Why ULead Still Need to Render a Video That is Already in ..

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I am using ULead Video Studio 7.0 SE to edit out unwanted video frames
from one MPEG-2 file. When I am done with editing and try to create
the final video file in the same attributes as the original MPEG-2
file, I am surprised that ULead still needs to render the video.
Should ULead simply stitches the video clips together without further
rendering? Do I understand this incorrectly?

You know rendering takes a long time, and I am trying to get away from
doing this.

When I captured the video initially, I used the hardware encoder in
PVR-250 TV-tuner card to capture the video into MPEG-2, and that was
fast. But I don't know how to take advantage of the hardware encoder
in PVR-250 after the video has already in the PC. Therefore, I will
have to rely on ULead to create a MPEG-2 file for the edited video.

Thanks.

Jay Chan
 

Stephen

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On 11 Jul 2004 14:08:52 -0700, jaykchan@hotmail.com (Jay Chan)
tortured a bunch of electrons for some unknown reason:

>I am using ULead Video Studio 7.0 SE to edit out unwanted video frames
>from one MPEG-2 file. When I am done with editing and try to create
>the final video file in the same attributes as the original MPEG-2
>file, I am surprised that ULead still needs to render the video.
>Should ULead simply stitches the video clips together without further
>rendering? Do I understand this incorrectly?
>
>You know rendering takes a long time, and I am trying to get away from
>doing this.
>
>When I captured the video initially, I used the hardware encoder in
>PVR-250 TV-tuner card to capture the video into MPEG-2, and that was
>fast. But I don't know how to take advantage of the hardware encoder
>in PVR-250 after the video has already in the PC. Therefore, I will
>have to rely on ULead to create a MPEG-2 file for the edited video.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Jay Chan

Your settings in MSP for mpeg2 don't match what the mpeg2 file has, so
MSP will re-encode or you have smart render turned off.

Stephen


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Thanks for responding.

> Your settings in MSP for mpeg2 don't match what the mpeg2 file has, so
> MSP will re-encode ...

What's MSP?

Here, I assume that MSP means a project in Ulead Video Studio. I have
checked the properties of the MPEG-2 file and match the project
properties to the MPEG-2 file. But Ulead still render the output video
file.

One thing strange is that:
I use "Fair" setting in Beyond-TV to capture the video and encode
it into MPEG-2 file. The "Fair" setting is supposed to be something
like 3??x240. But Ulead says that the MPEG-2 file is 352x480. Anyway,
I try both resolutions; neither make any difference; Ulead still
insists on rendering anyway.

> or you have smart render turned off.

I have tried turning this off and on. But neither make any difference.

Does this have something to do with the fact that I am using an SE
version that is bundled with a Firewire card instead of a retail boxed
version?

Jay Chan
 
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In article <c7e5acb2.0407111308.60a2f73@posting.google.com>,
jaykchan@hotmail.com says...
> I am using ULead Video Studio 7.0 SE to edit out unwanted video frames
> from one MPEG-2 file. When I am done with editing and try to create
> the final video file in the same attributes as the original MPEG-2
> file, I am surprised that ULead still needs to render the video.
> Should ULead simply stitches the video clips together without further
> rendering? Do I understand this incorrectly?
>
> You know rendering takes a long time, and I am trying to get away from
> doing this.
>
> When I captured the video initially, I used the hardware encoder in
> PVR-250 TV-tuner card to capture the video into MPEG-2, and that was
> fast. But I don't know how to take advantage of the hardware encoder
> in PVR-250 after the video has already in the PC. Therefore, I will
> have to rely on ULead to create a MPEG-2 file for the edited video.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jay Chan
>

Womble MPEG VCR that came with the card is much better for this task. I
never found a way to get Ulead to edit Mpegs and not wreck them comping
out the other end.
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On 11 Jul 2004 14:08:52 -0700, jaykchan@hotmail.com (Jay Chan) wrote:

>When I captured the video initially, I used the hardware encoder in
>PVR-250 TV-tuner card to capture the video into MPEG-2, and that was
>fast. But I don't know how to take advantage of the hardware encoder
>in PVR-250 after the video has already in the PC.

