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Can I use USB 2.0 from camcorder to PC?

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Anonymous
September 1, 2004 2:19:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

I've just purchased a nice Panasonic GS120 (3CCD) camcorder, but am
stumped as to how to get my recordings (on MiniDV tape) into my PC for
editing. I've really studied the manual, but think I'm missing a
major point that everyone assumes I should already know. I don't have
a firewire connection on my Dell 8300 2.8Ghz 512 memory PC and would
really like not having to buy a card and put it in -- so my question
is what is the precise process for hooking up my camcorder to my PC's
USB 2.0 front port and transferring the images from my miniDV tape
into my PC? I'm using the AC Adaptor so I don't run my battery down
and then using the supplied USB cord into the PC, but don't know what
to do from there. Also, can I charge my lithium-ion battery before it
completely runs down? I really appreciate any help in this matter.
TIA

Judi

More about : usb camcorder

Anonymous
September 1, 2004 5:53:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Judi" <j.magnussen@att.net> wrote in message
news:bfb0056f.0409010919.3885b936@posting.google.com...
> I've just purchased a nice Panasonic GS120 (3CCD) camcorder, but am
> stumped as to how to get my recordings (on MiniDV tape) into my PC for
> editing. I've really studied the manual, but think I'm missing a
> major point that everyone assumes I should already know. I don't have
> a firewire connection on my Dell 8300 2.8Ghz 512 memory PC and would
> really like not having to buy a card and put it in -- so my question
> is what is the precise process for hooking up my camcorder to my PC's
> USB 2.0 front port and transferring the images from my miniDV tape
> into my PC? I'm using the AC Adaptor so I don't run my battery down
> and then using the supplied USB cord into the PC, but don't know what
> to do from there. Also, can I charge my lithium-ion battery before it
> completely runs down? I really appreciate any help in this matter.

I have that same camera, and although I've only done firewire transfer, I'm
pretty sure that you can do video transfer with USB2, although I'd bet
you're limited to the tools that Panasonic provides on the included CD-ROM,
since most other editing/capture applications will expect firewire
connectivity.

I'm fairly happy with this camera -- it's easy to use, and in good light the
picture quality is excellent. In low light I think the PQ suffers a tad,
and the night mode is all but useless. I've been pretty happy with the
quality of the stills it takes.

Lithium Ion batteries don't have the same memory issues that NiCads do, so
you can charge them before they're completely drained.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 6:16:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

You can bring it to a computer shop and let them put in firewire.

"Judi" <j.magnussen@att.net> wrote in message
news:bfb0056f.0409010919.3885b936@posting.google.com...
> major point that everyone assumes I should already know. I don't have
> a firewire connection on my Dell 8300 2.8Ghz 512 memory PC and would
> really like not having to buy a card and put it in -- so my question
Related resources
September 1, 2004 8:46:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

I think you will have to install a firewire port in your computer?
The USB port on most, if not all camcorders, are USB1.1. When you
connect a slow USB1.1 port to a fast USB2.0, they operate at the slow
USB1.1 speed. So the only way to get your full quality (no dropped
frames) DV into a computer is using the firewire port. It's too bad
that the camcorder makers and the computer makers can't get together
and make fast ports standard on both units. Does someone make a
firewire (camcorder end) to USB2.0 (computer end) converter box?

Dave



j.magnussen@att.net (Judi) wrote in message news:<bfb0056f.0409010919.3885b936@posting.google.com>...
> I've just purchased a nice Panasonic GS120 (3CCD) camcorder, but am
> stumped as to how to get my recordings (on MiniDV tape) into my PC for
> editing. I've really studied the manual, but think I'm missing a
> major point that everyone assumes I should already know. I don't have
> a firewire connection on my Dell 8300 2.8Ghz 512 memory PC and would
> really like not having to buy a card and put it in -- so my question
> is what is the precise process for hooking up my camcorder to my PC's
> USB 2.0 front port and transferring the images from my miniDV tape
> into my PC? I'm using the AC Adaptor so I don't run my battery down
> and then using the supplied USB cord into the PC, but don't know what
> to do from there. Also, can I charge my lithium-ion battery before it
> completely runs down? I really appreciate any help in this matter.
> TIA
>
> Judi
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 11:15:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

j.magnussen@att.net (Judi) wrote in
news:bfb0056f.0409010919.3885b936@posting.google.com:

> I've just purchased a nice Panasonic GS120 (3CCD) camcorder, but
> am stumped as to how to get my recordings (on MiniDV tape) into my
> PC for editing. I've really studied the manual, but think I'm
> missing a major point that everyone assumes I should already know.
> I don't have a firewire connection on my Dell 8300 2.8Ghz 512
> memory PC and would really like not having to buy a card and put
> it in -- so my question is what is the precise process for hooking
> up my camcorder to my PC's USB 2.0 front port and transferring the
> images from my miniDV tape into my PC? I'm using the AC Adaptor
> so I don't run my battery down and then using the supplied USB
> cord into the PC, but don't know what to do from there. Also, can
> I charge my lithium-ion battery before it completely runs down? I
> really appreciate any help in this matter. TIA
>
> Judi
>

Better get the FireWire. The Panasonic site is down at this moment, or
I'd double-check the manual, but suffice it to say that up to now, all
or nearly all CamCorders do not use USB for full-definition video
transfer.

