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"Switching" video in post...

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October 5, 2004 12:20:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

Hi,

I don't know the exact term for this, but...

I have filmed an interview between two people with 2 mini dv camcorders.
One camera is fixe to one, and the other camera, to the other.

Now, I was wondering, is there a software that would allow me to
"synchronise" the two stream (I have made a "click" sound at the beginning
and at the end), and play them simultaneously in two different window in
real time. And when I click on one, that would be the one outputed to the
new generated file, and then the video would continue, and if I click on the
other one, the video would switch to that one ?

I would be kind of having a video switcher but instead of being "live" it
would be done in post with 2 (or more) files.

Or must I do it manually in standard A/B roll. (I use UleadMediaStudio Pro
7)

Thanks you for any suggestions.

AA

More about : switching video post

Anonymous
October 5, 2004 2:46:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

I'm not aware of any software which will synchronize automatically.
However, it's very easy to do (I routinely do this in Premiere).

Put each stream on a separate video and audio track. Expand the view of the
audio track so that the waveform is visible. Align the two clicks manually.
Once the two streams are in sync, you can cut out pieces as necessary.

"AA" <AA@AA.COM> wrote in message
news:Ljw8d.7236$HO1.475215@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Hi,
>
> I don't know the exact term for this, but...
>
> I have filmed an interview between two people with 2 mini dv camcorders.
> One camera is fixe to one, and the other camera, to the other.
>
> Now, I was wondering, is there a software that would allow me to
> "synchronise" the two stream (I have made a "click" sound at the beginning
> and at the end), and play them simultaneously in two different window in
> real time. And when I click on one, that would be the one outputed to the
> new generated file, and then the video would continue, and if I click on
the
> other one, the video would switch to that one ?
>
> I would be kind of having a video switcher but instead of being "live" it
> would be done in post with 2 (or more) files.
>
> Or must I do it manually in standard A/B roll. (I use UleadMediaStudio
Pro
> 7)
>
> Thanks you for any suggestions.
>
> AA
>
>
October 5, 2004 6:08:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

Hi,

Thanks for your answer!

I may have badly explain my question...

I know how to synchronise the audio/video using a "click" sound for example.

The kind of software I looking for would be a "software video switcher".

For example, you feed in the mixer seperate DV streams. For example, let
say 2. In the "software video switcher", I would have two window that would
each display one of the DV stream. I could then select in real time the one
that I want to put in the output file. Just like a real video switcher
would do it.

There must be something in the software realm that would do that we dv file
as input ?




"PTravel" <ptravel@ruyitang.com> wrote in message
news:2sg50gF1ktr72U1@uni-berlin.de...
> I'm not aware of any software which will synchronize automatically.
> However, it's very easy to do (I routinely do this in Premiere).
>
> Put each stream on a separate video and audio track. Expand the view of
the
> audio track so that the waveform is visible. Align the two clicks
manually.
> Once the two streams are in sync, you can cut out pieces as necessary.
>
> "AA" <AA@AA.COM> wrote in message
> news:Ljw8d.7236$HO1.475215@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I don't know the exact term for this, but...
> >
> > I have filmed an interview between two people with 2 mini dv camcorders.
> > One camera is fixe to one, and the other camera, to the other.
> >
> > Now, I was wondering, is there a software that would allow me to
> > "synchronise" the two stream (I have made a "click" sound at the
beginning
> > and at the end), and play them simultaneously in two different window in
> > real time. And when I click on one, that would be the one outputed to
the
> > new generated file, and then the video would continue, and if I click on
> the
> > other one, the video would switch to that one ?
> >
> > I would be kind of having a video switcher but instead of being "live"
it
> > would be done in post with 2 (or more) files.
> >
> > Or must I do it manually in standard A/B roll. (I use UleadMediaStudio
> Pro
> > 7)
> >
> > Thanks you for any suggestions.
> >
> > AA
> >
> >
>
>
Related resources
October 5, 2004 6:08:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

Yes, there is such a thing. It's called Multicam available from United Media
Inc. at www.unitedmediainc.com.
Basically what you do is load your avi files in premiere, save the premiere
project file, open it up in Multicam, and then you do your post-switching,
it makes all the cuts, then you save it and go back to Premiere and make
whatever finishing touches you want.
I used to use Ulead MediaStudio Pro for this too, but I saved up and bought
this setup. I think Multicam requires a hardware capture card like a Canopus
DVStorm card, or Matrox but the site says it only needs a firewire card
now...hmmm....
Anyway, this product (I think its $600 for 4-cams or $300 for 2) is
definitely worth it if you do a lot of switching. It saves a ton of time!

Cory

"AA" <AA@AA.COM> wrote in message
news:QpB8d.9464$HO1.543253@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for your answer!
>
> I may have badly explain my question...
>
> I know how to synchronise the audio/video using a "click" sound for
example.
>
> The kind of software I looking for would be a "software video switcher".
>
> For example, you feed in the mixer seperate DV streams. For example, let
> say 2. In the "software video switcher", I would have two window that
would
> each display one of the DV stream. I could then select in real time the
one
> that I want to put in the output file. Just like a real video switcher
> would do it.
>
> There must be something in the software realm that would do that we dv
file
> as input ?
>
>
>
>
> "PTravel" <ptravel@ruyitang.com> wrote in message
> news:2sg50gF1ktr72U1@uni-berlin.de...
> > I'm not aware of any software which will synchronize automatically.
> > However, it's very easy to do (I routinely do this in Premiere).
> >
> > Put each stream on a separate video and audio track. Expand the view of
> the
> > audio track so that the waveform is visible. Align the two clicks
> manually.
> > Once the two streams are in sync, you can cut out pieces as necessary.
> >
> > "AA" <AA@AA.COM> wrote in message
> > news:Ljw8d.7236$HO1.475215@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I don't know the exact term for this, but...
> > >
> > > I have filmed an interview between two people with 2 mini dv
camcorders.
> > > One camera is fixe to one, and the other camera, to the other.
> > >
> > > Now, I was wondering, is there a software that would allow me to
> > > "synchronise" the two stream (I have made a "click" sound at the
> beginning
> > > and at the end), and play them simultaneously in two different window
in
> > > real time. And when I click on one, that would be the one outputed to
> the
> > > new generated file, and then the video would continue, and if I click
on
> > the
> > > other one, the video would switch to that one ?
> > >
> > > I would be kind of having a video switcher but instead of being "live"
> it
> > > would be done in post with 2 (or more) files.
> > >
> > > Or must I do it manually in standard A/B roll. (I use
UleadMediaStudio
> > Pro
> > > 7)
> > >
> > > Thanks you for any suggestions.
> > >
> > > AA
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 10:48:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

