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Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 14, 2005 3:18:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Hi,

I'm trying to repair my crashed 200Gb Western Digital hard disk (WD2000JB).
A few days ago it started making a strange buzzing noise, then about 10
minutes later died completely. Naturally, I had forgotten to backup the
contents of the drive (lesson learned). I tried a few hard drive recovery
services but they were all quoting about $2500 for recovery of a hard disk
with a mechanical fault - a bit steep for me.

Ok, so I figured I may as well have a go myself - nothing to lose. I setup
up a 'clean room' in my bathroom (cleaned it out, used an ion generator and
the hot steam from the shower to temporarily settle the dust down). I know
its nothing compared to a professional one, but it's the best I can do. I
opened the hard drive for about 30 seconds, enough to determine that the
platters couldn't be moved around by hand. I opened another similar hard
drive (with no data on it) and was able to move the platters easily, so I'm
assuming there must be something wrong with the bearings in the hard disk.
I've managed to get hold of another (almost) identical motor/bearing
assembly, and I'm going to have a go at swapping them over.

My problem is that my hard drive has 2 platters inside it (basically like 2
CDs stacked on top of each other with a 1cm gap between them), but I don't
know if I need to ensure that they stay perfectly aligned when I moved them
to the new spindle or not (imagine rotating the top cd around a vertical
axis by 10 degrees - the data would no longer be sychronised between the 2
platters). There are no marks or holes to tell the orientation of the
platters, so it would be very hard to take them both off one spindle, and
put them on to the new one and preserve this relationship exactly.

Does anyone know if I need to do this, or have any other advise?

Thanks,

Ben

More about : hard drive repair

Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 14, 2005 3:18:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

I am amazed in courageous people :-)
In first, WD hard drives has many incompatible type of electronical
boards and blocks of magnetic heads... in one same model!!!
In other words, model WD2000JB can have various type of magnetic
heads...
So without special knowledge is unreal to find a suitable disk with the
same type of magnetic heads!!!


Probably I can help you if you opened it no more than 30 seconds...
What behaviour of a disk now? Do you hear work of the engine?? ? Your
drive makes any hellish noises?

Sorry for my english, I just studing it ;) 


Andrej
HDD Rescue Party
http://www.trackway.net/hdd/
Data Recovery & Hard Drive Repair
services in Bishkek

Ben Galvin пиÑ?ал(а):

> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to repair my crashed 200Gb Western Digital hard disk (WD2000JB).
> A few days ago it started making a strange buzzing noise, then about 10
> minutes later died completely. Naturally, I had forgotten to backup the
> contents of the drive (lesson learned). I tried a few hard drive recovery
> services but they were all quoting about $2500 for recovery of a hard disk
> with a mechanical fault - a bit steep for me.
>
> Ok, so I figured I may as well have a go myself - nothing to lose. I setup
> up a 'clean room' in my bathroom (cleaned it out, used an ion generator and
> the hot steam from the shower to temporarily settle the dust down). I know
> its nothing compared to a professional one, but it's the best I can do. I
> opened the hard drive for about 30 seconds, enough to determine that the
> platters couldn't be moved around by hand. I opened another similar hard
> drive (with no data on it) and was able to move the platters easily, so I'm
> assuming there must be something wrong with the bearings in the hard disk.
> I've managed to get hold of another (almost) identical motor/bearing
> assembly, and I'm going to have a go at swapping them over.
>
> My problem is that my hard drive has 2 platters inside it (basically like 2
> CDs stacked on top of each other with a 1cm gap between them), but I don't
> know if I need to ensure that they stay perfectly aligned when I moved them
> to the new spindle or not (imagine rotating the top cd around a vertical
> axis by 10 degrees - the data would no longer be sychronised between the 2
> platters). There are no marks or holes to tell the orientation of the
> platters, so it would be very hard to take them both off one spindle, and
> put them on to the new one and preserve this relationship exactly.
>
> Does anyone know if I need to do this, or have any other advise?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ben
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 14, 2005 3:18:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 11:18:15 +0800, "Ben Galvin" <asd@asd.com> wrote:

>Does anyone know if I need to do this, or have any other advise?

You need a prayer if you are going to swap hard drive gut to salvage
data. They are quite senstive and static discharge (even those you
never notice) will wipe portion of the disk platter.
--
When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
Related resources
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 14, 2005 3:18:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Yes, this sounds is bad. In any case you opened a cover already. Do you
tried to rotate a disk? It rotates without resistance? Please! Do not
touch disks, and rotate in the middle! Where heads are located? On a
path inside of a disk(closer to the center), or they somewhere on a
disk?

In general, it is rather rare case, when a problem with the engine.
Quite possibly, magnetic heads is adhere to a disk... It happens more
often...

