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solid state external drive or normal spinning type?

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Anonymous
a b D Laptop
a b G Storage
September 12, 2005 12:26:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Hi, in choosing an external hard drive i have narrowed it down to a choice
between a small laptop type in an external case or a small portable solid
state type of 60 GB.

is there any advantage in getting the normal laptop type since the
solid state one has no moving parts; which i thought would have been an
advantage. but on the other hand if they were that much better i guess the
soldi state type would be fitted to laptops, but they are not.

any advice please about the relative merits of the two different types?
thanks.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
a b G Storage
September 12, 2005 1:23:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"jw 1111" <blue.star77@REMOOVEvirgin.net> wrote in message
news:Up0Ve.4431$st1.1787@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> Hi, in choosing an external hard drive i have narrowed it down to a choice
> between a small laptop type in an external case or a small portable solid
> state type of 60 GB.

Are you sure the solid state drive isn't 2GB ?
A 60GB solid state drive would be VERY expensive, way out of
consumer level, which solid state drive have you seen?

> is there any advantage in getting the normal laptop type since the
> solid state one has no moving parts; which i thought would have been an
> advantage. but on the other hand if they were that much better i guess the
> soldi state type would be fitted to laptops, but they are not.

Cost.

> any advice please about the relative merits of the two different types?
> thanks.

--
Mike
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
a b G Storage
September 12, 2005 11:00:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

jw 1111 <blue.star77@REMOOVEvirgin.net> wrote:

> Hi, in choosing an external hard drive i have narrowed it down to a choice
> between a small laptop type in an external case or a small portable solid
> state type of 60 GB.

> is there any advantage in getting the normal laptop type

Price basically.

> since the solid state one has no moving parts; which i thought would have been
> an advantage. but on the other hand if they were that much better i guess the
> soldi state type would be fitted to laptops, but they are not.

Yes, basically because of the price.

> any advice please about the relative merits of the two different types?

Basically 60G solid state is very expensive.
Related resources
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
a b G Storage
September 12, 2005 11:00:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3ojk6tF66vh6U1@individual.net...
> jw 1111 <blue.star77@REMOOVEvirgin.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi, in choosing an external hard drive i have narrowed it down to a
>> choice between a small laptop type in an external case or a small
>> portable solid state type of 60 GB.
>
>> is there any advantage in getting the normal laptop type
>
> Price basically.
>
>> since the solid state one has no moving parts; which i thought would have
>> been an advantage. but on the other hand if they were that much better i
>> guess the soldi state type would be fitted to laptops, but they are not.
>
> Yes, basically because of the price.
>
>> any advice please about the relative merits of the two different types?
>
> Basically 60G solid state is very expensive.

the novatech nddisk7 60 GB external slimline memory is £72 u.k. [ 132 $
u.s.] buying on line which i think is not much more than a normal laptop
memory is it?
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
a b G Storage
September 12, 2005 11:00:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"jw 1111" <blue.star77@REMOOVEvirgin.net> wrote in message
news:D c1Ve.4446$st1.826@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3ojk6tF66vh6U1@individual.net...
>> jw 1111 <blue.star77@REMOOVEvirgin.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, in choosing an external hard drive i have narrowed it down to a
>>> choice between a small laptop type in an external case or a small
>>> portable solid state type of 60 GB.
>>
>>> is there any advantage in getting the normal laptop type
>>
>> Price basically.
>>
>>> since the solid state one has no moving parts; which i thought would
>>> have been an advantage. but on the other hand if they were that much
>>> better i guess the soldi state type would be fitted to laptops, but they
>>> are not.
>>
>> Yes, basically because of the price.
>>
>>> any advice please about the relative merits of the two different types?
>>
>> Basically 60G solid state is very expensive.
>
> the novatech nddisk7 60 GB external slimline memory is £72 u.k. [ 132 $
> u.s.] buying on line which i think is not much more than a normal laptop
> memory is it?

thats a "normal" spinning disk type
novatech ndisk 2 60GB @ £72
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NOV-ND...


this one is "solid state":
2GB usb flash drive @ £64
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NOV-MS...

--
Mike
September 12, 2005 11:00:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

> the novatech nddisk7 60 GB external slimline memory is £72 u.k. [ 132 $
> u.s.] buying on line which i think is not much more than a normal laptop
> memory is it?

