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the nightmare is finally over! we won!

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Anonymous
April 30, 2005 8:40:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

x-no-archive: yes

the nightmare pc games have been living for the past months
when valve started infecting steam into the pc game retail
market is over! it has finally ended!
the retail channel will no longer be infected by abusive and
damaging steam! we won! we won!
read the news its unbelievably good!
http://www.bluesnews.com/

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

More about : nightmare finally

Anonymous
April 30, 2005 12:55:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

> Wait, wait. This *doesn't* mean that Steam is dead.

Please, please - not so loud
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 2:19:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Peter [AGHL] wrote:

>>Wait, wait. This *doesn't* mean that Steam is dead.
>
>
> Please, please - not so loud
>

What does AGHL mean?
Related resources
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 4:22:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

> Its some sort of Kiddies club from alt.games.half-life

You could call it a kiddies club if you like but if you take the total
sum of the age of each "member" we are surprisingly few compared
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 6:56:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

> x-no-archive: yes

Weirdo.

> the nightmare pc games have been living for the past
> months when valve started infecting steam into the pc
> game retail market is over! it has finally ended!
> the retail channel will no longer be infected by
> busive and damaging steam! we won! we won!
> read the news its unbelievably good!
> http://www.bluesnews.com/

This is terrific news for developers such as Valve BUT consumers who
would otherwise like to enjoy games such as Half-Life 2 without the
intrusive Steam platform are still left with no recourse. As it stands
if you want to play Half-Life 2 or Counter-Strike: Source you are
forced to install Steam on your system and get an 'okay' from Valve's
authentication servers before you're allowed to even play the copy you
payed for. That's unacceptable in this market. I wouldn't suggest
that 'the customer is always right' but this complete disregard for the
end user is an insult.

--
Best Regards, mattchu
np: [ ]
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 8:13:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

James Garvin wrote:
> Peter [AGHL] wrote:
>
>>> Wait, wait. This *doesn't* mean that Steam is dead.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please, please - not so loud
>>
>
> What does AGHL mean?

alt.games.half-life
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 10:03:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

mattchu wrote:

> This is terrific news for developers such as Valve BUT consumers who
> would otherwise like to enjoy games such as Half-Life 2 without the
> intrusive Steam platform are still left with no recourse. As it stands
> if you want to play Half-Life 2 or Counter-Strike: Source you are
> forced to install Steam on your system and get an 'okay' from Valve's
> authentication servers before you're allowed to even play the copy you
> payed for. That's unacceptable in this market. I wouldn't suggest
> that 'the customer is always right' but this complete disregard for the
> end user is an insult.

I agree. Steam is the one thing I hate about HL2.
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 10:18:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"James Garvin" <jgarvin2004@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:o 9GdnWOYeo6PMO7fRVn-tA@comcast.com
> Peter [AGHL] wrote:
>
>>> Wait, wait. This *doesn't* mean that Steam is dead.
>>
>>
>> Please, please - not so loud
>>
>
> What does AGHL mean?

It's one of the usenet newsgroups you crossposted your response to :) 
McG.
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 1:03:08 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

James Garvin wrote:
> Peter [AGHL] wrote:
>
>>> Wait, wait. This *doesn't* mean that Steam is dead.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please, please - not so loud
>>
>
> What does AGHL mean?

Its some sort of Kiddies club from alt.games.half-life
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 5:41:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On 30/4/05 9:40 PM, steamKILLER wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> the nightmare pc games have been living for the past months
> when valve started infecting steam into the pc game retail
> market is over! it has finally ended!
> the retail channel will no longer be infected by abusive and
> damaging steam! we won! we won!
> read the news its unbelievably good!
> http://www.bluesnews.com/

Wait, wait. This *doesn't* mean that Steam is dead. It means that
boxed retail of Valve games is dead. If anything, it means that Steam
will become more insidious since this will be their *only* means of
delivering content.
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 5:41:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Richard Cavell <richardcavell@mail.com> wrote in news:D 5088i$plq$2
@nnrp.waia.asn.au:

