Why aren't my VCDs as good as commercial ones?

[Guest]

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Titlle says it really.

I'm a little new to this, so bear with me...

I've been trying to make VCDs from my DV source, but the results are always
dissapointing. I realise it will never be as clear as the original, or even DVD,
but they are really chunky, much worse than commercial VCDs.

I've using Ulead video studio to capture directly in VCD format, that was not so
good. I captured in DV (avi) and made a VCD using Ulead's encoder, that took
twice as long and the result was worse... I tried using Nero to make VCD from
the avi source, that was the same as my first attempt. Still nowhere as good as
commercial VCDs.

I've made SVCDs and they're ok, but I would like to be able to make VCDs of a
quality comparable to commercial ones.

Is it possible to make them as good? Do I need some third party codec or
something?


Chris Pollard

--
CG Internet café, Tagum City, Philippines
http://www.cginternet.net

 

[Guest]

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> I've using Ulead video studio to capture directly in VCD format, that was
not so
> good. I captured in DV (avi) and made a VCD using Ulead's encoder, that
took
> twice as long and the result was worse... I tried using Nero to make VCD
from
> the avi source, that was the same as my first attempt. Still nowhere as
good as
> commercial VCDs.

There's your problem. Ulead and Nero are pathetic MPEG1/VCD encoders. You
are on the right track by capturing to a high quality format such as Huffy,
MJPEG or DV. Then use TMPGenc or ProCoder to encode to VCD.


> I've made SVCDs and they're ok, but I would like to be able to make VCDs
of a
> quality comparable to commercial ones.

It's never going to happen, but you might come close. Commercial VCDs and
DVDs are encoded from very high quality material. DV is very low quality by
comparison.

If your source material is something like a movie or TV show, you should
Inverse Telecine, which will give you around a 20% quality boost. If your
material is interlaced video, VCD is not a good target format anyway, as you
would have to deinterlace, and it will look rubbish. This could be why your
SVCDs look good, as this format supports interlace.



> Is it possible to make them as good? Do I need some third party codec or
> something?

TMPGenc or ProCoder is all you need. I would probably say TMPGenc is
slightly better at MPEG1/VCD than ProCoder.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Christopher Pollard" <rubbish@cginternet.net> wrote in message
newsc4fd097ovbjeg4pc0e7fiudaucbcf69of@4ax.com...
> Titlle says it really.
>
> I'm a little new to this, so bear with me...
>
> I've been trying to make VCDs from my DV source, but the results are
always
> dissapointing. I realise it will never be as clear as the original, or
even DVD,
> but they are really chunky, much worse than commercial VCDs.
>
> I've using Ulead video studio to capture directly in VCD format, that was
not so
> good. I captured in DV (avi) and made a VCD using Ulead's encoder, that
took
> twice as long and the result was worse... I tried using Nero to make VCD
from
> the avi source, that was the same as my first attempt. Still nowhere as
good as
> commercial VCDs.
>
> I've made SVCDs and they're ok, but I would like to be able to make VCDs
of a
> quality comparable to commercial ones.
>
> Is it possible to make them as good? Do I need some third party codec or
> something?

alt.binaries.vcd.d and ask for Dr. Mercury. He will straighten you out
quickly. His rip kit is posted every other day in a couple of binary
groups... and it comes with good documentation.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Christopher Pollard" wrote ...
> I've been trying to make VCDs from my DV source, but the
> results are always dissapointing. I realise it will never be
> as clear as the original, or even DVD, but they are really
> chunky, much worse than commercial VCDs.

Commercial *VCDs* or commercial *DVDs*?
VCDs will always look worse than DVDs because of the
higher compression, by definition, by design.
Where do you even buy "commercial VCDs"?

