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My Dad bought me Half-Life Platinum at a Yard Sale for $1.00

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Anonymous
July 22, 2005 3:07:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

It has Half-Life - Half-Life Opposing Force - Team Fortress - Counter
Strike with all four CD.s. I like it. I am stuck on climbing out after
the crash in the lab - but I do not want help on how to get around it.


I was wondering as my Dad kindof likes computers himself if the game would
look better with a Voodoo Card or whatever that is. I have a Dell with
512MB memory and other things - but my video is something called Intel
Extreme Graphics 2 - my Dad says it would be good ebough for that game as
is is an older Game - but would a Voodoo Card be better whatever that is?

I know he did things to the game called Open G I think and it looks much
better. My Dad is my friend so if folks could tell me I am off in asking
anymore I would like it.

thanks

More about : dad bought half life platinum yard sale

Anonymous
July 22, 2005 3:19:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"nitroxen" <nit@roxen.com> wrote
> My Dad is my friend so if folks could tell me I am off in asking
> anymore I would like it.

You are off in asking anymore. Do you like it?
-^-
David
davidfirewater(a)hotmail.com
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 3:45:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

I like that since I'm a dad and a grandpa... :)  I doubt if a VooDoo
card would improve what you have... They are very old and you would
probably have trouble finding drivers for WinXP... If your dad got it
to work with OpenGL then you're fine... There is an add on game called
"Blue Shift" that has a "High Definition" pack that improves the
graphics considerably plus it is a good game in itself... You play
through Black Mesa as Barney the security guard... You can probably
find it for very few bucks.... HL is a great game, stay with it.... Ya
sound like a good kid... :) 


On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:07:13 GMT, nitroxen <nit@roxen.com> wrote:

>I know he did things to the game called Open G I think and it looks much
>better. My Dad is my friend so if folks could tell me I am off in asking
>anymore I would like it.
>
>thanks

--


"The Buffalo Theory"


A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest
buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest
and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This
natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because
the general speed and health of the whole group keeps
improving by the regular killing of the weakest members.
In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as
fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of
alcohol, as we know, kill brain cells. But naturally,
it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first.
In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the
weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more
efficient machine! That's why you always feel smarter
after a few beers.
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 3:53:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"nitroxen" <nit@roxen.com> wrote in message
news:Xns969AB82B2B6E7nitroxencom@207.217.125.201
> It has Half-Life - Half-Life Opposing Force - Team Fortress - Counter
> Strike with all four CD.s. I like it. I am stuck on climbing out
> after the crash in the lab - but I do not want help on how to get
> around it.
>
>
> I was wondering as my Dad kindof likes computers himself if the game
> would look better with a Voodoo Card or whatever that is. I have a
> Dell with 512MB memory and other things - but my video is something
> called Intel Extreme Graphics 2 - my Dad says it would be good ebough
> for that game as is is an older Game - but would a Voodoo Card be
> better whatever that is?
>
> I know he did things to the game called Open G I think and it looks
> much better. My Dad is my friend so if folks could tell me I am off
> in asking anymore I would like it.
>
> thanks

The Voodoo is a MUCH older card and isn't as high powered as the
built-in Intel Extreme Graphics 2 you have now.

Your Dad used the OpenGL renderer in the Video Options of the game
itself. Most video chipsets come with an 'interpretation' of the OpenGL
driver these days. Another poster mentions GLide. This was a 'wrapper'
developed for the 3Dfx Voodoo chips. It offered some features which
would make a lot of games look better. Your vid chipset uses an
implementation of OpenGL that's more up to date than the old Voodoo
GLide wrapper.
I think your Dad is right; that your current Intel video is good enough
for the Half-Life Platinum Edition games. If they look good and play
smooth, then get into it and enjoy those games!
McG.
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 4:55:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

ian lincoln thought about it a bit, then said...
> Open GL was for Glide.

OpenGL has nothing at all to do with Glide. Two completely separate and
different graphic interfaces.

In fact, 3dfx had to use Glide calls to try and implement OpenGL on
their cards. Nvidia had a full OpenGL implementation before 3dfx did.

--
Kevin Steele
RetroBlast! Retrogaming News and Reviews
www.retroblast.com
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 10:01:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:55:09 -0400, Kevin Steele
<net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote:

>ian lincoln thought about it a bit, then said...
>> Open GL was for Glide.
>
>OpenGL has nothing at all to do with Glide. Two completely separate and
>different graphic interfaces.
>
>In fact, 3dfx had to use Glide calls to try and implement OpenGL on
>their cards.

no McG had it right, glide was a wrapper for the 3dfx driver which
only used a subset of opengl functionality, 16bit colour being the
most obvious limitation of the voodoo chipset.

dr ratt

-------------------------------------------
the man who crosses me and leaves me alive.
he understands nothing about tuco.
nothing.
-------------------------------------------
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 10:01:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

doctor.ratt thought about it a bit, then said...
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:55:09 -0400, Kevin Steele
> <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote:
>
> >ian lincoln thought about it a bit, then said...
> >> Open GL was for Glide.
> >
> >OpenGL has nothing at all to do with Glide. Two completely separate and
> >different graphic interfaces.
> >
> >In fact, 3dfx had to use Glide calls to try and implement OpenGL on
> >their cards.
>
> no McG had it right, glide was a wrapper for the 3dfx driver which
> only used a subset of opengl functionality, 16bit colour being the
> most obvious limitation of the voodoo chipset.

