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New Foveon sensor for digital camcorders

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Anonymous
June 29, 2004 7:23:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
first video camera with this record breaking technology.
Anonymous
June 29, 2004 10:34:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

jorge@iamgr8.com (Jorge Prediguez) writes:

> Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
> guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
> first video camera with this record breaking technology.

They don't need a new sensor. <http://www.foveon.com/faq_oem.html&gt;
question 4: "Can Foveon X3 direct image sensors be used for video?".

This won't be "the best video quality ever", though it would offer
much of the advantage of a 3-chip camera in a much cheaper package.

--
-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.
Anonymous
June 29, 2004 10:34:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"Stephen H. Westin" <westin*nospam@graphics.cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:s0659aat99.fsf@diesel.graphics.cornell.edu...
> jorge@iamgr8.com (Jorge Prediguez) writes:
>
> > Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
> > guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
> > first video camera with this record breaking technology.
>
> They don't need a new sensor. <http://www.foveon.com/faq_oem.html&gt;
> question 4: "Can Foveon X3 direct image sensors be used for video?".
>
> This won't be "the best video quality ever", though it would offer
> much of the advantage of a 3-chip camera in a much cheaper package.

Actually, it wouldn't -- it's primary advantage would be size and weight.
3-chip video cameras offer exceptional color reproduction because dichroic
prisms split the light into primary colors, each of which is directed to a
monochrome sensor. The result is high color accuracy without interpolation
or approximation, as well as excellent low-light performance, as there is no
light loss involved, except that small amount attributable to the prism.
Foven chips use silicon like a filter -- color is determined based on the
depth of penetration of photons into a silicon substrate. Color accuracy is
dependent on interpolation and, as with any filter, there is light loss.

A Foven-based camcorder might be an improvement, possibly even a dramatic
improvement, over single-CCD camcorders, assuming the sensor was of
sufficient size. No Foveon-based camcorder will produce results equivalent
to a good 3-CCD prosumer unit, e.g. VX2000, GL2 or XL1, absent significant
improvements in the underlying technology.


>
> --
> -Stephen H. Westin
> Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
> represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.
Related resources
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 1:23:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

In article <d38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com>, Jorge
Prediguez <jorge@iamgr8.com> wrote:

> Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
> guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
> first video camera with this record breaking technology.

C'mon George...
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 2:29:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"Jorge Prediguez" <jorge@iamgr8.com> wrote in message
news:D 38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com...
> Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
> guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
> first video camera with this record breaking technology.

Sounds like a broken record to me, too.
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 3:22:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

is this the infamous orville again?

i'm still not convinced of buying anything named 'sigma' since i always
associate it with a bad experience with a similarly named automobile.
and with all this foveon this and that spamming, isn't it going to give that
manufacturer, let alone that camera, negative outlooks rather than getting
people to try it for themselves?

meh, probably talking to a brick wall anyway.


"Jorge Prediguez" <jorge@iamgr8.com> wrote in message
news:D 38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com...
> Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
> guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
> first video camera with this record breaking technology.
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 3:50:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"this old user" <nguser2u@spamnot4metwoAOL.com> wrote in message
news:V2mEc.19612$Fo4.260117@typhoon.sonic.net...
>
> "Jorge Prediguez" <jorge@iamgr8.com> wrote in message
> news:D 38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com...
> > Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
> > guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
> > first video camera with this record breaking technology.
>
> Sounds like a broken record to me, too.
>
>
When he said the sensors, (which are entirely passive) in other cameras
cause cancer, he lost all creditability with me............The only way they
could do that is if you tore them out of the camera and ate them......And
even then.......
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 7:34:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"Jorge Prediguez" <jorge@iamgr8.com> wrote in message
news:D 38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com...
> Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
> guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
> first video camera with this record breaking technology.

All that work for a low resolution medium like TV???
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 7:34:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

He can't even spell George correctly.

"Darrell Larose" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:nxqEc.613874$Ar.216233@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
>
> "Jorge Prediguez" <jorge@iamgr8.com> wrote in message
> news:D 38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com...
> > Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
> > guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
> > first video camera with this record breaking technology.
>
> All that work for a low resolution medium like TV???
>
>
>
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 7:48:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

please link to your sources... or otherwise you are just spouting rumors

"Jorge Prediguez" <jorge@iamgr8.com> wrote in message
news:D 38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com...
> Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
> guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
> first video camera with this record breaking technology.
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 12:34:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

PTRAVEL <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Actually, it wouldn't -- it's primary advantage would be size and weight.
>3-chip video cameras offer exceptional color reproduction because dichroic
>prisms split the light into primary colors, each of which is directed to a
>monochrome sensor. The result is high color accuracy without interpolation
>or approximation, as well as excellent low-light performance, as there is no
>light loss involved, except that small amount attributable to the prism.

