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Forum Subsections

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November 7, 2005 12:02:40 AM

This was brought up in the closed beta, and I'm going to bring it up here too:

IMO we have WAY WAY WAY too many forum subsections.

Point No 1.

For a start, in Hardware we have a Network Interface Card forum (Description = "Discussions about network interface cards, configuring networks, and more.")

Then we have an entire Network section, devoted to WLAN, WAN, LAN etc

There seems to be a massive overlap between them.

^^^ That's just one example of many.

Point No 2.

In the software forum, there are 15! subforums for Windows XP alone. 8 for Win2k. AND Linux is just a subforum in Other software? What?

Point No 3.

Games section is a complete mess.

In the general section there are some odd forum names: "Hints about Empire", "Games for Acorn machines", "Games Diplomacy" etc etc?!

Console Platforms we have consoles missing (Playstation 1, Megadrive / Genesis...) and then console manufactures like Sony...since when is Sony a platform?

The list goes on and on and on.

IMO the forums won't work like this, noone will know where to post

How about (in this order)

CPU's (Anything related to CPUs)
Video Cards (Anything related to Video Cards)
Motherboards / Chipsets (...)
------------------------------------------------------
RAM / Memory (...)
Harddrives / Storage (...)
Optical / Removable Storage (inc USB sticks etc)
------------------------------------------------------
Network (All network questions)
Sound Cards
---------------------------------------------------
Operating Systems (Subtopics - Windows 9x, Windows 2000 / XP, Linux...and other questions can go just in the root sub forum)
Games / Software (Games was a popular forum in the old forum, but it was hard to find)
-----------------------------
Other (Sub forums needed, like CE, ...
----------------------------------------------
The Other (Yes, I think this should be the way forward...)
------------------

Please reply with opinions as this is a matter I feel strongly about.

More about : forum subsections

November 7, 2005 12:14:10 AM

Same for the motherboard section. Why many subsection that nobody would care to read... me first. Put just one general section for motherboard too.
November 7, 2005 12:19:14 AM

lol - Editted! How crazy of me
Related resources
November 7, 2005 12:22:20 AM

First, it was Rugger, now I have to cover your sorry @ss too :wink:
November 7, 2005 12:32:49 AM

But seriously, having everything in the same forum will help to avoid cross posting. And a question about an Abit with nvidia chipset could easily be answered and resolved in a thread about the same problem in Epox motherboard. When it is relative to chipset, then every motherboard brand can be subject to the same problem. So, an answer with" Update your drivers" can fit for one problem with many board.
November 7, 2005 12:37:05 AM

Exactly! That kind of problem will be the case all over the forum if things carry on the way they are.
November 7, 2005 12:42:41 AM

I will post everything in the general discussion anyway. It is where it has the more chance to be seen.. In other board, with the same arrangement, mods are always moving post to appropriate subsection... Don't know if the mods here will do the same.. and if yes, for how long...
November 7, 2005 12:51:42 AM

Layout MK II:

(Main Hardware)

CPU's
Graphic Cards
Motherboards and Chipsets
------
(Secondary Hardware)

RAM / Memory
Sound Cards
Harddrives / Storage
Optical Drives / Removable Storage
Peripherals / Other Hardware
------
(Networking)

Network
------
(Overclocking)

CPU's
Graphic Cards
Motherboards
------
(Software)

Operating Systems:
Subforums = "Windows 9x", "Windows 2000 / XP", "Windows Vista", "Linux", "Other operating systems"
Games
Software / Applications
------
(Other)

The Other


Note: No consumer electronics section, we're a PC hardware forum!
November 7, 2005 1:37:05 AM

All good points, Ned :wink: Le's address and discuss them one by one, to see if we agree.

Quote:

Point No 1.
For a start, in Hardware we have a Network Interface Card forum (Description = "Discussions about network interface cards, configuring networks, and more.")

Then we have an entire Network section, devoted to WLAN, WAN, LAN etc

There seems to be a massive overlap between them.


