Walk me through 16:9 on Premiere for 4:3 TV showing

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

Hi there

I like to shoot in 16:9, but so far, if I want to show the footage, I
have to show off my camera, playing it on a conventional TV (several
different ones, so buying a widescreen enhanced is not the solution
here) shows the footage anomorphically squeezed.

Now, I know there is a way to set the frame size so that it does show on
NSTC 4:3 TVs properly. How do I do that? I would have to add black bars
to the top and bottom, after all my editing is done and the frame size
adjustment is the last step right?

I am using Premiere 6.5. What I have tried is setting the aspect ratio
of the clip AND the pixel aspect ratio AND tried the settings aspect
ratio of both 4:3 and 16:9.

Nada, the video looks the same in each, even when I put black bars in
there. IS there something that I am not doing right?

I would like to even edit the 16:9 and put it back onto the miniDV tape,
but in the "4:3" black barred version so I can show people.

Can anyone help?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

While you're waiting for a Premiere specific answer, here's something that
may help:

When you specify an aspect ratio in an editing program, you are doing one of
two things:

1. Setting a file tag. This doesn't change anything about the actual video.
It's simply a cue to the eventual user or device as to the type of material
it is.

2. Letterboxing. This is actually a transformation of the frame that reduces
the number of vertical scan lines to about 384, filling in above and below
that with black. The horizontal dimension of the video is preserved. This is
what enables a 4:3 TV to display widescren material.

(2) is what you want. On the program I use, which is not Premiere,
letterboxing is an effect, and is found with the other effects.

You might think that an editing program would have a simple command to
output letterbox16:9, but this is not necessarily so. In the case of Avid
Express, this must be applied as an effect.

"eb7g" <eb7g@shaw.caNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:dbWNc.126604$Mr4.62369@pd7tw1no...
> Hi there
>
> I like to shoot in 16:9, but so far, if I want to show the footage, I
> have to show off my camera, playing it on a conventional TV (several
> different ones, so buying a widescreen enhanced is not the solution
> here) shows the footage anomorphically squeezed.
>
> Now, I know there is a way to set the frame size so that it does show on
> NSTC 4:3 TVs properly. How do I do that? I would have to add black bars
> to the top and bottom, after all my editing is done and the frame size
> adjustment is the last step right?
>
> I am using Premiere 6.5. What I have tried is setting the aspect ratio
> of the clip AND the pixel aspect ratio AND tried the settings aspect
> ratio of both 4:3 and 16:9.
>
> Nada, the video looks the same in each, even when I put black bars in
> there. IS there something that I am not doing right?
>
> I would like to even edit the 16:9 and put it back onto the miniDV tape,
> but in the "4:3" black barred version so I can show people.
>
> Can anyone help?
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

In Premiere, this can be done with a simple mask on an overlay track. Using
alpha channel. Or even a 'title' will do the trick. Of course it does have
to be rendered.
"eb7g" <eb7g@shaw.caNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:dbWNc.126604$Mr4.62369@pd7tw1no...
> Hi there
>
> I like to shoot in 16:9, but so far, if I want to show the footage, I
> have to show off my camera, playing it on a conventional TV (several
> different ones, so buying a widescreen enhanced is not the solution
> here) shows the footage anomorphically squeezed.
>
> Now, I know there is a way to set the frame size so that it does show on
> NSTC 4:3 TVs properly. How do I do that? I would have to add black bars
> to the top and bottom, after all my editing is done and the frame size
> adjustment is the last step right?
>
> I am using Premiere 6.5. What I have tried is setting the aspect ratio
> of the clip AND the pixel aspect ratio AND tried the settings aspect
> ratio of both 4:3 and 16:9.
>
> Nada, the video looks the same in each, even when I put black bars in
> there. IS there something that I am not doing right?
>
> I would like to even edit the 16:9 and put it back onto the miniDV tape,
> but in the "4:3" black barred version so I can show people.
>
> Can anyone help?
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

On 29-Jul-2004, "nappy" <no_spam_@sorry.com> wrote:

> In Premiere, this can be done with a simple mask on an overlay track.
> Using
> alpha channel. Or even a 'title' will do the trick. Of course it does have
> to be rendered.
> "eb7g" <eb7g@shaw.caNOSPAM> wrote in message
> news:dbWNc.126604$Mr4.62369@pd7tw1no...
> > Hi there
> >
> > I like to shoot in 16:9, but so far, if I want to show the footage, I
> > have to show off my camera, playing it on a conventional TV (several
> > different ones, so buying a widescreen enhanced is not the solution
> > here) shows the footage anomorphically squeezed.

I think you're missing the point of his question. The 16:9 footage is
stretched vertically in his 4:3 frame. Masking it off won't help.

Here's what you need to do...

Keep everything is a 16:9 project until your production is complete. Render
it to a single 16:9 DV AVI file. You can then archive this back to tape for
a backup and keep a full resolution copy.

Next, open a new 4:3 project. Import the 16:9 file as a single "clip". Apply
the effect "Transform" to the clip and set the height to 75% and render
(this will take a while).

You now should have a 4:3 movie with your 16:9 footage "letterboxed". Export
to tape and you can show it on any 4:3 TV and it will display correctly with
the right aspect ratio and black bars on the top and bottom.

--
Chris

Munged email. To reply by email (each "word" a letter):
see jay bee are oh oh kay ee [AT] em ess en [DOT] see oh em

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

"FlyByKnight" <FlyByKnight@example.invalid> wrote in message
newsgbOc.18564$I82.12899@fe52.usenetserver.com...
>
> On 29-Jul-2004, "nappy" <no_spam_@sorry.com> wrote:
>
> > In Premiere, this can be done with a simple mask on an overlay track.
> > Using
> > alpha channel. Or even a 'title' will do the trick. Of course it does
have
> > to be rendered.
> > "eb7g" <eb7g@shaw.caNOSPAM> wrote in message
> > news:dbWNc.126604$Mr4.62369@pd7tw1no...
> > > Hi there
> > >
> > > I like to shoot in 16:9, but so far, if I want to show the footage, I
> > > have to show off my camera, playing it on a conventional TV (several
> > > different ones, so buying a widescreen enhanced is not the solution
> > > here) shows the footage anomorphically squeezed.
>
> I think you're missing the point of his question. The 16:9 footage is
> stretched vertically in his 4:3 frame. Masking it off won't help.


true.. so true.. ashamed am i.. can;t he use 'maintain aspect' and size it?


>
> Here's what you need to do...
>
> Keep everything is a 16:9 project until your production is complete.
Render
> it to a single 16:9 DV AVI file. You can then archive this back to tape
for
> a backup and keep a full resolution copy.
>
> Next, open a new 4:3 project. Import the 16:9 file as a single "clip".
Apply
> the effect "Transform" to the clip and set the height to 75% and render
> (this will take a while).
>
> You now should have a 4:3 movie with your 16:9 footage "letterboxed".
Export
> to tape and you can show it on any 4:3 TV and it will display correctly
with
> the right aspect ratio and black bars on the top and bottom.
>
> --
> Chris
>
> Munged email. To reply by email (each "word" a letter):
> see jay bee are oh oh kay ee [AT] em ess en [DOT] see oh em
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

On 29-Jul-2004, "nappy" <no_spam_@sorry.com> wrote:

> > I think you're missing the point of his question. The 16:9 footage is
> > stretched vertically in his 4:3 frame. Masking it off won't help.
>
>
> true.. so true.. ashamed am i.. can;t he use 'maintain aspect' and size
> it?

In Premiere 6.0, the "Maintain Aspect Ratio" setting didn't work properly
after the clip was rendered. They may have fixed this in 6.5 (or Pro 1.5)
but maybe not. Using the tranform effect removes all doubt and ensures
correct AR in the final render. Better safe than sorry, I always say.

--
Chris

Munged email. To reply by email (each "word" a letter):
see jay bee are oh oh kay ee [AT] em ess en [DOT] see oh em

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

interesting.. I never had a problem with it.

