Are Hauppauge cards the best for capturing from DTV?

kev

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I've heard good things about the Hauppauge TV Tuner cards, but I'd like
some advice from those who have experience capturing from sat tv.
A friend of mine used one of the Canopus converters to capture from
Satellite and the videos looked somewhat soft--loss of sharpness, I assume
it's because of the extra DV compression. So, I think it would be best to
capture with an excellent TV tuner card using HuffyUV, and capture the audio
seperately to another HD so as to avoid sync problems, would that be the way
to do it?


Another question:

Is there a need for filters on a Satellite capture? Being that a video
captured from sat tv is 'clean', why would there be a need to apply noise
filters? Can it just go directly into dvd burning?

Thank you in advance.
 
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> I've heard good things about the Hauppauge TV Tuner cards, but I'd like
> some advice from those who have experience capturing from sat tv.
> A friend of mine used one of the Canopus converters to capture from
> Satellite and the videos looked somewhat soft--loss of sharpness, I assume
> it's because of the extra DV compression. So, I think it would be best to
> capture with an excellent TV tuner card using HuffyUV, and capture the audio
> seperately to another HD so as to avoid sync problems, would that be the way
> to do it?

I have just installed a Hauppauge PVR-250 / Beyond-TV combo in my
Pentium 4 1.5GHz PC (from Dell) on last Saturday to capture TV shows
from DirecTV. If I set the video quality to "Good", I can see that the
picture can be a bit soft. But if I set the video quality to "Best", I
can see that the picture becomes sharp; actually, I should say it is
sharp "enough" for me; my eyes are just not that good to tell the
difference between a very good picture and a very-very-very good
picture. I have not tried the two "DVD Quality" video capturing
settings yet; I don't know if these two settings will be better or
less than the "Best" setting.

Hauppauge PVR-350 comes with a S-video output port, and it comes with
hardware MPEG decoder. But I heard that Beyond-TV doesn't support that
port (as of now not sure if it supports it in the next version), and
it costs more than PVR-250. If you intend to keep your video card, you
may consider getting the PVR-350. But you need to compare the cost of
buying Hauppauge PVR-350 and Beyond-TV separately, and the cost of
buying the combo of Hauppauge PVR-250 with Beyond-TV. The latter
option is much cheaper. You will have to work out the numbers.

I don't know anything about HuffyUV.

I don't know anything about capturing video and audio separately. I
just use the "default" setting, and I don't hear anything unusual
about the audio. But I am no audio-expert.

> Is there a need for filters on a Satellite capture? Being that a video
> captured from sat tv is 'clean', why would there be a need to apply noise
> filters? Can it just go directly into dvd burning?

I don't know. Hopefully, experts in this area can help you with these.

Hope you will get your PC-PVR working soon. As of my PVR, I am still
testing it. At this point, I am not sure whether I should recommend it
or not to other people. But I know it works for me, and I intend to
keep it (and retire the VCR).

Jay Chan
 
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No. Get a Canopus ADVC (I have the 100 one) along with good quality
cables (I have MIT cables, see www.mitcables.com). If you are going
to be editing and burning onto DVDs, you really want to capture to DV
anyway. I don't think the Hauppauge's do that.

K

"kev" <tkevbell1@att.worldnet> wrote in message news:<cc64b85a67a3032c8ea7ee136234dd87@news.teranews.com>...
> I've heard good things about the Hauppauge TV Tuner cards, but I'd like
> some advice from those who have experience capturing from sat tv.
> A friend of mine used one of the Canopus converters to capture from
> Satellite and the videos looked somewhat soft--loss of sharpness, I assume
> it's because of the extra DV compression. So, I think it would be best to
> capture with an excellent TV tuner card using HuffyUV, and capture the audio
> seperately to another HD so as to avoid sync problems, would that be the way
> to do it?
>
>
> Another question:
>
> Is there a need for filters on a Satellite capture? Being that a video
> captured from sat tv is 'clean', why would there be a need to apply noise
> filters? Can it just go directly into dvd burning?
>
> Thank you in advance.
 
