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Total harddrive failure...options

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Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 4, 2005 5:03:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

I had a power spike zapped my PS, mobo, both harddrives, CD drive and CD
writer. The drives are all IDE and the mobo was an ASUS Slot 1. The
CPU and memory survived. When I hook either of the harddrives to
another mobo, they do not spin up nor is the mobo able to boot.
Removing drive from ribbon cable does allow boot from CD (not the dead
one). Do I have any chance of getting data off these drives? Will one
of those harddrive data reclaim services work?

Thanks.
May 4, 2005 5:03:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

Power spike THAT bad will have crashed your drive
head bigtime. I suspect the recording surface is ruined
too.

johns
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 4, 2005 7:09:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

johns wrote:
> Power spike THAT bad will have crashed your drive
> head bigtime. I suspect the recording surface is ruined
> too.
>
> johns
>
>

Why would you conclude that a power spike must necessarily cause a head crash?
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Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 4, 2005 5:55:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

Bryon Lape <aintnoway@blahblahblah.com> wrote in
message news:D kjlk2-81s.ln1@gandalf.grey-net.com...

> I had a power spike zapped my PS, mobo, both harddrives, CD drive and CD
> writer.

You were warned about that grave dancing...

> The drives are all IDE and the mobo was an ASUS Slot 1. The CPU and memory
> survived.

Doesnt matter much, well past their useby date now.

> When I hook either of the harddrives to another mobo, they do not spin up nor
> is the mobo able to boot.

Likely they are slugging the 12V rail badly enough
that the power supply shuts down immediately.

> Removing drive from ribbon cable does allow boot from CD (not the dead one).
> Do I have any chance of getting data off these drives?

Yes, the drives may well be old enough that you can swap the logic
card with a known good identical model drive and get the data back.

> Will one of those harddrive data reclaim services work?

Yes, but you'd better be sitting down when they tell you the price.

Quite viable for a business, but not usually for a personal
desktop system and since its so old, its likely you're a pov.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 4, 2005 5:55:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

Rod Speed wrote:

> Bryon Lape <aintnoway@blahblahblah.com> wrote in
> message news:D kjlk2-81s.ln1@gandalf.grey-net.com...
>
>
>>I had a power spike zapped my PS, mobo, both harddrives, CD drive and CD
>>writer.
>
>
> You were warned about that grave dancing...
>
>
>>The drives are all IDE and the mobo was an ASUS Slot 1. The CPU and memory
>>survived.
>
>
> Doesnt matter much, well past their useby date now.
>
>
>>When I hook either of the harddrives to another mobo, they do not spin up nor
>>is the mobo able to boot.
>
>
> Likely they are slugging the 12V rail badly enough
> that the power supply shuts down immediately.
>

The PS doesn't shutdown on boot. The mobo just sits in POST waiting for
the second coming.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 4, 2005 5:55:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

> When I hook either of the harddrives to another mobo,
> they do not spin up nor is the mobo able to boot.
[...]
> The PS doesn't shutdown on boot. The mobo just sits in POST waiting for
> the second coming.

Can you see or smell any damage to thoe HDs' boards?

Most likely, only minimal damage (if any at all) damage was done to the
actual hard drive platters with the power surge. Some people claim to
have bought an identical drive and just swapped the boards onto the old
(zapped) drive, but if it doesn't work, that's more money down the drain.

Data recovery services should be able to recover most (if not all) of
your data, but they'll charge you an arm and a leg... maybe take your
firstborn too. Depending on how fast turnaround time you want, and how
much capacity the harddrives hold, they'll probably ask three- to four-
digits, USD.

I've been in your situation too. Luckily, I had backed up all my vital
data onto CD-RW's, but a couple months of work went *poof*

Good luck.
(and next time back up your data to a removable or network drive)

//Kevin
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 4, 2005 6:07:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage David Maynard <nospam@private.net> wrote:
> johns wrote:
>> Power spike THAT bad will have crashed your drive
>> head bigtime. I suspect the recording surface is ruined
>> too.
>>
>> johns
>>
>>

> Why would you conclude that a power spike must necessarily cause a
> head crash?

I don't see any reason for that either. Semiconductor damage is likely,
but the heads flat on an air-cushion generated by the spindle spinning.
To channel enough energy to the spindle to change the speed significantly
would need a very short burst with very high enery and that would likely
just vapozise the motor controller instead. The only option for actual
damage to the mechanics I see is if the pre-amplifiers near the heads are
purnt or vaporsed. I don't think that it is possible to do that, since
they are pritected by voltage regulators and filters.

