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Hard disk temperature question

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March 19, 2005 12:56:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Thanks to those who helped me with the spyware problem - it has been solved.

I'm curious about HDD temperatures. My two drives (one of them new, both of
them 7,200 rpm creatures) are running temperatures around the early 50
(celsius). I have read online that the ideal working temperatures are
between 35-40. I told a computer vendor this (was asking about a fan) and he
laughed - saying that as long as it stays under 70, the disk will be fine.

Any thoughts on this?

perrin
Anonymous
a b G Storage
March 19, 2005 12:56:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <d1el04$3nn$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>,
perrin <perrin99@singnet.com.sg> wrote:
>Thanks to those who helped me with the spyware problem - it has been solved.
>
>I'm curious about HDD temperatures. My two drives (one of them new, both of
>them 7,200 rpm creatures) are running temperatures around the early 50
>(celsius). I have read online that the ideal working temperatures are
>between 35-40. I told a computer vendor this (was asking about a fan) and he
>laughed - saying that as long as it stays under 70, the disk will be fine.
>
>Any thoughts on this?
>
>perrin
>
>




Get it in writing. Look up the recommended Max temp for your model on
the manufacturer's website.

70C (158F) is much too hot for any disk for which I've looked at the
spec sheets. I keep my disks below about 110F. Lower temps turn into
longer MTBFs.

--

a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
March 19, 2005 12:56:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

>> I told a computer vendor this (was asking about a fan) and he
> >laughed - saying that as long as it stays under 70, the disk will be
fine.
> >
> >Any thoughts on this?
> >
> >perrin
>
> Get it in writing. Look up the recommended Max temp for your model on
> the manufacturer's website.

In writing? His vendor will laugh again.

Yes, there is a chance (small though) that disk will be fine, even after a
couple of months.

But, are we talking about SMART reported temperature or
ambient temperature?

> 70C (158F) is much too hot for any disk for which I've looked at the
> spec sheets. I keep my disks below about 110F. Lower temps turn into
> longer MTBFs.
> a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Yes, running hard drive at lower teperature will decrease its chance to
fail.
By how much? Hard to tell, but there is some exponential formula.
Related resources
Anonymous
a b G Storage
March 19, 2005 12:56:14 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <3a0bjaF645gclU1@individual.net>,
Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>> I told a computer vendor this (was asking about a fan) and he
>> >laughed - saying that as long as it stays under 70, the disk will be
>fine.
>> >
>> >Any thoughts on this?
>> >
>> >perrin
>>
>> Get it in writing. Look up the recommended Max temp for your model on
>> the manufacturer's website.
>
>In writing? His vendor will laugh again.

Who cares about the vendor. The manufacturer has the specs on their
web site.

--

a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
March 19, 2005 6:14:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously perrin <perrin99@singnet.com.sg> wrote:
> Thanks to those who helped me with the spyware problem - it has been solved.

> I'm curious about HDD temperatures. My two drives (one of them new, both of
> them 7,200 rpm creatures) are running temperatures around the early 50
> (celsius). I have read online that the ideal working temperatures are
> between 35-40. I told a computer vendor this (was asking about a fan) and he
> laughed - saying that as long as it stays under 70, the disk will be fine.

> Any thoughts on this?

Maxtor says 50C and no massive increase in failure rates up to
55C. Other vendors say similar things. That tells me that 70C will
have significant impact on reliability and drive life. And what if you
have a hot day and get 10C or amybe even 20C more?

Advice: Keep the drives below 50C under your highest expected load
and taking into account your higheste expected room remperature.

Also take into account that some modern drives record the highest
temperature they see and the vendor may (rightfully IMO) refuse
a warranty replacement for a drive that has been run out of spec.

Arno
Anonymous
a b G Storage
March 19, 2005 8:39:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

perrin <perrin99@singnet.com.sg> wrote in message
news:D 1el04$3nn$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg...

> I'm curious about HDD temperatures. My two drives (one of them new,
> both of them 7,200 rpm creatures) are running temperatures around the
> early 50 (celsius). I have read online that the ideal working temperatures
> are between 35-40. I told a computer vendor this (was asking about a fan)
> and he laughed - saying that as long as it stays under 70, the disk will be
> fine.

> Any thoughts on this?

