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Snapstream BTV DVR vs. TiVo

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August 31, 2004 3:05:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

After being a devoted TiVo user for a couple of years, I decided to build a
PC-based DVR using the Snapstream BTV bundle with Firefly remote. Full
details can be found here:

http://tinyurl.com/4m7w3

Just want to list some more pros and cons of the BTV option. In no
particular order:

1) When you are watching live TV with BTV, and you decide you want to
record the show, BTV seems like it automatically discards the previously
recorded buffer, and you only get the part from hitting the record button
forward. TiVo gives you the option to include the buffer portion with your
saved recording.

2) With my setup, I can't have the TV and computer monitor on at the same
time, or at least I don't know how to do this (Keith Clark, any tips here?).
If the computer boots up with the monitor attached, then after a few seconds
of the TV being active, it switches over to the monitor full-time. No
amount of playing with XP's options for dual screens has changed this. I
find this annoying because the BTV software setup seems to require you to
boot into the XP welcome screen since a Snapstream .NET account is created,
and the only way I know to make XP boot directly into the desktop is to have
only one user account (Keith Clark, any tips on this?) Booting into the
Welcome screen means the Firefly remote is not active yet, so you still have
to keyboard/mouse things a bit.

3) Having the mouse pointer in the middle of the video screen is not great.
I know I can move it over, but I would like it to disappear UNLESS I move it
or touch the keyboard.

4) My Firefly remote causes video interference on channel 59 which gets
recorded onto the hard drive. I have a trouble ticket open with Snapstream,
and I will see what they say.

5) I recorded several hours of video last night, and the audio sync went
out on the live TV. Luckily the recorded shows seem fine, but this is a
pretty big bug unless I did something wrong.

6) The Firefly remote doesn't support other devices since it is not
infra-red based.

7) The DVR computer is bigger, slightly louder, and uses more electricity
than my TiVo which can be a real issue for some.

8) BTV is a very capable system and is a great, inexpensive choice for
someone who already has a computer to host the bundle. No loss of privacy,
tremendous flexibility, and some really cool features like streaming over IP
that I haven't even tried yet. The software will probably improve rapidly,
and TiVo had better watch out.

In general though, if you are mostly just going to watch TV vs. doing a lot
of editing of the shows, I still find TiVo to be very superior. I am not
surprised that people who don't own a TiVo will love their BTV, but that
doesn't change my opinion that TiVo just works better for recording and
watching TV.
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 5:59:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:05:17 -0400, No@Email.com suggested:
:
: 3) Having the mouse pointer in the middle of the video screen is not great.
: I know I can move it over, but I would like it to disappear UNLESS I move it
: or touch the keyboard.

In my experience, it does disappear.

: 7) The DVR computer is bigger, slightly louder, and uses more electricity
: than my TiVo which can be a real issue for some.

Not to mention the expense. A TiVo with a lifetime subscription costs
quite a bit less than a properly built HTPC.

--
agreenbu @ nyx . net andrew michael greenburg
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 5:59:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

andrewunix wrote:

> Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:05:17 -0400, No@Email.com suggested:
> :
> : 3) Having the mouse pointer in the middle of the video screen is not great.
> : I know I can move it over, but I would like it to disappear UNLESS I move it
> : or touch the keyboard.
>
> In my experience, it does disappear.
>

I just use the Firefly to move it out of the way when I first boot up the machine
and then it's a non issue.


>
> : 7) The DVR computer is bigger, slightly louder, and uses more electricity
> : than my TiVo which can be a real issue for some.
>
> Not to mention the expense. A TiVo with a lifetime subscription costs
> quite a bit less than a properly built HTPC.

My DVR is quieter than the clocks on the wall. I can hear the ticking of the two
clocks before I hear any noise from the DVR. I've literally fallen asleep on the
sofa while stuff was recording and when I woke up the only way I knew it was still
recording was by seeing the blue led on the case blink intermittently.
Related resources
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 8:34:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Al wrote:

>
>
> 1) When you are watching live TV with BTV, and you decide you want to
> record the show, BTV seems like it automatically discards the previously
> recorded buffer, and you only get the part from hitting the record button
> forward. TiVo gives you the option to include the buffer portion with your
> saved recording.

That's a hotly discussed topic in the beta test group. In my experience,
Snapstream listens to users, so I expect they'll have that functionality
eventually. It'd be nice to see it in 3.5 but I won't hold my breath.

>
>
> 2) With my setup, I can't have the TV and computer monitor on at the same
> time, or at least I don't know how to do this (Keith Clark, any tips here?).
> If the computer boots up with the monitor attached, then after a few seconds
> of the TV being active, it switches over to the monitor full-time. No
> amount of playing with XP's options for dual screens has changed this. I
> find this annoying because the BTV software setup seems to require you to
> boot into the XP welcome screen since a Snapstream .NET account is created,
> and the only way I know to make XP boot directly into the desktop is to have
> only one user account (Keith Clark, any tips on this?) Booting into the
> Welcome screen means the Firefly remote is not active yet, so you still have
> to keyboard/mouse things a bit.

Right - my DVR is a dedicated machine intended for family use in the living room
with a remote control, only for watching TV, listening to music (I ripped every
CD we've ever had to the hard drive), and looking at pictures, not email or
games or office stuff, so a single user account and auto-login wasn't an issue.

I use VNC (www.realvnc.com) to remotely do the more advanced things like defrag,
run Windows update, etc.

To use TV and computer CRT at the same time requires setting an option in your
video card's driver. With most current ones it should be possible.

