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What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?

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Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 4, 2005 6:12:27 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Hello
What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 4, 2005 2:15:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"kopn" <kopn@bk.ru> wrote in message
news:1120468347.105931.325460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hello
> What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?

For ATA WDC, Seagate, Hitachi & Maxtor are all good.

For SCSI Seagate, Hitachi, Fujitsu & Maxtor.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 4, 2005 2:21:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

kopn wrote:

> Hello
> What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?

Nobody. ASSUME that your drive is going to fail tomorrow and behave
accordingly.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Related resources
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 4, 2005 6:20:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

kopn wrote:
>
> Hello
> What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?

Seagate. Seagate. Seagate.

Most definitely avoid Maxtor and Hitachi - although I don't have much
experience of Maxtor's enterprise drives, so I can't comment.

Nearly all my data recovery work comes in the form of Maxtor, Hitachi,
Western Digital, the old Quantum drives, and a mixture of others -
pretty much in that order.

Six months ago, the positions of the first two in the list were
reversed.


Odie
--
Retrodata
www.retrodata.co.uk
Globally Local Data Recovery Experts
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 4, 2005 8:20:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"kopn" <kopn@bk.ru> wrote in message
news:1120468347.105931.325460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hello
> What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?

In terms of reliability - it's the one you purchased 10 years ago that's
still running.

In terms of cost - it's the one you buy next year.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 4, 2005 8:22:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Odie Ferrous" <odie_ferrous@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42C937AB.906F98DB@hotmail.com...
> Six months ago, the positions of the first two in the list were
> reversed.

Perhaps in six months time they will be different again :-)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 4, 2005 9:17:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Odie Ferrous" <odie_ferrous@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42C937AB.906F98DB@hotmail.com...
> kopn wrote:
>>
>> Hello
>> What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?
>
> Seagate. Seagate. Seagate.
>
> Most definitely avoid Maxtor and Hitachi - although I don't have much
> experience of Maxtor's enterprise drives, so I can't comment.


What's clear is that you have little experience of relevance regarding HDs.
Ignore this Seagate shill.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 1:34:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <1120468347.105931.325460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"kopn" <kopn@bk.ru> wrote:

> Hello
> What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?

Seagate currently offers 5 year warranties for almost all their drives
(1 year for external USB). Most other manufacturers have shorter
warranties (1-3 years). Since a longer warranty without corresponding
product longevity is likely to cost Seagate serious money, I am inclined
to think they have high confidence in their product. This is good
enough reason for me to buy Seagate exclusively right now. The cost
differential is minor between brands so I opt for Seagate.

Incidentally, I do not believe they are immune to failure & back up
religiously - In most cases returning a drive under warranty would be
small consolation relative to data loss especially with todays very
large drives.

Roland
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 3:12:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Thanks for your replies.
What is the cheapest (in terms of 1 mb) way to back up?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 3:16:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Thanks for your reply.
If I ASSUMEd that my drive was going to fail tomorrow I would use
mirror drives because I want to retain files which I created today.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 3:20:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Thanks for your reply.
What is POH?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 3:30:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Thanks for your reply.
In Russia Seagate costs much more than other brands.
What is the cheapest way (in terms of 1 mb) of back up?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 6:12:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Joe Doe wrote:

> In article <1120468347.105931.325460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "kopn" <kopn@bk.ru> wrote:
>
>> Hello
>> What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?
>
> Seagate currently offers 5 year warranties for almost all their drives
> (1 year for external USB). Most other manufacturers have shorter
> warranties (1-3 years). Since a longer warranty without corresponding
> product longevity is likely to cost Seagate serious money, I am inclined
> to think they have high confidence in their product.

That is exactly the perception that the Seagate marketing department wants
you to have.

Simple fact--failing in less than five years is unusual for disks of any
brand.

