Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

D100 and Coolpix 5000 - Color NEF/RAW converts to B&W JPG ..

Last response: in Computer Peripherals
Share
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 5:54:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.misc (More info?)

Hi everyone...

I'm in a bit of a pickle - I took some photos with the D100 in RAW mode and
some photos with the Coolpix 5000 in RAW mode.

Only after doing so, did I find out that Nikon uses a proprietary format and
its not RAW, but NEF. I finally fished around in my Nikon box and found a
disk labelled Nikon View 6.0 and installed it.

It did allow me to VIEW the NEF images and they look great. (Whew!)

However, when I try to convert from NEF to JPG (the only conversion option
available), the NEF photos from the D100 converted beautifully. However,
the ones taken with the Coolpix 5000 come out as Black and White!??!?!?!

I had them all grouped together and all were converting at the same time, so
it makes sense to me that if it works for the D100 that the same run should
work with the Coolpix 5000.

I'll reiterate that the NEF images are all color and look fine inside of
Nikon View.

I tried upgrading the version of Nikon View from 6.0 (the latest that I
have) to 6.2.2 (the latest I'm aware of), and it demands a serial number
from the USA.

*sigh*

Being in Australia makes that a bit difficult...

Does anyone have version 6.2.2 of Nikon View and if so, can I get it from
you? It's not piracy as I own 4 Nikons - I just don't have an American
Serial Number.

OR - does anyone have a possible solution for my Color NEF to Black and
White JPG problem?

Naturally, this is due yesterday, so any information you can help me with
would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

-Joel
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 5:54:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.misc (More info?)

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:54:03 +1000, in rec.photo.digital "no way"
<dhi@dart.net.au> wrote:


>OR - does anyone have a possible solution for my Color NEF to Black and
>White JPG problem?

Try putting the 5000 images in a different directory and restart NV
then change to this directory. While these are "NEF" format, I believe
they are differing flavors of it. And where the 5000 is in the change
I don't know, as the raw capability was added in a firmware update,
IIRC.
________________________________________________________
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990 and 5700 at
http://EdwardGRuf.com
September 23, 2004 5:54:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.misc (More info?)

my understanding is that D100 uses formats compatible with NV5 upwards, but
that the '5000 uses an older version compatible with NV4 only.

there is something on the Nikon website about this.

I got caught with similar when I first got my D100 and thought that I could
continue without having to swap out the older NV. I also know that the very
latest NV 6.2.1 does resolve this, but 6.2.0 does not work with the older
formats.

apologies for the long link, but here's a good starting point...
http://nikoneurope-en.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nikoneurope_...**&p_li=





"no way" <dhi@dart.net.au> wrote in message
news:cis7fd$o7u$1@gnamma.connect.com.au...
> Hi everyone...
>
> I'm in a bit of a pickle - I took some photos with the D100 in RAW mode
> and
> some photos with the Coolpix 5000 in RAW mode.
>
> Only after doing so, did I find out that Nikon uses a proprietary format
> and
> its not RAW, but NEF. I finally fished around in my Nikon box and found a
> disk labelled Nikon View 6.0 and installed it.
>
> It did allow me to VIEW the NEF images and they look great. (Whew!)
>
> However, when I try to convert from NEF to JPG (the only conversion option
> available), the NEF photos from the D100 converted beautifully. However,
> the ones taken with the Coolpix 5000 come out as Black and White!??!?!?!
>
> I had them all grouped together and all were converting at the same time,
> so
> it makes sense to me that if it works for the D100 that the same run
> should
> work with the Coolpix 5000.
>
> I'll reiterate that the NEF images are all color and look fine inside of
> Nikon View.
>
> I tried upgrading the version of Nikon View from 6.0 (the latest that I
> have) to 6.2.2 (the latest I'm aware of), and it demands a serial number
> from the USA.
>
> *sigh*
>
> Being in Australia makes that a bit difficult...
>
> Does anyone have version 6.2.2 of Nikon View and if so, can I get it from
> you? It's not piracy as I own 4 Nikons - I just don't have an American
> Serial Number.
>
> OR - does anyone have a possible solution for my Color NEF to Black and
> White JPG problem?
>
> Naturally, this is due yesterday, so any information you can help me with
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Cheers!
>
> -Joel
>
>
>
September 23, 2004 1:31:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.misc (More info?)

