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DVD Recorders - recording in LP mode ?

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August 13, 2004 4:25:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

I'd be interested in knowing what the picture quality is when
recording in the LP mode?
Is the quality when recording the 3, 4, or 6 hour mode the same as
recording a VHS tape in SP mode? or is it simular to recording a VHS
in LP mode?

Regards Brian
August 13, 2004 4:25:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Brian" <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote in message
news:8i2oh0pccnm1r4uhd79a8tg3mu83pnibn3@4ax.com...
> I'd be interested in knowing what the picture quality is when
> recording in the LP mode?
> Is the quality when recording the 3, 4, or 6 hour mode the same as
> recording a VHS tape in SP mode? or is it simular to recording a VHS
> in LP mode?
>
> Regards Brian

Brian,
I have tested both and in my opinion the 4 hour mode is probably equal to
the sp on a vhs, and the 1 and 2 hour mode better than a vhs, and I guess
the 6 hour mode comparable to slp mode on a vhs.
You wouldn't want to save anything of value on 6 hour mode either on vhs or
dvd, would you?
But for fitting a bunch of stuff you want to watch and erase, it's perfect.
Or if you will watch on a tiny set, also ok, but if you watch on a big set
the loss of resolution will show up.

Of course their is another difference you will notice between vhs and dvd,
that is as the quality goes down you notice artifacts except on the dvd,
they are digital artifacts, like blockiness on fast moving scenes, caused by
the compression, where on vhs, it's more of a loss of detail that is
constant and throughout the picture. It's a subtle difference but you become
used to it.

In the past when we had a bad picture, we had fuzz and snow, nowadays with
digital tv (satellite and cable) we have digital compression artifacts and
digital dropouts, but never any snow. It's the nature of the new technology.
Sort of like when we listened to analog records and after a while we heard
scratches and hiss etc... but now cd's are crystal clear but we get other
problems like skips and other music artifacts when their is a problem, so
it's not an exact comparison when comparing an analog compression to a
digital compression.

I hope this helps,
AnthonyR
Anonymous
August 13, 2004 4:25:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:25:09 +1200, Brian <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:

>I'd be interested in knowing what the picture quality is when
>recording in the LP mode?
>Is the quality when recording the 3, 4, or 6 hour mode the same as
>recording a VHS tape in SP mode? or is it simular to recording a VHS
>in LP mode?

Comparing DVD modes to VHS isn't going to end up with a perfect
match. First thing, the encoding quality and parameters differ
between machines and software. That means that at a given recording
rate, two different recorders may have quite different qualities.

Second thing, VHS analog video and DVD mpeg2 digital are quite
different formats. Lower "speeds" result in different sorts of
degradation in each format. VHS analog picks up much more noise and
loses resolution, whereas digital at lower data rates tends to lose
detail first, then if the parameters are so set, resolution. Motion
artifiacts appear in digital -- things move slower or blur, or the
image gets blockier looking, when there is more motion on screen --
which never happens with analog.

If you already had the recorder, I'd suggest trying out the
different recording qualities to see how they look to you. In any
case, how good it needs to look vs. storage space is a matter of
personal judgement.

As the others answered, one and two hour modes are above VHS
quality. Both are usually full resolution as well. The easiest way
to get a 4 hour rate is to halve the resolution of the two hour rate.
With half the video data to encode, the resulting artifacts tend to be
similar. Since VHS resolution is about half that of full DVD, at this
point you're at a pretty close match to VHS SP.

Longer recording times mean cutting motion data, resulting in more
artifacts or less detail. mpeg1 recording is another option -- that
costs resolution again (it is quarter full DVD), and the quality is
similar to VHS, with a lower frame rate. Subjectively, I think it
looks a lot worse -- due to motion artifacts and blurring -- than
lower data rate mpeg2, but it isn't a bad option if you need long
recording times.