Yes, you can eat it, but later you will die... :)  same here - you can
change the engine or rearrange disks but it will not work.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 14, 2005 3:18:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

If it will work, you are welcome to our business :) ))
On your place if I really had the important data, I would search for
the company with the smaller prices... I could offer you my services,
but I am not confident, that it is my case...
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 14, 2005 5:34:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Ben Galvin <asd@asd.com> wrote

> I'm trying to repair my crashed 200Gb Western Digital hard disk
> (WD2000JB). A few days ago it started making a strange buzzing noise,
> then about 10 minutes later died completely. Naturally, I had
> forgotten to backup the contents of the drive (lesson learned). I
> tried a few hard drive recovery services but they were all quoting
> about $2500 for recovery of a hard disk with a mechanical fault - a
> bit steep for me.

> Ok, so I figured I may as well have a go myself - nothing to lose. I setup up
> a 'clean room' in my bathroom (cleaned it out, used an ion
> generator and the hot steam from the shower to temporarily settle the
> dust down). I know its nothing compared to a professional one, but
> it's the best I can do. I opened the hard drive for about 30 seconds,
> enough to determine that the platters couldn't be moved around by
> hand. I opened another similar hard drive (with no data on it) and
> was able to move the platters easily, so I'm assuming there must be something
> wrong with the bearings in the hard disk.

Its very unusual for a modern hard drive to fail by bearing failure.

Hope you have only been touching the edge.

> I've managed to get hold of another (almost) identical motor/bearing assembly,
> and I'm going to have a go at swapping them over.

Your chances of success are very minimal indeed.

> My problem is that my hard drive has 2 platters inside it (basically
> like 2 CDs stacked on top of each other with a 1cm gap between them), but I
> don't know if I need to ensure that they stay perfectly aligned when I moved
> them to the new spindle or not

Yes you do. And that is very difficult to do.

> (imagine rotating the top cd around a vertical axis by 10 degrees - the data
> would no longer be sychronised between the 2 platters).

That doesnt matter in the sense that the two platters need to
have the same point on their circumferences perfectly aligned,
essentially because when reading a writing the system checks
to see when the sector its looking for has passed under the heads.

The bigger problem is to ensure that the tracks stay centered
when you move the platters from one axel to another.

> There are no marks or holes to tell the orientation of the platters, so it
> would be very hard to take them both off one spindle, and put them on to the
> new one and preserve this relationship exactly.

Yes, but that isnt necessary.

> Does anyone know if I need to do this,

No you dont.

> or have any other advise?

It may be possible to take the entire stack of axle and
platters out of the alleged bad bearing into the other.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 14, 2005 8:22:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Impmon wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:06:25 +0800, "Ben" <asd@asd.com> wrote:
>
> > I did try to rotate the disk (on the edge), and it wouldn't
> > move at all.

> Unusual problem indeed. I've dismantled a number of dead hard drive
> and i have NEVER seen one with stuck platter. I'm inclined to think
> the motor that drives the platter had a catastrophic failure that
> jammed the spindle completely.

Some of the first 1.5" high Seagates with plated platters, like the
ST-138 and ST-251, were famous for developing stuck heads, but turning
the power on and off while sharply thumping the drive on top would
usually free them, for a while at least (could become stuck again
overnight). Some people instead manually rotated the motor from the
outside, often the wrong way and ending up tearing a head off its arm
(correct rotation could also do that).
August 14, 2005 9:14:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Hi Andrej,

I'm hoping that I can keep the heads, circuit boards, etc... and just
replace the motor (the motor, bearings and spindle are all one part). I've
got the motor from a 160Gb Western digital which looks pretty much the same.

At the moment when you plug the hard disk into a power supply, it buzzes for
half a second, is silent for half a second, buzzes again, is silent again,
etc.. and repeats this for about 60 seconds, then goes silent. I've checked
the resistance etc... of all the coils on the motor and it seems fine. I've
also tried putting the controller circuit board onto another hard disk and
it worked fine, so it seems likely that it is a mechanical problem with the
motor, bearings or spindle.

The plan at the moment is to open the hard disk again, slide the armature
off the platters, remove the screws from the top of the spindle, remove the
platters, unscrew the motor, replace it, then put everything back. Is this
reasonable? Is resting a platter on a piece of cloth enough to damage it?
Will sliding the armature on and off the platters damage it?

Thanks for your help,

Ben

"Andrej" <hdd_googl@trackway.net> wrote in message
news:1124002356.863967.218200@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I am amazed in courageous people :-)
In first, WD hard drives has many incompatible type of electronical
boards and blocks of magnetic heads... in one same model!!!
In other words, model WD2000JB can have various type of magnetic
heads...
So without special knowledge is unreal to find a suitable disk with the
same type of magnetic heads!!!


