Urgent reccomendation needed, Canopus vs Matrox

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Hi all,

As usual, I've been asked to make a purchasing decision for some
people in my workplace, and given only a 2 days notice to come up with
a spec + quote and submit it. They're extremely vague about their
requirements, and initially had all sorts of bullshit written down.

Basically, they need to get two systems setup, and one of them has to
be capable of video editing(mostly from analog sources like vcr's),
the other just has to be able to display video at a decent clip(i.e
any decent spec machine on the market today) and for general office
work.

This is based off a uni grant, so basically they have allocated a
certain dollar figure and need to spend it all, to buy the best they
can get with the money, because they wont have any more money to spend
on the systems for several years, basically until they're replaced.

So I want something as future proof as possible. I was looking at
either the Canopus DVstorm2 pro Ultra at around $1900 or the Matrox
rtx10 or rtx100. It seems to make sense to look at those packages
because they include Premiere Pro, which would otherwise costs us $300
seperately to buy. Any thoughts on which of the two is better? From
the specs it seems like the DVstorm2 far outclasses the Matrox
products? I guess with the usage these guys will have it won't matter
that much, more so of import is how simple to setup and use the
products are, and how reliable and future proof they are...

So any thoughts? I need to spec out and quote these systems by
lunchtime monday here in australia (so sunday for you guys in the
USA)...

Also, talking to the store that carries both these products they seem
to stress that they're incompatible with certain motherboards. I rang
Canopus, and they seemed very biased(unfairly so, more like a
religious preference than any defects with the other brands) and were
pushing that I get Intel based machines... What I was looking at to
buy were some nforce2 based systems as they're great value for money
and perform well....

Anyways, I've rambled enough, thanks for any help :)

Jonathan
21 answers Last reply
More about urgent reccomendation needed canopus matrox
  1. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    Jonathan Solomon <barfster@nospammers.iinet.net.au> writes:

    > Also, talking to the store that carries both these products they seem
    > to stress that they're incompatible with certain motherboards. I rang
    > Canopus, and they seemed very biased(unfairly so, more like a
    > religious preference than any defects with the other brands) and were
    > pushing that I get Intel based machines... What I was looking at to
    > buy were some nforce2 based systems as they're great value for money
    > and perform well....

    I've just had my first experience with canopus tools. But at a much
    lower level than you. `Lets edit'. Far as future compatable. Its not
    even compatable with present stuff. I'm unable to use any of my *avi
    files not created in canopus with out converting them with a canopus
    tool.

    I noticed further there add on utils and such have unorthodox install
    routines makeing it hard to know if you've got the darn stuff or not.
    or if its where it needs to be. Seems to have un proffesional bare
    minumum coding.... very sloppy and poorly prepared.

    I'm admittadle a noob at this, but am very unhappy with my first brush
    with canopus, especially since I've seen it pushed on this forum
    several times. I'd really look askance at spending any money on it
    again, let alone the prices you're dealing with.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    > Also, talking to the store that carries both these products they seem
    > to stress that they're incompatible with certain motherboards. I rang
    > Canopus, and they seemed very biased(unfairly so, more like a
    > religious preference than any defects with the other brands) and were
    > pushing that I get Intel based machines... What I was looking at to
    > buy were some nforce2 based systems as they're great value for money
    > and perform well....
    >
    > Anyways, I've rambled enough, thanks for any help :)


    If you want future proof, then I'd get an Intel 875P mobo based computer
    with the Canopus UltraStorm with Premier. Why even take a chance on
    compatibility problems for this long term investment? If you're going to
    drop a couple of grand on a video card, why try to save a few bucks
    elsewhere? The 2.8 gig 875P mobo based box I bought in Jan is are
    already upgradeable to Intel's latest processors and it's just a fact
    that Intel based mobos/chipsets are more stable than any other
    available.

    At this level, I can't imagine any other editing s/w besides Premier
    with the possible exception of Avid ExpressDV, and the learning curve on
    that is steeper than Premier with less user support availability. As
    Brian said, your best research option rather than this ng would be
    dvdrhelp.com, specifically here:

    http://www.dvdrhelp.com/capturecards

    As you can tell, you get widely varying opinions here, based on varying
    levels of experience and skillset. And reader@newsguy.com experience
    with Canopus' rudimentary editing package should have no bearing
    whatsoever on your decision. I'm sorry he's having problems but the s/w
    he's using isn't even in the same _universe_ as what you're considering.
  3. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    I would consider the Canopus option - having recently got a Raptor RT2max
    bundled with Edius2. Yes there are hardware issues with some motherboards
    but if you goto the canopus form or website you can get info on boards that
    are fine. The intel based boards always seem much more stable to the
    hardware so a 865 or 875 chipset board will be more compatible than others -
    but others do work! Do they have to use Premiere? A big learning curve and
    not IMHO the best edit app to use.