"AA" <AA@AA.COM> wrote in message
news:QpB8d.9464$HO1.543253@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for your answer!
>
> I may have badly explain my question...
>
> I know how to synchronise the audio/video using a "click" sound for
> example.
>
> The kind of software I looking for would be a "software video switcher".
>
> For example, you feed in the mixer seperate DV streams. For example, let
> say 2. In the "software video switcher", I would have two window that
> would
> each display one of the DV stream. I could then select in real time the
> one
> that I want to put in the output file. Just like a real video switcher
> would do it.
>
> There must be something in the software realm that would do that we dv
> file
> as input ?
>


Hmm... the two DV streams would not be 'genlocked' as they would in a
switcher. So incoming frames would have to be buffered and syncronized by
the software resulting in a small amount of latency.. probably 2 frames at
the least. Not really a problem I suppose.. This would probably not be too
hard to write. .. Someone somewhere may have written one already.

just thinking out loud..

Otherwise.. most of us use the method PTRAVEL suggested. There was a plugin
or app called MULTICAM I believe.. not sure if it had a live mode.. you may
want to check on that.
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 10:54:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

"Cory" <here@there.com> wrote in message
news:1XB8d.13081$mS1.7328@fed1read05...
> Yes, there is such a thing. It's called Multicam available from United
> Media
> Inc. at www.unitedmediainc.com.
> Basically what you do is load your avi files in premiere, save the
> premiere
> project file, open it up in Multicam, and then you do your post-switching,
> it makes all the cuts, then you save it and go back to Premiere and make
> whatever finishing touches you want.
> I used to use Ulead MediaStudio Pro for this too, but I saved up and
> bought
> this setup. I think Multicam requires a hardware capture card like a
> Canopus
> DVStorm card, or Matrox but the site says it only needs a firewire card
> now...hmmm....
> Anyway, this product (I think its $600 for 4-cams or $300 for 2) is
> definitely worth it if you do a lot of switching. It saves a ton of time!
>
> Cory
>
Did I misunderstand what he was looking for? I thought he wanted
to feed his computer multiple DV streams from outside the computer,
and then be able to switch those streams. I was unclear if he wanted the
switched output to go to a DV file, or out one of the 1394 ports for a live
feed.
It sounds possible, but I don't know of any software that can do that today.

I'm glad to hear that United Media finally got Multicam working in some
form.
That company ha been known for a long time as being full of bugs, promises,
and other smelly stuff. Their concepts have always been good though.

David
October 5, 2004 10:54:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

> Did I misunderstand what he was looking for? I thought he wanted
> to feed his computer multiple DV streams from outside the computer,
> and then be able to switch those streams. I was unclear if he wanted the
> switched output to go to a DV file, or out one of the 1394 ports for a
live
> feed.
> It sounds possible, but I don't know of any software that can do that
today.
>
> I'm glad to hear that United Media finally got Multicam working in some
> form.
> That company ha been known for a long time as being full of bugs,
promises,
> and other smelly stuff. Their concepts have always been good though.

Hmm reading the original post again, it kind of just sounds like he wants to
make the new file on the fly. But this is the closest thing to it that I
know.

Cory
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 11:06:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

"a-e-i-o-u-" <joseft@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:X%B8d.7060$nj.5570@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
> Hmm... the two DV streams would not be 'genlocked' as they would in a
> switcher. So incoming frames would have to be buffered and syncronized by
> the software resulting in a small amount of latency.. probably 2 frames at
> the least. Not really a problem I suppose.. This would probably not be
> too hard to write. .. Someone somewhere may have written one already.
>
> just thinking out loud..
>
I know that is true of timebase corection of analog signals, but you may be
able
to do a little better with digital sources. In the digital rehlm you could
delay the
audio by the same amount as the video to make them come out even. That
could be a problem in a live situation with an audiance watching/listening,
but would be OK for cablecast or dumping the output to a drive or tape.

I'm thinking "out loud" too

> Otherwise.. most of us use the method PTRAVEL suggested. There was a
> plugin or app called MULTICAM I believe.. not sure if it had a live mode..
> you may want to check on that.
>
I think Tim Duncan had a multicam plug-in for Vegas, but I've never seen it
in action.
It wouldn't be capable of multiple DV streams coming in through the 1394
ports though.

David
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 11:06:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

david.mccall wrote:
> snip <
> I think Tim Duncan had a multicam plug-in for Vegas, but I've never
> seen it in action.
> It wouldn't be capable of multiple DV streams coming in through the
> 1394 ports though.
>
> David


He did and used it for the 5-camera music video that was shot and edited on
a flight from New York to L.A.
It's called Excalibur. Current version is 3.0 (for Vegas 5.0b), it's only
$75 and is available at
http://www.vegastrainingandtools.com/plugins_excalibur....
There's a 15-use trial version to play with if you want.
David is right. It's not capable of multiple DV streams coming in through
the 1394 ports.

Mike
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 11:07:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

"david.mccall" <david.mccallUNDERLINE@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:VgC8d.73579$He1.72083@attbi_s01...
>
> "a-e-i-o-u-" <joseft@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:X%B8d.7060$nj.5570@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> Hmm... the two DV streams would not be 'genlocked' as they would in a
>> switcher. So incoming frames would have to be buffered and syncronized by
>> the software resulting in a small amount of latency.. probably 2 frames
>> at the least. Not really a problem I suppose.. This would probably not
>> be too hard to write. .. Someone somewhere may have written one already.
>>
>> just thinking out loud..
>>
> I know that is true of timebase corection of analog signals, but you may
> be able
> to do a little better with digital sources. In the digital rehlm you could
> delay the
> audio by the same amount as the video to make them come out even. That
> could be a problem in a live situation with an audiance
> watching/listening,
> but would be OK for cablecast or dumping the output to a drive or tape.
>
> I'm thinking "out loud" too
>
>> Otherwise.. most of us use the method PTRAVEL suggested. There was a
>> plugin or app called MULTICAM I believe.. not sure if it had a live
>> mode.. you may want to check on that.
>>
> I think Tim Duncan had a multicam plug-in for Vegas, but I've never seen
> it in action.
> It wouldn't be capable of multiple DV streams coming in through the 1394
> ports though.
>
> David
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 2:39:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

"Cory" <here@there.com> wrote in message
news:p 8F8d.13110$mS1.2427@fed1read05...
>> Did I misunderstand what he was looking for? I thought he wanted
>> to feed his computer multiple DV streams from outside the computer,
>> and then be able to switch those streams. I was unclear if he wanted the
>> switched output to go to a DV file, or out one of the 1394 ports for a
> live
>> feed.
>> It sounds possible, but I don't know of any software that can do that
> today.
>>
>> I'm glad to hear that United Media finally got Multicam working in some
>> form.
>> That company ha been known for a long time as being full of bugs,
> promises,
>> and other smelly stuff. Their concepts have always been good though.
>
> Hmm reading the original post again, it kind of just sounds like he wants
> to
> make the new file on the fly. But this is the closest thing to it that I
> know.
>
> Cory
>
I just went back to the original post, and I think you are right
he did seem looking for a NLE solution so you are right about
United Media's Multicam might be a solution.