In my case the DVR is *only* connected to a TV *or* a monitor, never both. The
only times it was ever hooked to a monitor was when I was first installing
everything and when I installed SP2 - the rest of these months it's been running
24x7 in the living room connected to the TV.
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 11:39:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:05:17 -0400, "Al" <No@Email.com> wrote:

>After being a devoted TiVo user for a couple of years, I decided to build a
>PC-based DVR using the Snapstream BTV bundle with Firefly remote. Full
>details can be found here:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/4m7w3
>
>Just want to list some more pros and cons of the BTV option. In no
>particular order:
>
>1) When you are watching live TV with BTV, and you decide you want to
>record the show, BTV seems like it automatically discards the previously
>recorded buffer, and you only get the part from hitting the record button
>forward. TiVo gives you the option to include the buffer portion with your
>saved recording.
>
>2) With my setup, I can't have the TV and computer monitor on at the same
>time, or at least I don't know how to do this (Keith Clark, any tips here?).
>If the computer boots up with the monitor attached, then after a few seconds
>of the TV being active, it switches over to the monitor full-time. No
>amount of playing with XP's options for dual screens has changed this. I
>find this annoying because the BTV software setup seems to require you to
>boot into the XP welcome screen since a Snapstream .NET account is created,
>and the only way I know to make XP boot directly into the desktop is to have
>only one user account (Keith Clark, any tips on this?) Booting into the
>Welcome screen means the Firefly remote is not active yet, so you still have
>to keyboard/mouse things a bit.
>
>3) Having the mouse pointer in the middle of the video screen is not great.
>I know I can move it over, but I would like it to disappear UNLESS I move it
>or touch the keyboard.
>
>4) My Firefly remote causes video interference on channel 59 which gets
>recorded onto the hard drive. I have a trouble ticket open with Snapstream,
>and I will see what they say.
>
>5) I recorded several hours of video last night, and the audio sync went
>out on the live TV. Luckily the recorded shows seem fine, but this is a
>pretty big bug unless I did something wrong.
>
>6) The Firefly remote doesn't support other devices since it is not
>infra-red based.
>
>7) The DVR computer is bigger, slightly louder, and uses more electricity
>than my TiVo which can be a real issue for some.
>
>8) BTV is a very capable system and is a great, inexpensive choice for
>someone who already has a computer to host the bundle. No loss of privacy,
>tremendous flexibility, and some really cool features like streaming over IP
>that I haven't even tried yet. The software will probably improve rapidly,
>and TiVo had better watch out.
>
>In general though, if you are mostly just going to watch TV vs. doing a lot
>of editing of the shows, I still find TiVo to be very superior. I am not
>surprised that people who don't own a TiVo will love their BTV, but that
>doesn't change my opinion that TiVo just works better for recording and
>watching TV.
>

BTV is in Beta testing for version 3.5 right now... when the 3.5
version is released it will be based on a completely different engine
then what is currently being sold....
I have license for BTV but had trouble with the 3.4 version so I
switched to Sage TV... Sage TV is also and excellent product... I have
not had any problems with Sage and the audio is better..
I will try BTV again once the 3.5 version is complete... when BTV 3.4
was working for me I found it to be very good ...
Glenn M


Glenn M
A GREAT DAY FOR FREEDOM...Pink Floyd
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 11:39:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Glenn M wrote:

> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:05:17 -0400, "Al" <No@Email.com> wrote:
>
> >After being a devoted TiVo user for a couple of years, I decided to build a
> >PC-based DVR using the Snapstream BTV bundle with Firefly remote. Full
> >details can be found here:
> >
> >http://tinyurl.com/4m7w3
> >
> >Just want to list some more pros and cons of the BTV option. In no
> >particular order:
> >
> >1) When you are watching live TV with BTV, and you decide you want to
> >record the show, BTV seems like it automatically discards the previously
> >recorded buffer, and you only get the part from hitting the record button
> >forward. TiVo gives you the option to include the buffer portion with your
> >saved recording.
> >
> >2) With my setup, I can't have the TV and computer monitor on at the same
> >time, or at least I don't know how to do this (Keith Clark, any tips here?).
> >If the computer boots up with the monitor attached, then after a few seconds
> >of the TV being active, it switches over to the monitor full-time. No
> >amount of playing with XP's options for dual screens has changed this. I
> >find this annoying because the BTV software setup seems to require you to
> >boot into the XP welcome screen since a Snapstream .NET account is created,
> >and the only way I know to make XP boot directly into the desktop is to have
> >only one user account (Keith Clark, any tips on this?) Booting into the
> >Welcome screen means the Firefly remote is not active yet, so you still have
> >to keyboard/mouse things a bit.
> >
> >3) Having the mouse pointer in the middle of the video screen is not great.
> >I know I can move it over, but I would like it to disappear UNLESS I move it
> >or touch the keyboard.
> >
> >4) My Firefly remote causes video interference on channel 59 which gets
> >recorded onto the hard drive. I have a trouble ticket open with Snapstream,
> >and I will see what they say.
> >
> >5) I recorded several hours of video last night, and the audio sync went
> >out on the live TV. Luckily the recorded shows seem fine, but this is a
> >pretty big bug unless I did something wrong.
> >
> >6) The Firefly remote doesn't support other devices since it is not
> >infra-red based.
> >
> >7) The DVR computer is bigger, slightly louder, and uses more electricity
> >than my TiVo which can be a real issue for some.
> >
> >8) BTV is a very capable system and is a great, inexpensive choice for
> >someone who already has a computer to host the bundle. No loss of privacy,
> >tremendous flexibility, and some really cool features like streaming over IP
> >that I haven't even tried yet. The software will probably improve rapidly,
> >and TiVo had better watch out.
> >
> >In general though, if you are mostly just going to watch TV vs. doing a lot
> >of editing of the shows, I still find TiVo to be very superior. I am not
> >surprised that people who don't own a TiVo will love their BTV, but that
> >doesn't change my opinion that TiVo just works better for recording and
> >watching TV.
> >
>
> BTV is in Beta testing for version 3.5 right now... when the 3.5
> version is released it will be based on a completely different engine
> then what is currently being sold....
> I have license for BTV but had trouble with the 3.4 version so I
> switched to Sage TV... Sage TV is also and excellent product... I have
> not had any problems with Sage and the audio is better..
> I will try BTV again once the 3.5 version is complete... when BTV 3.4
> was working for me I found it to be very good ...
> Glenn M
>
> Glenn M
> A GREAT DAY FOR FREEDOM...Pink Floyd

