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Help with options for data back-up Raid SCSI?? Just some i..

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June 24, 2005 5:36:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

In my home network.
2 pc's and 1 tablet PC
All ran through router (wired and wireless)
Tablet does not need a redundant back-up

Main PC stores video and images
other PC stores images.

I lost 2 hardrives in 2 days!!!

Main PC has SCSI 160 card with 4 drives and 1 80gig IDE for backup
Secondary PC has 3 IDE drives, no back-up.

I want something that will keep 2 copies at the same time.
Can I convert my SCSI machine to something like RAID??

Or should I buy dedicated SATA drives with a raid controller and start
from scratch??

This would not be a major problem if I kept up with my DVD back-ups...
so I need something automatic and redundant.

thanks!
June 24, 2005 7:35:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

I am doing video editiing and photo editing.
The SCSI drives are a big bonus!!!
June 24, 2005 7:37:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

My primary concern for backup (redundancy) is harddrive failure.

I keep my OS (winXP) and progam files and data on 3 separate drives.
I need a redundant real time back-up for my data drives
Related resources
June 24, 2005 7:47:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

I figure my apps and WinXP are safe on single SCSI drives. and if they
crash I can always reinstall from CD... (which isn't always a bad
thing)

How do I upgrade/replace my IDE data drives.
2 PC's with their own data.
I would like redundant data swapped between each PC.
My photos I work with on PC 1 are backed up on PC2
My video's I work with on PC 2 are backed up on PC1

SCSI SATA IDE RAID?? What do I need?
June 24, 2005 7:52:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

I have no back-up...
unless I start buring to DVD...

I could care less about an day/hour of work.
It is the total drive
June 24, 2005 7:54:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

Could I make 1 PC into a sort of Data server... that would store and
back it all up. (my wife could still use it to surf the web)

And then my main PC to do all the work???
June 24, 2005 8:01:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

The data drives that failed were from each PC.
These were both older (cheap) large capcity drives.
They were both IDE

My SCSI drives are older, and have never had problems.
The SCSI drives store WinXP and program files (one drive for each)
Large SCSI drives are expensive, so I chose IDE for storage.
SCIS is faster, so I have 15k rpm (smaller drives) for WinXP and
program files.
June 24, 2005 8:11:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

The threat I am worried about is HD failure..
Why wouldn't 2 PC's cover this??
June 24, 2005 8:12:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

Maybe cause my SCSI drives are 15k and my IDE are 7.2k
June 24, 2005 8:48:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

Your replies are great... but there are no off site locations.

Where is off-site going to be?
Your house?
A hole in my background?

I only own one location.... Thats my house.
June 24, 2005 11:20:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

They are networked together.
And they (will) have plenty of space
June 24, 2005 11:22:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

I always thought the access times on the SCSI drives were the lowest..

And then there is the low CPU use.
June 25, 2005 12:02:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

The CPU use is probably better now.
But DMA has nothing to do with SCSI's faster access times.
June 25, 2005 12:09:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

I now have all SCSI in 1 PC and all IDE in the other.
They have the same MB, CPU, same memory and same OS.

My SCSI is much faster, and is not bogged down in photo shop.

The IDE drivers are UDMA133 type 7200 RPM
My SCSI is 160 type 15k RPM
June 25, 2005 12:17:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

So there is no reason to upgrade the SCSI drives??