Probably I can help you if you opened it no more than 30 seconds...
What behaviour of a disk now? Do you hear work of the engine?? ? Your
drive makes any hellish noises?

Sorry for my english, I just studing it ;) 


Andrej
HDD Rescue Party
http://www.trackway.net/hdd/
Data Recovery & Hard Drive Repair
services in Bishkek

Ben Galvin ?????(?):

> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to repair my crashed 200Gb Western Digital hard disk
> (WD2000JB).
> A few days ago it started making a strange buzzing noise, then about 10
> minutes later died completely. Naturally, I had forgotten to backup the
> contents of the drive (lesson learned). I tried a few hard drive recovery
> services but they were all quoting about $2500 for recovery of a hard disk
> with a mechanical fault - a bit steep for me.
>
> Ok, so I figured I may as well have a go myself - nothing to lose. I setup
> up a 'clean room' in my bathroom (cleaned it out, used an ion generator
> and
> the hot steam from the shower to temporarily settle the dust down). I know
> its nothing compared to a professional one, but it's the best I can do. I
> opened the hard drive for about 30 seconds, enough to determine that the
> platters couldn't be moved around by hand. I opened another similar hard
> drive (with no data on it) and was able to move the platters easily, so
> I'm
> assuming there must be something wrong with the bearings in the hard disk.
> I've managed to get hold of another (almost) identical motor/bearing
> assembly, and I'm going to have a go at swapping them over.
>
> My problem is that my hard drive has 2 platters inside it (basically like
> 2
> CDs stacked on top of each other with a 1cm gap between them), but I don't
> know if I need to ensure that they stay perfectly aligned when I moved
> them
> to the new spindle or not (imagine rotating the top cd around a vertical
> axis by 10 degrees - the data would no longer be sychronised between the 2
> platters). There are no marks or holes to tell the orientation of the
> platters, so it would be very hard to take them both off one spindle, and
> put them on to the new one and preserve this relationship exactly.
>
> Does anyone know if I need to do this, or have any other advise?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ben
August 15, 2005 1:06:25 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Yes, I did try to rotate the disk (on the edge), and it wouldn't move at
all. The head is able to move and is currently in the landing zone near the
center of the disk. Can't think what would cause it to stop moving other
than a problem with the bearing.

Why do you say it won't work if I change the engine or move the platters? Is
it too hard to put things back exactly how they were?

"Andrej" <hdd_googl@trackway.net> wrote in message
news:1124015491.716298.20010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Yes, this sounds is bad. In any case you opened a cover already. Do you
> tried to rotate a disk? It rotates without resistance? Please! Do not
> touch disks, and rotate in the middle! Where heads are located? On a
> path inside of a disk(closer to the center), or they somewhere on a
> disk?
>
> In general, it is rather rare case, when a problem with the engine.
> Quite possibly, magnetic heads is adhere to a disk... It happens more
> often...
>
> Yes, you can eat it, but later you will die... :)  same here - you can
> change the engine or rearrange disks but it will not work.
>
August 15, 2005 1:06:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:06:25 +0800, "Ben" <asd@asd.com> wrote:

>Yes, I did try to rotate the disk (on the edge),

With your fingers ?

> and it wouldn't move at
>all. The head is able to move and is currently in the landing zone near the
>center of the disk.

Did you moved them a lot on the surface of the platter ?


>Why do you say it won't work if I change the engine or move the platters? Is
>it too hard to put things back exactly how they were?

It is very hard, and if you answered yes to one of my previous
question you can forget about data recovery.

Nick
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 15, 2005 1:06:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:06:25 +0800, "Ben" <asd@asd.com> wrote:

>Yes, I did try to rotate the disk (on the edge), and it wouldn't move at
>all. The head is able to move and is currently in the landing zone near the
>center of the disk. Can't think what would cause it to stop moving other
>than a problem with the bearing.

Unusual problem indeed. I've dismantled a number of dead hard drive
and i have NEVER seen one with stuck platter. I'm inclined to thing
the morot that drives the platter had a catastrophic failure that
jammed the spindle completely.

>Why do you say it won't work if I change the engine or move the platters? Is
>it too hard to put things back exactly how they were?

If you can somehow change the motor without disturbing any of the
platters, you can try. But if the only way to change the motor is to
remove the platter, better consider forking over $2500 to data
recovery service because getting both platter aligned EXACTLY the way
it was on old one would be very difficult. You're more likely to lose
data permantly if you tried. Since the data are packed tightly on
microcopic level, you'd need a powerful microscope just to read the
magnetic surface and line both platter the same way as the original
one. That special microscope costs far more than $2500 and takes
trained expert to use it properly.
--
When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 15, 2005 1:06:27 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

My guess is that you've had a head crash and that the head(s) have cold
welded themselves somehow to the platter and that's what's stopping it going
round.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 15, 2005 1:06:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"CWatters" <colin.watters@pandoraBOX.be> wrote in message
news:ivNLe.169363$R37.9548887@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
> My guess is that you've had a head crash and that the head(s) have cold
> welded themselves somehow to the platter and that's what's stopping it
going
> round.

