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External hard drive occasional "clicking"

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Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 19, 2005 8:05:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

My external WD hard drive has recently starting 'clicking' on occasion -
like resetting itself over and over. Usually it's quiet, works fine, but
sometimes it will just start clicking like some program is accessing it but
having problems. Reboot the system and everything is fine until next time
(it can be an hour, day, or even a week) until it happens again - no set
pattern.

I really don't believe it's a hard drive malfunction as it just doesn't come
across like that. For what it's worth, virus checks show nothing - Norton
Disk, PC Tools and Hard Drive Mechanic, all say the drive is "A Okay" when
they check it...

Is there a easy way to track down what program is accessing the drive when
it does this? Something along the lines of a good PC 'task monitor'
application?

Thanks for any tips.
April 19, 2005 8:05:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"John L @yahoo.com>" <john_stlmo<removethis> wrote in message
news:BUb9e.3571$f6.80@fe04.lga...
> My external WD hard drive has recently starting 'clicking' on occasion -
> like resetting itself over and over. Usually it's quiet, works fine, but
> sometimes it will just start clicking like some program is accessing it
> but
> having problems. Reboot the system and everything is fine until next time
> (it can be an hour, day, or even a week) until it happens again - no set
> pattern.
>
> I really don't believe it's a hard drive malfunction as it just doesn't
> come
> across like that. For what it's worth, virus checks show nothing - Norton
> Disk, PC Tools and Hard Drive Mechanic, all say the drive is "A Okay" when
> they check it...
>
> Is there a easy way to track down what program is accessing the drive when
> it does this? Something along the lines of a good PC 'task monitor'
> application?
>
> Thanks for any tips.


John:
Any "noise" (such as a clicking sound) that's out of the ordinary emanating
from a HD is *always* a cause of concern. The fact that the diagnostic
utilities you mentioned did not find any problem with the drive is not
compelling. You *must* use Western Digital's hard drive diagnostic utility
(Data Lifeguard Tools version 11) to determine if there's a problem with the
drive. If that diagnostic tool doesn't find any problem with the drive, then
you'll pursue other possible causes if it's not software related, including
any problem with the USB enclosure itself, its cabling, and the USB ports.
Anna
Anna
April 19, 2005 8:05:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

after diag. try
look for indexing software
media sniffers
office 'find fast'

"John L @yahoo.com>" <john_stlmo<removethis> wrote in message
news:BUb9e.3571$f6.80@fe04.lga...
> My external WD hard drive has recently starting 'clicking' on occasion -
> like resetting itself over and over. Usually it's quiet, works fine, but
> sometimes it will just start clicking like some program is accessing it
> but
> having problems. Reboot the system and everything is fine until next time
> (it can be an hour, day, or even a week) until it happens again - no set
> pattern.
>
> I really don't believe it's a hard drive malfunction as it just doesn't
> come
> across like that. For what it's worth, virus checks show nothing - Norton
> Disk, PC Tools and Hard Drive Mechanic, all say the drive is "A Okay" when
> they check it...
>
> Is there a easy way to track down what program is accessing the drive when
> it does this? Something along the lines of a good PC 'task monitor'
> application?
>
> Thanks for any tips.
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 19, 2005 8:42:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Hi Anna thanks for the very quick response...

Yes, I believe the problem to be software related - that's why I'm looking
for task monitor type program to find out which program is accessing the
drive and causing the problem.

Thanks again for your help.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 19, 2005 11:36:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

It's not a software problem. I know of no monitoring programs.

You may have a bad sector. "Chkdsk /r" will tell you what file.

USB enclosure are notorious for drive failures due to heat.

"John L @yahoo.com>" <john_stlmo<removethis> wrote in message
news:Wqc9e.10373$c42.6481@fe07.lga...
> Hi Anna thanks for the very quick response...
>
> Yes, I believe the problem to be software related - that's why I'm looking
> for task monitor type program to find out which program is accessing the
> drive and causing the problem.
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 20, 2005 1:04:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

John L

> My external WD hard drive has recently starting 'clicking' on occasion -
> like resetting itself over and over. Usually it's quiet, works fine, but
> sometimes it will just start clicking like some program is accessing it but
> having problems. Reboot the system and everything is fine until next time
> (it can be an hour, day, or even a week) until it happens again - no set
> pattern.
>
> I really don't believe it's a hard drive malfunction as it just doesn't come
> across like that. For what it's worth, virus checks show nothing - Norton
> Disk, PC Tools and Hard Drive Mechanic, all say the drive is "A Okay" when
> they check it...
>
> Is there a easy way to track down what program is accessing the drive when
> it does this? Something along the lines of a good PC 'task monitor'
> application?
>
> Thanks for any tips.
>
>

While you're searching for programs that might be causing it do a backup
because my bet is it'll die shortly.

The sound people generally describe as 'clicking' is almost always caused
by a bad sector read as the heads slam home to recalibrate head position.
April 20, 2005 3:10:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"John L @yahoo.com>" <john_stlmo<removethis> wrote in message
news:BUb9e.3571$f6.80@fe04.lga...
> My external WD hard drive has recently starting 'clicking' on occasion -

<snip>
> Thanks for any tips.
>
>

John,

My hard drive has started doing this recently as well, which has turned out
to be bad sectors on the drive. I looked in Event Viewer under System and
it reports problems with the drive.

Have a look at yours (Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Event Viewer
in XP, similar in others), as it should report any problems it's come across
while trying to access data.