NIC is a component so it does fit within hardware. Note that hardware is now narrowly defined, and does not include systems (except homebuilt) printers, etc. which moved to CE. At the same time, TG has started a new section (or site) about Network (TomsNetworking.com) so we wanted to have general categories about Networking to go with that section. Imagine those sections needing to be more tightly coupled at some point, so we want to grow the Network section accordingly.

Quote:

Point No 2.
In the software forum, there are 15! subforums for Windows XP alone. 8 for Win2k. AND Linux is just a subforum in Other software? What?

We have not started a full fledged Linux forum(z). The content exists, but something that would be launched upon demand, etc. What you see in Linux is just a small sliver, and it is what you already had.

Quote:

Point No 3.
Games section is a complete mess.


I would need a good gamer to help organize that section. I agree that it could be organized better. Volunteers?

Quote:

IMO the forums won't work like this, noone will know where to post

Then we improve it :wink: But we need to understand where we get the most bang for the buck

Quote:

Please reply with opinions as this is a matter I feel strongly about.


I know you do :wink: and that's good. Shows you care about the new forumz :D 
November 7, 2005 1:45:28 AM

Quote:
Same for the motherboard section. Why many subsection that nobody would care to read... me first. Put just one general section for motherboard too.


Hi, Pat. I appreciate your point. At the same time, I run other forum sites and people do care about specific motherboards. That mostly applies to newbies (not like some of you guys) who don't know the intricacies of chipset, etc. etc. All they know is that they bought xyz motherboard from newegg. They feel very comfortable if they find sections dedicated to their board.

I run HP MediaCenter at home. You might say I run a MediaCenter PC, but to my insecure self, if I find a discussion of "HP" MediaCenter I would be very very happy, since I cannot tell the different between MC aspects and PC aspects of some bug.

In any case, these are my opinions. I am sure others have different thoughts.
November 7, 2005 1:56:42 AM

I really don't think sub section, after subsection is the way for organise the forum.

You're basically trying to get each Toms Guide site its own forum (Tomshardware Guide, TomsNetwork, Twitch Guru etc), and it just won't work like that. It's too fragmented.

There isn't the traffic (and even if there was I don't think it would make a difference) to have forums so specialised. Take Anandtech for example - I'm nmot saying we go to that level of simplicity, but it is a start.

IMO we had too many sections in the old forum, and now we have x10 that amount. Why is there a need for a RPG, FPS, Strategy sub forums when a simple Games forum would work.
Why is there a need for all these motherboard types (yes, you say it is easier for newbs to ask questions), but it makes us (the people giving the answers) MUCH less likely to check the sub, sub forum they posted in.
I know I won't bother.
November 7, 2005 2:07:11 AM

I know from the closed BETA that the search feature won't search the entire forum and the subforum (Hardware, Network, Mobile....) so (taking the Network as the example) a user would need to search both the hardware>Network and Network> ... to find answers.

This will also lead to double posting in perhaps 3 -4 forum sub sub sub sub (or what ever) sections.

As you may be able to tell, I can go on whining about this forever :wink:
November 7, 2005 8:01:19 AM

We don't need any sub sections. The older forum had too many sections, which nobody used.

The new forum has even more sections, and it introduced subsections. I don't think I've ever seen such a messed up sectiom like the gaming one in any forum.
November 7, 2005 8:09:06 AM

Understatement Ned! I’m all for a couple new features, but gees.



What I like about THG.

1. One click and I could see all subjects.

2. If there was a post to one of my interest I could click in and see what was what and decide if I was going to participate.

3. If I had a question I knew where to post it and my only concern was, “is this a stupid question or was it already asked”.

4. I could check in to THG and in two seconds see if there was anything new or of interest and be out in no time at all with out feeling I missed anything. Even had time to glance the Other real quick.




What I don’t like about TG.