> On 30/4/05 9:40 PM, steamKILLER wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
>> the nightmare pc games have been living for the past months
>> when valve started infecting steam into the pc game retail
>> market is over! it has finally ended!
>> the retail channel will no longer be infected by abusive and
>> damaging steam! we won! we won!
>> read the news its unbelievably good!
>> http://www.bluesnews.com/
>
> Wait, wait. This *doesn't* mean that Steam is dead. It means that
> boxed retail of Valve games is dead. If anything, it means that Steam
> will become more insidious since this will be their *only* means of
> delivering content.

do you think they wont be able to find a new publisher easily? either that
or they can afford to publish them themselves
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 5:41:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Sun, 01 May 2005 01:41:40 +1000, Richard Cavell
<richardcavell@mail.com> wrote:

>On 30/4/05 9:40 PM, steamKILLER wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
>> the nightmare pc games have been living for the past months
>> when valve started infecting steam into the pc game retail
>> market is over! it has finally ended!
>> the retail channel will no longer be infected by abusive and
>> damaging steam! we won! we won!
>> read the news its unbelievably good!
>> http://www.bluesnews.com/
>
>Wait, wait. This *doesn't* mean that Steam is dead. It means that
>boxed retail of Valve games is dead. If anything, it means that Steam
>will become more insidious since this will be their *only* means of
>delivering content.

Valve is not the only PC game-developer on the planet..........

John Lewis
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 5:41:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Richard Cavell" <richardcavell@mail.com> wrote in message
news:D 5088i$plq$2@nnrp.waia.asn.au
> On 30/4/05 9:40 PM, steamKILLER wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
>> the nightmare pc games have been living for the past months
>> when valve started infecting steam into the pc game retail
>> market is over! it has finally ended!
>> the retail channel will no longer be infected by abusive and
>> damaging steam! we won! we won!
>> read the news its unbelievably good!
>> http://www.bluesnews.com/
>
> Wait, wait. This *doesn't* mean that Steam is dead. It means that
> boxed retail of Valve games is dead. If anything, it means that Steam
> will become more insidious since this will be their *only* means of
> delivering content.

Actually, none of that is stated. Only that Valve is now the sole
owner/distributor of its own games. Is there anything to say that Valve
cannot distribute through boxed retail also? I don't see anything to
say that :)  This simply means that the *publisher* is now out of the
picture.
McG.
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 5:41:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On 30 Apr 2005 16:27:23 GMT, Stone Monkey
<tenny2k@NOSPAMrtennant.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>Richard Cavell <richardcavell@mail.com> wrote in news:D 5088i$plq$2
>@nnrp.waia.asn.au:
>
>> On 30/4/05 9:40 PM, steamKILLER wrote:
>>> x-no-archive: yes
>>>
>>> the nightmare pc games have been living for the past months
>>> when valve started infecting steam into the pc game retail
>>> market is over! it has finally ended!
>>> the retail channel will no longer be infected by abusive and
>>> damaging steam! we won! we won!
>>> read the news its unbelievably good!
>>> http://www.bluesnews.com/
>>
>> Wait, wait. This *doesn't* mean that Steam is dead. It means that
>> boxed retail of Valve games is dead. If anything, it means that Steam
>> will become more insidious since this will be their *only* means of
>> delivering content.
>
>do you think they wont be able to find a new publisher easily? either that
>or they can afford to publish them themselves

I don't know how popular the retail channel of Steam was, but I can
see them relying solely on it if they sold many copies through the
system.