I have since run the Seagate diagnostic tools and found out that I need to
send it back :( .

Grendel.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 20, 2005 5:12:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"John L @yahoo.com>" <john_stlmo<removethis> wrote in message
news:BUb9e.3571$f6.80@fe04.lga...
> My external WD hard drive has recently starting 'clicking' on occasion -
> like resetting itself over and over. Usually it's quiet, works fine, but
> sometimes it will just start clicking like some program is accessing it
but
> having problems. Reboot the system and everything is fine until next time
> (it can be an hour, day, or even a week) until it happens again - no set
> pattern.

Make sure you do a full backup anyway.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 20, 2005 5:12:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

I removed everything 'important' from the drive when the problem started and
everything on there now is already backed up to DVDs.

Backups of a backup of a backup - it's getting rather silly...

This drive only lasted about 7 months - anybody care to recommend an
external backup drive with some longevity - something you've personally had
good luck with?

Thanks for all the help...
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 20, 2005 5:18:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 44gpp02pum@enews1.newsguy.com...
> USB enclosure are notorious for drive failures due to heat.

If you can find one of these and don't mind

a) drilling some holes in the bottom
b) it's size
c) it's external power adaptor
d) the fan

...then they run about as cool as you can get...
http://www.stardom.com.tw/web/pro-U71.htm
they do a nice stack as well..
http://www.stardom.com.tw/web/pro-U74.htm
April 20, 2005 7:49:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Yes, you're right - found a great little monitor program"
What program did you found? Can you give us the address?

Dan
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 20, 2005 8:10:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Probably filemon - sysinternals.com .

"Dan" <gamesstate@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114037346.190985.31260@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> "Yes, you're right - found a great little monitor program"
> What program did you found? Can you give us the address?
>
> Dan
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 20, 2005 8:14:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Hi,

Yes, you're right - found a great little monitor program -- and nothing is
accessing the drive when it goes into it's clicking routine...

Looking for recommendations on best external drive - do any come with a
cooling fan?

Thanks for all the help...

John

"Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 44gpp02pum@enews1.newsguy.com...
> It's not a software problem. I know of no monitoring programs.
>
> You may have a bad sector. "Chkdsk /r" will tell you what file.
>
> USB enclosure are notorious for drive failures due to heat.
>
> "John L @yahoo.com>" <john_stlmo<removethis> wrote in message
> news:Wqc9e.10373$c42.6481@fe07.lga...
> > Hi Anna thanks for the very quick response...
> >
> > Yes, I believe the problem to be software related - that's why I'm
looking
> > for task monitor type program to find out which program is accessing the
> > drive and causing the problem.
> >
>
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 20, 2005 9:02:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"John L @yahoo.com>" <john_stlmo<removethis> wrote in message
news:Zgt9e.4991$Ah5.3763@fe05.lga...
> I removed everything 'important' from the drive when the problem started
and
> everything on there now is already backed up to DVDs.
>
> Backups of a backup of a backup - it's getting rather silly...
>
> This drive only lasted about 7 months - anybody care to recommend an
> external backup drive with some longevity - something you've personally
had
> good luck with?
>
> Thanks for all the help...

I built my own. I put a WD drive in one of these..
http://www.stardom.com.tw/web/pro-U71.htm
they do a nice stack as well..
http://www.stardom.com.tw/web/pro-U74.htm
but they need holes drilled in the base as there appears to be no air inlet
for the mini fan on the back.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 21, 2005 6:43:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Sure, it's even freeware - "Filemon" at http://www.sysinternals.com/ tracks
all activity to any drive you specify - really nice.

It allowed me to see that although a few programs were accessing the drive
(Norton Protect - Windows SVCexe, etc.,) the 'clickings' didn't correspond
to the access times - so it wasn't a software issue after all - just a hard
drive going bad as everyone said...

Rant: That's the second external drive that went bad within 2 years of
purchase. One Seagate, one WD. I'm beginning to think they're just not worth
the money.

John

"Dan" <gamesstate@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114037346.190985.31260@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> "Yes, you're right - found a great little monitor program"
> What program did you found? Can you give us the address?
>
> Dan
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 21, 2005 7:40:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:43:45 -0500, "John L"
<john_stlmo<removethis>@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Sure, it's even freeware - "Filemon" at http://www.sysinternals.com/ tracks
>all activity to any drive you specify - really nice.
>
>It allowed me to see that although a few programs were accessing the drive
>(Norton Protect - Windows SVCexe, etc.,) the 'clickings' didn't correspond
>to the access times - so it wasn't a software issue after all - just a hard
>drive going bad as everyone said...
>
>Rant: That's the second external drive that went bad within 2 years of
>purchase. One Seagate, one WD. I'm beginning to think they're just not worth
>the money.
>
>John