 

[Brian]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Christopher Pollard <rubbish@cginternet.net> wrote:

>Titlle says it really.
>
>I'm a little new to this, so bear with me...
>
>I've been trying to make VCDs from my DV source, but the results are always
>dissapointing. I realise it will never be as clear as the original, or even DVD,
>but they are really chunky, much worse than commercial VCDs.
>
>I've using Ulead video studio to capture directly in VCD format, that was not so
>good. I captured in DV (avi) and made a VCD using Ulead's encoder, that took
>twice as long and the result was worse... I tried using Nero to make VCD from
>the avi source, that was the same as my first attempt. Still nowhere as good as
>commercial VCDs.
>
>I've made SVCDs and they're ok, but I would like to be able to make VCDs of a
>quality comparable to commercial ones.
>
>Is it possible to make them as good? Do I need some third party codec or
>something?
>
>
>Chris Pollard

Try using the programs VCDEasy or Tmpgenc I've read that many have had
successful results using these programs.
You should be able to download them from
www.dvdrhelp.com (click on the tools option on the left of the
screen).
Also you might like to try Ulead DVD Moviefactory 3 from www.ulead.com
I've had good results when creating a VCD directly from a video source
in real time.

Regards Brian

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:06:11 -0700, "Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net>
wrote:

>Commercial *VCDs* or commercial *DVDs*?

Comercial VCDs, not DVDs.


>Where do you even buy "commercial VCDs"?

Very popular here in the Philippines, widely available in both original and
pirate form. ;-) And rentable from video libraries, who carry more VCDs than VHS
tapes (about 60/39 the remaining 1% is DVD).

DVD is slowly taking over, but the cost of discs is much higher than VCD, and
only recently have players come down to only twice the price of VCD players.
DVDs are about P700 (US$12) whereas VCD are only 150 ($2.70).
Players are P5000 or P2000 respectively.



Chris Pollard

--
CG Internet café, Tagum City, Philippines
http://www.cginternet.net

 

[Guest]

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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 14:58:12 +1200, Brian <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:

>Try using the programs VCDEasy or Tmpgenc I've read that many have had
>successful results using these programs.

Thanks, I'm downloading them now. I might even be able to configure Ulead to use
TMPGEnc as its encoder. That would save me buying VCDEasy.

It's interesting to note that the about VCDEasy page explains what VCD is, and
goes on to say that:

"It did not have a big commercial success around the world"


Hmm... it's hugely popular out here.



Chris Pollard

--
CG Internet café, Tagum City, Philippines
http://www.cginternet.net

 

[Guest]

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Christopher Pollard wrote:
>
> On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 14:58:12 +1200, Brian <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:
>
> >Try using the programs VCDEasy or Tmpgenc I've read that many have had
> >successful results using these programs.
>
> Thanks, I'm downloading them now. I might even be able to configure Ulead to use
> TMPGEnc as its encoder. That would save me buying VCDEasy.

VCDEasy 1.1.4 is free and can be downloaded from www.doom9.org.
But (afaik) this is only for authoring (not encoding).

Wilbert

 

[Guest]

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"Christopher Pollard" wrote in message
> "It did not have a big commercial success around the world"
>
> Hmm... it's hugely popular out here.

And in China, etc. Appears to be popular in places where
"home-made" and pirated copies are popular. Likely because
they can be reproduced by duplication and/or replication as
CDs are. And the kinds/brands of players that are popular in
VCD-land are different than in more DVDish regions, largely
because of the ability to play VCD and other more "obscure"
formats.

 

[Guest]

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"Christopher Pollard" <rubbish@cginternet.net> wrote in message
news:mkmfd0l9s0os861ho5u1akfkajq3fjbpgf@4ax.com...

> >Where do you even buy "commercial VCDs"?
>
> Very popular here in the Philippines, widely available in both original
and
> pirate form. ;-) And rentable from video libraries, who carry more VCDs
than VHS
> tapes (about 60/39 the remaining 1% is DVD).

Extremely popular here in HK too, even though the quality is usually not
even as good as VHS

Gary

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Richard Crowley <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:
(snip)
: Where do you even buy "commercial VCDs"?

In the Boston area you can find them at a local video store in the area ..
imports of course .. I've bought a few

And of course .. there is always eBay

Richard in Boston, MA, USA

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

> : Where do you even buy "commercial VCDs"?

http://www.coolvcd.com/
and millions of other places online and off.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Whenever low bitrates are involved, the trick, IMHO, lies in good
smoothering image processing. Capture an VHS tape as Avi, apply the
best denoising filters, make it into mpeg-1 for Vcd: you'll be
surprised of the result. You get an image that's different from the
original, but that looks very good -looks consistent.

