Frame accurate video editing

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

I'd like to edit video (MPEG1) with accuracy of ONE frame, not
15-frame-unit.

Some folks believe this is either impossible or requires decoding and
re-encoding the whole video file/set of files. Incorrect!

Here's the general idea, how:

Example: Remove commercials from a video file recorded from TV (and do
it in a professional manner):

1. mark the last frame before the commercials
2. mark the first frame after the commercials

3. decode the 15-frame-sets (2 pieces) that marks 1 and 2 point into.

4. Check if the wanted portions of these 2 pieces of 15-frame-sets
total maximum of 15 frames or over 15 frames.

5a. if they total exactly 15 frames, then just take those 15 frames.

5b. if they total less than 15 frames, then either duplicate the last
frame before the removed portion, or the first frame after the removed
portion, or insert black frames. Duplicate enough to get a total of 15
frames.

5c. if they total more than 15 frames, then do as 15b, but duplicate
until there are 30 frames

6. now re-encode those 15 or 30 frames to 1 or 2 15-frame-set(s).
This is a lot faster than re-encoding the whole file. It also avoids
the quality loss involved in re-encoding the whole file (except, of
course, the about 1 second surrounding each removed area).

7. edit the audio accordingly, the only rule is that you must remove
at least the same amount of audio as you remove video. If you remove
more, just insert silence audio to make the audio length equal to
video length.

8. Save the new file (or file set, if you must save more than 4 GiB
and you are using FAT or FAT32, or want the resulting file be
compatible with those file systems, with NTFS or Linux you may be able
to write a file bigger than 4 GiB)

9. Done !

NOW:

Is there any either free or inexpensive software to do this?
If not, any ideas, where to find all the necessary information to make
one.
I have done video programming but that was using VFW (Video for
Windows).
New software should use DirectX instead, it is capable of more
functions than do VFW.

With VFW I was faced with one problem: There are AVIStreamWrite and
AVIStreamRead, but how to write the file header? I found no solution
except to copy a "template" file that was recorded using some existing
video software, and then edited to remove all but the first
frame/15-frame-set.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Mika N wrote:

> I'd like to edit video (MPEG1) with accuracy of ONE frame, not
> 15-frame-unit.

Try "Mpeg-Wizard" from http://www.womble.com

I use it several times a week to edit mpeg-2 with single frame accuracy. I
think it's capable of doing the same with mpeg-1. Check their website to
be sure.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Mika N" <mikanhki@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1ba4659d.0405240752.e7605bd@posting.google.com...
> I'd like to edit video (MPEG1) with accuracy of ONE frame, not
> 15-frame-unit.
>
> Some folks believe this is either impossible or requires decoding and
> re-encoding the whole video file/set of files. Incorrect!
>
> Here's the general idea, how:
>
> Example: Remove commercials from a video file recorded from TV (and do
> it in a professional manner):
>
> 1. mark the last frame before the commercials
> 2. mark the first frame after the commercials
>
> 3. decode the 15-frame-sets (2 pieces) that marks 1 and 2 point into.
>
> 4. Check if the wanted portions of these 2 pieces of 15-frame-sets
> total maximum of 15 frames or over 15 frames.
>
> 5a. if they total exactly 15 frames, then just take those 15 frames.
>
> 5b. if they total less than 15 frames, then either duplicate the last
> frame before the removed portion, or the first frame after the removed
> portion, or insert black frames. Duplicate enough to get a total of 15
> frames.
>
> 5c. if they total more than 15 frames, then do as 15b, but duplicate
> until there are 30 frames
>
> 6. now re-encode those 15 or 30 frames to 1 or 2 15-frame-set(s).
> This is a lot faster than re-encoding the whole file. It also avoids
> the quality loss involved in re-encoding the whole file (except, of
> course, the about 1 second surrounding each removed area).
>
> 7. edit the audio accordingly, the only rule is that you must remove
> at least the same amount of audio as you remove video. If you remove
> more, just insert silence audio to make the audio length equal to
> video length.
>
> 8. Save the new file (or file set, if you must save more than 4 GiB
> and you are using FAT or FAT32, or want the resulting file be
> compatible with those file systems, with NTFS or Linux you may be able
> to write a file bigger than 4 GiB)
>
> 9. Done !
>
> NOW:
>
> Is there any either free or inexpensive software to do this?
> If not, any ideas, where to find all the necessary information to make
> one.
> I have done video programming but that was using VFW (Video for
> Windows).
> New software should use DirectX instead, it is capable of more
> functions than do VFW.
>
> With VFW I was faced with one problem: There are AVIStreamWrite and
> AVIStreamRead, but how to write the file header? I found no solution
> except to copy a "template" file that was recorded using some existing
> video software, and then edited to remove all but the first
> frame/15-frame-set.

Richard Ragon posted the following after sniping most of the above;

Huh.. not 15-frame unit, but I-Frames unit. I-Frames just happen to be
at the 15 frame interval. So, in theory, if there is an I-Frame there,
you can cut..

I'm no expert here though. Seams like an awful lot of work just to edit
in MPEG1.. why not just use a proper lossless codec for editing like
your supposed to?