Lynley
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 5:41:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Stone Monkey" <tenny2k@NOSPAMrtennant.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4273b1eb$0$544$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net
> Richard Cavell <richardcavell@mail.com> wrote in news:D 5088i$plq$2
> @nnrp.waia.asn.au:
>
>> On 30/4/05 9:40 PM, steamKILLER wrote:
>>> x-no-archive: yes
>>>
>>> the nightmare pc games have been living for the past months
>>> when valve started infecting steam into the pc game retail
>>> market is over! it has finally ended!
>>> the retail channel will no longer be infected by abusive and
>>> damaging steam! we won! we won!
>>> read the news its unbelievably good!
>>> http://www.bluesnews.com/
>>
>> Wait, wait. This *doesn't* mean that Steam is dead. It means that
>> boxed retail of Valve games is dead. If anything, it means that
>> Steam will become more insidious since this will be their *only*
>> means of delivering content.
>
> do you think they wont be able to find a new publisher easily? either
> that or they can afford to publish them themselves

I believe Gabe could hire a printing/packaging company to do it :) 
McG.
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 5:41:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On 30 Apr 2005 16:27:23 GMT, Stone Monkey
<tenny2k@NOSPAMrtennant.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>Richard Cavell <richardcavell@mail.com> wrote in news:D 5088i$plq$2
>@nnrp.waia.asn.au:
>
>> On 30/4/05 9:40 PM, steamKILLER wrote:
>>> x-no-archive: yes
>>>
>>> the nightmare pc games have been living for the past months
>>> when valve started infecting steam into the pc game retail
>>> market is over! it has finally ended!
>>> the retail channel will no longer be infected by abusive and
>>> damaging steam! we won! we won!
>>> read the news its unbelievably good!
>>> http://www.bluesnews.com/
>>
>> Wait, wait. This *doesn't* mean that Steam is dead. It means that
>> boxed retail of Valve games is dead. If anything, it means that Steam
>> will become more insidious since this will be their *only* means of
>> delivering content.
>
>do you think they wont be able to find a new publisher easily?

Or retailers either ?

How many distributors/retailers are willing to venture into the morass
of competition with an unknown number of Steam download ?
What about the freedom to discount at the retail level... which
currently undercuts the cost of HL2 via Steam ?
Any distributor taking on Steam games would need a cast-iron
guarantee of 100% (plus interest and overhead) compensation
of the manufacturing cost of any retail-returned or unsold games
from Valve.

>or they can afford to publish them themselves

Yeah, that may be their only (money-losing) choice if they want a
retail presence. ( The history of retail distribution of PC games has
not been a happy one. Only a few long-term survivors.)
Again cast-iron guarantees to the retailers of 100%
compensation for unsold copies, since the presence of Steam
download throws a monkey-wrench into any predictions
of retail-sales quantities. And what about the customary retail
discount-sale prices of popular games a few weeks after release..
without requiring permission from Valve ? Loss-leaders to get
customers into the store (and to the game-racks). Steam
download sure offers no comparative discounts.... so far.


John Lewis
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 5:41:43 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Lynley James <lynley.james@gmail.com> wrote in
news:rod7715bfq1d6h8jc5uadhapg7fn9irakg@4ax.com:

> On 30 Apr 2005 16:27:23 GMT, Stone Monkey
> <tenny2k@NOSPAMrtennant.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Richard Cavell <richardcavell@mail.com> wrote in news:D 5088i$plq$2
>>@nnrp.waia.asn.au:
>>
>>> On 30/4/05 9:40 PM, steamKILLER wrote:
>>>> x-no-archive: yes
>>>>
>>>> the nightmare pc games have been living for the past months
>>>> when valve started infecting steam into the pc game retail
>>>> market is over! it has finally ended!
>>>> the retail channel will no longer be infected by abusive and
>>>> damaging steam! we won! we won!
>>>> read the news its unbelievably good!
>>>> http://www.bluesnews.com/
>>>
>>> Wait, wait. This *doesn't* mean that Steam is dead. It means that
>>> boxed retail of Valve games is dead. If anything, it means that
>>> Steam will become more insidious since this will be their *only*
>>> means of delivering content.
>>
>>do you think they wont be able to find a new publisher easily? either
>>that or they can afford to publish them themselves
>
> I don't know how popular the retail channel of Steam was, but I can
> see them relying solely on it if they sold many copies through the
> system.
>
> Lynley
>

even if they had sold alot of copies they would still lose alot of
customers by not finding another publisher or doing it themselves, when i
got half life i only had dial up and it was a pain in the arse but it was
still possible to play it, and now thay they have released all of the
updates through pc gamer then dial up people can get it aswell, so they
certainly haven't forgotten about dial up users
May 1, 2005 5:41:43 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

