a day of victory for pc games!

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

x-no-archive: yes

the end of the steam infestation in the retail channel
is fantastic news for pc games!

spyware abusive against consumer rights technologies like
steam have no place in the healthy retail pc game market

vivendi listen to pc gamers and made the right decision
leave tyrant monopolistic greedy dictator valve alone
let valve die all alone and rotten in hell

long live pc games!
long live vivendi!
down to steam!
down to valve!

http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=8010

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam
39 answers Last reply
More about victory games
  1. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "steamKILLER" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
    news:1114862447.225723.252850@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

    > x-no-archive: yes
    >
    > the end of the steam infestation in the retail channel
    > is fantastic news for pc games!

    And this is your last post, then? YEAH!
  2. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    > Only for the few that now want to buy Valve games
    > and Valve lose a vital retail presence....

    Depends
    Look at the market for popular music
    Stores is opening for buying and downloading music online
    Alternative artist ditributes their own music online getting a chance
    to reach their audience a chance which couldn't get before

    On the professional software market it is quite common to buy and
    download your software directly from creator
    Legato, VMWare, TekLynx, Symnatec, SoftImage, Discreet and most of
    these still have their retail distributors if needed

    Imho distributing games online opens up for more specialized and
    experimenting productions

    rgds
  3. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "steamKILLER" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1114862447.225723.252850@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com
    > x-no-archive: yes
    >
    > the end of the steam infestation in the retail channel
    > is fantastic news for pc games!
    >
    > spyware abusive against consumer rights technologies like
    > steam have no place in the healthy retail pc game market
    >
    > vivendi listen to pc gamers and made the right decision
    > leave tyrant monopolistic greedy dictator valve alone
    > let valve die all alone and rotten in hell
    >
    > long live pc games!
    > long live vivendi!
    > down to steam!
    > down to valve!
    >
    > http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=8010

    What this means is that Valve is now the sole owner and distributor of
    its own products. It means also (I think) that Valve may publish and
    distribute its own products through all retail channels now. It means
    Valve won. And that means WE win.

    BTW- Vivendi Universal is the dictator. YOU, however, are a
    propagandist. :)

    Good day, and good bye.

    McG.
  4. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "Peter [AGHL]" <peter.aghl@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1114887267.446807.122840@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    >> Only for the few that now want to buy Valve games
    >> and Valve lose a vital retail presence....
    >
    > Depends
    > Look at the market for popular music
    > Stores is opening for buying and downloading music online
    > Alternative artist ditributes their own music online getting a chance
    > to reach their audience a chance which couldn't get before
    >
    > On the professional software market it is quite common to buy and
    > download your software directly from creator
    > Legato, VMWare, TekLynx, Symnatec, SoftImage, Discreet and most of
    > these still have their retail distributors if needed
    >
    > Imho distributing games online opens up for more specialized and
    > experimenting productions
    >
    > rgds
    >

    Hmm, I personally have never seen any of discreets products in any store.
  5. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> once tried to test me with:

    > BTW- Vivendi Universal is the dictator. YOU, however, are a
    > propagandist. :)

    He reminds me of the Minister of Information of Iraq.

    --

    Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

    Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
  6. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "steamKILLER" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1114862447.225723.252850@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    > x-no-archive: yes
    >

    goddamn you are annoying
  7. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "steamKILLER" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1114862447.225723.252850@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    > x-no-archive: yes
    >
    > the end of the steam infestation in the retail channel
    > is fantastic news for pc games!
    >
    > spyware abusive against consumer rights technologies like
    > steam have no place in the healthy retail pc game market
    >
    > vivendi listen to pc gamers and made the right decision
    > leave tyrant monopolistic greedy dictator valve alone
    > let valve die all alone and rotten in hell
    >
    > long live pc games!
    > long live vivendi!
    > down to steam!
    > down to valve!
    >
    > http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=8010
    >
    > --
    > post made in a steam-free computer
    > i said "NO" to valve and steam
    >

    Did you ever think, ever, that there are more important things to consider?

    "... rotten in hell...." As if soldiers fighting in wars care about all
    this nonsense. Maybe a little consideration of education instead of all
    this?

    Well, what I say is unimportant, since I'm commenting on something that is
    doubly unimportant.

    Alanb
  8. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
    news:Xns96489A51E8BF3knight37m@130.133.1.4
    > "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> once tried to test me with:
    >
    >> BTW- Vivendi Universal is the dictator. YOU, however, are a
    >> propagandist. :)
    >
    > He reminds me of the Minister of Information of Iraq.

    They go to school for that yaknow?


    The Games will come.

    Build it, and they will play it.

    The PC....it is *our* Field Of Dreams.