And you can charge the LiIon battery whenever you want to - it's not a
NiCd battery. IIRC, LiIons even prefer not to be allowed to run down
fully.

Gino

--
Gene E. Bloch (Gino) phone 650.966.8481
Call me letters find me at domain blochg whose dot is com
September 1, 2004 11:26:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

The firewire card should only be about $20. It's no big deal to install it
or get it installed. With the vintage machine you have, it should be
plug'n'play. It's appalling that Dell didn't include it, however.

--Judd



"Judi" <j.magnussen@att.net> wrote in message
news:bfb0056f.0409010919.3885b936@posting.google.com...
> I've just purchased a nice Panasonic GS120 (3CCD) camcorder, but am
> stumped as to how to get my recordings (on MiniDV tape) into my PC for
> editing. I've really studied the manual, but think I'm missing a
> major point that everyone assumes I should already know. I don't have
> a firewire connection on my Dell 8300 2.8Ghz 512 memory PC and would
> really like not having to buy a card and put it in -- so my question
> is what is the precise process for hooking up my camcorder to my PC's
> USB 2.0 front port and transferring the images from my miniDV tape
> into my PC? I'm using the AC Adaptor so I don't run my battery down
> and then using the supplied USB cord into the PC, but don't know what
> to do from there. Also, can I charge my lithium-ion battery before it
> completely runs down? I really appreciate any help in this matter.
> TIA
>
> Judi
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 3:34:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On 1 Sep 2004 10:19:44 -0700, j.magnussen@att.net (Judi) wrote:

>I've just purchased a nice Panasonic GS120 (3CCD) camcorder, but am
>stumped as to how to get my recordings (on MiniDV tape) into my PC for
>editing. I've really studied the manual, but think I'm missing a
>major point that everyone assumes I should already know. I don't have
>a firewire connection on my Dell 8300 2.8Ghz 512 memory PC and would
>really like not having to buy a card and put it in -- so my question
>is what is the precise process for hooking up my camcorder to my PC's
>USB 2.0 front port and transferring the images from my miniDV tape
>into my PC? I'm using the AC Adaptor so I don't run my battery down
>and then using the supplied USB cord into the PC, but don't know what
>to do from there. Also, can I charge my lithium-ion battery before it
>completely runs down? I really appreciate any help in this matter.

I suspect the manual says "use Firewire". You're looking for
instructions how to use USB, but you won't find them.

I'm sorry you "really don't want to" put a Firewire card in your Dell.
But I think you'll have to ;-) Good news - they're cheap and simple
to install, as long as you have a free pci slot. I assume from the
spec. of your computer that it is running Windows XP?
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 3:34:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

> I suspect the manual says "use Firewire". You're looking for
> instructions how to use USB, but you won't find them.
>
> I'm sorry you "really don't want to" put a Firewire card in your Dell.
> But I think you'll have to ;-) Good news - they're cheap and simple
> to install, as long as you have a free pci slot. I assume from the
> spec. of your computer that it is running Windows XP?

No, no this is all wrong. I own this same camera. The box is marked with a
USB2 HiSpeed logo and the camera ships with a USB cable and no firewire
cable, and has both USB and Firewire interfaces on the camera itself.

I've only used mine with firewire (for the broader application
compatibility), but once you install the included software suite it's pretty
much a guarantee you can capture via USB2.

Still picture download from the SD memory card *requires* USB -- can't be
done via Firewire.

The real limitation, is of course, is incompatibility with most
off-the-shelf editing software expecting firewire capture.
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 3:34:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Shawn Barnhart" wrote ...
> > I suspect the manual says "use Firewire". You're looking for
> > instructions how to use USB, but you won't find them.
> >
> > I'm sorry you "really don't want to" put a Firewire card in your Dell.
> > But I think you'll have to ;-) Good news - they're cheap and simple
> > to install, as long as you have a free pci slot. I assume from the
> > spec. of your computer that it is running Windows XP?
>
> No, no this is all wrong. I own this same camera. The box is marked with
a
> USB2 HiSpeed logo and the camera ships with a USB cable and no firewire
> cable, and has both USB and Firewire interfaces on the camera itself.

There is nothing you wrote that would convince me that it supports
full DV capture via USB (of whatever version). If it doesn't explicitly
say that you can capture DV vis USB2, it seems safe to assume that
it will NOT.

> I've only used mine with firewire (for the broader application
> compatibility), but once you install the included software suite
> it's pretty much a guarantee you can capture via USB2.

Does the software suite actually include something that will
capture the DV stream via USB2? If so, identifying it would
appear to solve both the OP's question, and yours as well.

> Still picture download from the SD memory card *requires*
> USB -- can't be done via Firewire.

As with virtually all cameras. I suspect the USB2 is a marketing
gimmic unless they actually supplied USB capture software.

