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dvd resolution compared to monitor resolution

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Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 29, 2004 4:02:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Hi - Can someone please explain the resolution at which commercial DVDs are
displayed in programs such as Power DVD and how they can display such a high
resolution and quality independent of the monitor resolution?

DVD films are displayed with great clarity, yet I cannot obtain anything
like such a clear image by connecting an analogue camera or digital camera
to my pc.

If I use an expensive panasonic analogue camera via a Win TV capture card,
the image of the camera scene displayed on the monitor leaves much to be
desired.

Similarly, if I connect an expensive sony cam corder via firewire, the image
on the monitor still leaves much to be desired.

Flat screen monitor Flatron L1510S
RADEON 7000 adapter
Windows xp

Yours faithfully,


John Aidiniantz
www.londoncctv.com
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 29, 2004 4:02:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Socrates wrote:
> Hi - Can someone please explain the resolution at which commercial DVDs are
> displayed in programs such as Power DVD and how they can display such a high
> resolution and quality independent of the monitor resolution?

Standard DVD resolution is 720x480 in NTSC land.


> DVD films are displayed with great clarity, yet I cannot obtain anything
> like such a clear image by connecting an analogue camera or digital camera
> to my pc.

Well first of all you're comparing film to video. But more
importantly, what did your cameras cost? (Hint: There's a reason why
cameras used to film hollywood movies are more expensive than consumer
equipment)


-WD
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 29, 2004 4:02:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

> If I use an expensive panasonic analogue camera via a Win TV capture card,
> the image of the camera scene displayed on the monitor leaves much to be
> desired.
>
> Similarly, if I connect an expensive sony cam corder via firewire, the image
> on the monitor still leaves much to be desired.

See www.bealecorner.com -> Sony TRV section for information re: some
of the lower-end high-quality DV camcorders that can make high-quality
DVD videos. Also, if you move up to 3CCD camcorders of high quality
(eg. Canon XL series; HiDef DV camcorders; etc.), then you'll be able to
produce DVDs of high quality.

The key here is to light and setup the entire set just like an actual
film production -- lots of light, good placement of lighting, etc. to
give the camcorder sensors the best image to work with. You can achieve
very high quality DVDs with 'affordable' high-end equipment, but you
have to produce one with equally high quality standards to get there.

www.dv.com forums for more...
Related resources
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 29, 2004 5:46:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Socrates" <londonlinks-at-@post.com> wrote in message
news:ceap0k$i1l$1@titan.btinternet.com...

> Hi - Can someone please explain the resolution at which commercial DVDs
are
> displayed in programs such as Power DVD and how they can display such a
high
> resolution and quality independent of the monitor resolution?
>
> DVD films are displayed with great clarity, yet I cannot obtain anything
> like such a clear image by connecting an analogue camera or digital camera
> to my pc.
>
> If I use an expensive panasonic analogue camera via a Win TV capture card,
> the image of the camera scene displayed on the monitor leaves much to be
> desired.
>
> Similarly, if I connect an expensive sony cam corder via firewire, the
image
> on the monitor still leaves much to be desired.

OK using avicodec to analyse a camcorder dv capture:

Video : 725 MB, 3778 Kbps, 25.0 fps, 720*576 (4:3), dvsd = Sony
Digital Video, Supported

..... and an uncompressed vob extract direct from a dvd:

Video : 731 MB, 5500 Kbps, 25.0 fps, 720*576 (2.21:1), MPG2 = MPEG 2
(SVCD/DVD), Supported

Looks like they are the same resolution at 720x576.

I would put the quality down to the fact that hollywood can afford *very*
expensive cameras and post processing equipment with quality you can only
dream about, wheras your basic camcorder is built to a limited budget.
There is more to image quality than pixels.
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 29, 2004 7:21:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Is the issue the software app you are using to display the video
stream from your camera? Its been a long time since I've looked at
analog in but even with DV in over firewire, many program's preview
screens are not that sharp. I think they are only roughly decoding the
image. For example the preview you get in MS Movie Maker isnt too hot.
On the other hand Premiere Pro shows an extremely sharp view of what
the camera is seeing. In both cases the video actually recorded to the
computer is full resolution. Its just that the preview window is not
showing the full resolution image in some editors Similarly Windows
Media Player doesnt show a DV avi file in full resolution when you
play it back. It's only when you get to the final delivery codec, such
as the MPEG-2 based DVD, that you see the full resolution--even though
its more heavily compressed than the DV avi, it looks sharper.

