Generation loss with DV?

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

Hello all,
I understand that if I copy a miniDV tape from one camcorder to another
directly, I'll get EXACT copy, i.e. without any loss of quality, assuming
there are no hardware errors.
What I want to know is will the same apply if I transfer (capture) DV
footage via fireware onto a hard disk and then put it back via firewire
again onto another tape? Are there some additional things I should pay
attention to, like using the same capturing utility for transferring in both
directions?
24 answers Last reply
More about generation loss
  1. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    It theory it should be totally loss-less, an exact bit for bit copy.
    You have to watch out for dropped frames and occasional imperfections
    in your tape media. If a frame is dropped, you can usually hear it
    when you play the tape and sometimes you can see it. I find this
    usually happens during capture and not export. I use a 10,000 rpm
    hard drive to reduce the occurance of dropped frames. Imperfections in
    your tape will show up on the screen as flashes of "pixelization",
    little rectangles that are pretty obvious when you see them. My
    suggestion would be to watch your footage in its entirety after every
    transfer. It's tedious but worth it.

    Ven Hawkins
  2. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    LOL! I was just re-reading a thread *I* started a couple months ago on
    almost EXACTLY the same topic. :)

    Look for this subject: "DV25: back and forth generation loss?"
    It should answer ALL of your questions on the topic.

    C.


    "Griffo Fooxburr" <griffofBEZ@SPAMAhotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:d58spd$jhc$1@ss405.t-com.hr...
    > Hello all,
    > I understand that if I copy a miniDV tape from one camcorder to another
    > directly, I'll get EXACT copy, i.e. without any loss of quality, assuming
    > there are no hardware errors.
    > What I want to know is will the same apply if I transfer (capture) DV
    > footage via fireware onto a hard disk and then put it back via firewire
    > again onto another tape? Are there some additional things I should pay
    > attention to, like using the same capturing utility for transferring in
    > both
    > directions?
    >
  3. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    In message <d58spd$jhc$1@ss405.t-com.hr>, Griffo Fooxburr
    <griffofBEZ@SPAMAhotmail.com> writes
    >Hello all,
    >I understand that if I copy a miniDV tape from one camcorder to another
    >directly, I'll get EXACT copy, i.e. without any loss of quality, assuming
    >there are no hardware errors.
    >What I want to know is will the same apply if I transfer (capture) DV
    >footage via fireware onto a hard disk and then put it back via firewire
    >again onto another tape? Are there some additional things I should pay
    >attention to, like using the same capturing utility for transferring in both
    >directions?
    >
    http://www.camcord.info/archiving
    --
    Tony Morgan
    http://www.camcord.info
  4. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    Generation Loss..

    No kidding.,. Once I was working on a project wiht DV and when I was done I
    felt a generation older. Whew. I think it was a Final Cut Project too.

    Does that count?


    "Griffo Fooxburr" <griffofBEZ@SPAMAhotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:d58spd$jhc$1@ss405.t-com.hr...
    > Hello all,
    > I understand that if I copy a miniDV tape from one camcorder to another
    > directly, I'll get EXACT copy, i.e. without any loss of quality, assuming
    > there are no hardware errors.
    > What I want to know is will the same apply if I transfer (capture) DV
    > footage via fireware onto a hard disk and then put it back via firewire
    > again onto another tape? Are there some additional things I should pay
    > attention to, like using the same capturing utility for transferring in
    > both
    > directions?
    >
  5. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    nap.
    pot.
    stir.

    LOL! ;)


    "nap" <gospam@yourself.com> wrote in message
    news:ImTde.1772$5o2.356@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    > Generation Loss..
    >
    > No kidding.,. Once I was working on a project wiht DV and when I was done
    > I felt a generation older. Whew. I think it was a Final Cut Project too.
    >
    > Does that count?
    >
    >
    > "Griffo Fooxburr" <griffofBEZ@SPAMAhotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:d58spd$jhc$1@ss405.t-com.hr...
    >> Hello all,
    >> I understand that if I copy a miniDV tape from one camcorder to another
    >> directly, I'll get EXACT copy, i.e. without any loss of quality, assuming
    >> there are no hardware errors.
    >> What I want to know is will the same apply if I transfer (capture) DV
    >> footage via fireware onto a hard disk and then put it back via firewire
    >> again onto another tape? Are there some additional things I should pay
    >> attention to, like using the same capturing utility for transferring in
    >> both
    >> directions?
    >>
    >
    >
  6. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    On Wed, 4 May 2005 00:07:56 +0200, "Griffo Fooxburr"
    <griffofBEZ@SPAMAhotmail.com> wrote:

