New Foveon sensor for digital camcorders

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
first video camera with this record breaking technology.
46 answers Last reply
More about foveon sensor digital camcorders
  1. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    jorge@iamgr8.com (Jorge Prediguez) writes:

    > Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
    > guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
    > first video camera with this record breaking technology.

    They don't need a new sensor. <http://www.foveon.com/faq_oem.html>
    question 4: "Can Foveon X3 direct image sensors be used for video?".

    This won't be "the best video quality ever", though it would offer
    much of the advantage of a 3-chip camera in a much cheaper package.

    --
    -Stephen H. Westin
    Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
    represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "Stephen H. Westin" <westin*nospam@graphics.cornell.edu> wrote in message
    news:s0659aat99.fsf@diesel.graphics.cornell.edu...
    > jorge@iamgr8.com (Jorge Prediguez) writes:
    >
    > > Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
    > > guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
    > > first video camera with this record breaking technology.
    >
    > They don't need a new sensor. <http://www.foveon.com/faq_oem.html>
    > question 4: "Can Foveon X3 direct image sensors be used for video?".
    >
    > This won't be "the best video quality ever", though it would offer
    > much of the advantage of a 3-chip camera in a much cheaper package.

    Actually, it wouldn't -- it's primary advantage would be size and weight.
    3-chip video cameras offer exceptional color reproduction because dichroic
    prisms split the light into primary colors, each of which is directed to a
    monochrome sensor. The result is high color accuracy without interpolation
    or approximation, as well as excellent low-light performance, as there is no
    light loss involved, except that small amount attributable to the prism.
    Foven chips use silicon like a filter -- color is determined based on the
    depth of penetration of photons into a silicon substrate. Color accuracy is
    dependent on interpolation and, as with any filter, there is light loss.

    A Foven-based camcorder might be an improvement, possibly even a dramatic
    improvement, over single-CCD camcorders, assuming the sensor was of
    sufficient size. No Foveon-based camcorder will produce results equivalent
    to a good 3-CCD prosumer unit, e.g. VX2000, GL2 or XL1, absent significant
    improvements in the underlying technology.


    >
    > --
    > -Stephen H. Westin
    > Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
    > represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.
  3. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    In article <d38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com>, Jorge
    Prediguez <jorge@iamgr8.com> wrote:

    > Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
    > guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
    > first video camera with this record breaking technology.

    C'mon George...
  4. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "Jorge Prediguez" <jorge@iamgr8.com> wrote in message
    news:d38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com...
    > Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
    > guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
    > first video camera with this record breaking technology.

    Sounds like a broken record to me, too.
  5. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    is this the infamous orville again?

    i'm still not convinced of buying anything named 'sigma' since i always
    associate it with a bad experience with a similarly named automobile.
    and with all this foveon this and that spamming, isn't it going to give that
    manufacturer, let alone that camera, negative outlooks rather than getting
    people to try it for themselves?

    meh, probably talking to a brick wall anyway.


    "Jorge Prediguez" <jorge@iamgr8.com> wrote in message
    news:d38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com...
    > Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
    > guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
    > first video camera with this record breaking technology.
  6. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "this old user" <nguser2u@spamnot4metwoAOL.com> wrote in message
    news:V2mEc.19612$Fo4.260117@typhoon.sonic.net...
    >
    > "Jorge Prediguez" <jorge@iamgr8.com> wrote in message
    > news:d38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com...
    > > Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
    > > guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
    > > first video camera with this record breaking technology.
    >
    > Sounds like a broken record to me, too.
    >
    >
    When he said the sensors, (which are entirely passive) in other cameras
    cause cancer, he lost all creditability with me............The only way they
    could do that is if you tore them out of the camera and ate them......And
    even then.......
  7. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "Jorge Prediguez" <jorge@iamgr8.com> wrote in message
    news:d38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com...
    > Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
    > guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
    > first video camera with this record breaking technology.

    All that work for a low resolution medium like TV???
  8. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    He can't even spell George correctly.

    "Darrell Larose" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
    news:nxqEc.613874$Ar.216233@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
    >
    > "Jorge Prediguez" <jorge@iamgr8.com> wrote in message
    > news:d38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com...
    > > Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
    > > guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
    > > first video camera with this record breaking technology.
    >
    > All that work for a low resolution medium like TV???
    >
    >
    >
  9. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    please link to your sources... or otherwise you are just spouting rumors

    "Jorge Prediguez" <jorge@iamgr8.com> wrote in message
    news:d38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com...
    > Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
    > guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
    > first video camera with this record breaking technology.
  10. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    PTRAVEL <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >Actually, it wouldn't -- it's primary advantage would be size and weight.
    >3-chip video cameras offer exceptional color reproduction because dichroic
    >prisms split the light into primary colors, each of which is directed to a
    >monochrome sensor. The result is high color accuracy without interpolation
    >or approximation, as well as excellent low-light performance, as there is no
    >light loss involved, except that small amount attributable to the prism.