1. What happen to the H in THG?

2. Have we been invaded?

3. Looks like any other place now, just more confusing.

4. To much of anything is not good.

5. Why so complex?

6. I thought most of us here used the computer to much and needed to get a life. Now it’s obviously who takes the cake.
November 7, 2005 9:36:07 AM

Quote:
Same for the motherboard section. Why many subsection that nobody would care to read... me first. Put just one general section for motherboard too.



Hi, Pat. I appreciate your point. At the same time, I run other forum sites and people do care about specific motherboards. That mostly applies to newbies (not like some of you guys) who don't know the intricacies of chipset, etc. etc. All they know is that they bought xyz motherboard from newegg. They feel very comfortable if they find sections dedicated to their board.

I run HP MediaCenter at home. You might say I run a MediaCenter PC, but to my insecure self, if I find a discussion of "HP" MediaCenter I would be very very happy, since I cannot tell the different between MC aspects and PC aspects of some bug.

In any case, these are my opinions. I am sure others have different thoughts.

Ok, then if there was an icon, or something that would indicate new post is such subsection, that would help. I have no clue if there is something new posted in the Asus or Abit subsection, without actually go and check.

..
November 7, 2005 9:41:59 AM

I agree with Ned, to many sections, mean that the techies won't troll through them to answer... attention span to short...
Less subsections, means post your problem in the MOTHERBOARD section, and it will be answered...
I mean, what self respecting techie is going to wade through a HP Media Center sub-section!! :roll: :wink: :wink:
November 7, 2005 10:47:25 AM

Ned, SUB-SECTIONS would be OK, if the General MotherBoard section (for example) contained a grouping of all the motherboard sections, So you could post in the General section, or get better coverage so to speak by posting in the specific manufaturer sub-section...
So visiting the General Mobo would list all subsections in that section.
That sounds like a winner to me...
November 7, 2005 12:56:58 PM

The little page icon changes color from white with unread posts.
November 7, 2005 1:08:50 PM

I never said I wanted to get rid off all subsections, just ones that arn't needed and ones that are duplicated else where - i.e Networking
November 7, 2005 2:19:10 PM

Quote:


Ok, then if there was an icon, or something that would indicate new post is such subsection, that would help. I have no clue if there is something new posted in the Asus or Abit subsection, without actually go and check.

..


Pat, great idea, and that is coming :D 
November 7, 2005 2:24:00 PM

Quote:
Ned, SUB-SECTIONS would be OK, if the General MotherBoard section (for example) contained a grouping of all the motherboard sections, So you could post in the General section, or get better coverage so to speak by posting in the specific manufaturer sub-section...
So visiting the General Mobo would list all subsections in that section.
That sounds like a winner to me...


Rich, great idea. We kind'a have that now but could improve it. On top of "General Motherboards", click on "Motherboards & Memory"... it then focus on that category only. Then instead of showing collapsed subforums, we can show them all expanded (since that's all there is on the page) :D  :p  :p  :p 
November 7, 2005 2:27:11 PM

you say the hardware section hasn't really changed? For a start the most popular hardware forum is at the bottom of the page (Video Cards), the Overclocking section for CPUs has a sub *groan* section for AMD chips. but not for intel?

Get this - The top category is labeled "CPU's and Components", surely all hardware is a component and should be in that category? Infact, I suppose I'm meant to post Video Card questions in the Other Components sub forum? as "All other components not covered in the above."
____________________________________________

If you want to have TG run 7 different forums here that's fine, but don't let the sub forums blatently operlap - If we have a Networking forum, I say the hardware section should not have a network subforum.

The Games forum, even though I see you tried to clean it up, is still a joke! If anyone could be bothered posting in the correct section, it would take them at least 5 minutes to find it! - And as other users have stated, there is no why they'd be checking all the subsections.