Glenn,

Why not sign up for the beta? The more of us voicing our opinions and filing bugs
the better... If you have only one tuner card you'll find the current build
really stable.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 12:24:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

>(I ripped every
>CD we've ever had to the hard drive),

Have you also ripped all the DVD movies and copied them
to the hard drive as well?
September 1, 2004 12:34:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Keith Clark" <clarkphotography@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4134DDF1.3BC5E9FE@hotmail.com...
>
>
> andrewunix wrote:
>
> > Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:05:17 -0400, No@Email.com suggested:
> > :
> > : 7) The DVR computer is bigger, slightly louder, and uses more
electricity
> > : than my TiVo which can be a real issue for some.
> >
> > Not to mention the expense. A TiVo with a lifetime subscription costs
> > quite a bit less than a properly built HTPC.
>
> My DVR is quieter than the clocks on the wall. I can hear the ticking of
the two
> clocks before I hear any noise from the DVR. I've literally fallen asleep
on the
> sofa while stuff was recording and when I woke up the only way I knew it
was still
> recording was by seeing the blue led on the case blink intermittently.

My DVR is pretty quiet too thanks to the Zalman parts you recommended, but
not as quiet as my TiVo which doesn't seem to have a fan. The DVR sits
about 12 inches from my right elbow, so it's pretty easy to hear the noise
it does make. If it was across the room, I probably wouldn't hear it. BTW,
it also is not as quiet as the Sony Vaio I bought off the shelf at Best Buy.
September 1, 2004 12:56:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Keith Clark" <clarkphotography@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41350B0F.9293B57F@hotmail.com...
>
>
> Al wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > 1) When you are watching live TV with BTV, and you decide you want to
> > record the show, BTV seems like it automatically discards the previously
> > recorded buffer, and you only get the part from hitting the record
button
> > forward. TiVo gives you the option to include the buffer portion with
your
> > saved recording.
>
> That's a hotly discussed topic in the beta test group. In my experience,
> Snapstream listens to users, so I expect they'll have that functionality
> eventually. It'd be nice to see it in 3.5 but I won't hold my breath.

That's good to hear.

> >
> > 2) With my setup, I can't have the TV and computer monitor on at the
same
> > time, or at least I don't know how to do this (Keith Clark, any tips
here?).
> > If the computer boots up with the monitor attached, then after a few
seconds
> > of the TV being active, it switches over to the monitor full-time. No
> > amount of playing with XP's options for dual screens has changed this.
I
> > find this annoying because the BTV software setup seems to require you
to
> > boot into the XP welcome screen since a Snapstream .NET account is
created,
> > and the only way I know to make XP boot directly into the desktop is to
have
> > only one user account (Keith Clark, any tips on this?) Booting into the
> > Welcome screen means the Firefly remote is not active yet, so you still
have
> > to keyboard/mouse things a bit.
>
> Right - my DVR is a dedicated machine intended for family use in the
living room
> with a remote control, only for watching TV, listening to music (I ripped
every
> CD we've ever had to the hard drive), and looking at pictures, not email
or
> games or office stuff, so a single user account and auto-login wasn't an
issue.

So you don't have a Snapstream .NET account setup on your computer? It
seemed to be installed automatically by their softwar, and that account's
existence prevents me from booting directly into BTV. At least, that is how
I understand XP's booting procedure.

>
> I use VNC (www.realvnc.com) to remotely do the more advanced things like
defrag,
> run Windows update, etc.
>
> To use TV and computer CRT at the same time requires setting an option in
your
> video card's driver. With most current ones it should be possible.

I have the ATI Radeon 9100 IGP onboard video, which I believe is the same
one as in your DVR. Poked around for some driver options, but I didn't find
any. Maybe I need to download something from their website. The option I
get from right-clicking on the desktop, Properties, and then Settings
doesn't seem to take when I choose multiple monitors. The video monitor
flashes for a second, and then I revert to just the computer monitor.

To be really functional, I would like the video on the TV, and be able to
work from the desktop on my computer monitor.

>
> In my case the DVR is *only* connected to a TV *or* a monitor, never both.
The
> only times it was ever hooked to a monitor was when I was first installing
> everything and when I installed SP2 - the rest of these months it's been
running
> 24x7 in the living room connected to the TV.

It is definitely easier just to leave it on. Since I have two TiVo's doing
my main recording, I just turn on the DVR for those times when I need to
record three things at once.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 1:25:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

me6@privacy.net wrote:

> >(I ripped every
> >CD we've ever had to the hard drive),
>
> Have you also ripped all the DVD movies and copied them
> to the hard drive as well?

