Field Order- Is Ulead incorrect??

Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,alt.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.tech (More info?)

As I am awaer of field order is defined as DV is Bottom Field First and
Analogue (TV/VCR) is Top Field First.

I am aware that Ulead confuses the issue in that it names then as A or B,
which is opposite to some other apps, but as I see it this is just a naming
convention issue.

On Uleads site it states that field order is dependent on whether the source
is PAL or NTSC.
http://www.ulead.com/tech/dmf/dmffaq.htm

Q: I have captured a video, but it appears jerky, or it flickers. What
do I do?
A: Before you start capturing, you may need to configure the Field
order settings. Depending on your system, you might have to change the Field
order setting according to your video record and output format. The field
order for PAL video is normally A, and for NTSC it is B, but this can vary
according to your capture device. If the field order that you have selected
causes your video to flicker in playback, change it to the other option. Do
a test with a short video clip with a lot of camera pans and movement.


Surel;y this is incorrect, as isnt it whether the source is Digital Video or
Analogue video, and irrelevant whether it is PAL or NTSC?


Comments anyone and everyone?

Regards

Tony
10 answers Last reply
More about field order ulead incorrect
  1. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,alt.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.tech (More info?)

    "Tony" <tdale@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:a6vFc.6674$LT3.261677@news.xtra.co.nz...
    > As I am awaer of field order is defined as DV is Bottom Field First and
    > Analogue (TV/VCR) is Top Field First.
    >
    > I am aware that Ulead confuses the issue in that it names then as A or B,
    > which is opposite to some other apps, but as I see it this is just a naming
    > convention issue.
    >
    > On Uleads site it states that field order is dependent on whether the source
    > is PAL or NTSC.
    > http://www.ulead.com/tech/dmf/dmffaq.htm
    >
    > Q: I have captured a video, but it appears jerky, or it flickers. What
    > do I do?
    > A: Before you start capturing, you may need to configure the Field
    > order settings. Depending on your system, you might have to change the Field
    > order setting according to your video record and output format. The field
    > order for PAL video is normally A, and for NTSC it is B, but this can vary
    > according to your capture device. If the field order that you have selected
    > causes your video to flicker in playback, change it to the other option. Do
    > a test with a short video clip with a lot of camera pans and movement.
    >
    >
    >
    > Surel;y this is incorrect, as isnt it whether the source is Digital Video or
    > Analogue video, and irrelevant whether it is PAL or NTSC?

    The situation is more complex than either your, or Ulead's, simple explanation
    captures. I can't go into it in detail, but I will tell you that considering just the analog
    signal sent to the TV, the field order is different for PAL and NTSC. That is defined
    by specifications for analog transmission. But DV is not an analog transmission
    format so it need not adhere to those specs. It has its own spec, which is bottom
    field first.

    Don
  2. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,alt.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.tech (More info?)

    "Donald Graft" <abc@xyz.com> wrote in message
    news:XhxFc.16395$MB3.8544@attbi_s04...
    > "Tony" <tdale@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
    news:a6vFc.6674$LT3.261677@news.xtra.co.nz...
    > > As I am awaer of field order is defined as DV is Bottom Field First and
    > > Analogue (TV/VCR) is Top Field First.
    > >
    > > I am aware that Ulead confuses the issue in that it names then as A or
    B,
    > > which is opposite to some other apps, but as I see it this is just a
    naming
    > > convention issue.
    > >
    > > On Uleads site it states that field order is dependent on whether the
    source
    > > is PAL or NTSC.
    > > http://www.ulead.com/tech/dmf/dmffaq.htm
    > >
    > > Q: I have captured a video, but it appears jerky, or it flickers.
    What
    > > do I do?
    > > A: Before you start capturing, you may need to configure the Field
    > > order settings. Depending on your system, you might have to change the
    Field
    > > order setting according to your video record and output format. The
    field
    > > order for PAL video is normally A, and for NTSC it is B, but this can
    vary
    > > according to your capture device. If the field order that you have
    selected
    > > causes your video to flicker in playback, change it to the other option.
    Do
    > > a test with a short video clip with a lot of camera pans and movement.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Surel;y this is incorrect, as isnt it whether the source is Digital
    Video or
    > > Analogue video, and irrelevant whether it is PAL or NTSC?
    >
    > The situation is more complex than either your, or Ulead's, simple
    explanation
    > captures. I can't go into it in detail, but I will tell you that
    considering just the analog
    > signal sent to the TV, the field order is different for PAL and NTSC. That
    is defined
    > by specifications for analog transmission. But DV is not an analog
    transmission
    > format so it need not adhere to those specs. It has its own spec, which is
    bottom
    > field first.
    >
    > Don

    The correct answer is "this can vary according to your capture device". It
    doesn't matter what the spec is, it doesn't matter what the video format is,
    it ONLY matters how your particular capture device writes files to your hard
    drive. Full stop. The field order is a function of the capture hardware,
    its drivers, and the software you use.