I'll just say "never mind"

David
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 4:13:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

PTravel wrote:
> I'm not aware of any software which will synchronize automatically.
> However, it's very easy to do (I routinely do this in Premiere).
>
> Put each stream on a separate video and audio track. Expand the view of the
> audio track so that the waveform is visible. Align the two clicks manually.
> Once the two streams are in sync, you can cut out pieces as necessary.

Even better, just RAZOR the top track and DISable it. That way in case
you change your mind it's still there-- just ENable it.
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 10:48:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

In article <loF8d.311651$mD.100211@attbi_s02>,
"david.mccall" <david.mccallUNDERLINE@comcast.net> wrote:

> "Cory" <here@there.com> wrote in message
> news:p 8F8d.13110$mS1.2427@fed1read05...
> >> Did I misunderstand what he was looking for? I thought he wanted
> >> to feed his computer multiple DV streams from outside the computer,
> >> and then be able to switch those streams. I was unclear if he wanted the
> >> switched output to go to a DV file, or out one of the 1394 ports for a
> > live
> >> feed.
> >> It sounds possible, but I don't know of any software that can do that
> > today.
> >>
> >> I'm glad to hear that United Media finally got Multicam working in some
> >> form.
> >> That company ha been known for a long time as being full of bugs,
> > promises,
> >> and other smelly stuff. Their concepts have always been good though.
> >
> > Hmm reading the original post again, it kind of just sounds like he wants
> > to
> > make the new file on the fly. But this is the closest thing to it that I
> > know.
> >
> > Cory
> >
> I just went back to the original post, and I think you are right
> he did seem looking for a NLE solution so you are right about
> United Media's Multicam might be a solution.
>
> I'll just say "never mind"
>
> David

Just to add another wrinkle,

MacroSystems, the maker of the Casablanca line of standalone editing
appliances just sent me one of their new Solitaire systems with their
new Multi-cam editing packages for review for a future edition of
Videomaker.

The Multicam package is supposed to be purpose-designed to do precisely
what the original poster wants - Digitize multi-camera shots then easily
sync and intercut them.

I'm plugging it in today - should have preliminary data by the end of
the week on how well it works.

For what it's worth.
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 5:07:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:48:23 GMT, "a-e-i-o-u-" <joseft@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

>Otherwise.. most of us use the method PTRAVEL suggested. There was a plugin
>or app called MULTICAM I believe.. not sure if it had a live mode.. you may
>want to check on that.

IIRC Aid Xpress Pro has this built-in. But hey, we are talking a
different price-range then Multicam now.

cheers

-martin-

--
Can the terror of spam be included in the war on terror?
October 7, 2004 5:42:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

> The Multicam package is supposed to be purpose-designed to do precisely
> what the original poster wants - Digitize multi-camera shots then easily
> sync and intercut them.
>

That sounds interesting. Can't wait to hear about it! Hey, what's the price
range on it? Any idea?

Cory
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 8:39:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

Seattle Eric <noone@erehwon.gov> wrote in message news:<cjvdaj$8l2$0$216.39.144.53@theriver.com>...
> PTravel wrote:
> > I'm not aware of any software which will synchronize automatically.
> > However, it's very easy to do (I routinely do this in Premiere).
> >
> > Put each stream on a separate video and audio track. Expand the view of the
> > audio track so that the waveform is visible. Align the two clicks manually.
> > Once the two streams are in sync, you can cut out pieces as necessary.
>
> Even better, just RAZOR the top track and DISable it. That way in case
> you change your mind it's still there-- just ENable it.

Could you expand on this a little? What do you mean by disable/enable
of the track? You've lost me!
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 12:20:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

stankley wrote:

> Could you expand on this a little? What do you mean by disable/enable
> of the track? You've lost me!

This is covered in your documentation.
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 4:05:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 01:42:17 -0700, "Cory" <here@there.com> wrote:

>> The Multicam package is supposed to be purpose-designed to do precisely
>> what the original poster wants - Digitize multi-camera shots then easily
>> sync and intercut them.
>>
>
>That sounds interesting. Can't wait to hear about it! Hey, what's the price
>range on it? Any idea?

I've got the United Media 4 Camera program. Price is about $500
list, can't remember what we paid. The two-cam program is cheaper.

It works by loading the project -- mine is for Premiere 6.5, I think
that they make it for other apps, then syncing the video in it. It
then plays all of the tracks at once, with small preview monitor
windows, and lets you "switch" cameras as it plays by pressing keys
(or mouse or whatever). You can do edits as well, but the play and
switch method is fastest, and most intuitive. It has nice syncing
tools, including for those lucky enough to have them, by locked camera
time code. But it is pretty easy to sync on sound or video by
watching two sources, then adjusting the timing back and forth until
it is aligned.

Once you get all of your camera picks chosen, it cuts them into a
final A/B (two track) version, with overlap for transitions if you
want. Then, you just load the output into Premiere, and go on editing
from there.

I've tried doing this sort of selection within Premiere, even made a
picture in picture overlay to make choosing cameras easier, but it
never gets that easy. Multicam is a way better method of selecting
between cameras for a multicamera shoot.