As a side question: if full colour information in each pixel is not so
important (as has been repeated again and again here), why do higher end
camcorders use three CCDs and a prism to achieve it ?
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Olympus_405080/
Olympus 5050 resource - http://www.molon.de/5050.html
Olympus 5060 resource - http://www.molon.de/5060.html
Olympus 8080 resource - http://www.molon.de/8080.html
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 2:11:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"Alex A." <alex_sector@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<YQmEc.70760$sj4.11109@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> is this the infamous orville again?
>
> i'm still not convinced of buying anything named 'sigma' since i always
> associate it with a bad experience with a similarly named automobile.
> and with all this foveon this and that spamming, isn't it going to give that
> manufacturer, let alone that camera, negative outlooks rather than getting
> people to try it for themselves?

Foveon is NOT Sigma. Different companies. Sigma just happens to be a
camera company that is using an image sensor made by Foveon (different
company). There's nothing to prevent Nikon or Canon from using Foveon
sensors if they wanted to. Foveon is the name of a startup company that
makes sensors, it's not a trademark of Sigma.

This is why I commented in another thread that Foveon is sometimes blamed
for design flaws made by Sigma -- something they don't have any say in.

Mike
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 2:51:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

In article <MPG.1b4c7d5a15cbd6b598a6d9@news.supernews.com>,
Alfred Molon <alfred_molon@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:
>PTRAVEL <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>Actually, it wouldn't -- it's primary advantage would be size and weight.
>>3-chip video cameras offer exceptional color reproduction because dichroic
>>prisms split the light into primary colors, each of which is directed to a
>>monochrome sensor. The result is high color accuracy without interpolation
>>or approximation, as well as excellent low-light performance, as there is no
>>light loss involved, except that small amount attributable to the prism.
>
>As a side question: if full colour information in each pixel is not so
>important (as has been repeated again and again here), why do higher end
>camcorders use three CCDs and a prism to achieve it ?

It is all about trade-offs. If you can get full color information without
any loss in resolution, with same sensitivity and signal to noise ratio,
and in a convenient package, it is a better deal than a sensor that provides
a lower color resolution.

For video cameras, the resolution is more or less fixed, and compared to
the overall size of a (professional) video camera, using three sensors
is no big deal. I don't know about sensitivity issues. With analog video
cameras, you don't really want to do any complicated bayer pattern
image reconstruction. Maybe bayer pattern sensors make sense for HDTV
video cameras.

For photo cameras, bayer pattern sensors provide (at the moment) the best
trade-off in most cases.



--
The Electronic Monk was a labor-saving device, like a dishwasher or a video
recorder. [...] Video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving
you the bother of looking at it yourself; Electronic Monks believed things for
you, [...] -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 3:26:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"Alfred Molon" <alfred_molon@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b4c7d5a15cbd6b598a6d9@news.supernews.com...
SNIP
> As a side question: if full colour information in each pixel is not so
> important (as has been repeated again and again here), why do higher end
> camcorders use three CCDs and a prism to achieve it ?

It has been explained several times as well ;-)

Camcorders are limited in the number of pixels they can output, given the
bandwidth limits of the various video signals. The only improvement
possible, and given the limited image size not prohibitively expensive and
heavy, is color resolution (however little benefit it brings).

There are practical limits to increases in zoom range or low light
capability, so if one seeks to differentiate the product offering from
cheaper models in the line-up, slightly more accurate color quantization is
basically all that's left to do.

Digital still cameras are not bound as strictly to maximum image size in
pixels, so one can make a trade-off between fewer pixels with higher color
accuracy than the human eye can see in normal output, or adding more
sensors/pixels that increase luminance resolution AND improves color
accuracy, at the expense of higher storage size, lower capture frequency and
higher cost. Increasing the number of sensors is the avenue chosen by most,
also because the Bayer CFA sensor fabrication process is very mature and
relatively low cost due to high yield.

Bart
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 5:47:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"Georgette Preddy" <georgette_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1067e702.0406300259.7f53c7ba@posting.google.com...
> "PTRAVEL" <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<2keaauF1gc8lU1@uni-berlin.de>...
>
> > A Foven-based camcorder might be an improvement, possibly even a
dramatic
> > improvement, over single-CCD camcorders, assuming the sensor was of
> > sufficient size. No Foveon-based camcorder will produce results
equivalent
> > to a good 3-CCD prosumer unit, e.g. VX2000, GL2 or XL1, absent
significant
> > improvements in the underlying technology.
>
> The new Foveon P&S due out soon is rumored to have better video
> quality than any consumer video device, and rivlas 3 chip pro designs.
> Not a bad deal for a $300 pocket P&S. It is also rumor to be able to
> capture full size 4.5MP still shots while it is shooting video.

Rumoured by you.
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 6:59:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"Georgette Preddy" <georgette_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1067e702.0406300259.7f53c7ba@posting.google.com...
SNIP
> The new Foveon P&S due out soon is rumored to have better video
> quality than any consumer video device, and rivlas 3 chip pro designs.
> Not a bad deal for a $300 pocket P&S. It is also rumor to be able to
> capture full size 4.5MP still shots while it is shooting video.