    As a side question: if full colour information in each pixel is not so
    important (as has been repeated again and again here), why do higher end
    camcorders use three CCDs and a prism to achieve it ?
    --

    Alfred Molon
    ------------------------------
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Olympus_405080/
    Olympus 5050 resource - http://www.molon.de/5050.html
    Olympus 5060 resource - http://www.molon.de/5060.html
    Olympus 8080 resource - http://www.molon.de/8080.html
  11. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "Alex A." <alex_sector@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<YQmEc.70760$sj4.11109@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
    > is this the infamous orville again?
    >
    > i'm still not convinced of buying anything named 'sigma' since i always
    > associate it with a bad experience with a similarly named automobile.
    > and with all this foveon this and that spamming, isn't it going to give that
    > manufacturer, let alone that camera, negative outlooks rather than getting
    > people to try it for themselves?

    Foveon is NOT Sigma. Different companies. Sigma just happens to be a
    camera company that is using an image sensor made by Foveon (different
    company). There's nothing to prevent Nikon or Canon from using Foveon
    sensors if they wanted to. Foveon is the name of a startup company that
    makes sensors, it's not a trademark of Sigma.

    This is why I commented in another thread that Foveon is sometimes blamed
    for design flaws made by Sigma -- something they don't have any say in.

    Mike
  12. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    In article <MPG.1b4c7d5a15cbd6b598a6d9@news.supernews.com>,
    Alfred Molon <alfred_molon@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:
    >PTRAVEL <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >>Actually, it wouldn't -- it's primary advantage would be size and weight.
    >>3-chip video cameras offer exceptional color reproduction because dichroic
    >>prisms split the light into primary colors, each of which is directed to a
    >>monochrome sensor. The result is high color accuracy without interpolation
    >>or approximation, as well as excellent low-light performance, as there is no
    >>light loss involved, except that small amount attributable to the prism.
    >
    >As a side question: if full colour information in each pixel is not so
    >important (as has been repeated again and again here), why do higher end
    >camcorders use three CCDs and a prism to achieve it ?

    It is all about trade-offs. If you can get full color information without
    any loss in resolution, with same sensitivity and signal to noise ratio,
    and in a convenient package, it is a better deal than a sensor that provides
    a lower color resolution.

    For video cameras, the resolution is more or less fixed, and compared to
    the overall size of a (professional) video camera, using three sensors
    is no big deal. I don't know about sensitivity issues. With analog video
    cameras, you don't really want to do any complicated bayer pattern
    image reconstruction. Maybe bayer pattern sensors make sense for HDTV
    video cameras.

    For photo cameras, bayer pattern sensors provide (at the moment) the best
    trade-off in most cases.


    --
    The Electronic Monk was a labor-saving device, like a dishwasher or a video
    recorder. [...] Video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving
    you the bother of looking at it yourself; Electronic Monks believed things for
    you, [...] -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
  13. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "Alfred Molon" <alfred_molon@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:MPG.1b4c7d5a15cbd6b598a6d9@news.supernews.com...
    SNIP
    > As a side question: if full colour information in each pixel is not so
    > important (as has been repeated again and again here), why do higher end
    > camcorders use three CCDs and a prism to achieve it ?

    It has been explained several times as well ;-)

    Camcorders are limited in the number of pixels they can output, given the
    bandwidth limits of the various video signals. The only improvement
    possible, and given the limited image size not prohibitively expensive and
    heavy, is color resolution (however little benefit it brings).

    There are practical limits to increases in zoom range or low light
    capability, so if one seeks to differentiate the product offering from
    cheaper models in the line-up, slightly more accurate color quantization is
    basically all that's left to do.

    Digital still cameras are not bound as strictly to maximum image size in
    pixels, so one can make a trade-off between fewer pixels with higher color
    accuracy than the human eye can see in normal output, or adding more
    sensors/pixels that increase luminance resolution AND improves color
    accuracy, at the expense of higher storage size, lower capture frequency and
    higher cost. Increasing the number of sensors is the avenue chosen by most,
    also because the Bayer CFA sensor fabrication process is very mature and
    relatively low cost due to high yield.

    Bart
  14. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "Georgette Preddy" <georgette_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1067e702.0406300259.7f53c7ba@posting.google.com...
    > "PTRAVEL" <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:<2keaauF1gc8lU1@uni-berlin.de>...
    >
    > > A Foven-based camcorder might be an improvement, possibly even a
    dramatic
    > > improvement, over single-CCD camcorders, assuming the sensor was of
    > > sufficient size. No Foveon-based camcorder will produce results
    equivalent
    > > to a good 3-CCD prosumer unit, e.g. VX2000, GL2 or XL1, absent
    significant
    > > improvements in the underlying technology.
    >
    > The new Foveon P&S due out soon is rumored to have better video
    > quality than any consumer video device, and rivlas 3 chip pro designs.
    > Not a bad deal for a $300 pocket P&S. It is also rumor to be able to
    > capture full size 4.5MP still shots while it is shooting video.

    Rumoured by you.
  15. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "Georgette Preddy" <georgette_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1067e702.0406300259.7f53c7ba@posting.google.com...
    SNIP
    > The new Foveon P&S due out soon is rumored to have better video
    > quality than any consumer video device, and rivlas 3 chip pro designs.
    > Not a bad deal for a $300 pocket P&S. It is also rumor to be able to
    > capture full size 4.5MP still shots while it is shooting video.