> The real limitation, is of course, is incompatibility with most
> off-the-shelf editing software expecting firewire capture.

I think that is only a consequence of the primary limitation.
September 2, 2004 4:32:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

You cannot transfer video via USB. The USB is only to transfer the still
pictures. You need firewire to transfer video.


"Judi" <j.magnussen@att.net> wrote in message
news:bfb0056f.0409010919.3885b936@posting.google.com...
> I've just purchased a nice Panasonic GS120 (3CCD) camcorder, but am
> stumped as to how to get my recordings (on MiniDV tape) into my PC for
> editing. I've really studied the manual, but think I'm missing a
> major point that everyone assumes I should already know. I don't have
> a firewire connection on my Dell 8300 2.8Ghz 512 memory PC and would
> really like not having to buy a card and put it in -- so my question
> is what is the precise process for hooking up my camcorder to my PC's
> USB 2.0 front port and transferring the images from my miniDV tape
> into my PC? I'm using the AC Adaptor so I don't run my battery down
> and then using the supplied USB cord into the PC, but don't know what
> to do from there. Also, can I charge my lithium-ion battery before it
> completely runs down? I really appreciate any help in this matter.
> TIA
>
> Judi
September 2, 2004 4:34:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

I have the GS200. You need firewire to capture. If you have a small dell,
you may need to search for a half height firewire.


"Shawn Barnhart" <usenet@grasslake.net> wrote in message
news:41373559$0$65568$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com...
> > I suspect the manual says "use Firewire". You're looking for
> > instructions how to use USB, but you won't find them.
> >
> > I'm sorry you "really don't want to" put a Firewire card in your Dell.
> > But I think you'll have to ;-) Good news - they're cheap and simple
> > to install, as long as you have a free pci slot. I assume from the
> > spec. of your computer that it is running Windows XP?
>
> No, no this is all wrong. I own this same camera. The box is marked with
a
> USB2 HiSpeed logo and the camera ships with a USB cable and no firewire
> cable, and has both USB and Firewire interfaces on the camera itself.
>
> I've only used mine with firewire (for the broader application
> compatibility), but once you install the included software suite it's
pretty
> much a guarantee you can capture via USB2.
>
> Still picture download from the SD memory card *requires* USB -- can't be
> done via Firewire.
>
> The real limitation, is of course, is incompatibility with most
> off-the-shelf editing software expecting firewire capture.
>
>
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 1:44:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:59:36 -0500, "Shawn Barnhart"
<usenet@grasslake.net> wrote:

>> I'm sorry you "really don't want to" put a Firewire card in your Dell.
>> But I think you'll have to ;-) Good news - they're cheap and simple
>> to install, as long as you have a free pci slot. I assume from the
>> spec. of your computer that it is running Windows XP?
>
>No, no this is all wrong. I own this same camera. The box is marked with a
>USB2 HiSpeed logo and the camera ships with a USB cable and no firewire
>cable, and has both USB and Firewire interfaces on the camera itself.

The USB interface is for still pictures.
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 4:45:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 21:44:55 +0100, Laurence Payne
<l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>The USB interface is for still pictures.

Not always -or so I've been told by some camera owners, that they
would transfer mpeg video via USB. Weird, I admit it, but apparently
real.
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 12:03:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"RS" <idontthinkso@mail.com> wrote in message news:<413758c2_3@newspeer2.tds.net>...
> You cannot transfer video via USB. The USB is only to transfer the still
> pictures. You need firewire to transfer video.
>
>
> "Judi" <j.magnussen@att.net> wrote in message
> news:bfb0056f.0409010919.3885b936@posting.google.com...
so my question
> > is what is the precise process for hooking up my camcorder to my PC's
> > USB 2.0 front port and transferring the images from my miniDV tape
> > into my PC? I'm using the AC Adaptor so I don't run my battery down
> > and then using the supplied USB cord into the PC, but don't know what
> > to do from there. Also, can I charge my lithium-ion battery before it
> > completely runs down? I really appreciate any help in this matter.
> > TIA
> >
> > Judi


Well, I seem to have a debate going here now and I'm still confused.
Yes, I'm able to transfer my still photos from my camcorder via my USB
2.0 ports, but I can't figure out what process is necessary to be able
to get the video transferred. I used the program on Panasonic's
accompanying CD (DV Studio3) but don't get the video transferred. Has
anyone successfully done this using their USB 2.0 ports?

Regardless, the response I've received and the information is so
appreciated. Thank you ALL for your consideration. I really needed
some input at this stage.

Judi
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 2:20:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 00:45:19 +0200, Bariloche
<bariloche@bariloche.com> wrote:

>
>>The USB interface is for still pictures.
>
>Not always -or so I've been told by some camera owners, that they
>would transfer mpeg video via USB. Weird, I admit it, but apparently
>real.

Which camera models?
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 2:20:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3rdgj0ha3gp7aes3ap4s76tg108mutn4o7@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 00:45:19 +0200, Bariloche
> <bariloche@bariloche.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >>The USB interface is for still pictures.
> >
> >Not always -or so I've been told by some camera owners, that they
> >would transfer mpeg video via USB. Weird, I admit it, but apparently
> >real.
>
> Which camera models?