You are wrong, again, as usual.

It is a Polaroid P&S, and captures 1440 x 1080 pixels (1.56 MP):
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0406/04062102foveonf19.asp
This will, in addition to still images, produce video clip capture at VGA
(!) resolution.

Bart
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 7:28:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"Alfred Molon" <alfred_molon@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b4c7d5a15cbd6b598a6d9@news.supernews.com...
> PTRAVEL <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Actually, it wouldn't -- it's primary advantage would be size and weight.
> >3-chip video cameras offer exceptional color reproduction because
dichroic
> >prisms split the light into primary colors, each of which is directed to
a
> >monochrome sensor. The result is high color accuracy without
interpolation
> >or approximation, as well as excellent low-light performance, as there is
no
> >light loss involved, except that small amount attributable to the prism.
>
> As a side question: if full colour information in each pixel is not so
> important (as has been repeated again and again here), why do higher end
> camcorders use three CCDs and a prism to achieve it ?

"Full color information" is a meaningless phrase. All camcorder sensors
provide full color information. What varies is how they do it.

I've described, in this thread, why a Foveon chip-equipped camcorder will
not produce as good an image as a 3-ccd camcorder.


> --
>
> Alfred Molon
> ------------------------------
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Olympus_405080/
> Olympus 5050 resource - http://www.molon.de/5050.html
> Olympus 5060 resource - http://www.molon.de/5060.html
> Olympus 8080 resource - http://www.molon.de/8080.html
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 7:30:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"Georgette Preddy" <georgette_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1067e702.0406300259.7f53c7ba@posting.google.com...
> "PTRAVEL" <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<2keaauF1gc8lU1@uni-berlin.de>...
>
> > A Foven-based camcorder might be an improvement, possibly even a
dramatic
> > improvement, over single-CCD camcorders, assuming the sensor was of
> > sufficient size. No Foveon-based camcorder will produce results
equivalent
> > to a good 3-CCD prosumer unit, e.g. VX2000, GL2 or XL1, absent
significant
> > improvements in the underlying technology.
>
> The new Foveon P&S due out soon is rumored to have better video
> quality than any consumer video device,

Only by you, George. Calling a lie that you made up a "rumor" is exactly
the same as calling a Foveon p&s with video capability a "prosumer video
camera."

> and rivlas 3 chip pro designs.
> Not a bad deal for a $300 pocket P&S. It is also rumor to be able to
> capture full size 4.5MP still shots while it is shooting video.
June 30, 2004 8:10:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

Alfred Molon wrote:

> As a side question: if full colour information in each pixel is not so
> important (as has been repeated again and again here), why do higher end
> camcorders use three CCDs and a prism to achieve it ?

Perhaps because requirements for video are somewhat different than for
stills.

For example, my TV displays at 35dpi. That's utterly unacceptable for
a print but seems to work fine on the telly. In fact I've looked at big
expensive TVs in shops that are probably less than 20dpi and it's
surprising how close a viewing distance you can use before the lack of
resolution becomes intrusive. I can't explain why this should be, but
it suggests that something different is going on with motion pictures
than static ones, and assumptions about quality requirements made for
one should not be carried over to the other.

Alternatively it may just be a marketing phenomenon. Note that most
video delivery systems (including analog PAL,NTSC, digital MPEG-1,2)
have reduced chroma resolution.

- Len
June 30, 2004 8:49:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"Bart van der Wolf" <bvdwolf@no.spam> wrote in message
news:40e2b94c$0$42417$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>
> "Georgette Preddy" <georgette_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1067e702.0406300259.7f53c7ba@posting.google.com...
> SNIP
> > The new Foveon P&S due out soon is rumored to have better video
> > quality than any consumer video device, and rivlas 3 chip pro designs.
> > Not a bad deal for a $300 pocket P&S. It is also rumor to be able to
> > capture full size 4.5MP still shots while it is shooting video.
>
> You are wrong, again, as usual.
>
> It is a Polaroid P&S, and captures 1440 x 1080 pixels (1.56 MP):
> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0406/04062102foveonf19.asp
> This will, in addition to still images, produce video clip capture at VGA
> (!) resolution.
>
> Bart
>

Perhaps he's referring to this: http://www.foveon.com/press_x530.html

"Las Vegas, NV (February 11, 2004) - Foveon Inc., a technology leader in
high-quality digital image capture products, announced today that a new
Polaroid brand digital camera will incorporate the 4.5 megapixel Foveon X3
direct image sensor. The camera is the world's first point-and-shoot digital
camera to incorporate X3 technology. Foveon X3 direct image sensors are the
only image sensors that directly capture color in three layers, just like
color film. This results in richer colors, warmer tones, and sharper images
than are available through traditional image sensors."