Glide was a 3dfx proprietary graphics language specifically for their
Voodoo cards, while OpenGL is a vendor-neutral, multi-platform standard
language ("Open Graphics Language", AKA "Open-GL") developed by SGI.

3dfx's OpenGL driver only implemented a subset of the full OpenGL spec,
and then only through calls to Glide. In fact, they developed the
"MiniGL" driver just to run Quake on Voodoo cards.

McG did not have it right, nor do you.

--
Kevin Steele
RetroBlast! Retrogaming News and Reviews
www.retroblast.com
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 2:30:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"doctor.ratt" <spamsum1else@zen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ib92e11o6q0uc487u0uag56a29cmiefvoj@4ax.com
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:55:09 -0400, Kevin Steele
> <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> ian lincoln thought about it a bit, then said...
>>> Open GL was for Glide.
>>
>> OpenGL has nothing at all to do with Glide. Two completely separate
>> and different graphic interfaces.
>>
>> In fact, 3dfx had to use Glide calls to try and implement OpenGL on
>> their cards.
>
> no McG had it right, glide was a wrapper for the 3dfx driver which
> only used a subset of opengl functionality, 16bit colour being the
> most obvious limitation of the voodoo chipset.
>
> dr ratt
>
> -------------------------------------------
> the man who crosses me and leaves me alive.
> he understands nothing about tuco.
> nothing.
> -------------------------------------------

Well, I "was there!" and have a couple Voodoo2 12 meggers I SLI'd for a
little bit :)  But it was the original Voodoo Monster Graphics chipset
and then the Rush that DID use the GLide wrappers. The Voodoo2 didn't!
Anyway, all that Voodoo and 3Dfx stuff really is outdated in function
and performance now. A Geforce2 GTS 32 meg card runs well against most
3Dfx chips. That kids mobo have an AGP slot?
McG.
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 2:40:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Kevin Steele" <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d4b30c423229d15989ee1@news
> doctor.ratt thought about it a bit, then said...
>> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:55:09 -0400, Kevin Steele
>> <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote:
>>
>>> ian lincoln thought about it a bit, then said...
>>>> Open GL was for Glide.
>>>
>>> OpenGL has nothing at all to do with Glide. Two completely separate
>>> and different graphic interfaces.
>>>
>>> In fact, 3dfx had to use Glide calls to try and implement OpenGL on
>>> their cards.
>>
>> no McG had it right, glide was a wrapper for the 3dfx driver which
>> only used a subset of opengl functionality, 16bit colour being the
>> most obvious limitation of the voodoo chipset.
>
> Glide was a 3dfx proprietary graphics language specifically for their
> Voodoo cards, while OpenGL is a vendor-neutral, multi-platform
> standard language ("Open Graphics Language", AKA "Open-GL") developed
> by SGI.
>
> 3dfx's OpenGL driver only implemented a subset of the full OpenGL
> spec, and then only through calls to Glide. In fact, they developed
> the "MiniGL" driver just to run Quake on Voodoo cards.
>
> McG did not have it right, nor do you.

Horsefeathers :) 

GLide WAS the 'wrapper' OGL calls were redirected TO and run IN.
Half-Life has a GLide 'miniport' built-in just for the 3Dfx chips.
Don't know about the 3Dfx renderer for Quake. I ran a Verite 1000 board
at that time and it came with a 3D 'port' just for Quake and the
original Tombraider. Just after that I ran 2 Voodoo2's in single and
SLI.
There's no doubt that 3Dfx gave us the first 3D rendering in games for
the masses. I thought their implementation a bit odd, but it worked.
McG.
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 2:45:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

McGrandpa thought about it a bit, then said...
> "Kevin Steele" <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d4b30c423229d15989ee1@news
> > doctor.ratt thought about it a bit, then said...
> >> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:55:09 -0400, Kevin Steele
> >> <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> ian lincoln thought about it a bit, then said...
> >>>> Open GL was for Glide.
> >>>
> >>> OpenGL has nothing at all to do with Glide. Two completely separate
> >>> and different graphic interfaces.
> >>>
> >>> In fact, 3dfx had to use Glide calls to try and implement OpenGL on
> >>> their cards.
> >>
> >> no McG had it right, glide was a wrapper for the 3dfx driver which
> >> only used a subset of opengl functionality, 16bit colour being the
> >> most obvious limitation of the voodoo chipset.
> >
> > Glide was a 3dfx proprietary graphics language specifically for their
> > Voodoo cards, while OpenGL is a vendor-neutral, multi-platform
> > standard language ("Open Graphics Language", AKA "Open-GL") developed
> > by SGI.
> >
> > 3dfx's OpenGL driver only implemented a subset of the full OpenGL
> > spec, and then only through calls to Glide. In fact, they developed
> > the "MiniGL" driver just to run Quake on Voodoo cards.
> >
> > McG did not have it right, nor do you.
>
> Horsefeathers :) 

Horsepucky. ;-)

> GLide WAS the 'wrapper' OGL calls were redirected TO and run IN.
> Half-Life has a GLide 'miniport' built-in just for the 3Dfx chips.
> Don't know about the 3Dfx renderer for Quake. I ran a Verite 1000 board
> at that time and it came with a 3D 'port' just for Quake and the
> original Tombraider. Just after that I ran 2 Voodoo2's in single and
> SLI.

