally the third partition)?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>A second question is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>will the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>ONE OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in the root
>>>>>>>>>>>>>directory of the first active partition for the OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>another partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>complicated to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On my IBM laptop they (ntldr and boot.ini)are in the root directory
>>>>>>>>>>>>(C:\) of the active, bootable partition containing XP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Ok, so if that is the present case, what was your point then?????
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>If you install either Win2k or WinXP on any partition other than the
>>>>>>>>>>>first active primary partition, the OS will by default place boot.ini,
>>>>>>>>>>>NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM among others on that first active primary
>>>>>>>>>>>partition. If you delete that partition, then you cannot boot WinXp or
>>>>>>>>>>>Win2k without first moving/copying those files to the root of the OS
>>>>>>>>>>>and then making that the first active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>But, whatever way you do it, the said files must be in the first
>>>>>>>>>>>active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>Perhaps someone else who is more knowledgeable about the multiboot
>>>>>>>>>>>process may have further information here. I know you did not say
>>>>>>>>>>>anything about multiboot, but what you want to do, if I unsderstand
>>>>>>>>>>>you correctly goes someway towards that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>The original "point" was that the OS resided in the third partition of
>>>>>>>>>>the HDD. The first two partitions was logical partitions and were to be
>>>>>>>>>>deleted. The ntldr and boot.ini files are located in the root directory
>>>>>>>>>>of the third partition (the only active, bootable partition). The
>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file would have an ARC path pointing to this third partition.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>So, the original question was could PM be used to delete the first 2
>>>>>>>>>>partitions (yes to this) and would PM correctly fix the boot.ini file
>>>>>>>>>>so that the ARC path pointed to the first partition where the OS (ntldr
>>>>>>>>>>and boot.ini are in the root directory of this partition) now resides
>>>>>>>>>>(apparently not).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>This appears to be where you are confusing yourself.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Since everything is setup to boot the partition that the OS is installed
>>>>>>>>>on, I cant see why deleting the logical partitions changes anything on
>>>>>>>>>that. It isnt as if there is something that says 'boot the third
>>>>>>>>>partition'
>>>>>>>>>and so that fails when it becomes the only partition after the deletion
>>>>>>>>>of the logical partitions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>A second question was (assuming the boot.ini pointed to the wrong
>>>>>>>>>>partition):
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>>>>>>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will
>>>>>>>>>>the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the
>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You can always boot the CD and do whatever repair is necessary from
>>>>>>>>>there.
>>>>>>>>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330184
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The obvious approach would be to run bootcfg /scan
>>>>>>>>>and get it to re-enumerate the available OSs, just one
>>>>>>>>>in your case, with its new partition number.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On my Dell Desktop, which has 2 partitions (the first is a diagnostic
>>>>>>>>partition, the second is the XP partition) the boot.ini file looks like:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>[boot loader]
>>>>>>>>timeout=30
>>>>>>>>default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>>>>>>>>[operating systems]
>>>>>>>>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
>>>>>>>>Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I would think that the boot.ini entries of ...partition(2) would have to
>>>>>>>>change to ...partition(1) after the diagnostic partition is deleted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Presumably. Havent actually tried it tho.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Otherwise, boot.ini points to a non-existent partition from which the OS
>>>>>>>>is to be loaded, and the boot process would hang.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>But you arent necessarily going to just delete that
>>>>>>>diagnostic partition. Or are you planning to expand the
>>>>>>>OS partition to include the space its currently occupying ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The idea was to completely remove the diagnostic partition, leaving only
>>>>>>one partition (OS partition). I assume that would imply that the OS
>>>>>>partition would be expanded to reclaim the space obtained by deleting the
>>>>>>diagnostic partition.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>To return to your original question, I'd be surprised if
>>>>>PM actually edits the boot.ini, but I havent tried that.
>>>>>
>>>>>Not sure what happens if the boot.ini has a non existent partition number
>>>>>in that line you listed. Its possible that if there is only one partition on
>>>>>the
>>>>>physical drive it will just assume that thats the one intended.
>>>>>
>>>>>No big deal if it doesnt, just boot the CD and run bootcfg /rebuild
>>>>
>>>>>from the recovery console and have it redo the boot.ini and fix it.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Yeah, the XP cd route appears to be the way to handle this. However, my other
>>>>question was whether one could install the XP recovery Console prior to
>>>>manipulating the partitions.
>>>
>>>
>>>You dont need to install it, you basically run it from the booted CD.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>What I hope would happen is that the Recovery Console comes up first, before
>>>>the boot process hangs trying to find the non-existent partition.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yeah, it probably does.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The repair could then be done at that point without needing the cd.
>>>
>>>
>>>You could always just edit the boot.ini manually if you dont have the cd.
>
>
>>Chicken before the egg???
>
>
> Nope.
>
>
>>If I can't boot to the OS, I can't edit the boot.ini file unless it's done
>>before the whole process.
>
>
> You can boot another OS from floppy or CD.
>
> The knoppix CD would allow you to edit it.
>
>
>>I believe that's why you need to do the repair either from the cd or from the
>>Recovery Console if the above works.
>
>
> Nope.
>
>
>>The problem I face is that some of my machines did not come with an XP cd.
>>And, an OEM cd (like Dell) will not work
>
>
> Any bootable XP CD will do fine, it doesnt have to be the one
> used to install XP on that particular machine to edit the boot.ini
>
>
>>- so that's why the question about the Recovery Console.
>
>
> See above.
>
>
Are you saying that a Dell XP cd, which is tied to the Dell BIOS, will
still allow me to access the Recovery Console?