Regards,

Hal Lowe
http://hals.vstoremarket.com (HaloweGraphics SuperStore)
http://www.halowe-graphics.com/tinc?key=0TmhZVQ5&formna...
http://www.halowe-graphics.com/music.html (free original MP3 background
audios)
http://1and1.com/?k_id=7391019 (Best website host/great prices)
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 9:46:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

In rec.photo.equipment.35mm Georgette Preddy <georgette_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "PTRAVEL" <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2keaauF1gc8lU1@uni-berlin.de>...
>
> > A Foven-based camcorder might be an improvement, possibly even a dramatic
> > improvement, over single-CCD camcorders, assuming the sensor was of
> > sufficient size. No Foveon-based camcorder will produce results equivalent
> > to a good 3-CCD prosumer unit, e.g. VX2000, GL2 or XL1, absent significant
> > improvements in the underlying technology.
>
> The new Foveon P&S due out soon is rumored to have better video
> quality than any consumer video device, and rivlas 3 chip pro designs.
> Not a bad deal for a $300 pocket P&S. It is also rumor to be able to
> capture full size 4.5MP still shots while it is shooting video.

must be the same source as that "rumour" of Moon being made of cheese

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++
June 30, 2004 10:59:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"Bart van der Wolf" <bvdwolf@no.spam> wrote in message
news:40e2f188$0$6968$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>
> "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote in message
> news:jaCEc.27890$Av3.21457@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
> SNIP
> > Perhaps he's referring to this: http://www.foveon.com/press_x530.html
> SNIP
>
> It's the same sensor used in the Polaroid
> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530....
> and it is 1440 x 1080 pixels.
>
> Bart
>

Hi Bart,

Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
indeed a 4.5MP. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530....
It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information (?).
So, I'm a bit confused.

I'm not finding the reference supporting your claim. Since I do _try_ to
follow these things closely, I'd appreciate your pointing out the specific
reference for me. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I really do want
to understand your point.

TIA,

Hal Lowe
http://hals.vstoremarket.com (HaloweGraphics SuperStore)
http://www.halowe-graphics.com/tinc?key=0TmhZVQ5&formna...
http://www.halowe-graphics.com/music.html (free original MP3 background
audios)
http://www.halowe-graphics.com/photo.html (free original video textures)
http://wc.halowe-graphics.com (college student & prof resources)
http://1and1.com/?k_id=7391019 (Best website host/great prices)
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 11:20:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

On 2004-06-30, Hal <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote:
> "Bart van der Wolf" <bvdwolf@no.spam> wrote in message
> news:40e2f188$0$6968$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>>
>> "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote in message
>> news:jaCEc.27890$Av3.21457@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
>>
>> It's the same sensor used in the Polaroid
>> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530....
>> and it is 1440 x 1080 pixels.

> Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
> indeed a 4.5MP. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530....
> It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information (?).
> So, I'm a bit confused.

The imaging sensor has 1440 x 1080 x 3 photosensors (i.e. the Foveon
3-layer stacked pixels.) Foveon thinks the JCIA guidelines allow them
to claim each photosensor as a "pixel". Others disagree.

The Polaroid camera will use software interpolation to produce a
maximum output size of 2460 x 1836 (i.e., 4.5M) pixels. Again, the
reasonableness of advertising this as a 4.5 megapixel camera is
controversial.

--
Erik
June 30, 2004 11:22:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"E. Magnuson" <edjpgcom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:TnEEc.2026$Bv.294295@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> On 2004-06-30, Hal <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote:
> > "Bart van der Wolf" <bvdwolf@no.spam> wrote in message
> > news:40e2f188$0$6968$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> >>
> >> "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote in message
> >> news:jaCEc.27890$Av3.21457@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
> >>
> >> It's the same sensor used in the Polaroid
> >> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530....
> >> and it is 1440 x 1080 pixels.
>
> > Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
> > indeed a 4.5MP.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530....
> > It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information
(?).
> > So, I'm a bit confused.
>
> The imaging sensor has 1440 x 1080 x 3 photosensors (i.e. the Foveon
> 3-layer stacked pixels.) Foveon thinks the JCIA guidelines allow them
> to claim each photosensor as a "pixel". Others disagree.
>
> The Polaroid camera will use software interpolation to produce a
> maximum output size of 2460 x 1836 (i.e., 4.5M) pixels. Again, the
> reasonableness of advertising this as a 4.5 megapixel camera is
> controversial.
>
> --
> Erik

Hi Erik,

Got it. Thanks. Then the original poster wasn't necessarily wrong, he was
just espousing a different point of view.

Thanks again for the clarification!

Hal Lowe
http://hals.vstoremarket.com (HaloweGraphics SuperStore)
http://www.halowe-graphics.com/tinc?key=0TmhZVQ5&formna...
http://www.halowe-graphics.com/photo.html (free original video textures &
MP3 background audio)
http://1and1.com/?k_id=7391019 (Best website host/great prices)
Anonymous
July 1, 2004 1:17:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:55:23 -0700, "PTRAVEL"
<ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Actually, it wouldn't -- it's primary advantage would be size and weight.
>3-chip video cameras offer exceptional color reproduction because dichroic
>prisms split the light into primary colors, each of which is directed to a
>monochrome sensor.