> This is good
> enough reason for me to buy Seagate exclusively right now. The cost
> differential is minor between brands so I opt for Seagate.
>
> Incidentally, I do not believe they are immune to failure & back up
> religiously - In most cases returning a drive under warranty would be
> small consolation relative to data loss especially with todays very
> large drives.
>
> Roland

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 6:56:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Thanks for your reply.
I would have to remember what files and folder I backed up last time,
what files and folders have changed and what files and folders have
been created since then, find them and copy to a DVD to make a new back
up. This is a time consuming task.
Internal oem drives are less expensive than an external hard drive.
What do you think about other HDD brands (Samsung...) than the
mentioned?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 7:09:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Thanks for your reply.
Does Ghost compress 7 times? Why to fit a weeks worth of backups on the
same drive, why to keep 7 copies of the same drive?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 7:12:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Thanks for your reply, Ron.
Fire, theft, malicious or buggy SW causing my data loss are less
probable than the drive failure.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 7:15:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Thanks.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 7:19:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Thanks for your reply, Rod.
Do you just copy (add) newer files and folders to a DVD for back up?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 7:48:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Joe Doe" <None@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:None-DC7AA4.21342104072005@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
> In article <1120468347.105931.325460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "kopn" <kopn@bk.ru> wrote:
>
>> Hello
>> What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?
>
> Seagate currently offers 5 year warranties for almost all their drives
> (1 year for external USB). Most other manufacturers have shorter
> warranties (1-3 years). Since a longer warranty without corresponding
> product longevity is likely to cost Seagate serious money, I am inclined
> to think they have high confidence in their product.

Nope, the fact is that most current HD models will last 5 years. Each year
a drive is in the field does cost the mfg some money and each year is not a
lot more expensive than the previous year until the drive life knee in the
curve is reached. Seagate began the 5 year warranty suddenly by
proclamation and it covered drives already mfged and in distribution. Those
ATA model had 1 or 3 years warranty at the time but all had a design life of
5 years as do most all HDs models from all mfgs then and today. Warranty
length is a marketing and price point decision and has little to do with
reliability.

> This is good
> enough reason for me to buy Seagate exclusively right now. The cost
> differential is minor between brands so I opt for Seagate.

The WDC SATA Raptor has a 5 year warranty.

Do you derive income from Seagate or selling its products?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 8:22:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

kopn <kopn@bk.ru> wrote in message
news:1120468347.105931.325460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?

There is no such animal.

The cost can vary a lot with rebates etc, and its impossible to
get a real handle on reliability. No one except the manufacturer
sees enough drives to be able to say much about reliability.
July 5, 2005 8:22:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

> The cost can vary a lot with rebates etc, and its impossible to
> get a real handle on reliability. No one except the manufacturer
> sees enough drives to be able to say much about reliability.

Manufacturers usually publish MTBF or AFR (at certain POH) rate
as a measure of reliability.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 8:24:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

This is the clown that is so stupid it never even noticed
the problem with the IBM 75GXP, even when it was
so unreliable it produced a full class action suit.

He clearly wouldnt have a clue about hard drive reliability.


Ron Reaugh <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:M_7ye.385794$cg1.376@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> kopn <kopn@bk.ru> wrote

>> What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?

> For ATA WDC, Seagate, Hitachi & Maxtor are all good.

> For SCSI Seagate, Hitachi, Fujitsu & Maxtor.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 8:27:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Odie Ferrous <odie_ferrous@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:42C937AB.906F98DB@hotmail.com...
> kopn wrote

>> What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?

> Seagate. Seagate. Seagate.

> Most definitely avoid Maxtor and Hitachi - although I don't have
> much experience of Maxtor's enterprise drives, so I can't comment.

> Nearly all my data recovery work comes in the form of
> Maxtor, Hitachi, Western Digital, the old Quantum drives,
> and a mixture of others - pretty much in that order.

Doesnt prove much if those that buy particular brands do full
backup more often and so never need to use you when the drive dies.

Its likely that those buying the cheapest drives do the least backup.

> Six months ago, the positions of the first two in the list were reversed.

The technical term for that is 'pathetically inadequate sample'
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 8:29:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

CWatters <colin.watters@pandoraBOX.be> wrote in message
news:andye.137098$Ts1.7303283@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
> Odie Ferrous <odie_ferrous@hotmail.com> wrote

>> Six months ago, the positions of the
>> first two in the list were reversed.

> Perhaps in six months time they will be different again :-)

In spades with the length of time most keep a drive for |-)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 10:55:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"kopn" <kopn@bk.ru> wrote in message
news:1120544219.283772.238250@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for your reply.
> If I ASSUMEd that my drive was going to fail tomorrow I would use
> mirror drives because I want to retain files which I created today.

I wouldn't. That way you only get one extra copy.

Why not use a program like Ghost to do a full image backup every night? You
could probably fit a weeks worth of backups on the same drive.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 11:21:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:GPfye.2093$is5.203606@news20.bellglobal.com...

>> The cost can vary a lot with rebates etc, and its impossible to
>> get a real handle on reliability. No one except the manufacturer
>> sees enough drives to be able to say much about reliability.