Probably there's no way to attain that, because the chip may not
accept the raw digital video input you would supply it.

As for the editing, use mpeg-vcr as Chris Phillipo sugests.
 
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> >When I captured the video initially, I used the hardware encoder in
> >PVR-250 TV-tuner card to capture the video into MPEG-2, and that was
> >fast. But I don't know how to take advantage of the hardware encoder
> >in PVR-250 after the video has already in the PC.
>
> Probably there's no way to attain that, because the chip may not
> accept the raw digital video input you would supply it.

OK, seem like I will have to use the PVR-250 encoder card straightly
as a TV tuner card.

> As for the editing, use mpeg-vcr as Chris Phillipo sugests.

I will look around to see what mpeg-vcr is.

Thanks.

Jay Chan
 
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In article <c7e5acb2.0407140833.74ddc855@posting.google.com>,
jaykchan@hotmail.com says...
> Subject: Re: Why ULead Still Need to Render a Video That is Already in MPEG-2?
> From: jaykchan@hotmail.com (Jay Chan)
> Newsgroups: rec.video.desktop
>
> > >When I captured the video initially, I used the hardware encoder in
> > >PVR-250 TV-tuner card to capture the video into MPEG-2, and that was
> > >fast. But I don't know how to take advantage of the hardware encoder
> > >in PVR-250 after the video has already in the PC.
> >
> > Probably there's no way to attain that, because the chip may not
> > accept the raw digital video input you would supply it.
>
> OK, seem like I will have to use the PVR-250 encoder card straightly
> as a TV tuner card.
>
> > As for the editing, use mpeg-vcr as Chris Phillipo sugests.
>
> I will look around to see what mpeg-vcr is.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jay Chan
>
>

It comes with the card or you can download it off the Hauppage web site.
--
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Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com
 
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I am quite sure that the problem is with Ulead.

I use a Cut-Only video editor from Hauppauge that is specifically
designed for their PVR-250 card. That editor has no problem merging a
short video clip that I made from Ulead with a long video file; it
does this without re-encoding the MPEG video. This means the project
setting in Ulead for the MPEG file match exactly with the MPEG file.
This means this is not an issue with wrong video project setting.

I have a feeling that the Smart Render feature in Ulead may have been
disabled in this "free" version that is bundled with my FireWire/USB-2
card. The full retail version may have this feature enabled.

Jay Chan
 
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Aren't there different flavors of MPEG 2 with only one of them meeting the
DVD forums standards? This is the problem, depending on codec an AVI file
isn't always a standards compliant file and MPEG 2 isn't always and
standards compliant MPEG 2. They may play on the computer fine, but when
going to DVD or VCD these different flavors have to be dealt with or your
DVD player won't handle them, they only have one or two standard formats
installed in them.

John


"Jay Chan" <jaykchan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c7e5acb2.0408021254.18d50716@posting.google.com...
> I am quite sure that the problem is with Ulead.
>
> I use a Cut-Only video editor from Hauppauge that is specifically
> designed for their PVR-250 card. That editor has no problem merging a
> short video clip that I made from Ulead with a long video file; it
> does this without re-encoding the MPEG video. This means the project
> setting in Ulead for the MPEG file match exactly with the MPEG file.
> This means this is not an issue with wrong video project setting.
>
> I have a feeling that the Smart Render feature in Ulead may have been
> disabled in this "free" version that is bundled with my FireWire/USB-2
> card. The full retail version may have this feature enabled.
>
> Jay Chan
 
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> Aren't there different flavors of MPEG 2 with only one of them meeting the
> DVD forums standards? This is the problem, depending on codec an AVI file
> isn't always a standards compliant file and MPEG 2 isn't always and
> standards compliant MPEG 2. They may play on the computer fine, but when
> going to DVD or VCD these different flavors have to be dealt with or your
> DVD player won't handle them, they only have one or two standard formats
> installed in them.