    The Storm IMHO outperfoms the RTX100 but others might disagree.

    In regard to reader Lets edit is a very basic piece of software that does do
    the job. I'm sorry to here the probs - goto the canopus form and help will
    be given.

    However to judge the whole of canopus' editing systems on your experience so
    far of Lets edit is a bit ridiculous.
  4. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    "Paul Harrison" <postmaster@paulharrison.f9.co.uk> writes:

    > However to judge the whole of canopus' editing systems on your experience so
    > far of Lets edit is a bit ridiculous.

    Perhaps you missed some of my post..

    > I've just had my first experience with canopus tools. But at a much
    > lower level than you.

    > I'm admittedy [ed -hp (spelling corrected)] a noob at this, but am
    > very unhappy with my first brush with canopus, especially since I've
    > seen it pushed on this forum

    Adequate commentary was provided to allow any reader, (even you) to
    see the depth [very little] of my knowledge..

    What is ridiculous is to pretend you didn't notice, so as to allow
    yourself to render such sage advice.

    As you pointed out, `Lets Edit' is their most basic tool. If they
    can't get that right, its a good indication of what to expect.

    And the fact that no warning is given in their sales pitches tells me
    the intent to fleece is there. Or at a minimum, no care went into
    that either.
  5. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    >I've just had my first experience with canopus tools. But at a much
    >lower level than you. `Lets edit'.

    What version are you using, hardware or sotware only? I'm using the hardware
    version and it's an exceptional product for the price and extremely stable.

    >Its not even compatable with present stuff. I'm unable to use any of my *avi
    >files not created in canopus with out converting them with a canopus
    >tool.

    I've not had any problems with this using AVI files created with Pinnacle or
    Roxio products, as long as I use the free conversion program available from
    Canopus. What other programs do you use that provide free conversion software?

    As to installation - at least in my case it was easy and without issue.

    The Canopus forums on their site are great and very useful. Almost 95% of the
    problems posted there are user error, and corrected with a day with posts from
    more knowledgeable users or the Canopus support statff.

    I really like the Let's Edit RT+ hardware and software. I'm a newbe too, and
    for the price, I couldn't anything that offered all of these features at this
    price.


    KevinONeil@AOL.Com
    Images and Articles on Techniques at:
    http://www.Eastern-Light.com
  6. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    kevinoneil@aol.com (KevinONeil) writes:

    >>I've just had my first experience with canopus tools. But at a much
    >>lower level than you. `Lets edit'.
    >

    > What version are you using, hardware or sotware only? I'm using the
    > hardware version and it's an exceptional product for the price and
    > extremely stable.

    It was newest release about 2-3 wks ago. Now there have been 2
    updates. I've installed both, so currently 1.6 I think (can't check
    right now) An update of *something 6 was just released a few days ago.
    I understood it would allow users to use *avi produced by pinnacle
    without conversion. Mine are still unusable... I get really bad
    audio... very staticy.

    >>Its not even compatable with present stuff. I'm unable to use any
    >>of my *avi files not created in canopus with out converting them
    >>with a canopus tool.
    >
    > I've not had any problems with this using AVI files created with
    > Pinnacle or Roxio products, as long as I use the free conversion
    > program available from Canopus. What other programs do you use that
    > provide free conversion software?

    There are many free converters of various formats to various
    others. Two nice ones that come to mind are `FooBar2000', and
    `dbPowerAmp'. To be sure these are not intended to convert *avi, but
    only audio files.

    As I posted, yes there are conversion tools. Adding more work to
    the process. I'm not sure I should go all gaga about it being free.
    Why is it even necessary? From what I saw posted by
    Susan, that has been an issue with this package for a very long
    time. Before it was called `Lets Edit'.

    At risk, at this point of becoming a high pitched sniveler... I still
    think a few more comments are in order. But let me make one thing
    clear. I would be very happy to be skilled enough to get good usage
    out of `Lets edit' The fact that I'm not does not relieve them of
    the burden of living up to there advertising.

    > As to installation - at least in my case it was easy and without
    > issue.

    I made no comments about installation of `Lets edit'. Yes it was
    straightforward. My comments were about the addon utils etc. They
    seem to be barely prepared for installation. In some cases I wasn't
    sure if the codec or other tool had landed where it was supposed to
    go or what.

    > The Canopus forums on their site are great and very useful. Almost
    > 95% of the problems posted there are user error, and corrected with
    > a day with posts from more knowledgeable users or the Canopus
    > support statff.