That's why most HDD's only come with a one year warranty now. They
know they are prone to failure. The average lifespan of a HDD is
supposed to be 3-5 years though. I've got two HDD's in my PC and one
of them clicks occasionally but I can't figure out which one it is.
I've ran chkdsk /r on both and no problems show up and both drives are
functioning normally. I'm thinking maybe it's just the second drive
parking the head for some reason because it's not in use most of the
time but I have power saving turned off so it shouldn't do that, or it
could be on its way to failure too. I just hope it's not my main 160gb
HDD.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 22, 2005 3:57:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"John L @yahoo.com>" <john_stlmo<removethis> wrote in message
news:WoT9e.7875$Ah5.857@fe05.lga...
> Sure, it's even freeware - "Filemon" at http://www.sysinternals.com/
tracks
> all activity to any drive you specify - really nice.
>
> It allowed me to see that although a few programs were accessing the drive
> (Norton Protect - Windows SVCexe, etc.,) the 'clickings' didn't correspond
> to the access times - so it wasn't a software issue after all - just a
hard
> drive going bad as everyone said...
>
> Rant: That's the second external drive that went bad within 2 years of
> purchase. One Seagate, one WD. I'm beginning to think they're just not
worth
> the money.
>
> John
>
> "Dan" <gamesstate@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1114037346.190985.31260@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> > "Yes, you're right - found a great little monitor program"
> > What program did you found? Can you give us the address?
> >
> > Dan
> >
>
>
External hard drives are the same as internal hard drives. The drive is
just put into an enclosure. You can just buy a new internal drive and switch
it out with the old one. The problem could be heat buildup. Those USB
enclosures don't seem to have any air flow at all. Hard drive can generate a
good amount of heat.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 22, 2005 8:42:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"John L" <john_stlmo<removethis>@yahoo.com> writes:

> My external WD hard drive has recently starting 'clicking' on occasion -
> like resetting itself over and over. Usually it's quiet, works fine, but
> sometimes it will just start clicking like some program is accessing it but
> having problems. Reboot the system and everything is fine until next time
> (it can be an hour, day, or even a week) until it happens again - no set
> pattern.

There's something wrong with the drive, usually. Bad sectors can cause
this.

> I really don't believe it's a hard drive malfunction as it just doesn't come
> across like that. For what it's worth, virus checks show nothing - Norton
> Disk, PC Tools and Hard Drive Mechanic, all say the drive is "A Okay" when
> they check it...

Download Western Digital's freestanding drive test program, and test the
drive offline. If it passes all the tests (even the long ones), it's
okay. If it doesn't, the drive has a problem. Since the program boots
up itself, independently of your normal operating system, it effectively
rules out any OS problems, viruses, etc., when it tests the drive.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 22, 2005 8:45:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Aldwyn Edain writes:

> I've ran chkdsk /r on both and no problems show up and both drives are
> functioning normally. I'm thinking maybe it's just the second drive
> parking the head for some reason because it's not in use most of the
> time but I have power saving turned off so it shouldn't do that, or it
> could be on its way to failure too. I just hope it's not my main 160gb
> HDD.

When the clicking is a reset caused by a bad sector or something like
that, you can often map out the bad sector and continue using the drive
for years without failure.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
April 22, 2005 8:45:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:h8pg61li7rrg1hc9jo0j72k7eji8njqpgu@4ax.com...
> When the clicking is a reset caused by a bad sector or something like
> that, you can often map out the bad sector and continue using the drive
> for years without failure.

Yes, I know, so long as there are not too many of them. I remember Norton's
Speeddisk would show the bad clusters marked out.Microsoft's defrag doesn't.
Maybe I'll install that and see what it shows, I have the 2002 version
hanging around here somewhere. I'm running HDD manufacturer diagnostics on
both drives right now, man, is it slow and tedious too. Thx.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 22, 2005 8:47:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"John L" <john_stlmo<removethis>@yahoo.com> writes:

> This drive only lasted about 7 months - anybody care to recommend an
> external backup drive with some longevity - something you've personally had
> good luck with?

One of my Western Digital drives lasted only 60 days, so you're lucky.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 22, 2005 11:12:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

John L @yahoo.com <john_stlmo<removethis> wrote
in message news:WoT9e.7875$Ah5.857@fe05.lga...

> Sure, it's even freeware - "Filemon" at http://www.sysinternals.com/
> tracks all activity to any drive you specify - really nice.

> It allowed me to see that although a few programs were accessing
> the drive (Norton Protect - Windows SVCexe, etc.,) the 'clickings'
> didn't correspond to the access times - so it wasn't a software
> issue after all - just a hard drive going bad as everyone said...

> Rant: That's the second external drive that went bad
> within 2 years of purchase. One Seagate, one WD.
> I'm beginning to think they're just not worth the money.

Best get one in a decent case that keep it cool next time.


> Dan <gamesstate@gmail.com> wrote

>> "Yes, you're right - found a great little monitor program"
>> What program did you found? Can you give us the address?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 22, 2005 11:35:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage "John L" <john_stlmo <removethis>@yahoo.com> wrote:
> My external WD hard drive has recently starting 'clicking' on occasion -
> like resetting itself over and over. Usually it's quiet, works fine, but
> sometimes it will just start clicking like some program is accessing it but
> having problems. Reboot the system and everything is fine until next time
> (it can be an hour, day, or even a week) until it happens again - no set
> pattern.

> I really don't believe it's a hard drive malfunction as it just doesn't come
> across like that. For what it's worth, virus checks show nothing - Norton
> Disk, PC Tools and Hard Drive Mechanic, all say the drive is "A Okay" when
> they check it...

> Is there a easy way to track down what program is accessing the drive when
> it does this? Something along the lines of a good PC 'task monitor'
> application?

Software cannot cause the typical recalibration "click". It is a special
head move the drive electronics do when, e.g., a sector mark is not found.
The purpose is to re-measure the mechanical properties of the head
assembly.

