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Frame resizing

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Anonymous
August 22, 2004 1:44:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

I have a proffessionally made DVD of an event which has frames sized 352x576
..( I assume in order to fit the event on the disk)
I have abstracted a small section which I wish to edit.I have made a DivX
file which Premier Pro seems happy to accept and edit.But how do I change
the frame to remove the squashing?
Help please.
Reg Beckley

More about : frame resizing

Anonymous
August 23, 2004 1:07:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

reginald beckley wrote:

> I have a proffessionally made DVD of an event which has
> frames sized 352x576 .( I assume in order to fit the
> event on the disk) I have abstracted a small section
> which I wish to edit.I have made a DivX file which
> Premier Pro seems happy to accept and edit.But how do
> I change the frame to remove the squashing? Help please.

See <http://www.iki.fi/znark/video/conversion/&gt;.

--
znark
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 1:07:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Jukka Aho" <jukka.aho@iki.fi> wrote in message
news:cgancp$nbv$1@plaza.suomi.net...
> reginald beckley wrote:
>
> > I have a proffessionally made DVD of an event which has
> > frames sized 352x576 .( I assume in order to fit the
> > event on the disk) I have abstracted a small section
> > which I wish to edit.I have made a DivX file which
> > Premier Pro seems happy to accept and edit.But how do
> > I change the frame to remove the squashing? Help please.
>
> See <http://www.iki.fi/znark/video/conversion/&gt;.
>
> --
> znark
> Thanks for the reply but I think I havn't asked the correct question.I
have another encoder ,Honest Technology,which will remove the squashing by
say converting to 352x240 ,however as an Mpeg file with loss of quality.
But I can't get Premier Pro to export and resize to remove the squashing.So
I am either doing something wrong in Premier Pro or it is not possible.As an
addendum I can't get Premier to do it with a "real" AVI files.
Reg Beckley
Related resources
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 4:47:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

reginald beckley wrote:

>>> I have a proffessionally made DVD of an event which has
>>> frames sized 352x576 .( I assume in order to fit the
>>> event on the disk) I have abstracted a small section
>>> which I wish to edit.I have made a DivX file which
>>> Premier Pro seems happy to accept and edit.But how do
>>> I change the frame to remove the squashing? Help please.

>> See <http://www.iki.fi/znark/video/conversion/&gt;.

> Thanks for the reply but I think I havn't asked the correct
> question. I have another encoder ,Honest Technology, which
> will remove the squashing by say converting to 352x240,
> however as an Mpeg file with loss of quality.

Depends on what you mean by "removing the squashing" and what
is your intended target format. Note that 352×240 is still
somewhat "squashed" if you compare that to the square pixels
on your computer screen (the pixel aspect ratio is not 1/1),
so the "squashing" was not exactly removed by that maneuver.

If you would like to convert the 352×576 clips to square
pixels, the ideal resolution to convert to (in order to
retain the aspect ratio) would be either 385×288 or
770×576 - depending on whether you want to keep the
full vertical resolution (and, possibly, the interlaced
scanning structure of the original clips) or not.

However, after scaling/resampling, you would still need
to add black bars to the sides in order to accommodate to
the size restrictions imposed by the common video codecs
(sometimes they require the dimensions must be multiples
of 2, sometimes multiples of 4, sometimes multiples of 8,
sometimes multiples of 16. It depends on the target
codec/format.)

It would be useful to know the target format / end purpose
of the material. Are you only going to display the converted
clips on the computer? Do you intend to record them on VHS
or make a new DVD out of them? Is your intended target format
a video CD? Something else? Is the material interlaced or not?

> But I can't get Premier Pro to export and resize to remove
> the squashing.