If I understand yours correctly, you are saying that the Cut-Only
video editor may be able to generate a MPEG file; but that file may
not be DVD-compatible. I assume what you meant is that Ulead detects
this situation, and tries to convert the MPEG into DVD-compatible, and
that may explain the reason why Ulead always tries to re-encode my
MPEG-2 videos.

I can understand what you said. But I doubt that is the case because
the video clip is recorded by Beyond-TV using a DVD-compatible format:
NTSC DVD Ready Hi-Res
720x480
4125K constant bitrate

May be I should do a test by doing this:
- Use Beyond-TV to generate a very short MPEG-2 file using a
DVD-compatible format.
- Do some minor editing on the video clip using Ulead.
- Use Ulead to generate a MPEG-2 file (called it second MPEG-2 file)
based on the edited video. Check if Ulead needs to re-render the
MPEG-2 or not.
- Do some more editing on the second MPEG-2 file and generate another
MPEG-2 file (make sure Smart Render is enabled) and see if Ulead will
render the video again.

If Ulead re-renders the video in both times, this means Smart Render
in this version of Ulead may have been disabled.

If Ulead re-renders the video in the first time, but it doesn't
re-render the video in the second time, this means Ulead doesn't
re-encode a MPEG file that Ulead generates; but somehow it needs to do
so for MPEG-2 file that other program generates. This means that
Beyond-TV generates a MPEG-2 file that Ulead thinks it is not DVD
compatible. In this case, I will have to look for another video
editing software.

I will see how the test goes.

Jay Chan
 
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On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 23:43:42 GMT, "John Doe" <john_doe@nospam.com>
wrote:

>Aren't there different flavors of MPEG 2 with only one of them meeting the
>DVD forums standards?

Desktop DVD recorders generate a special kind of .VOBs, which do not
turn easily in regular .mpg I assume hardware mpeg encoding PC cards
do the same. I managed to devise a way to get a regular .mpg from the
irregular VOBs, but it's a lot of trouble. There's a program,
PVAStrumento (http://www.offeryn.de/dv.htm), which I still need to
try, but looks like might be a solution for the issue of different
mpeg formats. Or perhaps the WinTV editor at
http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/support_pvr250-350.html

>"Jay Chan" <jaykchan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:c7e5acb2.0408021254.18d50716@posting.google.com...
>> I am quite sure that the problem is with Ulead.

I guess any other program would fail as much as Ulead

>> I use a Cut-Only video editor from Hauppauge that is specifically
>> designed for their PVR-250 card.

It may be able to handle the card's specific non-standard mpeg files.
Let me guess: use the remultiplex function of the WinTV Editor (I have
never used it, but from what I've read on Hauppauge's site), to make
the recorded mpegs into regular ones, then feed _that_ into Ulead's.
 
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> May be I should do a test by doing this:
> - Use Beyond-TV to generate a very short MPEG-2 file using a
> DVD-compatible format.
> - Do some minor editing on the video clip using Ulead.
> - Use Ulead to generate a MPEG-2 file (called it second MPEG-2 file)
> based on the edited video. Check if Ulead needs to re-render the
> MPEG-2 or not.
> - Do some more editing on the second MPEG-2 file and generate another
> MPEG-2 file (make sure Smart Render is enabled) and see if Ulead will
> render the video again.
>
> ...
>
> If Ulead re-renders the video in the first time, but it doesn't
> re-render the video in the second time, this means Ulead doesn't
> re-encode a MPEG file that Ulead generates; but somehow it needs to do
> so for MPEG-2 file that other program generates. This means that
> Beyond-TV generates a MPEG-2 file that Ulead thinks it is not DVD
> compatible. In this case, I will have to look for another video
> editing software.

I tested that, and I found that Ulead re-rendered the video the first
time based on the MPEG file coming from Beyond-TV, and it didn't
re-render the video the second time when I asked it to generate a MPEG
file based on a MPEG file that Ulead generated. This means Ulead
doesn't like the MPEG file that Beyond-TV has generated for some
reason.