    If your field order is set wrong, it will be obvious when you watch your
    final result on a TV. In which case change it and you are done, and you now
    know the correct field order for your device.

    If the field order is right, there will be no issue with your final product,
    and again you are done, and you now know the field order of your particular
    device.
  3. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    Donald Graft wrote:

    > The situation is more complex than either your, or Ulead's, simple explanation
    > captures. I can't go into it in detail, but I will tell you that considering just the analog
    > signal sent to the TV, the field order is different for PAL and NTSC. That is defined
    > by specifications for analog transmission. But DV is not an analog transmission
    > format so it need not adhere to those specs. It has its own spec, which is bottom
    > field first.

    I think the main thing is to do the experiment. The answer is either one
    or the other. I don't know whether A or B corresponds to lower field
    first, but I just had a project where it made a BIG difference. I was
    outputting the result of a Cool 3D animation. At first I did it
    frame-based, because I was led to believe that was faultless. The
    animation flickered. So I did two more attempts, one with what they call
    Field order A, and the other with Field order B. The Field order A was
    the correct, smooth one, for reasons I do not know or care about, as
    long as I now know which one to choose next time.

    Gary Eickmeier
  4. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,alt.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.tech (More info?)

    "Donald Graft" <abc@xyz.com> wrote:

    >"Tony" <tdale@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:a6vFc.6674$LT3.261677@news.xtra.co.nz...
    >> As I am awaer of field order is defined as DV is Bottom Field First and
    >> Analogue (TV/VCR) is Top Field First.
    >>
    >> I am aware that Ulead confuses the issue in that it names then as A or B,
    >> which is opposite to some other apps, but as I see it this is just a naming
    >> convention issue.
    >>
    >> On Uleads site it states that field order is dependent on whether the source
    >> is PAL or NTSC.
    >> http://www.ulead.com/tech/dmf/dmffaq.htm
    >>
    >> Q: I have captured a video, but it appears jerky, or it flickers. What
    >> do I do?
    >> A: Before you start capturing, you may need to configure the Field
    >> order settings. Depending on your system, you might have to change the Field
    >> order setting according to your video record and output format. The field
    >> order for PAL video is normally A, and for NTSC it is B, but this can vary
    >> according to your capture device. If the field order that you have selected
    >> causes your video to flicker in playback, change it to the other option. Do
    >> a test with a short video clip with a lot of camera pans and movement.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Surel;y this is incorrect, as isnt it whether the source is Digital Video or
    >> Analogue video, and irrelevant whether it is PAL or NTSC?
    >
    >The situation is more complex than either your, or Ulead's, simple explanation
    >captures. I can't go into it in detail, but I will tell you that considering just the analog
    >signal sent to the TV, the field order is different for PAL and NTSC. That is defined
    >by specifications for analog transmission. But DV is not an analog transmission
    >format so it need not adhere to those specs. It has its own spec, which is bottom
    >field first.
    >
    >Don
    >
    >
    Bottom field = field A ??
  5. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,alt.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.tech (More info?)

    Thanks for these comments, very clear now. I shall document any scenarios I
    have for capture (and also my GF who lives in the US)

    To clarify one point, can I check by watching the capture on the PC or does
    it have to be on the TV?
    If it needs to be on the TV, can this be checked by wathcing the capture by
    TV Out or does it need to be authored?

    Thanks a lot for this

    Cheers
    Tony
    New Zealand

    Im your PAL!


    "Tony" <tdale@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
    news:a6vFc.6674$LT3.261677@news.xtra.co.nz...
    > As I am awaer of field order is defined as DV is Bottom Field First and
    > Analogue (TV/VCR) is Top Field First.
    >
    > I am aware that Ulead confuses the issue in that it names then as A or B,
    > which is opposite to some other apps, but as I see it this is just a
    > naming convention issue.
    >
    > On Uleads site it states that field order is dependent on whether the
    > source is PAL or NTSC.
    > http://www.ulead.com/tech/dmf/dmffaq.htm
    >
    > Q: I have captured a video, but it appears jerky, or it flickers.
    > What do I do?
    > A: Before you start capturing, you may need to configure the Field
    > order settings. Depending on your system, you might have to change the
    > Field order setting according to your video record and output format. The
    > field order for PAL video is normally A, and for NTSC it is B, but this
    > can vary according to your capture device. If the field order that you
    > have selected causes your video to flicker in playback, change it to the
    > other option. Do a test with a short video clip with a lot of camera pans
    > and movement.
    >
    >
    >
    > Surel;y this is incorrect, as isnt it whether the source is Digital Video
    > or Analogue video, and irrelevant whether it is PAL or NTSC?
    >
    >
    > Comments anyone and everyone?
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Tony
    >
    >
    >
    >
  6. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    Tony wrote:

    > Thanks for these comments, very clear now. I shall document any scenarios I
    > have for capture (and also my GF who lives in the US)
    >
    > To clarify one point, can I check by watching the capture on the PC or does
    > it have to be on the TV?