    >What I want to know is will the same apply if I transfer (capture) DV
    >footage via fireware onto a hard disk and then put it back via firewire
    >again onto another tape?

    Yes

    > Are there some additional things I should pay
    >attention to, like using the same capturing utility for transferring in both
    >directions?

    No titles or effects.

    -martin-

    --
    "Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright
    until you hear them speak."
  7. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video (More info?)

    Converting to DV-AVI, there is a loss, but it is too small to really matter
    (a small fraction less than 1 % - I am thinking it was .01%, but I forgot
    where I read the formula). So bopping around as you listed should only lose
    that initial compression loss.

    "Griffo Fooxburr" <griffofBEZ@SPAMAhotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:d58spd$jhc$1@ss405.t-com.hr...
    > Hello all,
    > I understand that if I copy a miniDV tape from one camcorder to another
    > directly, I'll get EXACT copy, i.e. without any loss of quality, assuming
    > there are no hardware errors.
    > What I want to know is will the same apply if I transfer (capture) DV
    > footage via fireware onto a hard disk and then put it back via firewire
    > again onto another tape? Are there some additional things I should pay
    > attention to, like using the same capturing utility for transferring in
    > both
    > directions?
    >
  8. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    C.J.Patten wrote:
    > LOL! I was just re-reading a thread *I* started a couple months ago on
    > almost EXACTLY the same topic. :)
    >
    > Look for this subject: "DV25: back and forth generation loss?"
    > It should answer ALL of your questions on the topic.
    >
    > C.

    Actually I found it on Google groups immediatelly after I posted my
    question. The trouble is that my NNTP server keeps only about last 30 days
    of messages and your "...back and forth..." thread is dated somewhere
    mid-March, hence my posting...

    Thanks!
  9. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    In message <d5a2c8$870$1@ss405.t-com.hr>, Griffo Fooxburr
    <griffofBEZ@SPAMAhotmail.com> writes
    >Actually I found it on Google groups immediatelly after I posted my
    >question. The trouble is that my NNTP server keeps only about last 30
    >days of messages and your "...back and forth..." thread is dated
    >somewhere mid-March, hence my posting...

    In which case you might like to use Google to access newsgroup postings
    from years back.
    --
    Tony Morgan
    http://www.camcord.info
  10. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    Griffo Fooxburr wrote:
    > Hello all,
    > I understand that if I copy a miniDV tape from one camcorder to another
    > directly, I'll get EXACT copy, i.e. without any loss of quality, assuming
    > there are no hardware errors.
    > What I want to know is will the same apply if I transfer (capture) DV
    > footage via fireware onto a hard disk and then put it back via firewire
    > again onto another tape? Are there some additional things I should pay
    > attention to, like using the same capturing utility for transferring in both
    > directions?
    >

    Be warned that although theoretically there should be no generational
    loss, in practice there are a few things to look out for:

    Windows Movie Maker. If you are editing in WMM then note that rendering
    in DV AVI from movie maker results in COMPLETE LOSS of 27th frame of
    every clip. If you do a lot of editing with many small clips then this
    can be significant.