Arno
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 4, 2005 7:21:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

Bryon Lape <aintnoway@blahblahblah.com> wrote in
message news:c9ulk2-kd4.ln1@gandalf.grey-net.com...
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Bryon Lape <aintnoway@blahblahblah.com> wrote

>>> I had a power spike zapped my PS, mobo, both harddrives, CD drive and CD
>>> writer.

Its more likely that the spike zapped the PS, or it just died,
and thats what killed most of what was powered from it.

>> You were warned about that grave dancing...

>>> The drives are all IDE and the mobo was an ASUS Slot 1. The CPU and memory
>>> survived.

>> Doesnt matter much, well past their useby date now.

>>> When I hook either of the harddrives to another mobo, they do not spin up
>>> nor is the mobo able to boot.

>> Likely they are slugging the 12V rail badly enough
>> that the power supply shuts down immediately.

> The PS doesn't shutdown on boot. The mobo just sits in POST waiting for the
> second coming.

How long did you wait ? Some motherboards do take a
surprisingly long time to decide that no viable hard drives are
present, but it should eventually decide that there arent any and
attempt to boot off the other drives listed in the boot sequence.

Maybe the dead drive is slugging the 12V rail bad enough
that it cant make any sense of the response its getting
from the other drives like the optical drives or something.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 4, 2005 8:06:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

Hardware data recovery services usually run around $1000 U.S. per harddrive.

--
DaveW



"Bryon Lape" <aintnoway@blahblahblah.com> wrote in message
news:D kjlk2-81s.ln1@gandalf.grey-net.com...
>I had a power spike zapped my PS, mobo, both harddrives, CD drive and CD
>writer. The drives are all IDE and the mobo was an ASUS Slot 1. The CPU
>and memory survived. When I hook either of the harddrives to another mobo,
>they do not spin up nor is the mobo able to boot. Removing drive from
>ribbon cable does allow boot from CD (not the dead one). Do I have any
>chance of getting data off these drives? Will one of those harddrive data
>reclaim services work?
>
> Thanks.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 4, 2005 10:35:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

cry!
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 5, 2005 2:41:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

on the back up front, I don't know how reliable it will be in the long run,
but I have a gmail account and back up my stuff there now. So far so good.

Avery
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 5, 2005 2:50:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

straw grasping is in order here, what i'd try is adding one as a slave to
working system and see if it shows up, then I'd try the other one.

I was recently successful doing that with a "dead" drive that wouldn't spin
up in the owner's computer. It was cryin' time again in PC city, etc., but
for some reason unknown to me, it spun up in my system and I was able to
grab the My Doc folder before it failed.

Another trick i read about, and tried without success, is freezing the drive
for an hour or so, and then putting it quickly in as a slave. They say when
this works you have about 5 minutes to get what you gotta get. The theory
is the freeze shrinks the metel and the stuck spindle is released until
expansion due to friction heat sticks it again.

Avery
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 5, 2005 2:50:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

~ Avery Anderson~ wrote:
> straw grasping is in order here, what i'd try is adding one as a
> slave to working system and see if it shows up, then I'd try the
> other one.
> I was recently successful doing that with a "dead" drive that
> wouldn't spin up in the owner's computer. It was cryin' time again
> in PC city, etc., but for some reason unknown to me, it spun up in my
> system and I was able to grab the My Doc folder before it failed.
>
> Another trick i read about, and tried without success, is freezing
> the drive for an hour or so, and then putting it quickly in as a
> slave. They say when this works you have about 5 minutes to get what
> you gotta get. The theory is the freeze shrinks the metel and the
> stuck spindle is released until expansion due to friction heat sticks
> it again.
> Avery

only thing is, how much do you want to gamble?

if you power up a failing drive you do stand the chance of getting back the
data or total screwing the platters.

also, the freezer trick may work, but beware of condensation forming on the
thawing parts. water+eletrical current=letting out the magic smoke. and
once the smoke is out, it is a real bitch putting it back in.

S
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 5, 2005 8:26:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3ds39dF6ic6vlU3@individual.net...
> I don't see any reason for that either. Semiconductor damage is likely,
> but the heads flat on an air-cushion generated by the spindle spinning.

I agree, and if I was just NOT going to pay anybody for attempted recovery I
would examine the circuit board and try to see if something is visibly
burned. There is a chance, I don't have any guess at probability, that only
1 component that is (possibly near the power input) burned up. Maybe
something as simple as a surface mount resistor-many devices do use
resistors as a cheap current limiting fuse more or less. I have not
repaired hard drives in this manner but I have repaired many other
electronics devices that had only 1 bad component damaged from power
problems, usually a semiconductor of some sort just as Arno Wagner
mentioned. If you replace one burned component and it works, sweet! If you
never fix it, you aren't out much except the data you gambled with-couldn't
have been THAT important if it wasn't backed up.