This can happen occasionally during normal operation, but a repeated
oaacurence in a short time (seconds) almost allways indicates that the
recal did not correct the problem.

I have seen this happening in drives thet did run too hot. In that case
the drive would probably not be damaged (yet). The diagnostic software
you mentioned cannot assess mechanical or electronic HDD problems until
they have gotten so bad thet they happen very frequently. One thing
that could help is a look at the HDDs error log with a SMART tool.
It should contain a log of the last few errors tha HDD experienced.
Youc an also run a SMART long self-test, which does a complete surface
scan, although it will not necessarily find anything. In addition
you should run WDs diagnostic utility, since it can access functionality
that is vendor-specific.

IF you fins nothing, I would advise you to enable automatic self-test
on the drive (if it has it) and run a long SMART self-test every
two weeks or so for a while. If your set-up supports it you should
also monitor the drive temperature, e.g. every 5 minutes into a log-
file. Otherwise you should look te temperature manually whenever you
notice further clicks.

Arno
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 22, 2005 1:05:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Aldwyn Edain" <ae@invalid.email> wrote in message
news:6gag611o19kqanpbhsourr40pg6cbvmli7@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:43:45 -0500, "John L"
> <john_stlmo<removethis>@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Sure, it's even freeware - "Filemon" at http://www.sysinternals.com/ tracks
>>all activity to any drive you specify - really nice.
>>
>>It allowed me to see that although a few programs were accessing the drive
>>(Norton Protect - Windows SVCexe, etc.,) the 'clickings' didn't correspond
>>to the access times - so it wasn't a software issue after all - just a hard
>>drive going bad as everyone said...
>>
>>Rant: That's the second external drive that went bad within 2 years of
>>purchase. One Seagate, one WD. I'm beginning to think they're just not worth
>>the money.

> That's why most HDD's only come with a one year warranty now.

Wrong. And Seagate has just gone up to 5 years.

> They know they are prone to failure.

Fraid that isnt the reason.

> The average lifespan of a HDD is supposed to be 3-5 years though.

Wrong again, its quite a bit longer than that.

> I've got two HDD's in my PC and one of them clicks
> occasionally but I can't figure out which one it is.

It might well show up in the SMART data for the drives.
Try http://www.lavalys.com/products/overview.php?pid=1&lang...

> I've ran chkdsk /r on both and no problems show up and both drives are
> functioning normally. I'm thinking maybe it's just the second drive parking
> the head for some reason because it's not in use most of the time

It wont be that, that should be silent.

> but I have power saving turned off so it shouldn't do that,

And that doesnt sound like that either.

> or it could be on its way to failure too.

Very likely. Backup what you'll slash your wrists if you
lose, even if you have to buy a DVD burner to do that.

> I just hope it's not my main 160gb HDD.

Its usually the least convenient that dies.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 22, 2005 1:05:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:05:22 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
wrote:


>> That's why most HDD's only come with a one year warranty now.
>
>Wrong. And Seagate has just gone up to 5 years.

That's just a recent change. Most were dropping down to one year.


>Fraid that isnt the reason.

It's common knowledge that HDD's fail quite frequently.

>> The average lifespan of a HDD is supposed to be 3-5 years though.
>
>Wrong again, its quite a bit longer than that.

Funny, that's what I just read on a tech site just a few days ago.
What's your estimate then? Ten years?


>It might well show up in the SMART data for the drives.
>Try http://www.lavalys.com/products/overview.php?pid=1&lang...

Well, at least you gave me something of use even if you did have to go
about it a bit godlike. Thx.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 22, 2005 4:50:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Id Like to get into this one.
When HDs were first designed Manufatures gave a 10 year return
warranty.
Now unfortunately its only 3 years.
But , if u look after ur drives they should last for ever.
Too many defrags , surface scan will harm the media.
Scratch a cd in the wrong place and it jumps.
As ur using external drive . U might of damaged it in some way .
Which means u probably need a new drive .
Good luck.
Best rgds Steve ( turk2045 )
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 22, 2005 6:29:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Aldwyn Edain <ae@invalid.email> wrote in message
news:bvmg61dnr5fqtgsq993g617n15h4shauto@4ax.com...
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

>> Aldwyn Edain <ae@invalid.email> wrote

>>> That's why most HDD's only come with a one year warranty now.

>> Wrong. And Seagate has just gone up to 5 years.

> That's just a recent change.

Correct, but they wouldnt be doing that if the average
life of their hard drives was really less than 5 years.

> Most were dropping down to one year.

WERE, and it remains to be seen how many
will stick with 1 year now that Seagate has 5.

>>> They know they are prone to failure.

>> Fraid that isnt the reason.

> It's common knowledge that HDD's fail quite frequently.

Bullshit.

>>> The average lifespan of a HDD is supposed to be 3-5 years though.

>> Wrong again, its quite a bit longer than that.

> Funny, that's what I just read on a tech site just a few days ago.

There's always some making stupid claims. Its just a
tad unlikely that Seagate would be stupid enough to
have 5 year warrantys if that was actually true, and
they have much more reliable numbers on the failure
rates than you do, or some unnamed 'tech site' either.

> What's your estimate then? Ten years?

There is no nice tidy number.

>> It might well show up in the SMART data for the drives.
>> Try http://www.lavalys.com/products/overview.php?pid=1&lang...

> Well, at least you gave me something of use
> even if you did have to go about it a bit godlike.