    --
    Rehan
    MS MVP (Digital Media)
    www.rehanfx.org -- get effects & transitions for MM2
  11. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    On Wed, 04 May 2005 16:46:43 +0100, Rehan <someone@somewhere.com>
    wrote:


    >
    >Windows Movie Maker. If you are editing in WMM then note that rendering
    >in DV AVI from movie maker results in COMPLETE LOSS of 27th frame of
    >every clip. If you do a lot of editing with many small clips then this
    >can be significant.


    how about rendering to .wmv or .mpg? same problems?

    after working with a couple of different cheap video editors, Roxio
    and Pinnacle and even goofing about with Premiere Elements, I was
    shocked at how easy Windows Movie Maker was. And, it seemed to do
    lightweight editing fairly well.

    are there any other significant flaws you noticed using Windows Movie
    Maker?
  12. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    > ... I was shocked at how easy Windows Movie Maker was. And,
    > it seemed to do lightweight editing fairly well.

    Yes I agree, WMM is very simple but powerful. I am most exceited about its
    extensible plugin interface that allows adding even more features at a
    fraction of cost to other editors.


    > are there any other significant flaws you noticed using Windows Movie
    > Maker?

    The most siginificant is its sensitivity to codecs. Some of the famous
    codecs (e.g. divx) makes it crash. Other is its incompatibility with MPEG2
    file types. However if you are not affected by these issues then your
    relationship with WMM can flourish.


    --
    Rehan
    MS MVP -- Digital Media
    www.rehanfx.org - get transitions and effects for Windows Movie Maker


    "PeeVee_Hermann" <edwardapplejacksmith@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1115222636.a2c9ef5ff16a4962f132f2c3766cf872@bubbanews...
    > On Wed, 04 May 2005 16:46:43 +0100, Rehan <someone@somewhere.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >>Windows Movie Maker. If you are editing in WMM then note that rendering
    >>in DV AVI from movie maker results in COMPLETE LOSS of 27th frame of
    >>every clip. If you do a lot of editing with many small clips then this
    >>can be significant.
    >
    >
    > how about rendering to .wmv or .mpg? same problems?
    >
    > after working with a couple of different cheap video editors, Roxio
    > and Pinnacle and even goofing about with Premiere Elements, I was
    > shocked at how easy Windows Movie Maker was. And, it seemed to do
    > lightweight editing fairly well.
    >
    > are there any other significant flaws you noticed using Windows Movie
    > Maker?
    >
    >
  13. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    In message <erhk9BMUFHA.2172@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl>, Rehan
    <someone@somewhere.com> writes
    >Griffo Fooxburr wrote:
    >> Hello all,
    >> I understand that if I copy a miniDV tape from one camcorder to another
    >> directly, I'll get EXACT copy, i.e. without any loss of quality, assuming
    >> there are no hardware errors.
    >> What I want to know is will the same apply if I transfer (capture) DV
    >> footage via fireware onto a hard disk and then put it back via firewire
    >> again onto another tape? Are there some additional things I should pay
    >> attention to, like using the same capturing utility for transferring in both
    >> directions?
    >>
    >
    >Be warned that although theoretically there should be no generational
    >loss, in practice there are a few things to look out for:
    >
    >Windows Movie Maker. If you are editing in WMM then note that rendering
    >in DV AVI from movie maker results in COMPLETE LOSS of 27th frame of
    >every clip. If you do a lot of editing with many small clips then this
    >can be significant.
    >
    For Movie Maker to be useful, you do need to install the Panasonic VFW
    DV codec and the DV Type-1 to Type-2 converter. These can be found at
    http://users.tpg.com.au/mtam/software/pdvcodec.zip and
    http://users.tpg.com.au/mtam/software/dv.zip respectively.

    --
    Tony Morgan
    http://www.camcord.info
  14. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    On Thu, 5 May 2005 01:13:21 +0100, "Rehan" <someone@somewhere.com>
    wrote:

    >> ... I was shocked at how easy Windows Movie Maker was. And,
    >> it seemed to do lightweight editing fairly well.
    >
    >Yes I agree, WMM is very simple but powerful. I am most exceited about its
    >extensible plugin interface that allows adding even more features at a
    >fraction of cost to other editors.
    >

    I just started messing around with it and so far, i'm kind of
    impressed with it. I did not know there were plug-ins available. Can
    you tell me where to look for these please?