--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/&gt;
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/&gt;
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August 13, 2004 8:25:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"AnthonyR" <toomuchspam@tolisthere.com> wrote:

>
>"Brian" <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote in message
>news:8i2oh0pccnm1r4uhd79a8tg3mu83pnibn3@4ax.com...
>> I'd be interested in knowing what the picture quality is when
>> recording in the LP mode?
>> Is the quality when recording the 3, 4, or 6 hour mode the same as
>> recording a VHS tape in SP mode? or is it simular to recording a VHS
>> in LP mode?
>>
>> Regards Brian
>
>Brian,
>I have tested both and in my opinion the 4 hour mode is probably equal to
>the sp on a vhs, and the 1 and 2 hour mode better than a vhs, and I guess
>the 6 hour mode comparable to slp mode on a vhs.
>You wouldn't want to save anything of value on 6 hour mode either on vhs or
>dvd, would you?
>But for fitting a bunch of stuff you want to watch and erase, it's perfect.
>Or if you will watch on a tiny set, also ok, but if you watch on a big set
>the loss of resolution will show up.
>
>Of course their is another difference you will notice between vhs and dvd,
>that is as the quality goes down you notice artifacts except on the dvd,
>they are digital artifacts, like blockiness on fast moving scenes, caused by
>the compression, where on vhs, it's more of a loss of detail that is
>constant and throughout the picture. It's a subtle difference but you become
>used to it.
>
>In the past when we had a bad picture, we had fuzz and snow, nowadays with
>digital tv (satellite and cable) we have digital compression artifacts and
>digital dropouts, but never any snow. It's the nature of the new technology.
>Sort of like when we listened to analog records and after a while we heard
>scratches and hiss etc... but now cd's are crystal clear but we get other
>problems like skips and other music artifacts when their is a problem, so
>it's not an exact comparison when comparing an analog compression to a
>digital compression.
>
>I hope this helps,
>AnthonyR
>
Thanks AnthonyR for the information.
At this stage I'm considering the value of DVD Recorders compared to a
VHS recorder. I'm also considering the costs of the media.
It's good to know that I can fit 4 hours on a DVD, which would be
equal to recording on a 4 hour video tape in SP. The cost of the VHS
and DVD-RW would be about the same.
Do you notice antifacts when recording in the 4 hour mode on your DVD
recorder?

Regards Brian
Anonymous
August 13, 2004 8:25:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Brian asked:

>>Do you notice antifacts when recording in the 4 hour mode on your DVD
recorder?>>

I agree with the other poster in that 4 hour DVD looks about like sp VHS,
but of course there are going to be artifacts. They are going to be worse when
there is a lot of motion, so it depends on what you are recording. I video tape
a number of lectures that are mainly talking heads and slides. I can record 6
hours of lectures onto a DVd and it looks really good, but if the speakers were
jumping around and doing cart-wheels, there would be a lot of artifacts.


Dave
http://members.tripod.com/~VideoDave
August 13, 2004 9:41:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Brian" <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1egoh0he1vg9oa97vnptnpherdtqasb0r4@4ax.com...
> >
> Thanks AnthonyR for the information.
> At this stage I'm considering the value of DVD Recorders compared to a
> VHS recorder. I'm also considering the costs of the media.
> It's good to know that I can fit 4 hours on a DVD, which would be
> equal to recording on a 4 hour video tape in SP. The cost of the VHS
> and DVD-RW would be about the same.
> Do you notice antifacts when recording in the 4 hour mode on your DVD
> recorder?
>
> Regards Brian
>
>

As the others have also replied, the motion artifacts you will see on dvd
vs. vhs are mostly on fast moving scenes and more prominent at the longer
recording times, but I personally think the 4 hour mode is acceptable for
most video.
And for something like a lecture the 6 hour mode is fine also, I hear there
was an 8 hour mode on some brand of dvd recorder but would think that's just
a marketing trick and wouldn't be used much unless done for surveillance of
something.
AnthonyR
Anonymous
August 13, 2004 9:41:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

>As the others have also replied, the motion artifacts you will see on dvd
>vs. vhs are mostly on fast moving scenes and more prominent at the longer
>recording times, but I personally think the 4 hour mode is acceptable for
>most video.
>And for something like a lecture the 6 hour mode is fine also, I hear there
>was an 8 hour mode on some brand of dvd recorder but would think that's just
>a marketing trick and wouldn't be used much unless done for surveillance of
>something.
>AnthonyR

Ok

Well I think 4 hrs would be OK with em for my "time
shifting".

