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What's HDTV Mean to My Existing A/V Devices?

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Anonymous
July 12, 2004 3:57:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

I am under the impression that HDTV will become common place and they
will stop boardcasting regular signals at some year down the road. I
am wondering what this means to all the existing A/V devices that I
have. I assume the "stop boardcasting regular signal" only applies to
people who use antenna to receive signals. This will not affect people
who get signals from cable or DirecTV (I am using DirecTV). With this
understanding, I have these questions:

- Can I still use my old and still good 32" TV? Do I need any adapter
or converter to receive regular signals from DirecTV or cable?
Obviously, I will not be able to see HDTV quality in my old TV. How do
I watch HDTV shows in my old TV (in reduced quality)? Do I need a
converter? Do you expect the converter to be expensive (like above
$100)? Will the cable box or the DirecTV receiver automatically
downgrade the signal to show it in an old TV? Will the converter in
the TV side or in the cable-box/receiver side? Obviously, having the
converter in the cable-box/receiver side is more convenient; then, I
don't need to have one converter in each A/V device.

- Let say I somehow get enough money to buy a HDTV set in two years
or so. Can I use it with a DVD-player that I will buy before the end
of this year (2004)? Do I have to get a HDTV-compatible DVD-player in
order to watch DVD or VCD or DVD-R in a HDTV set? Is there such a
thing called "HDTV-compatible DVD-player" available now?

- What will happen to my PVR device (Beyond-TV with PVR-250 tuner and
encoder in a 1.5 GHz PC)? I assume the existing PVR device and the PC
will not work with HDTV signal and have to use a converter to
downgrade the signal, right? What kind of computer and PVR component
will be able to handle HDTV signal? I assume this kind of devices and
computers are not available to consumers, right?

- Are these questions already answered somewhere else? Which keyword
to use to search for this info?

Thanks.

Jay Chan

More about : hdtv existing devices

Anonymous
July 13, 2004 2:09:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On 12 Jul 2004 11:57:39 -0700, jaykchan@hotmail.com (Jay Chan) wrote:
- snip -
>- What will happen to my PVR device (Beyond-TV with PVR-250 tuner and
>encoder in a 1.5 GHz PC)? I assume the existing PVR device and the PC
>will not work with HDTV signal and have to use a converter to
>downgrade the signal, right? What kind of computer and PVR component
>will be able to handle HDTV signal? I assume this kind of devices and
>computers are not available to consumers, right?

Current computers can handle HDTV. You need a graphics card that
supports IDCT to help with decoding. With a cheapo Radeon 7500 on a 3
GHz Celeron, I get about 55% load viewing European HDTV, which is
1920x1080, e.g. a lot more than what's mostly used in the US
(1280x768). Very good picture quality. Recording on the PC also works,
no CPU power necessary for that, because the digital satellite signal
already contains MPEG2.
The problem is that you need a HD DVD or blue ray recorder to store
entire movies, so you have to wait for this to become available. You
can however downscale the recording to normal TV resolution an
reencode, if you don't mind the computing time.

Cheers


http://www.codecpage.com
Anonymous
July 13, 2004 8:30:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

The government or any of the TV stations haven't said what will happen when
the HDTV deadline arrives. I suspect with the cost of HDTV's that at least
for 10 or more years they will be broad casting both. Otherwise you can
purchase conversion boxes that will down res. the HD broad casts to standard
TV quality. This is what I plan to do and I like the TV's I have now and see
no need what-so-ever to spend any money for a device that will in a short
time give Hollywood all of the control over what we can and can't record for
later viewing that they could ever want.

As far as I am concerned it is a scam to get people to pay money for
something no one needs. The only need is by Hollywood that is just frothing
at the bit to control video recording. With HDTV soon the only thing you
will be able to record is commercials.

John
Related resources
Anonymous
July 13, 2004 12:20:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

> Current computers can handle HDTV. You need a graphics card that
> supports IDCT to help with decoding. With a cheapo Radeon 7500 on a 3
> GHz Celeron, I get about 55% load viewing European HDTV, which is
> 1920x1080, e.g. a lot more than what's mostly used in the US
> (1280x768). Very good picture quality. Recording on the PC also works,
> no CPU power necessary for that, because the digital satellite signal
> already contains MPEG2.
> The problem is that you need a HD DVD or blue ray recorder to store
> entire movies, so you have to wait for this to become available. You
> can however downscale the recording to normal TV resolution an
> reencode, if you don't mind the computing time.

Good to know that many existing PC components can handle HDTV. I will
need to go back home and check the specification of the nVidia
GeForce2 video card to see if it supports IDCT (I cannot find that
info in nVidia web site). I have a feeling that my PC that is P4
1.5GHz may or may not be able to handle it if yours is already
reaching 55% load.

