ide/atapi cables

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

in hooking up to hard drives and atapi devices, does it make any difference
on what type of cable is used?

the ide hard drive I have is ata-100. would a ata-133 cable work with that
hd & other atapi devices?


noticed the reccomendations on 40/80 ide cables.

btw, I'm looking into getting those round cables to replace the flata
ribbon cables.

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously dilbert firestorm <scanb-nospam@nospam-att-nospam.net> wrote:
[...]
> btw, I'm looking into getting those round cables to replace the flata
> ribbon cables.

My experiences: 45cm - fine
60cm - disks: fine, but my CD-Writer wrote wrong bits
> 60cm - so many errors on the bus that Linux kicked the
disk from its tables within minutes.

90cm cables can be cut down to make one-connector 60cm cables that
work in my experience.

Arno

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

dilbert firestorm <scanb-nospam@nospam-att-nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4IzVd.315849$w62.305506@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

> in hooking up to hard drives and atapi devices, does it make any difference on
> what type of cable is used?

Yes, you need to use the 80 wire cables
for the best speed with modern hard drives.

> the ide hard drive I have is ata-100. would a ata-133 cable work with that
> hd & other atapi devices?

Yep.

> noticed the reccomendations on 40/80 ide cables.

> btw, I'm looking into getting those round cables to replace the flata ribbon
> cables.

Bad idea in my opinion, they flout the ATA standard.

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Rod Speed wrote:
> dilbert firestorm <scanb-nospam@nospam-att-nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:4IzVd.315849$w62.305506@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>
>>in hooking up to hard drives and atapi devices, does it make any difference on
>>what type of cable is used?
>
>
> Yes, you need to use the 80 wire cables
> for the best speed with modern hard drives.
>
>
>>the ide hard drive I have is ata-100. would a ata-133 cable work with that
>>hd & other atapi devices?
>
>
> Yep.
>
>
>>noticed the reccomendations on 40/80 ide cables.
>
>
>>btw, I'm looking into getting those round cables to replace the flata ribbon
>>cables.
>
>
> Bad idea in my opinion, they flout the ATA standard.
>
>

in what way? I know the round cables improve airflow inside the case........

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"dilbert firestorm" <scanb-nospam@nospam-att-nospam.net> wrote in message
news:BPUVd.99554$Th1.47712@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> dilbert firestorm <scanb-nospam@nospam-att-nospam.net> wrote in message
>> news:4IzVd.315849$w62.305506@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>
>>
>>>in hooking up to hard drives and atapi devices, does it make any difference
>>>on what type of cable is used?
>>
>>
>> Yes, you need to use the 80 wire cables
>> for the best speed with modern hard drives.
>>
>>
>>>the ide hard drive I have is ata-100. would a ata-133 cable work with that
>>>hd & other atapi devices?
>>
>>
>> Yep.
>>
>>
>>>noticed the reccomendations on 40/80 ide cables.
>>
>>
>>>btw, I'm looking into getting those round cables to replace the flata ribbon
>>>cables.
>>
>>
>> Bad idea in my opinion, they flout the ATA standard.
>
> in what way?

Basically the standard requires every data line to have a ground line
between them with the 80 wire cables. When its round, you dont have that.

> I know the round cables improve airflow inside the case........

Sure, but flout the standard on the data cable.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Rod Speed" wrote:
> Basically the standard requires every data line to hav
> a ground line between them with the 80 wire cables.
> When its round, you dont have that.


That is true. The "round" cables have a ground wire
twisted together with each of the 40 data lines. Since
the wire pairs inside a "round" cable can shift inside
the outer sheath, it can't be known, and therefore can't
be specified, what the degree of isolation between data
lines is. The isolation may be greater than with ribbon
cables, or it may be less, and it can vary from line to
line, and it can vary between cables. That said, I haven't
had any *descernible* problems with my "round" cables
in the 20 months that I've used them. Since I have 3
hard drives, an optical drive, a Zip drive, and a floppy
drive in the PC case, floppy cables make the use of
all those devices possible while still maintaining good
air flow. (Yes, there are "round" cables made for floppy
drives as well as for IDE drives.)

*TimDaniels*

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:38qks1F5frj8fU1@individual.net
> "dilbert firestorm" <scanb-nospam@nospam-att-nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:BPUVd.99554$Th1.47712@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > Rod Speed wrote:
> > > dilbert firestorm <scanb-nospam@nospam-att-nospam.net> wrote in message
> > > news:4IzVd.315849$w62.305506@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > >
> > > > in hooking up to hard drives and atapi devices, does it make any difference
> > > > on what type of cable is used?
> > >
> > > Yes, you need to use the 80 wire cables
> > > for the best speed with modern hard drives.
> > >
> > > > the ide hard drive I have is ata-100. would a ata-133 cable work with that
> > > > hd & other atapi devices?
> > >
> > > Yep.
> > >
> > > > noticed the reccomendations on 40/80 ide cables.
> > >
> > > > btw, I'm looking into getting those round cables to replace the flata ribbon
> > > > cables.
> > >
> > > Bad idea in my opinion, they flout the ATA standard.
> >
> > in what way?
>
> Basically the standard requires every data line to have a ground line
> between them

So does SCSI.

> with the 80 wire cables.
> When its round, you dont have that.

Nonsense.
Round SCSI cables exist for decades and work for upto 25 meters.
And ata can't manage it for a wimpy .5 meter?

>
> > I know the round cables improve airflow inside the case........
>
> Sure, but flout the standard on the data cable.