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On a sunny day (Mon, 17 May 2004 07:41:05 GMT) it happened "kev"
<tkevbell1@att.worldnet> wrote in
<cc64b85a67a3032c8ea7ee136234dd87@news.teranews.com>:

> I've heard good things about the Hauppauge TV Tuner cards, but I'd like
>some advice from those who have experience capturing from sat tv.
>A friend of mine used one of the Canopus converters to capture from
>Satellite and the videos looked somewhat soft--loss of sharpness, I assume
>it's because of the extra DV compression. So, I think it would be best to
>capture with an excellent TV tuner card using HuffyUV, and capture the audio
>seperately to another HD so as to avoid sync problems, would that be the way
>to do it?
I am about to scream, but alas, the DTV in that, the D stands for DIGITAL
So, and the DIGIOTAL is in MPEG2 format.
AND you can record that directlky to disk as a DIGITAL signal.
So I never want to hear about this HuffyUV again, comprendere?



>
>Another question:
>
>Is there a need for filters on a Satellite capture? Being that a video
>captured from sat tv is 'clean', why would there be a need to apply noise
>filters? Can it just go directly into dvd burning?
>
>Thank you in advance.
Your authoring program would at least have to accept the MPEG2 and the
digital audio, since I dunno where you are, AC3 in the US should work.
In Europe it is mainly mp2

Some DVD authoring programs may want to demux, that will make the process
slow.
The Hauppauge cards like the Nexus are OK, but they may change spec without
notice.
I can only speak for European DTV.

If you use a converter to first get analog from the sat receiver, then encode
it again in real time to mpeg2, you always lose quality.

JP
 
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"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c8aq5n$om1$1@news.epidc.co.kr...
> On a sunny day (Mon, 17 May 2004 07:41:05 GMT) it happened "kev"
> <tkevbell1@att.worldnet> wrote in
> <cc64b85a67a3032c8ea7ee136234dd87@news.teranews.com>:
>
> > I've heard good things about the Hauppauge TV Tuner cards, but I'd
like
> >some advice from those who have experience capturing from sat tv.
> >A friend of mine used one of the Canopus converters to capture from
> >Satellite and the videos looked somewhat soft--loss of sharpness, I
assume
> >it's because of the extra DV compression. So, I think it would be best to
> >capture with an excellent TV tuner card using HuffyUV, and capture the
audio
> >seperately to another HD so as to avoid sync problems, would that be the
way
> >to do it?
> I am about to scream, but alas, the DTV in that, the D stands for DIGITAL
> So, and the DIGIOTAL is in MPEG2 format.
> AND you can record that directlky to disk as a DIGITAL signal.
> So I never want to hear about this HuffyUV again, comprendere?
>
>
>
> >
> >Another question:
> >
> >Is there a need for filters on a Satellite capture? Being that a video
> >captured from sat tv is 'clean', why would there be a need to apply noise
> >filters? Can it just go directly into dvd burning?
> >
> >Thank you in advance.
> Your authoring program would at least have to accept the MPEG2 and the
> digital audio, since I dunno where you are, AC3 in the US should work.
> In Europe it is mainly mp2
>
> Some DVD authoring programs may want to demux, that will make the process
> slow.
> The Hauppauge cards like the Nexus are OK, but they may change spec
without
> notice.
> I can only speak for European DTV.
>
> If you use a converter to first get analog from the sat receiver, then
encode
> it again in real time to mpeg2, you always lose quality.
>
> JP

I can't speak to European DTV, but the DirecTv that is provided
to the USA is not totally DVD compliant. So far, the "Digital" part
is not easily available to a consumer. Even the "Linux" based "TY
Files" that are placed on a "DirecTiVo" unit's hard drive, which are
basically just the digital satellite signal and are MPEG in nature, are
not DVD compliant, as I understand it.

It would be great if an actual Digital Video output were provided
from the satellite receiver, but I haven't seen any that do. It would
be even better if you could input the same kind of digital signal back
to the DTR's decoder, for playback. Then you could transfer the
digital signal to your PC for manipulation/editing and storage; in
some format that you would be able to playback as the original
digital signal.

For now at least, the "Digital MPEG" satellite signal must be
"decoded" into an analog signal, before it is available to the user.
(There are hardware and software "hacks" but not for many of
the satellite boxes in use, including the "DirecTiVo units.)

This isn't as bad as you might think, as the analog signal provided
is consistently of a very high quality and makes for very good
captures direct to MPEG.

Luck;
Ken
 
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> I can't speak to European DTV, but the DirecTv that is provided
> to the USA is not totally DVD compliant. So far, the "Digital" part
> is not easily available to a consumer. Even the "Linux" based "TY
> Files" that are placed on a "DirecTiVo" unit's hard drive, which are
> basically just the digital satellite signal and are MPEG in nature,
are
> not DVD compliant, as I understand it.

