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Choice of viewfinder

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  • Peripherals
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Anonymous
March 16, 2005 2:56:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except one has a small
('tunnel-vision') optical viewfinder (with a 1.8" TTL LCD on its back) and
the other a large (2.5"; not hinged) TTL LCD (with *no* optical viewfinder),
which one do you prefer? More importantly, can you explain the rationale
behind your choice?

This question was brought on by the recent announcement of Ricoh Caplio R1v
and R2, the latter being the one without the optical viewfinder.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Ricoh/ricoh_capli...
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0502/05022801ricohr2.asp

I've read the page on viewfinders:
http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Camera_System/...

This would be my first purchase of a digital camera, though I have used a
Contaflex SLR, a Cannon EF, and a Fuji Fotonex compact zoom film camera
before. Any personal view would be very much appreciated.

--
Lin Chung.
[The Water Margins of Liang Shan Po were at the time of the Sung dynasty.
Replace that with "ntlworld" for emails.]

More about : choice viewfinder

Anonymous
March 16, 2005 2:56:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

The optical is good for extreme sunlght when the LCD is washed out and hard
to see and also for long telephoto shots to stabilize the camera against the
mass of your head.
Some cameras last much longer with the LCD turned off. I have a Pentax and
get about a week out of a charge with the LCD fully on and flash 50%.
Previous ones I have owned killed the batteries in a few hours. Stick with
LioN batteries and not AA cells for many reasons.


"Lin Chung" <lin.chung@the.Water.Margin.com> wrote in message
news:5DKZd.587$971.483@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
> Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except one has a small
> ('tunnel-vision') optical viewfinder (with a 1.8" TTL LCD on its back) and
> the other a large (2.5"; not hinged) TTL LCD (with *no* optical
viewfinder),
> which one do you prefer? More importantly, can you explain the rationale
> behind your choice?
>
> This question was brought on by the recent announcement of Ricoh Caplio
R1v
> and R2, the latter being the one without the optical viewfinder.
> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Ricoh/ricoh_capli...
> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0502/05022801ricohr2.asp
>
> I've read the page on viewfinders:
> http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Camera_System/...
>
> This would be my first purchase of a digital camera, though I have used a
> Contaflex SLR, a Cannon EF, and a Fuji Fotonex compact zoom film camera
> before. Any personal view would be very much appreciated.
>
> --
> Lin Chung.
> [The Water Margins of Liang Shan Po were at the time of the Sung dynasty.
> Replace that with "ntlworld" for emails.]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 10:44:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

Gìmmìe Bob wrote:
> Lin Chung wrote:
> > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except one has
> > a small ('tunnel-vision') optical viewfinder (with a 1.8" TTL LCD
> > on its back) and the other a large (2.5"; not hinged) TTL LCD
> > (with *no* optical viewfinder), which one do you prefer? More
> > importantly, can you explain the rationale behind your choice?...
> The optical is good for extreme sunlght when the LCD is washed
> out and hard to see and also for long telephoto shots to stabilize the
> camera against the mass of your head. Some cameras last much
> longer with the LCD turned off. I have a Pentax and get about a
> week out of a charge with the LCD fully on and flash 50%.
> Previous ones I have owned killed the batteries in a few hours.
> Stick with LioN batteries and not AA cells for many reasons.




Thanks. You are right. The hand shake is always a constant worry in a
light and small (held up between finger tips) camera. I experienced that
while playing with a wrist (-watch) digicam; it was not easy to get a shot
without blur. My recent reading, as a result of your response highlighting
this issue, directed my attention to the more recently released ultra
compact models which had some interesting innovative strategies in
alleviating this problem. I must hold on to my cash and wait!

As to the issue of battery capacity, there are now 2000, 2300, 2500, and
even 2800 mAh NiMH AA batteries. The highest Li-Ion rechargeable AAs are
only about 1700+, I believe. So, the newest NiMH AAs should outperform the
Li-Ion ones and they are much cheaper too, and more importantly they are
also less damaging to the environment.