Bull.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Timothy Daniels <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in
message news:hcWdnZJSFuox6LXfRVn-2Q@comcast.com...
> Rod Speed wrote

>> Basically the standard requires every data line to have
>> a ground line between them with the 80 wire cables.
>> When its round, you dont have that.

> That is true. The "round" cables have a ground wire twisted together with
> each of the 40 data lines.

Some do, some dont.

> Since the wire pairs inside a "round" cable can shift inside
> the outer sheath, it can't be known, and therefore can't be specified, what
> the degree of isolation between data lines is.

And the electrical characteristics of a twisted pair are quite
different to a parallel pair, and a twisted pair is usually driven
differentially, unlike the pair in the standard cable.

> The isolation may be greater than with ribbon cables, or it may be less,

No reason why it should be greater.

> and it can vary from line to line, and it can vary between cables. That said,
> I haven't had any *descernible* problems with my "round" cables
> in the 20 months that I've used them.

Plenty claim that with other flouting of the standard too.

One obvious question is whether they would even notice
the electrical downsides of flouting the standard.

> Since I have 3 hard drives, an optical drive, a Zip drive, and a floppy drive
> in the PC case, floppy cables make the use of all those devices possible while
> still maintaining good air flow.

The obsession with airflow is silly and if you dont have
adequate airflow with standard cables, the fix should be obvious.

> (Yes, there are "round" cables made for floppy drives as well as for IDE
> drives.)

Yep, plenty of complete abortions around.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:38s20pF5t2j6uU1@individual.net
> Timothy Daniels <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message news:hcWdnZJSFuox6LXfRVn-2Q@comcast.com...
> > Rod Speed wrote
>
> > > Basically the standard requires every data line to have
> > > a ground line between them with the 80 wire cables.
> > > When its round, you dont have that.
>
> > That is true. The "round" cables have a ground wire twisted together with
> > each of the 40 data lines.

And they all twist at the same 'speed' so there is always a ground wire next to
a data wire.

>
> Some do, some dont.
>
> > Since the wire pairs inside a "round" cable can shift inside
> > the outer sheath, it can't be known, and therefore can't be specified, what
> > the degree of isolation between data lines is.
>
> And the electrical characteristics of a twisted pair are quite different to a
> parallel pair,

Nonsense.
The SE impedance of twisted cables is in the 80-90 ohms,
which is within the ATA impedance spec of 70-90 ohms.

> and a twisted pair is usually driven
> differentially, unlike the pair in the standard cable.

So what. SE inpedance is SE impedance and that is how they are used.

>
> > The isolation may be greater than with ribbon cables, or it may be less,
>
> No reason why it should be greater.
>
> > and it can vary from line to line, and it can vary between cables.
> > That said, I haven't had any *descernible* problems with my
> > "round" cables in the 20 months that I've used them.
>
> Plenty claim that with other flouting of the standard too.
>
> One obvious question is whether they would even notice
> the electrical downsides of flouting the standard.

What electrical downsides. There are none.

>
> > Since I have 3 hard drives, an optical drive, a Zip drive, and a floppy drive
> > in the PC case, floppy cables make the use of all those devices possible while
> > still maintaining good air flow.
>
> The obsession with airflow is silly and if you dont have
> adequate airflow with standard cables, the fix should be obvious.
>
> > (Yes, there are "round" cables made for floppy drives as well as for IDE
> > drives.)
>
> Yep, plenty of complete abortions around.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Folkert Rienstra <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote
in message news:38t83eF5mjfhgU2@individual.net...
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Timothy Daniels <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>> Basically the standard requires every data line to have
>>>> a ground line between them with the 80 wire cables.
>>>> When its round, you dont have that.

>>> That is true. The "round" cables have a ground wire
>>> twisted together with each of the 40 data lines.

> And they all twist at the same 'speed' so there
> is always a ground wire next to a data wire.

Nothing like an 80 wire ribbon cable electrically.

>> Some do, some dont.

>>> Since the wire pairs inside a "round" cable can shift inside
>>> the outer sheath, it can't be known, and therefore can't be
>>> specified, what the degree of isolation between data lines is.

>> And the electrical characteristics of a twisted
>> pair are quite different to a parallel pair,

> Nonsense.

Fact.

> The SE impedance of twisted cables is in the 80-90 ohms,
> which is within the ATA impedance spec of 70-90 ohms.

There's more than just impedance involved.

>> and a twisted pair is usually driven differentially,
>> unlike the pair in the standard cable.

> So what.

Thats why the ATA standard doesnt allow that, cretin.

> SE inpedance is SE impedance and that is how they are used.

Even you should be able to manage a more viable troll than that pathetic effort.

>>> The isolation may be greater than with ribbon cables, or it may be less,

>> No reason why it should be greater.

>>> and it can vary from line to line, and it can vary between cables.
>>> That said, I haven't had any *descernible* problems with my
>>> "round" cables in the 20 months that I've used them.

>> Plenty claim that with other flouting of the standard too.

>> One obvious question is whether they would even notice
>> the electrical downsides of flouting the standard.

> What electrical downsides. There are none.

How odd that those who wrote the ATA standard dont see it like that.

>>> Since I have 3 hard drives, an optical drive, a Zip drive, and
>>> a floppy drive in the PC case, floppy cables make the use of
>>> all those devices possible while still maintaining good air flow.

>> The obsession with airflow is silly and if you dont have
>> adequate airflow with standard cables, the fix should be obvious.

>>> (Yes, there are "round" cables made for
>>> floppy drives as well as for IDE drives.)

>> Yep, plenty of complete abortions around.