Dish Network is exactly the same. The signal is mpeg'd in some weird
format that is totally unusable in it's native form and is unavailable
to the end user.

> For now at least, the "Digital MPEG" satellite signal must be
> "decoded" into an analog signal, before it is available to the user.
> (There are hardware and software "hacks" but not for many of
> the satellite boxes in use, including the "DirecTiVo units.)

I think even with the Tivo hacks, the raw mpeg data is not available to
the end user. Even if it was, it would still have to be re-encoded to
DVD format to be burnable so you're still going to have to re-encode.

> This isn't as bad as you might think, as the analog signal provided
> is consistently of a very high quality and makes for very good
> captures direct to MPEG.

Absolutely. I have seen no info on any built in filters for the Hauppage
or any other video capture cards in the consumer range for that matter.
They're simply not needed for satellite transmissions. The disadvantage
of using the Hauppauge cards is the data is automatically mpeg'd so
anything beyond basic slice and dice editing available with Womble or
other MPEG editors is exceedingly difficult. The advantage of using the
Hauppage cards is if the computer being used is underpowered or has
limitied disk space, then the hardware encoder takes the processing
strain off the processor and automatically encoding to mpeg saves disk
space.

Jan's comprende' comment aside, I always capture uncompressed Huffy avi
to my hd, edit/manipulate with Premier Pro and encode in dual pass vbr
mode with ProCoder. I'm exceedingly happy with the results. Nothing like
adding video/audio fades, crawling/rolling titles and adding my own
commercials before encoding to DVD's for viewing. <g>
 

Hactar

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> HuffyUV

I've seen this written this way several times in this thread. I believe
it's "HuffYUV", as in "Huff" from "Huffman coding" and "YUV" like the color
model.

--
-eben ebQenW1@EtaRmpTabYayU.rIr.OcoPm home.tampabay.rr.com/hactar
VIRGO: All Virgos are extremely friendly and intelligent - except
for you. Expect a big surprise today when you wind up with your
head impaled upon a stick. -- Weird Al, _Your Horoscope for Today_
 
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On a sunny day (Mon, 17 May 2004 13:26:18 -0500) it happened "Ken Maltby"
<kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
<40a903cd$0$17288$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com>:
For now at least, the "Digital MPEG" satellite signal must be
>"decoded" into an analog signal, before it is available to the user.
>(There are hardware and software "hacks" but not for many of
>the satellite boxes in use, including the "DirecTiVo units.)
>
> This isn't as bad as you might think, as the analog signal provided
>is consistently of a very high quality and makes for very good
>captures direct to MPEG.
>
>Luck;
> Ken
For a card like the Nexus http://www.hauppauge.de/prod_nexus_s.htm
there exist software both for MS windows and Linux to record mpeg2.
One such soft program for windows is Multidec.
One for Linux is VDR
The signal is transmitted in what is called 'transport stream'.
This is a sequential stream with in it audio (ac3 or mp2, depends
on where you are), and mpeg2, and other info.
Some of these programs DO have an option to extract the mpeg2.
In fact you can go much further, I use for example a SkyStar1 card,
a lot like the nexus, and on http://ip51cf87c4.direct-adsl.nl/panteltje/dvd/
you can see how I can record 8 PIDS at the time in Linux, and author to
DVD all digitally of cause (and network broadcast too).
Some simple tools to extract the mpeg2 or pes, or demux are there too.
Using the nexus there should be no need to go analog.
JP
 
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On a sunny day (Mon, 17 May 2004 17:16:46 -0400) it happened "Morrmar"
<morrmar@myway.com-no spam> wrote in
<QS9qc.13431$yF6.5860@bignews5.bellsouth.net>:

>
>> I can't speak to European DTV, but the DirecTv that is provided
>> to the USA is not totally DVD compliant. So far, the "Digital" part
>> is not easily available to a consumer. Even the "Linux" based "TY
>> Files" that are placed on a "DirecTiVo" unit's hard drive, which are
>> basically just the digital satellite signal and are MPEG in nature,
>are
>> not DVD compliant, as I understand it.
>
>Dish Network is exactly the same. The signal is mpeg'd in some weird
>format that is totally unusable in it's native form and is unavailable
>to the end user.
>
>> For now at least, the "Digital MPEG" satellite signal must be
>> "decoded" into an analog signal, before it is available to the user.
>> (There are hardware and software "hacks" but not for many of
>> the satellite boxes in use, including the "DirecTiVo units.)
>
>I think even with the Tivo hacks, the raw mpeg data is not available to
>the end user. Even if it was, it would still have to be re-encoded to
>DVD format to be burnable so you're still going to have to re-encode.
>
>> This isn't as bad as you might think, as the analog signal provided
>> is consistently of a very high quality and makes for very good
>> captures direct to MPEG.
>
>Absolutely. I have seen no info on any built in filters for the Hauppage
>or any other video capture cards in the consumer range for that matter.
>They're simply not needed for satellite transmissions. The disadvantage
>of using the Hauppauge cards is the data is automatically mpeg'd so
>anything beyond basic slice and dice editing available with Womble or
>other MPEG editors is exceedingly difficult. The advantage of using the
>Hauppage cards is if the computer being used is underpowered or has
>limitied disk space, then the hardware encoder takes the processing
>strain off the processor and automatically encoding to mpeg saves disk
>space.
>
>Jan's comprende' comment aside, I always capture uncompressed Huffy avi
>to my hd, edit/manipulate with Premier Pro and encode in dual pass vbr
>mode with ProCoder. I'm exceedingly happy with the results. Nothing like
>adding video/audio fades, crawling/rolling titles and adding my own
>commercials before encoding to DVD's for viewing. <g>
No offence ment.
I write my own subs, and add these, with effects if needed, to the digital
mpeg2, but in such a case I demultiplex (to mpv es).
http://ip51cf87c4.direct-adsl.nl/panteltje/subtitles/
In fact I made many many DivX 720x576 CDR in the past from the sat stream.
Womble should work OK on the video stream, but the version I tried
lost AV sync on the mpeg2 pes (av bitrate problem?), no prob, I process
sound separately, decode the mp2 here, make multichannel multiple languages
(in sync !) and add subtitles and for that recode to AC3 if more then just
2 channels.
See also the link to my DVD page from there.
For the US stuff... I have not done it, cannot get it here, but
NTSC or PAL pes should both work.
I have feedback from the states from people using the stuff I wrote that
it works there too, so I believe that.
JP
 
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kev <tkevbell1@att.worldnet> wrote:
: I've heard good things about the Hauppauge TV Tuner cards, but I'd like
: some advice from those who have experience capturing from sat tv.
: A friend of mine used one of the Canopus converters to capture from
: Satellite and the videos looked somewhat soft--loss of sharpness, I assume

What signal does Satellite give you? If it gives an analog signal, then you
should avoid Hauppauge 'cause their analog to digital converters are conexant.
Conexant are not very good converters. I did compare Hauppauge WinTV with
Huffyuv to Pinnacle DV500 DV and sure enough Pinnacle gave MUCH better quality.
Canopus should be even better than Pinnacle.

Another opportunity is to take Philips based TV Tuner card.

However, if the signal is digital and Hauppauge card takes a digital signal as
it is, then go with Hauppauge 'cause their drivers are pretty good.

--Leonid
 

kev

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"Leonid Makarovsky" <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote in message
news:c8bk8s$n0n$2@news3.bu.edu...
> kev <tkevbell1@att.worldnet> wrote:
> : I've heard good things about the Hauppauge TV Tuner cards, but I'd
like
> : some advice from those who have experience capturing from sat tv.
> : A friend of mine used one of the Canopus converters to capture from
> : Satellite and the videos looked somewhat soft--loss of sharpness, I
assume
>
> What signal does Satellite give you? If it gives an analog signal, then
you
> should avoid Hauppauge 'cause their analog to digital converters are
conexant.
> Conexant are not very good converters.
> I did compare Hauppauge WinTV with
> Huffyuv to Pinnacle DV500 DV and sure enough Pinnacle gave MUCH better
quality.
> Canopus should be even better than Pinnacle.

Yes, analog.

I guess I didn't research the Hauppauge cards enough. Actually what I want
to do is capture *uncompressed* avi from the receiver to my HD, edit if
necessary, then encode with something like TMPGenc or Procoder 2. Like I
said, the video from DTV that he captured using a Canopus converter wasn't
as sharp as it could've been. It didn't look terrible, but he was hoping to
get a much better quality capture. We even saw some light artifacts during
motion.