He's a fool. Keep the temp in that 35-40 range for much better drive life.
March 19, 2005 12:41:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

No need to diss the vendor. I'm coming from the standpoint that cooling
system manufacturers are creating a temperature scarecrow to boost sales.
I.e. the 35-40C range. I have checked the website and my Maxtor can run
between 40-55 safely. Thanks.

perrin

"Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 1fkl8$hfb$1@panix5.panix.com...
: In article <3a0bjaF645gclU1@individual.net>,
: Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
: >>> I told a computer vendor this (was asking about a fan) and he
: >> >laughed - saying that as long as it stays under 70, the disk will be
: >fine.
: >> >
: >> >Any thoughts on this?
: >> >
: >> >perrin
: >>
: >> Get it in writing. Look up the recommended Max temp for your model on
: >> the manufacturer's website.
: >
: >In writing? His vendor will laugh again.
:
: Who cares about the vendor. The manufacturer has the specs on their
: web site.
:
: --
:
: a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
:
: Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
March 19, 2005 12:41:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously perrin <perrin99@singnet.com.sg> wrote:
> No need to diss the vendor. I'm coming from the standpoint that cooling
> system manufacturers are creating a temperature scarecrow to boost sales.
> I.e. the 35-40C range. I have checked the website and my Maxtor can run
> between 40-55 safely. Thanks.

They are correct to specify 35C-40C during normal operation. That
leaves 15C room for hotter days and heavy load on the drives. Not
really a big margin. Plenty if the room is air-conditioned or you
don't have heavy load conditions, but that is hardly the typical
situation PCs are run in.

And heat is the number one HDD killer after mechanical shock.

Arno
Anonymous
a b G Storage
March 21, 2005 3:02:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

perrin wrote:

> No need to diss the vendor. I'm coming from the standpoint that cooling
> system manufacturers are creating a temperature scarecrow to boost sales.
> I.e. the 35-40C range. I have checked the website and my Maxtor can run
> between 40-55 safely. Thanks.

Where do you find this information? I can find 55C ambient on the Maxtor
site but nothing about drive temperature. The Seagate site says that their
drives are good for up to 69C measured at a specific location on the case,
but that's case temperature, not ambient.

Altitude seems to be a factor too--there's a derating for altitude but it's
not clear if that's ambient or case temperature.

> perrin
>
> "Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:D 1fkl8$hfb$1@panix5.panix.com...
> : In article <3a0bjaF645gclU1@individual.net>,
> : Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> : >>> I told a computer vendor this (was asking about a fan) and he
> : >> >laughed - saying that as long as it stays under 70, the disk will be
> : >fine.
> : >> >
> : >> >Any thoughts on this?
> : >> >
> : >> >perrin
> : >>
> : >> Get it in writing. Look up the recommended Max temp for your model
> : >> on the manufacturer's website.
> : >
> : >In writing? His vendor will laugh again.
> :
> : Who cares about the vendor. The manufacturer has the specs on their
> : web site.
> :
> : --
> :
> : a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
> :
> : Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
March 22, 2005 11:01:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

> I'm curious about HDD temperatures. My two drives (one of them new,
> both of them 7,200 rpm creatures) are running temperatures around the
> early 50 (celsius).

How are you measuring the temperature?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
March 23, 2005 6:19:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

perrin <perrin99@singnet.com.sg> wrote:

> No need to diss the vendor. I'm coming from the standpoint that cooling
> system manufacturers are creating a temperature scarecrow to boost sales.

How about the standpoint that computer vendors skimp on cooling in order
to cut costs? To the customer, it appears to be the *drive* that has
failed -- after it's been slowly cooked for a year and the warranty on
the box has run out.
March 25, 2005 12:14:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

HDD Temperature (software). One thing I discovered - the HDDs are cooler
with cover on than without.

"Frank W." <reply_to_newsgroup@please.ccom> wrote in message
news:3abksmF64ulhaU2@individual.net...
:> I'm curious about HDD temperatures. My two drives (one of them new,
: > both of them 7,200 rpm creatures) are running temperatures around the
: > early 50 (celsius).
:
: How are you measuring the temperature?
:
:
March 25, 2005 12:14:51 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Interestingly enough all hard drive manufacturers provide a maximum
operating ambient temperature. That is not the same as disk enclosure
surface temperarure or S.M.A.R.T reported temperature.
Usually they allow disk enclosure temperature to be 5 to 10 degC
higher than a maximum ambient temperature.
If you assume that SMART temperature matches disk enclosure
temperature, you may still be 7-12 degC below a maximum allowed.
Not ideal for the hard drive, but within specs.