    McG.
  9. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
    news:Xns96489A51E8BF3knight37m@130.133.1.4...
    > "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> once tried to test me with:
    >
    >> BTW- Vivendi Universal is the dictator. YOU, however, are a
    >> propagandist. :)
    >
    > He reminds me of the Minister of Information of Iraq.
    >

    Perhaps it is him. Hired by Valve to spread the word ;-)
  10. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    In article <4273cc07.2233395@news.verizon.net>,
    John Lewis <john.dsl@verizon.net> wrote:
    > Without future retail distribution, Valve is sunk. And attempting to

    I suspect that within ten years or less, "retail games" will be an
    anchronism as ridiculous as "Beanie Babies". I bet you still buy plane
    tickets by going to the airport, too.

    Rick R.
  11. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    On Sun, 1 May 2005 00:38:59 +0000 (UTC), rickr@is.rice.edu (Rick
    Russell) wrote:

    >In article <4273cc07.2233395@news.verizon.net>,
    >John Lewis <john.dsl@verizon.net> wrote:
    >> Without future retail distribution, Valve is sunk. And attempting to
    >
    >I suspect that within ten years or less, "retail games" will be an
    >anchronism as ridiculous as "Beanie Babies". I bet you still buy plane
    >tickets by going to the airport, too.
    >

    You are really confused. Plane tickets are in the category of
    time-dependent transactions, just like Fandango movie tickets, Fedex
    charges and MMO monthly fees.

    The notion of buying, keeping and replaying a single-player game will
    persist long after you are dead, whether it be for a console, a PC
    Mark XX, a MacXXXX or whatever. In a related field, do you really
    think that the era of downloaded music will kill the purchase of music
    on a CD or DVD ? The CD killed the LP record, but solely because the
    CD is a far more convenient and robust physical medium. Now maybe the
    CD will be replaced by an even more convenient physical medium, or CD
    music prices will fall due to competition from download but the need
    for the purchaser to have a tangible container for his entertainment
    will still be there. Also, what will replace the marketing impact of a
    pretty wrapper for the casual purchaser ? How do you wrap up a
    downloaded game and put it under the Christmas tree... oh, by the way
    if you wish to play this game you will need to log-on, open a Steam
    account, hope the authentication server is up when everybody else is
    also trying to enjoy their downloaded gift and futz around for half a
    day downloading irrelevant updates ............

    John Lewis

    >Rick R.
    >
  12. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) once tried to test me with:

    > the need
    > for the purchaser to have a tangible container for his entertainment
    > will still be there.

    Why?

    In a world where everyone has an iPod, lets say, for example, why not just
    have kiosks where you walk up and it puts in the songs you select, and
    deducts it from your account. Instant gratification.

    If you want to talk about getting gifts for people, it's very simple. You
    buy the gift, it goes into the receiver's account, and the next time they
    hit a kiosk or go online, they get it. And it can even print out some kind
    of gift card you can use to physically give to them.

    Surely you're not falling for SayNo's stupid "the box is the most important
    thing" bullshit, are you?

    --

    Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

    Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
  13. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Knight37 wrote:

    > Surely you're not falling for SayNo's stupid "the box is the most important
    > thing" bullshit, are you?
    >

    Sorry, but the box is no bullshit. People need things like that to
    orient themselves.
  14. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    On Sun, 01 May 2005 00:12:15 -0400, ToolPackinMama
    <laura@lauragoodwin.org> wrote:

    >Sorry, but the box is no bullshit. People need things like that to
    >orient themselves.

    LOL, too funny. All this e-commerce stuff will never catch on will it.
    --
    Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
    Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
    please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
    Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
  15. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "John Lewis" wrote

    > Now maybe the
    > CD will be replaced by an even more convenient physical medium, or CD
    > music prices will fall due to competition from download but the need
    > for the purchaser to have a tangible container for his entertainment
    > will still be there.

    I disagree John. People will get used to it. I know it's not gaming
    software but to give a personal example of how attitudes change I've bought
    McAfee online for years. At first it *was* wierd not having a CD and I just
    had to order a backup CD (at additional cost). Now - I really like the
    convenience of it. I dropped a new 160GB disk in the PC yesterday and put a
    fresh install of XP Pro on there. Then I went to the McAfee site, signed
    into my account and downloaded my AV and firewall - nice and easy. Then I
    did the same with Mailwasher Pro and, of course, HL2. Much easier than
    going through all the disks I have on the shelves. I now have a lot of
    software with no physical medium - for me it has become normal - I buy a lot
    of software online now.

    > Also, what will replace the marketing impact of a
    > pretty wrapper for the casual purchaser ?

    Good question - be interesting to see how sales are affected when they lose
    the casual/browser buyer who sees the game in a shop and buys on impulse.
    They must be pretty confident though.

    > How do you wrap up a
    > downloaded game and put it under the Christmas tree...