Also, I'm not really trying to create a TiVo like set up, it's just for a
few recordings now and then. So a simple card with no software will do, i
guess.

> Another opportunity is to take Philips based TV Tuner card.
>
which is the best one in your opinion?

Thanks
 

kev

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"Morrmar" <morrmar@myway.com-no spam> wrote in message
news:QS9qc.13431$yF6.5860@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> > I can't speak to European DTV, but the DirecTv that is provided
> > to the USA is not totally DVD compliant. So far, the "Digital" part
> > is not easily available to a consumer. Even the "Linux" based "TY
> > Files" that are placed on a "DirecTiVo" unit's hard drive, which are
> > basically just the digital satellite signal and are MPEG in nature,
> are
> > not DVD compliant, as I understand it.
>
> Dish Network is exactly the same. The signal is mpeg'd in some weird
> format that is totally unusable in it's native form and is unavailable
> to the end user.
>
> > For now at least, the "Digital MPEG" satellite signal must be
> > "decoded" into an analog signal, before it is available to the user.
> > (There are hardware and software "hacks" but not for many of
> > the satellite boxes in use, including the "DirecTiVo units.)
>
> I think even with the Tivo hacks, the raw mpeg data is not available to
> the end user. Even if it was, it would still have to be re-encoded to
> DVD format to be burnable so you're still going to have to re-encode.
>
> > This isn't as bad as you might think, as the analog signal provided
> > is consistently of a very high quality and makes for very good
> > captures direct to MPEG.
>
> Absolutely. I have seen no info on any built in filters for the Hauppage
> or any other video capture cards in the consumer range for that matter.
> They're simply not needed for satellite transmissions. The disadvantage
> of using the Hauppauge cards is the data is automatically mpeg'd so
> anything beyond basic slice and dice editing available with Womble or
> other MPEG editors is exceedingly difficult. The advantage of using the
> Hauppage cards is if the computer being used is underpowered or has
> limitied disk space, then the hardware encoder takes the processing
> strain off the processor and automatically encoding to mpeg saves disk
> space.
>
> Jan's comprende' comment aside, I always capture uncompressed Huffy avi
> to my hd, edit/manipulate with Premier Pro and encode in dual pass vbr
> mode with ProCoder. I'm exceedingly happy with the results. Nothing like
> adding video/audio fades, crawling/rolling titles and adding my own
> commercials before encoding to DVD's for viewing. <g>
>
Morrmar, do you have access to binary groups? is there any way you could
post a small sample of an mpeg2 clip from a sat capture?
 
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> Morrmar, do you have access to binary groups? is there any way you
could
> post a small sample of an mpeg2 clip from a sat capture?


Yes, but without the original uncompressed file to compare it to, I
doubt it'll give you the info you need to make an objective comparison.
I'm jammed up now but in a couple of days, I'll record something off HBO
and put up a small clip in alt.binaries.test.

I'm getting ready to swear off Usenet for a while. <g>
 
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In article <72be9649ccc1e229a8405feb299f7e7b@news.teranews.com>,
tkevbell1@att.worldnet says...
> Yes, analog.
>
> I guess I didn't research the Hauppauge cards enough. Actually what I want
> to do is capture *uncompressed* avi from the receiver to my HD, edit if
> necessary, then encode with something like TMPGenc or Procoder 2. Like I
> said, the video from DTV that he captured using a Canopus converter wasn't
> as sharp as it could've been. It didn't look terrible, but he was hoping to
> get a much better quality capture. We even saw some light artifacts during
> motion.
>
> Also, I'm not really trying to create a TiVo like set up, it's just for a
> few recordings now and then. So a simple card with no software will do, i
> guess.
>
> > Another opportunity is to take Philips based TV Tuner card.
> >
> which is the best one in your opinion?
>
> Thanks
>

One thing you might want to consider is time. Capturing to DV might
sound nice but the time spent editing and then re encoding for DVD will
equal that of the show you recorded where as if you capture in DVD
bitrate and resolution you can make some quick cuts in the mpeg with
Womble Mpeg Video Wizard, copy it back to disk and author the DVD right
away.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com
 
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On a sunny day (17 May 2004 22:49:33 -0700) it happened Phil_12345@hotmail.com
(Phil) wrote in <ab57986.0405172149.6218c2c9@posting.google.com>:

>Hi,
>
>Go here: http://www.offeryn.de/dv.htm#pvas
>
>and download PVAStrumento (Free) to convert sat transport-stream
>video to MPEG-2 program stream. Work great !!!
Confirmed, I use it all the time, there is even a statically linked
Linux version.
JP
 
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kev <tkevbell1@att.worldnet> wrote:
: I guess I didn't research the Hauppauge cards enough. Actually what I want
: to do is capture *uncompressed* avi from the receiver to my HD, edit if

Why uncompressed? Use Huffyuv! I actually tried uncompressed RGB with my
older Hauppauge WinTV card and found that Huffyuv gives far better quality.

: said, the video from DTV that he captured using a Canopus converter wasn't
: as sharp as it could've been. It didn't look terrible, but he was hoping to
: get a much better quality capture. We even saw some light artifacts during
: motion.

Well, I'm pretty sure you can tweak settings to make it sharp. I don't believe
that Canopus wouldn't give you such an opportunity.

:> Another opportunity is to take Philips based TV Tuner card.
:>
: which is the best one in your opinion?

I have FlyVideo 3000FM. And I use it with:
Native Philips drivers
Fly2000 capture software that was designed for this card.

This capture software is $25 and can work in 2 modes:
1. Native WDM drivers - less control with this mode. Same as iu_vcr or VirtualVCR.
2. Direct mode - bypassing some of the WDM drivers capabilities. This gives
much more control and options such as GAIN.

The only problem is that the USA TV Tuner is only working if you install
LifeView drivers and use WDM mode. However, s-video and composite work fine.

A year ago I was also thinking what to get:
Canopus ADVC or Philips based capture card. I went with Philips 'cause Canopus
didn't support SECAM format. And I needed it. Now they support it, but I don't
think I'll go with Canopus set up unless they have a really better ADC.

--Leonid
 
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Chris Phillipo <cphillipo@ramsays-online.com> wrote:
: One thing you might want to consider is time. Capturing to DV might
: sound nice but the time spent editing and then re encoding for DVD will
: equal that of the show you recorded where as if you capture in DVD
: bitrate and resolution you can make some quick cuts in the mpeg with
: Womble Mpeg Video Wizard, copy it back to disk and author the DVD right
: away.

Capturing in MPEG-2 in realtime with a capture card is a very bad idea. You win
in time - you lose in quality. If time is important, than get Canopus card
that capture directly in MPEG-2. However, one trick. It only captures in MPEG-2
so you won't be able to separate streams. When I author DVDs, very offten I
need an uncompressed LPCM soundtrack. With Canopus card that captures in MPEG-2
you can't do that.

--Leonid
 
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"Leonid Makarovsky" <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote in message
news:c8e94c$n0v$2@news3.bu.edu...
> Chris Phillipo <cphillipo@ramsays-online.com> wrote:
> : One thing you might want to consider is time. Capturing to DV might
> : sound nice but the time spent editing and then re encoding for DVD will
> : equal that of the show you recorded where as if you capture in DVD
> : bitrate and resolution you can make some quick cuts in the mpeg with
> : Womble Mpeg Video Wizard, copy it back to disk and author the DVD right
> : away.
>
> Capturing in MPEG-2 in realtime with a capture card is a very bad idea.
You win
> in time - you lose in quality. If time is important, than get Canopus card
> that capture directly in MPEG-2. However, one trick. It only captures in
MPEG-2
> so you won't be able to separate streams. When I author DVDs, very offten
I
> need an uncompressed LPCM soundtrack. With Canopus card that captures in
MPEG-2
> you can't do that.
>
> --Leonid

Oh to the contrary, Leonid; it's a very GOOD idea, if done
properly with good equipment. Capturing a DTV source it is
even more so, as the analog output is quite clean and compresses
well.

Capturing to MPEG-2 does not preclude essential streams, or
capturing video and audio separately. I don't know if the OP's
card/capture software can or not, but my old Adaptec AVC-2000
with Movie Mill (260 version) can. Even if not, I'm unaware of
any significant loss associated with de-muxing a MPEG sys/prog
stream.

I don't know why you would "need" uncompressed LPCM, but
it wouldn't be my choice for the audio on a DVD made from the
output of a satellite receiver. If for no other reason than it takes
up an enormous amount of space.