It would be cool for a good editing app to include this facility,
since it isn't an uncommon sort of action.
--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/&gt;
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/&gt;
October 7, 2004 4:05:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

> I've got the United Media 4 Camera program. Price is about $500
> list, can't remember what we paid. The two-cam program is cheaper.
>
> It works by loading the project -- mine is for Premiere 6.5, I think
> that they make it for other apps, then syncing the video in it. It
> then plays all of the tracks at once, with small preview monitor
> windows, and lets you "switch" cameras as it plays by pressing keys
> (or mouse or whatever). You can do edits as well, but the play and
> switch method is fastest, and most intuitive. It has nice syncing
> tools, including for those lucky enough to have them, by locked camera
> time code. But it is pretty easy to sync on sound or video by
> watching two sources, then adjusting the timing back and forth until
> it is aligned.

Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I was actually talking about the
MacroSystems Casablanca program. I have Multicam (4cam) and described how it
works earlier in the thread too lol. Actually, I went in and used ResHack to
create an extra monitor window for my spliced video so now my live video
output is always fullscreen on my second screen. Kinda fun! :-P

Cory
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 9:17:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

Jeffery S. Jones wrote:
> It would be cool for a good editing app to include this facility,
> since it isn't an uncommon sort of action.

It might be cool, but in twenty years I've needed to do this exactly once.
October 7, 2004 9:35:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

> > It would be cool for a good editing app to include this facility,
> > since it isn't an uncommon sort of action.
>
> It might be cool, but in twenty years I've needed to do this exactly once.

Well good thing people don't just have to accomodate you! There are plenty
of us that do multicaming! I film a lot of musicals and some weddings, and
this is a time saver for am and all the rest of the people that do stuff
like that.

Cory
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 11:44:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

Jeffery S. Jones wrote:
> snip <
> I've got the United Media 4 Camera program. Price is about $500
> list, can't remember what we paid. The two-cam program is cheaper.
>
> It works by loading the project -- mine is for Premiere 6.5, I think
> that they make it for other apps, then syncing the video in it. It
> then plays all of the tracks at once, with small preview monitor
> windows, and lets you "switch" cameras as it plays by pressing keys
> (or mouse or whatever). You can do edits as well, but the play and
> switch method is fastest, and most intuitive. It has nice syncing
> tools, including for those lucky enough to have them, by locked camera
> time code. But it is pretty easy to sync on sound or video by
> watching two sources, then adjusting the timing back and forth until
> it is aligned.
>
> Once you get all of your camera picks chosen, it cuts them into a
> final A/B (two track) version, with overlap for transitions if you
> want. Then, you just load the output into Premiere, and go on editing
> from there.
>
> I've tried doing this sort of selection within Premiere, even made a
> picture in picture overlay to make choosing cameras easier, but it
> never gets that easy. Multicam is a way better method of selecting
> between cameras for a multicamera shoot.
>
> It would be cool for a good editing app to include this facility,
> since it isn't an uncommon sort of action.


Vegas ($500 or less - does multicam right out of the box) + Excalibur
(superb multicam plugin for only $75 from
http://www.vegastrainingandtools.com/plugins_excalibur.... ) and you're all
set.

Mike
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 1:03:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

The old FAST Video Machine and its software VM Studio had contained in it a
6 channel live switcher.
Bryan
"AA" <AA@AA.COM> wrote in message
news:Ljw8d.7236$HO1.475215@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Hi,
>
> I don't know the exact term for this, but...
>
> I have filmed an interview between two people with 2 mini dv camcorders.
> One camera is fixe to one, and the other camera, to the other.
>
> Now, I was wondering, is there a software that would allow me to
> "synchronise" the two stream (I have made a "click" sound at the beginning
> and at the end), and play them simultaneously in two different window in
> real time. And when I click on one, that would be the one outputed to the
> new generated file, and then the video would continue, and if I click on
the
> other one, the video would switch to that one ?
>
> I would be kind of having a video switcher but instead of being "live" it
> would be done in post with 2 (or more) files.
>
> Or must I do it manually in standard A/B roll. (I use UleadMediaStudio
Pro
> 7)
>
> Thanks you for any suggestions.
>
> AA
>
>
October 8, 2004 1:03:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

> The old FAST Video Machine and its software VM Studio had contained in it
a
> 6 channel live switcher.

Do you know of the website for that?

Cory
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 3:47:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

Cory wrote:
>>> It would be cool for a good editing app to include this facility,
>>>since it isn't an uncommon sort of action.
>>
>>It might be cool, but in twenty years I've needed to do this exactly once.
>
>
> Well good thing people don't just have to accomodate you! There are plenty
> of us that do multicaming! I film a lot of musicals and some weddings, and
> this is a time saver for am and all the rest of the people that do stuff
> like that.
>
My point was, which I didn't make, "is the market big enough to JUSTIFY
the app developers, versus the PLUGIN developers, which has different
considerations?"

IOW, were I the Premiere product manager, I might say, "Screw 'em, this
tiny market can use the available plugins-- it's not worth our while."
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 6:11:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

In article <2sm2nmF1mo6f9U1@uni-berlin.de>,
"Mike Kujbida" <kujfam-misleadingspam@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> Jeffery S. Jones wrote:
> > snip <
> > I've got the United Media 4 Camera program. Price is about $500
> > list, can't remember what we paid. The two-cam program is cheaper.
> >
> > It works by loading the project -- mine is for Premiere 6.5, I think
> > that they make it for other apps, then syncing the video in it. It
> > then plays all of the tracks at once, with small preview monitor
> > windows, and lets you "switch" cameras as it plays by pressing keys
> > (or mouse or whatever). You can do edits as well, but the play and
> > switch method is fastest, and most intuitive. It has nice syncing
> > tools, including for those lucky enough to have them, by locked camera
> > time code. But it is pretty easy to sync on sound or video by
> > watching two sources, then adjusting the timing back and forth until
> > it is aligned.
> >
> > Once you get all of your camera picks chosen, it cuts them into a
> > final A/B (two track) version, with overlap for transitions if you
> > want. Then, you just load the output into Premiere, and go on editing
> > from there.
> >
> > I've tried doing this sort of selection within Premiere, even made a
> > picture in picture overlay to make choosing cameras easier, but it
> > never gets that easy. Multicam is a way better method of selecting
> > between cameras for a multicamera shoot.
> >
> > It would be cool for a good editing app to include this facility,
> > since it isn't an uncommon sort of action.
>
>
> Vegas ($500 or less - does multicam right out of the box) + Excalibur
> (superb multicam plugin for only $75 from
> http://www.vegastrainingandtools.com/plugins_excalibur.... ) and you're all
> set.
>
> Mike

Well, using the same limited set of criteria I can equally truthfully
say that Final Cut Pro and Premier PRO (and MANY others) ALSO "do
multicam" right out of the box!