I'm quite confident that those camera models that provide
DV I/O via USB2 will state that fact quite prominently
unless they somehow escape from the factory without the
notice of the marketing department :-)
In the absense of such information, it seems safe to assume
that any particular device will NOT transfer DV via USB.
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 7:21:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Judi" <j.magnussen@att.net> wrote in message
news:bfb0056f.0409030703.7954190b@posting.google.com...
> "RS" <idontthinkso@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:<413758c2_3@newspeer2.tds.net>...
>> You cannot transfer video via USB. The USB is only to transfer the still
>> pictures. You need firewire to transfer video.
>>
>>
>> "Judi" <j.magnussen@att.net> wrote in message
>> news:bfb0056f.0409010919.3885b936@posting.google.com...
> so my question
>> > is what is the precise process for hooking up my camcorder to my PC's
>> > USB 2.0 front port and transferring the images from my miniDV tape
>> > into my PC? I'm using the AC Adaptor so I don't run my battery down
>> > and then using the supplied USB cord into the PC, but don't know what
>> > to do from there. Also, can I charge my lithium-ion battery before it
>> > completely runs down? I really appreciate any help in this matter.
>> > TIA
>> >
>> > Judi
>
>
> Well, I seem to have a debate going here now and I'm still confused.
> Yes, I'm able to transfer my still photos from my camcorder via my USB
> 2.0 ports, but I can't figure out what process is necessary to be able
> to get the video transferred. I used the program on Panasonic's
> accompanying CD (DV Studio3) but don't get the video transferred. Has
> anyone successfully done this using their USB 2.0 ports?
>
> Regardless, the response I've received and the information is so
> appreciated. Thank you ALL for your consideration. I really needed
> some input at this stage.
>
> Judi

The thing about USB only for stills is bunk, USB 2.0 has roughly the same
transfer rate as firewire. (about 400MB/S). You need a capture device,
something like the adaptec line.
http://graphics.adaptec.com/pdfs/videoh_family.pdf
http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/proddetail.htm...
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 7:21:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

In article <m_%Zc.16891$aB1.12909@twister.socal.rr.com>, a@b.c says...
>
> The thing about USB only for stills is bunk, USB 2.0 has roughly the same
> transfer rate as firewire. (about 400MB/S). You need a capture device,
> something like the adaptec line.
> http://graphics.adaptec.com/pdfs/videoh_family.pdf
> http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/proddetail.htm...
>
>

You need a capture device in order to use the USB cable? What the..?
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 7:21:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:20:52 -0300, Chris Phillipo
<cphillipo@ramsays-online.com> wrote:

>In article <m_%Zc.16891$aB1.12909@twister.socal.rr.com>, a@b.c says...
>>
>> The thing about USB only for stills is bunk, USB 2.0 has roughly the same
>> transfer rate as firewire. (about 400MB/S). You need a capture device,
>> something like the adaptec line.
>> http://graphics.adaptec.com/pdfs/videoh_family.pdf
>> http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/proddetail.htm...
>>
>>
>
>You need a capture device in order to use the USB cable? What the..?

Exactly ;-)

USB 2 *is* fast enough to transfer full resolution DV video. But
both the camcorder and PC software must support that transfer. There
are no system (OS) standards for USB DV transfer. Likewise, there are
no standards for Camcorder to VCR DV transfer via USB 2.

Firewire, OTOH, is supported. Using USB to do the job that firewire
is currently doing perfectly well isn't wise. Any camcorder which did
support full res USB 2 transfer would still need firewire as well.

Besides, a lot of people like having the option to use whatever
software they wish for capture, rather than some maker's proprietary
program.

DV camcorders which have an mpeg/mpeg2 chip in them for streaming
video and memory card capture can use USB in order to transfer that
format. I haven't seen any which use USB 2 to transfer full
resolution DV, but it doesn't mean that they couldn't exist.

Firewire is quite cheap now, both interfaces and cables are very
reasonable. It seems like a manufacturer/marketing failure when new
PCs don't include that interface, as well as USB.
--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/&gt;
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/&gt;
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 8:36:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

I have never seen a computer that can send DV to your computer via USB.
USB-2 is certainly fast enough, so it is certainly possible that it could be
used for this purpose. USB on a camera is usually used for stills and/or
low-rez/low framerate MPEG movies. They may have to be recorded
in this format to begin with, but you may be able to extract stills and MPEG
movies from your DV footage (if the camera is set up to do that).

All I can say is read the manual, or call tech support to find out what
your camera is actually capable of doing.