"perrin" <perrin99@singnet.com.sg> wrote in message
news:D 1ubqk$tqi$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg...
> HDD Temperature (software). One thing I discovered - the HDDs are cooler
> with cover on than without.
>
> "Frank W." <reply_to_newsgroup@please.ccom> wrote in message
> news:3abksmF64ulhaU2@individual.net...
> :> I'm curious about HDD temperatures. My two drives (one of them new,
> : > both of them 7,200 rpm creatures) are running temperatures around the
> : > early 50 (celsius).
> :
> : How are you measuring the temperature?
> :
> :
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
March 25, 2005 12:14:52 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <3afuj5F6a5r5qU1@individual.net>,
Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>Interestingly enough all hard drive manufacturers provide a

"maximum operating ambient temperature"

IMO this is an phrase if not meaningless as a definition of how hot
something that is GENERATING heat is. Ambient suggests the air temp
and is generally used to describe the air at the intake to a computer
system.

Th phrase is "operating temperature" and I take it to mean the surface
temp at the hottest point on the disk. The more airflow the cooler
the case will be.




.. That is not the same as disk enclosure
>surface temperarure or S.M.A.R.T reported temperature.
>Usually they allow disk enclosure temperature to be 5 to 10 degC
>higher than a maximum ambient temperature.
>If you assume that SMART temperature matches disk enclosure
>temperature, you may still be 7-12 degC below a maximum allowed.
>Not ideal for the hard drive, but within specs.
>
>"perrin" <perrin99@singnet.com.sg> wrote in message
>news:D 1ubqk$tqi$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg...
>> HDD Temperature (software). One thing I discovered - the HDDs are cooler
>> with cover on than without.
>>
>> "Frank W." <reply_to_newsgroup@please.ccom> wrote in message
>> news:3abksmF64ulhaU2@individual.net...
>> :> I'm curious about HDD temperatures. My two drives (one of them new,
>> : > both of them 7,200 rpm creatures) are running temperatures around the
>> : > early 50 (celsius).
>> :
>> : How are you measuring the temperature?
>> :
>> :
>>
>
>


--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
March 25, 2005 12:14:53 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

> >Interestingly enough all hard drive manufacturers provide a
>
> "maximum operating ambient temperature"
>
> IMO this is an phrase if not meaningless as a definition of how hot
> something that is GENERATING heat is. Ambient suggests the air temp
> and is generally used to describe the air at the intake to a computer
> system.
>
> Th phrase is "operating temperature" and I take it to mean the surface
> temp at the hottest point on the disk. The more airflow the cooler
> the case will be.
>

Stiil, for some SCSI drives Seagate says:
- operating temperature 5-55 degC
- drive ambient temperature 5-55 degC
- maximum allowable HDA case temperature is 60 degC
and for some SATA drives:
- operating temperature 0-60 degC
- ambient temperature 0-60 degC
- ambient temperature is defined as the temperature of the
environment immediately surrounding the drive.
Actual drive case temperature should not exceed 69°C
(156°F) within the operating ambient conditions for
standard models.