In fact, "any" NLE that supports multiple video tracks will be quite
happy to let you stack, 2, 3, or even 99 camera shots on your timeline -
manually sync them up - and "switch" between them just by cuting out
sections of track and letting those behind it show through.

And ALL of these programs ALSO allow you to squeeze your video tracks
down into quarter screen or smaller boxes so that you can play back
multicam footage on a single screen so that you can efficiently pick
your shots.

Also, depending on the horsepower of your system and the data rate you
select for capture, you can also do much of what a purpose-built
"multi-cam" system provides in terms of "real time" previewing and scene
selection.

This isn't rocket science, after all!

From what I could tell from a brief look at the Excalibur website, it
seems to indicate that all Excalibur does is provide an easier interface
for a varitey of tasks: Sync, Randomize,Multi-Cam,Marker,Tally
Update,Velocity,Gap,Orphan,Duration, Align A/V,Voice-Over,Fade - that
are ALREADY present in many other programs in the category.

If you want to pay a company $75 bucks to provide you with an "easier
software interface" than what's already built in the program, fine -
free enterprise and all.

But none of these solutions, address real time *live* multicam software
switching - the original posters interest.
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 6:24:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

In article <wql9d.3340$_a3.2965@fed1read05>, "Cory" <here@there.com>
wrote:

> > The old FAST Video Machine and its software VM Studio had contained in it
> a
> > 6 channel live switcher.
>
> Do you know of the website for that?
>
> Cory

It's functionally obsolete and no longer being sold or supported.

Same with the Play Trinity which was a big purpose-built box with huge
cards that was designed to be a killer software controlled live switcher
- but which bit the dust because they over-promised and under-delivered
in bringing the technology to market. *(and also, in fairness, because
of the untimely death of one of the company's principals)

The actual fact is that if you want to do hardware switching, it's
probably best to DO hardware switching.

I don't think there's a great totally digital/software solution out
there.

That said I was talking to a guy yesterday who does worship video stuff
who said he's using the new JVC Streamcorders with some kind of hardware
based switching - in packages for churchs and he's kinda jazzed about
that because he can get camera control with pan and tilt, zoom and
focus, plus the ability to do what sounds a little like traditional
painting or shading of the cameras remotely via some kind of wired
protocol.

I guess they're doing big screen "sorta iMAG type" support for large
church services and he said he could get a 3 camera remote system for
the cost of one of the big cameras they used to buy to shoot their
church stuff.

I don't do that kinda work, so don't ask me.

For what it's worth.
October 8, 2004 7:19:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

> In fact, "any" NLE that supports multiple video tracks will be quite
> happy to let you stack, 2, 3, or even 99 camera shots on your timeline -
> manually sync them up - and "switch" between them just by cuting out
> sections of track and letting those behind it show through.

That's not the point! That's making you do it manually. Multicam
automatically removes footage you don't want and saves HOURS.

> But none of these solutions, address real time *live* multicam software
> switching - the original posters interest.

Not true! Come on, please read carefully.
"I would be kind of having a video switcher but instead of being "live" it
would be done in post with 2 (or more) files."

Cory
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 8:22:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

>Jeffery S. Jones wrote:
>> It would be cool for a good editing app to include this facility,
>> since it isn't an uncommon sort of action.

The way I multicam edit with Vegas might work for other applications. All
you need to be able to do is set each cam/track into it's own window (pip) with
track motion, and ability to split all tracks at one time (except locked audio
tracks).
In fact, Vegas Movie Studio for $99.00 will let you mix a two cam show like
butter. Two track mix down to single track gives you back two tracks for
titles/graphics.
Btw, VMS now uses the Sony DV codec and dvd architech.

Craig H.
October 8, 2004 9:15:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

Thank you all for your answer!

The "MultiCam" software that some of you pointed me to is what I was looking
for!

But I don't intend on spending 500$ for that kind of tool! Way too much
for such a simple tool!

In my "day job", I'm a full time programmer and decided on making myself
such a utility! I'll try at first with 2 dv files, but if all goes well,
I'll increase the number.

I won't write to a premiere project because I don't have the adobe premiere
SDK or file description/detail. I'll instead white directly to a dv type-2
file. Much simpler!

Anyway, if any of you are interested, I'd be more than happy to share it
with you when it's done....

Great many thanks to all of you who answered my original request!

Bye!






"AA" <AA@AA.COM> wrote in message
news:Ljw8d.7236$HO1.475215@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Hi,
>
> I don't know the exact term for this, but...
>
> I have filmed an interview between two people with 2 mini dv camcorders.
> One camera is fixe to one, and the other camera, to the other.
>
> Now, I was wondering, is there a software that would allow me to
> "synchronise" the two stream (I have made a "click" sound at the beginning
> and at the end), and play them simultaneously in two different window in
> real time. And when I click on one, that would be the one outputed to the
> new generated file, and then the video would continue, and if I click on
the
> other one, the video would switch to that one ?
>
> I would be kind of having a video switcher but instead of being "live" it
> would be done in post with 2 (or more) files.
>
> Or must I do it manually in standard A/B roll. (I use UleadMediaStudio
Pro
> 7)
>
> Thanks you for any suggestions.
>
> AA
>
>
October 8, 2004 9:15:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

> I won't write to a premiere project because I don't have the adobe
premiere
> SDK or file description/detail. I'll instead white directly to a dv
type-2
> file. Much simpler!

Just to clarify so we're all on the same page, how exactly are you going to
do this?

Cory
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 11:08:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

AA wrote:
> Thank you all for your answer!
>
> The "MultiCam" software that some of you pointed me to is what I was
> looking for!


Vegas does come in a low-end version called Vegas Movie Studio + DVD for
only $100. Not quite as feature packed as Vegas but it's also a lot less.


> But I don't intend on spending 500$ for that kind of tool! Way too
> much for such a simple tool!
>
> In my "day job", I'm a full time programmer and decided on making
> myself such a utility! I'll try at first with 2 dv files, but if
> all goes well, I'll increase the number.
>
> I won't write to a premiere project because I don't have the adobe
> premiere SDK or file description/detail. I'll instead white
> directly to a dv type-2 file. Much simpler!



Good luck with it. Let us know if you're successful.


> Anyway, if any of you are interested, I'd be more than happy to share
> it with you when it's done....


Thanks!!