    >
    >> are there any other significant flaws you noticed using Windows Movie
    >> Maker?
    >
    >The most siginificant is its sensitivity to codecs. Some of the famous
    >codecs (e.g. divx) makes it crash. Other is its incompatibility with MPEG2
    >file types. However if you are not affected by these issues then your
    >relationship with WMM can flourish.


    what happens if i try to work with MPEG2 files?

    I noticed it could not import or work with Quicktime Movies. I couldnt
    get Premiere elements to do that either, altho the box boasted it
    could.
  15. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    Tony Morgan wrote:
    >> Windows Movie Maker. If you are editing in WMM then note that
    >> rendering in DV AVI from movie maker results in COMPLETE LOSS of
    >> 27th frame of every clip. If you do a lot of editing with many small
    >> clips then this can be significant.
    >>
    > For Movie Maker to be useful, you do need to install the Panasonic VFW
    > DV codec and the DV Type-1 to Type-2 converter. These can be found at
    > http://users.tpg.com.au/mtam/software/pdvcodec.zip and
    > http://users.tpg.com.au/mtam/software/dv.zip respectively.

    So, with the above codec and converter 27th frame will be preserved?
  16. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    Rehan wrote:
    > Be warned that although theoretically there should be no generational
    > loss, in practice there are a few things to look out for:
    >
    > Windows Movie Maker. If you are editing in WMM then note that
    > rendering in DV AVI from movie maker results in COMPLETE LOSS of 27th
    > frame of every clip. If you do a lot of editing with many small clips
    > then this can be significant.

    Why is that?????? I mean, if it's a known bug is there an official fix? What
    does M$ say about that?

    Btw, is it every 27th frame or only THE 27th frame in each clip?
  17. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    In message <d5d58h$sgu$1@ss405.t-com.hr>, Griffo Fooxburr
    <griffofBEZ@SPAMAhotmail.com> writes
    >Tony Morgan wrote:
    >>> Windows Movie Maker. If you are editing in WMM then note that
    >>> rendering in DV AVI from movie maker results in COMPLETE LOSS of
    >>> 27th frame of every clip. If you do a lot of editing with many small
    >>> clips then this can be significant.
    >>>
    >> For Movie Maker to be useful, you do need to install the Panasonic VFW
    >> DV codec and the DV Type-1 to Type-2 converter. These can be found at
    >> http://users.tpg.com.au/mtam/software/pdvcodec.zip and
    >> http://users.tpg.com.au/mtam/software/dv.zip respectively.
    >
    >So, with the above codec and converter 27th frame will be preserved?
    >
    I've never encountered any frame loss (nor have any of my friends BTW),
    but having said that, I (and my friends) have always used the Panasonic
    DV codec.

    The Panasonic codec is a well documented fix for MM's support for only
    Type 1 DV.
    --
    Tony Morgan
    http://www.camcord.info
  18. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    I am afraid but your message contains some incorrect statemnts.


    > I've never encountered any frame loss (nor have any of my friends BTW),
    > but having said that, I (and my friends) have always used the Panasonic DV
    > codec.

    How did you manage that? Do you know of any hack to pursuade Movie Maker to
    use Panasonic codec?


    > The Panasonic codec is a well documented fix for MM's support for only
    > Type 1 DV.

    Movie Maker always uses "Microsoft DV Codec" which is a DirectShow codec.
    The panasonic codec is a VFW codec and cannot be used by Movie Maker. (VFW =
    Video for Windows, which is the old technology replaced by DShow six/seven
    years ago.)

    Therefore Panasonic DV Codec cannot be a fix for any shortcoming in Movie
    Maker at all.

    --
    Rehan
    MS MVP -- Digital Media
    www.rehanfx.org - get transitions and effects for Windows Movie Maker