P
"FlyByKnight" <FlyByKnight@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:WbvOc.32619$cX4.21965@fe04.usenetserver.com...
>
> On 29-Jul-2004, "nappy" <no_spam_@sorry.com> wrote:
>
> > > I think you're missing the point of his question. The 16:9 footage is
> > > stretched vertically in his 4:3 frame. Masking it off won't help.
> >
> >
> > true.. so true.. ashamed am i.. can;t he use 'maintain aspect' and size
> > it?
>
> In Premiere 6.0, the "Maintain Aspect Ratio" setting didn't work properly
> after the clip was rendered. They may have fixed this in 6.5 (or Pro 1.5)
> but maybe not. Using the tranform effect removes all doubt and ensures
> correct AR in the final render. Better safe than sorry, I always say.
>
> --
> Chris
>
> Munged email. To reply by email (each "word" a letter):
> see jay bee are oh oh kay ee [AT] em ess en [DOT] see oh em
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

"nappy" <no_spam_@sorry.com> wrote in message news:<bAvOc.101907$Li4.11505@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>...

>
> interesting.. I never had a problem with it.
>

" Maintain Aspect Ratio" would have no effect, as so-called widescreen
footage has a 4x3 aspect, it just happens to be anamorphically
stretched within the image so that it can be viewed correctly on a
widescreen TV, which induces a horizontal stretch by changing the
shape of the pixels, thus correcting the proportions.

M.A.R. would have worked with graphics that have a truly different
aspect ratio in actual dimension, rather than being intended to be
watched with distorted pixels.

Dylan

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

This worked FlyByKnight. Thanks!!!




FlyByKnight wrote:

> On 29-Jul-2004, "nappy" <no_spam_@sorry.com> wrote:
>
>
>>In Premiere, this can be done with a simple mask on an overlay track.
>>Using
>>alpha channel. Or even a 'title' will do the trick. Of course it does have
>>to be rendered.
>>"eb7g" <eb7g@shaw.caNOSPAM> wrote in message
>>news:dbWNc.126604$Mr4.62369@pd7tw1no...
>>
>>>Hi there
>>>
>>>I like to shoot in 16:9, but so far, if I want to show the footage, I
>>>have to show off my camera, playing it on a conventional TV (several
>>>different ones, so buying a widescreen enhanced is not the solution
>>>here) shows the footage anomorphically squeezed.
>
>
> I think you're missing the point of his question. The 16:9 footage is
> stretched vertically in his 4:3 frame. Masking it off won't help.
>
> Here's what you need to do...
>
> Keep everything is a 16:9 project until your production is complete. Render
> it to a single 16:9 DV AVI file. You can then archive this back to tape for
> a backup and keep a full resolution copy.
>
> Next, open a new 4:3 project. Import the 16:9 file as a single "clip". Apply
> the effect "Transform" to the clip and set the height to 75% and render
> (this will take a while).
>
> You now should have a 4:3 movie with your 16:9 footage "letterboxed". Export
> to tape and you can show it on any 4:3 TV and it will display correctly with
> the right aspect ratio and black bars on the top and bottom.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

Does anyone else have this problem?

I am supposed to be able to export edited videos from my Sony Viao
laptap into my Sony PDX10. This can be done through Premiere 6.5 or
through Sony DV GateMotion (this came with the computer).

Well I edit the clip in Premiere and when I am done, regardless of
whether it's 4:3 or 16:9, it will not import into DV GateMotion. Perhaps
there is some special setting/treatment I can do in Premiere to get DV
Gate to accept the Premiere rendered file? Anyone know?

Anyhow, I am able to get clips to sorta "print to tape" or "export to
video" or even play off the timeline and record on the camera. HOWEVER,
the image will break up, VERY badly, like totally blank out, sound cuts
in and out, a lot of bad stuff. Basically it will start for about 10
secs then the rest will be screwed up.

Does anyone have experience with this and have any solutions? Perhaps
Sony Vegas will export properly?