> Great many thanks to all of you who answered my original request!
>
> Bye!
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 11:29:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

"Seattle Eric" <noone@erehwon.gov> wrote in message
news:4166e0b7$0$20520$8b463f8a@blackhole.shreve.net...
>
>
> Cory wrote:
>>>> It would be cool for a good editing app to include this facility,
>>>>since it isn't an uncommon sort of action.
>>>
>>>It might be cool, but in twenty years I've needed to do this exactly
>>>once.
>>
>>
>> Well good thing people don't just have to accomodate you! There are
>> plenty
>> of us that do multicaming! I film a lot of musicals and some weddings,
>> and
>> this is a time saver for am and all the rest of the people that do stuff
>> like that.
>>
> My point was, which I didn't make, "is the market big enough to JUSTIFY
> the app developers, versus the PLUGIN developers, which has different
> considerations?"
>
> IOW, were I the Premiere product manager, I might say, "Screw 'em, this
> tiny market can use the available plugins-- it's not worth our while."
>
The market may grow though. There are millions of people out there with
DV camcorders and they can go to an event and tape it, then bring it home
and cut the footage from all of the cameras together on the computer.

Of course most people will never get around to it in reality, but it is a
selling point. The need for multicamera editing does come up.

I can see why people want to roll it in on the fly, just like it was live,
but
most of us probably don't need it as much as we once thought we did.

Don't be surprised if NLEs have this feature as part of the standard
"tool set", within the next few generations. The off the shelf computers,
and their hard drives, aren't really fast enough to do this task well, yet.

Unfortunately, by the time CPUs and drives get fast enough, we are
all going to want to do it in Hi-Def, so we will be waiting again.

David
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 11:31:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

William Davis wrote:
> In article <2sm2nmF1mo6f9U1@uni-berlin.de>,
> "Mike Kujbida" <kujfam-misleadingspam@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> Jeffery S. Jones wrote:
>>> snip <
>>> I've got the United Media 4 Camera program. Price is about $500
>>> list, can't remember what we paid. The two-cam program is cheaper.
>>>
>>> It works by loading the project -- mine is for Premiere 6.5, I
>>> think that they make it for other apps, then syncing the video in
>>> it. It then plays all of the tracks at once, with small preview
>>> monitor windows, and lets you "switch" cameras as it plays by
>>> pressing keys (or mouse or whatever). You can do edits as well,
>>> but the play and switch method is fastest, and most intuitive. It
>>> has nice syncing tools, including for those lucky enough to have
>>> them, by locked camera time code. But it is pretty easy to sync on
>>> sound or video by watching two sources, then adjusting the timing
>>> back and forth until it is aligned.
>>>
>>> Once you get all of your camera picks chosen, it cuts them into a
>>> final A/B (two track) version, with overlap for transitions if you
>>> want. Then, you just load the output into Premiere, and go on
>>> editing from there.
>>>
>>> I've tried doing this sort of selection within Premiere, even
>>> made a picture in picture overlay to make choosing cameras easier,
>>> but it never gets that easy. Multicam is a way better method of
>>> selecting between cameras for a multicamera shoot.
>>>
>>> It would be cool for a good editing app to include this facility,
>>> since it isn't an uncommon sort of action.
>>
>>
>> Vegas ($500 or less - does multicam right out of the box) + Excalibur
>> (superb multicam plugin for only $75 from
>> http://www.vegastrainingandtools.com/plugins_excalibur.... ) and
>> you're all set.
>>
>> Mike
>
> Well, using the same limited set of criteria I can equally truthfully
> say that Final Cut Pro and Premier PRO (and MANY others) ALSO "do
> multicam" right out of the box!
>
> In fact, "any" NLE that supports multiple video tracks will be quite
> happy to let you stack, 2, 3, or even 99 camera shots on your
> timeline - manually sync them up - and "switch" between them just by
> cuting out sections of track and letting those behind it show through.
>
> And ALL of these programs ALSO allow you to squeeze your video tracks
> down into quarter screen or smaller boxes so that you can play back
> multicam footage on a single screen so that you can efficiently pick
> your shots.
>
> Also, depending on the horsepower of your system and the data rate you
> select for capture, you can also do much of what a purpose-built
> "multi-cam" system provides in terms of "real time" previewing and
> scene selection.
>
> This isn't rocket science, after all!
>
> From what I could tell from a brief look at the Excalibur website, it
> seems to indicate that all Excalibur does is provide an easier
> interface for a varitey of tasks: Sync,
> Randomize,Multi-Cam,Marker,Tally Update,Velocity,Gap,Orphan,Duration,
> Align A/V,Voice-Over,Fade - that are ALREADY present in many other
> programs in the category.
>
> If you want to pay a company $75 bucks to provide you with an "easier
> software interface" than what's already built in the program, fine -
> free enterprise and all.
>
> But none of these solutions, address real time *live* multicam
> software switching - the original posters interest.


Bill;

The OP was not looking for "real time *live* multicam software switching".
BTW, that's easily handled with the Video Toaster.

The OP's question was
"I have filmed an interview between two people with 2 mini dv camcorders.
One camera is fixe to one, and the other camera, to the other. Now, I was
wondering, is there a software that would allow me to "synchronise" the two
stream (I have made a "click" sound at the beginning and at the end), and
play them simultaneously in two different window in real time."

If the OP had done a search on this NG, he/she would've discovered that this
question has been asked numerous times and that the answer always is "not at
this time with the current technology".

Everyone, myself included, has been offering suggestions on ways to
accomplish this with various pieces of software.

I mentioned Vegas because I use it (amongst other apps) and one of the major
strengths of Vegas is the speed and ease of doing a multicam edit - along
with almost everything else it does. I've run Vegas 4 on a Windows 98 box
with 128 MB of Ram and it works. Vegas 5 requires W2K or XP but it'll still
run on a 1 GHz machine with the same 128 MB of Ram. Granted, a P4 3.4 GHz
machine kicks serious butt but the point is that the code is so well written
that even a low-end user can run it successfully.

I've read a lot of posts, both here and elsewhere, of people making the
switch from Premiere/Avid/FCP to Vegas and not regretting it for a moment.
I have yet to read anything from anyone who's gone from Vegas to anything
else (with the exception of doing so because they need RS-422 for deck
control which Vegas currently doesn't have - but will as soon as BlackMagic
releases their plug-in for it).

As far as Excalibur is concerned, yes, I'd gladly pay the $75 for something
that would save me time. As you (and others) have said numerous times, time
is money. Therefore, If Excalibur can save me even one hour for an edit,
that's money in my pocket. 2 o3 edits and it's paid for itself.

