frustration over maxtor

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I purchased a retail Maxtor 250GB ATA drive about a year ago. Few
months later it died. I RMA'ed it to Maxtor and I received the same
model replacement. Now the replacement just died, too. Both times the
drives had bad blocks.

To add insult to injury, when I filled in the RMA form on Maxtor's web
site it told me the 9-character diagnostic code I got from PowerMax
(v4.09) was not correct (the web page only has room for 8 characters).
I followed their link and downloaded the latest (v4.21) version of
PowerMax. And guess what, it gave me a 16-character code! Needless to
say, this did not work with the RMA form, either.

I'm really fed up with Maxtor. Anyone have any suggestion what to do
about 1. returning the drive, and 2. finding a READ replacement (read:
non-Maxtor drive)?
 
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Sandpiper wrote:

> I'm really fed up with Maxtor. Anyone have any suggestion what to do
> about 1. returning the drive, and 2. finding a READ replacement (read:
> non-Maxtor drive)?
>
Meant to say, "2. finding a REAL replacement..."
 
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In article <ueydnSI8raM2upvfRVn-oA@rcn.net>, Sandpiper <no@no.no> wrote:
>
>I purchased a retail Maxtor 250GB ATA drive about a year ago. Few
>months later it died. I RMA'ed it to Maxtor and I received the same
>model replacement. Now the replacement just died, too. Both times the
>drives had bad blocks.
>
>To add insult to injury, when I filled in the RMA form on Maxtor's web
>site it told me the 9-character diagnostic code I got from PowerMax
>(v4.09) was not correct (the web page only has room for 8 characters).
>I followed their link and downloaded the latest (v4.21) version of
>PowerMax. And guess what, it gave me a 16-character code! Needless to
>say, this did not work with the RMA form, either.
>
>I'm really fed up with Maxtor. Anyone have any suggestion what to do
>about 1. returning the drive, and 2. finding a READ replacement (read:
>non-Maxtor drive)?
>


Are you keeping these puppies cool ? I like to keep drives belot
110DegF.

Heat kills and recently I've heard that there is one chip on the
circuit board of some drives that runs really hot. The drive, overall,
can be cool enough but just a little air blockage in the wgong place
can cook the drive.

Can't help you with the Maxtor RMA process (they's been ok IME, but
it's been a while).
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Here's more insanity to this experience: PowerMax user interface gave a
16-character diagnostic code, but the drvinfo.txt file it dumps out to
the floppy gave a 24-charactor code. The two codes are different except
for the first 4 characters. WTF?


Sandpiper wrote:

> Sandpiper wrote:
>
>> I'm really fed up with Maxtor. Anyone have any suggestion what to do
>> about 1. returning the drive, and 2. finding a READ replacement (read:
>> non-Maxtor drive)?
>>
> Meant to say, "2. finding a REAL replacement..."
>
 
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I run my PC without a case cover. So the internals are cooled at room
temperature in addtional to the case and PSU fans. I run MBM5 and it
never sounded any alarm as far as case temp (threshold@30C) and CPU temp
are concerned.

What program can I run to monitor the disk temperature? Thanks.

Al Dykes wrote:

> In article <ueydnSI8raM2upvfRVn-oA@rcn.net>, Sandpiper <no@no.no> wrote:
>
>>I purchased a retail Maxtor 250GB ATA drive about a year ago. Few
>>months later it died. I RMA'ed it to Maxtor and I received the same
>>model replacement. Now the replacement just died, too. Both times the
>>drives had bad blocks.
>>
>>To add insult to injury, when I filled in the RMA form on Maxtor's web
>>site it told me the 9-character diagnostic code I got from PowerMax
>>(v4.09) was not correct (the web page only has room for 8 characters).
>>I followed their link and downloaded the latest (v4.21) version of
>>PowerMax. And guess what, it gave me a 16-character code! Needless to
>>say, this did not work with the RMA form, either.
>>
>>I'm really fed up with Maxtor. Anyone have any suggestion what to do
>>about 1. returning the drive, and 2. finding a READ replacement (read:
>>non-Maxtor drive)?
>>
>
>
>
> Are you keeping these puppies cool ? I like to keep drives belot
> 110DegF.
>
> Heat kills and recently I've heard that there is one chip on the
> circuit board of some drives that runs really hot. The drive, overall,
> can be cool enough but just a little air blockage in the wgong place
> can cook the drive.
>
> Can't help you with the Maxtor RMA process (they's been ok IME, but
> it's been a while).
 