Just exposed your bullshit for what it was.
April 22, 2005 6:29:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3crcu1F6q9d09U1@individual.net...
> > Well, at least you gave me something of use
> > even if you did have to go about it a bit godlike.
>
> Just exposed your bullshit for what it was.
>
>

It wasn't "total" bullshit. HDD's on average don't last past five years. All
magnetic media has a lifespan. Maybe Seagate has hit upon some technology
that has made *their* drives more reliable.Remember the fiasco with IBM
drive failures? Those things were dieing by the truckload on a daily
basis.Why did all the manufacturers all of a sudden go to only one year for
a while unless you bought one of their large cache drives? Seems suspect to
me.

Anyway, I already had Everest I just never got around to installing it. It
shows no errors under the S.M.A.R.T. test. Downloaded Seagate Seatools and
it showed no errors either but I only ran the quick test, will run the full
test overnight. Downloaded PowerMax for the Maxtor drive and the quick test
showed no errors also, now running the lengthy extended test on that drive
and is why I'm posting under a different name on this other computer.
April 22, 2005 6:29:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3crcu1F6q9d09U1@individual.net...
>
> Aldwyn Edain <ae@invalid.email> wrote in message
> news:bvmg61dnr5fqtgsq993g617n15h4shauto@4ax.com...
> > Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> >> Aldwyn Edain <ae@invalid.email> wrote
>
> >>> That's why most HDD's only come with a one year warranty now.
>
> >> Wrong. And Seagate has just gone up to 5 years.
>
> > That's just a recent change.
>
> Correct, but they wouldnt be doing that if the average
> life of their hard drives was really less than 5 years.
>
> > Most were dropping down to one year.
>
> WERE, and it remains to be seen how many
> will stick with 1 year now that Seagate has 5.
>
> >>> They know they are prone to failure.
>
> >> Fraid that isnt the reason.
>
> > It's common knowledge that HDD's fail quite frequently.
>
> Bullshit.
>
> >>> The average lifespan of a HDD is supposed to be 3-5 years though.
>
> >> Wrong again, its quite a bit longer than that.
>
> > Funny, that's what I just read on a tech site just a few days ago.
>
> There's always some making stupid claims. Its just a
> tad unlikely that Seagate would be stupid enough to
> have 5 year warrantys if that was actually true, and
> they have much more reliable numbers on the failure
> rates than you do, or some unnamed 'tech site' either.
>

How about just using it (5y warrenty) as a selling point cause no one else
is doing it?

> > What's your estimate then? Ten years?
>
> There is no nice tidy number.
>
> >> It might well show up in the SMART data for the drives.
> >> Try http://www.lavalys.com/products/overview.php?pid=1&lang...
>
> > Well, at least you gave me something of use
> > even if you did have to go about it a bit godlike.
>
> Just exposed your bullshit for what it was.
>
>
April 22, 2005 6:29:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

> How about just using it (5y warrenty) as a selling point cause no one else
> is doing it?

And keeping the same product price as the competition?
April 22, 2005 6:29:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

are you asking? of course, why would you do a positive thing then cancel
it by doing something negative?

this kind of posturing is done all the time in the advertising world. its
fundamental.


"Peter" <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:tN8ae.9352$9G.712077@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > How about just using it (5y warrenty) as a selling point cause no one
else
> > is doing it?
>
> And keeping the same product price as the competition?
>
>
April 22, 2005 6:29:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Where should they find money to pay for a replacement of drives
failed between second and fifth year of service?

"JAD" <kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote in message
news:Ie9ae.5234$Gq6.3361@fe02.lga...
> are you asking? of course, why would you do a positive thing then cancel
> it by doing something negative?
>
> this kind of posturing is done all the time in the advertising world. its
> fundamental.
>
>
> "Peter" <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:tN8ae.9352$9G.712077@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > How about just using it (5y warrenty) as a selling point cause no one
> else
> > > is doing it?
> >
> > And keeping the same product price as the competition?
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 22, 2005 8:09:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Sodium <sodium@benzoate.invalid> wrote in message
news:116h3u6aujcqq7e@corp.supernews.com...
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

>>> Well, at least you gave me something of use
>>> even if you did have to go about it a bit godlike.

>> Just exposed your bullshit for what it was.

> It wasn't "total" bullshit.

Corse it was, total bullshit.

> HDD's on average don't last past five years.

Bullshit they dont.

> All magnetic media has a lifespan.

Complete and utter bullshit with times like 5 years.

Have fun explaining how come I have plenty
of drives over that old that havent failed.

And the ones that do fail dont fail because
the magnetic media has failed either.

> Maybe Seagate has hit upon some technology
> that has made *their* drives more reliable.

Or maybe not and most drives
dont in fact fail in less than 5 years.

> Remember the fiasco with IBM drive failures?

Yep, but that wasnt magnetic media failing, otherwise
it wouldnt have only been seen with the DeathStars.

And neither were the Fujitsu MPGs that failed at a very high rate
either. The MPGs failed when a chip on the logic card failed.

> Those things were dieing by the truckload on a daily basis.

Thats overstating the failure rate.

> Why did all the manufacturers all of a sudden go to only one year
> for a while unless you bought one of their large cache drives?

Basically because that allowed them to sell the drives for a lower
price. Any warranty has to have the cost of providing the warranty
included in the price, even if none fail at all, because some will kill their
drives in various ways and some will return the drive when its fine.

> Seems suspect to me.

Only because you dont understand how hard drives fail.