    Bought members of my family d-loaded software a number of times now. Last
    one was a copy of Mailwasher Pro last month for a birthday gift. No-one has
    complained yet

    > oh, by the way
    > if you wish to play this game you will need to log-on, open a Steam
    > account, hope the authentication server is up when everybody else is
    > also trying to enjoy their downloaded gift and futz around for half a
    > day downloading irrelevant updates ............

    Installed my retail HL2 and after 15mins of d-loading files to unlock it I
    was playing. This was the day of release back in November. Never had a
    problem since.
  16. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "Shawk" <shawk@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote in message
    news:1114943313.40582.0@iris.uk.clara.net
    > "John Lewis" wrote
    >
    >> Now maybe the
    >> CD will be replaced by an even more convenient physical medium, or CD
    >> music prices will fall due to competition from download but the need
    >> for the purchaser to have a tangible container for his entertainment
    >> will still be there.
    >
    > I disagree John. People will get used to it. I know it's not gaming
    > software but to give a personal example of how attitudes change I've
    > bought McAfee online for years. At first it *was* wierd not having a
    > CD and I just had to order a backup CD (at additional cost). Now - I
    > really like the convenience of it. I dropped a new 160GB disk in the
    > PC yesterday and put a fresh install of XP Pro on there. Then I went
    > to the McAfee site, signed into my account and downloaded my AV and
    > firewall - nice and easy. Then I did the same with Mailwasher Pro
    > and, of course, HL2. Much easier than going through all the disks I
    > have on the shelves. I now have a lot of software with no physical
    > medium - for me it has become normal - I buy a lot of software online
    > now.
    >> Also, what will replace the marketing impact of a
    >> pretty wrapper for the casual purchaser ?
    >
    > Good question - be interesting to see how sales are affected when
    > they lose the casual/browser buyer who sees the game in a shop and
    > buys on impulse. They must be pretty confident though.
    >
    >> How do you wrap up a
    >> downloaded game and put it under the Christmas tree...
    >
    > Bought members of my family d-loaded software a number of times now.
    > Last one was a copy of Mailwasher Pro last month for a birthday gift.
    > No-one has complained yet
    >
    >> oh, by the way
    >> if you wish to play this game you will need to log-on, open a Steam
    >> account, hope the authentication server is up when everybody else is
    >> also trying to enjoy their downloaded gift and futz around for half a
    >> day downloading irrelevant updates ............
    >
    > Installed my retail HL2 and after 15mins of d-loading files to unlock
    > it I was playing. This was the day of release back in November. Never
    > had a problem since.

    While "Internet2" isn't exactly in the sights yet for the general
    consumer (which can outrun my system), when it IS available to the
    consumer, look for huge differences in 'web pages'. A game like HL2 you
    could stream live. So, advertisment, online shops will have a whole new
    fully 3D appearance I think. The 'casual shopper' of games and
    software in general simply has more coverage in the venue. Shops will
    register your purchases online as you make them, same as at home
    visiting the online shops.
    And since both advertising industry and consumers are railing with such
    a hue and cry over privacy/NO privacy; I think we can expect to see
    dedicated advertisment channels with none actually ON web pages and NONE
    allowed at all via email. People (even me) will still want to shop, so
    we will *have* to go to the ad channels. And I say that would be fine,
    as long as it doesn't follow me 'home' :)
    Since last summer I've known for sure that we can watch a film at the
    cinema 'live' as it's streamed over the internet2. Some of the
    auditoriums have 35mm film projectors as you'd expect, and some have LCD
    projectors. So this isn't so far away.

    I think it's a laughable irony that the US lags seriously behind
    practically every other nation in consumers with broadband connectivity
    even now :) Or for that matter, connectivity period!
    In this area, "Back to the Future" was a pretty good predictive example
    of what this might look like.
    Now we need some of that non-fossil fueled energy they predicted! And
    cars that fly! :)

    In the meantime, I seriously doubt that Valve is going to suffer greatly
    at the momentary loss of the 'casual shopper'. I think Valve will
    still put some kind of physical product on the shelves in shops, but
    even if they don't, I don't look for them to fold at all. Steam can and
    will be improved. It will be made even more convenient to use and the
    *only* thing I've seen Steam looking at on my system is Steams own
    stuff.
    The only thing I can see "wrong" with Steam at the moment is that
    absolutely everything you can purchase and use via Steam isn't able to
    be used absolutely OFFLINE. Or, even with Steam running, to simply
    choose and keep Offline. This *should* always be the consumers choice,
    even to the end of whether or not to get updates for any or all items.
    McG.
  17. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:F63de.50553$hu5.41156@tornado.texas.rr.com...
    > And since both advertising industry and consumers are railing with such a
    > hue and cry over privacy/NO privacy; I think we can expect to see
    > dedicated advertisment channels with none actually ON web pages and NONE
    > allowed at all via email. People (even me) will still want to shop, so we
    > will *have* to go to the ad channels. And I say that would be fine, as
    > long as it doesn't follow me 'home' :)