> Manufacturers usually publish MTBF or AFR (at certain POH) rate

Yes, but thats useless as a measure of reliability.

> as a measure of reliability.

Fraid not. Most obviously with the IBM 75GXP and Fujitsu
MPGs which did turn out to be much less reliable than other
manufacturer's similar drives with identical MTBFs and AFRs.
July 5, 2005 11:21:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

> > Manufacturers usually publish MTBF or AFR (at certain POH) rate
>
> Yes, but thats useless as a measure of reliability.
>
> > as a measure of reliability.
>
> Fraid not. Most obviously with the IBM 75GXP and Fujitsu
> MPGs which did turn out to be much less reliable than other
> manufacturer's similar drives with identical MTBFs and AFRs.

I think you confuse reliability with dishonest marketing practices
of some companies. It is possible that product manufactured at
later date has lower reliability than originally claimed. It is up to
the manufacturer to disclose that information and recall faulty
product, reimburse unfortunate clients or keep quiet.
Manufacturer has an obligation to check product quality on a
regular basis, to make sure it has required properties.

It is like saying that stress analysis is useless because it has
been an accident where a modern bridge collapsed.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 12:04:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"kopn" <kopn@bk.ru> wrote in message
news:1120544219.283772.238250@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for your reply.
> If I ASSUMEd that my drive was going to fail tomorrow I would use
> mirror drives because I want to retain files which I created today.

Mirroring protects against a single drive failure and the files created in
some time period since the last backup. Single drive failure is NOT the
ONLY cause of data loss. Fire, theft, malicious or buggy SW etc. are all
threats.

Mirroring does NOT take the place of backup.

>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 12:05:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"kopn" <kopn@bk.ru> wrote in message
news:1120545033.143913.278650@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for your reply.
> In Russia Seagate costs much more than other brands.
> What is the cheapest way (in terms of 1 mb) of back up?

Big removable ATA HDs are the best solution generally. Keep it off site.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 1:24:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

kopn wrote:

> Thanks for your reply.
> If I ASSUMEd that my drive was going to fail tomorrow I would use
> mirror drives because I want to retain files which I created today.

Exactly. There is no disk that is sufficiently reliable to be used to hold
without backup data that you can't afford to lose.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 4:09:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:F3lye.2371$is5.254091@news20.bellglobal.com...

>>> Manufacturers usually publish MTBF or AFR (at certain POH) rate

>> Yes, but thats useless as a measure of reliability.

>>> as a measure of reliability.

>> Fraid not. Most obviously with the IBM 75GXP and Fujitsu
>> MPGs which did turn out to be much less reliable than other
>> manufacturer's similar drives with identical MTBFs and AFRs.

> I think you confuse reliability with dishonest
> marketing practices of some companies.

'think' again. I made no comment what so ever about marketing
practices and JUST commented on whether there is any correlation
between MTBFs and AFRs and real experienced poor reliability
of a couple of models compared with their competitor's products
which had the SAME MTBFs and AFRs and MUCH worse reliability.

> It is possible that product manufactured at later
> date has lower reliability than originally claimed.

And the reality is that MTBFs and AFRs have NOTHING
to do with actual failure rates actually achieved.

> It is up to the manufacturer to disclose that information and recall
> faulty product, reimburse unfortunate clients or keep quiet.

Separate issue entirely.

> Manufacturer has an obligation to check product quality
> on a regular basis, to make sure it has required properties.

What they actually do is observer the field failure rate.

> It is like saying that stress analysis is useless because
> it has been an accident where a modern bridge collapsed.

Nope, nothing like. MTBFs and AFRs with hard
drives arent something that is actually measured.

That should be obvious from the FACT that MTBFs and AFRs
dont change over time as the manufacturer observes the field
failure rate actually seen with that particular model.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 5:04:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <dad9dv11om4@news3.newsguy.com>,
"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:

> Joe Doe wrote:
>
> > In article <1120468347.105931.325460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > "kopn" <kopn@bk.ru> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello
> >> What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?
> >
> > Seagate currently offers 5 year warranties for almost all their drives
> > (1 year for external USB). Most other manufacturers have shorter
> > warranties (1-3 years). Since a longer warranty without corresponding
> > product longevity is likely to cost Seagate serious money, I am inclined
> > to think they have high confidence in their product.
>
> That is exactly the perception that the Seagate marketing department wants
> you to have.
>
> Simple fact--failing in less than five years is unusual for disks of any
> brand.
>



Well if it involves no cost it would be easy for the competitor to match
this - why should they loose a marketing advantage? Hard drives are a
commodity business that is quite brutal in competition. Providing the
warranty reflects a real cost and risk exposure. The fact that the
competition chooses not to match tells you they think they do not want
this cost or risk exposure. Secondly, in a commodity business where you
compete on price having the shorter warranty might allow a company to
specify poorer quality parts and be able to sell at a lower price
knowing full well that the design life is now shorter.