When I am in photoshop, I might open 50 files at once, 20meg each.
These run in batches, the SCSI system blows the IDE away.
June 25, 2005 12:18:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

Fujitsu MAM3367MC
Size: 36.7 GB Internal Drive
Speed: 15000 rpm
Access Time: 3.5 ms
Interface: Ultra160 SCSI
June 25, 2005 12:23:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

Western Digital SATA Raptor 74GB
apacity: 74 GB
RPM: 10,000
Interface: SATA
Cache: 8 MB
Read Seek: 5.2 ms
Write Seek: 5.9 ms
Latency: 2.99 ms
June 25, 2005 12:29:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

And it seems the price per MB is a bit cheaper for the SCSI...
(compared to the Raptor)
June 25, 2005 1:04:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

> I figure my apps and WinXP are safe on single SCSI drives. and if they
> crash I can always reinstall from CD... (which isn't always a bad
> thing)
>
> How do I upgrade/replace my IDE data drives.
> 2 PC's with their own data.
> I would like redundant data swapped between each PC.
> My photos I work with on PC 1 are backed up on PC2
> My video's I work with on PC 2 are backed up on PC1
>
> SCSI SATA IDE RAID?? What do I need?

You need a network connection between those two PCs and
enough storage (on each) to keep a copy of other PC data.
You might need to run them continously and schedule
automatic data transfer at night (XCOPY might be enough).
Thats all.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 1:51:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

On 24/06/05 21:36, Fishhead wrote:
> In my home network.
> 2 pc's and 1 tablet PC
> All ran through router (wired and wireless)
> Tablet does not need a redundant back-up
>
> Main PC stores video and images
> other PC stores images.
>
> I lost 2 hardrives in 2 days!!!
>
> Main PC has SCSI 160 card with 4 drives and 1 80gig IDE for backup
> Secondary PC has 3 IDE drives, no back-up.
>
> I want something that will keep 2 copies at the same time.
> Can I convert my SCSI machine to something like RAID??

What OS are you running?
Most serious OS's nowadays have software RAID 1 facilities, exit MS.
Or you could get yourself a nice SCSI Hostadpter with RAID
functionality, provided you can get the drivers for the OS you use.
That way you can keep the performance bonus SCSI gives you when you use
4 drives.

>
> Or should I buy dedicated SATA drives with a raid controller and start
> from scratch??

A definite step back IMHO.

>
> This would not be a major problem if I kept up with my DVD back-ups...
> so I need something automatic and redundant.
>
> thanks!
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 2:08:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

In message <1119645419.150386.80770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Fishhead <gregarpp@yahoo.com> writes
>In my home network.
>2 pc's and 1 tablet PC
>All ran through router (wired and wireless)
>Tablet does not need a redundant back-up
>
>Main PC stores video and images
>other PC stores images.
>
>I lost 2 hardrives in 2 days!!!
>
>Main PC has SCSI 160 card with 4 drives and 1 80gig IDE for backup
>Secondary PC has 3 IDE drives, no back-up.
>
>I want something that will keep 2 copies at the same time.
>Can I convert my SCSI machine to something like RAID??
>
>Or should I buy dedicated SATA drives with a raid controller and start
>from scratch??
>
>This would not be a major problem if I kept up with my DVD back-ups...
>so I need something automatic and redundant.
>
Try a UPS?

--
Jeremy Boden
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 2:23:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119645419.150386.80770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> In my home network.
> 2 pc's and 1 tablet PC
> All ran through router (wired and wireless)
> Tablet does not need a redundant back-up
>
> Main PC stores video and images
> other PC stores images.
>
> I lost 2 hardrives in 2 days!!!
>
> Main PC has SCSI 160 card with 4 drives and 1 80gig IDE for backup
> Secondary PC has 3 IDE drives, no back-up.
>
> I want something that will keep 2 copies at the same time.
> Can I convert my SCSI machine to something like RAID??

RAID is not as substitute for backup.

> Or should I buy dedicated SATA drives with a raid controller and start
> from scratch??

SATA and RAID are two different things. Yes you should use removable SATA
drives for backup and no they likely shouldn't be RAID.

> This would not be a major problem if I kept up with my DVD back-ups...

Use removable SATA drives instead of DVD for backups but DVDR backups will
work but are likely too small for convenient operation.

> so I need something automatic and redundant.