    Advertising is hardly the biggest privacy concern. Having to give out
    personal info such as credit card numbers and home addresses just to buy a
    game is a bigger one. Every merchant database that info is stored in is
    another additional data theft risk, why should I incur that unnecessary risk
    when a game is something I can just buy in a retail store with cash?
  18. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    > "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:F63de.50553$hu5.41156@tornado.texas.rr.com...
    >> And since both advertising industry and consumers are railing with such a
    >> hue and cry over privacy/NO privacy; I think we can expect to see
    >> dedicated advertisment channels with none actually ON web pages and NONE
    >> allowed at all via email. People (even me) will still want to shop, so
    >> we will *have* to go to the ad channels. And I say that would be fine,
    >> as long as it doesn't follow me 'home' :)
    >
    > Advertising is hardly the biggest privacy concern. Having to give out
    > personal info such as credit card numbers and home addresses just to buy a
    > game is a bigger one. Every merchant database that info is stored in is
    > another additional data theft risk, why should I incur that unnecessary
    > risk when a game is something I can just buy in a retail store with cash?
    >
    >
    You may be unique, or you may be like myself...no credit card. But the vast
    majority of people buying goods in stores do so with "plastic". So online
    data theft may be a worry, but I would guess that data theft from using
    credit cards in shops must be just as much a risk, if not more.
  19. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "Shawk" <shawk@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote in message
    news:1114943313.40582.0@iris.uk.clara.net...
    >
    > "John Lewis" wrote
    >
    >> Now maybe the
    >> CD will be replaced by an even more convenient physical medium, or CD
    >> music prices will fall due to competition from download but the need
    >> for the purchaser to have a tangible container for his entertainment
    >> will still be there.
    >
    > I disagree John. People will get used to it. I know it's not gaming
    > software but to give a personal example of how attitudes change I've
    > bought McAfee online for years. At first it *was* wierd not having a CD
    > and I just had to order a backup CD (at additional cost). Now - I really
    > like the convenience of it. I dropped a new 160GB disk in the PC
    > yesterday and put a fresh install of XP Pro on there. Then I went to the
    > McAfee site, signed into my account and downloaded my AV and firewall -
    > nice and easy. Then I did the same with Mailwasher Pro and, of course,
    > HL2. Much easier than going through all the disks I have on the shelves.

    That's the worst example you could have cited. Security software is the one
    thing you want to have installed and configured *before* you hook up a PC to
    the internet for the first time. I always make sure my personal firewall and
    all OS patches are installed from CD's before I ever plug in the physical
    cables.
  20. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    In message <hOudnUB34sxXoenfRVn-gw@comcast.com>, Alan Bernardo
    <frank@deford.com> writes
    >
    >"steamKILLER" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:1114862447.225723.252850@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    >> x-no-archive: yes
    >>
    >> the end of the steam infestation in the retail channel
    >> is fantastic news for pc games!
    >>
    >> spyware abusive against consumer rights technologies like
    >> steam have no place in the healthy retail pc game market
    >>
    >> vivendi listen to pc gamers and made the right decision
    >> leave tyrant monopolistic greedy dictator valve alone
    >> let valve die all alone and rotten in hell
    >>
    >> long live pc games!
    >> long live vivendi!
    >> down to steam!
    >> down to valve!
    >>
    >> http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=8010
    >>
    >> --
    >> post made in a steam-free computer
    >> i said "NO" to valve and steam
    >>
    >
    >Did you ever think, ever, that there are more important things to consider?
    >
    He doesn't think, ever. I'm not sure if he even realises that Valve WON
    this lawsuit.
    --
    John Secker
  21. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "SpammersDie" <xx@xx.xx> once tried to test me with:

    >> like the convenience of it. I dropped a new 160GB disk in the PC
    >> yesterday and put a fresh install of XP Pro on there. Then I went to
    >> the McAfee site, signed into my account and downloaded my AV and
    >> firewall - nice and easy. Then I did the same with Mailwasher Pro
    >> and, of course, HL2. Much easier than going through all the disks I
    >> have on the shelves.
    >
    > That's the worst example you could have cited. Security software is
    > the one thing you want to have installed and configured *before* you
    > hook up a PC to the internet for the first time. I always make sure my
    > personal firewall and all OS patches are installed from CD's before I
    > ever plug in the physical cables.
    >

    Agreed. It's scary but an XP SP1 system can get owned in under a minute.
    SP2 *might* not be if you let it run the built-in firewall app until you
    can install something better. Having a bootable CD with all your up-to-date
    security software ready to install is pretty damn important.