> Yeah, that may be their only (money-losing) choice if they want a
> retail presence. ( The history of retail distribution of PC games has
> not been a happy one. Only a few long-term survivors.)
> Again cast-iron guarantees to the retailers of 100%
> compensation for unsold copies, since the presence of Steam
> download throws a monkey-wrench into any predictions
> of retail-sales quantities. And what about the customary retail
> discount-sale prices of popular games a few weeks after release..
> without requiring permission from Valve ? Loss-leaders to get
> customers into the store (and to the game-racks). Steam
> download sure offers no comparative discounts.... so far.
>

What's your next pet project ?
Surely you have some bile left over for another games developer.
Waster.
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 7:55:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"mattchu" <wintlerpark@hotmail.com> once tried to test me with:

> if you want to play Half-Life 2 or Counter-Strike: Source you are
> forced to install Steam on your system and get an 'okay' from Valve's
> authentication servers before you're allowed to even play the copy you
> payed for. That's unacceptable in this market. I wouldn't suggest
> that 'the customer is always right' but this complete disregard for the
> end user is an insult.

If you want to play CS:S then you got to go online anyway so what's the
BFD? As for HL2, yes, ONCE you have to go online and authenticate. But you
can continue to play it in offline mode after you've authenticated once. If
you don't want steam to try and authenticate every time, either block it
with a firewall program, or just disconnect the modem/ethernet cable.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 9:55:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Richard Cavell" <richardcavell@mail.com> wrote in message
news:D 5088i$plq$2@nnrp.waia.asn.au...
> On 30/4/05 9:40 PM, steamKILLER wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
>> the nightmare pc games have been living for the past months
>> when valve started infecting steam into the pc game retail
>> market is over! it has finally ended!
>> the retail channel will no longer be infected by abusive and
>> damaging steam! we won! we won!
>> read the news its unbelievably good!
>> http://www.bluesnews.com/
>
> Wait, wait. This *doesn't* mean that Steam is dead. It means that boxed
> retail of Valve games is dead. If anything, it means that Steam will
> become more insidious since this will be their *only* means of delivering
> content.

How this guy isn't working for the US ministry of Information is beyond me.
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 4:33:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On 1 May 2005 03:55:21 GMT, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:

>"mattchu" <wintlerpark@hotmail.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>> if you want to play Half-Life 2 or Counter-Strike: Source you are
>> forced to install Steam on your system and get an 'okay' from Valve's
>> authentication servers before you're allowed to even play the copy you
>> payed for. That's unacceptable in this market. I wouldn't suggest
>> that 'the customer is always right' but this complete disregard for the
>> end user is an insult.
>
>If you want to play CS:S then you got to go online anyway so what's the
>BFD? As for HL2, yes, ONCE you have to go online and authenticate. But you
>can continue to play it in offline mode after you've authenticated once. If
>you don't want steam to try and authenticate every time, either block it
>with a firewall program, or just disconnect the modem/ethernet cable.

Hey! No one asked you to butt in with straight talking, no nonsense facts, now
did they?!? ;-)
May 2, 2005 5:13:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Peter [AGHL] wrote:
>>Its some sort of Kiddies club from alt.games.half-life
>
>
> You could call it a kiddies club if you like but if you take the total
> sum of the age of each "member" we are surprisingly few compared
>

All them "Kiddies" are them wet-behind-the-ears 20 something year old punks.
Kids... bah! :-)
--
Jethro[AGHL] aka Phat_Pinger
Reply Email: jethro86 (at) gmail (dot) com
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 4:16:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Vince wrote:
> "Peter [AGHL]" wrote
> >> Its some sort of Kiddies club from alt.games.half-life
>
> > You could call it a kiddies club if you like but if you take the
total
> > sum of the age of each "member" we are surprisingly few compared
>
> It would make more sense to work out the average instead of just the
sum.