"no way" <dhi@dart.net.au> wrote in message
news:cis7fd$o7u$1@gnamma.connect.com.au...
> Hi everyone...
>
> I'm in a bit of a pickle - I took some photos with the D100 in RAW mode
and
> some photos with the Coolpix 5000 in RAW mode.
>
> Only after doing so, did I find out that Nikon uses a proprietary format
and
> its not RAW, but NEF. I finally fished around in my Nikon box and found a
> disk labelled Nikon View 6.0 and installed it.
>
> It did allow me to VIEW the NEF images and they look great. (Whew!)
>
> However, when I try to convert from NEF to JPG (the only conversion option
> available), the NEF photos from the D100 converted beautifully. However,
> the ones taken with the Coolpix 5000 come out as Black and White!??!?!?!
>
> I had them all grouped together and all were converting at the same time,
so
> it makes sense to me that if it works for the D100 that the same run
should
> work with the Coolpix 5000.
>
> I'll reiterate that the NEF images are all color and look fine inside of
> Nikon View.
>
> I tried upgrading the version of Nikon View from 6.0 (the latest that I
> have) to 6.2.2 (the latest I'm aware of), and it demands a serial number
> from the USA.
>
> *sigh*
>
> Being in Australia makes that a bit difficult...
>
> Does anyone have version 6.2.2 of Nikon View and if so, can I get it from
> you? It's not piracy as I own 4 Nikons - I just don't have an American
> Serial Number.
>
> OR - does anyone have a possible solution for my Color NEF to Black and
> White JPG problem?
>
> Naturally, this is due yesterday, so any information you can help me with
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Cheers!
>
> -Joel

Does Camera Raw import in Photoshop CS deal with this ? At least then you
can choose TIFF and keep some of the detail in the images (if it does).
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 1:46:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.misc (More info?)

Uninstall all your NV .. and re-download from there.
6.2.1 is avail as a bundle with 6.2.2 as an update.

http://www.nikon-asia.com/downloads.php

=bob=

"no way" <dhi@dart.net.au> wrote in message
news:cis7fd$o7u$1@gnamma.connect.com.au...
> Hi everyone...

> I tried upgrading the version of Nikon View from 6.0 (the latest that I
> have) to 6.2.2 (the latest I'm aware of), and it demands a serial number
> from the USA.
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 3:44:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.misc (More info?)

[BnH] wrote:
> Uninstall all your NV .. and re-download from there.
> 6.2.1 is avail as a bundle with 6.2.2 as an update.
>
> http://www.nikon-asia.com/downloads.php
>
> =bob=
>
> "no way" <dhi@dart.net.au> wrote in message
> news:cis7fd$o7u$1@gnamma.connect.com.au...
>
>>Hi everyone...
>
>
>>I tried upgrading the version of Nikon View from 6.0 (the latest that I
>>have) to 6.2.2 (the latest I'm aware of), and it demands a serial number
>>from the USA.
>
>
>
One alternative you might like to explore is Irfanview. This program is
free and capable of converting your RAW files to any (graphic) format.

Ryadia
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 3:44:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.misc (More info?)

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:44:11 +1000, in rec.photo.digital Ryadia
<dontspam_ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote:

>One alternative you might like to explore is Irfanview. This program is
>free and capable of converting your RAW files to any (graphic) format.

When I tried it a couple of weeks ago with NEF files from my 5700 the
results were just awful.
________________________________________________________
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990 and 5700 at
http://EdwardGRuf.com
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 6:12:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.misc (More info?)

Ed Ruf wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:44:11 +1000, in rec.photo.digital Ryadia
> <dontspam_ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>One alternative you might like to explore is Irfanview. This program is
>>free and capable of converting your RAW files to any (graphic) format.
>
>
> When I tried it a couple of weeks ago with NEF files from my 5700 the
> results were just awful.
> ________________________________________________________
> Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
> See images taken with my CP-990 and 5700 at
> http://EdwardGRuf.com

I've never used it on anything but Canon RAWs and the results were first
rate. Maybe using a different DLL file than the default one would help?