Glide was not the wrapper, it was the driver. 3dfx developed "wrappers"
for OpenGL and D3D use that were then translated into native Glide
calls. The "miniport" you're remembering is the "MiniGL" 3dfx created,
which was just a "subset" of OpenGL with just enough OpenGL commands to
run the Quake 1&2 engines (which HL was based on). And the MiniGL just
translated those calls to native Glide commands.

> There's no doubt that 3Dfx gave us the first 3D rendering in games for
> the masses. I thought their implementation a bit odd, but it worked.
> McG.

I agree - I had a Voodoo accellerator and moved to a Voodoo Banshee
before 3dfx imploded.

--
Kevin Steele
RetroBlast! Retrogaming News and Reviews
www.retroblast.com
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 2:58:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:35:52 -0400, Kevin Steele
<net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote:

>doctor.ratt thought about it a bit, then said...
>> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:55:09 -0400, Kevin Steele
>> <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote:
>>
>> >ian lincoln thought about it a bit, then said...
>> >> Open GL was for Glide.
>> >
>> >OpenGL has nothing at all to do with Glide. Two completely separate and
>> >different graphic interfaces.
>> >
>> >In fact, 3dfx had to use Glide calls to try and implement OpenGL on
>> >their cards.
>>
>> no McG had it right, glide was a wrapper for the 3dfx driver which
>> only used a subset of opengl functionality, 16bit colour being the
>> most obvious limitation of the voodoo chipset.
>
>Glide was a 3dfx proprietary graphics language specifically for their
>Voodoo cards, while OpenGL is a vendor-neutral, multi-platform standard
>language ("Open Graphics Language", AKA "Open-GL") developed by SGI.
>
>3dfx's OpenGL driver only implemented a subset of the full OpenGL spec,
>and then only through calls to Glide.

as i said here:

'glide was a wrapper for the 3dfx driver which
only used a subset of opengl functionality,'

it is a 'wrapper' because it insinuates itself between hardware &
driver and driver & os.

>In fact, they developed glide was a wrapper for the 3dfx driver which

>"MiniGL" driver just to run Quake on Voodoo cards.
>
>McG did not have it right, nor do you.

you even say yourself that one is a part [subset] of the other then
insist they are independent of one another.
you can't have it both ways.

dr ratt

-------------------------------------------
the man who crosses me and leaves me alive.
he understands nothing about tuco.
nothing.
-------------------------------------------
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 2:58:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

doctor.ratt thought about it a bit, then said...
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:35:52 -0400, Kevin Steele
> <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote:
>
> >doctor.ratt thought about it a bit, then said...
> >> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:55:09 -0400, Kevin Steele
> >> <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >ian lincoln thought about it a bit, then said...
> >> >> Open GL was for Glide.
> >> >
> >> >OpenGL has nothing at all to do with Glide. Two completely separate and
> >> >different graphic interfaces.
> >> >
> >> >In fact, 3dfx had to use Glide calls to try and implement OpenGL on
> >> >their cards.
> >>
> >> no McG had it right, glide was a wrapper for the 3dfx driver which
> >> only used a subset of opengl functionality, 16bit colour being the
> >> most obvious limitation of the voodoo chipset.
> >
> >Glide was a 3dfx proprietary graphics language specifically for their
> >Voodoo cards, while OpenGL is a vendor-neutral, multi-platform standard
> >language ("Open Graphics Language", AKA "Open-GL") developed by SGI.
> >
> >3dfx's OpenGL driver only implemented a subset of the full OpenGL spec,
> >and then only through calls to Glide.
>
> as i said here:
>
> 'glide was a wrapper for the 3dfx driver which
> only used a subset of opengl functionality,'

Glide _was_ the 3dfx driver.

> it is a 'wrapper' because it insinuates itself between hardware &
> driver and driver & os.
>
> >In fact, they developed glide was a wrapper for the 3dfx driver which
>
> >"MiniGL" driver just to run Quake on Voodoo cards.
> >
> >McG did not have it right, nor do you.
>
> you even say yourself that one is a part [subset] of the other then
> insist they are independent of one another.
> you can't have it both ways.

No, one is not a "subset" of the other. Read it again - the 3dfx OpenGL
driver was a subset of the "official" OpenGL spec, i.e., 3dfx did not
implement a full OpenGL driver. Nothing to do with Glide

3dfx _did_ use calls to Glide to implement their OpenGL driver, and
their MiniGL driver before that. Glide itself did not use a subset of
OpenGL, GLide was used to implement an OpenGL driver that used a subset
of the OpenGL spec.

OpenGL, though, was and is in no way associated with or created by 3dfx.
ian lincoln said that "OpenGL was for Glide," which is inaccurate.
OpenGL has no relationship or dependencies on Glide (heck, they're not
even 2nd cousins twice removed ;-) That's the error that I was trying to
correct in ian lincoln's post.