Actually you likely need neither. You need redundant backups where one is
always offsite but that's different from redundant storage like RAID 1 or
RAID 5. Having to manually initiate the backup nightly/periodically
shouldn't be too difficult. However automating that process to run
automatically is feasible.

Use something like Acronis TrueImage to create compressend image backups of
the HDs. Direct these image file to removable SATA HDs in trays like
KingWin KF-83(~$30). Get >=2 such SATA HDs and always keep one offsite.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 2:24:07 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Arie Bant" <abant@mail.com> wrote in message
news:D 9hro7$m1l$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> On 24/06/05 21:36, Fishhead wrote:
> > In my home network.
> > 2 pc's and 1 tablet PC
> > All ran through router (wired and wireless)
> > Tablet does not need a redundant back-up
> >
> > Main PC stores video and images
> > other PC stores images.
> >
> > I lost 2 hardrives in 2 days!!!
> >
> > Main PC has SCSI 160 card with 4 drives and 1 80gig IDE for backup
> > Secondary PC has 3 IDE drives, no back-up.
> >
> > I want something that will keep 2 copies at the same time.
> > Can I convert my SCSI machine to something like RAID??
>
> What OS are you running?
> Most serious OS's nowadays have software RAID 1 facilities, exit MS.

NO, RAID 1 is inexpensively available using MS OSs.

> Or you could get yourself a nice SCSI Hostadpter with RAID

SCSI is very expensive for this purpose. ATA RAID is much less expensive
and is the way to go IF realtime redundancy is needed. Usually such
realtime redundancy is not needed in a home network. HOWEVER even less
expensive backup IS needed.

> functionality, provided you can get the drivers for the OS you use.
> That way you can keep the performance bonus SCSI gives you when you use
> 4 drives.

What bonus does SCSI provide on a home network....none maybe?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 2:24:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Jeremy Boden" <jeremy@jboden.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1$RHV3DVZHvCFwf$@jboden.demon.co.uk...

> >This would not be a major problem if I kept up with my DVD back-ups...
> >so I need something automatic and redundant.
> >
> Try a UPS?

A UPS is NOT a replacement for redundant arrays like RAID 1or RAID 5. A UPS
is NOT a replacement for backup.
June 25, 2005 2:37:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

> They are networked together.
> And they (will) have plenty of space

Then, just create backup scripts and schedule them.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 2:49:29 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119652542.781687.256230@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I am doing video editiing and photo editing.
> The SCSI drives are a big bonus!!!

NO!! There is NO bonus when using SCSI over ATA when doing video
editiing and photo editing. The only place SCSI has an advantage is when
doing saturated small record random I/O like on a server.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 2:49:38 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119652655.822081.197370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> My primary concern for backup (redundancy) is harddrive failure.


The question is whether you concern is primarily for the last hour's/day's
work where RAID helps. OR whether your bigger concern is losing the entire
contents of the HD where backup is the solution. Until you are covered by a
good backup scheme any thought of RAID is a waste of time.

> I keep my OS (winXP) and progam files and data on 3 separate drives.
> I need a redundant real time back-up for my data drives

NO, you need backup. Then you can think about redundancy.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 2:59:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119653235.395613.160350@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I figure my apps and WinXP are safe on single SCSI drives. and if they
> crash I can always reinstall from CD... (which isn't always a bad
> thing)

Usually a very labor intensive and therefore expensive proposition. Keep a
regular image backup of the OS HD as you'll find that much valuable setup,
update, configuration and tuning is kept there.

> How do I upgrade/replace my IDE data drives.
> 2 PC's with their own data.
> I would like redundant data swapped between each PC.
> My photos I work with on PC 1 are backed up on PC2
> My video's I work with on PC 2 are backed up on PC1
>
> SCSI SATA IDE RAID?? What do I need?