    You are wrong, again, as usual.

    It is a Polaroid P&S, and captures 1440 x 1080 pixels (1.56 MP):
    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0406/04062102foveonf19.asp
    This will, in addition to still images, produce video clip capture at VGA
    (!) resolution.

    Bart
  16. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "Alfred Molon" <alfred_molon@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:MPG.1b4c7d5a15cbd6b598a6d9@news.supernews.com...
    > PTRAVEL <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    > >Actually, it wouldn't -- it's primary advantage would be size and weight.
    > >3-chip video cameras offer exceptional color reproduction because
    dichroic
    > >prisms split the light into primary colors, each of which is directed to
    a
    > >monochrome sensor. The result is high color accuracy without
    interpolation
    > >or approximation, as well as excellent low-light performance, as there is
    no
    > >light loss involved, except that small amount attributable to the prism.
    >
    > As a side question: if full colour information in each pixel is not so
    > important (as has been repeated again and again here), why do higher end
    > camcorders use three CCDs and a prism to achieve it ?

    "Full color information" is a meaningless phrase. All camcorder sensors
    provide full color information. What varies is how they do it.

    I've described, in this thread, why a Foveon chip-equipped camcorder will
    not produce as good an image as a 3-ccd camcorder.


    > --
    >
    > Alfred Molon
    > ------------------------------
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Olympus_405080/
    > Olympus 5050 resource - http://www.molon.de/5050.html
    > Olympus 5060 resource - http://www.molon.de/5060.html
    > Olympus 8080 resource - http://www.molon.de/8080.html
  17. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "Georgette Preddy" <georgette_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1067e702.0406300259.7f53c7ba@posting.google.com...
    > "PTRAVEL" <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:<2keaauF1gc8lU1@uni-berlin.de>...
    >
    > > A Foven-based camcorder might be an improvement, possibly even a
    dramatic
    > > improvement, over single-CCD camcorders, assuming the sensor was of
    > > sufficient size. No Foveon-based camcorder will produce results
    equivalent
    > > to a good 3-CCD prosumer unit, e.g. VX2000, GL2 or XL1, absent
    significant
    > > improvements in the underlying technology.
    >
    > The new Foveon P&S due out soon is rumored to have better video
    > quality than any consumer video device,

    Only by you, George. Calling a lie that you made up a "rumor" is exactly
    the same as calling a Foveon p&s with video capability a "prosumer video
    camera."

    > and rivlas 3 chip pro designs.
    > Not a bad deal for a $300 pocket P&S. It is also rumor to be able to
    > capture full size 4.5MP still shots while it is shooting video.
  18. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    Alfred Molon wrote:

    > As a side question: if full colour information in each pixel is not so
    > important (as has been repeated again and again here), why do higher end
    > camcorders use three CCDs and a prism to achieve it ?

    Perhaps because requirements for video are somewhat different than for
    stills.

    For example, my TV displays at 35dpi. That's utterly unacceptable for
    a print but seems to work fine on the telly. In fact I've looked at big
    expensive TVs in shops that are probably less than 20dpi and it's
    surprising how close a viewing distance you can use before the lack of
    resolution becomes intrusive. I can't explain why this should be, but
    it suggests that something different is going on with motion pictures
    than static ones, and assumptions about quality requirements made for
    one should not be carried over to the other.

    Alternatively it may just be a marketing phenomenon. Note that most
    video delivery systems (including analog PAL,NTSC, digital MPEG-1,2)
    have reduced chroma resolution.

    - Len
  19. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "Bart van der Wolf" <bvdwolf@no.spam> wrote in message
    news:40e2b94c$0$42417$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
    >
    > "Georgette Preddy" <georgette_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:1067e702.0406300259.7f53c7ba@posting.google.com...
    > SNIP
    > > The new Foveon P&S due out soon is rumored to have better video
    > > quality than any consumer video device, and rivlas 3 chip pro designs.
    > > Not a bad deal for a $300 pocket P&S. It is also rumor to be able to
    > > capture full size 4.5MP still shots while it is shooting video.
    >
    > You are wrong, again, as usual.
    >
    > It is a Polaroid P&S, and captures 1440 x 1080 pixels (1.56 MP):
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0406/04062102foveonf19.asp
    > This will, in addition to still images, produce video clip capture at VGA
    > (!) resolution.
    >
    > Bart
    >

    Perhaps he's referring to this: http://www.foveon.com/press_x530.html

    "Las Vegas, NV (February 11, 2004) - Foveon Inc., a technology leader in
    high-quality digital image capture products, announced today that a new
    Polaroid brand digital camera will incorporate the 4.5 megapixel Foveon X3
    direct image sensor. The camera is the world's first point-and-shoot digital
    camera to incorporate X3 technology. Foveon X3 direct image sensors are the
    only image sensors that directly capture color in three layers, just like
    color film. This results in richer colors, warmer tones, and sharper images
    than are available through traditional image sensors."