--
Kevin Steele
RetroBlast! Retrogaming News and Reviews
www.retroblast.com
July 23, 2005 4:39:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 22:58:56 +0100, doctor.ratt
<spamsum1else@zen.co.uk> wrote:

>'glide was a wrapper for the 3dfx driver which
>only used a subset of opengl functionality,'

Glide has nothing at all to do with OpenGL. Glide was the language
that corresponded directly to the Voodoo chipset instructions. When
Quake came along, 3dfx wrote the MiniGL wrapper which translated a
subset of OpenGL instructions to Glide.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
July 23, 2005 4:50:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 22:30:09 GMT, "McGrandpa"
<McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote:

>Well, I "was there!" and have a couple Voodoo2 12 meggers I SLI'd for a
>little bit :)  But it was the original Voodoo Monster Graphics chipset
>and then the Rush that DID use the GLide wrappers. The Voodoo2 didn't!

All the Voodoo cards used Glide as their native instruction set.
OpenGL and D3D support was via wrappers.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 9:32:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Kevin Steele" <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d4b7958f4053afb989ee3@news
> McGrandpa thought about it a bit, then said...
>> "Kevin Steele" <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.1d4b30c423229d15989ee1@news
>>> doctor.ratt thought about it a bit, then said...
>>>> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:55:09 -0400, Kevin Steele
>>>> <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ian lincoln thought about it a bit, then said...
>>>>>> Open GL was for Glide.
>>>>>
>>>>> OpenGL has nothing at all to do with Glide. Two completely
>>>>> separate and different graphic interfaces.
>>>>>
>>>>> In fact, 3dfx had to use Glide calls to try and implement OpenGL
>>>>> on their cards.
>>>>
>>>> no McG had it right, glide was a wrapper for the 3dfx driver which
>>>> only used a subset of opengl functionality, 16bit colour being the
>>>> most obvious limitation of the voodoo chipset.
>>>
>>> Glide was a 3dfx proprietary graphics language specifically for
>>> their Voodoo cards, while OpenGL is a vendor-neutral, multi-platform
>>> standard language ("Open Graphics Language", AKA "Open-GL")
>>> developed by SGI.
>>>
>>> 3dfx's OpenGL driver only implemented a subset of the full OpenGL
>>> spec, and then only through calls to Glide. In fact, they developed
>>> the "MiniGL" driver just to run Quake on Voodoo cards.
>>>
>>> McG did not have it right, nor do you.
>>
>> Horsefeathers :) 
>
> Horsepucky. ;-)
>
>> GLide WAS the 'wrapper' OGL calls were redirected TO and run IN.
>> Half-Life has a GLide 'miniport' built-in just for the 3Dfx chips.
>> Don't know about the 3Dfx renderer for Quake. I ran a Verite 1000
>> board at that time and it came with a 3D 'port' just for Quake and
>> the original Tombraider. Just after that I ran 2 Voodoo2's in
>> single and SLI.
>
> Glide was not the wrapper, it was the driver. 3dfx developed
> "wrappers" for OpenGL and D3D use that were then translated into
> native Glide calls. The "miniport" you're remembering is the "MiniGL"
> 3dfx created, which was just a "subset" of OpenGL with just enough
> OpenGL commands to run the Quake 1&2 engines (which HL was based on).
> And the MiniGL just translated those calls to native Glide commands.

Look, I'm going to own being confused about what was which some 9 years
ago with all that stuff about GLide. I know that OpenGL is a graphics
language/standard/API that stands on its own just as Direct 3D does. I
also know that the driver for the Voodoo2 wasn't the same at all as for
the Voodoo. I do know that when I first got the Verite board I could
finally "see" because of the AA smoothing. Then it got a lot better
with the Voodoo2's.

I'd always thought that GLide was the wrapper, because it was referred
to as "GLide Wrapper" in the readmes and any number of posts in
a.g.quake. The languaging used was ambiguous, and could as well mean
"GLides' Wrapper" where there are two items, not one. I'm sure that a
little googling will yield further text in the history of GLide, and
I'll do that this weekend.


>
>> There's no doubt that 3Dfx gave us the first 3D rendering in games
>> for the masses. I thought their implementation a bit odd, but it
>> worked. McG.
>
> I agree - I had a Voodoo accellerator and moved to a Voodoo Banshee
> before 3dfx imploded.

How does the Banshee stack up against the older Voodoo2? Having 3 video
type cards in the box was a chore, with the Voodoo2's and a 3D Blaster
PCI (Verite 1000) for the 'host' card.

I was pretty slow on upgrades back then. I'd had to wait till prices
dropped some, and by the time I wanted to go to a Voodoo 5, 3Dfx folded.
There has been a long list of video cards in the progression from an ATi
VGA Wonder (512K, v.1.0) to my eVGA 6800 GT today. 20 years since I got
that card. Wow. Still have it, wonder if it works?! Drivers? HA!