David
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 10:49:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Chris Phillipo" <cphillipo@ramsays-online.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ba271fec414725a98a6da@news.eastlink.ca...
> In article <m_%Zc.16891$aB1.12909@twister.socal.rr.com>, a@b.c says...
>>
>> The thing about USB only for stills is bunk, USB 2.0 has roughly the same
>> transfer rate as firewire. (about 400MB/S). You need a capture device,
>> something like the adaptec line.
>> http://graphics.adaptec.com/pdfs/videoh_family.pdf
>> http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/proddetail.htm...
>>
>>
>
> You need a capture device in order to use the USB cable? What the..?
> --
Don't you need something to convert the raw video into mpeg 1/2? Guess I
might be wrong?
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 2:17:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Judi" wrote ...
> Well, I seem to have a debate going here now and I'm still confused.
> Yes, I'm able to transfer my still photos from my camcorder via my USB
> 2.0 ports, but I can't figure out what process is necessary to be able
> to get the video transferred. I used the program on Panasonic's
> accompanying CD (DV Studio3) but don't get the video transferred. Has
> anyone successfully done this using their USB 2.0 ports?
>
> Regardless, the response I've received and the information is so
> appreciated. Thank you ALL for your consideration. I really needed
> some input at this stage.

Does the manual that came with your camcorder specifically state
that you can capture DV video via the USB port?

If yes, follow the directions.

If no, it is safe to assume that it is like 99.8% of all the other
camcorders on the planet and will do DV only via Firewire.
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 9:59:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

In news:Laurence Payne <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> typed:
> On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 00:45:19 +0200, Bariloche
> <bariloche@bariloche.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>> The USB interface is for still pictures.
>>
>> Not always -or so I've been told by some camera owners, that they
>> would transfer mpeg video via USB. Weird, I admit it, but apparently
>> real.
>
> Which camera models?


I have a small TRV33 here that can stream video trough USB. It's limited
to 360X240 and you need to install special drivers, like any other
stupid USB device. I don't know what codec it uses as I never installed
the drivers for it (don't need headache like that).

I just hope peoples don't start screaming for USB capture on video
camera, that would be a major step backward (VHS visit Beta comes to
mind). Just imagine every time you rent a camera, you have to install
new drivers to capture your tape; that would be a nightmare and would
render any system useless after about a week of messing around with
driver's configuration and conflict (of course, one could buy a DV tape
deck, but not everybody can afford that).


--
Odysea video production
Come dive with us!
www.odysea.ca
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 2:04:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 06:29:14 -0700, "Richard Crowley"
<rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:

>I'm quite confident that those camera models that provide
>DV I/O via USB2 will state that fact quite prominently
>unless they somehow escape from the factory without the
>notice of the marketing department :-)
>In the absense of such information, it seems safe to assume
>that any particular device will NOT transfer DV via USB.

First of all, I have a problem with this newsgroup, in that my ISP
cuts off many of the postings. Thus, apparently there have been
replies to what I said that I cannot see with my news client -unless I
go to Google, which is a pain.

Anyway: cameras capable of transfering video (not stills) through USB,
don't do it as DV (so for DV you need Firewire -point), but as low
resolution and low quality mpeg, which is encoded on the fly by the
camera itself.

Weird, but JFYI.
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 2:58:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

In article <Q03_c.25905$Qa4.8580@twister.socal.rr.com>, a@b.c says...
>
> "Chris Phillipo" <cphillipo@ramsays-online.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1ba271fec414725a98a6da@news.eastlink.ca...
> > In article <m_%Zc.16891$aB1.12909@twister.socal.rr.com>, a@b.c says...
> >>
> >> The thing about USB only for stills is bunk, USB 2.0 has roughly the same
> >> transfer rate as firewire. (about 400MB/S). You need a capture device,
> >> something like the adaptec line.
> >> http://graphics.adaptec.com/pdfs/videoh_family.pdf
> >> http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/proddetail.htm...
> >>
> >>
> >
> > You need a capture device in order to use the USB cable? What the..?
> > --
> Don't you need something to convert the raw video into mpeg 1/2? Guess I
> might be wrong?
>
>
>

If that is your goal, but we are just talking about getting the DV from
tape to hard drive here, then you can do whatever you want to it. If
you have to compress it to mpeg2 before it even gets to your hard drive,
not many NLE programs are going to handle the video very well.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 3:00:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

> to 360X240 and you need to install special drivers, like any other
> stupid USB device. I don't know what codec it uses as I never installed
> the drivers for it (don't need headache like that).
>
> I just hope peoples don't start screaming for USB capture on video
> camera, that would be a major step backward (VHS visit Beta comes to
> mind). Just imagine every time you rent a camera, you have to install
> new drivers to capture your tape; that would be a nightmare and would
> render any system useless after about a week of messing around with
> driver's configuration and conflict (of course, one could buy a DV tape
> deck, but not everybody can afford that).
>
>
>

I find it interesting that just about any device I've seen that claims
it does DV through USB, also says that is is USB 1.1 compatible. If
that's the case then I'm sure the resolution is always limited.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 6:51:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"deco_time" <mako_city@BITMEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2pthvqFos4aoU1@uni-berlin.de...
> In news:Laurence Payne <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> typed:
> > On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 00:45:19 +0200, Bariloche
> > <bariloche@bariloche.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>> The USB interface is for still pictures.
> >>
> >> Not always -or so I've been told by some camera owners, that they
> >> would transfer mpeg video via USB. Weird, I admit it, but apparently
> >> real.
> >
> > Which camera models?
>
>
> I have a small TRV33 here that can stream video trough USB. It's limited
> to 360X240 and you need to install special drivers, like any other
> stupid USB device. I don't know what codec it uses as I never installed
> the drivers for it (don't need headache like that).
>
> I just hope peoples don't start screaming for USB capture on video
> camera, that would be a major step backward (VHS visit Beta comes to
> mind). Just imagine every time you rent a camera, you have to install
> new drivers to capture your tape; that would be a nightmare and would
> render any system useless after about a week of messing around with
> driver's configuration and conflict (of course, one could buy a DV tape
> deck, but not everybody can afford that).
>
I'm not sure it would be anywhere near as dire as you think.

