Is DV up there?

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You shoot a 45 min documentary on DV, and everything
is as good as it's posible to do in that format. Pictures, sound,
are excellent. You do a very nice edit on Avid Xpress DV or something,
and then you get a pro sound guy to do a very professional mix &
mastering session. You now have a winner.

Question: Is this something a media company, major network - whatever,
would be interested in buying? I mean, is DV a viable format if
you've got your eye on broadcast material?

John.
 
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"Allpurpose" <johnshea99@yahoo.comm> wrote in message
news:3PINGK5E38123.4137847222@anonymous.poster...
> You shoot a 45 min documentary on DV, and everything
> is as good as it's posible to do in that format. Pictures, sound,
> are excellent. You do a very nice edit on Avid Xpress DV or something,
> and then you get a pro sound guy to do a very professional mix &
> mastering session. You now have a winner.
>
> Question: Is this something a media company, major network - whatever,
> would be interested in buying? I mean, is DV a viable format if
> you've got your eye on broadcast material?
>
> John.

Only if the "broadcast material" warrants the use of that particular format.
And the production values (professionalism of the crew, imagery, audio, and
post production) are of the highest quality available and suitable for the
production will you have a chance. UNLESS the idea is so absolutely
wonderful, that shooting it in any other format or fashion would take away
from the final product and ruin the whole concept.

The flood gates are now open.

Bill F.
www.billfarnsworthvideo.com
 
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"Allpurpose" <johnshea99@yahoo.comm> wrote in message
news:3PINGK5E38123.4137847222@anonymous.poster...
> You shoot a 45 min documentary on DV, and everything
> is as good as it's posible to do in that format. Pictures, sound,
> are excellent. You do a very nice edit on Avid Xpress DV or something,
> and then you get a pro sound guy to do a very professional mix &
> mastering session. You now have a winner.
>
> Question: Is this something a media company, major network - whatever,
> would be interested in buying? I mean, is DV a viable format if
> you've got your eye on broadcast material?
>
> John.

I spoke with a Discovery channel producer yesterday about new formats like
HDV and the lot....she says they are actually still airing some NEW shows
that have elements that are being shot on Hi-8! I think anything goes these
days. It's not the format as much as the content when it get's right down to
it.
 
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: Question: Is this something a media company, major network - whatever,
: would be interested in buying? I mean, is DV a viable format if
: you've got your eye on broadcast material?

Yes, the networks use DV all the time. However, they'll probably ask for a
play back master on Beta SP, or Digital Betacam. Be prepared to offer them
that.

-Brian
 
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here in oz, i regularly supply stations with dvcam (originated on dv)
masters, and for some stations, dvd...

leslie


"brian a. henderson" <bah@nautilus.shore.net> wrote in message
news:X_Rpc.130$747.37@nntp-post.primus.ca...
> : Question: Is this something a media company, major network - whatever,
> : would be interested in buying? I mean, is DV a viable format if
> : you've got your eye on broadcast material?
>
> Yes, the networks use DV all the time. However, they'll probably ask for a
> play back master on Beta SP, or Digital Betacam. Be prepared to offer them
> that.
>
> -Brian
>
 
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"Charles Tomaras" <tomaras@tomaras.com> wrote in message
news:EcOdnaK0wahlrzXdRVn-gg@comcast.com...

> I spoke with a Discovery channel producer yesterday about new formats like
> HDV and the lot....she says they are actually still airing some NEW shows
> that have elements that are being shot on Hi-8! I think anything goes
these
> days. It's not the format as much as the content when it get's right down
to
> it.

As you say, if your content is special they might still prefer a "better"
format, but they'll more likely accept the lesser. It's ironic sometimes
that is seems that the more run of the mill your content the higher standard
your format has to be.

Gary
 
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> You shoot a 45 min documentary on DV, and everything
> is as good as it's posible to do in that format. Pictures, sound,
> are excellent. You do a very nice edit on Avid Xpress DV or something,
> and then you get a pro sound guy to do a very professional mix &
> mastering session. You now have a winner.

You speak of all this as if actually DOING all this stuff was easy. I
can assure you that producing execellent pictures and sound and recording
and mixing excellent sound are much more difficult to actually accomplish
than just saying it, as you have done in this post.

I only mention this because your question is kind of like asking how much a
new Ferrari costs - - it reveals how much you don't know. i.e. If you
actually knew how _do_ all this stuff, then you'd be aware of the
limintations of the format, and most likely - - unless you've been working
in a large compartmentalized "factory model" production house - - you'd
have an idea of the potential marketability of your work. You'd know whose
buying it now, who you oculd reasonably expect to pitch it to, etc. You'd
be a subsciber to the trade press, and know who has done what you're
proposing, and have an idea of the direction you're headed.