McG.
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 12:34:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

McGrandpa thought about it a bit, then said...
> Look, I'm going to own being confused about what was which some 9 years
> ago with all that stuff about GLide. I know that OpenGL is a graphics
> language/standard/API that stands on its own just as Direct 3D does. I
> also know that the driver for the Voodoo2 wasn't the same at all as for
> the Voodoo. I do know that when I first got the Verite board I could
> finally "see" because of the AA smoothing. Then it got a lot better
> with the Voodoo2's.
>
> I'd always thought that GLide was the wrapper, because it was referred
> to as "GLide Wrapper" in the readmes and any number of posts in
> a.g.quake. The languaging used was ambiguous, and could as well mean
> "GLides' Wrapper" where there are two items, not one. I'm sure that a
> little googling will yield further text in the history of GLide, and
> I'll do that this weekend.

A "glide wrapper" was using using the glide API and a D3D or OpenGL
"wrapper" to basically emulate D3D or OpenGL.

> >> There's no doubt that 3Dfx gave us the first 3D rendering in games
> >> for the masses. I thought their implementation a bit odd, but it
> >> worked. McG.
> >
> > I agree - I had a Voodoo accellerator and moved to a Voodoo Banshee
> > before 3dfx imploded.
>
> How does the Banshee stack up against the older Voodoo2? Having 3 video
> type cards in the box was a chore, with the Voodoo2's and a 3D Blaster
> PCI (Verite 1000) for the 'host' card.

The Banshee was a great card, at least for any games that didn't do
multi-pass rendering (it only had one TMU, while the Voodoo 2 & 3 had
two TMUs) The Banshee was faster than the Voodoo 2 for single-pass
games, but slower for dual-pass games (like Quake).

Strangely enough, Half-Life didn't do dual-pass rendering, even though
it was based on the Quake engine, so the Banshee's speed was pretty
good. It also rocked for "Forsaken" (remember that one?)

> I was pretty slow on upgrades back then. I'd had to wait till prices
> dropped some, and by the time I wanted to go to a Voodoo 5, 3Dfx folded.
> There has been a long list of video cards in the progression from an ATi
> VGA Wonder (512K, v.1.0) to my eVGA 6800 GT today. 20 years since I got
> that card. Wow. Still have it, wonder if it works?! Drivers? HA!

I got a Diamond Multimedia special, with the Banshee card and their 3D
sound card (Monster Sound MX300, with the Aureal Vortex 2 sound chip),
just in time for Half-Life. Half-Life was amazing with that sound card.

--
Kevin Steele
RetroBlast! Retrogaming News and Reviews
www.retroblast.com
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 5:07:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Kevin Steele" <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d4c0355bb0be04989ee4@news
> McGrandpa thought about it a bit, then said...
>> Look, I'm going to own being confused about what was which some 9
>> years ago with all that stuff about GLide. I know that OpenGL is a
>> graphics language/standard/API that stands on its own just as Direct
>> 3D does. I also know that the driver for the Voodoo2 wasn't the
>> same at all as for the Voodoo. I do know that when I first got the
>> Verite board I could finally "see" because of the AA smoothing.
>> Then it got a lot better with the Voodoo2's.
>>
>> I'd always thought that GLide was the wrapper, because it was
>> referred to as "GLide Wrapper" in the readmes and any number of
>> posts in a.g.quake. The languaging used was ambiguous, and could as
>> well mean "GLides' Wrapper" where there are two items, not one. I'm
>> sure that a little googling will yield further text in the history
>> of GLide, and I'll do that this weekend.
>
> A "glide wrapper" was using using the glide API and a D3D or OpenGL
> "wrapper" to basically emulate D3D or OpenGL.

Okay. Now lets either clear or muddy the waters some more :)  GliDOS.
It allows one to play the old GLide versions of some DOS games (not
Quake, but Tombraider 1, Carmageddon, Redguard and such) in Windows with
almost any modern 3D graphics card that's fully supported by Windows.
GliDOS is the wrapper and Glide is the API it's intercepting?

>
>>>> There's no doubt that 3Dfx gave us the first 3D rendering in games
>>>> for the masses. I thought their implementation a bit odd, but it
>>>> worked. McG.
>>>
>>> I agree - I had a Voodoo accellerator and moved to a Voodoo Banshee
>>> before 3dfx imploded.
>>
>> How does the Banshee stack up against the older Voodoo2? Having 3
>> video type cards in the box was a chore, with the Voodoo2's and a 3D
>> Blaster PCI (Verite 1000) for the 'host' card.
>
> The Banshee was a great card, at least for any games that didn't do
> multi-pass rendering (it only had one TMU, while the Voodoo 2 & 3 had
> two TMUs) The Banshee was faster than the Voodoo 2 for single-pass
> games, but slower for dual-pass games (like Quake).
>
> Strangely enough, Half-Life didn't do dual-pass rendering, even though
> it was based on the Quake engine, so the Banshee's speed was pretty
> good. It also rocked for "Forsaken" (remember that one?)

Yeah :)  Have it installed for the odd times my son wants to show off
and kick his old Pop around in it for a little bit! Runs pretty slick
today for such an oldie. But most games have a seperate renderer option
for the 3Dfx chips. Meaning GLide I'm guessing. And 'seperate
rendeerer' equates to an independant API, right? (egads talk about
breakin all the little parts down to simplest components!)