    Regards,

    Hal Lowe
    http://hals.vstoremarket.com (HaloweGraphics SuperStore)
    http://www.halowe-graphics.com/tinc?key=0TmhZVQ5&formname=web_email
    http://www.halowe-graphics.com/music.html (free original MP3 background
    audios)
    http://1and1.com/?k_id=7391019 (Best website host/great prices)
  20. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    In rec.photo.equipment.35mm Georgette Preddy <georgette_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > "PTRAVEL" <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2keaauF1gc8lU1@uni-berlin.de>...
    >
    > > A Foven-based camcorder might be an improvement, possibly even a dramatic
    > > improvement, over single-CCD camcorders, assuming the sensor was of
    > > sufficient size. No Foveon-based camcorder will produce results equivalent
    > > to a good 3-CCD prosumer unit, e.g. VX2000, GL2 or XL1, absent significant
    > > improvements in the underlying technology.
    >
    > The new Foveon P&S due out soon is rumored to have better video
    > quality than any consumer video device, and rivlas 3 chip pro designs.
    > Not a bad deal for a $300 pocket P&S. It is also rumor to be able to
    > capture full size 4.5MP still shots while it is shooting video.

    must be the same source as that "rumour" of Moon being made of cheese

    --
    Sander

    +++ Out of cheese error +++
  21. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote in message
    news:jaCEc.27890$Av3.21457@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
    SNIP
    > Perhaps he's referring to this: http://www.foveon.com/press_x530.html
    SNIP

    It's the same sensor used in the Polaroid
    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530.asp
    and it is 1440 x 1080 pixels.

    Bart
  22. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "Bart van der Wolf" <bvdwolf@no.spam> wrote in message
    news:40e2f188$0$6968$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
    >
    > "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote in message
    > news:jaCEc.27890$Av3.21457@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
    > SNIP
    > > Perhaps he's referring to this: http://www.foveon.com/press_x530.html
    > SNIP
    >
    > It's the same sensor used in the Polaroid
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530.asp
    > and it is 1440 x 1080 pixels.
    >
    > Bart
    >

    Hi Bart,

    Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
    indeed a 4.5MP. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530.asp
    It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information (?).
    So, I'm a bit confused.

    I'm not finding the reference supporting your claim. Since I do _try_ to
    follow these things closely, I'd appreciate your pointing out the specific
    reference for me. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I really do want
    to understand your point.

    TIA,

    Hal Lowe
    http://hals.vstoremarket.com (HaloweGraphics SuperStore)
    http://www.halowe-graphics.com/tinc?key=0TmhZVQ5&formname=web_email
    http://www.halowe-graphics.com/music.html (free original MP3 background
    audios)
    http://www.halowe-graphics.com/photo.html (free original video textures)
    http://wc.halowe-graphics.com (college student & prof resources)
    http://1and1.com/?k_id=7391019 (Best website host/great prices)
  23. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    On 2004-06-30, Hal <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote:
    > "Bart van der Wolf" <bvdwolf@no.spam> wrote in message
    > news:40e2f188$0$6968$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
    >>
    >> "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote in message
    >> news:jaCEc.27890$Av3.21457@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
    >>
    >> It's the same sensor used in the Polaroid
    >> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530.asp
    >> and it is 1440 x 1080 pixels.

    > Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
    > indeed a 4.5MP. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530.asp
    > It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information (?).
    > So, I'm a bit confused.

    The imaging sensor has 1440 x 1080 x 3 photosensors (i.e. the Foveon
    3-layer stacked pixels.) Foveon thinks the JCIA guidelines allow them
    to claim each photosensor as a "pixel". Others disagree.

    The Polaroid camera will use software interpolation to produce a
    maximum output size of 2460 x 1836 (i.e., 4.5M) pixels. Again, the
    reasonableness of advertising this as a 4.5 megapixel camera is
    controversial.

    --
    Erik
  24. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "E. Magnuson" <edjpgcom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:TnEEc.2026$Bv.294295@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
    > On 2004-06-30, Hal <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote:
    > > "Bart van der Wolf" <bvdwolf@no.spam> wrote in message
    > > news:40e2f188$0$6968$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
    > >>
    > >> "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote in message
    > >> news:jaCEc.27890$Av3.21457@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
    > >>
    > >> It's the same sensor used in the Polaroid
    > >> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530.asp
    > >> and it is 1440 x 1080 pixels.
    >
    > > Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
    > > indeed a 4.5MP.
    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530.asp
    > > It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information
    (?).
    > > So, I'm a bit confused.
    >
    > The imaging sensor has 1440 x 1080 x 3 photosensors (i.e. the Foveon
    > 3-layer stacked pixels.) Foveon thinks the JCIA guidelines allow them
    > to claim each photosensor as a "pixel". Others disagree.
    >
    > The Polaroid camera will use software interpolation to produce a
    > maximum output size of 2460 x 1836 (i.e., 4.5M) pixels. Again, the
    > reasonableness of advertising this as a 4.5 megapixel camera is
    > controversial.
    >
    > --
    > Erik

    Hi Erik,

    Got it. Thanks. Then the original poster wasn't necessarily wrong, he was
    just espousing a different point of view.

    Thanks again for the clarification!