No. I've thought about it, but that would take a big hard drive,
although I can get pretty reasonable quality in about a gigabyte per
movie... That said, I have some favorites that I like to watch a lot
(Office Space!), that are on the hard drive, just because it's easier
than pawing through the stacks of cases to find the original disc. MP3's
are a different story though. You can put thousands of 'em in just a few
gigs, even at 256 kbits. I have a pretty decent library of my favorite
TV shows in Xvid (mpeg-4) though. Since I don't distribute them to
anyone, and don't download any, it's not illegal (except for removing
the commercials...LOL! ;->). But even those I burn to DVD-R rather than
leave on the hard drive since I can get quite a few hours of very good
quality video on a DVD-R in Xvid format.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 4:49:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 08:34:15 -0400, Al wrote:

>
> "Keith Clark" <clarkphotography@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4134DDF1.3BC5E9FE@hotmail.com...
>>
>>
>> andrewunix wrote:
>>
>> > Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:05:17 -0400, No@Email.com suggested:
>> > :
>> > : 7) The DVR computer is bigger, slightly louder, and uses more
> electricity
>> > : than my TiVo which can be a real issue for some.
>> >
>> > Not to mention the expense. A TiVo with a lifetime subscription costs
>> > quite a bit less than a properly built HTPC.
>>
>> My DVR is quieter than the clocks on the wall. I can hear the ticking of
> the two
>> clocks before I hear any noise from the DVR. I've literally fallen asleep
> on the
>> sofa while stuff was recording and when I woke up the only way I knew it
> was still
>> recording was by seeing the blue led on the case blink intermittently.
>
> My DVR is pretty quiet too thanks to the Zalman parts you recommended, but
> not as quiet as my TiVo which doesn't seem to have a fan. The DVR sits
> about 12 inches from my right elbow, so it's pretty easy to hear the noise
> it does make. If it was across the room, I probably wouldn't hear it. BTW,
> it also is not as quiet as the Sony Vaio I bought off the shelf at Best Buy.



I know. OEM's have access to the really solid cases. I had an HP once that
was completely silent as well. That thing was built like a tank.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 6:11:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

>No. I've thought about it, but that would take a big hard drive,
>although I can get pretty reasonable quality in about a gigabyte per
>movie... That said, I have some favorites that I like to watch a lot
>(Office Space!), that are on the hard drive, just because it's easier
>than pawing through the stacks of cases to find the original disc. MP3's
>are a different story though. You can put thousands of 'em in just a few
>gigs, even at 256 kbits

As I was reading your reply it occurred to me just how
cool it is that BIG hard drives are so cheap
nowdays.....and how they allow us to do things you cite
above.

I remember my 1st xt pc only had a 10 meg hard drive!!
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 6:11:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

me6@privacy.net wrote:

> >No. I've thought about it, but that would take a big hard drive,
> >although I can get pretty reasonable quality in about a gigabyte per
> >movie... That said, I have some favorites that I like to watch a lot
> >(Office Space!), that are on the hard drive, just because it's easier
> >than pawing through the stacks of cases to find the original disc. MP3's
> >are a different story though. You can put thousands of 'em in just a few
> >gigs, even at 256 kbits
>
> As I was reading your reply it occurred to me just how
> cool it is that BIG hard drives are so cheap
> nowdays.....and how they allow us to do things you cite
> above.
>
> I remember my 1st xt pc only had a 10 meg hard drive!!

I remember when a 5 MB hard drive was a huge 14" removable platter that could
only be used in a smoke and dust free room. That was one of the motivations
for me to get into computers. I never wanted one for home until (gasp!) Macs
came out. My first PC was a 286 running DR Dos - I'd been used to using a
Unix variant at work (Data General machines) and hated the MS Dos command
line. Of course I used Windows but when I got introduced to Linux at work it
was like a dream compared to Windows to have that power in a desktop machine.
I hear Linux has a bigger estimated market share than Mac OS does now.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 6:46:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

In article <4135F812.1F29F75E@hotmail.com>, clarkphotography@hotmail.com
says...
> No. I've thought about it, but that would take a big hard drive,
> although I can get pretty reasonable quality in about a gigabyte per
> movie... That said, I have some favorites that I like to watch a lot
> (Office Space!), that are on the hard drive, just because it's easier
> than pawing through the stacks of cases to find the original disc. MP3's
> are a different story though. You can put thousands of 'em in just a few
> gigs, even at 256 kbits. I have a pretty decent library of my favorite
> TV shows in Xvid (mpeg-4) though. Since I don't distribute them to
> anyone, and don't download any, it's not illegal (except for removing
> the commercials...LOL! ;->). But even those I burn to DVD-R rather than
> leave on the hard drive since I can get quite a few hours of very good
> quality video on a DVD-R in Xvid format.
>
>
>

Have you seen that bittorrent plug in for MythTV? It's the future man
:)  I almost feel sorry for cable companies, but then I remember who I'm
writing the check to every month for my internet access.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 6:46:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Chris Phillipo wrote:

> In article <4135F812.1F29F75E@hotmail.com>, clarkphotography@hotmail.com
> says...
> > No. I've thought about it, but that would take a big hard drive,
> > although I can get pretty reasonable quality in about a gigabyte per
> > movie... That said, I have some favorites that I like to watch a lot
> > (Office Space!), that are on the hard drive, just because it's easier
> > than pawing through the stacks of cases to find the original disc. MP3's
> > are a different story though. You can put thousands of 'em in just a few
> > gigs, even at 256 kbits. I have a pretty decent library of my favorite
> > TV shows in Xvid (mpeg-4) though. Since I don't distribute them to
> > anyone, and don't download any, it's not illegal (except for removing
> > the commercials...LOL! ;->). But even those I burn to DVD-R rather than
> > leave on the hard drive since I can get quite a few hours of very good
> > quality video on a DVD-R in Xvid format.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Have you seen that bittorrent plug in for MythTV? It's the future man
> :)  I almost feel sorry for cable companies, but then I remember who I'm
> writing the check to every month for my internet access.
> --

It's a cool idea but the pipes aren't fat enough - who in their right mind is
going to download 3.3 GB just for a one hour TV show? Not me. Maybe if I had
multiple DS3 lines...
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 11:25:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

<me6@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:5l7cj0h93rb5iudrnr7bn44v2f61s3aj7d@4ax.com...
>
> I remember my 1st xt pc only had a 10 meg hard drive!!
>
You must have climbed on board just before I did our first PC
came with a big 20 meg drive :-) That would have been in the
early 80s. My first computer was in the mid 70s and you had
to bootstrap it with a hex keyboard before you could load an
audio tape with data on it. Eventually, they came out with a
E-ROM to boot from.

David
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 11:25:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"david.mccall" wrote:

> <me6@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:5l7cj0h93rb5iudrnr7bn44v2f61s3aj7d@4ax.com...
> >
> > I remember my 1st xt pc only had a 10 meg hard drive!!
> >
> You must have climbed on board just before I did our first PC
> came with a big 20 meg drive :-) That would have been in the
> early 80s. My first computer was in the mid 70s and you had
> to bootstrap it with a hex keyboard before you could load an
> audio tape with data on it. Eventually, they came out with a
> E-ROM to boot from.
>
> David

Did you have an Altair with an S-100 bus? Ever hear of a Heathkit H8?
Mine is still in my parent's attic I hear. It had all of 8K of RAM
(which cost me hundreds of dollars at the time). It had a *split-octal*
keyboard. At one time I got a dot-matrix driver working in 8080
assembly code (I couldn't afford a printer but I had a 40-column
mechanism someone had given me. That's when I decided programming for
for the birds). I still remember having to boot the "big" computer at
work in the 70's by entering "7fe3" into toggle switches. Ahh, core
memory.
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 1:08:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Keith Clark" <clarkphotography@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4136356C.969448E7@hotmail.com...
>
>
> "david.mccall" wrote:
>
> > <me6@privacy.net> wrote in message
> > news:5l7cj0h93rb5iudrnr7bn44v2f61s3aj7d@4ax.com...
> > >
> > > I remember my 1st xt pc only had a 10 meg hard drive!!
> > >
> > You must have climbed on board just before I did our first PC
> > came with a big 20 meg drive :-) That would have been in the
> > early 80s. My first computer was in the mid 70s and you had
> > to bootstrap it with a hex keyboard before you could load an
> > audio tape with data on it. Eventually, they came out with a
> > E-ROM to boot from.
> >
> > David
>
> Did you have an Altair with an S-100 bus? Ever hear of a Heathkit H8?
> Mine is still in my parent's attic I hear. It had all of 8K of RAM
> (which cost me hundreds of dollars at the time). It had a *split-octal*
> keyboard. At one time I got a dot-matrix driver working in 8080
> assembly code (I couldn't afford a printer but I had a 40-column
> mechanism someone had given me. That's when I decided programming for
> for the birds). I still remember having to boot the "big" computer at
> work in the 70's by entering "7fe3" into toggle switches. Ahh, core
> memory.
>
No, it was a Cosmac Elf built around the RCA 1802 chip. It was a cool chip
for controller type application, in that it had I/O, and enough registers to
serve as RAM, that you could build a controller with the 1802 chip, an
E-PROM, a crystal (or a cap), some buffers and little else.

The chip's instruction set was designed for octal, but all of the
documentation
was in hex and it had a hex keyboard. It's still here. Wooden chassis and
all.

I also have something that looks to be based on a PDP-11 with 2 boards
of core memory. I've never seen it working though. It came out of an early
automatic bank teller system. You must remember those "hard dives", with
removable platters, that were roughly the size of a washing machine.

How much did they hold?

David
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 1:49:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:11:36 -0500, me6@privacy.net wrote:

>>No. I've thought about it, but that would take a big hard drive,
>>although I can get pretty reasonable quality in about a gigabyte per
>>movie... That said, I have some favorites that I like to watch a lot
>>(Office Space!), that are on the hard drive, just because it's easier
>>than pawing through the stacks of cases to find the original disc. MP3's
>>are a different story though. You can put thousands of 'em in just a few
>>gigs, even at 256 kbits
>
>As I was reading your reply it occurred to me just how
>cool it is that BIG hard drives are so cheap
>nowdays.....and how they allow us to do things you cite
>above.
>
>I remember my 1st xt pc only had a 10 meg hard drive!!