>
>> I was pretty slow on upgrades back then. I'd had to wait till prices
>> dropped some, and by the time I wanted to go to a Voodoo 5, 3Dfx
>> folded. There has been a long list of video cards in the progression
>> from an ATi VGA Wonder (512K, v.1.0) to my eVGA 6800 GT today. 20
>> years since I got that card. Wow. Still have it, wonder if it
>> works?! Drivers? HA!
>
> I got a Diamond Multimedia special, with the Banshee card and their 3D
> sound card (Monster Sound MX300, with the Aureal Vortex 2 sound chip),
> just in time for Half-Life. Half-Life was amazing with that sound
> card.
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 5:16:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Kevin Steele" <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d4c0355bb0be04989ee4@news
> McGrandpa thought about it a bit, then said...
>> Look, I'm going to own being confused about what was which some 9
>> years ago with all that stuff about GLide. I know that OpenGL is a
>> graphics language/standard/API that stands on its own just as Direct
>> 3D does. I also know that the driver for the Voodoo2 wasn't the
>> same at all as for the Voodoo. I do know that when I first got the
>> Verite board I could finally "see" because of the AA smoothing.
>> Then it got a lot better with the Voodoo2's.
>>
>> I'd always thought that GLide was the wrapper, because it was
>> referred to as "GLide Wrapper" in the readmes and any number of
>> posts in a.g.quake. The languaging used was ambiguous, and could as
>> well mean "GLides' Wrapper" where there are two items, not one. I'm
>> sure that a little googling will yield further text in the history
>> of GLide, and I'll do that this weekend.
>
> A "glide wrapper" was using using the glide API and a D3D or OpenGL
> "wrapper" to basically emulate D3D or OpenGL.
>
>>>> There's no doubt that 3Dfx gave us the first 3D rendering in games
>>>> for the masses. I thought their implementation a bit odd, but it
>>>> worked. McG.
>>>
>>> I agree - I had a Voodoo accellerator and moved to a Voodoo Banshee
>>> before 3dfx imploded.
>>
>> How does the Banshee stack up against the older Voodoo2? Having 3
>> video type cards in the box was a chore, with the Voodoo2's and a 3D
>> Blaster PCI (Verite 1000) for the 'host' card.
>
> The Banshee was a great card, at least for any games that didn't do
> multi-pass rendering (it only had one TMU, while the Voodoo 2 & 3 had
> two TMUs) The Banshee was faster than the Voodoo 2 for single-pass
> games, but slower for dual-pass games (like Quake).
>
> Strangely enough, Half-Life didn't do dual-pass rendering, even though
> it was based on the Quake engine, so the Banshee's speed was pretty
> good. It also rocked for "Forsaken" (remember that one?)
>
>> I was pretty slow on upgrades back then. I'd had to wait till prices
>> dropped some, and by the time I wanted to go to a Voodoo 5, 3Dfx
>> folded. There has been a long list of video cards in the progression
>> from an ATi VGA Wonder (512K, v.1.0) to my eVGA 6800 GT today. 20
>> years since I got that card. Wow. Still have it, wonder if it
>> works?! Drivers? HA!
>
> I got a Diamond Multimedia special, with the Banshee card and their 3D
> sound card (Monster Sound MX300, with the Aureal Vortex 2 sound chip),
> just in time for Half-Life. Half-Life was amazing with that sound
> card.

Oops (hit send too soon)
Enter Half-Life about 1997? Yeah, I recall some weirdness in that HL
would run on either the DX or OGL and it looked and played way better
for me with the OGL *but* there was always confusion over which OGL got
installed and loaded. It worked with both implementations for the
Verite 1000 and the Voodoo2. I remember having to write myself an
instruction sheet so that I wouldn't be running the OGL for the Verite.
That one was slower and not as good as the one for the Voodoo2 :)  I
think that 98Se would let you have both installed at the same time. I
crashed it a lot back then :)  I was happy to get that first 440BX rig
and AGP card! Viper V770Ultra!
I don't think I want to talk about how much money I've spent on video
cards in the last 20 years :-\ The big thing to me then was, single
card solution for 3D acceleration!
McG.
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 7:30:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

McGrandpa thought about it a bit, then said...
> "Kevin Steele" <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d4c0355bb0be04989ee4@news
>
> Okay. Now lets either clear or muddy the waters some more :)  GliDOS.
> It allows one to play the old GLide versions of some DOS games (not
> Quake, but Tombraider 1, Carmageddon, Redguard and such) in Windows with
> almost any modern 3D graphics card that's fully supported by Windows.
> GliDOS is the wrapper and Glide is the API it's intercepting?

GliDOS is a "glide emulator" that takes old Glide commands and
translates them into modern D3D calls, which any Direct-X vid card can
probably handle. Almost exactly the opposite of what 3dfx had to do in
the past (taking D3D and converting to Glide ;-)

So yeah, you could call GliDOS a "wrapper" in this case. The term
"wrapper" is what's making things confusing here. 3dfx used the term
"wrapper" when it meant "emulator," probably because it sounded better
and less kludgy.