    "Tony Morgan" <tonymorgan@rhylonline.com> wrote in message
    news:NRFtMVEWxieCFwCJ@82.69.78.126...
    > In message <d5d58h$sgu$1@ss405.t-com.hr>, Griffo Fooxburr
    > <griffofBEZ@SPAMAhotmail.com> writes
    >>Tony Morgan wrote:
    >>>> Windows Movie Maker. If you are editing in WMM then note that
    >>>> rendering in DV AVI from movie maker results in COMPLETE LOSS of
    >>>> 27th frame of every clip. If you do a lot of editing with many small
    >>>> clips then this can be significant.
    >>>>
    >>> For Movie Maker to be useful, you do need to install the Panasonic VFW
    >>> DV codec and the DV Type-1 to Type-2 converter. These can be found at
    >>> http://users.tpg.com.au/mtam/software/pdvcodec.zip and
    >>> http://users.tpg.com.au/mtam/software/dv.zip respectively.
    >>
    >>So, with the above codec and converter 27th frame will be preserved?
    >>
    > I've never encountered any frame loss (nor have any of my friends BTW),
    > but having said that, I (and my friends) have always used the Panasonic DV
    > codec.
    >
    > The Panasonic codec is a well documented fix for MM's support for only
    > Type 1 DV.
    > --
    > Tony Morgan
    > http://www.camcord.info
  19. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    > I did not know there were plug-ins available. Can
    > you tell me where to look for these please?

    See my website for some of the plugins/custom effects:
    http://www.rehanfx.org

    The custom effects/transitions/titles are very hotly discussed on the forums
    at:
    http://www.windowsmoviemakers.net/forums

    Other must site to visit for movie maker stuff is: www.papajohn.org


    --
    Rehan
    MS MVP -- Digital Media
    www.rehanfx.org - get transitions and effects for Windows Movie Maker


    "PeeVee_Hermann" <edwardapplejacksmith@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1115299928.427b78191937727f083fc69a275c58f8@bubbanews...
    > On Thu, 5 May 2005 01:13:21 +0100, "Rehan" <someone@somewhere.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>> ... I was shocked at how easy Windows Movie Maker was. And,
    >>> it seemed to do lightweight editing fairly well.
    >>
    >>Yes I agree, WMM is very simple but powerful. I am most exceited about its
    >>extensible plugin interface that allows adding even more features at a
    >>fraction of cost to other editors.
    >>
    >
    > I just started messing around with it and so far, i'm kind of
    > impressed with it. I did not know there were plug-ins available. Can
    > you tell me where to look for these please?
    >
    >
    >
    >>
    >>> are there any other significant flaws you noticed using Windows Movie
    >>> Maker?
    >>
    >>The most siginificant is its sensitivity to codecs. Some of the famous
    >>codecs (e.g. divx) makes it crash. Other is its incompatibility with MPEG2
    >>file types. However if you are not affected by these issues then your
    >>relationship with WMM can flourish.
    >
    >
    > what happens if i try to work with MPEG2 files?
    >
    > I noticed it could not import or work with Quicktime Movies. I couldnt
    > get Premiere elements to do that either, altho the box boasted it
    > could.
    >
    >
    >
    >
  20. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    In message <uQqVNacUFHA.228@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>, Rehan
    <someone@somewhere.com> writes
    >How did you manage that? Do you know of any hack to pursuade Movie
    >Maker to use Panasonic codec?

    Try using Google. It's also on PapaJohn's website. As I said, it's well
    documented.

    --
    Tony Morgan
    http://www.camcord.info
  21. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    Griffo Fooxburr wrote:
    >
    > Why is that?????? I mean, if it's a known bug is there an official fix? What
    > does M$ say about that?

    MS are aware of it. I dont know what their policy is about resolving it.
    Papajohn has done extensive study of this bug and has sent his
    observations to MS.

    >
    > Btw, is it every 27th frame or only THE 27th frame in each clip?
    >

    It is approximately 27th in each clip. I say approximately as the number
    of the frame that gets lost is not persistent after the first clip.
    See papajohns site:
    http://www.eicsoftware.com/PapaJohn/MM2/MM2-Issues-Video.html


    --
    Rehan
    MS MVP (Digital Media)
    www.rehanfx.org -- get effects & transitions for MM2
  22. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    Tony Morgan wrote:
    > In message <uQqVNacUFHA.228@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>, Rehan
    > <someone@somewhere.com> writes
    >
    >> How did you manage that? Do you know of any hack to pursuade Movie
    >> Maker to use Panasonic codec?
    >
    >
    > Try using Google. It's also on PapaJohn's website. As I said, it's well
    > documented.
    >

    Please point me to it as I cannot locate it on Papjohn's website.
    neither can I locate anywhere else about the subject of using
    non-microsoft dv codec with movie maker. In your reply please post a few
    links!