Ryadia
September 23, 2004 8:28:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.misc (More info?)

"Ryadia" <dontspam_ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2rf0pqF19895uU1@uni-berlin.de...
Ed Ruf wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:44:11 +1000, in rec.photo.digital Ryadia
> <dontspam_ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>One alternative you might like to explore is Irfanview. This program is
>>free and capable of converting your RAW files to any (graphic) format.
>
>
> When I tried it a couple of weeks ago with NEF files from my 5700 the
> results were just awful.
> ________________________________________________________
> Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
> See images taken with my CP-990 and 5700 at
> http://EdwardGRuf.com

I've never used it on anything but Canon RAWs and the results were first
rate. Maybe using a different DLL file than the default one would help?

Ryadia

I have to confess that my recent attempts at NEF (nikon raw) conversions in
irfanview were pretty unappealing too (fast though! ;-) and I suspect Nikon
has done some nasty little trick to the raws to prevent non-Nikon software
from handling them... after all they sell their nef handler so I can hardly
see them making it easy for others :-(

Canon however handles fine, and in irfanview, bloody fast.

k
Anonymous
September 24, 2004 2:00:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.misc (More info?)

> I have to confess that my recent attempts at NEF (nikon raw)
> conversions in irfanview were pretty unappealing too (fast
> though! ;-) and I suspect Nikon has done some nasty little
> trick to the raws to prevent non-Nikon software from handling
> them... after all they sell their nef handler so I can hardly
> see them making it easy for others :-(

Irfanview works OK with CP5000 NEFs. Trouble is, there doesn't seem
to be any way to alter the white balance it adopts. The Photoshop
(Elements or 7) plug-in also works fine - I gather it is based on
the same engine. Unfortunately, Capture One and Qimage won't read
CP5000 NEFs, though Nikon Capture will (of course).

I recall reading that the real problem is that Nikon (and others) will
not publish ANY standards for their RAW files - and there is certainly
no commonly accepted standard. So after-market plugins to interpret
the various formats have to reverse-engineer the format.

Re Nikon View 6, it also works fine with CP5000 NEFs for me, and does
the best overall job. That's 6.0, so I don't know why you're getting
B&W.
Anonymous
September 25, 2004 10:50:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.misc (More info?)

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:54:03 +1000, in rec.photo.digital "no way"
<dhi@dart.net.au> wrote:


>I tried upgrading the version of Nikon View from 6.0 (the latest that I
>have) to 6.2.2 (the latest I'm aware of), and it demands a serial number
>from the USA.
>
>*sigh*

Try this link off tech support FAQ listing. I didn't need a serial # even
though I have 3. Watch the following long url for wrapping
http://support.nikontech.com/cgi-bin/nikonusa.cfg/php/e...*&p_li=
________________________________________________________
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990 and 5700 at
http://EdwardGRuf.com
Anonymous
September 26, 2004 7:41:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.misc (More info?)

Well - good info -thanks everyone!

I sent the files to a friend with Photoshop CS and - sure enough - he could
read it fine, it loaded in color. He then saved it as a windows BMP and a
TIFF. No problems. He then loaded them back into PS CS - they came in in
beautiful color! He used a generic file viewer and was able to view the
saved TIFF and BMP in color with no problem.

Soooo.... I bit the bullet and upgraded my PS7 to CS and now I am able to
read, modify and save those images.

*whew*

Fortunately, my client also uses Photoshop CS and they could read my files
just fine.

JUUUST in case, I did the shoot that afternoon (before I checked the board
here) and shot in TIFF mode.

It's amazing how the RAW/NEF is about 7.5 megs and the TIFF is 15.5 megs!
Amazing!

Do you lose a lot of information saving to TIFF instead of RAW? Now that I
can manipulate the images, I'll probably stick to raw and make a conversion
action script to convert the files in a directory to TIFF (if I need to),
and RAW/NEF is half the size.

Can someone explain to me the *real life* advantage to shooting RAW/NEF
images? Would you be throwing away a lot of vital information by using TIFF
instead? Since this last batch of photos were TIFF, I'd like to have
something intelligent to reply with when they question why I switched from
RAW/NEF to TIFF.

Thanks again...