Wow you must have been rich! I was stuck with old 8" floppys for years
after those 10 meg drives came out. I miss 300 baud.
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 4:11:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Keith Clark wrote:
>
> "david.mccall" wrote:
>
>
>><me6@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>news:5l7cj0h93rb5iudrnr7bn44v2f61s3aj7d@4ax.com...
>>
>>>I remember my 1st xt pc only had a 10 meg hard drive!!
>>>
>>
>>You must have climbed on board just before I did our first PC
>>came with a big 20 meg drive :-) That would have been in the
>>early 80s. My first computer was in the mid 70s and you had
>>to bootstrap it with a hex keyboard before you could load an
>>audio tape with data on it. Eventually, they came out with a
>>E-ROM to boot from.
>>
>>David
>
>
> Did you have an Altair with an S-100 bus? Ever hear of a Heathkit H8?
> Mine is still in my parent's attic I hear. It had all of 8K of RAM
> (which cost me hundreds of dollars at the time). It had a *split-octal*
> keyboard. At one time I got a dot-matrix driver working in 8080
> assembly code (I couldn't afford a printer but I had a 40-column
> mechanism someone had given me. That's when I decided programming for
> for the birds). I still remember having to boot the "big" computer at
> work in the 70's by entering "7fe3" into toggle switches. Ahh, core
> memory.
>
No, but I did have a IMSAI 8080 with a teletype for all i/o and punched paper
tape for program storage storage in the beginning. I started with assembling my
own gear from kits that sometimes worked (S100 bus). Eventually it grew to 54K
(max in s100 chip memory) 2 8 in. double sided floppies, an Anadex 9600 dot
matrix printer and a monochrome terminal for a keyboard & monitor by 1978. My
co-workers (programmers) thought I was nuts for fooling with those toys.

Where o where have the dinosaurs gone..........
--
Jim Baber

(see my 10kW grid tied solar system at "www.baber.org")

1350 W Mesa Ave.
Fresno CA, 93711
(559) 435-9068
(559) 905-2204 cell

Email jim@NOJUNKbaber.org
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 6:29:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"kryppy" <kryppy@.> wrote in message
news:llucj0l8djhokhi9k4f47o9oafljmc3glf@4ax.com...
>
> Wow you must have been rich! I was stuck with old 8" floppys for years
> after those 10 meg drives came out. I miss 300 baud.
>
300? Real hardcore folks like Keith probably remember using
Teletype machines as terminals at 110 baud. Weren't the first
teletypes at 30 baud. For those that don't know what I'm talking
about, the sound that has forever been the sound associated with
"News" is the sound of a Teletype. It was a very noisy, slow,
printer with a keyboard hanging off the front. Before CRT
terminals, this was one of the ways people communicated
with mainframe computers. My contact with Teletypes was in
radio stations for the news feed.

David
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 2:04:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"david.mccall" wrote:

> "kryppy" <kryppy@.> wrote in message
> news:llucj0l8djhokhi9k4f47o9oafljmc3glf@4ax.com...
> >
> > Wow you must have been rich! I was stuck with old 8" floppys for years
> > after those 10 meg drives came out. I miss 300 baud.
> >
> 300? Real hardcore folks like Keith probably remember using
> Teletype machines as terminals at 110 baud. Weren't the first
> teletypes at 30 baud. For those that don't know what I'm talking
> about, the sound that has forever been the sound associated with
> "News" is the sound of a Teletype. It was a very noisy, slow,
> printer with a keyboard hanging off the front. Before CRT
> terminals, this was one of the ways people communicated
> with mainframe computers. My contact with Teletypes was in
> radio stations for the news feed.
>
> David

Well, I remember seeing modems with the special acoustic coupler that you
placed the handset in. I don't know what baud rate those were.

The first modem I bought was 1200 baud. I remember waiting hours for some
little shareware program to download..

Today I download whole CDs in less time (legally - Linux ISOs)

I don't miss those days at all.
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 3:37:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

In article <41360E78.BB18571@hotmail.com>, clarkphotography@hotmail.com
says...
>
> It's a cool idea but the pipes aren't fat enough - who in their right mind is
> going to download 3.3 GB just for a one hour TV show? Not me. Maybe if I had
> multiple DS3 lines...
>
>

Obviously it will only work whenever everyone has gone to Divx and Mpeg-
4 boards, they seem to be poping up all over the place now.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 3:37:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

>Obviously it will only work whenever everyone has gone to Divx and Mpeg-
>4 boards, they seem to be poping up all over the place now.

Please excuse my ignorance but can you explain what you
mean above? Are you saying that more and more DVD
players are capable of playing a compressed type video?

Sorry bout all the questions guys. I just have an
insatiable curiosity sometimes. <G>
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 6:18:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

In article <7uhej0l6must439q35hfstk91jpo3e7pf9@4ax.com>, me6@privacy.net
says...
> Subject: Re: Snapstream BTV DVR vs. TiVo
> From: me6@privacy.net
> Newsgroups: alt.video.ptv.tivo, rec.video.desktop
>
> >Obviously it will only work whenever everyone has gone to Divx and Mpeg-
> >4 boards, they seem to be poping up all over the place now.
>
> Please excuse my ignorance but can you explain what you
> mean above? Are you saying that more and more DVD
> players are capable of playing a compressed type video?
>
> Sorry bout all the questions guys. I just have an
> insatiable curiosity sometimes. <G>
>
>

No I'm saying there are more PVR cards that support Mpeg-4. Although
there are also more DVD players out now that also play the alternate
formats.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 6:19:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

In article <413752A3.C26A0F8A@hotmail.com>, clarkphotography@hotmail.com
says...
>
> Well, I remember seeing modems with the special acoustic coupler that you
> placed the handset in. I don't know what baud rate those were.
>
> The first modem I bought was 1200 baud. I remember waiting hours for some
> little shareware program to download..
>
> Today I download whole CDs in less time (legally - Linux ISOs)
>
> I don't miss those days at all.
>
>
>

I remember typing 10 page long BASIC programs on my Ti99a just to see
what they do and crossing my fingers that this would be the one in 5
times the save to audio tape actually worked.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 6:19:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Chris Phillipo wrote:

> In article <413752A3.C26A0F8A@hotmail.com>, clarkphotography@hotmail.com
> says...
> >
> > Well, I remember seeing modems with the special acoustic coupler that you
> > placed the handset in. I don't know what baud rate those were.
> >
> > The first modem I bought was 1200 baud. I remember waiting hours for some
> > little shareware program to download..
> >
> > Today I download whole CDs in less time (legally - Linux ISOs)
> >
> > I don't miss those days at all.
> >
> >
> >
>
> I remember typing 10 page long BASIC programs on my Ti99a just to see
> what they do and crossing my fingers that this would be the one in 5
> times the save to audio tape actually worked.
> --

The trick with audio tapes was to never, ever rewind them fully. If you did,
the sudden stop would stretch them just enough to make the data hard to
recover. When I figured that out I didn't have any more issues. The Heathkit
had a really nice cassette interface board - it let me use one deck for reading
and one for writing so I could get a lot more throughput. They had floppy
drives, but at several hundred dollars per floppy drive, I just couldn't afford
one.

With a terabyte of storage at home now I'd never want to go back to those days.
But the learning was really exciting.
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 1:07:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 02:29:12 GMT, "david.mccall"
<david.mccallUNDERLINE@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>"kryppy" <kryppy@.> wrote in message
>news:llucj0l8djhokhi9k4f47o9oafljmc3glf@4ax.com...
>>
>> Wow you must have been rich! I was stuck with old 8" floppys for years
>> after those 10 meg drives came out. I miss 300 baud.
>>
>300? Real hardcore folks like Keith probably remember using
>Teletype machines as terminals at 110 baud. Weren't the first
>teletypes at 30 baud. For those that don't know what I'm talking
>about, the sound that has forever been the sound associated with
>"News" is the sound of a Teletype. It was a very noisy, slow,
>printer with a keyboard hanging off the front. Before CRT
>terminals, this was one of the ways people communicated
>with mainframe computers. My contact with Teletypes was in
>radio stations for the news feed.


I remember 110 baud, 300 was like the jump from 9600 to 28.8. :) 
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 1:07:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

> I remember 110 baud, 300 was like the jump from 9600 to 28.8. :) 

Same here ... one thing I did like about 300 baud is that when reading
text, it came across at just about the same speed I could read it.

Then 1200 came along, and I actually had to pause the page because it
was so damn fast!
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 1:10:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 10:04:35 -0700, Keith Clark
<clarkphotography@hotmail.com> wrote:


>Well, I remember seeing modems with the special acoustic coupler that you
>placed the handset in. I don't know what baud rate those were.

I still have my TRS-80 acoustic coupler!! It doesn't fit any of my new
handsets!
>
>The first modem I bought was 1200 baud. I remember waiting hours for some
>little shareware program to download..

I miss loading code from cassette tapes....not.
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 2:48:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

>Glenn,
>
>Why not sign up for the beta? The more of us voicing our opinions and filing bugs
>the better... If you have only one tuner card you'll find the current build
>really stable.

I did join the beta testing... Snap Stream was not able to get the
retail version running ( the retail version did work perfectly for a
month ) and the solution was to run the beta... the first few beta
versions would not let me download the guide... then one of the beta's
seemed to work.. I finally got the guide... I thought all was good...
but the next day when I checked on the program I had set up to record
I found it was only a 64k file - the title was correct but it did not
record the entire show... then I noticed that I could not connect to
Live TV either... the night before Live TV was working...
Since Sage TV has been trouble free I just went back to Sage - I am
getting used to Sage and the quality is as good as BTV...
I did like the interface and the TV Guide in BTV a little better- but
that seems to be because I was used to it... I just got tired of
playing around with BTV... I am hoping that the final release of BTV
3.5 will work for me.
I have an ATI TV wonder and a Hauppauge PVR USB2 so I would not mind
having both Sage and BTV...
Regards,
Glenn M


A GREAT DAY FOR FREEDOM...Pink Floyd
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 10:05:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

me6@privacy.net shaped the electrons to say:
>mean above? Are you saying that more and more DVD
>players are capable of playing a compressed type video?

All DVD players do - MPEG2, which is used on DVD, is compressed video.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 10:06:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Chris Phillipo <cphillipo@ramsays-online.com> shaped the electrons to say:
>No I'm saying there are more PVR cards that support Mpeg-4. Although
>there are also more DVD players out now that also play the alternate
>formats.

And both the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray standard have adopted MPEG4 AVC and
VC-9 (or VC-1, same thing, different name - the codec from WMV9) for
their systems - in addition to MPEG2.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
Anonymous
September 5, 2004 12:52:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Glenn M wrote:

> >Glenn,
> >
> >Why not sign up for the beta? The more of us voicing our opinions and filing bugs
> >the better... If you have only one tuner card you'll find the current build
> >really stable.
>
> I did join the beta testing... Snap Stream was not able to get the
> retail version running ( the retail version did work perfectly for a
> month ) and the solution was to run the beta... the first few beta
> versions would not let me download the guide... then one of the beta's
> seemed to work.. I finally got the guide... I thought all was good...
> but the next day when I checked on the program I had set up to record
> I found it was only a 64k file - the title was correct but it did not
> record the entire show... then I noticed that I could not connect to
> Live TV either... the night before Live TV was working...
> Since Sage TV has been trouble free I just went back to Sage - I am
> getting used to Sage and the quality is as good as BTV...
> I did like the interface and the TV Guide in BTV a little better- but
> that seems to be because I was used to it... I just got tired of
> playing around with BTV... I am hoping that the final release of BTV
> 3.5 will work for me.
> I have an ATI TV wonder and a Hauppauge PVR USB2 so I would not mind
> having both Sage and BTV...
> Regards,
> Glenn M
>
> A GREAT DAY FOR FREEDOM...Pink Floyd