Typically, you do not capture DV in the same sense that you capture analog.
A 1394 port is no more a video port than is a USB or SCSI port. All of these
port types just transfer files from one device to another. It feels like
video capture
because of the programs we use to transfer the files. They allow us to
shuttle
around in the file and select in points and out points. We tend to think of
DV,
Firewire, ilink, and IEEE 1394 as all being the same thing. Not exactly.

IEEE 1394 is a transfer protocol (very much like USB or RS-232)
i-link is Sony's fancy name for their implementation of IEEE 1394
Firewire is Apple's fancy name for their implementation of IEEE 1394
DV is the digital video format of the files you load through IEEE 1394

However those files can be transferred by any of these files. I can move
DV Files through SCSI, USB-2, or IEEE 1394 with equal ease from
external drives on my computers.

I don't think using USB-2 would not be an issue of loading new drivers.
The USB-2 drivers come installed on most systems these days. The camera
would have to be equipped to provide DV files in a manner acceptable to
the computer, and your video software that you use to bring in those files
would have to know how to use USB. Most current programs only
know how to access DV through an IEEE-1394 port.

USB-2 can handle similar data-rates to those available on most IEEE-1394
ports, but there is a new flavor of IEEE-1394 that can do double that rate.
This rate would be better for HD implementations or transferring DV at
double the speed of current systems, but your source deck or camcorder
would have to know how to do this. It could also be used for better quality
standard definition DV, but there isn't a lot of demand for that. I don't
think
the professional community has much interest in spending any more money on
standard definition equipment, and the current implementation of DV is fine
for consumer applications and low to medium level professional applications.

David
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 6:51:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

In news:D avid.mccall <david.mccallUNDERLINE@comcast.net> typed:

My point David was that IEEE 1394 (or "firewire" or "i Link") doesn't
need a specific driver for each device, all functions can be accessed
trough the VHPD1394 kernel driver, while each USB device needs it's own
WDM driver which can very rapidely complicate a system, cause all kinds
of conflicts etc... That the driver is included in Window or on a CD
doesn't change a thing, the thing still needs to be installed. What's
worse is that the only 2 things that can completely compromise a modern
computer is bad hardware or bad drivers, and the more drivers you
install, the more chances you get of stumbling on a bad one, or a
multiple of drivers that don't play well together. USB for video is a
bad idea, and I just hope that the money saving appeal (USB is cheaper
to implement) doesn't force us to ingest it.

--
Odysea video production
Come dive with us!
www.odysea.ca
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 8:55:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"deco_time" <mako_city@BITMEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2pu8abFphgaqU1@uni-berlin.de...
> In news:D avid.mccall <david.mccallUNDERLINE@comcast.net> typed:
>
> My point David was that IEEE 1394 (or "firewire" or "i Link") doesn't
> need a specific driver for each device, all functions can be accessed
> trough the VHPD1394 kernel driver, while each USB device needs it's own
> WDM driver which can very rapidely complicate a system, cause all kinds
> of conflicts etc... That the driver is included in Window or on a CD
> doesn't change a thing, the thing still needs to be installed. What's
> worse is that the only 2 things that can completely compromise a modern
> computer is bad hardware or bad drivers, and the more drivers you
> install, the more chances you get of stumbling on a bad one, or a
> multiple of drivers that don't play well together. USB for video is a
> bad idea, and I just hope that the money saving appeal (USB is cheaper
> to implement) doesn't force us to ingest it.
>
You may be right, but I don't recall having to install a specific driver for
any USB
device I've used with XP. It may be a different deal on some of the older
OSs.
As far as the computer is concerned, it's just data files, No? Your software
would
have to know how to deal with the fact that the data is coming in from the
USB
port instead of the 1394 or SDI ports, and the camera would have to be
designed
to export the DV files through the USB port instead of the 1394 port, but
beyond
that I wouldn't think it would be a big deal.

I can see no parallel between USB-2 and IEEE-1394 and Betamax VS VHS
except that Betamax cost more than VHS. Betamax's seniority was 90% a myth.
I own both plus Betacam SP (which is better than any VHS format, but even
more expensive.