--Dan
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 5, 2005 9:13:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

> Another trick i read about, and tried without success, is freezing the drive
> for an hour or so, and then putting it quickly in as a slave. They say when
> this works you have about 5 minutes to get what you gotta get. The theory
> is the freeze shrinks the metel and the stuck spindle is released until
> expansion due to friction heat sticks it again.
>
> Avery

A better way of doing it, in my opinion, would be to get a plastic
sandwich bag, fill it with ice cubes, and sit it on top of your
defective hard drive inside your computer case. Wait fifteen
minutes, try turning on your computer and see if the drive spins
up. That way, if it works, the ice will keep it cold for a
sustained length of time. Dry ice would also work, and would be
colder. That's the route I'd go, anyway, rather than the
refrigerator route.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 5, 2005 9:36:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

johns <johns123xxx@xxxmoscow.com> wrote in
message news:D 59r0v$a5n$1@news.fsr.net...

> Power spike THAT bad will have crashed your drive head bigtime.

Unlikely. Its more likely that spike killed the PS and that
died badly, killing what was powered from it, or there
wasnt even a power spike at all and the PS just died.

> I suspect the recording surface is ruined too.

Very unlikely indeed.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 5, 2005 5:18:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

~ Avery Anderson~ <bogus@nowhere.net> wrote in
message news:8vSdncU_lsVxFOTfRVn-sA@comcast.com...

> straw grasping is in order here, what i'd try is adding one as a slave to
> working system and see if it shows up, then I'd try the other one.

He's already tried that.

> I was recently successful doing that with a "dead" drive that wouldn't spin up
> in the owner's computer. It was cryin' time again in PC city, etc., but for
> some reason unknown to me, it spun up in my system and I was able to grab the
> My Doc folder before it failed.

That's usually something quite basic, a defective power connector
in the original system. The metal tunnels the pins go into can open
up over time and not make good contact. If that is the case, you
dont need to put the hard drive in another system, just try one of
the other power connectors, like off one of the optical drives etc.

There are also a few drives that wont power up if the
drive type in the bios has more sectors than the drive
physically has, and the easy way to avoid that problem
is to ensure that the drive type entry is set to AUTO.

> Another trick i read about, and tried without success, is freezing the drive
> for an hour or so, and then putting it quickly in as a slave.

Unlikely to be relevant when the drives died when the power supply died.

> They say when this works you have about 5 minutes to get what you gotta get.
> The theory is the freeze shrinks the metel and the stuck spindle is released
> until expansion due to friction heat sticks it again.

It aint the spindle that sticks in modern drives. The
usual reason that freezing can help is a dry joint that
conducts when cold but not once its warmed up.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 5, 2005 5:49:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

"dg" <dan_gus@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote

> > I don't see any reason for that either. Semiconductor damage is likely,
> > but the heads flat on an air-cushion generated by the spindle spinning.
>
> I agree, and if I was just NOT going to pay anybody for attempted recovery I
> would examine the circuit board and try to see if something is visibly
> burned. There is a chance, I don't have any guess at probability, that only
> 1 component that is (possibly near the power input) burned up.

Unlikely, given the vast damage caused to multiple components such as power
supply, mobo, hard drives, and CD drives.

> Maybe
> something as simple as a surface mount resistor-many devices do use
> resistors as a cheap current limiting fuse more or less.

The damage is typical to that caused by lightning. The spike leading edge must
have been very steep (and high) in order to break through that many components
simultaneously, before any protection mechanism could intervene. Surge
protection components are ineffective against such impulses. Most chances are
that the defective component(s) will show no visible sign.

> I have not
> repaired hard drives in this manner but I have repaired many other
> electronics devices that had only 1 bad component damaged from power
> problems, usually a semiconductor of some sort just as Arno Wagner
> mentioned. If you replace one burned component and it works, sweet! If you
> never fix it, you aren't out much except the data you gambled with-couldn't
> have been THAT important if it wasn't backed up.

Could be worth trying to replace (swap) the electronics board of the HD.