--
Lin Chung.
[The Water Margins of Liang Shan Po were at the time of the Sung dynasty.
Replace that with "ntlworld" for emails.]
Related resources
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 10:44:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

No! Proprietary format LioN cells are usually cheaper in the end and have
much higher Ah ratings.
The contacts are made better, protected against corrosion and finger
touching, fit in the compartment better and therfore do not bend the
contacts when vibration occurs. AA batteries are always breaking contact
with vibration and the springs are usually made cheaply unlike the
proprietary contacts that are gold plated for low resistance.

LioN can be charged and pick them up a month later and shoot your camera.
NiMh or NiCad will be dead within a week and do not like having that done to
them or they won't last a year. LioN like to be kept on charge, and do not
have to be cycled. They are much better batteries.

"Lin Chung" <lin.chung@the.Water.Margin.com> wrote in message
news:w6l_d.757$g3.343@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
> Glmmle Bob wrote:
> > Lin Chung wrote:
> > > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except one has
> > > a small ('tunnel-vision') optical viewfinder (with a 1.8" TTL LCD
> > > on its back) and the other a large (2.5"; not hinged) TTL LCD
> > > (with *no* optical viewfinder), which one do you prefer? More
> > > importantly, can you explain the rationale behind your choice?...
> > The optical is good for extreme sunlght when the LCD is washed
> > out and hard to see and also for long telephoto shots to stabilize the
> > camera against the mass of your head. Some cameras last much
> > longer with the LCD turned off. I have a Pentax and get about a
> > week out of a charge with the LCD fully on and flash 50%.
> > Previous ones I have owned killed the batteries in a few hours.
> > Stick with LioN batteries and not AA cells for many reasons.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks. You are right. The hand shake is always a constant worry in a
> light and small (held up between finger tips) camera. I experienced that
> while playing with a wrist (-watch) digicam; it was not easy to get a shot
> without blur. My recent reading, as a result of your response
highlighting
> this issue, directed my attention to the more recently released ultra
> compact models which had some interesting innovative strategies in
> alleviating this problem. I must hold on to my cash and wait!
>
> As to the issue of battery capacity, there are now 2000, 2300, 2500, and
> even 2800 mAh NiMH AA batteries. The highest Li-Ion rechargeable AAs are
> only about 1700+, I believe. So, the newest NiMH AAs should outperform
the
> Li-Ion ones and they are much cheaper too, and more importantly they are
> also less damaging to the environment.
>
> --
> Lin Chung.
> [The Water Margins of Liang Shan Po were at the time of the Sung dynasty.
> Replace that with "ntlworld" for emails.]
>
>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 12:53:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

> The optical is good for extreme sunlght when the LCD is washed out and
hard
> to see and also for long telephoto shots to stabilize the camera against
the
> mass of your head.

It's also good for close-up work, where the lens rarely lines up with the
viewfinder, and when you want to see what your picture will look like before
you take it (except in the case of dslr's). They do make universal and
custom hoods for some cameras to block the sunlight reflecting off the LCD.
Good point about helping stabilize the camera (viewfinder). It's tough to
hold a camera out away from your body and keep it stable. And with us old
farts who's eyes aren't what they used to be, reading an image on an LCD can
be a pain.
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 10:37:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

Sheldon wrote:
> Gìmmìe Bob wrote:
> > Lin Chung wrote:
> > > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except one
> > > has a small optical viewfinder and the other a large TTL LCD
> > > which one do you prefer?
> > The optical is good for extreme sunlght when the LCD is washed
> > out and hard to see and also for long telephoto shots to stabilize
> > the camera against the mass of your head.
> It's also good for close-up work, where the lens rarely lines up with
> the viewfinder, and when you want to see what your picture will look
> like before you take it (except in the case of dslr's)....