    Hal Lowe
    http://hals.vstoremarket.com (HaloweGraphics SuperStore)
    http://www.halowe-graphics.com/tinc?key=0TmhZVQ5&formname=web_email
    http://www.halowe-graphics.com/photo.html (free original video textures &
    MP3 background audio)
    http://1and1.com/?k_id=7391019 (Best website host/great prices)
  25. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:55:23 -0700, "PTRAVEL"
    <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >Actually, it wouldn't -- it's primary advantage would be size and weight.
    >3-chip video cameras offer exceptional color reproduction because dichroic
    >prisms split the light into primary colors, each of which is directed to a
    >monochrome sensor.

    So, you are saying that companies like Panavision, Arri, Kinetta and
    Thomson are wrong using a one-chip for their high-end e-Cine camera's?
    Interesting :)

    cheers

    -martin-

    --
    "Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright
    until you hear them speak."
  26. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    <mheffels@nessguy.com> wrote in message
    news:hu75e09adolsc4lla2rai4d1ga8dmpm78r@4ax.com...
    > On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:55:23 -0700, "PTRAVEL"
    > <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    > >Actually, it wouldn't -- it's primary advantage would be size and weight.
    > >3-chip video cameras offer exceptional color reproduction because
    dichroic
    > >prisms split the light into primary colors, each of which is directed to
    a
    > >monochrome sensor.
    >
    > So, you are saying that companies like Panavision, Arri, Kinetta and
    > Thomson are wrong using a one-chip for their high-end e-Cine camera's?
    > Interesting :)

    I wasn't aware either made digital cameras, nor have I heard of e-Cine.
    Regardless, no prosumer-grade camera is single chip.

    >
    > cheers
    >
    > -martin-
    >
    > --
    > "Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright
    > until you hear them speak."
  27. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "PTRAVEL" <ptravel@ruyitang.com> wrote in message
    news:x1BEc.79562$i57.22940@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    > I wasn't aware either made digital cameras, nor have I heard of e-Cine.
    > Regardless, no prosumer-grade camera is single chip.
    >
    I predict that single chip technology will eventually replace
    3 chip technology, in much the same manner that a
    single strip of color film has now pretty much replaced
    using 3 separate strips of monochrome film when
    capturing moving color images.

    A single piece of film may not be the best way to
    make a movie, but everybody is doing it these days :-)

    David
  28. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "print_maker" <print_maker@spamfesthotmail.com> wrote in message news:<uKqEc.1825$IQ4.254@attbi_s02>...
    > please link to your sources... or otherwise you are just spouting rumors
    >
    > "Jorge Prediguez" <jorge@iamgr8.com> wrote in message
    > news:d38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com...
    > > Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
    > > guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
    > > first video camera with this record breaking technology.

    Here's one point for him (you have 0)...

    http://www.hanvision.com/
  29. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote in message
    news:FoDEc.23207$Xn.13743@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
    > "Bart van der Wolf" <bvdwolf@no.spam> wrote in message
    > news:40e2f188$0$6968$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
    > >
    > > "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote in message
    > > news:jaCEc.27890$Av3.21457@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
    > > SNIP
    > > > Perhaps he's referring to this: http://www.foveon.com/press_x530.html
    > > SNIP
    > >
    > > It's the same sensor used in the Polaroid
    > > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530.asp
    > > and it is 1440 x 1080 pixels.
    > >
    > > Bart
    > >
    >
    > Hi Bart,
    >
    > Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
    > indeed a 4.5MP. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530.asp
    > It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information (?).
    > So, I'm a bit confused.

    That is exactly what Foveon intended, confusion.
    It's a 1440 x 1080 pixel sensor array (RGB sensors).
    The output can be interpolated, or not, or sensors can be binned, but it is
    still a 1440 x1080 pixel sensor array.

    Bart
  30. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "Bart van der Wolf" <bvdwolf@no.spam> wrote in message
    news:40e33772$0$34762$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
    >
    > "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote in message
    > news:FoDEc.23207$Xn.13743@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
    > > "Bart van der Wolf" <bvdwolf@no.spam> wrote in message
    > > news:40e2f188$0$6968$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
    > > >
    > > > "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote in message
    > > > news:jaCEc.27890$Av3.21457@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
    > > > SNIP
    > > > > Perhaps he's referring to this:
    http://www.foveon.com/press_x530.html
    > > > SNIP
    > > >
    > > > It's the same sensor used in the Polaroid
    > > > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530.asp
    > > > and it is 1440 x 1080 pixels.
    > > >
    > > > Bart
    > > >
    > >
    > > Hi Bart,
    > >
    > > Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
    > > indeed a 4.5MP.
    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530.asp
    > > It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information
    (?).
    > > So, I'm a bit confused.
    >
    > That is exactly what Foveon intended, confusion.
    > It's a 1440 x 1080 pixel sensor array (RGB sensors).
    > The output can be interpolated, or not, or sensors can be binned, but it
    is
    > still a 1440 x1080 pixel sensor array.
    >
    > Bart
    >

    Hi Bart,

    Ah, now I understand your point. Thanks.

    Well, I guess we'll find out for sure how well it performs in short order,
    regardless of how it's rated/classified.