> Anyway, I already had Everest I just never got around to
> installing it. It shows no errors under the S.M.A.R.T. test.

What did it say about sectors reallocated ?

> Downloaded Seagate Seatools and it showed no errors
> either but I only ran the quick test, will run the full test
> overnight. Downloaded PowerMax for the Maxtor drive
> and the quick test showed no errors also, now running
> the lengthy extended test on that drive and is why I'm
> posting under a different name on this other computer.

OK.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 22, 2005 11:13:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Sodium writes:

> It wasn't "total" bullshit. HDD's on average don't last past five years.

If you subtract early failures, they last for a very long time.

> Anyway, I already had Everest I just never got around to installing it. It
> shows no errors under the S.M.A.R.T. test. Downloaded Seagate Seatools and
> it showed no errors either but I only ran the quick test, will run the full
> test overnight. Downloaded PowerMax for the Maxtor drive and the quick test
> showed no errors also, now running the lengthy extended test on that drive
> and is why I'm posting under a different name on this other computer.

Even an extended test should not take all night. More like 1-2 hours at
most.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 22, 2005 11:15:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Peter writes:

> Where should they find money to pay for a replacement of drives
> failed between second and fifth year of service?

A drive that doesn't fail the first year will probably last longer than
five years, so the different between a one-year warranty and a five-year
warranty may be insignificant for the manufacturer.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
April 22, 2005 11:15:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

> > Where should they find money to pay for a replacement of drives
> > failed between second and fifth year of service?
>
> A drive that doesn't fail the first year will probably last longer than
> five years, so the different between a one-year warranty and a five-year
> warranty may be insignificant for the manufacturer.

From the fact that most surviving drives will last more than five years you
cannot
draw a conclusion that cost of replacing failed ones would be insignificant.

While consumer hard drives may be more reliable than years ago,
more drives are subject to harsh temperature conditions in improperly
cooled enclosures. Drives running with their body reaching 35-40 degC
last much longer than drives running 55-60 degC.

I'm not aware of a temperature tracking feature (in consumer drives)
that would allow manufacturer to reject warranty claim if drive exceeded
operating temperature range.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 22, 2005 11:16:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Sodium writes:

> I'm running HDD manufacturer diagnostics on
> both drives right now, man, is it slow and tedious too.

It shouldn't be too slow. Even the most complete test should finish in
1-2 hours for a typical drive (45 min. for my 120-GB WD drives). If the
test seems to take forever, it might be trying to recover from data
errors. Watch the elapsed time clock--if it's not clicking over
regularly every second, that may be what is happened. You can then
consider the drive bad.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 23, 2005 12:34:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Mxsmanic wrote:
>
> Sodium writes:
>
> > I'm running HDD manufacturer diagnostics on
> > both drives right now, man, is it slow and tedious too.
>
> It shouldn't be too slow. Even the most complete test should finish in
> 1-2 hours for a typical drive (45 min. for my 120-GB WD drives).


Strange, that - when I run a full diagnostic test (including
comprehensive surface scan) a 120GB drive will typically take 5 or 6
hours.


Odie
--
Retrodata
www.retrodata.co.uk
Globally Local Data Recovery Experts
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 23, 2005 12:50:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Eric Gisin wrote:

> USB enclosure are notorious for drive failures due to heat.

WD enclosures aren't even the worst. I have an IOmega that feels
considerably hotter, and it makes its WD internal HD reach at least
63C. The funny thing is that this enclosure was designed for a fan,
but IOmega left it out. I haven't measured the temperature of the HD
inside the WD enclosure, but it's ventilated better, although not
nearly as well as the Seagate or Maxtor USB drive I saw, which had
grill holes all around the perimeter.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 23, 2005 1:11:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

turk2045 wrote:
>
> Id Like to get into this one.
> When HDs were first designed Manufatures gave a 10 year return
> warranty.
> Now unfortunately its only 3 years.
> But , if u look after ur drives they should last for ever.
> Too many defrags , surface scan will harm the media.
> Scratch a cd in the wrong place and it jumps.
> As ur using external drive . U might of damaged it in some way .
> Which means u probably need a new drive .
> Good luck.
> Best rgds Steve ( turk2045 )

Oh, the blissful euphoria of ignorance...

Steve - you'll probably live to 120.


Odie
--
Retrodata
www.retrodata.co.uk
Globally Local Data Recovery Experts
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 23, 2005 2:25:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Peter writes:

> From the fact that most surviving drives will last more than five years you
> cannot draw a conclusion that cost of replacing failed ones would be insignificant.

Yes, you can. Suppose survival rates are as follows:

0 years . . . . . . 100%
1 year . . . . . . 91%
2 years . . . . . . 90%
3 years . . . . . . 88%
4 years . . . . . . 85%
5 years . . . . . . 81%
6 years . . . . . . 78%
7 years . . . . . . 70%
8 years . . . . . . 58%
9 years . . . . . . 48%
10 years . . . . . 30%

Extending the warranty from one year to five years doubles return rates,
which may well be affordable.

> I'm not aware of a temperature tracking feature (in consumer drives)
> that would allow manufacturer to reject warranty claim if drive exceeded
> operating temperature range.

SMART keeps track of the highest temperature encountered.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 23, 2005 2:27:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Odie Ferrous writes:

> Strange, that - when I run a full diagnostic test (including
> comprehensive surface scan) a 120GB drive will typically take 5 or 6
> hours.