You need nightly/periodic backups to a removable media and keep a copy
offsite. The best option there is a couple of removable ATA HDs in shock
mounted trays like KingWin KF-83. Keeping two copies on different PCs in
the same room covers VERY FEW threats.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 2:59:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119653538.846167.225170@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I have no back-up...
> unless I start buring to DVD...
>
> I could care less about an day/hour of work.
> It is the total drive

EXACTLY what I've been telling you.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 2:59:44 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119653693.481623.53210@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Could I make 1 PC into a sort of Data server... that would store and
> back it all up. (my wife could still use it to surf the web)

Why do you insist on avoiding the obvious solution.. REDUNDANT OFFSITE
BACKUPS.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 3:09:44 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119652799.031453.280850@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> The data drives that failed were from each PC.
> These were both older (cheap) large capcity drives.
> They were both IDE
>
> My SCSI drives are older, and have never had problems.


They will eventually. BUT that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

> The SCSI drives store WinXP and program files (one drive for each)
> Large SCSI drives are expensive, so I chose IDE for storage.
> SCIS is faster, so I have 15k rpm (smaller drives)

Triple cost small 15K RPM SCSI HDs only outperform single top ATA HDs by
a small amount in video/photo editing performance. ATA RAID 0 is big and
inexpensive and blows a single expensive 15K RPM SCSI HD away in video
editing and photo editing performance. You bought the myth of SCSI.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 3:09:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:Yo0ve.1020459$w62.661905@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1119652799.031453.280850@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > The data drives that failed were from each PC.
> > These were both older (cheap) large capcity drives.
> > They were both IDE
>
> > The SCSI drives store WinXP and program files (one drive for each)
> > Large SCSI drives are expensive, so I chose IDE for storage.
> > SCIS is faster, so I have 15k rpm (smaller drives)
>
> Triple cost small 15K RPM SCSI HDs only outperform single top ATA HDs by
> a small amount in video/photo editing performance. ATA RAID 0 is big and
> inexpensive and blows a single expensive 15K RPM SCSI HD away in video
> editing and photo editing performance. You bought the myth of SCSI.
>
Clueless. He uses SCSI for the OS, not video.

The prefered configuration for video/audio production is independent 7200 drives, not RAID 0.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 3:35:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119654691.299790.184170@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> The threat I am worried about is HD failure..
> Why wouldn't 2 PC's cover this??

Common malware(virus/trojan/hacker/etc.) attack or theft or physical
calamity to the room including lightening/power surge are primary threats to
the HDs. OFFSITE BACKUP covers all these AND it covers a HD failure.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 3:39:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119654770.229641.188760@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Maybe cause my SCSI drives are 15k and my IDE are 7.2k


Late model top 7200K RPM ATA are faster in single user workstation
including video/photo editing usage than an early 15K RPM SCSI HD. Then
there's the 10K RPM ATA Raptor.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 3:46:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

In article <1119645419.150386.80770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
gregarpp@yahoo.com says...

> In my home network.
> 2 pc's and 1 tablet PC
> All ran through router (wired and wireless)
> Tablet does not need a redundant back-up
>
> Main PC stores video and images
> other PC stores images.
>
> I lost 2 hardrives in 2 days!!!
>
> Main PC has SCSI 160 card with 4 drives and 1 80gig IDE for backup
> Secondary PC has 3 IDE drives, no back-up.

Not good.

Suggest tape-based system, either DLT-IV or SuperDLT.

Keep the peace(es).



--
Dr. Anton T. Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute.
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR,
kyrrin (a/t) bluefeathertech[d=o=t]calm -- www.bluefeathertech.com
"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped
with surreal ports?"
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 3:46:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 9i4kb01qbc@enews4.newsguy.com...
> "Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:Yo0ve.1020459$w62.661905@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > "Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1119652799.031453.280850@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > The data drives that failed were from each PC.
> > > These were both older (cheap) large capcity drives.
> > > They were both IDE
> >
> > > The SCSI drives store WinXP and program files (one drive for each)
> > > Large SCSI drives are expensive, so I chose IDE for storage.
> > > SCIS is faster, so I have 15k rpm (smaller drives)
> >
> > Triple cost small 15K RPM SCSI HDs only outperform single top ATA HDs
by
> > a small amount in video/photo editing performance. ATA RAID 0 is big
and
> > inexpensive and blows a single expensive 15K RPM SCSI HD away in video
> > editing and photo editing performance. You bought the myth of SCSI.
> >
> Clueless. He uses SCSI for the OS, not video.