Very true. But it is also true that accurate focusing is more assured using
a TTL optical viewfinder than by the LCD alone which in subcompact/compact
cameras are invariably of dismal resolution (as defined by the pixel
number). A large LCD, as against a tiny one, for viewing pictures just
taken in a social situation is, on the other hand, a great facilitator in
building friendship/relationship. It really is best to have the unavailable
combination, a viewfinder and a large LCD! Now I can dream about the
promised flexible, foldable organic crystal display units, can't I? <g>

--
Lin Chung.
[The Water Margins of Liang Shan Po were at the time of the Sung dynasty.
Replace that with "ntlworld" for emails.]
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 10:37:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

You haven't seen the manual focusing system on a Pentax Optio line camera
then.
The resolution in the LCD screen is a piece of the 5 megapixel element
while focusing.

The subcompact camera LCD is some Pentax Optios is a 2" LCD, much bigger
than some of your so-called "pro" cameras from last month.


"Lin Chung" <lin.chung@the.Water.Margin.com> wrote in message
news:8MZ0e.2634$R01.2458@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
> Sheldon wrote:
> > Glmmle Bob wrote:
> > > Lin Chung wrote:
> > > > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except one
> > > > has a small optical viewfinder and the other a large TTL LCD
> > > > which one do you prefer?
> > > The optical is good for extreme sunlght when the LCD is washed
> > > out and hard to see and also for long telephoto shots to stabilize
> > > the camera against the mass of your head.
> > It's also good for close-up work, where the lens rarely lines up with
> > the viewfinder, and when you want to see what your picture will look
> > like before you take it (except in the case of dslr's)....
>
>
> Very true. But it is also true that accurate focusing is more assured
using
> a TTL optical viewfinder than by the LCD alone which in subcompact/compact
> cameras are invariably of dismal resolution (as defined by the pixel
> number). A large LCD, as against a tiny one, for viewing pictures just
> taken in a social situation is, on the other hand, a great facilitator in
> building friendship/relationship. It really is best to have the
unavailable
> combination, a viewfinder and a large LCD! Now I can dream about the
> promised flexible, foldable organic crystal display units, can't I? <g>
>
> --
> Lin Chung.
> [The Water Margins of Liang Shan Po were at the time of the Sung dynasty.
> Replace that with "ntlworld" for emails.]
>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 3:00:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

John Bengi wrote:
> Lin Chung wrote:
>> Sheldon wrote:
>> > Glmmle Bob wrote:
>> > > Lin Chung wrote:
>> > > > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except one
>> > > > has a small optical viewfinder and the other a large TTL LCD
>> > > > which one do you prefer?
>> > > The optical is good for extreme sunlght when the LCD is washed
>> > > out and hard to see and also for long telephoto shots to stabilize
>> > > the camera against the mass of your head.
>> > It's also good for close-up work, where the lens rarely lines up with
>> > the viewfinder, and when you want to see what your picture will look
>> > like before you take it (except in the case of dslr's)....
>> Very true. But it is also true that accurate focusing is more assured
> > using a TTL optical viewfinder than by the LCD alone which in
> > subcompact/compact cameras are invariably of dismal resolution (
> You haven't seen the manual focusing system on a Pentax Optio
> line camera then. The resolution in the LCD screen is a piece of the
> 5 megapixel element while focusing....



I don't understand your assertion that the LSD resolution is "a piece of the
5 megapixel element". My view is that for comparison the native resolution
of a LSD display should be the pixel *density* of the panel expressed in a
unit of , say, megapixel per square centimeter. Most ultracompact/compact
cameras have 1.8" screen, some 2.0" and a few 2.5". The number of pixels,
however, varies between 110 000 and 140 000 per screen. Because this number
is relatively unchanged, it can even be argued that the larger the screen,
the poorer the density, i.e. resolution. Admittedly the larger sized pixel
in the larger LSD panels is easier to the eyes and looks 'sharper'.

--
Lin Chung.
[The Water Margins of Liang Shan Po were at the time of the Sung dynasty.
Replace that with "ntlworld" for emails.]
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 3:00:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

When you manually focus on a Pentax Optio the centre of the picture becomes
zoomed in some 8 or 16 x and each pixel in the photo is each pixel on the
LCD display (or close) There is no more resolution to be obtained. This
works for the sharpest focus you can get. After you stop adjusting focus for
more than a few seconds the picture zooms back out and you see the whole
frame. Works like a charm and somebody was quite genius to think of this
technique.