At least on the older Premiere versions (the non-Pro ones)
the output format was defined in the Export Movie Settings
window. See:

<http://www.3ivx.com/support/windows/encoding/images/
premiere_export_video_setti.jpg>

Premiere Pro seems to have a fairly similar settings window:
<http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/images/ho...
premiere-export.gif>

--
znark
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 2:36:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Jukka Aho" <jukka.aho@iki.fi> wrote in message
news:cgb49m$qos$1@plaza.suomi.net...
> reginald beckley wrote:
>
> >>> I have a proffessionally made DVD of an event which has
> >>> frames sized 352x576 .( I assume in order to fit the
> >>> event on the disk) I have abstracted a small section
> >>> which I wish to edit.I have made a DivX file which
> >>> Premier Pro seems happy to accept and edit.But how do
> >>> I change the frame to remove the squashing? Help please.
>
> >> See <http://www.iki.fi/znark/video/conversion/&gt;.
> Snip
>
> Depends on what you mean by "removing the squashing" and what
> is your intended target format. Note that 352×240 is still
> somewhat "squashed" if you compare that to the square pixels
> on your computer screen (the pixel aspect ratio is not 1/1),
> so the "squashing" was not exactly removed by that maneuver.
>
> If you would like to convert the 352×576 clips to square
> pixels, the ideal resolution to convert to (in order to
> retain the aspect ratio) would be either 385×288 or
> 770×576 - depending on whether you want to keep the
> full vertical resolution (and, possibly, the interlaced
> scanning structure of the original clips) or not.
>
> However, after scaling/resampling, you would still need
> to add black bars to the sides in order to accommodate to
> the size restrictions imposed by the common video codecs
> (sometimes they require the dimensions must be multiples
> of 2, sometimes multiples of 4, sometimes multiples of 8,
> sometimes multiples of 16. It depends on the target
> codec/format.)
>
> It would be useful to know the target format / end purpose
> of the material. Are you only going to display the converted
> clips on the computer? Do you intend to record them on VHS
> or make a new DVD out of them? Is your intended target format
> a video CD? Something else? Is the material interlaced or not?
>
> > But I can't get Premier Pro to export and resize to remove
> > the squashing.
>
> At least on the older Premiere versions (the non-Pro ones)
> the output format was defined in the Export Movie Settings
> window. See:
>
> <http://www.3ivx.com/support/windows/encoding/images/
> premiere_export_video_setti.jpg>
>
> Premiere Pro seems to have a fairly similar settings window:
> <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/images/ho...
> premiere-export.gif>
>
> --
> znark
> I am baffled.The clip size of 352x576 is compressed spatially in the x
direction and can be played on a DivX player expanded to a 4;3 aspect ratio
to give a "normal" picture.
My objective is record the clip on a DVD after editing in Premier Pro but I
am attempting to resize it to a nominal 4:3 frame .I have used Premier Pro
Export Movie using many variations of the frame size setting ,none of which
appears to achieve the desired result.I thought it might be because the clip
is DivX compressed so is not "true" AVI file but I don't get any sensible
result with a "true" AVI file.
Reg Beckley
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 6:08:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

reginald beckley wrote:

> I am baffled. The clip size of 352x576 is compressed spatially
> in the x direction and can be played on a DivX player expanded
> to a 4;3 aspect ratio to give a "normal" picture.

Likewise, a 352×240 clip (which you mentioned in one of your
earlier posts in relation to the "Honest Technology" encoder)
is not in a correct shape: it is elongated spatially in the
x direction if you view the clip with a video player (or some
other software tool, such as a video editor) which displays
the movie pixels with a 1:1 mapping to the screen pixels.

Note that the full "PAL" DVD resolution (720×576), too, is
somewhat compressed in the x direction if viewed using 1:1
mapping to the square pixels on the computer screen.

Most practical digital video formats are just like that; they
store the pictures in a format where the area represented by
each of the individual pixels is rectangular, not square.

> My objective is record the clip on a DVD after editing in
> Premier Pro but I am attempting to resize it to a nominal
> 4:3 frame.

352×576 _is_ a nominal 4:3 frame. 720×576, too, is a nominal
4:3 frame. 704×576 is a nominal 4:3 frame. 352×288 is also a
nominal 4:3 frame. The DVD standard supports all these
resolutions and it does not discriminate between them - none
of these resolutions is "the" nominal 4:3 DVD resolution.