Thanks,
Harvey
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 3:47:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ibSdnR0cGdVt4ZzfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:6M-dnZM7-fWF6ZzfRVn-iA@comcast.com...
>>
>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:krCdnQ8DS6UT8ZzfRVn-gg@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:ScadnbWM86PbxZzfRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:t6ydnZOZBMNW35zfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>news:ge6dncPlT8JggJzfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot sector where it resides during the rearrangement of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>disk partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as the third partition on my HDD. The first two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partitions are logical partitions. Initially, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file would point to the third partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the XP partition the first partition, will PartitionMagic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically rewrite the boot.ini file to make it point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to the first partition so as to make subsequent boot-ups
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>possible?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>where will the boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file resided in the "partition boot sector" which,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the original setup, would have been located in the third
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition (active, primary).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot sector
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(PBS)", boot.ini file always located at a specific location
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on the HDD - I thought this was true only of the MBR, which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in turn pointed to the PBS (which is located at an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>arbitrary location). Is my understanding incorrect - it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>would appear so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wont even fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>More likely something works out which is the bootable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on a particular physical drive and something works out where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gracefully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>current state of confusion is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition (there may be more than one, but I guess only one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is active at a time) and jumps to the PBS of the active
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>reading the boot.ini file located in that partition's root
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>directory (as you indicated)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a menu appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the approriate partition for the loading of the selected OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>happen?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>it's located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>guess the MBR points to the PBS which contains code to start
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the loader function (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>active partition and it would access the boot.ini file.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>When you have done that, have a look in the root of each
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition to loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of the others?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>OS why don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition, if you are going to delete the others.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>process I described is essentially correct. However, this thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>seems to have wandered off course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess the answer to the original question is that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PartitionMagic (PM) WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>So one question is, will the boot process get all the way to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>active partition boot sector (PBS),via the MBR, (which I assume
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that PM CAN correctly set up) and then hang because the boot.ini
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>file points to a non-existent partition (originally the third
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition)?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>A second question is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>will the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>using ONE OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the root directory of the first active partition for the OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>another partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>complicated to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On my IBM laptop they (ntldr and boot.ini)are in the root directory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>(C:\) of the active, bootable partition containing XP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Ok, so if that is the present case, what was your point then?????
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>If you install either Win2k or WinXP on any partition other than the
>>>>>>>>>>>>first active primary partition, the OS will by default place
>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini, NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM among others on that first active
>>>>>>>>>>>>primary partition. If you delete that partition, then you cannot
>>>>>>>>>>>>boot WinXp or Win2k without first moving/copying those files to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>root of the OS and then making that the first active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>But, whatever way you do it, the said files must be in the first