Thanks

 

[Someone]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

You should be able to export directly to the camera from Premiere. That is
done every day by a lot of people.



"eb7g" <eb7g@shaw.caNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:GhxPc.155922$Mr4.140684@pd7tw1no...
> Does anyone else have this problem?
>
> I am supposed to be able to export edited videos from my Sony Viao
> laptap into my Sony PDX10. This can be done through Premiere 6.5 or
> through Sony DV GateMotion (this came with the computer).
>
> Well I edit the clip in Premiere and when I am done, regardless of
> whether it's 4:3 or 16:9, it will not import into DV GateMotion. Perhaps
> there is some special setting/treatment I can do in Premiere to get DV
> Gate to accept the Premiere rendered file? Anyone know?
>
> Anyhow, I am able to get clips to sorta "print to tape" or "export to
> video" or even play off the timeline and record on the camera. HOWEVER,
> the image will break up, VERY badly, like totally blank out, sound cuts
> in and out, a lot of bad stuff. Basically it will start for about 10
> secs then the rest will be screwed up.
>
> Does anyone have experience with this and have any solutions? Perhaps
> Sony Vegas will export properly?
>
> Thanks
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 20:15:34 GMT, eb7g <eb7g@shaw.caNOSPAM> wrote:

>Does anyone else have this problem?
>
>I am supposed to be able to export edited videos from my Sony Viao
>laptap into my Sony PDX10. This can be done through Premiere 6.5 or
>through Sony DV GateMotion (this came with the computer).
>
>Well I edit the clip in Premiere and when I am done, regardless of
>whether it's 4:3 or 16:9, it will not import into DV GateMotion. Perhaps
>there is some special setting/treatment I can do in Premiere to get DV
>Gate to accept the Premiere rendered file? Anyone know?
>
>Anyhow, I am able to get clips to sorta "print to tape" or "export to
>video" or even play off the timeline and record on the camera. HOWEVER,
>the image will break up, VERY badly, like totally blank out, sound cuts
>in and out, a lot of bad stuff. Basically it will start for about 10
>secs then the rest will be screwed up.
>
>Does anyone have experience with this and have any solutions? Perhaps
>Sony Vegas will export properly?

I've also experienced that DVgate only works with files captured with
DVgate. Maybe it is a dv type (1 or 2) thing. The best thing you can
do is to capture with Premiere, edit with Premiere and export with
Premiere, that should work. Vegas is certainly worth a try.

I set my hope on DV to be a good standard which would be
interchangeable between lots of programs, it appeared to be not
trouble free however.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

I think you will find that in order for you to export edited video
from your VAIO using DVGate, it is necessary for you to render it in
Premiere using the Sony DV codec ONLY, using the correct settings for
DVGate, such as audio, interleaving rate of each frame, rather than
each second, etc.

The best way to assure that you are using the correct settings is to
"capture" (import) a video clip using DVGAte(Motion, and then
determine what settings DVGate used to import the clip. When
rendering a clip for eventual export, you must use exactly the same
settings as the test clip, and most importantly, use ONLY the Sony DV
codec for rendering.

Premiere is most likely not set up to use the Sony DV codec, so any
video rendered by any other codec in Premiere automatically becomes
incompatible with DVGate.

Commencing with Premiere 5.1 (as I recall), Sony provided a "Sony DV
codec plug-in" for Premiere. If you use the plug-in AND religiously
adhere to the Sony parameters, you should be fine.

One other caution: My experience has all been with older VAIOs and
versions of DVGate. Those versions of hardware and software used
Video for windows, and were limited to 2 GB maximum file size (about 9
and 1/2 minute video files).

If you are using newer versions of VAIOs and DVGAte, then feel free to
ignore all the above.