<snip>
> > Strangely enough, Half-Life didn't do dual-pass rendering, even though
> > it was based on the Quake engine, so the Banshee's speed was pretty
> > good. It also rocked for "Forsaken" (remember that one?)
>
> Yeah :)  Have it installed for the odd times my son wants to show off
> and kick his old Pop around in it for a little bit! Runs pretty slick
> today for such an oldie. But most games have a seperate renderer option
> for the 3Dfx chips. Meaning GLide I'm guessing. And 'seperate
> rendeerer' equates to an independant API, right? (egads talk about
> breakin all the little parts down to simplest components!)

Yup - Glide was 3dfx's renderer, basically like D3D or OpenGL, although
it predated both of them. It had its own programming API, so if a
program had a 3dfx option, they had probably written a Glide-based
renderer for their game. (For a while, companies had to code for each 3D
card - I can only imagine the headaches that caused...)

--
Kevin Steele
RetroBlast! Retrogaming News and Reviews
www.retroblast.com
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 11:53:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Kevin Steele" <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d4c64dd302b67c4989ee5@news
> McGrandpa thought about it a bit, then said...
>> "Kevin Steele" <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.1d4c0355bb0be04989ee4@news
>>
>> Okay. Now lets either clear or muddy the waters some more :) 
>> GliDOS. It allows one to play the old GLide versions of some DOS
>> games (not Quake, but Tombraider 1, Carmageddon, Redguard and such)
>> in Windows with almost any modern 3D graphics card that's fully
>> supported by Windows. GliDOS is the wrapper and Glide is the API
>> it's intercepting?
>
> GliDOS is a "glide emulator" that takes old Glide commands and
> translates them into modern D3D calls, which any Direct-X vid card can
> probably handle. Almost exactly the opposite of what 3dfx had to do in
> the past (taking D3D and converting to Glide ;-)
>
> So yeah, you could call GliDOS a "wrapper" in this case. The term
> "wrapper" is what's making things confusing here. 3dfx used the term
> "wrapper" when it meant "emulator," probably because it sounded better
> and less kludgy.
>
> <snip>
>>> Strangely enough, Half-Life didn't do dual-pass rendering, even
>>> though it was based on the Quake engine, so the Banshee's speed was
>>> pretty good. It also rocked for "Forsaken" (remember that one?)
>>
>> Yeah :)  Have it installed for the odd times my son wants to show off
>> and kick his old Pop around in it for a little bit! Runs pretty
>> slick today for such an oldie. But most games have a seperate
>> renderer option for the 3Dfx chips. Meaning GLide I'm guessing.
>> And 'seperate rendeerer' equates to an independant API, right?
>> (egads talk about breakin all the little parts down to simplest
>> components!)
>
> Yup - Glide was 3dfx's renderer, basically like D3D or OpenGL,
> although it predated both of them. It had its own programming API, so
> if a program had a 3dfx option, they had probably written a
> Glide-based renderer for their game. (For a while, companies had to
> code for each 3D card - I can only imagine the headaches that
> caused...) I get the picture now :)  That should have clicked a LONG
> time ago!

Because there was no standard API for 3D graphics yet, of course :) 
You're right, it must have been a major headache. Tombraider (the first
DOS based one, all the rest of the TR series ran in Windows DX) has at
least two different executeables for 3Dfx alone, then one each for other
cards like Verite 1000, Matrox (two cards there too) and a couple other
cards. That covered a lot of bases but not near as well as using OpenGL
and/or DirectX do now. As much as folks hate M$, they DID make it
fairly easy to get 3D to pretty much everyone with a video card :\ And
lots of game devs also threw in the API's for OGL, Glide, S3 MEtal, and
just plain software too. Unreal has about 5 renderers available.
Nowdays, in games like HL2, Doom3, Riddick and Far Cry I open up the
config files to tweak standard settings to push my rig to its limits.
Not to enable/disable a renderer :)  Now the headaches are ours!
The last year has given me games that are more fun to mess around with
internally than the whole 19 before it. Except for QUake :)  iD really
opened the floodgate with Quake. I love to tinker, and all these newer
games give us a lot to tinker with.
McG.
Anonymous
July 24, 2005 12:03:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Kevin Steele" <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d4b78317b00971d989ee2@news...
> doctor.ratt thought about it a bit, then said...
>> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:35:52 -0400, Kevin Steele
>> <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote:
>>
>> >doctor.ratt thought about it a bit, then said...
>> >> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:55:09 -0400, Kevin Steele
>> >> <net-replyDEL@DELadelphia.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >ian lincoln thought about it a bit, then said...
>> >> >> Open GL was for Glide.
>> >> >
>> >> >OpenGL has nothing at all to do with Glide. Two completely separate
>> >> >and
>> >> >different graphic interfaces.
>> >> >
>> >> >In fact, 3dfx had to use Glide calls to try and implement OpenGL on
>> >> >their cards.
>> >>
>> >> no McG had it right, glide was a wrapper for the 3dfx driver which
>> >> only used a subset of opengl functionality, 16bit colour being the
>> >> most obvious limitation of the voodoo chipset.
>> >
>> >Glide was a 3dfx proprietary graphics language specifically for their
>> >Voodoo cards, while OpenGL is a vendor-neutral, multi-platform standard
>> >language ("Open Graphics Language", AKA "Open-GL") developed by SGI.
>> >
>> >3dfx's OpenGL driver only implemented a subset of the full OpenGL spec,
>> >and then only through calls to Glide.
>>
>> as i said here:
>>
>> 'glide was a wrapper for the 3dfx driver which
>> only used a subset of opengl functionality,'
>
> Glide _was_ the 3dfx driver.
>
>> it is a 'wrapper' because it insinuates itself between hardware &
>> driver and driver & os.
>>
>> >In fact, they developed glide was a wrapper for the 3dfx driver which
>>
>> >"MiniGL" driver just to run Quake on Voodoo cards.
>> >
>> >McG did not have it right, nor do you.
>>
>> you even say yourself that one is a part [subset] of the other then
>> insist they are independent of one another.
>> you can't have it both ways.
>
> No, one is not a "subset" of the other. Read it again - the 3dfx OpenGL
> driver was a subset of the "official" OpenGL spec, i.e., 3dfx did not
> implement a full OpenGL driver. Nothing to do with Glide
>
> 3dfx _did_ use calls to Glide to implement their OpenGL driver, and
> their MiniGL driver before that. Glide itself did not use a subset of
> OpenGL, GLide was used to implement an OpenGL driver that used a subset
> of the OpenGL spec.
>
> OpenGL, though, was and is in no way associated with or created by 3dfx.
> ian lincoln said that "OpenGL was for Glide," which is inaccurate.
> OpenGL has no relationship or dependencies on Glide (heck, they're not
> even 2nd cousins twice removed ;-) That's the error that I was trying to
> correct in ian lincoln's post.