>>>>>>>>>>>>active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Perhaps someone else who is more knowledgeable about the multiboot
>>>>>>>>>>>>process may have further information here. I know you did not say
>>>>>>>>>>>>anything about multiboot, but what you want to do, if I unsderstand
>>>>>>>>>>>>you correctly goes someway towards that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>The original "point" was that the OS resided in the third partition
>>>>>>>>>>>of the HDD. The first two partitions was logical partitions and were
>>>>>>>>>>>to be deleted. The ntldr and boot.ini files are located in the root
>>>>>>>>>>>directory of the third partition (the only active, bootable
>>>>>>>>>>>partition). The boot.ini file would have an ARC path pointing to this
>>>>>>>>>>>third partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>So, the original question was could PM be used to delete the first 2
>>>>>>>>>>>partitions (yes to this) and would PM correctly fix the boot.ini file
>>>>>>>>>>>so that the ARC path pointed to the first partition where the OS
>>>>>>>>>>>(ntldr and boot.ini are in the root directory of this partition) now
>>>>>>>>>>>resides (apparently not).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>This appears to be where you are confusing yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Since everything is setup to boot the partition that the OS is
>>>>>>>>>>installed
>>>>>>>>>>on, I cant see why deleting the logical partitions changes anything on
>>>>>>>>>>that. It isnt as if there is something that says 'boot the third
>>>>>>>>>>partition'
>>>>>>>>>>and so that fails when it becomes the only partition after the
>>>>>>>>>>deletion
>>>>>>>>>>of the logical partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>A second question was (assuming the boot.ini pointed to the wrong
>>>>>>>>>>>partition):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>>>>>>>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will
>>>>>>>>>>>the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the
>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>You can always boot the CD and do whatever repair is necessary from
>>>>>>>>>>there.
>>>>>>>>>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330184
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>The obvious approach would be to run bootcfg /scan
>>>>>>>>>>and get it to re-enumerate the available OSs, just one
>>>>>>>>>>in your case, with its new partition number.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On my Dell Desktop, which has 2 partitions (the first is a diagnostic
>>>>>>>>>partition, the second is the XP partition) the boot.ini file looks
>>>>>>>>>like:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>[boot loader]
>>>>>>>>>timeout=30
>>>>>>>>>default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>>>>>>>>>[operating systems]
>>>>>>>>>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
>>>>>>>>>Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I would think that the boot.ini entries of ...partition(2) would have
>>>>>>>>>to change to ...partition(1) after the diagnostic partition is deleted.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Presumably. Havent actually tried it tho.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Otherwise, boot.ini points to a non-existent partition from which the
>>>>>>>>>OS is to be loaded, and the boot process would hang.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>But you arent necessarily going to just delete that
>>>>>>>>diagnostic partition. Or are you planning to expand the
>>>>>>>>OS partition to include the space its currently occupying ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The idea was to completely remove the diagnostic partition, leaving only
>>>>>>>one partition (OS partition). I assume that would imply that the OS
>>>>>>>partition would be expanded to reclaim the space obtained by deleting the
>>>>>>>diagnostic partition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>To return to your original question, I'd be surprised if
>>>>>>PM actually edits the boot.ini, but I havent tried that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Not sure what happens if the boot.ini has a non existent partition number
>>>>>>in that line you listed. Its possible that if there is only one partition
>>>>>>on the
>>>>>>physical drive it will just assume that thats the one intended.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No big deal if it doesnt, just boot the CD and run bootcfg /rebuild
>>>>>
>>>>>>from the recovery console and have it redo the boot.ini and fix it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Yeah, the XP cd route appears to be the way to handle this. However, my
>>>>>other question was whether one could install the XP recovery Console prior
>>>>>to manipulating the partitions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You dont need to install it, you basically run it from the booted CD.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>What I hope would happen is that the Recovery Console comes up first,
>>>>>before the boot process hangs trying to find the non-existent partition.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yeah, it probably does.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The repair could then be done at that point without needing the cd.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You could always just edit the boot.ini manually if you dont have the cd.
>>
>>
>>>Chicken before the egg???
>>
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>>
>>>If I can't boot to the OS, I can't edit the boot.ini file unless it's done
>>>before the whole process.
>>
>>
>> You can boot another OS from floppy or CD.
>>
>> The knoppix CD would allow you to edit it.
>>
>>
>>>I believe that's why you need to do the repair either from the cd or from the
>>>Recovery Console if the above works.
>>
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>>
>>>The problem I face is that some of my machines did not come with an XP cd.
>>>And, an OEM cd (like Dell) will not work
>>
>>
>> Any bootable XP CD will do fine, it doesnt have to be the one
>> used to install XP on that particular machine to edit the boot.ini
>>
>>
>>>- so that's why the question about the Recovery Console.
>>
>>
>> See above.
>>
>>
> Are you saying that a Dell XP cd, which is tied to the Dell BIOS, will still
> allow me to access the Recovery Console?