I have had at least three Maxtor drives fail between 3-4 years (just out
of warranty).

Roland
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 5:56:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"kopn" <kopn@bk.ru> wrote in message
news:1120557378.959427.281730@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for your reply.
> I would have to remember what files and folder I backed up last time,
> what files and folders have changed and what files and folders have
> been created since then, find them and copy to a DVD to make a new back
> up. This is a time consuming task.

No there are lots of programs that can do "incremental" or "differential"
backups automatically.

> Internal oem drives are less expensive than an external hard drive.

but if you had a power supply failure BOTH internal drives could be toast.
At least with an external drive you have some redundancy.

Personally I would assemble your own external drive box. Get one designed
for a 5.25" drive and fit a 3.5" hard drive in it of your own choosing. That
way it will run cool.

I quite like these drive boxes but they can be hard to find....

See U7-1 or U6-1
http://www.stardom.com.tw/web/pro-sohotank.htm
Home page here..
http://www.stardom.com.tw/web/index_e.htm

The one I have is old and the power supply is an external in-the-cable type.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 6:10:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"kopn" <kopn@bk.ru> wrote in message
news:1120558142.318434.240670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for your reply.
> Does Ghost compress 7 times?

It doesn't need to compress the data 7 times. It only copies the used
sectors. In my case thats about 12-15GBytes worth.

> Why to fit a weeks worth of backups on the
> same drive. why to keep 7 copies of the same drive?

The computer is used every day so every backup is slightly different. I can
choose how far I go back should I need to do a recovery. Actually I keep the
last 5 mightly copies and 2 weeky copies so I can go back upto 2 weeks if I
had to. Obviously I would try and use the most recent first but that might
not be possible if I had nasty virus for example.

I agree that it would be much more efficient (in terms of the amount of
storage used) to do incremental backup but my USB drive is 120G so storage
isn't really a problem.

I configure the backup program to split each image into 600MByte files when
it does the backup. That way I can copy them to DVD (or even CD) later. It
automatically deletes old backups so the hard drive never fills up and it
sends me an email to tell me about any problems it had. The only problem it
ever has is if I forget to switch the drive on!
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 9:14:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Keeping out of the reliability debate that is raging and sticking to
cost, the answer is that it is a moving target. What I notice is that
there is a sweet spot that varies by time and market as to the most
bang for your buck :)  At the moment here in Australia it seems to be
the 200 and 250GB drives. It's not hard to do the calc $/capacity. But
that's not the whole story because too small a drive, even if a good
deal, is still going to take up a drive bay.

So I'd check where you intend to buy from (local or overseas) and do
the calc at the time you have to buy, because drive prices keep
changing.

Hope that helps,

Wayne
Wayne J. Cosshall
Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, www.dimagemaker.com
Freelance writer in graphic design, photography, digital technology
Personal art site www.artinyourface.com
wayne@dimagemaker.com

kopn wrote:
> Hello
> What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 10:21:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"kopn" <kopn@bk.ru> wrote in message
news:1120557378.959427.281730@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for your reply.
> I would have to remember what files and folder I backed up last time,
> what files and folders have changed and what files and folders have
> been created since then, find them and copy to a DVD to make a new back
> up. This is a time consuming task.
> Internal oem drives are less expensive than an external hard drive.


NO, the drives themselves are identical. The only difference is the
external enclosure. A good external HD enclosure can be had for less than
$50.

> What do you think about other HDD brands (Samsung...) than the
> mentioned?

WDC, Hitachi, Seagate or Maxtor are all good.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 10:24:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"kopn" <kopn@bk.ru> wrote in message
news:1120558142.318434.240670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for your reply.
> Does Ghost compress 7 times? Why to fit a weeks worth of backups on the
> same drive, why to keep 7 copies of the same drive?