    On the TV.

    > If it needs to be on the TV, can this be checked by wathcing the capture by
    > TV Out or does it need to be authored?
    >
    > Thanks a lot for this

    I think once it's captured, you can play it back from the timeline onto
    your TV monitor and see if it is correct.

    Gary Eickmeier
  7. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,alt.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.tech (More info?)

    > Bottom field = field A ??

    Yes. My analogue capture card requires that I choose Upper Field First in
    most software but in Ulead products I have to choose Field Order B for it to
    look right.
  8. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,alt.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.tech (More info?)

    It HAS to be on a TV. PC monitors don't use fields, they display the whole
    frame at once and are called "non-interlaced". meaning each frame is scanned
    from top-to-bottom, left-to-right-at a speed specified by the horizontal
    refresh rate.

    A television, on the other hand, scans every other line, every 1/60 of a
    second - so first the odd lines are scanned, then 1/60th of a second later,
    the even numbered lines are scanned, in reality, you see a full frame every
    1/30th of a second, hence the 30FPS standard in NTSC (Actually 29.97 is the
    true frame rate). I don't know about PAL, but imagine it works on a similar
    basis, with a slower 25FPS rate.

    This is why you must really watch the video on a television. For PC use, I
    don't think it matters which filed order you choose as the whole frame is
    scanned at once. I believe it must be authored then watched on a TV, not
    played on a PC connected to a television (I could be wrong, though)


    "Tony" <tdale@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
    news:ZYEFc.6766$LT3.266260@news.xtra.co.nz...
    > Thanks for these comments, very clear now. I shall document any scenarios
    I
    > have for capture (and also my GF who lives in the US)
    >
    > To clarify one point, can I check by watching the capture on the PC or
    does
    > it have to be on the TV?
    > If it needs to be on the TV, can this be checked by wathcing the capture
    by
    > TV Out or does it need to be authored?
    >
    > Thanks a lot for this
    >
    > Cheers
    > Tony
    > New Zealand
    >
    > Im your PAL!
    >
    >
    >
    > "Tony" <tdale@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
    > news:a6vFc.6674$LT3.261677@news.xtra.co.nz...
    > > As I am awaer of field order is defined as DV is Bottom Field First and
    > > Analogue (TV/VCR) is Top Field First.
    > >
    > > I am aware that Ulead confuses the issue in that it names then as A or
    B,
    > > which is opposite to some other apps, but as I see it this is just a
    > > naming convention issue.
    > >
    > > On Uleads site it states that field order is dependent on whether the
    > > source is PAL or NTSC.
    > > http://www.ulead.com/tech/dmf/dmffaq.htm
    > >
    > > Q: I have captured a video, but it appears jerky, or it flickers.
    > > What do I do?
    > > A: Before you start capturing, you may need to configure the Field
    > > order settings. Depending on your system, you might have to change the
    > > Field order setting according to your video record and output format.
    The
    > > field order for PAL video is normally A, and for NTSC it is B, but this
    > > can vary according to your capture device. If the field order that you
    > > have selected causes your video to flicker in playback, change it to the
    > > other option. Do a test with a short video clip with a lot of camera
    pans
    > > and movement.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Surel;y this is incorrect, as isnt it whether the source is Digital
    Video
    > > or Analogue video, and irrelevant whether it is PAL or NTSC?
    > >
    > >
    > > Comments anyone and everyone?
    > >
    > > Regards
    > >
    > > Tony
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
  9. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 16:33:17 -0400, "Guess Who"
    <chippe01@REMOVETHIShotmail.com> wrote:

    >It HAS to be on a TV. PC monitors don't use fields, they display the whole
    >frame at once and are called "non-interlaced".

    Right, and you can go through all the painful process of encoding,
    authoring and watching the TV to find out if you are using the right
    field order or not. But fortunately you can also find it out in the
    monitor by separating the fields. There's a VirtualDub filter,
    "UnviewFields", that lets you see Field A on top of Field B. By
    watching the OutputVideo display, you can discern the right field
    order. It takes less work than going all the way to the TV.
  10. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 11:29:19 +0200, Bariloche
    <bariloche@bariloche.com> wrote:

    >There's a VirtualDub filter,
    >"UnviewFields"

    Sorry, it is "ViewFields" -unview reunites them again.
Ask a new question

Read More

Tuner Cards DVD Video Ulead Graphics