    --

    Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

    Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
  22. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "SpammersDie" <xx@xx.xx> wrote in message
    news:M75de.168659$cg1.119652@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    >
    > "Shawk" <shawk@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote in message
    > news:1114943313.40582.0@iris.uk.clara.net...
    >>
    >> "John Lewis" wrote
    >>
    >>> Now maybe the
    >>> CD will be replaced by an even more convenient physical medium, or CD
    >>> music prices will fall due to competition from download but the need
    >>> for the purchaser to have a tangible container for his entertainment
    >>> will still be there.
    >>
    >> I disagree John. People will get used to it. I know it's not gaming
    >> software but to give a personal example of how attitudes change I've
    >> bought McAfee online for years. At first it *was* wierd not having a CD
    >> and I just had to order a backup CD (at additional cost). Now - I really
    >> like the convenience of it. I dropped a new 160GB disk in the PC
    >> yesterday and put a fresh install of XP Pro on there. Then I went to the
    >> McAfee site, signed into my account and downloaded my AV and firewall -
    >> nice and easy. Then I did the same with Mailwasher Pro and, of course,
    >> HL2. Much easier than going through all the disks I have on the shelves.
    >
    > That's the worst example you could have cited. Security software is the
    > one thing you want to have installed and configured *before* you hook up a
    > PC to the internet for the first time. I always make sure my personal
    > firewall and all OS patches are installed from CD's before I ever plug in
    > the physical cables.
    >
    >

    Probably because it wasn't the point of the post I didn't make it clear -
    I'm connecting from behind a NAT firewall in the router. I also switch on
    XP's firewall by habit every time I install a copy of XP (up until SP2 the
    firewall was always off by default - never understood that). This is more
    than sufficient until I d-load my preferred methods. I would not recommend
    anyone connect to the net unprotected.
  23. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "SpammersDie" <xx@xx.xx> wrote in message
    news:R35de.168650$cg1.5271@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net
    > "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:F63de.50553$hu5.41156@tornado.texas.rr.com...
    >> And since both advertising industry and consumers are railing with
    >> such a hue and cry over privacy/NO privacy; I think we can expect
    >> to see dedicated advertisment channels with none actually ON web
    >> pages and NONE allowed at all via email. People (even me) will
    >> still want to shop, so we will *have* to go to the ad channels. And
    >> I say that would be fine, as long as it doesn't follow me 'home' :)
    >
    > Advertising is hardly the biggest privacy concern. Having to give out
    > personal info such as credit card numbers and home addresses just to
    > buy a game is a bigger one. Every merchant database that info is
    > stored in is another additional data theft risk, why should I incur
    > that unnecessary risk when a game is something I can just buy in a
    > retail store with cash?

    It's a good point.
    McG.
  24. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    steamKILLER wrote:
    > x-no-archive: yes
    >
    > the end of the steam infestation in the retail channel
    > is fantastic news for pc games!
    >
    > spyware abusive against consumer rights technologies like
    > steam have no place in the healthy retail pc game market
    >
    > vivendi listen to pc gamers and made the right decision
    > leave tyrant monopolistic greedy dictator valve alone
    > let valve die all alone and rotten in hell
    >
    > long live pc games!
    > long live vivendi!
    > down to steam!
    > down to valve!
    >
    > http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=8010
    >
    > --
    > post made in a steam-free computer
    > i said "NO" to valve and steam
    >

    I have been away from this board for about 2 months now, and now I come
    back and you're *STILL* here (and not surprising with a different name).
    My God! Haven't you got anything better to do with your life?
  25. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    On Sun, 01 May 2005 18:11:51 +0930, GFree <nickt4001@yahoo.com.au>
    wrote:

    >I have been away from this board for about 2 months now, and now I come
    >back and you're *STILL* here (and not surprising with a different name).
    >My God! Haven't you got anything better to do with your life?

    He disappeared for about 3 weeks from April the 1st which was nice as
    we could actually start talking about games again. Now he is back it
    has all gone pear shaped again :-(
    --
    Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
    Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
    please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
    Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
  26. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic.]
    On 2005-05-01, GFree <nickt4001@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

    > I have been away from this board for about 2 months now, and now I come
    > back and you're *STILL* here (and not surprising with a different name).
    > My God! Haven't you got anything better to do with your life?

    Why do you even respond to him? You think you're doing anyone a
    favor? You think your comment is insightful? The man is obviously
    quite insane. Leave him alone so he goes away.
  27. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    ToolPackinMama <laura@lauragoodwin.org> once tried to test me with:

    > Knight37 wrote:
    >
    >> Surely you're not falling for SayNo's stupid "the box is the most
    >> important thing" bullshit, are you?
    >>
    >
    > Sorry, but the box is no bullshit. People need things like that to
    > orient themselves.