"Lin Chung" <lin.chung@the.Water.Margin.com> wrote in message
news:cC11e.499$go3.129@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> John Bengi wrote:
> > Lin Chung wrote:
> >> Sheldon wrote:
> >> > Glmmle Bob wrote:
> >> > > Lin Chung wrote:
> >> > > > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except one
> >> > > > has a small optical viewfinder and the other a large TTL LCD
> >> > > > which one do you prefer?
> >> > > The optical is good for extreme sunlght when the LCD is washed
> >> > > out and hard to see and also for long telephoto shots to stabilize
> >> > > the camera against the mass of your head.
> >> > It's also good for close-up work, where the lens rarely lines up with
> >> > the viewfinder, and when you want to see what your picture will look
> >> > like before you take it (except in the case of dslr's)....
> >> Very true. But it is also true that accurate focusing is more assured
> > > using a TTL optical viewfinder than by the LCD alone which in
> > > subcompact/compact cameras are invariably of dismal resolution (
> > You haven't seen the manual focusing system on a Pentax Optio
> > line camera then. The resolution in the LCD screen is a piece of the
> > 5 megapixel element while focusing....
>
>
>
> I don't understand your assertion that the LSD resolution is "a piece of
the
> 5 megapixel element". My view is that for comparison the native
resolution
> of a LSD display should be the pixel *density* of the panel expressed in a
> unit of , say, megapixel per square centimeter. Most ultracompact/compact
> cameras have 1.8" screen, some 2.0" and a few 2.5". The number of pixels,
> however, varies between 110 000 and 140 000 per screen. Because this
number
> is relatively unchanged, it can even be argued that the larger the screen,
> the poorer the density, i.e. resolution. Admittedly the larger sized
pixel
> in the larger LSD panels is easier to the eyes and looks 'sharper'.
>
> --
> Lin Chung.
> [The Water Margins of Liang Shan Po were at the time of the Sung dynasty.
> Replace that with "ntlworld" for emails.]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 10:34:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

John Bengi wrote:
> Lin Chung wrote:
> > John Bengi wrote:
> > > Lin Chung wrote:
> > > > Sheldon wrote:
> > > > > Glmmle Bob wrote:
> > > > > > Lin Chung wrote:
> > > > > > > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except
> > > > > > >one has a small optical viewfinder and the other a large
> > > > > > > TTL LCD... which one do you prefer?
> > > > > > The optical is good for extreme sunlght when the LCD is
> > > > > > washed out and hard to see and also for long telephoto shots
> > > > > > to stabilize the camera against the mass of your head.
> > > > > It's also good for close-up work, where the lens rarely lines up
> > > > > with the viewfinder, and when you want to see what your picture
> > > > > will look like before you take it...
> > > > ...also true that accurate focusing is more assured using a TTL
> > > > optical viewfinder than by the LCD alone which in subcompact/
> > > > compact cameras are invariably of dismal resolution...
> > > You haven't seen the manual focusing system on a Pentax Optio
> > > line camera then. The resolution in the LCD screen is a piece of the
> > > 5 megapixel element while focusing....
> > I don't understand your assertion that the LSD resolution is "a piece of
> > the 5 megapixel element". My view is that for comparison the native
> > resolution of a LSD display should be the pixel *density*...
> When you manually focus on a Pentax Optio the centre of the picture
> becomes zoomed in some 8 or 16 x and each pixel in the photo is each
> pixel on the LCD display (or close) There is no more resolution to be
> obtained. This works for the sharpest focus you can get. After you stop
> adjusting focus for more than a few seconds the picture zooms back out
> and you see the whole frame. Works like a charm and somebody was
> quite genius to think of this technique.