As far as plug-ins in general are concerned, I'm guessing that you probably
have a few on your FCP suite. I know that it doesn't come with absolutely
everything you ever need. No NLE system going ever does. That's why the
need for plug-ins. The great thing about Vegas is that most of them are
available for very little money and are packed with features that make the
editor's life easier.

You're a die-hard Mac user and I know I'll never convince you to consider
Vegas (even though it's audio tools blow FCP away >grin<). By the same
token, I'm very happy with it and would never consider switching to a Mac.
Each to his/her own.


Mike
Anonymous
October 9, 2004 12:17:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 19:29:24 GMT, "david.mccall"
<david.mccallUNDERLINE@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>"Seattle Eric" <noone@erehwon.gov> wrote in message
>news:4166e0b7$0$20520$8b463f8a@blackhole.shreve.net...
>>
>>
>> Cory wrote:
>>>>> It would be cool for a good editing app to include this facility,
>>>>>since it isn't an uncommon sort of action.
>>>>
>>>>It might be cool, but in twenty years I've needed to do this exactly
>>>>once.
>>>
>>>
>>> Well good thing people don't just have to accomodate you! There are
>>> plenty
>>> of us that do multicaming! I film a lot of musicals and some weddings,
>>> and
>>> this is a time saver for am and all the rest of the people that do stuff
>>> like that.
>>>
>> My point was, which I didn't make, "is the market big enough to JUSTIFY
>> the app developers, versus the PLUGIN developers, which has different
>> considerations?"
>>
>> IOW, were I the Premiere product manager, I might say, "Screw 'em, this
>> tiny market can use the available plugins-- it's not worth our while."
>
>The market may grow though. There are millions of people out there with
>DV camcorders and they can go to an event and tape it, then bring it home
>and cut the footage from all of the cameras together on the computer.

I don't think it is a tiny market at all. Event videographers using
multiple cameras is normal, not a rarity.

What *is* an issue is the CPU power in order to manage playing
several DV streams in their own separate windows, while also having an
"output" window, all in real time as the editing progresses. That is
why United Media's Premiere plugin app costs.

More CPU power should make this sort of thing more attractive to
include as a native feature.

>Of course most people will never get around to it in reality, but it is a
>selling point. The need for multicamera editing does come up.

A lot will. Prior to going NLE, I did lots of A/B roll -- two
camera -- switched either live or via an EDL. Once you do it for a
project, it not only becomes entirely natural, you'll wonder how you
ever got by without it. A two camera shoot with a couple hundred
camera cuts per hour can be done in a little over an hour (plus
syncing time and other evaluation) using a live-play-and-choose tool.
Trying to manually set up each and every cut when you have so many to
do, especially when the pattern is entirey predictable, is just
unnecessary busywork.

>I can see why people want to roll it in on the fly, just like it was live,
>but
>most of us probably don't need it as much as we once thought we did.

Maybe it's because I'm used to doing A/B roll, and live switching,
but I find it much easier and intuitive to select camera angles live.
Even if I must pause for each cut in order to process it (whether by
manual methods or some automated tool), being able to see all the
camera angles clearly at once makes the decision-making much easier.

>Don't be surprised if NLEs have this feature as part of the standard
>"tool set", within the next few generations. The off the shelf computers,
>and their hard drives, aren't really fast enough to do this task well, yet.

That could be part of it. I'm not sure what United Media's Multicam
CPU requirements are, but I have a version which requires a real time
board. Having access to a real time multi-stream DV processing chip
may be necessary, at least for now, in order to handle the virtual
"preview" monitors for the software A/B (C, D, however many cameras
you might get) switcher.

>Unfortunately, by the time CPUs and drives get fast enough, we are
>all going to want to do it in Hi-Def, so we will be waiting again.

That could be true. Or else, we'll still be stuck with specialized
real time/accelerator boards in order to manage, because the CPU
speeds still aren't up to the task we want.

Actually, I suspect that the RT boards of some sort will be around
for a very long time. The things which the CPU can't do in real time
may change, but we'll always find more things we'd like to do without
waiting.



--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/&gt;
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/&gt;
Anonymous
October 9, 2004 7:04:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

On 5/10/04 10:20 PM, AA wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I don't know the exact term for this, but...
>
> I have filmed an interview between two people with 2 mini dv camcorders.
> One camera is fixe to one, and the other camera, to the other.
>
> Now, I was wondering, is there a software that would allow me to
> "synchronise" the two stream (I have made a "click" sound at the beginning
> and at the end), and play them simultaneously in two different window in
> real time. And when I click on one, that would be the one outputed to the
> new generated file, and then the video would continue, and if I click on the
> other one, the video would switch to that one ?
>
> I would be kind of having a video switcher but instead of being "live" it
> would be done in post with 2 (or more) files.
>
> Or must I do it manually in standard A/B roll. (I use UleadMediaStudio Pro
> 7)
>
> Thanks you for any suggestions.
>
> AA
>
>
The obvious answer is to get some cheap hardware that can do it. The
smallest second-hand vision switcher that can do the job, plus two input
DV decks (your cameras in VCR mode) and a recorder (your computer).
Shouldn't cost very much at all, and it would be more versatile.
October 12, 2004 12:20:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

Hi,

Here is what I have in mind... (Need to be tested and implemented)

I will have an application that will open 2 or more AVI files (DV files,
probably Type-2 because they are usually easier to play with using the
standard API.)

For the first version, I think I will have to sync up the files with an
external app. But in a future version, I should be able to do it directly
in it.

I would choose to either switch audio from stream to stream or lock it to
use always the same stream. In past experience, I always prefer to use the
same audio track even when switching camera.

After that I would hit <play>. All AVI files would start to play, probably
at a lower resolution for display speed purposes. I would then either
"click" on a window displaying a files to have that become the "outputed"
one, of use a shortcut key.

Maybe version one would not write directly to file but simply "record" in
memory the frame number when the switching occured and with what file.
After that, it could be played back and displayed with the "edited
switching" and changes could be maid.

When all is done, I would simply write the file to a standard AVI file.

This will be a spare time project!

:-)







"Cory" <here@there.com> wrote in message
news:ZpE9d.6062$_a3.100@fed1read05...
> > I won't write to a premiere project because I don't have the adobe
> premiere
> > SDK or file description/detail. I'll instead white directly to a dv
> type-2
> > file. Much simpler!
>
> Just to clarify so we're all on the same page, how exactly are you going
to
> do this?
>
> Cory
>
>
Anonymous
October 12, 2004 8:32:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

AA wrote:

>
> After that I would hit <play>. All AVI files would start to play, probably
> at a lower resolution for display speed purposes. I would then either
> "click" on a window displaying a files to have that become the "outputed"
> one, of use a shortcut key.