What is "nddisk7"?

I think you are mistaken. Those are NOT solid state hard disks.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
a b G Storage
September 12, 2005 11:40:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Mike Redrobe" <mike@redrobe.net> wrote in message
news:o f1Ve.106877$G8.103803@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "jw 1111" <blue.star77@REMOOVEvirgin.net> wrote in message
> news:Up0Ve.4431$st1.1787@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>> Hi, in choosing an external hard drive i have narrowed it down to a
>> choice
>> between a small laptop type in an external case or a small portable solid
>> state type of 60 GB.
>
> Are you sure the solid state drive isn't 2GB ?
> A 60GB solid state drive would be VERY expensive, way out of
> consumer level, which solid state drive have you seen?
>


this one. i thought it was solid state but am not sure now.

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/products/a751x1y0z1p...
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
a b G Storage
September 12, 2005 11:44:14 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Peter" <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote
>> this one is "solid state":
>> 2GB usb flash drive @ £64
>> http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NOV-MS...
>
> Look at fantastic speed of this drive! No moving parts, implemented using
> memory chips.

It may not be the fastest, but you can kick it across the floor and it'll
still work.

--
Mike
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
a b G Storage
September 12, 2005 4:16:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"jw 1111" <blue.star77@REMOOVEvirgin.net> wrote
>
> this one. i thought it was solid state but am not sure now.
>
> http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/products/a751x1y0z1p...

The cost should tell you whether it is or not.
Solid state (flash) is around £40/GB Hard disks are around £0.35/GB

--
Mike
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
a b G Storage
September 12, 2005 5:42:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Mike Redrobe" <mike@redrobe.net> wrote in message
news:hkeVe.107212$G8.31880@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "jw 1111" <blue.star77@REMOOVEvirgin.net> wrote
>>
>> this one. i thought it was solid state but am not sure now.
>>
>> http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/products/a751x1y0z1p...
>
> The cost should tell you whether it is or not.
> Solid state (flash) is around £40/GB Hard disks are around £0.35/GB
>
> --
> Mike
>
gulp ! sorry. my mistake :( 
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
a b G Storage
September 12, 2005 5:57:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously jw 1111 <blue.star77@remoovevirgin.net> wrote:
> Hi, in choosing an external hard drive i have narrowed it down to a choice
> between a small laptop type in an external case or a small portable solid
> state type of 60 GB.

Are you sure about it being solid-state? Solid-state 60GB should cost
more than $10000 (I did not find prices on the web, bad sign).
One reference I found was $91000 for a 32 GB disk-backed RAM system,
which may or may not be more expensive than flash. I also found
one 4GB solid state disk for $2600.

> is there any advantage in getting the normal laptop type since the
> solid state one has no moving parts; which i thought would have been an
> advantage. but on the other hand if they were that much better i guess the
> soldi state type would be fitted to laptops, but they are not.

> any advice please about the relative merits of the two different types?
> thanks.

Solid state is massively more reliable and seldomly has complete
disk failures. In your size range it is usually used only in extreme
environments, for ultra-reliability applications and when extreme
large databases have to be accessed extrememly fast.

Arno
September 12, 2005 5:57:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

> Solid state is massively more reliable

Not always:
http://www.bitmicro.com/products_edisksan_2U_RAID_fc.ph...
....
Pure Solid State/Non-Volatile
MTBF - 400,000 Hours
+5 to + 35 degrees C
10,000 feet Altitude


> and seldomly has complete
> disk failures. In your size range it is usually used only in extreme
> environments, for ultra-reliability applications and when extreme
> large databases have to be accessed extrememly fast.
>
> Arno
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
a b G Storage
September 12, 2005 7:39:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Solid state is massively more reliable

> Not always:
> http://www.bitmicro.com/products_edisksan_2U_RAID_fc.ph...
> ...
> Pure Solid State/Non-Volatile
> MTBF - 400,000 Hours
> +5 to + 35 degrees C
> 10,000 feet Altitude

Well, yes. Also a cheap USB dongle is technically "solid state"
but does not match classical SSDs in reliability.