"someone" <mike@xyz.com> wrote in message news:<cemd2803vl@enews1.newsguy.com>...
> You should be able to export directly to the camera from Premiere. That is
> done every day by a lot of people.
>
>
>
> "eb7g" <eb7g@shaw.caNOSPAM> wrote in message
> news:GhxPc.155922$Mr4.140684@pd7tw1no...
> > Does anyone else have this problem?
> >
> > I am supposed to be able to export edited videos from my Sony Viao
> > laptap into my Sony PDX10. This can be done through Premiere 6.5 or
> > through Sony DV GateMotion (this came with the computer).
> >
> > Well I edit the clip in Premiere and when I am done, regardless of
> > whether it's 4:3 or 16:9, it will not import into DV GateMotion. Perhaps
> > there is some special setting/treatment I can do in Premiere to get DV
> > Gate to accept the Premiere rendered file? Anyone know?
> >
> > Anyhow, I am able to get clips to sorta "print to tape" or "export to
> > video" or even play off the timeline and record on the camera. HOWEVER,
> > the image will break up, VERY badly, like totally blank out, sound cuts
> > in and out, a lot of bad stuff. Basically it will start for about 10
> > secs then the rest will be screwed up.
> >
> > Does anyone have experience with this and have any solutions? Perhaps
> > Sony Vegas will export properly?
> >
> > Thanks
> >

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On 3 Aug 2004 08:44:57 -0700, sandyprice@msn.com (mikep76) wrote:

>I think you will find that in order for you to export edited video
>from your VAIO using DVGate, it is necessary for you to render it in
>Premiere using the Sony DV codec ONLY, using the correct settings for
>DVGate, such as audio, interleaving rate of each frame, rather than
>each second, etc.
>
>The best way to assure that you are using the correct settings is to
>"capture" (import) a video clip using DVGAte(Motion, and then
>determine what settings DVGate used to import the clip. When
>rendering a clip for eventual export, you must use exactly the same
>settings as the test clip, and most importantly, use ONLY the Sony DV
>codec for rendering.
>
>Premiere is most likely not set up to use the Sony DV codec, so any
>video rendered by any other codec in Premiere automatically becomes
>incompatible with DVGate.
>
>Commencing with Premiere 5.1 (as I recall), Sony provided a "Sony DV
>codec plug-in" for Premiere. If you use the plug-in AND religiously
>adhere to the Sony parameters, you should be fine.
>
>One other caution: My experience has all been with older VAIOs and
>versions of DVGate. Those versions of hardware and software used
>Video for windows, and were limited to 2 GB maximum file size (about 9
>and 1/2 minute video files).
>
>If you are using newer versions of VAIOs and DVGAte, then feel free to
>ignore all the above.

Interesting story. Did you ever succeed with the described procedure
in opening a file from Adobe's Premiere with DVgate? Thank you.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

YUP. I still own a VAIO 522DS, a VAIO 314DS(?), a VAIO F-180 laptop
(which SONY said could not do video, but with a bootleg copy of
DVGate, I was capturing editing and outputting back to tape within 5
minutes of installing DVGate, and a PictureBook C1PVK (Win2k OS).

I eventually was able to load a later version of DVGate from a VAIO
XG29 onto any of my others, and update them to include the DVGate
plug-in for Premiere 5.1, which included the ability to output MPEG-2
video as well as MPEG-1 and DV.

If you search this forum for my name, back several years (starting in
late 1999 or early 2000) you will find that I gave this same advice to
many VAIO users who could not get them to import, edit and output back
to tape. Their problem almost always stemmed from using the wrong
settings for DVGate, or attempting to render directly in Premiere (4.2
or 5.1) without using the Sony DV Codec option in Premiere (with the
DVGate parameters.)