I don't really care about if a DVD-recoder can record HDTV movie in
one DVD or not because I don't record long length video. As long as I
can record 30 minute video onto a DVD, I will do fine. The question
that I have in mind is for DVD player -- especially if a currently
available DVD player can read a DVD-R or CD-R that has HDTV video on
it. I guess this should be fine, right?

Thanks.

Jay Chan
July 13, 2004 1:39:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 22:09:45 +0200, codecpage
<nospam-codecbox@email.com> wrote:

>On 12 Jul 2004 11:57:39 -0700, jaykchan@hotmail.com (Jay Chan) wrote:
>- snip -
>>- What will happen to my PVR device (Beyond-TV with PVR-250 tuner and
>>encoder in a 1.5 GHz PC)? I assume the existing PVR device and the PC
>>will not work with HDTV signal and have to use a converter to
>>downgrade the signal, right? What kind of computer and PVR component
>>will be able to handle HDTV signal? I assume this kind of devices and
>>computers are not available to consumers, right?
>
>Current computers can handle HDTV. You need a graphics card that
>supports IDCT to help with decoding. With a cheapo Radeon 7500 on a 3
>GHz Celeron, I get about 55% load viewing European HDTV, which is
>1920x1080, e.g. a lot more than what's mostly used in the US
>(1280x768). Very good picture quality. Recording on the PC also works,
>no CPU power necessary for that, because the digital satellite signal
>already contains MPEG2.
>The problem is that you need a HD DVD or blue ray recorder to store
>entire movies, so you have to wait for this to become available. You
>can however downscale the recording to normal TV resolution an
>reencode, if you don't mind the computing time.
>

There are currently available D-VHS (digital VHS), these are quite
capable of recording HDTV. I bought a JVC version which supports
firewire in, so far given my cable companies boxes, this is the only
route I found so far to record HD, but thankfully my cable company
recently started providing boxes with firewire out. I bought mine when
Best Buy was blowing them out for 250usd, got the floor model with
no manual, so not sure if they will aquire HD broadcasts via rf.
Not only will they record & playback HDTV video, but they also record
surround sound. To my my knowledge this is the current top end
recording device currently available on the consumer market.

One need not wait for the blue rays to arrive to record HDTV.
A pitfall I found (I have the JVC HM-DH3000U) is that the timer
can not be set to record from I-link (firewire) input, perhaps the
the newer model (HM-DH4000U) adressed this problem, though
I recieved no responce from JVC product support when I sent an
email inquiry about this. So you have be there to start a recording,
but you can use the quick timer.

D-VHS tapes are slightly more expensive, but you can drill a hole
opposite the S-VHS hole on S-VHS tapes & use them. D-VHS
tapes will provide longer record times.

The future Blue ray's may also be filled with various copy protection
scheemes that may prevent recording of some broadcasts.
Anonymous
July 13, 2004 7:01:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"John Doe" <john_doe@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:CzJIc.1990$54.22535@typhoon.sonic.net...
> The government or any of the TV stations haven't said what will happen
when
> the HDTV deadline arrives. I suspect with the cost of HDTV's that at least
> for 10 or more years they will be broad casting both. Otherwise you can
> purchase conversion boxes that will down res. the HD broad casts to
standard
> TV quality. This is what I plan to do and I like the TV's I have now and
see
> no need what-so-ever to spend any money for a device that will in a short
> time give Hollywood all of the control over what we can and can't record
for
> later viewing that they could ever want.
>
> As far as I am concerned it is a scam to get people to pay money for
> something no one needs. The only need is by Hollywood that is just
frothing
> at the bit to control video recording. With HDTV soon the only thing you
> will be able to record is commercials.
>
As far as I know, there is no deadline for HDTV. There is one for
BROADCAST stations that use public airwaves to change over to
digital broadcasting. Also, AFAIK there is no requirement for
Cable providers to switch to digital. HDTV is digital, but digital
is not necessarily HDTV. It isn't even necessarily all TV because
the broadcasters will be allowed to multiplex other types of digital
information onto their digital broadcast signal.

So, what does that mean? If you have an analog TV and you want
to view "over the air" signals, you will need a Digital to analog
converter to make the"over the air" signal into something your TV
can accept. If you have cable, then it will be up to them as to
whether they will continue to provide analog signals to the home.
Even if they drop analog service, they will still digital cable set top
boxes to subscribers and those may continue to have analog outs
for a while.