To add to the confusion, all these resolutions can also be
used for 16:9 material just as well. :) 

The shape of the picture is defined by how the MPEG-2 stream
is flagged - not by how many pixels there are in the vertical
and the horizontal direction - and the DVD player reads these
flags and acts accordingly.

* * *

Anyhow, Premiere Pro should support editing the clips directly
in their native resolution - 352×576 - or it does not deserve
the "Pro" addition to its name.

Even though PPro might not necessarily have a template for this
resolution, you should be able to create one yourself and key
in the pixel aspect ratio somewhere (which is 256/117 for the
352×576 format.) After having done that, the monitor window
should display previews in the correct aspect ratio.

* * *

There apperas to be a Pixel Aspect Ratio listbox in the Project
Settings:

<http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/avtechbeta/image...
newprojectCustomGenera.gif>

I am not sure if Premiere Pro lets you define a custom Pixel
Aspect Ratio directly in that window, but at least the earlier
versions stored the PAR in the project template files, where
it could be manually edited.

* * *

It would be easier to offer more specific advice if it was known
whether you want to edit in pieces of some other video clips
(which are, perhaps, in some other resolution), and whether
the original 352×576 clip (or the other clips) would form the
bulk of the final, edited clip.

If you are going to use the 352×576 clip as a basis for all your
work (and if there is relatively little or no footage in other
any other resolution), then it would be reasonable to keep the
project in its native 352×576 resolution all the way, and burn
it to the DVD in that format. If, however, there are lots of
segments in some other resolution, the it would be more
reasonable to set the target format to that resolution.

Additionally, even if a conversion to another resolution is
absolutely required, DivX is not a good intermediate format.
There should usually be no need for conversions to intermediate
formats at all, and even if there is, DivX should be avoided.

* * *

Also note that if the project only involves simple cut-only
editing of the original file (with no transitions or other
additions), you could do it in a totally lossless way, using
some MPEG-2 oriented editor. For example, TMPGEnc contains a
simple built-in MPEG-2 clipping tool which can be used for
removing segments of video or for merging two clips together,
without touching the original picture content or recompressing
at all.

There are also more advanced MPEG-2 editors which can be used
for basic editing, and which try to retain as much of the video
in its original (non-recompressed) form as possible.

* * *

Finally, if everything else fails and you just want to resize
the video (no matter what!) try VirtualDubMod:

<http://virtualdubmod.sourceforge.net/&gt;

Also see the web site of the original VirtualDub which will
give more pointers and hints as to how to use the program:

<http://www.virtualdub.org/&gt;

--
znark
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 8:34:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 22:36:57 +0100, "reginald beckley"
<hrb@regbeckley.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>My objective is record the clip on a DVD after editing in Premier Pro but I
>am attempting to resize it to a nominal 4:3 frame .

Encode it again as mpeg-2, and your 352x576 clip shall look perfectly
normal, because mpeg-2 supports interlaced.

Now, I would not have converted to DivX in the first place, but to
Huffyuv, which is a lossless codec.

Besides, I assume by "editing" you mean something other than just
trimming parts of the clip -otherwise, you could have done this on the
DVD material itself without any need to resort (& re-encode) to AVI.

>I have used Premier Pro
>Export Movie using many variations of the frame size setting ,none of which
>appears to achieve the desired result.

mpeg-2 352x576 looks like 704x576.

AVI (any) 352x576 looks like... well, 352x576. To get the original
aspect, you would need to encode your AVI like 704x576 (doubling the
size of the file with a speculative resolution) or 352x288 (half the
vertical resolution of your original material, and thus a less defined
image). So the best, of course, is getting back to the original: a
352x576 mpeg-2.