So, you are saying that companies like Panavision, Arri, Kinetta and
Thomson are wrong using a one-chip for their high-end e-Cine camera's?
Interesting :) 

cheers

-martin-

--
"Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak."
Anonymous
July 1, 2004 1:17:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

<mheffels@nessguy.com> wrote in message
news:hu75e09adolsc4lla2rai4d1ga8dmpm78r@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:55:23 -0700, "PTRAVEL"
> <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Actually, it wouldn't -- it's primary advantage would be size and weight.
> >3-chip video cameras offer exceptional color reproduction because
dichroic
> >prisms split the light into primary colors, each of which is directed to
a
> >monochrome sensor.
>
> So, you are saying that companies like Panavision, Arri, Kinetta and
> Thomson are wrong using a one-chip for their high-end e-Cine camera's?
> Interesting :) 

I wasn't aware either made digital cameras, nor have I heard of e-Cine.
Regardless, no prosumer-grade camera is single chip.

>
> cheers
>
> -martin-
>
> --
> "Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright
> until you hear them speak."
Anonymous
July 1, 2004 1:17:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"PTRAVEL" <ptravel@ruyitang.com> wrote in message
news:x1BEc.79562$i57.22940@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
>
> I wasn't aware either made digital cameras, nor have I heard of e-Cine.
> Regardless, no prosumer-grade camera is single chip.
>
I predict that single chip technology will eventually replace
3 chip technology, in much the same manner that a
single strip of color film has now pretty much replaced
using 3 separate strips of monochrome film when
capturing moving color images.

A single piece of film may not be the best way to
make a movie, but everybody is doing it these days :-)

David
Anonymous
July 1, 2004 2:06:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"print_maker" <print_maker@spamfesthotmail.com> wrote in message news:<uKqEc.1825$IQ4.254@attbi_s02>...
> please link to your sources... or otherwise you are just spouting rumors
>
> "Jorge Prediguez" <jorge@iamgr8.com> wrote in message
> news:D 38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com...
> > Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
> > guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
> > first video camera with this record breaking technology.

Here's one point for him (you have 0)...

http://www.hanvision.com/
Anonymous
July 1, 2004 3:58:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote in message
news:FoDEc.23207$Xn.13743@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
> "Bart van der Wolf" <bvdwolf@no.spam> wrote in message
> news:40e2f188$0$6968$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> >
> > "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote in message
> > news:jaCEc.27890$Av3.21457@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
> > SNIP
> > > Perhaps he's referring to this: http://www.foveon.com/press_x530.html
> > SNIP
> >
> > It's the same sensor used in the Polaroid
> > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530....
> > and it is 1440 x 1080 pixels.
> >
> > Bart
> >
>
> Hi Bart,
>
> Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
> indeed a 4.5MP. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530....
> It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information (?).
> So, I'm a bit confused.

That is exactly what Foveon intended, confusion.
It's a 1440 x 1080 pixel sensor array (RGB sensors).
The output can be interpolated, or not, or sensors can be binned, but it is
still a 1440 x1080 pixel sensor array.

Bart
July 1, 2004 3:58:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"Bart van der Wolf" <bvdwolf@no.spam> wrote in message
news:40e33772$0$34762$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>
> "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote in message
> news:FoDEc.23207$Xn.13743@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
> > "Bart van der Wolf" <bvdwolf@no.spam> wrote in message
> > news:40e2f188$0$6968$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> > >
> > > "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote in message
> > > news:jaCEc.27890$Av3.21457@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
> > > SNIP
> > > > Perhaps he's referring to this:
http://www.foveon.com/press_x530.html
> > > SNIP
> > >
> > > It's the same sensor used in the Polaroid
> > > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530....
> > > and it is 1440 x 1080 pixels.
> > >
> > > Bart
> > >
> >
> > Hi Bart,
> >
> > Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
> > indeed a 4.5MP.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530....
> > It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information
(?).
> > So, I'm a bit confused.
>
> That is exactly what Foveon intended, confusion.
> It's a 1440 x 1080 pixel sensor array (RGB sensors).
> The output can be interpolated, or not, or sensors can be binned, but it
is
> still a 1440 x1080 pixel sensor array.
>
> Bart
>

Hi Bart,

Ah, now I understand your point. Thanks.

Well, I guess we'll find out for sure how well it performs in short order,
regardless of how it's rated/classified.