So if you mean that when you hook up your camera to the computer and
view what is coming in the lens (or off tape) it doesnt look too
sharp, then I think your preview app is not showing full resolution.
Try capturing/transferring the file and then rendering it out in a
publishing codec such as high bitrate MPEG-2. Then you will see what
you actually have.

Of course video on your PC is not going to look the same as video on
your TV. Compare a rendered video that you made on your PC to a DVD
played on that PC.


> DVD films are displayed with great clarity, yet I cannot obtain anything
> like such a clear image by connecting an analogue camera or digital camera
> to my pc.
>
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 29, 2004 7:48:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Well first of all you're comparing film to video. But more
importantly, what did your cameras cost? (Hint: There's a reason why
cameras used to film hollywood movies are more expensive than consumer
equipment)

Hi - Sorry - I was referring to DVD discs which display very clearly on my
monitor.

I can't however get anywhere near the same quality if I plug my sony digital
camera into my pc and simply view the canera scene on my monitor.

Details in the background can't easily be seen because of the pixelation -
and quite simply the level of detail is not available as it is with DVD
discs. I don't think the problem is connected with the resolution as the
Sony TR900e is presumably a high-end digital camorder.

I am looking to find a way of getting a really sharp view of the camera
scene on the pc screen - something aking to looking through the viewfinder
of any ordinary camera which does not have the artifacts that one sees on a
pc screen. I will then be able to take timed snap shots of the pc screen for
cctv purposes.

Yours faithfully,


John Aidiniantz
www.londoncctv.com


"Will Dormann" <wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:eqOdnQuqzrqpbpXcRVn-oQ@comcast.com...
> Socrates wrote:
> > Hi - Can someone please explain the resolution at which commercial DVDs
are
> > displayed in programs such as Power DVD and how they can display such a
high
> > resolution and quality independent of the monitor resolution?
>
> Standard DVD resolution is 720x480 in NTSC land.
>
>
> > DVD films are displayed with great clarity, yet I cannot obtain anything
> > like such a clear image by connecting an analogue camera or digital
camera
> > to my pc.
>
> Well first of all you're comparing film to video. But more
> importantly, what did your cameras cost? (Hint: There's a reason why
> cameras used to film hollywood movies are more expensive than consumer
> equipment)
>
>
> -WD
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 29, 2004 7:56:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

There's nothing i like more than finding a love letter from "Socrates"
<londonlinks-at-@post.com>:

>Hi - Can someone please explain the resolution at which commercial DVDs are
>displayed in programs such as Power DVD and how they can display such a high
>resolution and quality independent of the monitor resolution?

I imagine the issues you are having are to do with interlacing, this
makes your imported clips look nasty on a computer monitor, but good
again when played through an interlaced source (i.e. TV set).

--
Also available in white
How's my posting?
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 29, 2004 9:26:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Socrates" <londonlinks-at-@post.com> wrote in message
news:ceb688$6uc$1@titan.btinternet.com...

> I can't however get anywhere near the same quality if I plug my sony digital
> camera into my pc and simply view the canera scene on my monitor.

I assume you are using firewire (not just usb)?
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 29, 2004 10:47:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Adrian Boliston wrote:

>> [Why 720×480 on a commercial DVD looks so much better when
>> compared to the 720×480 pixel DV images captured from your
>> camcorder.]

> I would put the quality down to the fact that hollywood can afford
> *very* expensive cameras and post processing equipment with quality
> you can only dream about, wheras your basic camcorder is built to a
> limited budget. There is more to image quality than pixels.

Lighting can also play a very important role.

Home video is often shot using whatever light there was readily
available on the scene. Movie scenes, however - even those which
look dark and those which look like they were shot using normal
daylight - are usually carefully lit.