David
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 8:55:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

In news:D avid.mccall <david.mccallUNDERLINE@comcast.net> typed:
>
> I can see no parallel between USB-2 and IEEE-1394 and Betamax VS VHS
> except that Betamax cost more than VHS. Betamax's seniority was 90% a
> myth. I own both plus Betacam SP (which is better than any VHS
> format, but even more expensive.
>
> David

The parallel was that VHS was an inferior product, and we got stuck with
it for over 20 years on account of price and marketing. I don't know
about 90% myth, but you have to agree that the Betamax cassette were
smaller, the tracking mechanism was simpler and a lot more robust and
image quality was better and even with all that going for it, it died.
--
Odysea video production
Come dive with us!
www.odysea.ca
September 4, 2004 10:30:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Chris Phillipo <cphillipo@ramsays-online.com> wrote:

>In article <m_%Zc.16891$aB1.12909@twister.socal.rr.com>, a@b.c says...
>>
>> The thing about USB only for stills is bunk, USB 2.0 has roughly the same
>> transfer rate as firewire. (about 400MB/S). You need a capture device,
>> something like the adaptec line.
>> http://graphics.adaptec.com/pdfs/videoh_family.pdf
>> http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/proddetail.htm...
>>
>>
>
>You need a capture device in order to use the USB cable? What the..?

This thing looks like an analog capture device not a DV capture..
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 10:55:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Mutley" <mutley90210REMOVE@hotmail.REMOVEcom> wrote in message
news:i6oij0dbqn0uhjt87mtl1aha00e9fi7p4n@4ax.com...
> Chris Phillipo <cphillipo@ramsays-online.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <m_%Zc.16891$aB1.12909@twister.socal.rr.com>, a@b.c says...
>>>
>>> The thing about USB only for stills is bunk, USB 2.0 has roughly the
>>> same
>>> transfer rate as firewire. (about 400MB/S). You need a capture device,
>>> something like the adaptec line.
>>> http://graphics.adaptec.com/pdfs/videoh_family.pdf
>>> http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/proddetail.htm...
>>>
>>>
>>
>>You need a capture device in order to use the USB cable? What the..?
>
> This thing looks like an analog capture device not a DV capture..

Gotcha, some good info here.
http://www.manifest-tech.com/premiere/dvcapture.htm#Ana...
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 10:58:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"david.mccall" wrote ...

> IEEE 1394 is a transfer protocol ...
> However those files can be transferred by any of these files....
> I don't think using USB-2 would not be an issue of loading new drivers.
....
> USB-2 can handle similar data-rates...

All that is true, and an interesting theoretical discussion.
However you left out the most critical piece, and the actual
answer to the original question....

If the manufacturer of the camera decides to implement DV input
and output only on the IEEE1394/Firewire/iLink port, then no
amount of wishing for USB (1 or 2) will make it so.

It is not really a matter of drivers either. If the camera won't
spit DV out the USB port, all the drivers ever written now or
in the future will coax a single bit of DV out of the camcorder.
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 11:02:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Bariloche" wrote ...
> First of all, I have a problem with this newsgroup, in that my ISP
> cuts off many of the postings. Thus, apparently there have been
> replies to what I said that I cannot see with my news client -unless I
> go to Google, which is a pain.

Your problem is with your ISP (or with whomever they sub-
contract NNTP service from). "This newsgroup" exists only
as a group of similarly-tagged messages that shtuttle around
the internet along with milions of others at any given moment.
Anonymous
September 5, 2004 3:04:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"deco_time" <mako_city@BITMEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2pub7mFpkd5cU1@uni-berlin.de...
> In news:D avid.mccall <david.mccallUNDERLINE@comcast.net> typed:
> >
> > I can see no parallel between USB-2 and IEEE-1394 and Betamax VS VHS
> > except that Betamax cost more than VHS. Betamax's seniority was 90% a
> > myth. I own both plus Betacam SP (which is better than any VHS
> > format, but even more expensive.
> >
> > David
>
> The parallel was that VHS was an inferior product, and we got stuck with
> it for over 20 years on account of price and marketing. I don't know
> about 90% myth, but you have to agree that the Betamax cassette were
> smaller, the tracking mechanism was simpler and a lot more robust and
> image quality was better and even with all that going for it, it died.
>
I bought a SL-HF-1000 Super Hi-band (6 mhz) prosumer Betamax machine
believing the claims that it was so much better than VHS. It's quality was
only marginally better than the best VHS, and couldn't compete with S-VHS.
It was more expensive, there were far fewer companies that manufactured
compatible tapes or machines. The recording time was less. Basically it
wasn't
competitive. I still have that machine with very low hours. It hasn't been
turned
on for at least a decade though.

It was an OK format, just not enough better to make it worth putting up with
Sony's bullshit. Betacam SP was a different story. Sony's offering beat the
offerings from Panasonic (M-2) by quite a margin. The specs, on paper, for
M-2 were at least as good as Betacam (Perhaps not as good as Betacam SP)
but the hardware was truly awful. M-2 was based on VHS and Betacam was
based on Betamax, so in that case Beta was better than VHS. I felt that
S-VHS,
as a consumer/prosumer format, was better than Betamax, and I never felt
that
the "professional" Betamax equipment was much to write home about either.