Thanks again. :-)

Hal Lowe
http://hals.vstoremarket.com (HaloweGraphics SuperStore)
http://www.halowe-graphics.com/tinc?key=0TmhZVQ5&formna...
http://www.halowe-graphics.com/music.html (free original MP3 background
audios)
http://1and1.com/?k_id=7391019 (Best website host/great prices)
July 1, 2004 7:58:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

In article
<d38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com>,
jorge@iamgr8.com says...
> Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
> guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
> first video camera with this record breaking technology.
>

This guy is guy named:
George Preddy in disguise.
He causes all kinds of trouble and hypes up Sigma?
foveon

Look at his name: Jorge = George
Preddy in disguise

Search George Preddy under digital photo forums for
more details



--
www.fiveminutesoffame.com
Get your five minutes of FAME
Anonymous
July 1, 2004 7:58:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"Five" <Niko@fiveminutesof____.com> wrote in message
news:D ZLEc.8054$a24.1232@attbi_s03...
> In article
> <d38ab2c0.0406291423.186a8dae@posting.google.com>,
> jorge@iamgr8.com says...
> > Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
> > guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
> > first video camera with this record breaking technology.
> >
>
> This guy is guy named:
> George Preddy in disguise.
> He causes all kinds of trouble and hypes up Sigma?
> foveon
>
> Look at his name: Jorge = George
> Preddy in disguise
>
> Search George Preddy under digital photo forums for
> more details

Assuming you actually give a fat flying rip.
July 1, 2004 8:04:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

In article
<1067e702.0406300259.7f53c7ba@posting.google.com>,
georgette_preddy@yahoo.com says...
> "PTRAVEL" <ptravel88-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2keaauF1gc8lU1@uni-berlin.de>...
>
> > A Foven-based camcorder might be an improvement, possibly even a dramatic
> > improvement, over single-CCD camcorders, assuming the sensor was of
> > sufficient size. No Foveon-based camcorder will produce results equivalent
> > to a good 3-CCD prosumer unit, e.g. VX2000, GL2 or XL1, absent significant
> > improvements in the underlying technology.
>
> The new Foveon P&S due out soon is rumored to have better video
> quality than any consumer video device, and rivlas 3 chip pro designs.
> Not a bad deal for a $300 pocket P&S. It is also rumor to be able to
> capture full size 4.5MP still shots while it is shooting video.
>

troll.....search george preddy


--
www.fiveminutesoffame.com
Get your five minutes of FAME
Anonymous
July 1, 2004 2:52:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:31:41 GMT, "PTRAVEL" <ptravel@ruyitang.com>
wrote:

>> So, you are saying that companies like Panavision, Arri, Kinetta and
>> Thomson are wrong using a one-chip for their high-end e-Cine camera's?
>> Interesting :) 
>
>I wasn't aware either made digital cameras, nor have I heard of e-Cine.

e-Cine is the modern name for electronic image aquisition for cinema.

http://www.kinetta.com/home.php
http://www.dalsa.com/dc/dc.asp
http://www.dalsa.com/dc/documents/Image_Sensor_Architec...
http://www.arri.com/news/newsletter/articles/09211103/d...

And sorry, but my memory failed me. The Thomson Viper is 3-CCD

>Regardless, no prosumer-grade camera is single chip.

Regardless, the days of 3-chippers are numbered :) 

cheers

-martin-

--
"Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak."
Anonymous
July 1, 2004 2:52:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

<mheffels@nessguy.com> wrote in message
news:h4m6e0p4bopm1ftaq3icdnskab1amne7fp@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:31:41 GMT, "PTRAVEL" <ptravel@ruyitang.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> So, you are saying that companies like Panavision, Arri, Kinetta and
> >> Thomson are wrong using a one-chip for their high-end e-Cine camera's?
> >> Interesting :) 
> >
> >I wasn't aware either made digital cameras, nor have I heard of e-Cine.
>
> e-Cine is the modern name for electronic image aquisition for cinema.

I didn't know that. Thanks.

>
> http://www.kinetta.com/home.php
> http://www.dalsa.com/dc/dc.asp
>
http://www.dalsa.com/dc/documents/Image_Sensor_Architec...
> http://www.arri.com/news/newsletter/articles/09211103/d...
>
> And sorry, but my memory failed me. The Thomson Viper is 3-CCD

How about the others?

>
> >Regardless, no prosumer-grade camera is single chip.
>
> Regardless, the days of 3-chippers are numbered :) 

Well, sure, but this amateur Foveon camera touted by George Preddy hasn't
started the count.

>
> cheers
>
> -martin-
>
> --
> "Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright
> until you hear them speak."
Anonymous
July 1, 2004 11:38:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 05:38:13 GMT, "PTRAVEL" <ptravel@ruyitang.com>
wrote:

>I didn't know that. Thanks.

yw

>How about the others?

They are 1-chippers with Bayer-filtering. Most manufacturers in the
serious digital cinematography, are using designs based on 1-chip.
Apparently one of the main problems was Bayer-filter induced
artifacts, which can be taken out by a dose of maths, but required
more horsepower for moving images. This seems to have been solved.
I would say that if 3-CCD's were the way to go, purists like
cinematographers, would never embrace 1-chip designs, and they are
all raving and drooling with the latest offerings.

>Well, sure, but this amateur Foveon camera touted by George Preddy hasn't
>started the count.