Arno
September 12, 2005 7:39:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3olloqF6ifp1U1@individual.net...
> Previously Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >> Solid state is massively more reliable
>
> > Not always:
> > http://www.bitmicro.com/products_edisksan_2U_RAID_fc.ph...
> > ...
> > Pure Solid State/Non-Volatile
> > MTBF - 400,000 Hours
> > +5 to + 35 degrees C
> > 10,000 feet Altitude
>
> Well, yes.

Bitmicro E-Disks are not cheap, yet not massively reliable. Popular hard
drives have better reliabilty.

> Also a cheap USB dongle is technically "solid state"
> but does not match classical SSDs in reliability.

That comes with no surprise. Do you have any reliabilty info on "USB
dongles"?
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
a b G Storage
September 12, 2005 8:33:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:3olfqaF6f59iU1@individual.net
> Previously jw 1111 <blue.star77@remoovevirgin.net> wrote:
> > Hi, in choosing an external hard drive i have narrowed it down to a choice
> > between a small laptop type in an external case or a small portable solid
> > state type of 60 GB.
>
> Are you sure about it being solid-state? Solid-state 60GB should cost
> more than $10000 (I did not find prices on the web, bad sign).
> One reference I found was $91000 for a 32 GB disk-backed RAM system,
> which may or may not be more expensive than flash. I also found one 4GB
> solid state disk for $2600.
>
> > is there any advantage in getting the normal laptop type since the
> > solid state one has no moving parts; which i thought would have been an
> > advantage. but on the other hand if they were that much better i guess the
> > soldi state type would be fitted to laptops, but they are not.
>
> > any advice please about the relative merits of the two different types?
> > thanks.
>
> Solid state is massively more reliable

> and seldomly has complete disk failures.

That's like saying that even the hostbus interface is more reliable than
regular IDE or SCSI.

> In your size range it is usually used only in extreme
> environments, for ultra-reliability applications and when extreme
> large databases have to be accessed extrememly fast.
>
> Arno
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
a b G Storage
September 12, 2005 8:33:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:3olloqF6ifp1U1@individual.net
> Previously Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > Solid state is massively more reliable
>
> > Not always:
> > http://www.bitmicro.com/products_edisksan_2U_RAID_fc.ph...
> > ...
> > Pure Solid State/Non-Volatile
> > MTBF - 400,000 Hours
> > +5 to + 35 degrees C
> > 10,000 feet Altitude
>
> Well, yes. Also a cheap USB dongle is technically "solid state"
> but does not match classical SSDs in reliability.

That's fine if it is more reliable.

>
> Arno
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
a b G Storage
September 12, 2005 8:33:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"jw 1111" <blue.star77@REMOOVEvirgin.net> wrote in message news:p haVe.6953$zw1.1582@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net
> "Mike Redrobe" <mike@redrobe.net> wrote in message news:o f1Ve.106877$G8.103803@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> > > > "jw 1111" blue.star77@REMOOVEvirgin.net> wrote in message news:Up0Ve.4431$st1.1787@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> > > Hi, in choosing an external hard drive i have narrowed it down to a choice
> > > between a small laptop type in an external case or a small portable solid
> > > state type of 60 GB.
> >
> > Are you sure the solid state drive isn't 2GB ?
> > A 60GB solid state drive would be VERY expensive, way out of
> > consumer level, which solid state drive have you seen?
> >
>
>
> this one.
>
> http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/products/a751x1y0z1p...

> i thought it was solid state

Yeah, clear as day says 'Solid State'.

> but am not sure now.

No? What gave you that idea?
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
a b G Storage
September 12, 2005 11:04:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:3olloqF6ifp1U1@individual.net...
>> Previously Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> >> Solid state is massively more reliable
>>
>> > Not always:
>> > http://www.bitmicro.com/products_edisksan_2U_RAID_fc.ph...
>> > ...
>> > Pure Solid State/Non-Volatile
>> > MTBF - 400,000 Hours
>> > +5 to + 35 degrees C
>> > 10,000 feet Altitude
>>
>> Well, yes.

> Bitmicro E-Disks are not cheap, yet not massively reliable. Popular hard
> drives have better reliabilty.

Actually MTBF is only part of the story. Bit-error rate is another.
There may also be SSDs that are optimised for speed only, I agree.
SSDs used to be only an option for special reliability needs, I guess
there is a whole set of products targetted at different usage
scenarios now.