I consider myself corrected.I do remember glide being mentioned as well as
gl and merely assumed that one was the other. Its an honest mistake
considering the open gl mini gl glide and wrapper being thrown about.

From what i can see is glide is a proprietry 3dfx technology. It isn't a
driver as such. A driver merely tells the rest of the pc what voltages amps
etc go where and connect to what so that the card itself can be used.

Then comes open gl. Graphics language. An open standard for SGI. Voodoo
only implements cirtain features such as its limit to 16 bit support. No
doubt the quake engine didn't implement the entire GL instruction set so in
the sake of efficiency a minigl was constructed. Whether this was done by
Id. (quakes creators) or 3dfx i can't remember. Anyway the miniGL with only
the necessary GL instructions was used. Then came the Glide wrapper. T

This seems to be the confusion. I have seen the glide wrapper and that was
for non voodoo cards to play quake using the minigl. There were also proper
glide versions of cames such as mechwarrior. With a specially released
glide version there was no translation layers of software and the 3dfx
processing time could be devoted entirely to the 3dfx. Whatever version of
direct x was out at the time was not as efficient as the GL standard so it
enabled the same cards to run faster. The quake mini GL was written with
the voodoo chipset in mind.

So in summary. Who used the glide wrapper? I'm sure it was ati and nvidea
to use the mini gl instead of dx to play the quake using the mini gl.

Who developed the minigl? sgi, id or 3dfx?

People on this thread are still confusing what is glide. Some appear to be
saying it is a subset of GL only the relevant directly translatable parts
but is that not just the minigl?

So who wrote the mini gl 3dfx or id?
Anonymous
July 24, 2005 12:18:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
news:je13e1p8m155u6eveutfkg086h3vcfo8km@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 22:30:09 GMT, "McGrandpa"
> <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Well, I "was there!" and have a couple Voodoo2 12 meggers I SLI'd for a
>>little bit :)  But it was the original Voodoo Monster Graphics chipset
>>and then the Rush that DID use the GLide wrappers. The Voodoo2 didn't!
>
> All the Voodoo cards used Glide as their native instruction set.
> OpenGL and D3D support was via wrappers.

ah glide dos. as someone mentioned ealier. i could run quake and
carmageddon inside 98 but if i wanted voodoo acceleration i had to download
a patch and run in dos. I had a diamond monster 3d which was a 3dfx voodoo
chipset. it sat in a pci slot. it ran 3d games only. 2d effects and
normal desktop was a proper agp graphics card. In my case a diamond 3d
2000. I then chucked both and got the banshee. In between was the voodoo 2.
Another bypass 3d only. If you were clever rich and mad you bought a 2nd
voodoo 2 and ran sli. The banshee was the first agp 2d included. It ran
some things faster than individual voodoo2 but 2 v2 sli wiped the floor with
it.

The main rival for the banshee was the nvidea tnt2 ultra. The 64 and other
cheaper ones didn't quite cut it. But they did 32 bit. 3dfx went the 16
bit raw frame rate route and nvidea went for picture quality. Eventually
nvidea managed to match speeds and 3dfx bought up a 2d card manufacturer
rather than simply supply the 3dfx chip. nvidea stayed a chip only
supplier. 3dfx burnt all their bridges with diamond and creative. There
was also lots of driver problems. Having to patch everything didn't help.
Limited to supplying chips to their own line of cards killed 3dfx. i
switched to a geforce 256. More driver problems. nvidea seemed to upgrade
their graphics weekly. Diffierent drivers for different games and all
unstable for all round use. ati brought out their complete download. If it
was ati card with a Radeon series chip then you simply downloaded that.
They seemed more stable and not released every week. So i switched to a
radeon 9000. Still going.
!