    They do have good forums..

    But consider your comments .. 95% of problems are user error. That is
    incredable. It would seem to point out quite loudly that something is
    wrong with it. Or either you're saying 95% of problems are had by
    complete morons.

    > I really like the Let's Edit RT+ hardware and software. I'm a newbe
    > too, and for the price, I couldn't anything that offered all of
    > these features at this price.

    I didn't get the hardware since I already had capture devices and
    software. When you say `and software' do you mean there is software
    that is not included in stand alone `Lets Edit'?

    I guess I assumed naively that an *avi would perform the same
    whereever it was created. Some indication of my lack of knowledge on
    this. I hadn't even been aware that there were different kinds of
    avi files.

    My sole experience before `Lets edit' was pinnacle 8 and pinnacle 8
    updated. And I might add, very little actual use of those tools.
    What does `Lets Edit' do that Pinnacle (Studio 8) does not?

    I know there have been many tirades here about pinnacle but I'm one of
    those people who didn't notice all the problems. Perhaps because I
    don't know how to put it through its paces yet. I'm still at the
    stage of `Golly, I didn't know you could do that'
  7. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    Jonathan Solomon <barfster@nospammers.iinet.net.au> wrote:

    >Hi all,
    >
    >As usual, I've been asked to make a purchasing decision for some
    >people in my workplace, and given only a 2 days notice to come up with
    >a spec + quote and submit it. They're extremely vague about their
    >requirements, and initially had all sorts of bullshit written down.
    >
    >Basically, they need to get two systems setup, and one of them has to
    >be capable of video editing(mostly from analog sources like vcr's),
    >the other just has to be able to display video at a decent clip(i.e
    >any decent spec machine on the market today) and for general office
    >work.
    >
    >This is based off a uni grant, so basically they have allocated a
    >certain dollar figure and need to spend it all, to buy the best they
    >can get with the money, because they wont have any more money to spend
    >on the systems for several years, basically until they're replaced.
    >
    >So I want something as future proof as possible. I was looking at
    >either the Canopus DVstorm2 pro Ultra at around $1900 or the Matrox
    >rtx10 or rtx100. It seems to make sense to look at those packages
    >because they include Premiere Pro, which would otherwise costs us $300
    >seperately to buy. Any thoughts on which of the two is better? From
    >the specs it seems like the DVstorm2 far outclasses the Matrox
    >products? I guess with the usage these guys will have it won't matter
    >that much, more so of import is how simple to setup and use the
    >products are, and how reliable and future proof they are...
    >
    >So any thoughts? I need to spec out and quote these systems by
    >lunchtime monday here in australia (so sunday for you guys in the
    >USA)...
    >
    >Also, talking to the store that carries both these products they seem
    >to stress that they're incompatible with certain motherboards. I rang
    >Canopus, and they seemed very biased(unfairly so, more like a
    >religious preference than any defects with the other brands) and were
    >pushing that I get Intel based machines... What I was looking at to
    >buy were some nforce2 based systems as they're great value for money
    >and perform well....
    >
    >Anyways, I've rambled enough, thanks for any help :)
    >
    >Jonathan

    Due to the cost not many people would use Canopus DVstorm2 pro Ultra.
    I'd suggest going to www.dvdrhelp.com where you can get user comments
    and ratings on the products you are thinking of buying. If your in a
    hurry then doing your own research at this site would be quicker.

    Regards Brian
  8. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 11:14:44 -0500, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com>
    wrote:

    >As you pointed out, `Lets Edit' is their most basic tool. If they
    >can't get that right, its a good indication of what to expect.

    Canopus has easily the best reputation among manufacturers of
    low/mid-range capture-cards (they don't make high-end stuff). They
    were always quick with patches. I don't know LE, and have played a
    little with Edius, but both of them are fairly new products, and have
    to be developed a little further. Usually, and I don't say that it is
    your case to, people don't follow the recommended hardware-specs and
    run into problems, and blame the manufacturer for a poor piece of
    hardware/software, which could easily be avoided. Canopus has proven
    to be working among a broad range of hardware, but it will have issues
    once in a while too. Re their manuals, yes they are poor. I don't
    think they have enough translators in Japan.

    cheers

    -martin-

    --
    filmmaker/DP/editor/filmschool techie
    Sydney, Australia

    "The world is on the move. Adopt, adapt, survive."
  9. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    > Canopus has easily the best reputation among manufacturers of
    > low/mid-range capture-cards (they don't make high-end stuff). They

    If you don't consider the Storm2 Pro a high-end product, I'd certainly
    like to know what card you use.
  10. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 22:13:28 -0400, "Morrmar" <morrmar@myway.com-no
    spam> wrote:

    >If you don't consider the Storm2 Pro a high-end product, I'd certainly
    >like to know what card you use.