Also reliability of SSDs is usually used under conditions like
shock and vibration (nearly indestructable) or for example in
non-standard gas mixes, low/no air pressure, humindity or the like.
SSDs will do pretty well under thse conditions while HDDs die
very fast.

One other thing: For HDDs component life (the time the MTBF is
valid) is usually 5 years. For SSDs it can be 30 years or around.
Very important for equipment that cannot be easily replaced.

Also note thet the eqipment you reference is not an SSD, but a whole
box with PSU and the like. The SSD itself may actually have a
better MTBF then the whole box. It is especially difficult to
get PSUs with > 500.000h MTBF. It is also expensive to
measure MTBFs in this range so since you need to operate
many units for a long time. 500.000h is just about 2% failure
rate ber year.

>> Also a cheap USB dongle is technically "solid state"
>> but does not match classical SSDs in reliability.

> That comes with no surprise. Do you have any reliabilty info on "USB
> dongles"?

No. Just that I and people I know had failures on not too much used
ones. I solved this by buing branded dongles where the brand name may
have something to loose. I also copy everything important (like slides
for a talk I am about to give) to two different dongles.

Arno
September 13, 2005 9:58:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> Previously Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>> "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:3olloqF6ifp1U1@individual.net...
>>> Previously Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>>> Solid state is massively more reliable
>>>
>>>> Not always:
>>>> http://www.bitmicro.com/products_edisksan_2U_RAID_fc.ph...
>>>> ...
>>>> Pure Solid State/Non-Volatile
>>>> MTBF - 400,000 Hours
>>>> +5 to + 35 degrees C
>>>> 10,000 feet Altitude
>>>
>>> Well, yes.

>> Bitmicro E-Disks are not cheap, yet not massively reliable. Popular
>> hard drives have better reliabilty.

> Actually MTBF is only part of the story.

He didnt say anything about MTBF.

> Bit-error rate is another. There may also be SSDs that are
> optimised for speed only, I agree. SSDs used to be only an
> option for special reliability needs, I guess there is a whole
> set of products targetted at different usage scenarios now.

Corse there are.

> Also reliability of SSDs is usually used under conditions like
> shock and vibration (nearly indestructable) or for example in
> non-standard gas mixes, low/no air pressure, humindity or the like.
> SSDs will do pretty well under thse conditions while HDDs die very fast.

Irrelevant to the normal use of both types of storage.

> One other thing: For HDDs component life
> (the time the MTBF is valid) is usually 5 years.

Wrong, that is an entirely different concept, the design life.

> For SSDs it can be 30 years or around.

Not with mass market retail SSDs.

> Very important for equipment that cannot be easily replaced.

Tiny part of the market now.

> Also note thet the eqipment you reference is not an SSD, but a whole
> box with PSU and the like. The SSD itself may actually have a
> better MTBF then the whole box. It is especially difficult to
> get PSUs with > 500.000h MTBF. It is also expensive to
> measure MTBFs in this range so since you need to operate
> many units for a long time. 500.000h is just about 2% failure
> rate ber year.

MTBF wasnt even being discussed.

>>> Also a cheap USB dongle is technically "solid state"
>>> but does not match classical SSDs in reliability.

>> That comes with no surprise. Do you have any reliabilty info on "USB
>> dongles"?

> No. Just that I and people I know had failures on not too much used
> ones. I solved this by buing branded dongles where the brand name
> may have something to loose. I also copy everything important (like
> slides for a talk I am about to give) to two different dongles.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
a b G Storage
September 13, 2005 2:56:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Previously 123 <123@pam.com> wrote:
> Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Previously Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:3olloqF6ifp1U1@individual.net...
>>>> Previously Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>>>> Solid state is massively more reliable
>>>>
>>>>> Not always:
>>>>> http://www.bitmicro.com/products_edisksan_2U_RAID_fc.ph...
>>>>> ...
>>>>> Pure Solid State/Non-Volatile
>>>>> MTBF - 400,000 Hours
>>>>> +5 to + 35 degrees C
>>>>> 10,000 feet Altitude
>>>>
>>>> Well, yes.

>>> Bitmicro E-Disks are not cheap, yet not massively reliable. Popular
>>> hard drives have better reliabilty.

>> Actually MTBF is only part of the story.

> He didnt say anything about MTBF.

Hey Rod, are you blind? Look 13 lines above.

Arno
!