    Hope you are not just making it up ?

    --
    Rehan
    MS MVP (Digital Media)
    www.rehanfx.org -- get effects & transitions for MM2
  23. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    In message <OHC1foiUFHA.1384@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, Rehan
    <someone@somewhere.com> writes
    >Tony Morgan wrote:
    >> In message <uQqVNacUFHA.228@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>, Rehan
    >><someone@somewhere.com> writes
    >>
    >>> How did you manage that? Do you know of any hack to pursuade Movie
    >>>Maker to use Panasonic codec?
    >> Try using Google. It's also on PapaJohn's website. As I said, it's
    >>well documented.
    >>
    >
    >Please point me to it as I cannot locate it on Papjohn's website.
    >neither can I locate anywhere else about the subject of using
    >non-microsoft dv codec with movie maker. In your reply please post a
    >few links!
    >
    >Hope you are not just making it up ?
    >
    No I am not. The real laugh is that you profess to write plug-ins for
    MM... LOL. Worse, you seem too clueless to use Google.

    Here's a link that will help even you to download and install the
    Panasonic codec.

    http://users.tpg.com.au/mtam/guide_wmm2.htm

    Also, since you seem to have so much difficulty finding things, here's a
    PapaJohn webpage that gives a whole bunch of information (including how
    to register/unregister codecs).

    http://www.eicsoftware.com/PapaJohn/MM2/MM2.html

    There's a huge amount of information on MM related things on PapaJohn's
    website - if you take the trouble to look for it.

    --
    Tony Morgan
    http://www.camcord.info
  24. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.video,rec.video,rec.video.desktop,uk.rec.video.digital (More info?)

    Tony Morgan wrote:
    ....
    > No I am not. The real laugh is that you profess to write plug-ins for
    > MM... LOL. Worse, you seem too clueless to use Google.
    >
    > Here's a link that will help even you to download and install the
    > Panasonic codec.
    >
    > http://users.tpg.com.au/mtam/guide_wmm2.htm
    >

    Tony, this web page only shows you how to convert a DV AVI file produced
    by Movie Maker from type 1 to type 2. This can be done either using
    VirtualDub or by using a freely available converter.

    This process will not fix the dropped frames that are dropped by Movie
    Maker prior to any conversion.

    Please read the information carefully you post about. Although I can
    understand how the (vague) wording used on the webpage might mislead
    people who have not tried the procedure themselves. But this is very
    irresponsive of you to boast with such authority about things you have
    not actually tried!


    > Also, since you seem to have so much difficulty finding things, here's a
    > PapaJohn webpage that gives a whole bunch of information (including how
    > to register/unregister codecs).
    >
    > http://www.eicsoftware.com/PapaJohn/MM2/MM2.html
    >
    > There's a huge amount of information on MM related things on PapaJohn's
    > website - if you take the trouble to look for it.
    >

    I am fully aware of Papjohn's website and its content. But you claimed
    that his website contains information about using Panasonic DV codec to
    replace broken Microsoft DV codec within Movie Maker. I challenged you
    to justify this claim but you have just provided shallow reply pointing
    to the main web page. This did not prove anything.

    This is my final reply to you unless you come up with something
    substantial (rather than slurs and flame war).

    For others benefits i will summarise the current knowledge about Movie
    Makers DV AVI output:

    When rendering to DV AVI, Movie Maker drops one frame for every clip
    used in a project. This problem cannot be avoided by installing any
    other DV codec.

    More information about this issue is mentioned on the following page on
    Papajohn's website. Note: No mention of a solution via panasonic codec
    as claimed by Tony:

    http://www.eicsoftware.com/PapaJohn/MM2/MM2-Issues-Video.html

    Best regards.

    --
    Rehan
    MS MVP (Digital Media)
    www.rehanfx.org -- get effects & transitions for MM2
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