"surprisingly few compared" to a high value when you take the sum how's
the average then?
May 3, 2005 10:42:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Peter [AGHL]" wrote
>> Its some sort of Kiddies club from alt.games.half-life

> You could call it a kiddies club if you like but if you take the total
> sum of the age of each "member" we are surprisingly few compared

It would make more sense to work out the average instead of just the sum.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 12:01:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Vince wrote:
> "Peter [AGHL]" wrote
>
> > Vince wrote:
> >> "Peter [AGHL]" wrote
> >> >> Its some sort of Kiddies club from alt.games.half-life
>
> >> > You could call it a kiddies club if you like but if you take the
> > total
> >> > sum of the age of each "member" we are surprisingly few compared
>
> >> It would make more sense to work out the average instead of just
the
> > sum.
>
> > "surprisingly few compared" to a high value when you take the sum
how's
> > the average then?
>
> That's not even close to being a full sentence.
>
> You sound like Nigel Pry from the 'Radioactive' radio programme.

Ahh - you are not able to comprehend then?
May 3, 2005 12:49:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Peter [AGHL]" <peter.aghl@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115104584.495273.175750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Vince wrote:
>> "Peter [AGHL]" wrote
>> >> Its some sort of Kiddies club from alt.games.half-life
>>
>> > You could call it a kiddies club if you like but if you take the
> total
>> > sum of the age of each "member" we are surprisingly few compared
>>
>> It would make more sense to work out the average instead of just the
> sum.
>
> "surprisingly few compared" to a high value when you take the sum how's
> the average then?
>

From an old post in AGHL and 33 responses the average age is AGHL is 48.
Take from that what you will.
May 3, 2005 4:15:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Peter [AGHL]" wrote

> Vince wrote:
>> "Peter [AGHL]" wrote
>> >> Its some sort of Kiddies club from alt.games.half-life

>> > You could call it a kiddies club if you like but if you take the
> total
>> > sum of the age of each "member" we are surprisingly few compared

>> It would make more sense to work out the average instead of just the
> sum.

> "surprisingly few compared" to a high value when you take the sum how's
> the average then?

That's not even close to being a full sentence.

You sound like Nigel Pry from the 'Radioactive' radio programme.
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 12:38:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

> Were did you find that?

A quite interesting thread from december

World's oldest half life player
http://surl.dk/nx/
May 4, 2005 3:18:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Shawk wrote:
> "Peter [AGHL]" <peter.aghl@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1115104584.495273.175750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Vince wrote:
>>
>>>"Peter [AGHL]" wrote
>>>
>>>>>Its some sort of Kiddies club from alt.games.half-life
>>>
>>>>You could call it a kiddies club if you like but if you take the
>>
>>total
>>
>>>>sum of the age of each "member" we are surprisingly few compared
>>>
>>>It would make more sense to work out the average instead of just the
>>
>>sum.
>>
>>"surprisingly few compared" to a high value when you take the sum how's
>>the average then?
>>
>
>
> From an old post in AGHL and 33 responses the average age is AGHL is 48.
> Take from that what you will.
>
>

Were did you find that? I searched the Google archives and couldn't find
the thread about ages.
But good to see that I'm below average!! w00t!! Wait a minute...

--
Jethro[AGHL] aka Phat_Pinger
Reply Email: jethro86 (at) gmail (dot) com
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 11:05:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

>>you are forced to install Steam on your system and get an 'okay' from
>>Valve's authentication servers before you're allowed to even play the copy
>>you payed for. That's unacceptable in this market.


Agreed 100%. I would never ever buy another Valve developed game.



--
Dave -
www.blurredistinction.com/director
www.macromedia.com/go/team
!