Regards, Zvi
--
NetZ Computing Ltd. ISRAEL www.invircible.com www.ivi.co.il (Hebrew)
InVircible Virus Defense Solutions, ResQ and Data Recovery Utilities
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 5, 2005 5:49:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

Zvi Netiv <support@replace_with_domain.com> wrote:
> "dg" <dan_gus@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote

>> > I don't see any reason for that either. Semiconductor damage
>> > is likely, but the heads flat on an air-cushion generated by
>> > the spindle spinning.
>>
>> I agree, and if I was just NOT going to pay anybody for
>> attempted recovery I would examine the circuit board and try to
>> see if something is visibly burned. There is a chance, I don't
>> have any guess at probability, that only 1 component that is
>> (possibly near the power input) burned up.
>
> Unlikely, given the vast damage caused to multiple components
> such as power supply, mobo, hard drives, and CD drives.
>
>> Maybe something as simple as a surface mount resistor-many
>> devices do use resistors as a cheap current limiting fuse more
>> or less.
>
> The damage is typical to that caused by lightning. The spike
> leading edge must have been very steep (and high) in order to
> break through that many components simultaneously, before any
> protection mechanism could intervene. Surge protection
> components are ineffective against such impulses. Most chances
> are that the defective component(s) will show no visible sign.

Whatever. Reply authors cannot prove or disprove your assertions.




....
> Could be worth trying to replace (swap) the electronics board of
> the HD.
>
>
>
> Regards, Zvi
> --
> NetZ Computing Ltd. ISRAEL www.invircible.com www.ivi.co.il (Hebrew)
> InVircible Virus Defense Solutions, ResQ and Data Recovery Utilities
>
> Path: newssvr19.news.prodigy.com!newscon03.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
> From: Zvi Netiv <support replace_with_domain.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
> Subject: Re: Total harddrive failure...options
> Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 13:49:45 +0300
> Organization: NetZ Computing Ltd.
> Message-ID: <v1rj71piegu6iuqqf848odbg6bin3qp3iq 4ax.com>
> Reply-To: support@replace_with_domain.com
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Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 5, 2005 8:54:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

John Doe <jdoe@usenet.love.invalid> wrote:
> Zvi Netiv <support@replace_with_domain.com> wrote:
> > "dg" <dan_gus@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote
>
> >> > I don't see any reason for that either. Semiconductor damage
> >> > is likely, but the heads flat on an air-cushion generated by
> >> > the spindle spinning.
> >>
> >> I agree, and if I was just NOT going to pay anybody for
> >> attempted recovery I would examine the circuit board and try to
> >> see if something is visibly burned. There is a chance, I don't
> >> have any guess at probability, that only 1 component that is
> >> (possibly near the power input) burned up.
> >
> > Unlikely, given the vast damage caused to multiple components
> > such as power supply, mobo, hard drives, and CD drives.
> >
> >> Maybe something as simple as a surface mount resistor-many
> >> devices do use resistors as a cheap current limiting fuse more
> >> or less.
> >
> > The damage is typical to that caused by lightning. The spike
> > leading edge must have been very steep (and high) in order to
> > break through that many components simultaneously, before any
> > protection mechanism could intervene. Surge protection
> > components are ineffective against such impulses. Most chances
> > are that the defective component(s) will show no visible sign.
>
> Whatever. Reply authors cannot prove or disprove your assertions.

Just my experience in FMEA, an engineering discipline I was in charge of
sometime during my career (FMEA - Failure Mode and Effect Analysis).

Regards, Zvi
--
NetZ Computing Ltd. ISRAEL www.invircible.com www.ivi.co.il (Hebrew)
InVircible Virus Defense Solutions, ResQ and Data Recovery Utilities
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 6, 2005 2:37:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

Zvi Netiv <support@replace_with_domain.com> wrote:
> John Doe <jdoe@usenet.love.invalid> wrote:
>> Zvi Netiv <support@replace_with_domain.com> wrote:
>> > "dg" <dan_gus@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> >> I agree, and if I was just NOT going to pay anybody for
>> >> attempted recovery I would examine the circuit board and try
>> >> to see if something is visibly burned. There is a chance, I
>> >> don't have any guess at probability, that only 1 component
>> >> that is (possibly near the power input) burned up.
>> >
>> > Unlikely, given the vast damage caused to multiple components
>> > such as power supply, mobo, hard drives, and CD drives.
>> >
>> >> Maybe something as simple as a surface mount resistor-many
>> >> devices do use resistors as a cheap current limiting fuse
>> >> more or less.
>> >
>> > The damage is typical to that caused by lightning. The spike
>> > leading edge must have been very steep (and high) in order to
>> > break through that many components simultaneously, before any
>> > protection mechanism could intervene. Surge protection
>> > components are ineffective against such impulses. Most
>> > chances are that the defective component(s) will show no
>> > visible sign.
>>
>> Whatever. Reply authors cannot prove or disprove your
>> assertions.
>
> Just my experience in FMEA, an engineering discipline I was in
> charge of sometime during my career (FMEA - Failure Mode and
> Effect Analysis).