Dunno. I was actually talking about a standard XP CD.

It doesnt have to be the CD that was used to install
XP on that particular machine, it can be any XP CD.

Havent played with a Dell XP CD.

If you dont have a standard XP CD you
can get one off the web using torrent etc.

Knoppix is certain to allow you to edit the boot.ini too.
You would however need some minimal linux knowledge.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 4:32:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:36de6hF4vaih3U1@individual.net...
>
> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:ibSdnR0cGdVt4ZzfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:6M-dnZM7-fWF6ZzfRVn-iA@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:krCdnQ8DS6UT8ZzfRVn-gg@comcast.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:ScadnbWM86PbxZzfRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:t6ydnZOZBMNW35zfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>news:ge6dncPlT8JggJzfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot sector where it resides during the rearrangement of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>disk partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as the third partition on my HDD. The first two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partitions are logical partitions. Initially, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file would point to the third partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the XP partition the first partition, will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PartitionMagic automatically rewrite the boot.ini file
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to make it point to the first partition so as to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>subsequent boot-ups possible?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>where will the boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You will have to create another boot.ini file on the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file resided in the "partition boot sector"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>which, in the original setup, would have been located in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the third partition (active, primary).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sector (PBS)", boot.ini file always located at a specific
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>location on the HDD - I thought this was true only of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MBR, which in turn pointed to the PBS (which is located at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>an arbitrary location). Is my understanding incorrect - it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>would appear so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wont even fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>More likely something works out which is the bootable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on a particular physical drive and something works out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>where the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gracefully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>current state of confusion is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition (there may be more than one, but I guess only one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is active at a time) and jumps to the PBS of the active
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>reading the boot.ini file located in that partition's root
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>directory (as you indicated)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>OS's, a menu appears. A selection here would then cause a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>jump to the approriate partition for the loading of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>selected OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>does happen?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>it's located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>guess the MBR points to the PBS which contains code to start
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the loader function (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>active partition and it would access the boot.ini file.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>When you have done that, have a look in the root of each
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition to loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any of the others?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>OS why don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition, if you are going to delete the others.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>process I described is essentially correct. However, this thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>seems to have wandered off course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess the answer to the original question is that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PartitionMagic (PM) WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini file.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>So one question is, will the boot process get all the way to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>active partition boot sector (PBS),via the MBR, (which I assume
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that PM CAN correctly set up) and then hang because the boot.ini
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>file points to a non-existent partition (originally the third
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition)?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>A second question is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>will the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>fix the boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>hanging?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>using ONE OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the root directory of the first active partition for the OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>another partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>complicated to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On my IBM laptop they (ntldr and boot.ini)are in the root
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>directory (C:\) of the active, bootable partition containing XP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ok, so if that is the present case, what was your point then?????
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you install either Win2k or WinXP on any partition other than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>the first active primary partition, the OS will by default place
>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini, NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM among others on that first active
>>>>>>>>>>>>>primary partition. If you delete that partition, then you cannot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot WinXp or Win2k without first moving/copying those files to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>root of the OS and then making that the first active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>But, whatever way you do it, the said files must be in the first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Perhaps someone else who is more knowledgeable about the multiboot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>process may have further information here. I know you did not say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>anything about multiboot, but what you want to do, if I unsderstand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>you correctly goes someway towards that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>The original "point" was that the OS resided in the third partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>of the HDD. The first two partitions was logical partitions and were
>>>>>>>>>>>>to be deleted. The ntldr and boot.ini files are located in the root
>>>>>>>>>>>>directory of the third partition (the only active, bootable
>>>>>>>>>>>>partition). The boot.ini file would have an ARC path pointing to
>>>>>>>>>>>>this third partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>So, the original question was could PM be used to delete the first 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>partitions (yes to this) and would PM correctly fix the boot.ini
>>>>>>>>>>>>file so that the ARC path pointed to the first partition where the
>>>>>>>>>>>>OS (ntldr and boot.ini are in the root directory of this partition)
>>>>>>>>>>>>now resides (apparently not).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>This appears to be where you are confusing yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Since everything is setup to boot the partition that the OS is
>>>>>>>>>>>installed
>>>>>>>>>>>on, I cant see why deleting the logical partitions changes anything
>>>>>>>>>>>on
>>>>>>>>>>>that. It isnt as if there is something that says 'boot the third
>>>>>>>>>>>partition'
>>>>>>>>>>>and so that fails when it becomes the only partition after the
>>>>>>>>>>>deletion
>>>>>>>>>>>of the logical partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>A second question was (assuming the boot.ini pointed to the wrong
>>>>>>>>>>>>partition):
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above, will
>>>>>>>>>>>>the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the
>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>You can always boot the CD and do whatever repair is necessary from
>>>>>>>>>>>there.
>>>>>>>>>>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330184
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>The obvious approach would be to run bootcfg /scan
>>>>>>>>>>>and get it to re-enumerate the available OSs, just one
>>>>>>>>>>>in your case, with its new partition number.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On my Dell Desktop, which has 2 partitions (the first is a diagnostic
>>>>>>>>>>partition, the second is the XP partition) the boot.ini file looks
>>>>>>>>>>like:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>[boot loader]
>>>>>>>>>>timeout=30
>>>>>>>>>>default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>>>>>>>>>>[operating systems]
>>>>>>>>>>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
>>>>>>>>>>Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I would think that the boot.ini entries of ...partition(2) would have
>>>>>>>>>>to change to ...partition(1) after the diagnostic partition is
>>>>>>>>>>deleted.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Presumably. Havent actually tried it tho.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Otherwise, boot.ini points to a non-existent partition from which the
>>>>>>>>>>OS is to be loaded, and the boot process would hang.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>But you arent necessarily going to just delete that
>>>>>>>>>diagnostic partition. Or are you planning to expand the
>>>>>>>>>OS partition to include the space its currently occupying ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The idea was to completely remove the diagnostic partition, leaving only
>>>>>>>>one partition (OS partition). I assume that would imply that the OS
>>>>>>>>partition would be expanded to reclaim the space obtained by deleting
>>>>>>>>the diagnostic partition.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>To return to your original question, I'd be surprised if
>>>>>>>PM actually edits the boot.ini, but I havent tried that.