...could go on and on and on (Why do we even have a CE forum?)
November 7, 2005 2:31:44 PM

Agrees completely with the OP. The Games section (the only section I usually poke my nose into) is in complete disarray. I'm pretty sure things motored along quite nicely in there when it was just called Games.
November 7, 2005 2:56:37 PM

Quote:
Agrees completely with the OP. The Games section (the only section I usually poke my nose into) is in complete disarray. I'm pretty sure things motored along quite nicely in there when it was just called Games.


Ned and Wolfy, would you collaborate and come up with a structure for games section that we can look at? It is quite easy to move things around to make it work for you guys. Need specifics, not generalities.
November 7, 2005 2:58:44 PM

Specifics you say?

Forum name > Games
Subforums > None.

:D  :D  :D 

It's not a joke, we both agree with this structure.
November 7, 2005 3:06:17 PM

Quote:
Specifics you say?

Forum name > Games
Subforums > None.

:D  :D  :D 

It's not a joke, we both agree with this structure.


There are hundreds of forums within games. You need a way to break the games domain down into at least 5-6 major sections. Take a look at what is there, and if not agreed, then let's propose an alternative.

I have never seen a section with 100 forums inside, but there is a first for everything :roll:
November 7, 2005 3:11:02 PM

There isn't any need to break it down, that's how it was in the old forum and it worked fine.
November 7, 2005 3:11:53 PM

If you insited on doing it that way:

PC Gaming
Console Gaming
Handheld Gaming
November 7, 2005 3:21:51 PM

Quote:
If you insited on doing it that way:

PC Gaming
Console Gaming
Handheld Gaming


Ok, that is a start. I think we already have PC and Console. Handheld can be added. Ok, maybe one problem is that we are mixing 'device type' and 'game type' e.g. RPG.

More ideas, keep them coming. We need more cats, since too many forums.
November 7, 2005 3:25:24 PM

If you're posting about a RPG PC Game it goes in PC gaming.
If you're posting about a RPG PS2 Game it goes in Console gaming.
If you're posting about a Strategy PC Game it goes in PC gaming.
If you're posting about a PSP Game it goes in Handheld.


....

3 subforums is all you need.
November 7, 2005 3:28:04 PM

I still think all we need is a single Games section > No subforums
November 7, 2005 3:36:22 PM

Quote:
If you're posting about a RPG PC Game it goes in PC gaming.
If you're posting about a RPG PS2 Game it goes in Console gaming.
If you're posting about a Strategy PC Game it goes in PC gaming.
If you're posting about a PSP Game it goes in Handheld.


....

3 subforums is all you need.


So you are saying org. by device type, not the game type (e.g. RPG)?

Others?
November 7, 2005 3:50:22 PM

Quote:
I still think all we need is a single Games section > No subforums

Go Ned! :D 
November 7, 2005 5:30:05 PM

I'm saying no subforums for games. That above example was an alternative, but it is very much second best to the single forum design a lot of us are agreeing to.
November 7, 2005 5:51:16 PM

I think the thing for games right now is just to have 1 forum. When TG expects an increase in posting because of something one of the sites does (or sees an increase with need), then it can be broken down a little - by device or genre, etc., but right now, considering the volume, 1 forum seems enough.

Mike.
November 7, 2005 5:53:33 PM

Quote:
Layout MK II:

(Main Hardware)

CPU's
Graphic Cards
Motherboards and Chipsets
------
(Secondary Hardware)

RAM / Memory
Sound Cards
Harddrives / Storage
Optical Drives / Removable Storage
Peripherals / Other Hardware
------
(Networking)

Network
------
(Overclocking)

CPU's
Graphic Cards
Motherboards
------
(Software)

Operating Systems:
Subforums = "Windows 9x", "Windows 2000 / XP", "Windows Vista", "Linux", "Other operating systems"
Games
Software / Applications
------
(Other)

The Other


Note: No consumer electronics section, we're a PC hardware forum!


Opinions?
November 7, 2005 6:34:53 PM

Just signing my agreement with your idea.