Probably not. But it probably won't take long for these technologies
to trickle down to the pro-sumer market. For home-use I don't really
see this happen in this decade.

cheers

-martin-
Anonymous
July 4, 2004 7:43:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

In message <s0659aat99.fsf@diesel.graphics.cornell.edu>,
westin*nospam@graphics.cornell.edu (Stephen H. Westin) wrote:

>jorge@iamgr8.com (Jorge Prediguez) writes:
>
>> Foveon is working on a new sensor for video cameras. This will
>> guarantee the best video quality ever. Sigma will be releasing the
>> first video camera with this record breaking technology.
>
>They don't need a new sensor. <http://www.foveon.com/faq_oem.html&gt;
>question 4: "Can Foveon X3 direct image sensors be used for video?".
>
>This won't be "the best video quality ever", though it would offer
>much of the advantage of a 3-chip camera in a much cheaper package.

The Hue noise inherent in the Foveon sensors is not fine, but rather,
blotchy, and doesn't disappear upon downsizing 4.3MP to 0.3MP.
--

<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
Anonymous
July 4, 2004 7:56:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

In message <FoDEc.23207$Xn.13743@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>,
"Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote:

>Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
>indeed a 4.5MP. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530....
>It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information (?).
>So, I'm a bit confused.
>
>I'm not finding the reference supporting your claim. Since I do _try_ to
>follow these things closely, I'd appreciate your pointing out the specific
>reference for me. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I really do want
>to understand your point.

Foveon is trying to hype their products by tripling the number of actual
pixels in their marketing language. What they call a 4.5MP sensor is
actually a 1.5MP sensor that detects three color bands at each pixel.
--

<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
Anonymous
July 4, 2004 7:56:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

That is the hype the way I understood it also. This sounds like the
advertising of scam artists and theives.

<JPS@no.komm> wrote in message
news:7v9ge01be7s345a83tg50g0699hqkchuh8@4ax.com...
> In message <FoDEc.23207$Xn.13743@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>,
> "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote:
>
> >Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
> >indeed a 4.5MP.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530....
> >It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information
(?).
> >So, I'm a bit confused.
> >
> >I'm not finding the reference supporting your claim. Since I do _try_ to
> >follow these things closely, I'd appreciate your pointing out the
specific
> >reference for me. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I really do
want
> >to understand your point.
>
> Foveon is trying to hype their products by tripling the number of actual
> pixels in their marketing language. What they call a 4.5MP sensor is
> actually a 1.5MP sensor that detects three color bands at each pixel.
> --
>
> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
> John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm>
> ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
Anonymous
July 4, 2004 9:51:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

In message <0radnSVI5KVVpXXdRVn-jg@golden.net>,
"Gymmy Bob" <nospamming@bite.me> wrote:

>That is the hype the way I understood it also. This sounds like the
>advertising of scam artists and theives.

It's nothing but connotative bait-and-switch.

Change the meaning of pixel so that it has nothing to do with with
spatial resolution anymore, say you have more pixels, hoping that the
reader thinks it means more spatial resolution. Truly Pathetic.
--

<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
Anonymous
July 5, 2004 5:40:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"George Preddy" <george_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e61e09e9.0407050309.44fc873d@posting.google.com...
> JPS@no.komm wrote in message
news:<7v9ge01be7s345a83tg50g0699hqkchuh8@4ax.com>...
SNIP
> > Foveon is trying to hype their products by tripling the number
> > of actual pixels in their marketing language. What they call a
> > 4.5MP sensor is actually a 1.5MP sensor that detects three
> > color bands at each pixel.
>
> As opposed to other manufacturers calling sensing 1 color band,
> sensing a full color pixel.

You are wrong again, as usual.

Other manufacturers don't say they sense full color per sensel. All they say
is that they output an RGB pixel, regardless of the filters used.

Bart
Anonymous
July 5, 2004 5:41:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"George Preddy" <george_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e61e09e9.0407050309.39548949@posting.google.com...
SNIP
> As opposed to other manufacturers...

Double posting only makes you double wrong.

Bart
Anonymous
July 5, 2004 7:18:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

In message <e61e09e9.0407050309.44fc873d@posting.google.com>,
george_preddy@yahoo.com (George Preddy) wrote:

>JPS@no.komm wrote in message news:<7v9ge01be7s345a83tg50g0699hqkchuh8@4ax.com>...
>> In message <FoDEc.23207$Xn.13743@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>,
>> "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote:

>> >Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
>> >indeed a 4.5MP. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530....
>> >It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information (?).
>> >So, I'm a bit confused.

>> >I'm not finding the reference supporting your claim. Since I do _try_ to
>> >follow these things closely, I'd appreciate your pointing out the specific
>> >reference for me. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I really do want
>> >to understand your point.

>> Foveon is trying to hype their products by tripling the number of actual
>> pixels in their marketing language. What they call a 4.5MP sensor is
>> actually a 1.5MP sensor that detects three color bands at each pixel.