Jay Chan
 
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> Desktop DVD recorders generate a special kind of .VOBs, which do not
> turn easily in regular .mpg I assume hardware mpeg encoding PC cards
> do the same.

That may or may not be the case. I don't know; but I guess I am
running out of idea, and I am open to any suggestion.

> There's a program, PVAStrumento (http://www.offeryn.de/dv.htm),
> which I still need to try, but looks like might be a solution for
> the issue of different mpeg formats.

Please post the result. I am interested to know.

> Or perhaps the WinTV editor at
> http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/support_pvr250-350.html

The WinTV editor that you mentioned is the same as the Cut-Only Video
Editor that I mentioned in my previous post. I don't see how it can
help.

> >> I use a Cut-Only video editor from Hauppauge that is specifically
> >> designed for their PVR-250 card.
>
> It may be able to handle the card's specific non-standard mpeg files.
> Let me guess: use the remultiplex function of the WinTV Editor (I have
> never used it, but from what I've read on Hauppauge's site), to make
> the recorded mpegs into regular ones, then feed _that_ into Ulead's.

I have tried the remultiplex function in the Cut-Only Video Editor
(WinTV Editor) to process a SVCD MPEG. But that doesn't made any
difference. Ulead re-render the video regardless if I ask it to
generate MPEG based on the original SVCD that I capture using
Beyond-TV or if I ask it to generate based on the SVCD remultiplexed.

Jay Chan
 
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Jay Chan wrote:
>>Aren't there different flavors of MPEG 2 with only one of them meeting the
>>DVD forums standards? This is the problem, depending on codec an AVI file
>>isn't always a standards compliant file and MPEG 2 isn't always and
>>standards compliant MPEG 2. They may play on the computer fine, but when
>>going to DVD or VCD these different flavors have to be dealt with or your
>>DVD player won't handle them, they only have one or two standard formats
>>installed in them.
>
>
> If I understand yours correctly, you are saying that the Cut-Only
> video editor may be able to generate a MPEG file; but that file may
> not be DVD-compatible. I assume what you meant is that Ulead detects
> this situation, and tries to convert the MPEG into DVD-compatible, and
> that may explain the reason why Ulead always tries to re-encode my
> MPEG-2 videos.
>
> I can understand what you said. But I doubt that is the case because
> the video clip is recorded by Beyond-TV using a DVD-compatible format:
> NTSC DVD Ready Hi-Res
> 720x480
> 4125K constant bitrate
>
> May be I should do a test by doing this:
> - Use Beyond-TV to generate a very short MPEG-2 file using a
> DVD-compatible format.
> - Do some minor editing on the video clip using Ulead.
> - Use Ulead to generate a MPEG-2 file (called it second MPEG-2 file)
> based on the edited video. Check if Ulead needs to re-render the
> MPEG-2 or not.
> - Do some more editing on the second MPEG-2 file and generate another
> MPEG-2 file (make sure Smart Render is enabled) and see if Ulead will
> render the video again.
>
> If Ulead re-renders the video in both times, this means Smart Render
> in this version of Ulead may have been disabled.
>
> If Ulead re-renders the video in the first time, but it doesn't
> re-render the video in the second time, this means Ulead doesn't
> re-encode a MPEG file that Ulead generates; but somehow it needs to do
> so for MPEG-2 file that other program generates. This means that
> Beyond-TV generates a MPEG-2 file that Ulead thinks it is not DVD
> compatible. In this case, I will have to look for another video
> editing software.
>
> I will see how the test goes.
>
> Jay Chan

You probably did this, but you have to set the parameters of the output
file to be exactly the same as the input. The slightest deviation and
you will re-render every time.

GA

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> You probably did this, but you have to set the parameters of the output
> file to be exactly the same as the input. The slightest deviation and
> you will re-render every time.

Yes, I have done that. Actually, that was the first thing I checked
when I started having the "Ulead re-render MPEG video", and that was
the reason why I posted the message in the first place.

I may try Ulead Movie Factory that another newsgroup member has no
problem using it to edit MPEG files from Beyond-TV.

Jay Chan