I take that back I see you can move the heads. In which case perhaps you
have lost a magnet in the motor. eg it's physically come loose and jammed
the rotor?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 15, 2005 8:57:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Ben <asd@asd.com> wrote

> I'm hoping that I can keep the heads, circuit boards, etc... and just
> replace the motor (the motor, bearings and spindle are all one part).

No they arent, what rotates must be seperatable from what doesnt.

> I've got the motor from a 160Gb Western digital which looks pretty much the
> same.

You should be able to check if they are the same pretty easily.

> At the moment when you plug the hard disk into a power supply, it buzzes for
> half a second, is silent for half a second, buzzes again,
> is silent again, etc.. and repeats this for about 60 seconds, then
> goes silent. I've checked the resistance etc... of all the coils on
> the motor and it seems fine. I've also tried putting the controller
> circuit board onto another hard disk and it worked fine, so it seems
> likely that it is a mechanical problem with the motor, bearings or spindle.

Yes.

> The plan at the moment is to open the hard disk again, slide the
> armature off the platters, remove the screws from the top of the
> spindle, remove the platters, unscrew the motor, replace it, then put
> everything back. Is this reasonable?

I doubt you'll get the platters back on the new shaft accurately enough
for the heads to be able to track the cylinders properly once it spins up.
They're almost certain to be eccentric. They're written to the platters
once the assembly is in place and you cant do that and keep the data.

> Is resting a platter on a piece of cloth enough to damage it?

Really depends on what it picks up. Safer to stand it on edge.

> Will sliding the armature on and off the platters damage it?

Shouldnt do.


> "Andrej" <hdd_googl@trackway.net> wrote in message
> news:1124002356.863967.218200@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I am amazed in courageous people :-)
> In first, WD hard drives has many incompatible type of electronical
> boards and blocks of magnetic heads... in one same model!!!
> In other words, model WD2000JB can have various type of magnetic
> heads...
> So without special knowledge is unreal to find a suitable disk with
> the same type of magnetic heads!!!
>
>
> Probably I can help you if you opened it no more than 30 seconds...
> What behaviour of a disk now? Do you hear work of the engine?? ? Your
> drive makes any hellish noises?
>
> Sorry for my english, I just studing it ;) 
>
>
> Andrej
> HDD Rescue Party
> http://www.trackway.net/hdd/
> Data Recovery & Hard Drive Repair
> services in Bishkek
>
> Ben Galvin ?????(?):
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm trying to repair my crashed 200Gb Western Digital hard disk
>> (WD2000JB).
>> A few days ago it started making a strange buzzing noise, then about
>> 10 minutes later died completely. Naturally, I had forgotten to
>> backup the contents of the drive (lesson learned). I tried a few
>> hard drive recovery services but they were all quoting about $2500
>> for recovery of a hard disk with a mechanical fault - a bit steep
>> for me. Ok, so I figured I may as well have a go myself - nothing to lose. I
>> setup up a 'clean room' in my bathroom (cleaned it out, used an ion
>> generator and
>> the hot steam from the shower to temporarily settle the dust down).
>> I know its nothing compared to a professional one, but it's the best
>> I can do. I opened the hard drive for about 30 seconds, enough to
>> determine that the platters couldn't be moved around by hand. I
>> opened another similar hard drive (with no data on it) and was able
>> to move the platters easily, so I'm
>> assuming there must be something wrong with the bearings in the hard
>> disk. I've managed to get hold of another (almost) identical
>> motor/bearing assembly, and I'm going to have a go at swapping them
>> over. My problem is that my hard drive has 2 platters inside it (basically
>> like 2
>> CDs stacked on top of each other with a 1cm gap between them), but I
>> don't know if I need to ensure that they stay perfectly aligned when
>> I moved them
>> to the new spindle or not (imagine rotating the top cd around a
>> vertical axis by 10 degrees - the data would no longer be
>> sychronised between the 2 platters). There are no marks or holes to
>> tell the orientation of the platters, so it would be very hard to
>> take them both off one spindle, and put them on to the new one and
>> preserve this relationship exactly. Does anyone know if I need to do this, or
>> have any other advise?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ben
Anonymous
a b G Storage
August 15, 2005 8:59:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Impmon <impmon@digi.mon> wrote
> Ben Galvin <asd@asd.com> wrote

>> Does anyone know if I need to do this, or have any other advise?

> You need a prayer if you are going to swap hard drive gut
> to salvage data. They are quite senstive and static discharge
> (even those you never notice) will wipe portion of the disk platter.

That is just plain wrong.
!