>As opposed to other manufacturers calling sensing 1 color band,
>sensing a full color pixel.

I haven't seen a single manufacturer claim that full color is sensed at
each Bayer pixel.

>The Foveon 5M (thier P&S sensor) is a 6MP chip, not 4.5MP. It outputs
>6M pixels (3000 x 2000) from 1.5M complete RGB triples, which is
>exactly the same as the Canon 10D but with DRAMATICALLY lower noise
>and increased DR.

No, it's not exactly the same at all, and only an ignorant person would
think so, and only a moron would continue to say so after being proven
wrong so many times. There is absolutely no basis for the existence of
3/4 of the pixels when you interpolate foveon output to 4x as many
pixels. The "native resolution" of the Bayer cameras is the number of
sensors.

>Foveon continues to be ridiculously conservative in their MPs rating
>compared to Bayer manufactures who often list 800% interpolatively
>upscaled images as the actual MP count (Fuji)!!

No, they don't; they continue to lie as they exaggerate their pixel
count by 3x, and you continue to lie as you exaggerate by 4x.
--

<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
Anonymous
July 5, 2004 11:01:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

My 1 megapixel fuji doesn't have the noise in low light either. Oh yeah.
Either does my 2 megapixel fuji.


"George Preddy" <george_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e61e09e9.0407050309.39548949@posting.google.com...
> JPS@no.komm wrote in message
news:<7v9ge01be7s345a83tg50g0699hqkchuh8@4ax.com>...
> > In message <FoDEc.23207$Xn.13743@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>,
> > "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it
is
> > >indeed a 4.5MP.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530....
> > >It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information
(?).
> > >So, I'm a bit confused.
> > >
> > >I'm not finding the reference supporting your claim. Since I do _try_
to
> > >follow these things closely, I'd appreciate your pointing out the
specific
> > >reference for me. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I really do
want
> > >to understand your point.
> >
> > Foveon is trying to hype their products by tripling the number of actual
> > pixels in their marketing language. What they call a 4.5MP sensor is
> > actually a 1.5MP sensor that detects three color bands at each pixel.
>
> As opposed to other manufacturers calling sensing 1 color band,
> sensing a full color pixel.
>
> The Foveon 5M (thier P&S sensor) is a 6MP chip, not 4.5MP. It outputs
> 6M pixels (3000 x 2000) from 1.5M complete RGB triples, which is
> exactly the same as the Canon 10D but with DRAMATICALLY lower noise
> and increased DR.
>
> Foveon continues to be ridiculously conservative in their MPs rating
> compared to Bayer manufactures who often list 800% interpolatively
> upscaled images as the actual MP count (Fuji)!!
Anonymous
July 5, 2004 11:34:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

In rec.photo.equipment.35mm George Preddy <george_preddy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> JPS@no.komm wrote in message news:<7v9ge01be7s345a83tg50g0699hqkchuh8@4ax.com>...
> > In message <FoDEc.23207$Xn.13743@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>,
> > "Hal" <see_post_for_address@post.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Well, the article that you're included in your post indicates that it is
> > >indeed a 4.5MP. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020909polaroidx530....
> > >It even refers back to the article that I posted for more information (?).
> > >So, I'm a bit confused.
> > >
> > >I'm not finding the reference supporting your claim. Since I do _try_ to
> > >follow these things closely, I'd appreciate your pointing out the specific
> > >reference for me. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I really do want
> > >to understand your point.
> >
> > Foveon is trying to hype their products by tripling the number of actual
> > pixels in their marketing language. What they call a 4.5MP sensor is
> > actually a 1.5MP sensor that detects three color bands at each pixel.
>
> As opposed to other manufacturers calling sensing 1 color band,
> sensing a full color pixel.

Care to name any camera maufcaturer doing that with their SLR cameras?

>
> The Foveon 5M (thier P&S sensor) is a 6MP chip, not 4.5MP. It outputs
> 6M pixels (3000 x 2000) from 1.5M complete RGB triples, which is
> exactly the same as the Canon 10D but with DRAMATICALLY lower noise
> and increased DR.

1.5 M complete RGB triplets are 1.5 megapixels - not 3 and certainly not
6 megapixels.

>
> Foveon continues to be ridiculously conservative in their MPs rating
> compared to Bayer manufactures who often list 800% interpolatively
> upscaled images as the actual MP count (Fuji)!!

Not only bullshit but also completely off-topic (this group is about
35mm film equipment) bullshit.

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++
Anonymous
July 5, 2004 11:34:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 19:34:02 +0000 (UTC), Sander Vesik
<sander@haldjas.folklore.ee> wrote:

>Not only bullshit but also completely off-topic (this group is about
>35mm film equipment) bullshit.

Actually, this went to all these newsgroups:
rec.video.desktop,rec.photo.digital,aus.photo,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.comp.periphs.dcameras
I'm sure you can get your reader to tell you this.

Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
!