>>>>>>> Not sure what happens if the boot.ini has a non existent partition
>>>>>>> number
>>>>>>> in that line you listed. Its possible that if there is only one
>>>>>>> partition on the physical drive it will just assume that thats the one
>>>>>>> intended.

Just checked that by manually editing the boot.ini in a system which
has a single XP partition on boot drive, changing the partition numbers
in both lines from the original 1 to 3 and XP is so stupid that it just gives
up and doesnt give you any opportunity to run the recovery console.

Booted the XP CD, ran the recovery console from there, ran
bootcfg /rebuild
and it found the only OS installation and just asked what to call it etc.

That produced a boot menu at boot time because the original dud entry
was still there, but that was easy to edit out once the full XP booted again.

>>>>>>>No big deal if it doesnt, just boot the CD and run bootcfg /rebuild
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>from the recovery console and have it redo the boot.ini and fix it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Yeah, the XP cd route appears to be the way to handle this. However, my
>>>>>>other question was whether one could install the XP recovery Console prior
>>>>>>to manipulating the partitions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You dont need to install it, you basically run it from the booted CD.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>What I hope would happen is that the Recovery Console comes up first,
>>>>>>before the boot process hangs trying to find the non-existent partition.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Yeah, it probably does.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>The repair could then be done at that point without needing the cd.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You could always just edit the boot.ini manually if you dont have the cd.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Chicken before the egg???
>>>
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>>
>>>>If I can't boot to the OS, I can't edit the boot.ini file unless it's done
>>>>before the whole process.
>>>
>>>
>>> You can boot another OS from floppy or CD.
>>>
>>> The knoppix CD would allow you to edit it.
>>>
>>>
>>>>I believe that's why you need to do the repair either from the cd or from
>>>>the Recovery Console if the above works.
>>>
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>>
>>>>The problem I face is that some of my machines did not come with an XP cd.
>>>>And, an OEM cd (like Dell) will not work
>>>
>>>
>>> Any bootable XP CD will do fine, it doesnt have to be the one
>>> used to install XP on that particular machine to edit the boot.ini
>>>
>>>
>>>>- so that's why the question about the Recovery Console.
>>>
>>>
>>> See above.
>>>
>>>
>> Are you saying that a Dell XP cd, which is tied to the Dell BIOS, will still
>> allow me to access the Recovery Console?
>
> Dunno. I was actually talking about a standard XP CD.
>
> It doesnt have to be the CD that was used to install
> XP on that particular machine, it can be any XP CD.
>
> Havent played with a Dell XP CD.
>
> If you dont have a standard XP CD you
> can get one off the web using torrent etc.
>
> Knoppix is certain to allow you to edit the boot.ini too.
> You would however need some minimal linux knowledge.
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 4:32:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Harvey Gratt wrote:

>Thanks Rod. I appreciate your taking the time to investigate this.
>Harvey

Either of you frickin retards ever considering trimming a post?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 4:32:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