    What I consider high-end, is features like you find on cards like for
    instance the AJA or Decklink-cards, like component I/O, SDI, 10-bit
    video, AES/EBU audio, able to do uncompressed, those kind of things.
    While the S2P is certainly a nice card, it's not a competitor in the
    high-end editing industry.
    To answer your question, privately I use a Storm 1, and a generic
    firewire-card, while at work I use Matrox Digisuite LE (well overdue
    now), and generic firewire on a Mac.

    cheers

    -martin-

    --
    filmmaker/DP/editor/filmschool techie
    Sydney, Australia

    "The world is on the move. Adopt, adapt, survive."
  11. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    > While the S2P is certainly a nice card, it's not a competitor in the
    > high-end editing industry.

    I sometimes forget there are a few real professionals here in a rec ng.
    As I frequently say, everything depends on the perspective from which
    you view a subject.

    Take Care
  12. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    "Harry Putnam" <reader@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:m3fzb29lvx.fsf@newsguy.com...
    [snip]
    > My sole experience before `Lets edit' was pinnacle 8 and pinnacle 8
    > updated. And I might add, very little actual use of those tools.
    > What does `Lets Edit' do that Pinnacle (Studio 8) does not?

    Chromakeying, for one thing.
  13. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:21:35 +1000, Jonathan Solomon
    <barfster@nospammers.iinet.net.au> wrote:

    >Hi all,
    >
    >As usual, I've been asked to make a purchasing decision for some
    >people in my workplace, and given only a 2 days notice to come up with
    >a spec + quote and submit it. They're extremely vague about their
    >requirements, and initially had all sorts of bullshit written down.
    >
    >Basically, they need to get two systems setup, and one of them has to
    >be capable of video editing(mostly from analog sources like vcr's),
    >the other just has to be able to display video at a decent clip(i.e
    >any decent spec machine on the market today) and for general office
    >work.
    >
    >This is based off a uni grant, so basically they have allocated a
    >certain dollar figure and need to spend it all, to buy the best they
    >can get with the money, because they wont have any more money to spend
    >on the systems for several years, basically until they're replaced.
    >
    >So I want something as future proof as possible. I was looking at
    >either the Canopus DVstorm2 pro Ultra at around $1900 or the Matrox
    >rtx10 or rtx100. It seems to make sense to look at those packages
    >because they include Premiere Pro, which would otherwise costs us $300
    >seperately to buy. Any thoughts on which of the two is better? From
    >the specs it seems like the DVstorm2 far outclasses the Matrox
    >products? I guess with the usage these guys will have it won't matter
    >that much, more so of import is how simple to setup and use the
    >products are, and how reliable and future proof they are...
    >
    >So any thoughts? I need to spec out and quote these systems by
    >lunchtime monday here in australia (so sunday for you guys in the
    >USA)...
    >
    >Also, talking to the store that carries both these products they seem
    >to stress that they're incompatible with certain motherboards. I rang
    >Canopus, and they seemed very biased(unfairly so, more like a
    >religious preference than any defects with the other brands) and were
    >pushing that I get Intel based machines... What I was looking at to
    >buy were some nforce2 based systems as they're great value for money
    >and perform well....

    First thing, digital video eats CPU power like nothing else. Top of
    the line Intel P4 is probably your best bet for power and
    compatibility with these cards. AMD's only edge is in the 64 bit
    arena, but compatibility there is a worry. The cost of your video
    editing hardware and software will exceed the basic box cost anyway,
    so no reason to skimp on the CPU.

    Canopus offers a wider range of edit options and features. With
    Matrox you're locked into Premiere, which isn't fatal but does limit
    things -- especially for new users without the time to master
    Premiere, which isn't the easiest program to learn.

    Either one will generate output to tape or mpeg2 fairly well. Both
    offer fine real time editing to analog, so for basic edits there won't
    be a lot of difference.

    For both, you might want to look into turnkey systems from video
    dealers -- card and computer bundled together, already set up. RT
    video cards are among the trickiest to install and setup of all
    hardware.

    --
    *-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
    ** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
    *Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>
  14. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 11:14:44 -0500, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com>
    wrote:

    >
    >As you pointed out, `Lets Edit' is their most basic tool. If they
    >can't get that right, its a good indication of what to expect.