As an interface geek, I'd say "Use the number pad".
Anonymous
October 14, 2004 7:28:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

In rec.video.production AA <AA@aa.com> wrote:
> Here is what I have in mind... (Need to be tested and implemented)

I want this program!
October 14, 2004 7:28:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

"Kevin" <kevin@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:ckm5v0$5en$3@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca...
> In rec.video.production AA <AA@aa.com> wrote:
> > Here is what I have in mind... (Need to be tested and implemented)
>
> I want this program!
>

Seriously. I wonder how he's gonna make it work.

Cory
Anonymous
October 15, 2004 1:58:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:20:36 -0400, "AA" <AA@AA.COM> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Here is what I have in mind... (Need to be tested and implemented)
>
>I will have an application that will open 2 or more AVI files (DV files,
>probably Type-2 because they are usually easier to play with using the
>standard API.)
>
>For the first version, I think I will have to sync up the files with an
>external app. But in a future version, I should be able to do it directly
>in it.

Once you're doing the sync'ing inside the program, it is getting
closer to being some sort of basic video editor itself. But I think
you'd need that, in order to be most useful.

Actually, really useful, as most editing apps don't have simple,
quick, easy tools to slide clips around on the fly. Being able to
view both streams, listen to them, and shift them in time with simple
keyboard shortcuts would make the syncing up process easier.

>I would choose to either switch audio from stream to stream or lock it to
>use always the same stream. In past experience, I always prefer to use the
>same audio track even when switching camera.

I find that syncing by playing both audio tracks is useful,
especially when visual cues can be hard to find or match up. Once
synced, you can skip switching audio most of the time.



>After that I would hit <play>. All AVI files would start to play, probably
>at a lower resolution for display speed purposes. I would then either
>"click" on a window displaying a files to have that become the "outputed"
>one, of use a shortcut key.
>
>Maybe version one would not write directly to file but simply "record" in
>memory the frame number when the switching occured and with what file.
>After that, it could be played back and displayed with the "edited
>switching" and changes could be maid.

I think that creating a list of "change points" would be a lot
easier than trying to ensure on-the-fly display/file output. A fast
system may be able to handle updating the output in real time, but not
everyone has that.

>When all is done, I would simply write the file to a standard AVI file.
>
>This will be a spare time project!
>
>:-)

Being able to pick apart the scene changes for later editing would
be nice though. Maybe, if nothing else, some sort of EDL reference
which could be used to find the scene changes later -- even a text
file might be helpful?

One nice benefit of having a Premiere project as output (as with
United Media's plugin app which I use) is that you can drop in
transitions on each camera change as desired, and also, easily alter
the in/out points because the project file merely references the
source video clip files, it doesn't change them.

OTOH -- it also locks you into using Premiere. Same if the tool had
output for some other video editing app, you'd need the SDK just to
generate the project files, then actually have those programs in order
to test it.

And since whoever would use it would also need that program or
programs, it wouldn't help everyone else who doesn't have those
things.

--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/&gt;
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/&gt;
October 15, 2004 12:48:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

Hi,

The main problem will be to get more than 1 DV stream from the hard drive at
a time in real time. You will need very fast harddrive! (Really fast!)

So far I managed to get video play back of 2 DV streams at half resolution
at about 25-35 fps (Without audio) on a P4-1.5Ghz. The frame rate drop
very fast if the hard disk is fragmented.

I have also begun testing an alternative approach. Use temporary file; I
recompressed the video stream to something that require a lot less harddisk
performance, I'm actually using MJPEG, and so far I'm able to output 2 files
simulteneaously at about 45fps.

If I could managed to get the audio synchronisation between the video before
recompressing, then I would be able to have an almost unlimited number of
video stream because I would render them to the same temp video (already
sync).

The temp file may take a while to generate, but personnally I don't really
care because it would be automated, and we would only have to wait for it.
When it's ready, simply playing it and using shortcut keys to select to one
to output (using the original DV file for maximum quality) would be easy.

I guess I know need to work on the audio sync for now...........

I'll keep you posted!

Bye!






"Cory" <here@there.com> wrote in message
news:WBxbd.5425$bk1.4465@fed1read05...
> "Kevin" <kevin@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:ckm5v0$5en$3@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca...
> > In rec.video.production AA <AA@aa.com> wrote:
> > > Here is what I have in mind... (Need to be tested and implemented)
> >
> > I want this program!
> >
>
> Seriously. I wonder how he's gonna make it work.
>
> Cory
>
>
Anonymous
October 15, 2004 6:31:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

In rec.video.production AA <AA@aa.com> wrote:
> Maybe version one would not write directly to file but simply "record" in
> memory the frame number when the switching occured and with what file.
> After that, it could be played back and displayed with the "edited
> switching" and changes could be maid.

I think every version ought to work this way. This way you can make changes
in case your fingers were too slow or whatever.

Sounds awesome, if you get this going, I would definitely be interested
in using it.
Anonymous
October 17, 2004 4:07:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

Jeffery S. Jones wrote:
>
> Actually, really useful, as most editing apps don't have simple,
> quick, easy tools to slide clips around on the fly. Being able to
> view both streams, listen to them, and shift them in time with simple
> keyboard shortcuts would make the syncing up process easier.

?? Maybe "on the fly", but IMO very few people want to do so. Placing
a MARK on two clips and lining them up, then nudging one frame or so
doesn't seem too onerous to me.
Anonymous
October 19, 2004 2:28:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,rec.video.production (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:07:08 -0700, Seattle Eric <noone@erehwon.gov>
wrote:

>
>
>Jeffery S. Jones wrote:
>>
>> Actually, really useful, as most editing apps don't have simple,
>> quick, easy tools to slide clips around on the fly. Being able to
>> view both streams, listen to them, and shift them in time with simple
>> keyboard shortcuts would make the syncing up process easier.
>
> ?? Maybe "on the fly", but IMO very few people want to do so. Placing
>a MARK on two clips and lining them up, then nudging one frame or so
>doesn't seem too onerous to me.

It isn't too bad, but a tool dedicated to handling multicamera files
can have that functionality on primary hot-keys/menus, readily
available at all times.

--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/&gt;
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/&gt;
!