Those of us that are old enough remember when UHF TV first
appeared. There were units you could use to pick up UHF
signals and convert them to channel 3 or 4 so you could use
your old VHF only TV to watch these "new" UHF stations.
At the same time, there was a mandate to require all new TVs
to have UHF inputs. I'm expecting a similar scenario for Digital.

David
Anonymous
July 13, 2004 11:45:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On 13 Jul 2004 08:20:19 -0700, jaykchan@hotmail.com (Jay Chan) wrote:

>Good to know that many existing PC components can handle HDTV. I will
>need to go back home and check the specification of the nVidia
>GeForce2 video card to see if it supports IDCT (I cannot find that
>info in nVidia web site). I have a feeling that my PC that is P4
>1.5GHz may or may not be able to handle it if yours is already
>reaching 55% load.
This card should be able to do it, but the player software also has to
support the card. Consider a cheap Celeron 2.4 if you still get too
slow. Clock speed id the only thing that counts here.

>I don't really care about if a DVD-recoder can record HDTV movie in
>one DVD or not because I don't record long length video. As long as I
>can record 30 minute video onto a DVD, I will do fine.
The European format fits about 35 min onto one recordable DVD.

>The question
>that I have in mind is for DVD player -- especially if a currently
>available DVD player can read a DVD-R or CD-R that has HDTV video on
>it. I guess this should be fine, right?
If you mean computer DVD drives, those should be fine. Stand alone
players will not work.

Cheers



http://www.codecpage.com
Anonymous
July 14, 2004 2:16:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:45:05 +0200, codecpage
<nospam-codecbox@email.com> wrote:

>On 13 Jul 2004 08:20:19 -0700, jaykchan@hotmail.com (Jay Chan) wrote:
>
>>Good to know that many existing PC components can handle HDTV. I will
>>need to go back home and check the specification of the nVidia
>>GeForce2 video card to see if it supports IDCT (I cannot find that
>>info in nVidia web site). I have a feeling that my PC that is P4
>>1.5GHz may or may not be able to handle it if yours is already
>>reaching 55% load.
>This card should be able to do it, but the player software also has to
>support the card. Consider a cheap Celeron 2.4 if you still get too
>slow. Clock speed id the only thing that counts here.

p.s. with my Radeon 7500, a Cyberlink decoder from an ATI CD does the
job, while the very same version number of Cyberlink PowerDVD itself
does not. In fact, that broke the ATI decoder installation completely.
I recommend to use a DVD player that comes from the card manufacturer
(mostly included in retail versions). That should work best.

Cheers


http://www.codecpage.com
Anonymous
July 14, 2004 1:29:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

> >Good to know that many existing PC components can handle HDTV. I will
> >need to go back home and check the specification of the nVidia
> >GeForce2 video card to see if it supports IDCT (I cannot find that
> >info in nVidia web site). I have a feeling that my PC that is P4
> >1.5GHz may or may not be able to handle it if yours is already
> >reaching 55% load.
> This card should be able to do it, but the player software also has to
> support the card. Consider a cheap Celeron 2.4 if you still get too
> slow. Clock speed id the only thing that counts here.

Now I think of this, I probably will get a new PC by that time
considering the fact that my PC is more than 2 years old now. It will
be a 5 years old PC by the time I am ready to do anything with HDTV.
Seem like this will not be an issue for me.

> >I don't really care about if a DVD-recoder can record HDTV movie in
> >one DVD or not because I don't record long length video. As long as I
> >can record 30 minute video onto a DVD, I will do fine.
> The European format fits about 35 min onto one recordable DVD.

OK, that will be tight. But will still be good enough.

> >The question
> >that I have in mind is for DVD player -- especially if a currently
> >available DVD player can read a DVD-R or CD-R that has HDTV video on
> >it. I guess this should be fine, right?
> If you mean computer DVD drives, those should be fine. Stand alone
> players will not work.

If I understand this correctly, I assume this means that a current
standalone DVD-player only expects to see a few standard DVD formats
(resolutions) that it doesn't expect to see the higher resolution in
HDTV video. I can understand this... This is probably still OK to buy
a current standard DVD player now considering the fact that a
DVD-player (not a recorder) is quite cheap as long as I stay away from
major named brands.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to explain this to me.

Jay Chan
Anonymous
July 15, 2004 5:09:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

jaykchan@hotmail.com (Jay Chan) wrote:
> I am under the impression that HDTV will become common place and they
> will stop boardcasting regular signals at some year down the road.

There are dates for over the air broadcasters, but they include
conditions under which then can be postponed. I'd guess they will
almost certainly be postponed.

> - Can I still use my old and still good 32" TV? Do I need any adapter
> or converter to receive regular signals from DirecTV or cable?