Gisin troll gets it wrong as usual. Expensive SCSI for the OS drive in
single user workstation usage contributes little to performance over an
ATA HD.

> The prefered configuration for video/audio production is independent 7200
drives, not RAID 0.

Even idiots get a true/false right half the time.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 3:46:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:iX0ve.1020626$w62.687293@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:D 9i4kb01qbc@enews4.newsguy.com...
> > "Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:Yo0ve.1020459$w62.661905@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > >
> > > Triple cost small 15K RPM SCSI HDs only outperform single top ATA HDs
> by
> > > a small amount in video/photo editing performance. ATA RAID 0 is big
> and
> > > inexpensive and blows a single expensive 15K RPM SCSI HD away in video
> > > editing and photo editing performance. You bought the myth of SCSI.
> > >
> > Clueless. He uses SCSI for the OS, not video.
>
> Gisin troll gets it wrong as usual. Expensive SCSI for the OS drive in
> single user workstation usage contributes little to performance over an
> ATA HD.
>
I didn't say anything about perfomance. But 15K is faster than any IDE for power users.

Same old troll song. Clueless as ever.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 3:50:53 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119656891.110140.18920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Your replies are great... but there are no off site locations.
>
> Where is off-site going to be?

Car trunk. Relative's/friend's house. Desk/locker at work. Storage unit.
ETC.

> Your house?
> A hole in my background?
>
> I only own one location.... Thats my house.
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 6:56:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 9i8s7020ii@enews4.newsguy.com...

> > Gisin troll gets it wrong as usual. Expensive SCSI for the OS drive in
> > single user workstation usage contributes little to performance over an
> > ATA HD.
> >
> I didn't say anything about perfomance. But 15K is faster than any IDE for
power users.

A triple cost late model 15kRPM SCSI HD is a little faster BUT the much less
expensive dual drive ATA RAID 0 is faster than any single drive 15K RPM
solution.

> Same old troll song. Clueless as ever.
>
>
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 7:03:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119666156.883624.278350@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I always thought the access times on the SCSI drives were the lowest..


Higher RPM gives faster access time. Access time is only a part of a HD's
performance. Same RPM SCSI doesn't give significantly better performance
in single user workstation usage. SCSI excels in saturated server I/O
because of the onboard command queuing. You have listed many of the basic
elements of the SCSI myth that has been perpetrated on the public by SCSI
zealots who derive income from SCSI configurations.

> And then there is the low CPU use.


No lower than current ATA....another SCSI myth(flat out lie)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 7:03:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:XP3ve.355823$cg1.172110@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> Higher RPM gives faster access time. Access time is only a part of a HD's
> performance. Same RPM SCSI doesn't give significantly better performance
> in single user workstation usage. SCSI excels in saturated server I/O
> because of the onboard command queuing. You have listed many of the basic
> elements of the SCSI myth that has been perpetrated on the public by SCSI
> zealots who derive income from SCSI configurations.
>
Just like the deathstar (75GXP) myth, right Ron?
Remember the "IBM slime cult" that was responsible for that mth?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 7:04:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119668544.194432.175180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> The CPU use is probably better now.
> But DMA has nothing to do with SCSI's faster access times.

What does have to do with myths?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 7:12:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119668958.790008.8400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> I now have all SCSI in 1 PC and all IDE in the other.
> They have the same MB, CPU, same memory and same OS.
>
> My SCSI is much faster, and is not bogged down in photo shop.
>
> The IDE drivers are UDMA133 type 7200 RPM

Try an SATA Raptor and you wont be able to sense any performance difference
between the two machines simply by using them.