I'd volunteer some time into fixing it up for a week or two, but I wouldn't want to maintain it. Moderate a section, fix it up, then be done with it.
November 7, 2005 7:41:49 PM

[BLISS]

[/BLISS]

:D 
November 7, 2005 7:58:51 PM

You guys, why can't you give it a chance? A little change never hurt anyone and I think sections like BF2 will be a good thing since a bunch of us play it and now with the usenet posts I'm sure we can get a lot more out of it.
November 7, 2005 8:30:19 PM

Quote:


Ok, then if there was an icon, or something that would indicate new post is such subsection, that would help. I have no clue if there is something new posted in the Asus or Abit subsection, without actually go and check.

..


Pat, great idea, and that is coming :D 

Thanks..
November 8, 2005 1:25:22 AM

I like that list of groups, fits more with what people expect.

I'd like to mention that some topics need triming especially in the 'mobile' section, do you really new palmpilot and palmtops? In mobility networks Rogers AT&T = FIDO , also add Bell and Telus if you want complete coverage.

I would say a wise choice for this granted dead segment of the society, would be a 'hotspot' section to talk about known access points, war chalking/driving, etc.

Also add some more emoticons, and perhaps some forum colour changes, the black on blue on blue on blue at work just doesn't pop enough.

I couldn't seem to find theme fonts/colours, profile options gives board style a sub silver, that's it.

Just some thoughts.
November 8, 2005 8:34:20 AM

I've already been talking to one of the admins about this Dhlucke. I'm not criticising seperate sections for popular games like BF2.

But in fairness 80% of the sections in there are pointless.

Myst has a whole set of subjects devoted to it. Myst for Gods sake. Never mind Quake has it's own seperate place. Some console sections are repeated twice, MMOs have games like Ultima online and Empire, I've never heard of empire and there is no mention of WOW or EVE or any of the other major MMOs. There is also a section on LASERDISCS!!!! This section is filled with what looks like Bot adverts for ebay.


The game section looks like a program went and selected all the major topics from previous posts and ordered it accordingly. It doesn't look to me like someone who plays and knows about Games went over it and adjusted accordingly after this.

If I was let I'd love to get my hands on that section.

I personally believe it should be the way it was, however at most it should be split along the lines of Online/Offline/Console. Within Online you can keep a seperate section for BF2 etc if you like. But at the moment Game is a mess. You can't look at it and think it looks fine in it's current state.


I'd also like to apply for moderator status for the game section. Ahem.
November 8, 2005 11:20:02 AM

All my effort, and you try and lay claim to moderator of Games section :? :wink:

Anyway - Steve what's the word?
November 8, 2005 11:58:33 AM

I thought I'd chance my arm. I would be filled with Nerdly pride to be made a mod of the games section. All my wasted years playing games would have finally paid off and I can go to my mother and tell her to be proud of her son.

And stuff.


WOLFY FOR GAMES MOD!!! You can be a mini mod Ned :) 
November 8, 2005 3:23:59 PM

I don't make mod decisions. Pls contact Fredi... and good luck :wink:
November 8, 2005 3:43:32 PM

...and about the layout?
November 8, 2005 3:45:16 PM

We need to have this
Quote:
Home -> Community -> Forumz- Other Discussions
at the bottom too... I don't like to hit the back button, as it won't show the 5 posts that have been updated since you read the long post, and I don't like scrolling all the way up to the top to click on the link to take me back into the forum I was reading....

8O Nevermind, found it just now... I could have sworn that wasn't there before.... :roll:
November 8, 2005 3:46:41 PM

Quote:
...and about the layout?


Yap, more decision on the that, since Fredi would not have a strong opinion about that particular section.
November 8, 2005 3:47:53 PM

Quote:
We need to have this Home -> Community -> Forumz- Other Discussions
at the bottom too... I don't like to hit the back button, as it won't show the 5 posts that have been updated since you read the long post, and I don't like scrolling all the way up to the top to click on the link to take me back into the forum I was reading....

But that is what we have at the bottom too :?
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