>I thought it might be because the clip
>is DivX compressed so is not "true" AVI file

AVI is a file format for audio+video. DivX is a way to compress the
video part. There are many ways to compress the video part of an AVI
file. A DivX AVI is a 100% true AVI.
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 2:06:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Jukka Aho" <jukka.aho@iki.fi> wrote in message
news:cgdtdv$jua$1@plaza.suomi.net...
> reginald beckley wrote:
>
> > I am baffled. The clip size of 352x576 is compressed spatially
> > in the x direction and can be played on a DivX player expanded
> > to a 4;3 aspect ratio to give a "normal" picture.
> Snip
> * * *

>
> Finally, if everything else fails and you just want to resize
> the video (no matter what!) try VirtualDubMod:
>
> <http://virtualdubmod.sourceforge.net/&gt;
>
> Also see the web site of the original VirtualDub which will
> give more pointers and hints as to how to use the program:
>
> <http://www.virtualdub.org/&gt;
>
> --
> znark
> Thanks for continuing to follow my somewhat tortuous meanderings.As you
advise for most of which I am attempting to achieve,some simple transition
insertion and a bit of trimming, then staying in the original format and an
Mpeg editor will be best.But I was attempting to do some Rotoscoping on some
short segments.Womble MPEg gives some sort of facilty but of course working
in MPEG with cutting and inserting frames produces uncertain and usually
corrupted results.
Is there a fool proof convertor of Mpeg clips to uncompressed AVI so that I
can use an NLE like Premier or is that a nonsensical request? I have DVD2AVI
and WinAVI neither of which seem to work unless I allow the use of DIVX
codecs.
Reg Beckley
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 2:06:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

reginald beckley wrote:
> "Jukka Aho" <jukka.aho@iki.fi> wrote in message
> news:cgdtdv$jua$1@plaza.suomi.net...
>> reginald beckley wrote:
>>
>>> I am baffled. The clip size of 352x576 is compressed spatially
>>> in the x direction and can be played on a DivX player expanded
>>> to a 4;3 aspect ratio to give a "normal" picture.
>> Snip
>> * * *
>
>>
>> Finally, if everything else fails and you just want to resize
>> the video (no matter what!) try VirtualDubMod:
>>
>> <http://virtualdubmod.sourceforge.net/&gt;
>>
>> Also see the web site of the original VirtualDub which will
>> give more pointers and hints as to how to use the program:
>>
>> <http://www.virtualdub.org/&gt;
>>
>> --
>> znark
>> Thanks for continuing to follow my somewhat tortuous meanderings.As
>> you
> advise for most of which I am attempting to achieve,some simple
> transition insertion and a bit of trimming, then staying in the
> original format and an Mpeg editor will be best.But I was attempting
> to do some Rotoscoping on some short segments.Womble MPEg gives some
> sort of facilty but of course working in MPEG with cutting and
> inserting frames produces uncertain and usually corrupted results.
> Is there a fool proof convertor of Mpeg clips to uncompressed AVI so
> that I can use an NLE like Premier or is that a nonsensical request?
> I have DVD2AVI and WinAVI neither of which seem to work unless I
> allow the use of DIVX codecs.
> Reg Beckley


Grab VirtualDubMOd at
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=6....
It should do what you want (and probably more). I just tried it with an AC3
encoded .vob file and it read it just fine, including decoding the AC3
stream.

Mike
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 4:52:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

reginald beckley wrote:

> Is there a fool proof convertor of Mpeg clips to
> uncompressed AVI so that I can use an NLE like
> Premier or is that a nonsensical request?

You can use VirtualDubMod (which I mentioned and linked to
in my previous message) for that purpose, too (as well as
for rotating and resizing, if you like.)

Depending on the length of the clip you want to process,
you might want to install and use HuffYUV and/or AlparySoft
Lossless Codec, instead of using uncompressed format.

See <http://neuron2.net/www.math.berkeley.edu/benrg/huffyuv....;
and <http://www.alparysoft.com/prod/compression/&gt;.

--
znark
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 2:38:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

THANKS ALL.I THINK I'VE CRACKED IT!
Reg Beckley
!