    You think people need boxes to make their orientation non-ambiguous, eh? ;)

    --

    Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

    Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
  28. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    In message <%V8de.35762$h6.27368@tornado.texas.rr.com>, McGrandpa
    <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> writes
    >"SpammersDie" <xx@xx.xx> wrote in message
    >news:R35de.168650$cg1.5271@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net
    >> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
    >> news:F63de.50553$hu5.41156@tornado.texas.rr.com...
    >>> And since both advertising industry and consumers are railing with
    >>> such a hue and cry over privacy/NO privacy; I think we can expect
    >>> to see dedicated advertisment channels with none actually ON web
    >>> pages and NONE allowed at all via email. People (even me) will
    >>> still want to shop, so we will *have* to go to the ad channels. And
    >>> I say that would be fine, as long as it doesn't follow me 'home' :)
    >>
    >> Advertising is hardly the biggest privacy concern. Having to give out
    >> personal info such as credit card numbers and home addresses just to
    >> buy a game is a bigger one. Every merchant database that info is
    >> stored in is another additional data theft risk, why should I incur
    >> that unnecessary risk when a game is something I can just buy in a
    >> retail store with cash?
    >
    >It's a good point.
    >McG.
    >
    Only if you also make a point of buying everything possible with cash
    rather than credit cards in bricks&mortar stores. Your information goes
    into the merchant database when you make a face to face purchase too. I
    make dozens of credit card purchases every month, so I reckon a couple
    of extra databases is not going to make any significant difference.
    --
    John Secker
  29. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "John Secker" <john@secker.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:lwXvTzFLETdCFwtA@secker.demon.co.uk...
    > In message <%V8de.35762$h6.27368@tornado.texas.rr.com>, McGrandpa
    > <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> writes
    >>"SpammersDie" <xx@xx.xx> wrote in message
    >>news:R35de.168650$cg1.5271@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net
    >>> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:F63de.50553$hu5.41156@tornado.texas.rr.com...
    >>>> And since both advertising industry and consumers are railing with
    >>>> such a hue and cry over privacy/NO privacy; I think we can expect
    >>>> to see dedicated advertisment channels with none actually ON web
    >>>> pages and NONE allowed at all via email. People (even me) will
    >>>> still want to shop, so we will *have* to go to the ad channels. And
    >>>> I say that would be fine, as long as it doesn't follow me 'home' :)
    >>>
    >>> Advertising is hardly the biggest privacy concern. Having to give out
    >>> personal info such as credit card numbers and home addresses just to
    >>> buy a game is a bigger one. Every merchant database that info is
    >>> stored in is another additional data theft risk, why should I incur
    >>> that unnecessary risk when a game is something I can just buy in a
    >>> retail store with cash?
    >>
    >>It's a good point.
    >>McG.
    >>
    > Only if you also make a point of buying everything possible with cash
    > rather than credit cards in bricks&mortar stores.

    What makes you think I don't?
  30. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    In message <83dde.169994$cg1.131975@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
    SpammersDie <xx@xx.xx> writes
    >
    >"John Secker" <john@secker.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
    >news:lwXvTzFLETdCFwtA@secker.demon.co.uk...
    >> In message <%V8de.35762$h6.27368@tornado.texas.rr.com>, McGrandpa
    >> <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> writes
    >>>"SpammersDie" <xx@xx.xx> wrote in message
    >>>news:R35de.168650$cg1.5271@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net
    >>>> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
    >>>> news:F63de.50553$hu5.41156@tornado.texas.rr.com...
    >>>>> And since both advertising industry and consumers are railing with
    >>>>> such a hue and cry over privacy/NO privacy; I think we can expect
    >>>>> to see dedicated advertisment channels with none actually ON web
    >>>>> pages and NONE allowed at all via email. People (even me) will
    >>>>> still want to shop, so we will *have* to go to the ad channels. And
    >>>>> I say that would be fine, as long as it doesn't follow me 'home' :)
    >>>>
    >>>> Advertising is hardly the biggest privacy concern. Having to give out
    >>>> personal info such as credit card numbers and home addresses just to
    >>>> buy a game is a bigger one. Every merchant database that info is
    >>>> stored in is another additional data theft risk, why should I incur
    >>>> that unnecessary risk when a game is something I can just buy in a
    >>>> retail store with cash?
    >>>
    >>>It's a good point.
    >>>McG.
    >>>
    >> Only if you also make a point of buying everything possible with cash
    >> rather than credit cards in bricks&mortar stores.
    >
    >What makes you think I don't?
    >
    What makes you think I think you don't?
    --
    John Secker
  31. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "John Secker" <john@secker.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:QGLCewI4hWdCFwYO@secker.demon.co.uk...
    > In message <83dde.169994$cg1.131975@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
    > SpammersDie <xx@xx.xx> writes
    >>
    >>"John Secker" <john@secker.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
    >>news:lwXvTzFLETdCFwtA@secker.demon.co.uk...
    >>> In message <%V8de.35762$h6.27368@tornado.texas.rr.com>, McGrandpa
    >>> <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> writes
    >>>>"SpammersDie" <xx@xx.xx> wrote in message
    >>>>news:R35de.168650$cg1.5271@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net
    >>>>> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:F63de.50553$hu5.41156@tornado.texas.rr.com...
    >>>>>> And since both advertising industry and consumers are railing with
    >>>>>> such a hue and cry over privacy/NO privacy; I think we can expect
    >>>>>> to see dedicated advertisment channels with none actually ON web
    >>>>>> pages and NONE allowed at all via email. People (even me) will
    >>>>>> still want to shop, so we will *have* to go to the ad channels. And
    >>>>>> I say that would be fine, as long as it doesn't follow me 'home' :)
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Advertising is hardly the biggest privacy concern. Having to give out
    >>>>> personal info such as credit card numbers and home addresses just to
    >>>>> buy a game is a bigger one. Every merchant database that info is
    >>>>> stored in is another additional data theft risk, why should I incur
    >>>>> that unnecessary risk when a game is something I can just buy in a
    >>>>> retail store with cash?
    >>>>
    >>>>It's a good point.
    >>>>McG.
    >>>>
    >>> Only if you also make a point of buying everything possible with cash
    >>> rather than credit cards in bricks&mortar stores.
    >>
    >>What makes you think I don't?
    >>
    > What makes you think I think you don't?