> . That is not the same as disk enclosure
> >surface temperarure or S.M.A.R.T reported temperature.
> >Usually they allow disk enclosure temperature to be 5 to 10 degC
> >higher than a maximum ambient temperature.
> >If you assume that SMART temperature matches disk enclosure
> >temperature, you may still be 7-12 degC below a maximum allowed.
> >Not ideal for the hard drive, but within specs.
> >
> >"perrin" <perrin99@singnet.com.sg> wrote in message
> >news:D 1ubqk$tqi$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg...
> >> HDD Temperature (software). One thing I discovered - the HDDs are
cooler
> >> with cover on than without.
> >>
> >> "Frank W." <reply_to_newsgroup@please.ccom> wrote in message
> >> news:3abksmF64ulhaU2@individual.net...
> >> :> I'm curious about HDD temperatures. My two drives (one of them new,
> >> : > both of them 7,200 rpm creatures) are running temperatures around
the
> >> : > early 50 (celsius).
> >> :
> >> : How are you measuring the temperature?
> >> :
> >> :
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
>
> Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
March 25, 2005 12:14:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <3ag1i9F6alt3mU1@individual.net>,
Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> >Interestingly enough all hard drive manufacturers provide a
>>
>> "maximum operating ambient temperature"
>>
>> IMO this is an phrase if not meaningless as a definition of how hot
>> something that is GENERATING heat is. Ambient suggests the air temp
>> and is generally used to describe the air at the intake to a computer
>> system.
>>
>> Th phrase is "operating temperature" and I take it to mean the surface
>> temp at the hottest point on the disk. The more airflow the cooler
>> the case will be.
>>
>
>Stiil, for some SCSI drives Seagate says:
>- operating temperature 5-55 degC
>- drive ambient temperature 5-55 degC
>- maximum allowable HDA case temperature is 60 degC
>and for some SATA drives:
>- operating temperature 0-60 degC
>- ambient temperature 0-60 degC
>- ambient temperature is defined as the temperature of the
>environment immediately surrounding the drive.
>Actual drive case temperature should not exceed 69°C
>(156°F) within the operating ambient conditions for
>standard models.
>
>

OK. I've looked at lots of spec sheets and never seen this. IMO it
could be written better.

In practical terms, IMO 60C is much hotter than I let my disks get, so
I'm well withing any reading of this spec sheet.

--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
March 25, 2005 3:40:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Al Dykes <adykes@panix.com> wrote:

> In article <3afuj5F6a5r5qU1@individual.net>,
> Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >Interestingly enough all hard drive manufacturers provide a
>
> "maximum operating ambient temperature"
>
> IMO this is an phrase if not meaningless as a definition of how hot
> something that is GENERATING heat is. Ambient suggests the air temp
> and is generally used to describe the air at the intake to a computer
> system.
>
> Th phrase is "operating temperature" and I take it to mean the surface
> temp at the hottest point on the disk. The more airflow the cooler
> the case will be.

But never cooler than the air flowing across it. It should be noted that
the electronic components mounted on the *exterior* of a drive case will
also die young if operated in high ambient air temperatures.
March 25, 2005 3:40:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

> > Th phrase is "operating temperature" and I take it to mean the surface
> > temp at the hottest point on the disk. The more airflow the cooler
> > the case will be.
>
> But never cooler than the air flowing across it. It should be noted that
> the electronic components mounted on the *exterior* of a drive case will
> also die young if operated in high ambient air temperatures.
>

It can acually be cooler, if air teperature starts to raise rapidly
(due to external conditions), but not for long ;-)

I still wonder where SMART gets temperature info from...
Do we have to put a real temperature probe stuck to drive
enclosure to get that correlation?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
March 26, 2005 11:54:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

>>> I'm curious about HDD temperatures. My two drives (one of them new,
>>> both of them 7,200 rpm creatures) are running temperatures around
>>> the early 50 (celsius).
>>
>> How are you measuring the temperature?
>>
> HDD Temperature (software). One thing I discovered - the HDDs are
> cooler with cover on than without.

How can software measure the hard drive temperature? Does it work with
all hard drives? Doesn't there need to be a physical sensor measuring
the temperature of the drive? And should that be put on the top or the
bottom of the drive?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 4, 2005 9:00:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:54:37 -0600, "Frank W."
<reply_to_newsgroup@please.ccom> wrote:

>>>> I'm curious about HDD temperatures. My two drives (one of them new,
>>>> both of them 7,200 rpm creatures) are running temperatures around
>>>> the early 50 (celsius).
>>>
>>> How are you measuring the temperature?
>>>
>> HDD Temperature (software). One thing I discovered - the HDDs are
>> cooler with cover on than without.
>
>How can software measure the hard drive temperature? Does it work with
>all hard drives? Doesn't there need to be a physical sensor measuring
>the temperature of the drive? And should that be put on the top or the
>bottom of the drive?
>
HDD temperature is vendor/product unique on SATA/PATA disks. If this
is a SCSI/SAS/SSA/FC disk then the ANSI specification provides an
optional standardized methodology to obtain this.

In addition, disk vendors are free to determine whether or not the
temperature is thermally calibrated to +/- X degrees, or is it just a
relative reading which doesn't translate into degrees C or degrees.

Regardless of physical interface, HDD reporting is going to require
sending pass-through commands.
!