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In article <xdOdnZXSHIEqrJvfRVn-gg@rcn.net>, Sandpiper <no@no.no> wrote:
>
>I run my PC without a case cover. So the internals are cooled at room
>temperature in addtional to the case and PSU fans. I run MBM5 and it
>never sounded any alarm as far as case temp (threshold@30C) and CPU temp
>are concerned.
>
>What program can I run to monitor the disk temperature? Thanks.
>

I'm not happy with any software, so far, and it would be OS-specific,
anyway. It seems that some disk report temp, but not that any I've
bought.

On important systems I use these:

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/cooling/alert/index.htm

$10-$15 bucks each.




>Al Dykes wrote:
>
>> In article <ueydnSI8raM2upvfRVn-oA@rcn.net>, Sandpiper <no@no.no> wrote:
>>
>>>I purchased a retail Maxtor 250GB ATA drive about a year ago. Few
>>>months later it died. I RMA'ed it to Maxtor and I received the same
>>>model replacement. Now the replacement just died, too. Both times the
>>>drives had bad blocks.
>>>
>>>To add insult to injury, when I filled in the RMA form on Maxtor's web
>>>site it told me the 9-character diagnostic code I got from PowerMax
>>>(v4.09) was not correct (the web page only has room for 8 characters).
>>>I followed their link and downloaded the latest (v4.21) version of
>>>PowerMax. And guess what, it gave me a 16-character code! Needless to
>>>say, this did not work with the RMA form, either.
>>>
>>>I'm really fed up with Maxtor. Anyone have any suggestion what to do
>>>about 1. returning the drive, and 2. finding a READ replacement (read:
>>>non-Maxtor drive)?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you keeping these puppies cool ? I like to keep drives belot
>> 110DegF.
>>
>> Heat kills and recently I've heard that there is one chip on the
>> circuit board of some drives that runs really hot. The drive, overall,
>> can be cool enough but just a little air blockage in the wgong place
>> can cook the drive.
>>
>> Can't help you with the Maxtor RMA process (they's been ok IME, but
>> it's been a while).


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Sandpiper wrote:
>
> I run my PC without a case cover.

That may be why your drives are failing. They're not getting any
circulation.

So the internals are cooled at room
> temperature in addtional to the case and PSU fans. I run MBM5 and it
> never sounded any alarm as far as case temp (threshold@30C) and CPU temp
> are concerned.
>
> What program can I run to monitor the disk temperature? Thanks.
>
> Al Dykes wrote:
>
>> In article <ueydnSI8raM2upvfRVn-oA@rcn.net>, Sandpiper <no@no.no> wrote:
>>
>>> I purchased a retail Maxtor 250GB ATA drive about a year ago. Few
>>> months later it died. I RMA'ed it to Maxtor and I received the same
>>> model replacement. Now the replacement just died, too. Both times
>>> the drives had bad blocks.
>>>
>>> To add insult to injury, when I filled in the RMA form on Maxtor's
>>> web site it told me the 9-character diagnostic code I got from
>>> PowerMax (v4.09) was not correct (the web page only has room for 8
>>> characters). I followed their link and downloaded the latest (v4.21)
>>> version of PowerMax. And guess what, it gave me a 16-character
>>> code! Needless to say, this did not work with the RMA form, either.
>>>
>>> I'm really fed up with Maxtor. Anyone have any suggestion what to do
>>> about 1. returning the drive, and 2. finding a READ replacement
>>> (read: non-Maxtor drive)?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you keeping these puppies cool ? I like to keep drives belot
>> 110DegF.
>>
>> Heat kills and recently I've heard that there is one chip on the
>> circuit board of some drives that runs really hot. The drive, overall,
>> can be cool enough but just a little air blockage in the wgong place
>> can cook the drive.
>>
>> Can't help you with the Maxtor RMA process (they's been ok IME, but
>> it's been a while).