> My SCSI is 160 type 15k RPM

Any such statement is meaningless without specifying drive model.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 7:40:06 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119669424.225998.20720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> So there is no reason to upgrade the SCSI drives??

No cost efficient reason.

> When I am in photoshop, I might open 50 files at once, 20meg each.
> These run in batches, the SCSI system blows the IDE away.

Then get a WDC Raptor or two(RAID 0).
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 7:56:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119669508.723878.138410@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Fujitsu MAM3367MC
> Size: 36.7 GB Internal Drive
> Speed: 15000 rpm
> Access Time: 3.5 ms
> Interface: Ultra160 SCSI

An older slower model and how much did you pay when it first came out?
The Maxtor Atlas 15K II is the hot one now.

What model 7200 RPM ATA drive?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 7:57:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119669789.425569.63870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Western Digital SATA Raptor 74GB
> apacity: 74 GB
> RPM: 10,000
> Interface: SATA
> Cache: 8 MB
> Read Seek: 5.2 ms
> Write Seek: 5.9 ms
> Latency: 2.99 ms

Sustained transfer rate at the beginning for the SATA Raptor is 72MB/sec.
The SCSI MAM3367MC transfer rate at the beginning is 57 MB/sec.

Consider the cost of current models of each and don't forget to include the
cost of the controllers.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 7:57:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119670161.098629.176630@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> And it seems the price per MB is a bit cheaper for the SCSI...
> (compared to the Raptor)


NO!!
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 8:08:31 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

Gisin lunatic rantings always the same as so many have noticed..


"Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 9ijqq02e9g@enews4.newsguy.com...
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 10:54:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

Fishhead <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119645419.150386.80770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> In my home network.
> 2 pc's and 1 tablet PC
> All ran through router (wired and wireless)
> Tablet does not need a redundant back-up

> Main PC stores video and images
> other PC stores images.

> I lost 2 hardrives in 2 days!!!

On the same system PC ? If it was, there's likely a reason for that.

> Main PC has SCSI 160 card with 4 drives and 1 80gig IDE
> for backup Secondary PC has 3 IDE drives, no back-up.

> I want something that will keep 2 copies at the same time.
> Can I convert my SCSI machine to something like RAID??

Yes, but thats got real downsides for backup.

It doesnt help if you need the backup for a virus
infection, user stupidity, fire, theft, flood etc.

> Or should I buy dedicated SATA drives with
> a raid controller and start from scratch??

Really depends on what you want to do about backup and raid.

> This would not be a major problem if I kept up with my DVD back-ups...
> so I need something automatic and redundant.

It isnt hard to do completely automated backup to a SATA drive.
That will fix the problem with a virus or user stupidity.

If its a removable drive, and you are prepared to take the
drive offsite and have another thats used when one is offsite,
that will fix the problem with fire/theft/flood etc too.

Not ideal if you are prone to dropping things tho.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
June 25, 2005 10:54:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3i3a95Fjhm8gU1@individual.net...

> > This would not be a major problem if I kept up with my DVD back-ups...
> > so I need something automatic and redundant.
>
> It isnt hard to do completely automated backup to a SATA drive.

Speedo gets it wrong again. Automated image backups to SATA drives are
easy.

> That will fix the problem with a virus or user stupidity.
>
> If its a removable drive, and you are prepared to take the
> drive offsite and have another thats used when one is offsite,
> that will fix the problem with fire/theft/flood etc too.
>
> Not ideal if you are prone to dropping things tho.

Use a shock mounted tray like a KingWin KF-83 and get a padded carrying
case. That reduces the "drop threat" to very acceptable levels.
Non-spinning current HDs are not all that shock sensitive. They are shipped
all over the world daily in two layers of bubble wrap with few problems.
!