-Joel


"Glen F" <gsfergusFURPHY@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:JuJ4d.1837$pl.44851@nasal.pacific.net.au...
> > I have to confess that my recent attempts at NEF (nikon raw)
> > conversions in irfanview were pretty unappealing too (fast
> > though! ;-) and I suspect Nikon has done some nasty little
> > trick to the raws to prevent non-Nikon software from handling
> > them... after all they sell their nef handler so I can hardly
> > see them making it easy for others :-(
>
> Irfanview works OK with CP5000 NEFs. Trouble is, there doesn't seem
> to be any way to alter the white balance it adopts. The Photoshop
> (Elements or 7) plug-in also works fine - I gather it is based on
> the same engine. Unfortunately, Capture One and Qimage won't read
> CP5000 NEFs, though Nikon Capture will (of course).
>
> I recall reading that the real problem is that Nikon (and others) will
> not publish ANY standards for their RAW files - and there is certainly
> no commonly accepted standard. So after-market plugins to interpret
> the various formats have to reverse-engineer the format.
>
> Re Nikon View 6, it also works fine with CP5000 NEFs for me, and does
> the best overall job. That's 6.0, so I don't know why you're getting
> B&W.
>
>
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 12:01:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.misc (More info?)

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:41:26 +1000, in rec.photo.digital "no way"
<dhi@dart.net.au> wrote:

>Soooo.... I bit the bullet and upgraded my PS7 to CS and now I am able to
>read, modify and save those images.

Too late, but fwiw, I saw a post on the Nikon Tech Support site stating
there was an update to the Adobe Camera Raw plugin
http://support.nikontech.com/cgi-bin/nikonusa.cfg/php/e...
________________________________________________________
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990 and 5700 at
http://EdwardGRuf.com
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 7:02:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.misc (More info?)

> It's amazing how the RAW/NEF is about 7.5 megs and the TIFF is
> 15.5 megs! Amazing!

Yep. And it's difficult to grasp the math. Basically, it goes
like this:

TIF:

The CP5000 Tif image is 2560 x 1920 pixels = 4,915,200 pixels.
These are 3-colour pixels, 8 bits Red, 8-bits blue and 8-bits
green, for 24 bits total per pixel.

So we have 4,915,200 x (8 + 8 + 8) = 117,964,800 bits of image data.
That's 14.0625 Megabytes (at 8 bits per byte and 1,048,576 bytes per
Megabyte). Add the tif format overhead and you should have about
14.5MB (15.5 seems too high).

NEF/RAW:

The CP5000 image sensor actually has 2574 x 1922 = 4,947,228
single-colour sensors - 1.24M of them behind red filters, 1.24M
behind blue, and the other 2.47M behind green, arranged in the
Bayer pattern. (see eg
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/digital-camera12.h... )

Each of those records 12 bits of brightness data, so there are
4,947,228 x 12 = 59,366,736 bits of raw image data, or 7.08MB.
Add some file format overhead, and you have the 7.8MB NEF (RAW)
file.

The conversion from raw to a tif is done by some black magic
called Bayer interpolation, which actually manages to generate
one 3-colour pixel for each 1-colour pixel. The process uses
the values of the surrounding pixels, which is why the tif pixel
count is slightly smaller than the raw count. The 1-colour
pixels at the edge of the sensor cannot be converted, because
they lack a full complement of surrounding pixels.

> Do you lose a lot of information saving to TIF instead of RAW?

Yes. Even though the file is larger, it contains less information,
because some was discarded in the conversion - most importantly in
down-sampling from the 12-bit to 8-bit grey scale. Unless you
seriously stuff up exposure or white balance, what's discarded is
generally considered to be unimportant. But if you do stuff up,
the RAW will give you a much better chance of recovering a useful
image.

> Can someone explain to me the *real life* advantage to shooting
> RAW/NEF images?

Basically, it's the above. Plus the greater flexibility in post-
processing, for those who need it.

> Would you be throwing away a lot of vital information by using
> TIFF instead?

Not really, except as stated. In fact, many would argue that
little is really lost in using a "fine" (lightly compressed) jpg
in preference to tif. The much smaller file size (~1.5MB) puts
much less stress on all parts of the data storage and handling
train.

But if you want the best possible results, shoot RAW.
!