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On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 10:03:20 -0500, Sandpiper <no@no.no> wrote:

>
>I run my PC without a case cover. So the internals are cooled at room
>temperature in addtional to the case and PSU fans. I run MBM5 and it
>never sounded any alarm as far as case temp (threshold@30C) and CPU temp
>are concerned.
>
>What program can I run to monitor the disk temperature? Thanks.
>

I use Active Smart from http://www.ariolic.com

In my experience Maxtor drives run at 50C or a bit higher without any
problems. My two 120GB are currently running at 51C. I've never tried
a bigger drive, too many eggs in the basket! I've also got a Quantum
but that doesn't report the temperature so Active Smart hasn't a clue
what it is running at.


Steve Wolstenholme Neural Planner Software
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"Sandpiper" <no@no.no> wrote
>
> I run my PC without a case cover.

This actually leads to less airflow than with the cover on

> So the internals are cooled at room temperature in addtional to the case
> and PSU fans. I run MBM5 and it never sounded any alarm as far as case
> temp (threshold@30C) and CPU temp are concerned.
>
> What program can I run to monitor the disk temperature? Thanks.

MBM can also monitor hard disk temperatures if your hard disks support it,
but not by default, you add them in the sensor settings in mbm.


--
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Does this mean fast and high capacity disk drives (my dead maxtor was a
250GB/7200rpm model) need to be actively cooled? Prior to the maxtor, I
had a Seagate 120GB/7200rpm running in the same case with and without
the cover for over a year and it never gave me any problems. Maybe the
maxtor had a lower tolerance for heat? The first maxtor failed a month
after purchase, the replacement 5 months after.

Come to think of it, both times my problems seemed to be
medium/mechanical related and not related to a chip as another poster
suspected. My guess is that if it's due to electronics the whole drive
would have stopped functioning. But my drive only had a few bad blocks
here and there. I was able to save most of the important files before
running PowerMax which declared the drive a complete failure.

BTW, I appreciate all the inputs you guys gave.

S.Piper

Mike Redrobe wrote:

> "Sandpiper" <no@no.no> wrote
>
>>I run my PC without a case cover.
>
>
> This actually leads to less airflow than with the cover on
>
>
> Mike
>
>
 
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> What program can I run to monitor the disk temperature? Thanks.

Well, I'm using SpeedFan -- it detects any sensors I have in my machine,
and reports as well as monitors the situation.
Also, I have Helexis' Drive Health installed, but it keeps bugging me
every now and then about how the nearest T.E.C. is closer than three
days; however, it tends to change its mind every few hours. ;)
But when my last drive died... the SMART readouts hadn't reported
anything out of the ordinary before it happened.
 
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"Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cu5akm$nd1$1@panix5.panix.com...
> In article <ueydnSI8raM2upvfRVn-oA@rcn.net>, Sandpiper <no@no.no> wrote:
>>
>>I purchased a retail Maxtor 250GB ATA drive about a year ago. Few
>>months later it died. I RMA'ed it to Maxtor and I received the same
>>model replacement. Now the replacement just died, too. Both times the
>>drives had bad blocks.
>>
>>To add insult to injury, when I filled in the RMA form on Maxtor's web
>>site it told me the 9-character diagnostic code I got from PowerMax
>>(v4.09) was not correct (the web page only has room for 8 characters).
>>I followed their link and downloaded the latest (v4.21) version of
>>PowerMax. And guess what, it gave me a 16-character code! Needless to
>>say, this did not work with the RMA form, either.
>>
>>I'm really fed up with Maxtor. Anyone have any suggestion what to do
>>about 1. returning the drive, and 2. finding a READ replacement (read:
>>non-Maxtor drive)?