chrisv wrote:
> Harvey Gratt wrote:
>
>
>>Thanks Rod. I appreciate your taking the time to investigate this.
>>Harvey
>
>
> Either of you frickin retards ever considering trimming a post?
>
No.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 3, 2005 4:35:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:36dgpdF51g7aeU1@individual.net...
>
> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:36de6hF4vaih3U1@individual.net...
>>
>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:ibSdnR0cGdVt4ZzfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:6M-dnZM7-fWF6ZzfRVn-iA@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:krCdnQ8DS6UT8ZzfRVn-gg@comcast.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:ScadnbWM86PbxZzfRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>news:t6ydnZOZBMNW35zfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>news:ge6dncPlT8JggJzfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Harvey Gratt" <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:p -KdnYOTKpPKRGLcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob H wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey Gratt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm trying to verify whether PartitionMagic 8.01 will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically "fix" the boot.ini file and the partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot sector where it resides during the rearrangement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of disk partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Specifically, say I have an XP primary, active
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition as the third partition on my HDD. The first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>two partitions are logical partitions. Initially, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file would point to the third partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If I now delete the first two partitions so as to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the XP partition the first partition, will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PartitionMagic automatically rewrite the boot.ini file
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to make it point to the first partition so as to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>subsequent boot-ups possible?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I wouldn't have thought so. You are in fact delting the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file when you delete the first 2 partitions, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>where will the boot.ini file be? Deleted as well, I say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You will have to create another boot.ini file on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>same partition you want to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I appear to be mis-understanding something. I thought the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file resided in the "partition boot sector"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>which, in the original setup, would have been located in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the third partition (active, primary).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If not where does it reside? Are the "partition boot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sector (PBS)", boot.ini file always located at a specific
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>location on the HDD - I thought this was true only of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MBR, which in turn pointed to the PBS (which is located
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>at an arbitrary location). Is my understanding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>incorrect - it would appear so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sounds comprehensively mangled to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The boot.ini file is a file in a particular partition, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wont even fit in a PBS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>More likely something works out which is the bootable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on a particular physical drive and something works out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>where the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini is from that and reads it from the appropriate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dont know the answer to your original question, I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ghost the entire physical drive so you can recover
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gracefully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of PM didnt handle the deletion of the logical drives
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cant see why it shouldnt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess this gets down to understanding the boot process.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My current state of confusion is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition (there may be more than one, but I guess only one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is active at a time) and jumps to the PBS of the active
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>reading the boot.ini file located in that partition's root
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>directory (as you indicated)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>OS's, a menu appears. A selection here would then cause a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>jump to the approriate partition for the loading of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>selected OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>does happen?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>it's located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>guess the MBR points to the PBS which contains code to start
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the loader function (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>active partition and it would access the boot.ini file.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Go to: Windows Explorer, Tools, Folder Options.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>In Folder Options click on the View tab at the top.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Then un tick Hide protected operating system files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>When you have done that, have a look in the root of each
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition to loctate NTLDR. So, is it in the OS partition or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any of the others?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anyway to keep things nice and sipmle, if you are only using 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>OS why don't you just put boot.ini in the ctaive Primary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition, if you are going to delete the others.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It is in the root directory. So it appears that the 4 step
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>process I described is essentially correct. However, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>thread seems to have wandered off course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess the answer to the original question is that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PartitionMagic (PM) WILL NOT correctly change the boot.ini
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>file. So one question is, will the boot process get all the way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to the active partition boot sector (PBS),via the MBR, (which I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>assume that PM CAN correctly set up) and then hang because the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file points to a non-existent partition (originally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the third partition)?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>A second question is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>will the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>fix the boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>hanging?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>What root directory of what partition is NTLDR in?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I believe in the KISS theory, and like I said, if you are only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>using ONE OS, why don't you make sure NTLDR and boot.ini are in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the root directory of the first active partition for the OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I would not put trust in PM to rebuild/make place any files on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>another partition from whence they were moved. Sounds too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>complicated to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On my IBM laptop they (ntldr and boot.ini)are in the root
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>directory (C:\) of the active, bootable partition containing XP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harvey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ok, so if that is the present case, what was your point then?????