Here's the point : many in the industry labor our whole careers without
ever producing anything that ever airs on national TV. And we make a good
living at it.

And here's the advice : Don't worry about your format. Just work on your
skills with whatever format you have available to you. Your skills - - or
lack thereof - - will be plain to the folks who evaluate your work. Work
your way up the format chain as you go. Sell your skills and ideas to
anyone who can help you further those skills and ideas.

Steve

P. S. See my other post as well. It talks about the specific gear.






> Question: Is this something a media company, major network - whatever,
> would be interested in buying? I mean, is DV a viable format if
> you've got your eye on broadcast material?
>
> John.
>
>
 
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For documentary work, the content is king. The trick is in finding someone
who buys shows who is also interested in what you are producing. Format is
a second-tier issue. Especially if you are weak in that area, don't lead
with it. When they ask, turn it around and ask them what they prefer. Then
do your negotiating. Gauge their interest and see if it would be worth
buying any gear you don't have. Don't buy anything you don't already have
until you see if you can sell the work produced with that gear for more than
with your current setup. Anyone who advises otherwise is trying to sell you
something.

As to specific gear, here's my experience : (Granted, it's not long-form
documentary work, but it IS broadcast.)

We routinely work for most of the various crewing agencies that supply crews
for national broadcasters like ESPN, CNN, Outdoor Channel, Harpo, and all
the rest of the tabloids.

NEVER have they called to ask if we can shoot on DV or DVCam. (Or HDV, or
Digibeta, or D-9, for that matter). On the occasions I've pitched it - -
most recently a couple of weeks ago to Inside Edition - - they demurred a
bit and then said no, they'd drop the story if they couldn't get it shot on
Beta SP.

Beta SP still is the de-facto standard. here's a reasonable kit for
freelance broadcast work :

- Some flavor of Beta SP. (Could be a UVW-100 or a BVW-600, it doesn't
seem to matter to the booker)
- An audio package with at least the following : mixer (preferably some
model of Shure mixer that starts with FP), 2 wireless lavs, a stick mic of
some kind, and a shotgun with a boom
- Some kind of light kit (Lowell or better) Flags and reflectors
recommended.
- Some kind of pretty good tripod


Steve



"Allpurpose" <johnshea99@yahoo.comm> wrote in message
news:3PINGK5E38123.4137847222@anonymous.poster...
> You shoot a 45 min documentary on DV, and everything
> is as good as it's posible to do in that format. Pictures, sound,
> are excellent. You do a very nice edit on Avid Xpress DV or something,
> and then you get a pro sound guy to do a very professional mix &
> mastering session. You now have a winner.
>
> Question: Is this something a media company, major network - whatever,
> would be interested in buying? I mean, is DV a viable format if
> you've got your eye on broadcast material?
>
> John.
>
>
 

Toby

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Apr 7, 2004
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I think that Steve has pretty much hit the nail on the head. Here are a few
further thoughts:

You will find some places which won't consider DV, but others will. There is
no getting around the fact that DV is inferior in picture quality to SP or
other pro formats (SX, DVCPro, DigiBeta, etc.), even using the best
"prosumer" cams. This is based not on the encoding, but mostly on the fact
that pro cameras use bigger CCD chips, have better signal processing, etc. I
have done a number of split-screen tests and the evidence is there,
especially when shooting under optimum conditions such as bright sunlight.
DV can't keep up.

The problem is exacerbated if you need to post the video. Start copying that
4:1:1 or 4:2:0 stuff a few generations and things fall apart quickly. That
being said, in the absence of better video (i.e., intercut scenes shot on
pro formats), the eye can get used to DV quite easily. You may not even
realize that you are watching DV unless you have the comparison.

The bigger problem has to do with *what* you use to capture that bitstream
with. Even the best prosumer cams don't cut it, really. Smooth zooms are a
joke, as is positive manual focus: autofocus only gets you so far, and that
is actually not very far at all. Handheld shots and walking shots are a
joke--the small size and weight eliminates the inertial effects that make
those kinds of shots acceptable when shot with full sized on-the-shoulder
cams--kind of like the difference between an ocean liner and a sloop in
choppy seas. Lens focal length and zoom options are also *much* more
limited. Smooth iris controls do not exist--it is electronically stepped.