--
znark
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 29, 2004 10:54:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

> Hollywood movies on DVD's do not suffer about this problem since they have
been sourced from film, which has progressive (non-interlaced) frames.

Hi - the Sony TRV900E can be put into progressive scan mode, but the camera
scene still lacks clarity on the pc monitor even if it is not recording but
simply plugged in; wheras the Hollywood films displayed in the PowerDVD
window are clear - no interlacing problems and there is clarity even in the
background details.

There is more to this anomally than meets the eye!

The pc monitor is capable of displaying clear quality DVD recordings within
the PowerDVD program window, yet not when I simply view the camera scene via
an analogue camera (Win tv capture card) or a digital camera via (d-link
firewire card).

I would be pleased just to be able to display the camera scene clearly on
the monitor without actually recording any frames.

Even looking at small title text in power dvd in a frozen frame is very
clear so this might mean that the problem lies with the capture cards
technology - some compression or degradation is produced by the capture card
or d-link firewire card- or it might be due to the fact (as has been pointed
out) that unless a camera is up to 'Hollywood' standard, one should not
expect much from a consumer-quality video camera.

Yours faithfully,


John Aidiniantz
www.londonctv.com


"David Chien" <chiendh@uci.edu> wrote in message
news:cebai9$73o$1@news.service.uci.edu...
> > If I use an expensive panasonic analogue camera via a Win TV capture
card,
> > the image of the camera scene displayed on the monitor leaves much to be
> > desired.
> >
> > Similarly, if I connect an expensive sony cam corder via firewire, the
image
> > on the monitor still leaves much to be desired.
>
> See www.bealecorner.com -> Sony TRV section for information re: some
> of the lower-end high-quality DV camcorders that can make high-quality
> DVD videos. Also, if you move up to 3CCD camcorders of high quality
> (eg. Canon XL series; HiDef DV camcorders; etc.), then you'll be able to
> produce DVDs of high quality.
>
> The key here is to light and setup the entire set just like an actual
> film production -- lots of light, good placement of lighting, etc. to
> give the camcorder sensors the best image to work with. You can achieve
> very high quality DVDs with 'affordable' high-end equipment, but you
> have to produce one with equally high quality standards to get there.
>
> www.dv.com forums for more...
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 29, 2004 11:20:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Socrates wrote:

>> Well first of all you're comparing film to video.

> Hi - Sorry - I was referring to DVD discs which display
> very clearly on my monitor.

DVD discs - commercial ones - most often originate on film.
After all, most of the DVD's on the market are Hollywood
movies, which are (usually) shot on film.

> I can't however get anywhere near the same quality if I
> plug my sony digital camera into my pc and simply view
> the canera scene on my monitor.

A normal video camera - if not one of those models that can
be specifically put into "progressive" mode - is inherently
an interlaced device. Your computer monitor, however, is
usually operating in progressive scanning mode.

Displaying interlaced video footage on a progressive scan
display device (such as on a computer monitor) is a tricky
affair. If you want to see the picture properly at all, the
software displaying it needs to be a) aware of interlacing
and b) do something about it.

Still, even if the software you use for DV video playback
_does_ something about interlacing, you can never get quite
the same quality as when displaying the same footage on a
real, interlaced scanning display device, such as on a
regular tv set.

You might want to read more about interlacing here:
<http://www.lurkertech.com/lg/fields/fields.html&gt;

Hollywood movies on DVD's do not suffer about this problem
since they have been sourced from film, which has progressive
(non-interlaced) frames.

Then again, there is nothing wrong with interlacing if you
just display your interlaced signals on an interlaced display
device - such as your regular run-of-the-mill tv set.

--
znark
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 30, 2004 3:37:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Bill Ball" <ball@tcnj.edu> wrote in message
news:71bd88d4.0407291421.5cc81197@posting.google.com...

> ...Similarly Windows
> Media Player doesnt show a DV avi file in full resolution when you
> play it back....