    Well, maybe. Canopus generally has an excellent reputation. Their
    ADVC-100 box is one of the very few pieces of equipment that nobody
    has a bad word to say about. (Well, there's always SOMEONE... But you
    get my drift :-)

    I suspect someone said "We need an entry-level editing package in our
    catalogue" and they just bought in something.


    Your situation seems to call for a "supply and maintain" deal with a
    specialist. How did the department get the impression you were
    expert? Rather than take the rap for a bad decision, say "I don't
    know. But I know someone who does!".
  15. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 12:14:54 -0400, "Morrmar" <morrmar@myway.com-no
    spam> wrote:

    >I sometimes forget there are a few real professionals here in a rec ng.
    >As I frequently say, everything depends on the perspective from which
    >you view a subject.

    Oh, don't get me wrong. A videographer who makes money shooting
    weddings and cutting them using a e.g. Storm, is a professional too,
    imho. That's why I spoke about high-end, in stead of professional.

    cheers

    -martin-

    --
    filmmaker/DP/editor/filmschool techie
    Sydney, Australia

    "The world is on the move. Adopt, adapt, survive."
  16. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    "Jonathan Solomon" <barfster@nospammers.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
    news:f94280t39jmbr0mg34il1nbresk221hlei@4ax.com...
    > Hi all,

    I always find it interesting when people come in and say they need
    _immediate_ help and never come back.
  17. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    "Morrmar" <morrmar@myway.com-no spam> wrote in message news:EyQgc.35560$ux4.5929@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
    > "Jonathan Solomon" <barfster@nospammers.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
    > news:f94280t39jmbr0mg34il1nbresk221hlei@4ax.com...
    > > Hi all,
    >
    > I always find it interesting when people come in and say they need
    > _immediate_ help and never come back.


    I guess we just weren't fast enough for him...
  18. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    In article <816480luj63fmk7j9seh84r91bvss40nb1@4ax.com>, Martin Heffels says...
    >

    And of course, I spoke too soon :) Canopus has introduced the Edius-HD turnkey
    editing system at the NAB (currently underway in Las Vegas). It features a
    HD/SDI-card. A promising addition in the world of HD and high-end, but of
    course, seeing is believing.

    cheers

    -martin-

    "better to let them do it imperfectly than to do it perfectly yourself, for it
    is their country … and your time is short" T.E. Lawrence
  19. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    Hi guys,

    I *have* been reading your posts every day :)

    I took one of the original posters advice and checked up the ratings
    on dvdrhelp.com, which were pretty much all *glowing*, and then a few
    followup posters here kept expressing their utmost faith in Canopus's
    mid-range products, so I bit the bullet and am going with the DVStorm.
    With the educational discount we receive on it, the price ended up
    being about $250 more than the Matrox RTX100 package, and that's for
    the Ultra version of the DVS2, which has the drivebay and all the
    bundled Adobe programs.

    After calling Canopus Australia, and seeing on a few other places that
    people have been pleased with it paired with the Abit IC7Max3(I think
    that's the model number? the deluxe 875 intel chipset one) I've
    ordered two systems based on that. The only thing I was a stickler for
    was that I chose Radeon cards over NVIDIA gear... according to the USA
    web site the Radeons are certified, and after NVIDIA's recent debacles
    of the past year, and the fact that Radeon cards have served me well
    at home, I couldn't bear to buy any of their products. The Canopus
    people down in Melbourne couldn't really put forward a REASON why they
    didn't like the Radeons, and the impression I got was that they didn't
    even bother trying any of the recent models, they just have a
    religious preference for NVIDIA :)

    I'll be sure to post in a few weeks time once things are all up and
    running(hopefully... I might be back sooner with problems) and let you
    all know how my experiences went. This is going to be my first ever
    experiencing with video editing on a pc, so I hope things don't go to
    awry :)

    Thanks again to all who replied,

    Jonathan

    On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:39:27 -0400, "Morrmar" <morrmar@myway.com-no
    spam> wrote:

    >"Jonathan Solomon" <barfster@nospammers.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
    >news:f94280t39jmbr0mg34il1nbresk221hlei@4ax.com...
    >> Hi all,
    >
    >I always find it interesting when people come in and say they need
    >_immediate_ help and never come back.
    >
  20. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    > I'll be sure to post in a few weeks time once things are all up and
    > running(hopefully... I might be back sooner with problems) and let you
    > all know how my experiences went. This is going to be my first ever
    > experiencing with video editing on a pc, so I hope things don't go to
    > awry :)


    Glad you came back and gave us an update.

    Good luck!
  21. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    I bought a DVstorm 2 which I am currently editing my second low budget feature
    film with, and I'm certainly happy.

    Of course, I'm coming from a Pinnacle DC30 Pro, so...
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