> Are you keeping these puppies cool ? I like to keep drives belot 110DegF.

Where are you getting the 110 from ?

> Heat kills and recently I've heard that there is one chip
> on the circuit board of some drives that runs really hot.

That claim is easy enough to check with a specific drive.

> The drive, overall, can be cool enough but just a little
> air blockage in the wgong place can cook the drive.

Unlikely to produce the specific symptoms he is getting tho.

> Can't help you with the Maxtor RMA process
> (they's been ok IME, but it's been a while).

I avoid them myself, but thats because they have to
be returned to Singapore when they die in my country
if the seller has gone bust, and thats not cheap to do.
 
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"Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cu5c9e$iho$1@panix5.panix.com...
> In article <xdOdnZXSHIEqrJvfRVn-gg@rcn.net>, Sandpiper <no@no.no> wrote:
>>
>>I run my PC without a case cover. So the internals are cooled at room
>>temperature in addtional to the case and PSU fans. I run MBM5 and it
>>never sounded any alarm as far as case temp (threshold@30C) and CPU temp
>>are concerned.
>>
>>What program can I run to monitor the disk temperature? Thanks.
>>
>
> I'm not happy with any software, so far, and it would be OS-specific,
> anyway. It seems that some disk report temp, but not that any I've
> bought.

What have you bought ? The WDs have added it most recently.

> On important systems I use these:
>
> http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/cooling/alert/index.htm
>
> $10-$15 bucks each.

OK, I can see where you are getting the 110 from now.

I'd rather monitor the temp the drive itself reports.


>>Al Dykes wrote:
>>
>>> In article <ueydnSI8raM2upvfRVn-oA@rcn.net>, Sandpiper <no@no.no> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I purchased a retail Maxtor 250GB ATA drive about a year ago. Few
>>>>months later it died. I RMA'ed it to Maxtor and I received the same
>>>>model replacement. Now the replacement just died, too. Both times the
>>>>drives had bad blocks.
>>>>
>>>>To add insult to injury, when I filled in the RMA form on Maxtor's web
>>>>site it told me the 9-character diagnostic code I got from PowerMax
>>>>(v4.09) was not correct (the web page only has room for 8 characters).
>>>>I followed their link and downloaded the latest (v4.21) version of
>>>>PowerMax. And guess what, it gave me a 16-character code! Needless to
>>>>say, this did not work with the RMA form, either.
>>>>
>>>>I'm really fed up with Maxtor. Anyone have any suggestion what to do
>>>>about 1. returning the drive, and 2. finding a READ replacement (read:
>>>>non-Maxtor drive)?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you keeping these puppies cool ? I like to keep drives belot
>>> 110DegF.
>>>
>>> Heat kills and recently I've heard that there is one chip on the
>>> circuit board of some drives that runs really hot. The drive, overall,
>>> can be cool enough but just a little air blockage in the wgong place
>>> can cook the drive.
>>>
>>> Can't help you with the Maxtor RMA process (they's been ok IME, but
>>> it's been a while).
>
>
> --
>
> a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
>
> Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
 
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In article <36n2p2F5539p9U1@individual.net>,
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
>news:cu5c9e$iho$1@panix5.panix.com...
>> In article <xdOdnZXSHIEqrJvfRVn-gg@rcn.net>, Sandpiper <no@no.no> wrote:
>>>
>>>I run my PC without a case cover. So the internals are cooled at room
>>>temperature in addtional to the case and PSU fans. I run MBM5 and it
>>>never sounded any alarm as far as case temp (threshold@30C) and CPU temp
>>>are concerned.
>>>
>>>What program can I run to monitor the disk temperature? Thanks.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not happy with any software, so far, and it would be OS-specific,
>> anyway. It seems that some disk report temp, but not that any I've
>> bought.
>
>What have you bought ? The WDs have added it most recently.
>
>> On important systems I use these:
>>
>> http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/cooling/alert/index.htm
>>
>> $10-$15 bucks each.
>
>OK, I can see where you are getting the 110 from now.
>
>I'd rather monitor the temp the drive itself reports.
>


110Deg also happens to be a little lower than the spec sheets for disk
drives call for. It's a good point. Cool is very good for disk
reliability.