I ran the longest test I found in WD's diagnostics, and it finished in
48 minutes or so, for a 120-GB drive.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
April 23, 2005 2:52:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:m9ci61pgpv1k6pk1b5pbvouodar8b0lllt@4ax.com...
> Sodium writes:
>
> It shouldn't be too slow. Even the most complete test should finish in
> 1-2 hours for a typical drive (45 min. for my 120-GB WD drives). If the
> test seems to take forever, it might be trying to recover from data
> errors. Watch the elapsed time clock--if it's not clicking over
> regularly every second, that may be what is happened. You can then
> consider the drive bad.

Nah, both extensive tests I ran on both drives didn't take too long and both
showed up no errors either.
I haven't had any clicking either. I thought Speeddisk showed bad clusters
but it doesn't. Must have been the old defrag in Win98 that did. Sure would
like a defragger for XP that shows bad clusters so I know for sure if these
utillities I ran moved any data out of any bad sector areas. The reports
don't say anything about bad clusters.
April 23, 2005 2:56:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Odie Ferrous" <odie_ferrous@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:426951BC.5B25EDF0@hotmail.com...
> Strange, that - when I run a full diagnostic test (including
> comprehensive surface scan) a 120GB drive will typically take 5 or 6
> hours.

I ran Seagate Seatool extensive test, including surface scan, on a 160gb
drive last night and I don't think it took much more than an hour or
so.Maybe two hours at the most. Then I ran Maxtor's utils in extensive mode
on an 80gb drive and that was less than an hour I think.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 23, 2005 4:17:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Sodium wrote:

>
> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3crcu1F6q9d09U1@individual.net...
>> > Well, at least you gave me something of use
>> > even if you did have to go about it a bit godlike.
>>
>> Just exposed your bullshit for what it was.
>>
>>
>
> It wasn't "total" bullshit. HDD's on average don't last past five years.

Statistical analysis to support this contention please?

> All magnetic media has a lifespan.

This is true. However it is a half truth because that lifespan is in
general considerably longer than 5 years and the common failure modes of
disks have no relation to the longevity of the media.

> Maybe Seagate has hit upon some
> technology that has made *their* drives more reliable.

Good bearings and conservatively rated chips will do it.

> Remember the fiasco
> with IBM drive failures? Those things were dieing by the truckload on a
> daily basis.

Statistics? Note that so far the lawyers bringing the class-action suit
have in 3-1/2 years succeeded in doing nothing but filing complaints and
spending a substantial amount of some guy's money.

> Why did all the manufacturers all of a sudden go to only one
> year for a while unless you bought one of their large cache drives? Seems
> suspect to me.

Why would the large cache drive be more reliable? It's all marketing.

> Anyway, I already had Everest I just never got around to installing it. It
> shows no errors under the S.M.A.R.T. test. Downloaded Seagate Seatools and
> it showed no errors either but I only ran the quick test, will run the
> full test overnight. Downloaded PowerMax for the Maxtor drive and the
> quick test showed no errors also, now running the lengthy extended test on
> that drive and is why I'm posting under a different name on this other
> computer.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 23, 2005 4:34:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:3crnphF6nn2jnU1@individual.net
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage "John L" <john_stlmo <removethis>@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > My external WD hard drive has recently starting 'clicking' on occasion -
> > like resetting itself over and over. Usually it's quiet, works fine, but
> > sometimes it will just start clicking like some program is accessing it but
> > having problems. Reboot the system and everything is fine until next time
> > (it can be an hour, day, or even a week) until it happens again - no set pattern.
>
> > I really don't believe it's a hard drive malfunction as it just doesn't come
> > across like that. For what it's worth, virus checks show nothing - Norton
> > Disk, PC Tools and Hard Drive Mechanic, all say the drive is "A Okay" when
> > they check it...
>
> > Is there a easy way to track down what program is accessing the drive when
> > it does this? Something along the lines of a good PC 'task monitor' application?
>
> Software cannot cause the typical recalibration "click".

Actually it can (rezero command) but it is limited to SCSI drives.
And it is not a recalibration "click". It's the 'goto zero position' "click".

> It is a special
> head move the drive electronics do when, e.g., a sector mark is not found.

> The purpose is to re-measure the mechanical properties of the head assembly.

Nope. That one is the stairstep repetitive seek over the full disk area.

>
> This can happen occasionally during normal operation, but a repeated
> oaacurence in a short time (seconds) almost allways indicates that the
> recal did not correct the problem.

That's not a recal, that's a rezero (goto zero position).
>
> I have seen this happening in drives thet did run too hot. In that case
> the drive would probably not be damaged (yet).

> The diagnostic software you mentioned cannot assess mechanical or electronic
> HDD problems until they have gotten so bad thet they happen very frequently.

That's a load of rubbish.

> One thing that could help is a look at the HDDs error log with a SMART tool.
> It should contain a log of the last few errors tha HDD experienced.

> Youc an also run a SMART long self-test,

There is no such thing as a "SMART long self-test", that is just an option
of Smartmontools.

> which does a complete surface scan,

*If* the drive supports Off-line Read Scanning.

> although it will not necessarily find anything.
> In addition you should run WDs diagnostic utility, since
> it can access functionality that is vendor-specific.
>
> IF you fins nothing, I would advise you to enable automatic self-test
> on the drive (if it has it)

No such thing either.