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you install either Win2k or WinXP on any partition other than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the first active primary partition, the OS will by default place
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini, NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM among others on that first active
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>primary partition. If you delete that partition, then you cannot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot WinXp or Win2k without first moving/copying those files to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the root of the OS and then making that the first active
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>But, whatever way you do it, the said files must be in the first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>active partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Perhaps someone else who is more knowledgeable about the multiboot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>process may have further information here. I know you did not say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anything about multiboot, but what you want to do, if I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>unsderstand you correctly goes someway towards that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>The original "point" was that the OS resided in the third partition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>of the HDD. The first two partitions was logical partitions and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>were to be deleted. The ntldr and boot.ini files are located in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>root directory of the third partition (the only active, bootable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition). The boot.ini file would have an ARC path pointing to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>this third partition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>So, the original question was could PM be used to delete the first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>2 partitions (yes to this) and would PM correctly fix the boot.ini
>>>>>>>>>>>>>file so that the ARC path pointed to the first partition where the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>OS (ntldr and boot.ini are in the root directory of this partition)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>now resides (apparently not).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>This appears to be where you are confusing yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Since everything is setup to boot the partition that the OS is
>>>>>>>>>>>>installed
>>>>>>>>>>>>on, I cant see why deleting the logical partitions changes anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>on
>>>>>>>>>>>>that. It isnt as if there is something that says 'boot the third
>>>>>>>>>>>>partition'
>>>>>>>>>>>>and so that fails when it becomes the only partition after the
>>>>>>>>>>>>deletion
>>>>>>>>>>>>of the logical partitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>A second question was (assuming the boot.ini pointed to the wrong
>>>>>>>>>>>>>partition):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Assume I install the Recovery Console in the OS in the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>third partition. When I go thru all the manipulations as above,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>the boot process bring up the Recovery Console (so I can fix the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>boot.ini file without needing an XP cd) instead of hanging?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>You can always boot the CD and do whatever repair is necessary from
>>>>>>>>>>>>there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330184
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>The obvious approach would be to run bootcfg /scan
>>>>>>>>>>>>and get it to re-enumerate the available OSs, just one
>>>>>>>>>>>>in your case, with its new partition number.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On my Dell Desktop, which has 2 partitions (the first is a diagnostic
>>>>>>>>>>>partition, the second is the XP partition) the boot.ini file looks
>>>>>>>>>>>like:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>[boot loader]
>>>>>>>>>>>timeout=30
>>>>>>>>>>>default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>>>>>>>>>>>[operating systems]
>>>>>>>>>>>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
>>>>>>>>>>>Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I would think that the boot.ini entries of ...partition(2) would have
>>>>>>>>>>>to change to ...partition(1) after the diagnostic partition is
>>>>>>>>>>>deleted.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Presumably. Havent actually tried it tho.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Otherwise, boot.ini points to a non-existent partition from which the
>>>>>>>>>>>OS is to be loaded, and the boot process would hang.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>But you arent necessarily going to just delete that
>>>>>>>>>>diagnostic partition. Or are you planning to expand the
>>>>>>>>>>OS partition to include the space its currently occupying ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The idea was to completely remove the diagnostic partition, leaving
>>>>>>>>>only one partition (OS partition). I assume that would imply that the
>>>>>>>>>OS partition would be expanded to reclaim the space obtained by
>>>>>>>>>deleting the diagnostic partition.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>To return to your original question, I'd be surprised if
>>>>>>>>PM actually edits the boot.ini, but I havent tried that.
>
>>>>>>>> Not sure what happens if the boot.ini has a non existent partition
>>>>>>>> number
>>>>>>>> in that line you listed. Its possible that if there is only one
>>>>>>>> partition on the physical drive it will just assume that thats the one
>>>>>>>> intended.
>
> Just checked that by manually editing the boot.ini in a system which
> has a single XP partition on boot drive, changing the partition numbers
> in both lines from the original 1 to 3 and XP is so stupid that it just gives
> up and doesnt give you any opportunity to run the recovery console.
>
> Booted the XP CD, ran the recovery console from there, ran
> bootcfg /rebuild
> and it found the only OS installation and just asked what to call it etc.
>
> That produced a boot menu at boot time because the original dud entry
> was still there, but that was easy to edit out once the full XP booted again.
>
>>>>>>>>No big deal if it doesnt, just boot the CD and run bootcfg /rebuild
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>from the recovery console and have it redo the boot.ini and fix it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yeah, the XP cd route appears to be the way to handle this. However, my
>>>>>>>other question was whether one could install the XP recovery Console
>>>>>>>prior to manipulating the partitions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You dont need to install it, you basically run it from the booted CD.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What I hope would happen is that the Recovery Console comes up first,
>>>>>>>before the boot process hangs trying to find the non-existent partition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yeah, it probably does.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The repair could then be done at that point without needing the cd.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You could always just edit the boot.ini manually if you dont have the cd.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Chicken before the egg???
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nope.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>If I can't boot to the OS, I can't edit the boot.ini file unless it's done
>>>>>before the whole process.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You can boot another OS from floppy or CD.
>>>>
>>>> The knoppix CD would allow you to edit it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I believe that's why you need to do the repair either from the cd or from
>>>>>the Recovery Console if the above works.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nope.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The problem I face is that some of my machines did not come with an XP cd.
>>>>>And, an OEM cd (like Dell) will not work
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any bootable XP CD will do fine, it doesnt have to be the one
>>>> used to install XP on that particular machine to edit the boot.ini
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>- so that's why the question about the Recovery Console.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> See above.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Are you saying that a Dell XP cd, which is tied to the Dell BIOS, will still
>>> allow me to access the Recovery Console?
>>
>> Dunno. I was actually talking about a standard XP CD.
>>
>> It doesnt have to be the CD that was used to install
>> XP on that particular machine, it can be any XP CD.
>>
>> Havent played with a Dell XP CD.
>>
>> If you dont have a standard XP CD you
>> can get one off the web using torrent etc.
>>
>> Knoppix is certain to allow you to edit the boot.ini too.
>> You would however need some minimal linux knowledge.