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Previously Sandpiper <no@no.no> wrote:

> Does this mean fast and high capacity disk drives (my dead maxtor was a
> 250GB/7200rpm model) need to be actively cooled? Prior to the maxtor, I
> had a Seagate 120GB/7200rpm running in the same case with and without
> the cover for over a year and it never gave me any problems. Maybe the
> maxtor had a lower tolerance for heat? The first maxtor failed a month
> after purchase, the replacement 5 months after.

Maxtors need to be well cooled. Thei produc manual says 50C maximum.
It is not like they are hiding this fact.

> Come to think of it, both times my problems seemed to be
> medium/mechanical related and not related to a chip as another poster
> suspected. My guess is that if it's due to electronics the whole drive
> would have stopped functioning. But my drive only had a few bad blocks
> here and there. I was able to save most of the important files before
> running PowerMax which declared the drive a complete failure.

Actually _very_ few bad blocks (<10) seem to be normal for these
drives, if the disk reallocated them by itself and no data was
lost.

Arno
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Every drive needs to be cooled. Any electric device will overheat
without any cooling - the waste heat has to go somewhere after all.
Thermal conduction cooling is only sufficient for notebook drives. A
device creates its own airflow through convection but that is only
significant when the device's temperature is far above the ambient air
temperature (think soldering iron or light bulb.) So, it boils down to
"how much airflow do I need to keep the device within its operating
temperature range, and preferably well below the maximum temperature
for reliability." Since a home user doesn't usually bother to measure
temperatures or airflow, you can only stick to drives that are designed
for standard PC use (i.e. burn about 10W max.) and mount them in a
drive slot in a standard PC enclosure with standard air flow, i.e.
closed case, (working!) fans etc. Or you can go high performance with a
server case that provides higher airflow but emits more noise too.
That doesn't mean anything else won't work. I recently smelled
something electric next to one of my systems and the (cheap sleeve
bearing) power supply fan had failed. The power supply, CPU and disk
drive felt severely hot but the secondary fan had kept them alive. Not
a recommended operating mode for long term reliability obviously. I'll
replace that box asap and relegate the disk drive to something
noncritical.
 
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If you know a disk drive vendor who specifies "you don't need any
airflow" please cite a reference. If you use conductive cooling only,
where does the heat go? How is the "metal drive bay stack" cooled? Are
you trying to say you can conduct 10W over a couple of centimeters of
sheet metal into the outer case? Or are you saying that the internal
air flow of the box should be sufficient to cool the drive mounting?

Every disk drive manual I know specifies airflow. From the latest
Maxtor FAQ on cooling:
The minimum specified airflow for all Maxtor hard disks is 150 LFM
(Linear Feet per Minute). Most case designs and drive bay fans produce
more than 150 LFM of airflow.

Anf from the latest SATA Barracuda manual:
Allow a minimum clearance of 0.030 inches (0.76 mm) around the entire
perimeter of the drive for cooling.

That doesn't sound like conductive cooling to me.

Note that this is about reliability, not what you can get away with.
And, yes, the box that nearly died was an old system without temp or
fan monitoring.
 
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RPR <rohbeck@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1107801236.561165.129060@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

> Every drive needs to be cooled. Any electric device will overheat
> without any cooling - the waste heat has to go somewhere after all.

> Thermal conduction cooling is only sufficient for notebook drives.

Wrong. There are plenty of drives that are adequately
cooled by conduction to the metal drive bay stack.