Usually one wants two backup HDs. One is always offsite. Ghost compresses
~1.5x if the source drive/files aren't already compressed. Keep multiple
cycles around to protect against 2nd order threats including inadvertent
manual file deletion. Usually the backup HD is huge compared to the working
partitions is where the 7x comes from.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 10:27:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"kopn" <kopn@bk.ru> wrote in message
news:1120558352.232304.159200@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for your reply, Ron.
> Fire, theft, malicious or buggy SW causing my data loss are less
> probable than the drive failure.


NO, combined they are probably of about equal or greater probability over a
reasonable life than simple drive failure. Think about it; the list
included "malicious or buggy SW" which includes human error.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 10:51:25 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

kopn <kopn@bk.ru> wrote in message
news:1120543952.465583.289160@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Thanks for your replies.
> What is the cheapest (in terms of 1 mb) way to back up?

Really depends on what you want to backup.

Lot to be said for DVD now, but if you want to do full backups of
everything, not just what you will slash your wrists if you lose, an
external hard drive is a lot easier to use and can be fully automated.
Much more expensive than DVDs tho so it can make a lot of sense
to just backup what matters to DVD and accept the fact that you
will have to do a full reinstall if the hard drive dies etc.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 10:53:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

kopn <kopn@bk.ru> wrote in message
news:1120544418.820640.303360@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> What is POH?

Power On Hours, how long its been powered up for.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 10:53:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42ca4a9d$0$25124$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>
> kopn <kopn@bk.ru> wrote in message
> news:1120544418.820640.303360@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>> What is POH?
>
> Power On Hours, how long its been powered up for.

More important than POH as a drive spec related to design life is power
on/off cycles.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 10:56:38 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Ron Reaugh <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:o arye.1083370$w62.845127@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> kopn <kopn@bk.ru> wrote

>> In Russia Seagate costs much more than other brands.
>> What is the cheapest way (in terms of 1 mb) of back up?

> Big removable ATA HDs are the best solution generally.

Lousy value compared with DVD if the data will fit on a couple of DVDs

> Keep it off site.

Easier and safer with DVDs.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 5, 2005 10:56:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42ca4b46$0$25184$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>
> Ron Reaugh <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:o arye.1083370$w62.845127@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> kopn <kopn@bk.ru> wrote
>
>>> In Russia Seagate costs much more than other brands.
>>> What is the cheapest way (in terms of 1 mb) of back up?
>
>> Big removable ATA HDs are the best solution generally.
>
> Lousy value compared with DVD if the data will fit on a couple of DVDs
>
>> Keep it off site.
>
> Easier and safer with DVDs.

DVDs are too small and more expensive in the long run.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 6, 2005 12:31:39 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Joe Doe wrote:

> In article <dad9dv11om4@news3.newsguy.com>,
> "J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Joe Doe wrote:
>>
>> > In article <1120468347.105931.325460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>> > "kopn" <kopn@bk.ru> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hello
>> >> What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?
>> >
>> > Seagate currently offers 5 year warranties for almost all their drives
>> > (1 year for external USB). Most other manufacturers have shorter
>> > warranties (1-3 years). Since a longer warranty without corresponding
>> > product longevity is likely to cost Seagate serious money, I am
>> > inclined to think they have high confidence in their product.
>>
>> That is exactly the perception that the Seagate marketing department
>> wants you to have.
>>
>> Simple fact--failing in less than five years is unusual for disks of any
>> brand.
>>
>
>
>
> Well if it involves no cost it would be easy for the competitor to match
> this - why should they loose a marketing advantage? Hard drives are a
> commodity business that is quite brutal in competition. Providing the
> warranty reflects a real cost and risk exposure. The fact that the
> competition chooses not to match tells you they think they do not want
> this cost or risk exposure. Secondly, in a commodity business where you
> compete on price having the shorter warranty might allow a company to
> specify poorer quality parts and be able to sell at a lower price
> knowing full well that the design life is now shorter.

On the other hand, it may just be that Seagate's marketing people believe
that the increased sales resulting from the longer warranty will more than
offset the costs of increasing the warranty, while the other manufacturers
don't think that they'll get enough of an increase in sales to make the
increase in warranty worthwhile.

> I have had at least three Maxtor drives fail between 3-4 years (just out
> of warranty).

Out of how many Maxtor drives and did you have an equal number of other
brands of drive with a different failure rate?

> Roland

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 6, 2005 3:09:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

kopn wrote:

> What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?