    Well I don't know what makes you think I think you think I don't but I think
    I do know what makes me think you don't know about "What makes you think" as
    a rhetorical phrasing.
  32. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    In message <B9ede.170153$cg1.7273@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
    SpammersDie <xx@xx.xx> writes
    >
    >"John Secker" <john@secker.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
    >news:QGLCewI4hWdCFwYO@secker.demon.co.uk...
    >> In message <83dde.169994$cg1.131975@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
    >> SpammersDie <xx@xx.xx> writes
    >>>
    >>>"John Secker" <john@secker.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
    >>>news:lwXvTzFLETdCFwtA@secker.demon.co.uk...
    >>>> In message <%V8de.35762$h6.27368@tornado.texas.rr.com>, McGrandpa
    >>>> <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> writes
    >>>>>"SpammersDie" <xx@xx.xx> wrote in message
    >>>>>news:R35de.168650$cg1.5271@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net
    >>>>>> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
    >>>>>> news:F63de.50553$hu5.41156@tornado.texas.rr.com...
    >>>>>>> And since both advertising industry and consumers are railing with
    >>>>>>> such a hue and cry over privacy/NO privacy; I think we can expect
    >>>>>>> to see dedicated advertisment channels with none actually ON web
    >>>>>>> pages and NONE allowed at all via email. People (even me) will
    >>>>>>> still want to shop, so we will *have* to go to the ad channels. And
    >>>>>>> I say that would be fine, as long as it doesn't follow me 'home' :)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Advertising is hardly the biggest privacy concern. Having to give out
    >>>>>> personal info such as credit card numbers and home addresses just to
    >>>>>> buy a game is a bigger one. Every merchant database that info is
    >>>>>> stored in is another additional data theft risk, why should I incur
    >>>>>> that unnecessary risk when a game is something I can just buy in a
    >>>>>> retail store with cash?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>It's a good point.
    >>>>>McG.
    >>>>>
    >>>> Only if you also make a point of buying everything possible with cash
    >>>> rather than credit cards in bricks&mortar stores.
    >>>
    >>>What makes you think I don't?
    >>>
    >> What makes you think I think you don't?
    >
    >Well I don't know what makes you think I think you think I don't but I think
    >I do know what makes me think you don't know about "What makes you think" as
    >a rhetorical phrasing.
    >
    >
    That's what you think.
    --
    John Secker
  33. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    Brian Siano wrote:

    > So... now that the only way to buy the game is through Steam, it's a
    > victory?