Aha....so it's now automated! You see, one technique to get in focus is to
follow this sequence of steps: compose > zoom in > focus > zoom out >
re-compose > release shutter. Tedious but it works. Your zoomed in area
being made the same size as the LCD to maximize its available resolving
power followed by a restoration of the original frame (zooming back out)
works in the same principle. Brilliant!

--
Lin Chung.
[The Water Margins of Liang Shan Po were at the time of the Sung dynasty.
Replace that with "ntlworld" for emails.]
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 10:34:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

This process is all automatically done by the camera siftware whenyou touch
the manual focus joystick.

"Lin Chung" <lin.chung@the.Water.Margin.com> wrote in message
news:gg81e.136$n57.72@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
> John Bengi wrote:
> > Lin Chung wrote:
> > > John Bengi wrote:
> > > > Lin Chung wrote:
> > > > > Sheldon wrote:
> > > > > > Glmmle Bob wrote:
> > > > > > > Lin Chung wrote:
> > > > > > > > Of two *identical* ultra compact zoom digicams, except
> > > > > > > >one has a small optical viewfinder and the other a large
> > > > > > > > TTL LCD... which one do you prefer?
> > > > > > > The optical is good for extreme sunlght when the LCD is
> > > > > > > washed out and hard to see and also for long telephoto shots
> > > > > > > to stabilize the camera against the mass of your head.
> > > > > > It's also good for close-up work, where the lens rarely lines up
> > > > > > with the viewfinder, and when you want to see what your picture
> > > > > > will look like before you take it...
> > > > > ...also true that accurate focusing is more assured using a TTL
> > > > > optical viewfinder than by the LCD alone which in subcompact/
> > > > > compact cameras are invariably of dismal resolution...
> > > > You haven't seen the manual focusing system on a Pentax Optio
> > > > line camera then. The resolution in the LCD screen is a piece of
the
> > > > 5 megapixel element while focusing....
> > > I don't understand your assertion that the LSD resolution is "a piece
of
> > > the 5 megapixel element". My view is that for comparison the native
> > > resolution of a LSD display should be the pixel *density*...
> > When you manually focus on a Pentax Optio the centre of the picture
> > becomes zoomed in some 8 or 16 x and each pixel in the photo is each
> > pixel on the LCD display (or close) There is no more resolution to be
> > obtained. This works for the sharpest focus you can get. After you stop
> > adjusting focus for more than a few seconds the picture zooms back out
> > and you see the whole frame. Works like a charm and somebody was
> > quite genius to think of this technique.
>
>
>
> Aha....so it's now automated! You see, one technique to get in focus is
to
> follow this sequence of steps: compose > zoom in > focus > zoom out >
> re-compose > release shutter. Tedious but it works. Your zoomed in area
> being made the same size as the LCD to maximize its available resolving
> power followed by a restoration of the original frame (zooming back out)
> works in the same principle. Brilliant!
>
> --
> Lin Chung.
> [The Water Margins of Liang Shan Po were at the time of the Sung dynasty.
> Replace that with "ntlworld" for emails.]
>
>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 1:23:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras (More info?)

"Sheldon" <sheldon@REMOVEsopris.net> wrote in message
news:uYydnUx6Y7SaB97fRVn-hw@comcast.com...
> > The optical is good for extreme sunlght when the LCD is washed out and
> hard
> > to see and also for long telephoto shots to stabilize the camera against
> the
> > mass of your head.
>
> It's also good for close-up work, where the lens rarely lines up with the
> viewfinder, and when you want to see what your picture will look like
before
> you take it (except in the case of dslr's). They do make universal and
> custom hoods for some cameras to block the sunlight reflecting off the
LCD.
> Good point about helping stabilize the camera (viewfinder). It's tough to
> hold a camera out away from your body and keep it stable. And with us old
> farts who's eyes aren't what they used to be, reading an image on an LCD
can
> be a pain.
>
>

I see through the viewfinder of my Oly 8080 the same image as displayed on
the rear LCD viewer. Is this usual or a plus feature of this particular non
SLR digital camera?

Thanks.


--
Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day; set a man on fire and he
will be warm the rest of his life. - John Dey



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