Yeah, it may have been slightly better but from what I could tell from the
$1200
prosumer deck I bought it wasn't a lot better. The SL-HF-1000 was the only
Betamax machine I ever owned though. Perhaps that was just a very poor
model.

David
Anonymous
September 5, 2004 4:44:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 15:21:54 GMT, "Kill Bill" <a@b.c> wrote:

>The thing about USB only for stills is bunk, USB 2.0 has roughly the same
>transfer rate as firewire. (about 400MB/S). You need a capture device,
>something like the adaptec line.

USB2 COULD handle video. But, generally, cameras aren't set up to do
this. Firewire is established as the video transfer system.
Anonymous
September 5, 2004 4:51:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 14:51:52 GMT, "david.mccall"
<david.mccallUNDERLINE@comcast.net> wrote:

>Typically, you do not capture DV in the same sense that you capture analog.
>A 1394 port is no more a video port than is a USB or SCSI port. All of these
>port types just transfer files from one device to another.

With the important provisio that video data transfer needs to be in
real time. The tape is playing, the data has to be sent NOW.

> It feels like
>video capture
>because of the programs we use to transfer the files. They allow us to
>shuttle
>around in the file and select in points and out points.

Does anyone still do this with DV? Why?
Anonymous
September 5, 2004 4:51:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:n3lkj0h6qfmhv79dfhtekflpqbljmlk80v@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 14:51:52 GMT, "david.mccall"
> <david.mccallUNDERLINE@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >Typically, you do not capture DV in the same sense that you capture
analog.
> >A 1394 port is no more a video port than is a USB or SCSI port. All of
these
> >port types just transfer files from one device to another.
>
> With the important provisio that video data transfer needs to be in
> real time. The tape is playing, the data has to be sent NOW.
>
That is true of all of the systems I have used, but you can transfer DV
video files
at at least double speed (if not 4x) if you have equipment with Q-SDI ports.
I've never used such a system, so I can't swear to it. I think there were DV
drives,
that fit into a 5 1/4" drive bay, that were capable of greater than
real-time transfer.

> > It feels like
> >video capture
> >because of the programs we use to transfer the files. They allow us to
> >shuttle
> >around in the file and select in points and out points.
>
> Does anyone still do this with DV? Why?
>
Force of habit? Sometimes you don't want, or need, all of the files on a
tape
to be transfered over to the computer.

David
Anonymous
September 5, 2004 4:52:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 13:10:09 -0400, "deco_time"
<mako_city@BITMEyahoo.com> wrote:

>
>The parallel was that VHS was an inferior product, and we got stuck with
>it for over 20 years on account of price and marketing. I don't know
>about 90% myth, but you have to agree that the Betamax cassette were
>smaller, the tracking mechanism was simpler and a lot more robust and
>image quality was better and even with all that going for it, it died.


Both systems have matured and developed since these attitudes were
formed.
September 6, 2004 10:57:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"deco_time" <mako_city@BITMEyahoo.com> wrote:

>In news:D avid.mccall <david.mccallUNDERLINE@comcast.net> typed:
>
>My point David was that IEEE 1394 (or "firewire" or "i Link") doesn't
>need a specific driver for each device, all functions can be accessed
>trough the VHPD1394 kernel driver, while each USB device needs it's own
>WDM driver which can very rapidely complicate a system, cause all kinds
>of conflicts etc... That the driver is included in Window or on a CD
>doesn't change a thing, the thing still needs to be installed. What's
>worse is that the only 2 things that can completely compromise a modern
>computer is bad hardware or bad drivers, and the more drivers you
>install, the more chances you get of stumbling on a bad one, or a
>multiple of drivers that don't play well together. USB for video is a
>bad idea, and I just hope that the money saving appeal (USB is cheaper
>to implement) doesn't force us to ingest it.

The other problem with USB is the high CPU overhead. I have a USB2
capture/tuner box. On capture it's pulling 98% CPU on a 2.4Gig
system compared to 45% for Firewire from my DV camcorder. I for one
don't want to see USB as the preferred method of DV transfer. I also
suspect that device control could be an issue with USB.
Anonymous
September 6, 2004 10:57:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Mutley" <mutley90210REMOVE@hotmail.REMOVEcom> wrote in message
news:8e2oj0div4dof3mp0llrjigg9arr8t6jcp@4ax.com...
>
> The other problem with USB is the high CPU overhead. I have a USB2
> capture/tuner box. On capture it's pulling 98% CPU on a 2.4Gig
> system compared to 45% for Firewire from my DV camcorder. I for one
> don't want to see USB as the preferred method of DV transfer. I also
> suspect that device control could be an issue with USB.
>
I'm not sure why device control would be an issue. As for your analog
tuner capture, I suspect your CPU is doing more than just managing
the transfer of a file from an external device to the hard drive.

I'm fine with every machine having both USB ports and a 1394.
It does add to the cost of the machines though. I do most of my
DV work on my laptop these days, the internal drive has a hard
time keeping up, so I use a USB-2 drive with the camera coming
in through the firewire. It works better than daisy chaining both
on the 1394 bus.

David
!