> A device creates its own airflow through convection but that is only
> significant when the device's temperature is far above the ambient air
> temperature (think soldering iron or light bulb.)

There is a lot more involved than convection cooling with a drive
installed in a metal drive bay stack. They loose much more heat
by conduction to the metal drive bay stack, which is why the
Barracudas could get away with having a substantial rubber
cover that prevents most convection, to cut the noise down.

> So, it boils down to "how much airflow do I need to keep the
> device within its operating temperature range, and preferably
> well below the maximum temperature for reliability."

Nope, you're ignoring the conduction to the metal drive bay stack.

> Since a home user doesn't usually bother to measure temperatures

Thats just plain wrong now when its so easy with the SMART temp.

> or airflow, you can only stick to drives that are designed
> for standard PC use (i.e. burn about 10W max.) and
> mount them in a drive slot in a standard PC enclosure
> with standard air flow, i.e. closed case, (working!) fans etc.

Wrong again. Plenty do fine with conduction to the metal drive
bay stack, and plenty of modern drives are well below 10W too.

> Or you can go high performance with a server case
> that provides higher airflow but emits more noise too.

And you can get decent quiet fans too.

> That doesn't mean anything else won't work. I recently smelled
> something electric next to one of my systems and the (cheap sleeve
> bearing) power supply fan had failed. The power supply, CPU and disk
> drive felt severely hot but the secondary fan had kept them alive. Not
> a recommended operating mode for long term reliability obviously.

And it makes a lot of sense to have some system that
alarms on higher temps seen in that sort of situation.

> I'll replace that box asap and relegate
> the disk drive to something noncritical.

And you wouldnt need to if you had an over temp alarm.
 
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RPR <rohbeck@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1107815777.277972.141980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> If you know a disk drive vendor who specifies "you
> don't need any airflow" please cite a reference.

I dont give a damn what the vendors specify, I have been
running drives without any deliberate airflow while monitoring
the drive SMART temp years and years now and have seen
that they ALL manage it fine as long as you arent stupid
enough to mount a number of them with no spare drive
bay between them in that situation.

And I like the room temperature higher than most, and only turn
the cooling on when the temp is over about 32C/90F in summer.

> If you use conductive cooling only, where does the heat go?
> How is the "metal drive bay stack" cooled?

It convects to the room air when the case is used without covers.

> Are you trying to say you can conduct 10W

Most modern drives arent anything like that now.

> over a couple of centimeters of sheet metal into the outer case?

Nope, when the case is used without covers, as
was being discussed, it convects to the room air.

> Or are you saying that the internal air flow of the
> box should be sufficient to cool the drive mounting?

It normally is with just the power supply fan if you dont
go mounting more than one modern drive immediately
adjacent without a spare drive bay between them.

> Every disk drive manual I know specifies airflow.

Some dont even bother with manuals anymore.

> From the latest Maxtor FAQ on cooling:
> The minimum specified airflow for all Maxtor hard disks is
> 150 LFM (Linear Feet per Minute). Most case designs and
> drive bay fans produce more than 150 LFM of airflow.

Irrelevant to what was being discussed, running
the case without covers and the drive temp.

Perfectly possible and that is the case with this
particular machine I'm using, with a room temp
of 31.2C. The drive SMART temp is still fine.

> Anf from the latest SATA Barracuda manual:
> Allow a minimum clearance of 0.030 inches (0.76 mm)
> around the entire perimeter of the drive for cooling.

And it doesnt say to not run it in a case without the covers on.

> That doesn't sound like conductive cooling to me.

More fool you. It should be obvious that with the rubber cover
the Barras have that it can be airflow over what gets hot.

> Note that this is about reliability, not what you can get away with.

Sure. Thats why I commented on the drive SMART temp.

> And, yes, the box that nearly died was an
> old system without temp or fan monitoring.

Irrelevant to your earlier claim about monitoring.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

>I dont give a damn what the vendors specify,
Well I work for a storage vendor so you'll have to excuse my slightly
different viewpoint.
 
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