Funprice <jhbusscherNOSPAM@freemail.nl> wrote in message news:<kaevg0h5vmkt7ttp54cnur4g74gss5sl44@4ax.com>...
> On 3 Aug 2004 08:44:57 -0700, sandyprice@msn.com (mikep76) wrote:
>
> >I think you will find that in order for you to export edited video
> >from your VAIO using DVGate, it is necessary for you to render it in
> >Premiere using the Sony DV codec ONLY, using the correct settings for
> >DVGate, such as audio, interleaving rate of each frame, rather than
> >each second, etc.
> >
> >The best way to assure that you are using the correct settings is to
> >"capture" (import) a video clip using DVGAte(Motion, and then
> >determine what settings DVGate used to import the clip. When
> >rendering a clip for eventual export, you must use exactly the same
> >settings as the test clip, and most importantly, use ONLY the Sony DV
> >codec for rendering.
> >
> >Premiere is most likely not set up to use the Sony DV codec, so any
> >video rendered by any other codec in Premiere automatically becomes
> >incompatible with DVGate.
> >
> >Commencing with Premiere 5.1 (as I recall), Sony provided a "Sony DV
> >codec plug-in" for Premiere. If you use the plug-in AND religiously
> >adhere to the Sony parameters, you should be fine.
> >
> >One other caution: My experience has all been with older VAIOs and
> >versions of DVGate. Those versions of hardware and software used
> >Video for windows, and were limited to 2 GB maximum file size (about 9
> >and 1/2 minute video files).
> >
> >If you are using newer versions of VAIOs and DVGAte, then feel free to
> >ignore all the above.
>
> Interesting story. Did you ever succeed with the described procedure
> in opening a file from Adobe's Premiere with DVgate? Thank you.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On 3 Aug 2004 19:51:36 -0700, sandyprice@msn.com (mikep76) wrote:

>YUP. I still own a VAIO 522DS, a VAIO 314DS(?), a VAIO F-180 laptop
>(which SONY said could not do video, but with a bootleg copy of
>DVGate, I was capturing editing and outputting back to tape within 5
>minutes of installing DVGate, and a PictureBook C1PVK (Win2k OS).
>
>I eventually was able to load a later version of DVGate from a VAIO
>XG29 onto any of my others, and update them to include the DVGate
>plug-in for Premiere 5.1, which included the ability to output MPEG-2
>video as well as MPEG-1 and DV.
>
>If you search this forum for my name, back several years (starting in
>late 1999 or early 2000) you will find that I gave this same advice to
>many VAIO users who could not get them to import, edit and output back
>to tape. Their problem almost always stemmed from using the wrong
>settings for DVGate, or attempting to render directly in Premiere (4.2
>or 5.1) without using the Sony DV Codec option in Premiere (with the
>DVGate parameters.)

To bother you again and to take away more of my disbelieve: can you be
more specific on what those DVgate parameters are and should be set
to? Thanks again.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Funprice:

I went to VEgas a coule of years ago, and no longer even have Premiere
on any of my machines. I started using Premiere 4.2 on an old Gateway
Pentium Pro using a FAST AV Master campture card. When I got my VAIO
522DS I moved Premiere 4.2 onto that machine. After a lot of reading,
web-crawling and trial and error attempts, I finally learned that I
had to render in 2 GB or smaller file size, use the Sony DV Codec
option in Premiere (4.2 or 5.1), select 720 x 480 frame size (Premiere
4.2 would naturally choose 640 x 480 frame size if I didn't change the
preference list), interlace set at single frame, rather than each
second, use only the "SONY" correct audio sample rate, (which was
either 44.1 KHZ or 48 KHZ - I don't remember which), and there may
have been more settings, but I no longer concern myself with them, so
I don't recall what they might have been.

Since you have never said which version of Premiere and VAIO you are
using, only implying that you question my veracity, I can be of no
further assistance that this. As I said in my first reply, if you are
using more recent hardware or software versions, none of this may be
pertinent.

The only other suggestion I can offer is the following URL for the
unofficial Sony website:

http://p200.ezboard.com/bunofficialsony

where you can search their archives, which are full of frustrated VAIO
users trying to help each other figure out how to use their Sony
equipment and software.

Funprice <jhbusscherNOSPAM@freemail.nl> wrote in message news:<fs91h05frslmah8ukvbjs2j0e60sepreej@4ax.com>...

> To bother you again and to take away more of my disbelieve: can you be
> more specific on what those DVgate parameters are and should be set
> to? Thanks again.