    Nope Valve is arranging for another distributor

    >From PlanetHalfLife
    <quote>
    Update: With the obvious question on everyone's mind, "What happens to
    the retail products after August?", I asked Doug Lombardi what the
    current plans are. His response: "We are making arrangements to
    continue retail distribution of our products post August 31. Should
    have more details to share soon."
    </quote>

    HTH
  34. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    steamKILLER wrote:

    > x-no-archive: yes
    >
    > the end of the steam infestation in the retail channel
    > is fantastic news for pc games!
    >
    > spyware abusive against consumer rights technologies like
    > steam have no place in the healthy retail pc game market
    >
    > vivendi listen to pc gamers and made the right decision
    > leave tyrant monopolistic greedy dictator valve alone
    > let valve die all alone and rotten in hell

    So... now that the only way to buy the game is through Steam, it's a
    victory?
  35. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "steamKILLER" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> skrev i meddelelsen
    news:1114862447.225723.252850@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:


    *PLONK*


    --
    Arcana Dragon -==(UDIC)==-
    d++e++N++T+++Om-KAWML!34567'!S'!8!9!u+uC+uF+++uG-u
    LB®----uAnC+nH++nP+nI----nPT-nS+++nT----o---oE---xz
    http://www.phyton.dk/games.htm
  36. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "steamKILLER" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1114862447.225723.252850@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    > x-no-archive: yes
    >
    > the end of the steam infestation in the retail channel
    > is fantastic news for pc games!
    >
    > spyware abusive against consumer rights technologies like
    > steam have no place in the healthy retail pc game market
    >
    > vivendi listen to pc gamers and made the right decision
    > leave tyrant monopolistic greedy dictator valve alone
    > let valve die all alone and rotten in hell
    >
    > long live pc games!
    > long live vivendi!
    > down to steam!
    > down to valve!
    >
    > http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=8010
    >


    I am deeply opposed to Steam and other such "delivery" schemes, but whether
    or not this is a victory depends on how well Valve (and other companies) can
    do by selling direct rather than have a presence on the retail shelves of
    stores. I do hope Valve falls into obscurity sooner or later as a result of
    this development (as to set an example for other would-be followers who
    choose to go down the same path), but time will tell.
  37. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:F63de.50553$hu5.41156@tornado.texas.rr.com...

    > While "Internet2" isn't exactly in the sights yet for the general consumer
    > (which can outrun my system), when it IS available to the consumer, look
    > for huge differences in 'web pages'. A game like HL2 you could stream
    > live. So, advertisment, online shops will have a whole new

    Wasn't the whole point of Internet 2 to provide a medium free of consumerism
    and all the slow-downs associated with it to the academic and research
    communities so that they had the resources they needed at their finger tips?
    So although you could, using Internet 2, stream a game like HL2 live, that
    sort of technology would be reserved for real-time walkthroughs of
    archaeological ruins so that researchers around the continent could all look
    at the same thing as their colleague without leaving their living room?
  38. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "Paul Fedorenko" <pfedorenko@look.ca> wrote in message
    news:aSBde.4714$VL3.246511@news20.bellglobal.com
    > "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:F63de.50553$hu5.41156@tornado.texas.rr.com...
    >
    >> While "Internet2" isn't exactly in the sights yet for the general
    >> consumer (which can outrun my system), when it IS available to the
    >> consumer, look for huge differences in 'web pages'. A game like HL2
    >> you could stream live. So, advertisment, online shops will have a
    >> whole new
    >
    > Wasn't the whole point of Internet 2 to provide a medium free of
    > consumerism and all the slow-downs associated with it to the academic
    > and research communities so that they had the resources they needed
    > at their finger tips? So although you could, using Internet 2, stream
    > a game like HL2 live, that sort of technology would be reserved for
    > real-time walkthroughs of archaeological ruins so that researchers
    > around the continent could all look at the same thing as their
    > colleague without leaving their living room?

    Well, that probably explains why consumers don't have IN2 :)
    McG.
  39. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    McGrandpa wrote:

    > "Paul Fedorenko" <pfedorenko@look.ca> wrote in message
    > news:aSBde.4714$VL3.246511@news20.bellglobal.com
    >
    >>"McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
    >>news:F63de.50553$hu5.41156@tornado.texas.rr.com...
    >>
    >>
    >>>While "Internet2" isn't exactly in the sights yet for the general
    >>>consumer (which can outrun my system), when it IS available to the
    >>>consumer, look for huge differences in 'web pages'. A game like HL2
    >>>you could stream live. So, advertisment, online shops will have a
    >>>whole new
    >>
    >>Wasn't the whole point of Internet 2 to provide a medium free of
    >>consumerism and all the slow-downs associated with it to the academic
    >>and research communities so that they had the resources they needed
    >>at their finger tips? So although you could, using Internet 2, stream
    >>a game like HL2 live, that sort of technology would be reserved for
    >>real-time walkthroughs of archaeological ruins so that researchers
    >>around the continent could all look at the same thing as their
    >>colleague without leaving their living room?
    >
    >
    > Well, that probably explains why consumers don't have IN2 :)
    > McG.

    At some point in time we'll all have Internet2, but that is some ways
    away. With all the dark fiber floating around it will be some time
    before it pays for itself (or is even used for that matter)....So don't
    expect to see Internet2 as a consumer product any time soon.
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