In fact, lightning can easily cause visible damage, you don't know
whether it did or not. Your argument is pointless, especially when
directed at reply authors.





>
> Regards, Zvi
> --
> NetZ Computing Ltd. ISRAEL www.invircible.com www.ivi.co.il (Hebrew)
> InVircible Virus Defense Solutions, ResQ and Data Recovery Utilities
>
>
> Path: newssvr19.news.prodigy.com!newscon03.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!newsfeed.telus.net!cyclone.bc.net!news.alt.net!sn-xit-04!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
> From: Zvi Netiv <support replace_with_domain.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
> Subject: Re: Total harddrive failure...options
> Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 16:54:18 +0300
> Organization: NetZ Computing Ltd.
> Message-ID: <nn8k71lpk35ugbrdledeolvni9ouh47g5q 4ax.com>
> Reply-To: support@replace_with_domain.com
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Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 10, 2005 1:05:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

"johns" <johns123xxx@xxxmoscow.com> wrote in message
news:D 59r0v$a5n$1@news.fsr.net...
> Power spike THAT bad will have crashed your drive
> head bigtime.

Nonsense, there is no electromechanical actuator the sends the head towards
the disk surface save a squib and plastic under the drive.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 11, 2005 4:27:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3dthjsF4g2tU1@individual.net
> ~ Avery Anderson~ <bogus@nowhere.net> wrote in
> message news:8vSdncU_lsVxFOTfRVn-sA@comcast.com...
>
> > straw grasping is in order here, what i'd try is adding one as a slave to
> > working system and see if it shows up, then I'd try the other one.
>
> He's already tried that.
>
> > I was recently successful doing that with a "dead" drive that wouldn't spin up
> > in the owner's computer. It was cryin' time again in PC city, etc., but for
> > some reason unknown to me, it spun up in my system and I was able to grab the
> > My Doc folder before it failed.
>
> That's usually something quite basic, a defective power connector
> in the original system. The metal tunnels the pins go into can open
> up over time and not make good contact. If that is the case, you
> dont need to put the hard drive in another system, just try one of
> the other power connectors, like off one of the optical drives etc.
>

> There are also a few drives that won't power up if the drive
> type in the bios has more sectors than the drive physically has,

Wotanidiot.

> and the easy way to avoid that problem is to ensure that the drive
> type entry is set to AUTO.
>
> > Another trick i read about, and tried without success, is freezing the drive
> > for an hour or so, and then putting it quickly in as a slave.
>
> Unlikely to be relevant when the drives died when the power supply died.
>
> > They say when this works you have about 5 minutes to get what you gotta get.
> > The theory is the freeze shrinks the metel and the stuck spindle is released
> > until expansion due to friction heat sticks it again.
>
> It aint the spindle that sticks in modern drives. The usual reason that freezing
> can help is a dry joint that conducts when cold but not once its warmed up.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
May 11, 2005 8:59:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Zvi Netiv <support@replace_with_domain.com> wrote:
> "dg" <dan_gus@hotmail.com> wrote:
[...]
> The damage is typical to that caused by lightning. The spike
> leading edge must have been very steep (and high) in order to break
> through that many components simultaneously, before any protection
> mechanism could intervene. Surge protection components are
> ineffective against such impulses.

That is untrue. Well designed surge protection mechanisms are faster
than the pulses can push enough energy into other components to damage
them. The principle is that: The surge protection device takes most
of the energy that comes through the line, thereby possible being
destroyed. The protected components are slower to take in the energy
and survive. The amount of energy you can push through, e.g., the
transformer in a PSU, is lmited, since it has to go through components
that can transfer only so much before failing .

Example: A standard transil protector diode can take 100A for 10us
without suffering damage. A standard spark-based surge protector can
take in the range of 10.000A for 10us. A standard metal-oxyde surge
protection resistor can take 100A for 10us. Reaction times for all these
devices are in the nanosecond range. If applied correctly all these
can be used to sucessfully protect a computer from any type of surges
that can come through a power outlet and will not set the house on fire
anyways.

The problem here is that many cheap surge-protection devices are not
well-designed and that many cheap PSUs do not even have them or only
have far too small ones. The spark-based protection device costs
something like 2 USD, fgor example. That is obviously too much for
ceaply designed electronics.

Arno
!