I'm not clear what you are asking here. You already use a converter
for DirectTV, and may be using one for cable (particularly if you have
"digital cable" service).

> Obviously, I will not be able to see HDTV quality in my old TV. How do
> I watch HDTV shows in my old TV (in reduced quality)? Do I need a
> converter? Do you expect the converter to be expensive (like above
> $100)?

A converter (technically, a tuner, decoder, and scaler in one box)
is necessary. They exist today, starting around $300, and are likely
to fall in price. A tuner by itself (not very useful for many people)
can be under $50. Also, most of the high definition satellite
boxes for DirectTV, Dish Network, and VOOM also include an over-the-air
tuner (the decoder and scaler is already necessary for providing
the picture from the satellite signal).

> Will the cable box or the DirecTV receiver automatically
> downgrade the signal to show it in an old TV?

All the current ones do.

> Will the converter in the TV side or in the cable-box/receiver side?

Yes. Most STBs (set-top-box--what these converter boxes are usually
called) do it all and provide a display signal, but there is also a
standard for putting most of the electronics in the TV with a dongle
to allow for cable-company specific demodulation and decryption.

> Obviously, having the
> converter in the cable-box/receiver side is more convenient; then, I
> don't need to have one converter in each A/V device.

But then you'll need one cable box for each A/V device! (Not strictly
true, but practically true)

> - Let say I somehow get enough money to buy a HDTV set in two years
> or so. Can I use it with a DVD-player that I will buy before the end
> of this year (2004)?

Pretty much all high definition displays can accept standard definition
signals.

> Do I have to get a HDTV-compatible DVD-player in
> order to watch DVD or VCD or DVD-R in a HDTV set? Is there such a
> thing called "HDTV-compatible DVD-player" available now?

High Definition DVD is in the works, but not available yet.

However, there is a high definition VCR standard (D-VHS), and there
are DVDs with high definition movies using a proprietary standard,
Windows Media Video High Definition, which basically requires you
hook up a moderately high performance computer to a high definition
display. The most well known title in this format is Terminator 2
Extreme Edition, which has the high definition version as an bonus extra.

> - What will happen to my PVR device (Beyond-TV with PVR-250 tuner and
> encoder in a 1.5 GHz PC)?

It will still work on standard definition analog video.

> I assume the existing PVR device and the PC
> will not work with HDTV signal and have to use a converter to
> downgrade the signal, right? What kind of computer and PVR component
> will be able to handle HDTV signal? I assume this kind of devices and
> computers are not available to consumers, right?

There are already over-the-air HD tuners for computers. Now,
this is a fun area to experiment with, since you can get into it
relatively inexpensively. The thing is, HD already is compressed
using MPEG-2, so you don't need to encode the digitized video merely
to get managable bitrate video into your computer. So there are HD
tuner cards which just have the tuner and demodulator on board,
no need for compression or decompression hardware. I suggest
you go to the AV Science Forum <http://www.avsforum.com/&gt; and go
to the Home Theater PC section where you can read on the trials
and tribulations of receiving and viewing HDTV on your computer.

Sam
who used a Divco FusionHDTV card to record and watch HDTV on my HTPC.
(Unfortunately, I've recently moved and can't get reception in
this apartment.)
Anonymous
July 16, 2004 1:40:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Thanks for clarifying many issues that I asked in my original post.
Seem like most of my existing A/V devices will be able to work in HDTV
environment even if they cannot take advantage of HDTV quality -- that
is provided that I get a set-top box that can do the conversion.

> > Obviously, having the
> > converter in the cable-box/receiver side is more convenient; then, I
> > don't need to have one converter in each A/V device.
>
> But then you'll need one cable box for each A/V device! (Not strictly
> true, but practically true)

I don't quite understand. If I want to record HDTV video in a regular
DVD recorder, I will need to have a converter for the DVD recorder if
the set-top-box doesn't have a converter, right?

> There are already over-the-air HD tuners for computers. Now,
> this is a fun area to experiment with, since you can get into it
> relatively inexpensively. The thing is, HD already is compressed
> using MPEG-2, so you don't need to encode the digitized video merely
> to get managable bitrate video into your computer. So there are HD
> tuner cards which just have the tuner and demodulator on board,
> no need for compression or decompression hardware. I suggest
> you go to the AV Science Forum <http://www.avsforum.com/&gt; and go
> to the Home Theater PC section where you can read on the trials
> and tribulations of receiving and viewing HDTV on your computer.

Good to know that most recently sold PCs will be fast enough to handle
HDTV signal if it is properly equiped with A/V device. Thanks.

Jay Chan
!