Question..... can these DVD burners be set so that it
will continually record the newest show over the old
one?

Example.... say i want to time shift David Letterman
for later viewing. Its only necessary that I have the
MOST previous one....and NOT all previous ones. Can
these units re-record the newest one over the oldest
one so that a person always has the latest show?
August 14, 2004 8:27:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

<me6@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:fr1qh05gjnupqgnimnrq656aimla7hegfm@4ax.com...
> >As the others have also replied, the motion artifacts you will see on dvd
> >vs. vhs are mostly on fast moving scenes and more prominent at the longer
> >recording times, but I personally think the 4 hour mode is acceptable for
> >most video.
> >And for something like a lecture the 6 hour mode is fine also, I hear
there
> >was an 8 hour mode on some brand of dvd recorder but would think that's
just
> >a marketing trick and wouldn't be used much unless done for surveillance
of
> >something.
> >AnthonyR
>
> Ok
>
> Well I think 4 hrs would be OK with em for my "time
> shifting".
>
> Question..... can these DVD burners be set so that it
> will continually record the newest show over the old
> one?
>
> Example.... say i want to time shift David Letterman
> for later viewing. Its only necessary that I have the
> MOST previous one....and NOT all previous ones. Can
> these units re-record the newest one over the oldest
> one so that a person always has the latest show?

Hmm, interesting question, I'm not sure, the one I have is basically like a
vcr and if used with a dvd+rw disc and its timer can re-record the newer
show onto the disc until it's filled, not sure what happens after that.
Of course you can manually delete shows and record more but never tried
exactly what you asked.

It sounds to me, what you might want better is a dvd recorder with a built
in hard drive, sort of a tivo like feature
and can be set to keep 1 or 2 of the most current episodes of a particular
show.

Hope this helps,
AnthonyR
August 14, 2004 12:39:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

me6@privacy.net wrote:

> >As the others have also replied, the motion artifacts you will see on dvd
> >vs. vhs are mostly on fast moving scenes and more prominent at the longer
> >recording times, but I personally think the 4 hour mode is acceptable for
> >most video.
> >And for something like a lecture the 6 hour mode is fine also, I hear there
> >was an 8 hour mode on some brand of dvd recorder but would think that's just
> >a marketing trick and wouldn't be used much unless done for surveillance of
> >something.
> >AnthonyR
>
> Ok
>
> Well I think 4 hrs would be OK with em for my "time
> shifting".
>
> Question..... can these DVD burners be set so that it
> will continually record the newest show over the old
> one?
>
> Example.... say i want to time shift David Letterman
> for later viewing. Its only necessary that I have the
> MOST previous one....and NOT all previous ones. Can
> these units re-record the newest one over the oldest
> one so that a person always has the latest show?

Can't speak for all DVD recorders, but my combo VCR/DVD Sansui VRDVD4005 records
DVD until the disk is full. You need to manually erase the disk (assuming DVD-RW)
to begin anew... no automatic erasing. You can use VR or video mode for
recording. Bear in mind too that most DVD recordings are variable bit rate
encoded so you can't say exactly that a 4 hour recording is 1/2 resolution of 2
hour recording. It depends a great deal on the material being recorded.
Letterman show (talking heads basically) might be terrific in 4 hour mode but
action movie might be terrible.

George
Anonymous
August 15, 2004 2:45:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

<< From: George steber@execpc.com
Date: Sat, Aug 14, 2004 8:39 AM >>


<< me6@privacy.net wrote: >>


<< > Question..... can these DVD burners be set so that it
> will continually record the newest show over the old
> one?
>
> Example.... say i want to time shift David Letterman
> for later viewing. Its only necessary that I have the
> MOST previous one....and NOT all previous ones. Can
> these units re-record the newest one over the oldest
> one so that a person always has the latest show?