    Thanks again. :-)

    Hal Lowe
    http://hals.vstoremarket.com (HaloweGraphics SuperStore)
    http://www.halowe-graphics.com/tinc?key=0TmhZVQ5&formname=web_email
    http://www.halowe-graphics.com/music.html (free original MP3 background
    audios)
    http://1and1.com/?k_id=7391019 (Best website host/great prices)
  31. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    In article
    <d38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com>,
    jorge@iamgr8.com says...
    > Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
    > guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
    > first video camera with this record breaking technology.
    >

    This guy is guy named:
    George Preddy in disguise.
    He causes all kinds of trouble and hypes up Sigma?
    foveon

    Look at his name: Jorge = George
    Preddy in disguise

    Search George Preddy under digital photo forums for
    more details


    --
    www.fiveminutesoffame.com
    Get your five minutes of FAME
  32. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "Five" <Niko@fiveminutesof____.com> wrote in message
    news:dZLEc.8054$a24.1232@attbi_s03...
    > In article
    > <d38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com>,
    > jorge@iamgr8.com says...
    > > Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
    > > guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
    > > first video camera with this record breaking technology.
    > >
    >
    > This guy is guy named:
    > George Preddy in disguise.
    > He causes all kinds of trouble and hypes up Sigma?
    > foveon
    >
    > Look at his name: Jorge = George
    > Preddy in disguise
    >
    > Search George Preddy under digital photo forums for
    > more details

    Assuming you actually give a fat flying rip.
  33. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    In article
    <1067e702.0406300259.7f53c7ba@posting.google.com>,
    georgette_preddy@yahoo.com says...
    > "PTRAVEL" <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2keaauF1gc8lU1@uni-berlin.de>...
    >
    > > A Foven-based camcorder might be an improvement, possibly even a dramatic
    > > improvement, over single-CCD camcorders, assuming the sensor was of
    > > sufficient size. No Foveon-based camcorder will produce results equivalent
    > > to a good 3-CCD prosumer unit, e.g. VX2000, GL2 or XL1, absent significant
    > > improvements in the underlying technology.
    >
    > The new Foveon P&S due out soon is rumored to have better video
    > quality than any consumer video device, and rivlas 3 chip pro designs.
    > Not a bad deal for a $300 pocket P&S. It is also rumor to be able to
    > capture full size 4.5MP still shots while it is shooting video.
    >

    troll.....search george preddy


    --
    www.fiveminutesoffame.com
    Get your five minutes of FAME
  34. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:31:41 GMT, "PTRAVEL" <ptravel@ruyitang.com>
    wrote:

    >> So, you are saying that companies like Panavision, Arri, Kinetta and
    >> Thomson are wrong using a one-chip for their high-end e-Cine camera's?
    >> Interesting :)
    >
    >I wasn't aware either made digital cameras, nor have I heard of e-Cine.

    e-Cine is the modern name for electronic image aquisition for cinema.

    http://www.kinetta.com/home.php
    http://www.dalsa.com/dc/dc.asp
    http://www.dalsa.com/dc/documents/Image_Sensor_Architecture_Whitepaper_Digital_Cinema_00218-00_03-70.pdf
    http://www.arri.com/news/newsletter/articles/09211103/d20.htm

    And sorry, but my memory failed me. The Thomson Viper is 3-CCD

    >Regardless, no prosumer-grade camera is single chip.

    Regardless, the days of 3-chippers are numbered :)

    cheers

    -martin-

    --
    "Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright
    until you hear them speak."
  35. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    <mheffels@nessguy.com> wrote in message
    news:h4m6e0p4bopm1ftaq3icdnskab1amne7fp@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:31:41 GMT, "PTRAVEL" <ptravel@ruyitang.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >> So, you are saying that companies like Panavision, Arri, Kinetta and
    > >> Thomson are wrong using a one-chip for their high-end e-Cine camera's?
    > >> Interesting :)
    > >
    > >I wasn't aware either made digital cameras, nor have I heard of e-Cine.
    >
    > e-Cine is the modern name for electronic image aquisition for cinema.

    I didn't know that. Thanks.

    >
    > http://www.kinetta.com/home.php
    > http://www.dalsa.com/dc/dc.asp
    >
    http://www.dalsa.com/dc/documents/Image_Sensor_Architecture_Whitepaper_Digital_Cinema_00218-00_03-70.pdf
    > http://www.arri.com/news/newsletter/articles/09211103/d20.htm
    >
    > And sorry, but my memory failed me. The Thomson Viper is 3-CCD

    How about the others?

    >
    > >Regardless, no prosumer-grade camera is single chip.
    >
    > Regardless, the days of 3-chippers are numbered :)

    Well, sure, but this amateur Foveon camera touted by George Preddy hasn't
    started the count.

    >
    > cheers
    >
    > -martin-
    >
    > --
    > "Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright
    > until you hear them speak."
  36. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 05:38:13 GMT, "PTRAVEL" <ptravel@ruyitang.com>
    wrote:

    >I didn't know that. Thanks.

    yw

    >How about the others?