-Richard

As usual Mr. Ragon is maintaining his <50% accuracy standing.
The 15 frames is the standard compromise to accommodate both the
PAL(15) and NTSC(18) DVD standards for GOP. As each GOP
(Group Of Pictures) must contain one each "I Frame" and only an "I
Frame" is independent of any other frames, that is where MPEG must
be cut. It's not a case of "just happen to be", and it's not "in theory"
it's in fact.

There are tools that do get around this fact that work much as you
describe. The Womble products first come to mind at;
www.womble.com You might read the description of how their SW
works. There are others.

I would hope you are not overly constrained by Mr. Ragon's idea of
what you are "supposed to" do. There are some who think that there is
only one "right" way to accomplish a task, their way; all other processes
must be inferior (or at least they rationalize it so). The fact that a
large
number of others enjoy the results that can be obtained with a simpler and
more direct approach; never seems to get through to such people.

Even if there were a"best way" it would only apply to a limited segment
of those interested in "desktop video" as a recreational activity. (Not to
mention the Pro and Semi-Pro posters, who often have much larger budgets
for HW and SW.) Many who believe that they have found their "Best/Right
Way" will assume that it must be the "Best/Right Way" for everyone else.

Luck;
Ken

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Mika N wrote:

> I'd like to edit video (MPEG1) with accuracy of ONE frame, not
> 15-frame-unit.
>
> Some folks believe this is either impossible or requires decoding and
> re-encoding the whole video file/set of files. Incorrect!
>
> Here's the general idea, how:

Huh.. not 15-frame unit, but I-Frames unit. I-Frames just happen to be
at the 15 frame interval. So, in theory, if there is an I-Frame there,
you can cut..

I'm no expert here though. Seams like an awful lot of work just to edit
in MPEG1.. why not just use a proper lossless codec for editing like
your supposed to?



-Richard

 

[Phil]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

> Mika N wrote:
>
> > I'd like to edit video (MPEG1) with accuracy of ONE frame, not
> > 15-frame-unit.
>
> Try "Mpeg-Wizard" from http://www.womble.com
>
> I use it several times a week to edit mpeg-2 with single frame accuracy. I
> think it's capable of doing the same with mpeg-1. Check their website to
> be sure.


Yes, try MpegVCR or Mpeg-Wizard. They are both the best Mpeg1/Mpeg2
editing program available.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

> > I use it several times a week to edit mpeg-2 with single frame
accuracy. I
> > think it's capable of doing the same with mpeg-1. Check their
website to
> > be sure.
>
>
> Yes, try MpegVCR or Mpeg-Wizard. They are both the best Mpeg1/Mpeg2
> editing program available.

I think Mediaware, the makers of M2 Edit Pro, may disagree with you. Now
whether the difference of $1300 USD is actually worth it is a totally
different story. <g>

I've found what's "best" is totally dependant on perspective, and of
course it varies from individual to individual.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Morrmar wrote:

> > > I use it several times a week to edit mpeg-2 with single frame
> accuracy. I
> > > think it's capable of doing the same with mpeg-1. Check their
> website to
> > > be sure.
> >
> >
> > Yes, try MpegVCR or Mpeg-Wizard. They are both the best Mpeg1/Mpeg2
> > editing program available.
>
> I think Mediaware, the makers of M2 Edit Pro, may disagree with you. Now
> whether the difference of $1300 USD is actually worth it is a totally
> different story. <g>
>
> I've found what's "best" is totally dependant on perspective, and of
> course it varies from individual to individual.

Well, if all you want is single frame accuracy and exporting without
re-encoding, then my vote would be for a $50 program over a $1300 one any
day.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Ken Maltby wrote:

> As usual Mr. Ragon is maintaining his <50% accuracy standing.

Ahh.. The article that I posted was just an opinion. Unlike the
articles that you post on your opinion and you think it's fact.

-Richard

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Richard Ragon" <bsema04NOSPAM@hanaho.com> wrote in message
news:mJSuc.5692480$iA2.659959@news.easynews.com...
> Ken Maltby wrote:
>
> > As usual Mr. Ragon is maintaining his <50% accuracy standing.
>
> Ahh.. The article that I posted was just an opinion. Unlike the
> articles that you post on your opinion and you think it's fact.
>
> -Richard
>

And as usual, you clipped out every thing that might
provide a reader with any context or what was said
that refutes your position.

Ken

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Morrmar" <morrmar@myway.com-no spam> wrote in message news:<aRIsc.2344$UA3.626@bignews3.bellsouth.net>...
> > > I use it several times a week to edit mpeg-2 with single frame
> accuracy. I
> > > think it's capable of doing the same with mpeg-1. Check their
> website to
> > > be sure.
> >
> >
> > Yes, try MpegVCR or Mpeg-Wizard. They are both the best Mpeg1/Mpeg2
> > editing program available.
>
> I think Mediaware, the makers of M2 Edit Pro, may disagree with you. Now
> whether the difference of $1300 USD is actually worth it is a totally
> different story. <g>
>
> I've found what's "best" is totally dependant on perspective, and of
> course it varies from individual to individual.



I've heard that you can do simple mpeg edits with tmpenc, any reason
why this is not being mentioned as a workaround?
(I'm new btw, don't flame me)



STRATEGY