Can't speak for all DVD recorders, but my combo VCR/DVD Sansui VRDVD4005
records
DVD until the disk is full. You need to manually erase the disk (assuming
DVD-RW)
to begin anew... no automatic erasing. You can use VR or video mode for
recording. Bear in mind too that most DVD recordings are variable bit rate
encoded so you can't say exactly that a 4 hour recording is 1/2 resolution of 2
hour recording. It depends a great deal on the material being recorded.
Letterman show (talking heads basically) might be terrific in 4 hour mode but
action movie might be terrible.

George
>>


The Panasonic DMR-HS@ has a selection form "Renwal Recording" in the timer
recording section. If that is selected for a program, the first recording of a
program is overridden by the next scheduled recording of that program. I
suspect most of the Panasonics have this feature but don't know for sure.
Look for a reference to "Renewal Recordings" on the Panasonic site.
August 15, 2004 6:30:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"FredBillie" <fredbillie@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20040815064521.16597.00002355@mb-m22.aol.com...
> << From: George steber@execpc.com
> Date: Sat, Aug 14, 2004 8:39 AM >>


> << me6@privacy.net wrote: >>


> << > Question..... can these DVD burners be set so that it
>> will continually record the newest show over the old
>> one?
>>
>> Example.... say i want to time shift David Letterman
>> for later viewing. Its only necessary that I have the
>> MOST previous one....and NOT all previous ones. Can
>> these units re-record the newest one over the oldest
>> one so that a person always has the latest show?
>
> Can't speak for all DVD recorders, but my combo VCR/DVD Sansui VRDVD4005
> records
> DVD until the disk is full. You need to manually erase the disk (assuming
> DVD-RW)
> to begin anew... no automatic erasing. You can use VR or video mode for
> recording. Bear in mind too that most DVD recordings are variable bit rate
> encoded so you can't say exactly that a 4 hour recording is 1/2 resolution
> of 2
> hour recording. It depends a great deal on the material being recorded.
> Letterman show (talking heads basically) might be terrific in 4 hour mode
> but
> action movie might be terrible.
>
> George
> >>


> The Panasonic DMR-HS@ has a selection form "Renwal Recording" in the timer
> recording section. If that is selected for a program, the first recording
> of a
> program is overridden by the next scheduled recording of that program. I
> suspect most of the Panasonics have this feature but don't know for sure.
> Look for a reference to "Renewal Recordings" on the Panasonic site.

I am curious, that feature you talk about, I guess it's only available on
DVD-RAM? Right?
Well, it must be anyway cause a DVD-R isn't rewritable and I think the
Panasonic use the DVD-RAM disc for
the re-writable features.
Anonymous
August 16, 2004 1:37:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

<< > The Panasonic DMR-HS2 has a selection form "Renwal Recording" in the timer
> recording section. If that is selected for a program, the first recording
> of a
> program is overridden by the next scheduled recording of that program. I
> suspect most of the Panasonics have this feature but don't know for sure.
> Look for a reference to "Renewal Recordings" on the Panasonic site.

I am curious, that feature you talk about, I guess it's only available on
DVD-RAM? Right?
Well, it must be anyway cause a DVD-R isn't rewritable and I think the
Panasonic use the DVD-RAM disc for
the re-writable features.
>>


The renewal feature is available on DVD-Ram and the Hard drive.
August 17, 2004 8:48:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"FredBillie" <fredbillie@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20040816053739.06859.00003228@mb-m13.aol.com...
> << > The Panasonic DMR-HS2 has a selection form "Renwal Recording" in the
> timer
>> recording section. If that is selected for a program, the first recording
>> of a
>> program is overridden by the next scheduled recording of that program. I
>> suspect most of the Panasonics have this feature but don't know for sure.
>> Look for a reference to "Renewal Recordings" on the Panasonic site.
>
> I am curious, that feature you talk about, I guess it's only available on
> DVD-RAM? Right?
> Well, it must be anyway cause a DVD-R isn't rewritable and I think the
> Panasonic use the DVD-RAM disc for
> the re-writable features.
> >>


> The renewal feature is available on DVD-Ram and the Hard drive.
>

Thanks for the confirmation.
AnthonyR
!