    They are 1-chippers with Bayer-filtering. Most manufacturers in the
    serious digital cinematography, are using designs based on 1-chip.
    Apparently one of the main problems was Bayer-filter induced
    artifacts, which can be taken out by a dose of maths, but required
    more horsepower for moving images. This seems to have been solved.
    I would say that if 3-CCD's were the way to go, purists like
    cinematographers, would never embrace 1-chip designs, and they are
    all raving and drooling with the latest offerings.

    >Well, sure, but this amateur Foveon camera touted by George Preddy hasn't
    >started the count.

    Probably not. But it probably won't take long for these technologies
    to trickle down to the pro-sumer market. For home-use I don't really
    see this happen in this decade.

    cheers

    -martin-
  37. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    In message <s0659aat99.fsf@diesel.graphics.cornell.edu>,
    westin*nospam@graphics.cornell.edu (Stephen H. Westin) wrote:

    >jorge@iamgr8.com (Jorge Prediguez) writes:
    >
    >> Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
    >> guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
    >> first video camera with this record breaking technology.
    >
    >They don't need a new sensor. <http://www.foveon.com/faq_oem.html>
    >question 4: "Can Foveon X3 direct image sensors be used for video?".
    >
    >This won't be "the best video quality ever", though it would offer
    >much of the advantage of a 3-chip camera in a much cheaper package.

    The Hue noise inherent in the Foveon sensors is not fine, but rather,
    blotchy, and doesn't disappear upon downsizing 4.3MP to 0.3MP.
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
  38. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    In message <FoDEc.23207$Xn.13743@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>,
    "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote:

    >Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
    >indeed a 4.5MP. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530.asp
    >It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information (?).
    >So, I'm a bit confused.
    >
    >I'm not finding the reference supporting your claim. Since I do _try_ to
    >follow these things closely, I'd appreciate your pointing out the specific
    >reference for me. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I really do want
    >to understand your point.

    Foveon is trying to hype their products by tripling the number of actual
    pixels in their marketing language. What they call a 4.5MP sensor is
    actually a 1.5MP sensor that detects three color bands at each pixel.
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
  39. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    That is the hype the way I understood it also. This sounds like the
    advertising of scam artists and theives.

    <JPS@no.komm> wrote in message
    news:7v9ge01be7s345a83tg50g0699hqkchuh8@4ax.com...
    > In message <FoDEc.23207$Xn.13743@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>,
    > "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote:
    >
    > >Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
    > >indeed a 4.5MP.
    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530.asp
    > >It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information
    (?).
    > >So, I'm a bit confused.
    > >
    > >I'm not finding the reference supporting your claim. Since I do _try_ to
    > >follow these things closely, I'd appreciate your pointing out the
    specific
    > >reference for me. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I really do
    want
    > >to understand your point.
    >
    > Foveon is trying to hype their products by tripling the number of actual
    > pixels in their marketing language. What they call a 4.5MP sensor is
    > actually a 1.5MP sensor that detects three color bands at each pixel.
    > --
    >
    > <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    > John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm>
    > ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
  40. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    In message <0radnSVI5KVVpXXdRVn-jg@golden.net>,
    "Gymmy Bob" <nospamming@bite.me> wrote:

    >That is the hype the way I understood it also. This sounds like the
    >advertising of scam artists and theives.

    It's nothing but connotative bait-and-switch.

    Change the meaning of pixel so that it has nothing to do with with
    spatial resolution anymore, say you have more pixels, hoping that the
    reader thinks it means more spatial resolution. Truly Pathetic.
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
  41. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "George Preddy" <george_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:e61e09e9.0407050309.44fc873d@posting.google.com...
    > JPS@no.komm wrote in message
    news:<7v9ge01be7s345a83tg50g0699hqkchuh8@4ax.com>...
    SNIP
    > > Foveon is trying to hype their products by tripling the number
    > > of actual pixels in their marketing language. What they call a
    > > 4.5MP sensor is actually a 1.5MP sensor that detects three
    > > color bands at each pixel.
    >
    > As opposed to other manufacturers calling sensing 1 color band,
    > sensing a full color pixel.

    You are wrong again, as usual.

    Other manufacturers don't say they sense full color per sensel. All they say
    is that they output an RGB pixel, regardless of the filters used.

    Bart
  42. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    "George Preddy" <george_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:e61e09e9.0407050309.39548949@posting.google.com...
    SNIP
    > As opposed to other manufacturers...

    Double posting only makes you double wrong.

    Bart
  43. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    In message <e61e09e9.0407050309.44fc873d@posting.google.com>,
    george_preddy@yahoo.com (George Preddy) wrote:

    >JPS@no.komm wrote in message news:<7v9ge01be7s345a83tg50g0699hqkchuh8@4ax.com>...
    >> In message <FoDEc.23207$Xn.13743@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>,
    >> "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote:

    >> >Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
    >> >indeed a 4.5MP. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530.asp
    >> >It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information (?).
    >> >So, I'm a bit confused.

    >> >I'm not finding the reference supporting your claim. Since I do _try_ to
    >> >follow these things closely, I'd appreciate your pointing out the specific
    >> >reference for me. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I really do want
    >> >to understand your point.