> and run a long SMART self-test every two weeks or so for a while.

Which assumes the use of Smartmontools.

> If your set-up supports it you should also monitor the drive temperature,
> e.g. every 5 minutes into a logfile. Otherwise you should look te temperature
> manually whenever you notice further clicks.
>
> Arno
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 23, 2005 5:03:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Odie Ferrous" <odie_ferrous@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:426951BC.5B25EDF0@hotmail.com
> Mxsmanic wrote:
> >
> > Sodium writes:
> >
> > > I'm running HDD manufacturer diagnostics on
> > > both drives right now, man, is it slow and tedious too.
> >
> > It shouldn't be too slow. Even the most complete test should finish in
> > 1-2 hours for a typical drive (45 min. for my 120-GB WD drives).
>
>
> Strange, that -

> when I run a full diagnostic test (including comprehensive surface scan)
> a 120GB drive will typically take 5 or 6 hours.

Perhaps that 's why they send them to you in the first place?

>
>
> Odie
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 23, 2005 6:14:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Peter writes:
>
>
>>Where should they find money to pay for a replacement of drives
>>failed between second and fifth year of service?
>
>
> A drive that doesn't fail the first year will probably last longer than
> five years, so the different between a one-year warranty and a five-year
> warranty may be insignificant for the manufacturer.

That would be assuming the drives are not abused and I'm not so sure one
could count on that, especially temp and mechanical shock..

>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 23, 2005 8:58:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

JAD <kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote in
message news:1G8ae.5220$Gq6.907@fe02.lga...
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Aldwyn Edain <ae@invalid.email> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>> Aldwyn Edain <ae@invalid.email> wrote

>>>>> That's why most HDD's only come with a one year warranty now.

>>>> Wrong. And Seagate has just gone up to 5 years.

>>> That's just a recent change.

>> Correct, but they wouldnt be doing that if the average
>> life of their hard drives was really less than 5 years.

>>> Most were dropping down to one year.

>> WERE, and it remains to be seen how many
>> will stick with 1 year now that Seagate has 5.

>>>>> They know they are prone to failure.

>>>> Fraid that isnt the reason.

>>> It's common knowledge that HDD's fail quite frequently.

>> Bullshit.

>>>>> The average lifespan of a HDD is supposed to be 3-5 years though.

>>>> Wrong again, its quite a bit longer than that.

>>> Funny, that's what I just read on a tech site just a few days ago.

>> There's always some making stupid claims. Its just a
>> tad unlikely that Seagate would be stupid enough to
>> have 5 year warrantys if that was actually true, and
>> they have much more reliable numbers on the failure
>> rates than you do, or some unnamed 'tech site' either.

> How about just using it (5y warrenty) as a
> selling point cause no one else is doing it?

They wouldnt be stupid enough to do that if they had
a significant number of failures in less than 5 years.

If they have got that wrong, they will go bust.

>>> What's your estimate then? Ten years?

>> There is no nice tidy number.

>>>> It might well show up in the SMART data for the drives.
>>>> Try http://www.lavalys.com/products/overview.php?pid=1&lang...

>>> Well, at least you gave me something of use
>>> even if you did have to go about it a bit godlike.

>> Just exposed your bullshit for what it was.
April 23, 2005 8:58:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3csvq5F6qi9jeU1@individual.net...
>
> JAD <kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote in
> message news:1G8ae.5220$Gq6.907@fe02.lga...
>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> Aldwyn Edain <ae@invalid.email> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>>> Aldwyn Edain <ae@invalid.email> wrote
>
>>>>>> That's why most HDD's only come with a one year warranty now.
>
>>>>> Wrong. And Seagate has just gone up to 5 years.
>
>>>> That's just a recent change.
>
>>> Correct, but they wouldnt be doing that if the average
>>> life of their hard drives was really less than 5 years.
>
>>>> Most were dropping down to one year.
>
>>> WERE, and it remains to be seen how many
>>> will stick with 1 year now that Seagate has 5.
>
>>>>>> They know they are prone to failure.
>
>>>>> Fraid that isnt the reason.
>
>>>> It's common knowledge that HDD's fail quite frequently.
>
>>> Bullshit.
>
>>>>>> The average lifespan of a HDD is supposed to be 3-5 years though.
>
>>>>> Wrong again, its quite a bit longer than that.
>
>>>> Funny, that's what I just read on a tech site just a few days ago.
>
>>> There's always some making stupid claims. Its just a
>>> tad unlikely that Seagate would be stupid enough to
>>> have 5 year warrantys if that was actually true, and
>>> they have much more reliable numbers on the failure
>>> rates than you do, or some unnamed 'tech site' either.
>
>> How about just using it (5y warrenty) as a
>> selling point cause no one else is doing it?
>
> They wouldnt be stupid enough to do that if they had
> a significant number of failures in less than 5 years.
>
> If they have got that wrong, they will go bust.


And this HAS NEVER happened? Gambling with advertising is what makes
advertising what it is.
Obviously they have done the math, even in here people can figure trends....




>
>>>> What's your estimate then? Ten years?
>
>>> There is no nice tidy number.
>
>>>>> It might well show up in the SMART data for the drives.
>>>>> Try
>>>>> http://www.lavalys.com/products/overview.php?pid=1&lang...
>
>>>> Well, at least you gave me something of use
>>>> even if you did have to go about it a bit godlike.
>
>>> Just exposed your bullshit for what it was.
>
>
!