Ok, I have not used wmplayer for ages as I have come to realise that it is a
waste of space, however I just cannot understand why playing a standard DV
file gets this treatment? Who at Microsoft decided that a DV file should
only be played at a very limited resolution, rather than the native
resolution of the DV format? Do they hate the idea of anyone playing
anything apart from a wmv file?
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 30, 2004 4:01:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

> Hi - the Sony TRV900E can be put into progressive scan mode, but the camera
> scene still lacks clarity on the pc monitor even if it is not recording but
> simply plugged in; wheras the Hollywood films displayed in the PowerDVD
> window are clear - no interlacing problems and there is clarity even in the
> background details.

What may be happening is a combination of frame rate (different rates
on DV camcorder & monitor) and software deinterlacing of the DVD
(PowerDVD and others have sophisticated deinterlacing which can make the
DVD look really good on the monitor). The raw DV input video is simply
that, w/o post-processing to make it look any better.

You may want to try taking video shots of a resolution test target
(they have them on www.bealecorner.com -> EIA target) and see if indeed,
you are getting the highest quality video output from your DV camcorder
to the PC. If so (about 500 lines of resolution or so for DV video),
then that's as good as you're going to get. You'll probably then want
to consider moving up to a HiDef Camcorder at this point if you want
more resolution since DV will max out at 500 lines or so.
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 30, 2004 7:15:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

>Is the issue the software app you are using to display the video stream
from your camera?

Hi - and thank you for a very informative and helpful answer which could
point to a possible solution.

I am not actually recording avi clips from the video camera as this will
take up too much space for cctv purposes - what I am trying to do is to
simply capture the camera scene displayed on the monitor using an automated
screen capture utility such as Hypersnap.

I am using a Win TV capture card to convert and display the analogue signal
from the camera - but from what you say it might be that the preview window
is not of sufficient resolution. I will certainly look at Premier Pro and
see what that is all about.

Finding a way to capture clear images of the camera scene at timed intervals
is vital for cctv purposes - but no one seems to have worked on the
solution! The America's Most Wanted website www.amw.com is full of cctv
images, yet in not one of them is it possible to identify the suspect.

Yours faithfully,


John Aidiniantz
www.londoncctv.com


"Bill Ball" <ball@tcnj.edu> wrote in message
news:71bd88d4.0407291421.5cc81197@posting.google.com...
> Is the issue the software app you are using to display the video
> stream from your camera? Its been a long time since I've looked at
> analog in but even with DV in over firewire, many program's preview
> screens are not that sharp. I think they are only roughly decoding the
> image. For example the preview you get in MS Movie Maker isnt too hot.
> On the other hand Premiere Pro shows an extremely sharp view of what
> the camera is seeing. In both cases the video actually recorded to the
> computer is full resolution. Its just that the preview window is not
> showing the full resolution image in some editors Similarly Windows
> Media Player doesnt show a DV avi file in full resolution when you
> play it back. It's only when you get to the final delivery codec, such
> as the MPEG-2 based DVD, that you see the full resolution--even though
> its more heavily compressed than the DV avi, it looks sharper.
>
> So if you mean that when you hook up your camera to the computer and
> view what is coming in the lens (or off tape) it doesnt look too
> sharp, then I think your preview app is not showing full resolution.
> Try capturing/transferring the file and then rendering it out in a
> publishing codec such as high bitrate MPEG-2. Then you will see what
> you actually have.
>
> Of course video on your PC is not going to look the same as video on
> your TV. Compare a rendered video that you made on your PC to a DVD
> played on that PC.
>
>
> > DVD films are displayed with great clarity, yet I cannot obtain anything
> > like such a clear image by connecting an analogue camera or digital
camera
> > to my pc.
> >
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 31, 2004 9:55:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Premiere Pro isnt really what you are looking for. Its a sophisticated
video editing program. It just happens to have a capture utility that
displays the highest quality DV-in preview that I have seen. If you
find something simple that can display a full resolution DV-in
preview, please post it back to this list. I'd love to have something
like that also so I can more easily use my laptop on set to preview
takes as they are being set up and shot.

Bill


> from the camera - but from what you say it might be that the preview window
> is not of sufficient resolution. I will certainly look at Premier Pro and
> see what that is all about.
>
> Finding a way to capture clear images of the camera scene at timed intervals
>
!