The softening effects the OP's friend saw from the Canopus card,
probably come from the settings for its extensive prefiltering set
of features. It even has a TBC component.

Luck;
Ken
 
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Ken Maltby <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
: Oh to the contrary, Leonid; it's a very GOOD idea, if done
: properly with good equipment. Capturing a DTV source it is
: even more so, as the analog output is quite clean and compresses
: well.

You're going to have a software compression. If your system powerful enough,
I guess you could do it with just your regular TV Tuner. But I haven't seen
such systems. Mine is Athlon 1.2GHz and I can successfully capture in MPEG-2
at 352x480 (not 704x480) in WinDVD MPEG-2 codecs. The only problem is that
the video is not going to be interlaced.

: I don't know why you would "need" uncompressed LPCM, but
: it wouldn't be my choice for the audio on a DVD made from the
: output of a satellite receiver. If for no other reason than it takes
: up an enormous amount of space.

You may not need it capturing from satellite receiver, but if you decide to
capture from other sources like LaserDisc, it is a good idea to have an audio
uncompressed.

--Leonid
 
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In article <c8e94c$n0v$2@news3.bu.edu>, venom@cs.bu.edu says...
> Chris Phillipo <cphillipo@ramsays-online.com> wrote:
> : One thing you might want to consider is time. Capturing to DV might
> : sound nice but the time spent editing and then re encoding for DVD will
> : equal that of the show you recorded where as if you capture in DVD
> : bitrate and resolution you can make some quick cuts in the mpeg with
> : Womble Mpeg Video Wizard, copy it back to disk and author the DVD right
> : away.
>
> Capturing in MPEG-2 in realtime with a capture card is a very bad idea. You win
> in time - you lose in quality. If time is important, than get Canopus card
> that capture directly in MPEG-2. However, one trick. It only captures in MPEG-2
> so you won't be able to separate streams. When I author DVDs, very offten I
> need an uncompressed LPCM soundtrack. With Canopus card that captures in MPEG-2
> you can't do that.
>
> --Leonid
>

I wouldn't waste money ont he Canopus when the Hauppauge does the same
job unless the Canopus has come down in price in recent months. The
Hauppauge card I believe will do Mpeg-1 also but I never tried it. You
can separate the streams with it because you have the option of
capturing with your sound card or directly through the Hauppauge card.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com
 
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In article <c8h496$hif$1@news3.bu.edu>, venom@cs.bu.edu says...
> Ken Maltby <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> : Oh to the contrary, Leonid; it's a very GOOD idea, if done
> : properly with good equipment. Capturing a DTV source it is
> : even more so, as the analog output is quite clean and compresses
> : well.
>
> You're going to have a software compression. If your system powerful enough,

Why would you have software compression with a hardware encoder card?

--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com
 
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Chris Phillipo <cphillipo@ramsays-online.com> wrote:
: Why would you have software compression with a hardware encoder card?

We were talking about a simple TV Tuner. And the suggestion was to capture in
MPEG-2 direct. TV Tuners normally don't have hardware compression.

--Leonid
 
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Leonid Makarovsky wrote:

> Chris Phillipo <cphillipo@ramsays-online.com> wrote:
> : Why would you have software compression with a hardware encoder card?
>
> We were talking about a simple TV Tuner. And the suggestion was to capture in
> MPEG-2 direct. TV Tuners normally don't have hardware compression.
>

Well with DTV you don't need conversion because the signal is already mpeg-2.

If you're talking about an analog tuner, yes, there are cards with hardware mpeg
encoding.

The Hauppauge PVR-250 card can be had for as little as $99 for the "Media Center
Edition", which is simply the same as the $149 version but minus the box or
remote control.
 
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Keith Clark <clarkphotography@hotmail.com> wrote:
: Well with DTV you don't need conversion because the signal is already mpeg-2.

Well, I asked the original poster and he said that the signal was analog - not
mpeg-2. If the signal is mpeg-2, then of course it's best to capture it directly.

: If you're talking about an analog tuner, yes, there are cards with hardware mpeg
: encoding.

: The Hauppauge PVR-250 card can be had for as little as $99 for the "Media Center
: Edition", which is simply the same as the $149 version but minus the box or
: remote control.

You're right. I don't know what I've been smoking. But Hauppauge are conexant
chip based. These are not very good analog to digital converters.

I don't know about TV Tuners with Philips based converters that have H/W mpeg
encoder.

--Leonid