The 80GB drive Fry's offered for $19 after rebate or the 120GB they
offered more recently for $20 AR, but both pale compared to the $10 AR
deal somebody got for a 120GB-160GB after a price match.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 6, 2005 9:23:39 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

kopn <kopn@bk.ru> wrote in message
news:1120557378.959427.281730@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> I would have to remember what files and folder I backed up last time,
> what files and folders have changed and what files and folders have
> been created since then, find them and copy to a DVD to make a new back
> up. This is a time consuming task.

The other approach is to keep everything that you'll slash your
wrists if you lose in once folder tree under My Documents and just
backup that entire folder tree to DVD every time you do a backup.

The only time that doesnt work well is when you have lots of photos
or movies stored there, the size becomes too large for convenience.

> Internal oem drives are less expensive than an external hard drive.

Yes, but those dont protect you against the power
supply dying spectacularly and killing the drives
inside the PC, or theft of that PC, or fire or flood etc.

An external drive is a bit safer in that respect, particularly if you hide
it before leaving the house so its less likely to get stolen with the PC.

> What do you think about other HDD brands (Samsung...) than the
> mentioned?

I like Samsungs myself, just because they are noticeably
quieter than the alternatives and run a bit cooler too.

Seagates do have a longer warranty tho, 5 years instead of 3.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 6, 2005 9:27:07 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

kopn <kopn@bk.ru> wrote in message
news:1120558352.232304.159200@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Fire, theft, malicious or buggy SW causing my
> data loss are less probable than the drive failure.

Yes, but they do happen too.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 6, 2005 9:28:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Ron Reaugh <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:b9Aye.390118$cg1.164896@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>> kopn <kopn@bk.ru> wrote

>>> What is POH?

>> Power On Hours, how long its been powered up for.

> More important than POH as a drive spec related to design life is power on/off
> cycles.

Only if you mindlessly keep shutting the drive down. I dont.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 6, 2005 9:34:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Joe Doe" <None@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:None-9DE45A.13045105072005@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
> In article <dad9dv11om4@news3.newsguy.com>,
> "J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Joe Doe wrote:
>>
>> > In article <1120468347.105931.325460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>> > "kopn" <kopn@bk.ru> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hello
>> >> What is the best HDD in terms of Reliability/cost?
>> >
>> > Seagate currently offers 5 year warranties for almost all their drives
>> > (1 year for external USB). Most other manufacturers have shorter
>> > warranties (1-3 years). Since a longer warranty without corresponding
>> > product longevity is likely to cost Seagate serious money, I am inclined
>> > to think they have high confidence in their product.
>>
>> That is exactly the perception that the Seagate marketing department wants
>> you to have.
>>
>> Simple fact--failing in less than five years is unusual for disks of any
>> brand.

> Well if it involves no cost it would be easy for the competitor
> to match this - why should they loose a marketing advantage?
> Hard drives are a commodity business that is quite brutal in
> competition. Providing the warranty reflects a real cost and risk
> exposure. The fact that the competition chooses not to match
> tells you they think they do not want this cost or risk exposure.

Or they realise that any warranty has a cost, even with a
perfect drive that never fails in the field, there will always
be some drives killed by gross mismanagement etc.
And they believe that more purchases are made on price
than on warranty and that the shorter warranty will produce
more sales because they can be sold at a lower price.

> Secondly, in a commodity business where you
> compete on price having the shorter warranty might
> allow a company to specify poorer quality parts

Not feasible with hard drives.

They do in fact do what you say just by having
a shorter warranty and so lower warranty costs.

> and be able to sell at a lower price knowing
> full well that the design life is now shorter.

> I have had at least three Maxtor drives fail
> between 3-4 years (just out of warranty).

And hardly anyone else sees that result, so its much more likely
to be something you are doing like running the drives too hot etc.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
July 6, 2005 9:41:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

kopn <kopn@bk.ru> wrote in message
news:1120558759.862383.86180@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Do you just copy (add) newer files and folders to a DVD for back up?

No, I find that the entire folder tree under My Computers and the entire
folder tree used for email and newsgroups all fit on a single DVD fine.

I also backup at a higher rate to other drives on the lan. The backup to
DVD is only really used for last ditch protection in case the entire house
got looted by some damned druggy or it burnt to the ground etc. There
is no possibility of flood here. I use the backup to other drives on the lan
for more common situations like a full clean reinstall of the OS and data.

I also have an immense collection of stuff scarfed off the net over more
than a decade now and occasionally write that to a set of DVDs. That
doesnt happen all that often because that stuff can be obtained off the
net again if the worst comes to the worst, just a nuisance really.
!