So even if you can get acceptable video under certain conditions, those
conditions are extremely limited. You would be handicapping youself in a
major way--even with the best camera skills in the world--by trying to get
in the market using only DV.

Toby
"Steve Guidry" <steveguidrynospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:BF4qc.4457$SZ4.1853@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> For documentary work, the content is king. The trick is in finding
someone
> who buys shows who is also interested in what you are producing. Format
is
> a second-tier issue. Especially if you are weak in that area, don't lead
> with it. When they ask, turn it around and ask them what they prefer.
Then
> do your negotiating. Gauge their interest and see if it would be worth
> buying any gear you don't have. Don't buy anything you don't already have
> until you see if you can sell the work produced with that gear for more
than
> with your current setup. Anyone who advises otherwise is trying to sell
you
> something.
>
> As to specific gear, here's my experience : (Granted, it's not long-form
> documentary work, but it IS broadcast.)
>
> We routinely work for most of the various crewing agencies that supply
crews
> for national broadcasters like ESPN, CNN, Outdoor Channel, Harpo, and all
> the rest of the tabloids.
>
> NEVER have they called to ask if we can shoot on DV or DVCam. (Or HDV,
or
> Digibeta, or D-9, for that matter). On the occasions I've pitched it - -
> most recently a couple of weeks ago to Inside Edition - - they demurred a
> bit and then said no, they'd drop the story if they couldn't get it shot
on
> Beta SP.
>
> Beta SP still is the de-facto standard. here's a reasonable kit for
> freelance broadcast work :
>
> - Some flavor of Beta SP. (Could be a UVW-100 or a BVW-600, it doesn't
> seem to matter to the booker)
> - An audio package with at least the following : mixer (preferably some
> model of Shure mixer that starts with FP), 2 wireless lavs, a stick mic of
> some kind, and a shotgun with a boom
> - Some kind of light kit (Lowell or better) Flags and reflectors
> recommended.
> - Some kind of pretty good tripod
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> "Allpurpose" <johnshea99@yahoo.comm> wrote in message
> news:3PINGK5E38123.4137847222@anonymous.poster...
> > You shoot a 45 min documentary on DV, and everything
> > is as good as it's posible to do in that format. Pictures, sound,
> > are excellent. You do a very nice edit on Avid Xpress DV or something,
> > and then you get a pro sound guy to do a very professional mix &
> > mastering session. You now have a winner.
> >
> > Question: Is this something a media company, major network - whatever,
> > would be interested in buying? I mean, is DV a viable format if
> > you've got your eye on broadcast material?
> >
> > John.
> >
> >
>
>
 
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>You speak of all this as if actually DOING all this stuff was easy.

>I only mention this because your question -
>it reveals how much you don't know.

>i.e. If you actually knew how _do_ all this stuff -

You're very modest, aren't you.
 
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Well John, actually - - yes, I am.

Read the rest of my posts in this NG, and you'll see that you've probably
jumped to an erroneous conclusion.

I don't pretend to be an expert at all of the stuff I do. Rather, I'm a
practitioner, and I hope to be better tomorrow than I am today. Some of the
stuff in the original poster's list I'm pretty good at. Others, I'm only
passable. Still others, I have to hire someone with the exact skills.

My point in the post to which you refer (and the others I made to that
thread) was that the format is a secondary issue. DV may or may not be
suitable for his project. It depends on what the content is, and the
network or other entity he's trying to sell it to.

Steve

> You're very modest, aren't you.
>
>



> >You speak of all this as if actually DOING all this stuff was easy.
>
> >I only mention this because your question -
> >it reveals how much you don't know.
>
> >i.e. If you actually knew how _do_ all this stuff -
>
 
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>Read the rest of my posts in this NG, and you'll see that you've probably
>jumped to an erroneous conclusion.

I think *you* jumped to an erroneous conclusion, when you read my post,
and, you assumed I was an amateur newbie. Actually, I shoot for a living, but,
I use Digibeta, mostly Beta SP, and very occasionally DVCAM (which I'm not that
familar with). Funny thing, four days ago, I had an assignment shooting a
piece on Police Helicopter patrols, on DVCAM. The results were very pleasing.
I was quite impressed with the quality of the image under fluorescent lighting
(don't ask).

The idea behind my post was to open up the discussion in terms of shoestring
DV production, a subject which my post indicates I'm not familar with at all.
I know its been done to death, but I was hoping to tease out responses from guys
who had done some good work with this 'prosumer' format.

I know very well, believe me, "that producing execellent pictures and
sound and recording and mixing excellent sound are much more difficult to
actually accomplish than just saying it.."

Tell me about it.

John.