Better watch out or I could end up completely blind.

One possible gotcha with booting the XP CD is that
it does ask you for the admin password of the OS
you want to recover. So its important you know
what that is before you use PM on the drive.

Corse you could always just boot the
knoppix CD if you get caught like that.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 5, 2005 3:20:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

This is all very complicated, and PM will do unpredictable things.

You should make an XP boot floppy, so that when things get messed up,
maybe you will be able to boot to whatever partition PM eventually
numbers the boot partition.

I have had PM renumber the partitions without asking me. I had to boot
from the boot floppy, which contained a boot.ini file, and then the
hard disk boot.ini had to be fixed manually to finally work again.

I once copied by boot partition to a second primary partition, and PM
rewrote the boot.ini files on both to allow dual boot from both, again
without asking, which isn't what I wanted and I had to edit both files
to fix that.

You just don't know what it is going to do. And that doesn't include
when it just destroys everything, which has happened to me more than
once. A proper image of your boot drive is essential.

Irwin
Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 5, 2005 9:33:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Hi Harvey,

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 22:06:54 UTC, Harvey Gratt <hgratt@comcast.net> wrote:

> >> 1. The MBR is read from a fixed location on the HDD.
> >>
> >> 2. The code in the MBR eventually points to a bootable partition
> >> (there may be more than one, but I guess only one is active at a time)
> >> and jumps to the PBS of the active partition.
> >>
> >> 3. Code in the PBS then starts to load the OS, eventually reading the
> >> boot.ini file located in that partition's root directory (as you
> >> indicated)
> >>
> >> 4. Now, if the boot.ini file contains lines for mutiple OS's, a menu
> >> appears. A selection here would then cause a jump to the approriate
> >> partition for the loading of the selected OS.
> >>
> >> My head hurts. Does the above seem correct? If not, what does happen?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Harvey
> >
> >
> > Where is NTLDR? Which partition is that on?
> >
>
>
> Well, if my understanding is remotely correct, I would think it's
> located on the active partition pointed to by the MBR. I guess the MBR
> points to the PBS which contains code to start the loader function
> (NTLDR). NTLDR is probably located on the active partition and it would
> access the boot.ini file.

Your understanding is mostly correct.

The BOOT.INI will be in the first primary partition visible to Windows.

Often that IS the same partition Windows is installed in, but it doesn't
have to be that way. If you had another C: partition, with DOS or a
Win-9x installed, and add Windows-NT/W2K/XP, in another partition,
you can choose to keep the old installation intact, in that case it
will write its NTLDR and BOOT.INI i the existing C: partition, while
it installs the new Windows in another one (like D: or whatever).

(I guess this is noting to to most people on the NG though :-)


Unfortunately it is also true that the interpretation of the BOOT.INI
file is not very intelligent, the partition-numbers in there depend
on the other partitions present on the disk.

Changes like deleting other primaries, or all logicals, which will
remove the extended-partition (a special form of primary)
will cause the numbering to CHANGE, and requires
corresponding changes to the BOOT.INI file if you
want Windows to boot ...


If you know beforehand you will be rearrange things, you can
temporarilly add several lines to BOOT.INI each with a different
partition-number (and description).

That way you can always select a working one from the menu
you will get on booting. And with enough experience you can
reliably predict what the new partition-number will be :-).

If you are in a different situation, where the change has already
happened, you need to FIX the BOOT.INI file, either by editing
manually, using the Recovery Console (and FIXBOOT) or use
a third-party tool that knows how to fix it.

Editing might be problematic if the BOOT.INI file resides
in an NTFS partition ...


I know there are several third-party tools, both freeware and
commercial that will fix BOOT.INI as well. Fixing BOOT.INI
is also included in my own disk-utility DFSee, where it can
locate BOOT.INI of FAT16/32 or NTFS partitions and FIX
the entry for the default partition by automated in-line editing.

It will also display the correct BOOT.INI partition-number for every
primary partition on the disk (for educational purposes :-)

Feel free to download and evaluate it, no registration required
for evaluation. (and it is NOT crippled in any way either)

http://www.dfsee.com/dfsee.htm

Regards, JvW


PS:
The download contains a Windows, DOS, Linux and OS2 version
and is text-mode only ...

--
Jan van Wijk; Author of DFSee: http://www.dfsee.com
!