Weird. Did you file a bug report? Did you try it on a machine with a fresh OS install?
It could be therre was something the registry hosing things up. Windows is funny that
way. I get the feeing that BTV is more designed for the PVR-250 cards though. Still,
if the hardware in your system was on their "supported" list, it "should" have
worked...
Anonymous
September 5, 2004 12:54:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

MegaZone wrote:

> me6@privacy.net shaped the electrons to say:
> >mean above? Are you saying that more and more DVD
> >players are capable of playing a compressed type video?
>
> All DVD players do - MPEG2, which is used on DVD, is compressed video.
>
>

He's talking about mpeg-4. Not mpeg-2.

And yeah, more players are supporting it now. I don't have the URL anymore but
US News and World Report did an article a few months back that mentiooned
several models.
Anonymous
September 5, 2004 4:57:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

clarkphotography@hotmail.com shaped the electrons to say:
>MegaZone wrote:
>> All DVD players do - MPEG2, which is used on DVD, is compressed video.
>He's talking about mpeg-4. Not mpeg-2.

I know, I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek. All DVD is 'compressed
type video'.

>And yeah, more players are supporting it now. I don't have the URL anymore but
>US News and World Report did an article a few months back that mentiooned
>several models.

Usually Chinese models, they have DIVX support, which uses the MPEG4
codec. There are also some DVD players which play Windows Media
content.

But there is no standardization in the industry for this kind of thing
so there are no commercial discs using it. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have
standardized the advanced codecs, so that's really where we'll see it
take off.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
Anonymous
September 5, 2004 5:26:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

MegaZone wrote:

> clarkphotography@hotmail.com shaped the electrons to say:
> >MegaZone wrote:
> >> All DVD players do - MPEG2, which is used on DVD, is compressed video.
> >He's talking about mpeg-4. Not mpeg-2.
>
> I know, I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek. All DVD is 'compressed
> type video'.
>

OK. LOL...


>
> >And yeah, more players are supporting it now. I don't have the URL anymore but
> >US News and World Report did an article a few months back that mentiooned
> >several models.
>
> Usually Chinese models, they have DIVX support, which uses the MPEG4
> codec. There are also some DVD players which play Windows Media
> content.
>
> But there is no standardization in the industry for this kind of thing
> so there are no commercial discs using it. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have
> standardized the advanced codecs, so that's really where we'll see it
> take off.
>

Well there's a really nice chipset that supports all the variations including
Windows Media. There's even a cheap (under $70) Phllips player that supports Xvid
and Divx that I've seen at Target.


By the way I guess this would be the place to post this link...

AnandTech is starting a series of articles on how to set up MythTV on Linux.

http://anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2190

I hope they have better luck than I did.
Anonymous
September 6, 2004 1:03:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Glenn M <> wrote:

> >Glenn,
> >
> >Why not sign up for the beta? The more of us voicing our opinions and filing bugs
> >the better... If you have only one tuner card you'll find the current build
> >really stable.

> I did join the beta testing... Snap Stream was not able to get the
> retail version running ( the retail version did work perfectly for a
> month ) and the solution was to run the beta... the first few beta
> versions would not let me download the guide... then one of the beta's
> seemed to work.. I finally got the guide... I thought all was good...
> but the next day when I checked on the program I had set up to record
> I found it was only a 64k file - the title was correct but it did not
> record the entire show... then I noticed that I could not connect to
> Live TV either... the night before Live TV was working...
> Since Sage TV has been trouble free I just went back to Sage - I am
> getting used to Sage and the quality is as good as BTV...
> I did like the interface and the TV Guide in BTV a little better- but
> that seems to be because I was used to it... I just got tired of
> playing around with BTV... I am hoping that the final release of BTV
> 3.5 will work for me.
> I have an ATI TV wonder and a Hauppauge PVR USB2 so I would not mind
> having both Sage and BTV...
> Regards,
> Glenn M


I had problems recording with BTV (just a few days ago, so presumably the
latest non-beta vers using my pvr250); turned out it was Boclean running in
the background that caused a conflict. Put BTV on Boclean's exclusion list and
all was fine.

I still prefer SageTV though (@ the same res and bitrate pic seems smoother,
and no visible scan lines); it looks to me - reading the forums on both BTV
and Sage sites - that SageTV has more excitement, momentum and a more
knowledgeable, creative userbase behind it. Also, their config file setup
allows for lots of creativity, and there are already a bunch of user-written
..stv config files available for downloading that add new functions to the
menus.

What eventually happens who knows, but with the Meedio folks also coming out
with a TV app soon, I doubt they'll all be around in a year's time. Nex
Anonymous
September 7, 2004 2:56:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

kryppy <kryppy@.> wrote in news:75rgj097pqlh2i7npj49ro3sqconbodkld@4ax.com:

> On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 10:04:35 -0700, Keith Clark
> <clarkphotography@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Well, I remember seeing modems with the special acoustic coupler that you
>>placed the handset in. I don't know what baud rate those were.
>
> I still have my TRS-80 acoustic coupler!! It doesn't fit any of my new
> handsets!

Do you ever try to to call the W.O.P.E.R on that modem???:) 
!