 

[Brian]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Christopher Pollard <rubbish@cginternet.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 14:58:12 +1200, Brian <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:
>
>>Try using the programs VCDEasy or Tmpgenc I've read that many have had
>>successful results using these programs.
>
>Thanks, I'm downloading them now. I might even be able to configure Ulead to use
>TMPGEnc as its encoder. That would save me buying VCDEasy.
>
>It's interesting to note that the about VCDEasy page explains what VCD is, and
>goes on to say that:
>
>"It did not have a big commercial success around the world"
>
>
>Hmm... it's hugely popular out here.
>
>
>
>Chris Pollard

Also there is a utility called KVCD (I think it's an add-on for
Tmpgenc). It claims to give you better quality VCD's and can store up
to three hours of video on a single VCD disk.
Someone in this newsgroup tried it and was pleased with the results.
You can get it from www.dvdrhelp.com

Out of interest are most commerical movies recorded on a single VCD
disk or on two VCD disks?

Regards Brian

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:50:56 +1200, Brian <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:

>Out of interest are most commerical movies recorded on a single VCD
>disk or on two VCD disks?

Two discs usually, each disc holds up to one hour.


Chris Pollard

--
CG Internet café, Tagum City, Philippines
http://www.cginternet.net

 

[Guest]

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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:11:30 +0800, Christopher Pollard <rubbish@cginternet.net>
wrote:

>Thanks, I'm downloading them now. I might even be able to configure Ulead to use
>TMPGEnc as its encoder. That would save me buying VCDEasy.

OK, I got TMPGEnc and it is much better, thanks for the tip. It's still
labourious though, capture, edit, save to avi (this takes ages, can't think why
as it's not actually compressing anything), render the resultant avi, make VCD
from the mpg.
The result is much better than making the VCD with Ulead.

Couldn't use VCDEasy, my download was corrupted. I don't think I need it anyway,
Ulead can do all the authoring I need.

I might try capturing using usb from the camera, to see how well the built-in
encoder works.


Chris Pollard

--
CG Internet café, Tagum City, Philippines
http://www.cginternet.net

 

[Brian]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Christopher Pollard <rubbish@cginternet.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:11:30 +0800, Christopher Pollard <rubbish@cginternet.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Thanks, I'm downloading them now. I might even be able to configure Ulead to use
>>TMPGEnc as its encoder. That would save me buying VCDEasy.
>
>OK, I got TMPGEnc and it is much better, thanks for the tip. It's still
>labourious though, capture, edit, save to avi (this takes ages, can't think why
>as it's not actually compressing anything), render the resultant avi, make VCD
>from the mpg.
>The result is much better than making the VCD with Ulead.
>
>Couldn't use VCDEasy, my download was corrupted. I don't think I need it anyway,
>Ulead can do all the authoring I need.
>
>I might try capturing using usb from the camera, to see how well the built-in
>encoder works.
>

You should get good results from KVCD (from www.dvdrhelp)
It takes a while to compile but it should be worth the wait.

Regards Brian
>
>Chris Pollard

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:19:53 +0800, Christopher Pollard
<rubbish@cginternet.net> wrote:

> It's still labourious though, capture, edit, save to avi (this takes ages, can't think why
>as it's not actually compressing anything),

Your eidting software may be recompressing your footage when you
save. May I ask what software you're using to edit the clips with?
-----------------------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)
-----------------------------------------------------
I have no fears in life,
for I have already survived Theta-G!

 

[Guest]

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On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 21:12:54 -0400, Neil Nadelman <arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz
(ROT13)> wrote:

>> It's still labourious though, capture, edit, save to avi (this takes ages, can't think why
>>as it's not actually compressing anything),
>
> Your eidting software may be recompressing your footage when you
>save. May I ask what software you're using to edit the clips with?

Ulead video studio 7 (I think, not at home just now). It came with a capture
card I bought. I don't think it's compressing much, as the resultant 1 hour was
over 12GB, which is about right.


Chris Pollard

--
CG Internet café, Tagum City, Philippines
http://www.cginternet.net

 

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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:39:01 +0800, "Gary P" <askme@newsgroup> wrote:

>Extremely popular here in HK too, even though the quality is usually not
>even as good as VHS

But much better than a rental tape, with all the damage. Then there are the
tracking issues. Discs are more robust.


Chris Pollard

--
CG Internet café, Tagum City, Philippines
http://www.cginternet.net