    >> Foveon is trying to hype their products by tripling the number of actual
    >> pixels in their marketing language. What they call a 4.5MP sensor is
    >> actually a 1.5MP sensor that detects three color bands at each pixel.

    >As opposed to other manufacturers calling sensing 1 color band,
    >sensing a full color pixel.

    I haven't seen a single manufacturer claim that full color is sensed at
    each Bayer pixel.

    >The Foveon 5M (thier P&S sensor) is a 6MP chip, not 4.5MP. It outputs
    >6M pixels (3000 x 2000) from 1.5M complete RGB triples, which is
    >exactly the same as the Canon 10D but with DRAMATICALLY lower noise
    >and increased DR.

    No, it's not exactly the same at all, and only an ignorant person would
    think so, and only a moron would continue to say so after being proven
    wrong so many times. There is absolutely no basis for the existence of
    3/4 of the pixels when you interpolate foveon output to 4x as many
    pixels. The "native resolution" of the Bayer cameras is the number of
    sensors.

    >Foveon continues to be ridiculously conservative in their MPs rating
    >compared to Bayer manufactures who often list 800% interpolatively
    >upscaled images as the actual MP count (Fuji)!!

    No, they don't; they continue to lie as they exaggerate their pixel
    count by 3x, and you continue to lie as you exaggerate by 4x.
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
  44. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    My 1 megapixel fuji doesn't have the noise in low light either. Oh yeah.
    Either does my 2 megapixel fuji.


    "George Preddy" <george_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:e61e09e9.0407050309.39548949@posting.google.com...
    > JPS@no.komm wrote in message
    news:<7v9ge01be7s345a83tg50g0699hqkchuh8@4ax.com>...
    > > In message <FoDEc.23207$Xn.13743@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>,
    > > "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote:
    > >
    > > >Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it
    is
    > > >indeed a 4.5MP.
    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530.asp
    > > >It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information
    (?).
    > > >So, I'm a bit confused.
    > > >
    > > >I'm not finding the reference supporting your claim. Since I do _try_
    to
    > > >follow these things closely, I'd appreciate your pointing out the
    specific
    > > >reference for me. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I really do
    want
    > > >to understand your point.
    > >
    > > Foveon is trying to hype their products by tripling the number of actual
    > > pixels in their marketing language. What they call a 4.5MP sensor is
    > > actually a 1.5MP sensor that detects three color bands at each pixel.
    >
    > As opposed to other manufacturers calling sensing 1 color band,
    > sensing a full color pixel.
    >
    > The Foveon 5M (thier P&S sensor) is a 6MP chip, not 4.5MP. It outputs
    > 6M pixels (3000 x 2000) from 1.5M complete RGB triples, which is
    > exactly the same as the Canon 10D but with DRAMATICALLY lower noise
    > and increased DR.
    >
    > Foveon continues to be ridiculously conservative in their MPs rating
    > compared to Bayer manufactures who often list 800% interpolatively
    > upscaled images as the actual MP count (Fuji)!!
  45. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    In rec.photo.equipment.35mm George Preddy <george_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > JPS@no.komm wrote in message news:<7v9ge01be7s345a83tg50g0699hqkchuh8@4ax.com>...
    > > In message <FoDEc.23207$Xn.13743@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>,
    > > "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote:
    > >
    > > >Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
    > > >indeed a 4.5MP. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530.asp
    > > >It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information (?).
    > > >So, I'm a bit confused.
    > > >
    > > >I'm not finding the reference supporting your claim. Since I do _try_ to
    > > >follow these things closely, I'd appreciate your pointing out the specific
    > > >reference for me. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I really do want
    > > >to understand your point.
    > >
    > > Foveon is trying to hype their products by tripling the number of actual
    > > pixels in their marketing language. What they call a 4.5MP sensor is
    > > actually a 1.5MP sensor that detects three color bands at each pixel.
    >
    > As opposed to other manufacturers calling sensing 1 color band,
    > sensing a full color pixel.

    Care to name any camera maufcaturer doing that with their SLR cameras?

    >
    > The Foveon 5M (thier P&S sensor) is a 6MP chip, not 4.5MP. It outputs
    > 6M pixels (3000 x 2000) from 1.5M complete RGB triples, which is
    > exactly the same as the Canon 10D but with DRAMATICALLY lower noise
    > and increased DR.

    1.5 M complete RGB triplets are 1.5 megapixels - not 3 and certainly not
    6 megapixels.

    >
    > Foveon continues to be ridiculously conservative in their MPs rating
    > compared to Bayer manufactures who often list 800% interpolatively
    > upscaled images as the actual MP count (Fuji)!!

    Not only bullshit but also completely off-topic (this group is about
    35mm film equipment) bullshit.

    --
    Sander

    +++ Out of cheese error +++
  46. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

    On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 19:34:02 +0000 (UTC), Sander Vesik
    <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee> wrote:

    >Not only bullshit but also completely off-topic (this group is about
    >35mm film equipment) bullshit.

    Actually, this went to all these newsgroups:
    rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras
    I'm sure you can get your reader to tell you this.

    Bill Funk
    Change "g" to "a"
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