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DVD9 - The Dual Layer Experience.

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Anonymous
November 14, 2004 10:01:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Hi,

I recently started using MovieFactory 3 and Workshop 2. Both Ulead
products.
As you may or may not know, MF3 is only meant for Single layer DVDs.
WS 2 is the "do everything" authorer that supposedly will burn Dual
Layer DVDs with the NEC 3500 burner, which I have. Supposedly NERO
also burns the DVD9s.
My experience is that none of them actually burn DVD9s. Ulead says
their engineers are working to get the DVD9s to burn for me. Meanwhile
I think the software manufactures (NERO, Ulead) get it to work once
under very specific system arrangements and then report that their
software is DVD9 capable.

The truth is that anyone trying do burn a dual layer disk with these
programs is a BETA tester!

If you are wondering what system I am using, I will tell.

P4 2.4 HTT 800/Intel 875PBZ MB/ 1G dual channel ddr400 ram/ 3 IDE
drives with 380 Gigs of space/ 1 SATA drive with 300 gigs space/ NEC
3500ag DVD burner...etc. My System is running perfectly in all other
departments. I should mention also that DVD5s burn with no problem.

Oh yeah. My os, you ask? Yesterday I had Y2K Pro and today I have
Win XP.
Why the change? Because I thought that the os (supposed) upgrade
would make it work right. WRONG. $193.00 spent on an os replacement
when I was perfectly happy with Y2K. What can you do?

So for now I am waiting for some genius to make the dual layers work
for me and must resort to the 4.7 gig DVDs. I am not happy about this
but what choice do I really have when spending thousands of dollars is
not an option.

Sincerely,

Dual layer obsessed
Anonymous
November 15, 2004 11:18:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

> So for now I am waiting for some genius to make the dual layers work
> for me and must resort to the 4.7 gig DVDs. I am not happy about this
> but what choice do I really have when spending thousands of dollars is
> not an option.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Dual layer obsessed

Anytime new a technology is introduced, first users are beta testers. My
question is.. why rush to dual layer when the disks are $10 a pop, if you
can find them?
November 16, 2004 2:31:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Mark M" <mark@onworldsedge.com> wrote in message
news:002md.14546$jE2.13103@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>> So for now I am waiting for some genius to make the dual layers work
>> for me and must resort to the 4.7 gig DVDs. I am not happy about this
>> but what choice do I really have when spending thousands of dollars is
>> not an option.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Dual layer obsessed
>
> Anytime new a technology is introduced, first users are beta testers. My
> question is.. why rush to dual layer when the disks are $10 a pop, if you
> can find them?
>
I got my LaCie dual-layer burner to be able to archive more data on one disc
but to also make a backup copy of the dual-layer navigation disks that are
in my car. Copied without a hitch using "Disk Copy" in Roxio. No
coasters....so far.

dave
Related resources
Anonymous
November 16, 2004 7:28:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Mark M wrote:

>>So for now I am waiting for some genius to make the dual layers work
>>for me and must resort to the 4.7 gig DVDs. I am not happy about this
>>but what choice do I really have when spending thousands of dollars is
>>not an option.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>
>>Dual layer obsessed
>
>
> Anytime new a technology is introduced, first users are beta testers. My
> question is.. why rush to dual layer when the disks are $10 a pop, if you
> can find them?

I think this dual layer stuff is a clinker. For one thing, what subject
material requires more than two hours recording time? For another, it
will be superseded by blu-ray and beyond very quickly.

Give it a pass.

Gary Eickmeier
Anonymous
November 17, 2004 2:38:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

1) Buy a burner that is solid & stable. Here, try the Pioneer A08 or
NEC 3500A series first. (see PI/PO error charts vs. other, worse
burners at www.cdrinfo.com, http://homepage2.nifty.com/yss/ and other
test sites).

The BIGGEST problem is that people start complaining like crazy w/o
first starting off with the top quality equipment and discs.
Complaining about bad burns made on poor quality burners is like saying
you don't like how bad equipment works.

1a) Make sure you have updated the FIRMWARE of the drive to the very
latest version. Same goes for the burning software!

Many times, makers improve burning performance with Firmware
updates that substantially improve the performance of your drive. Don't
assume that a 1.0 version drive will produce the best results out of the
box.

2) Buy a compatible, top quality disc. You can see the PI/PO error rate
charts for many burners. Buy the discs that work the best in that burner!

Again, people who buy any ol' disc that may burn horribly, then
complaining about the poor performance isn't getting anywhere.

As an example of the performance of a very bad (AVOID!) double-layer
disc:
http://homepage2.nifty.com/yss/prodiscd01/prodisc_dl.ht...
(Note how the PI/PO error rates are horrible, if the disc even burns
at all successfully.) Don't buy this prodisc DL!

3) Consider a new DVD player (for yourself). Players like the Philips
DVP642 for $70 at Walmart and Amazon are among the best since they not
only play just about everything you can toss at them, but support
DVD/DIVX/XVID/MPEG4/MP3/CD/VCD/SVCD/JPEG/CD etc formats. Older players
have laser pickups that simply can't pickup the writable discs as well
-- this parallels the same thing that happened with old CD-ROM drives
not being able to read the CD-R/RW discs just a few years ago.

4) Consider a burner which can set the booktype of the disc. See
www.cdrinfo.com for more info and drives that can do this.

5) Don't expect 100% compatibility. Heck, even the very best burners &
single layer DVD-R discs can only get up to about 90% compatibility
across all DVD players in existence, so don't expect DVD double-layer
discs to work 100% in all players!

Lots of people don't understand or get this point -- don't expect
100% compatibility because there is no such thing, double or single layer!

6) http://www.videohelp.com/ to see the DVD player database and see
what discs do work in your dvd player. Some players simply will never
work with some types of discs/formats.

7) Other than that, you CAN get 100% reliable burns and playback if you
think it through first and buy top quality, compatible equipment that
will do double-layer all day long w/o any problems at all.
Anonymous
November 19, 2004 8:56:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On a sunny day (Tue, 16 Nov 2004 04:28:12 GMT) it happened Gary Eickmeier
<geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
<wlfmd.28926$8G4.3445@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>:

>
>
>
>
>Mark M wrote:
>
>>>So for now I am waiting for some genius to make the dual layers work
>>>for me and must resort to the 4.7 gig DVDs. I am not happy about this
>>>but what choice do I really have when spending thousands of dollars is
>>>not an option.
>>>
>>>Sincerely,
>>>
>>>Dual layer obsessed
>>
>>
>> Anytime new a technology is introduced, first users are beta testers. My
>> question is.. why rush to dual layer when the disks are $10 a pop, if you
>> can find them?
>
>I think this dual layer stuff is a clinker. For one thing, what subject
>material requires more than two hours recording time? For another, it
>will be superseded by blu-ray and beyond very quickly.
>
>Give it a pass.
hey, I recorded Westside Story from DVT satellite and it was 5.63 GB,
and now the dual layers go for 75 Euro or so, wait a while an there will be no
more single layer burners.
Blue ray, OK, not for that price, and then there is the standards war coming
up, so, what I am trying to say is that 'waiting for the next format' would
result in you never buying anything.
I have no dual layer yet, but it is on my wish list (together with the Ferrari,
my own spacecraft etc ;-) )
I compressed westside story to DivX, and now it is 2.2Gb.
JP

>Gary Eickmeier
>
November 19, 2004 11:07:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Tue, 16 Nov 2004 04:28:12 GMT) it happened Gary Eickmeier
><geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
><wlfmd.28926$8G4.3445@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Mark M wrote:
>>
>>>>So for now I am waiting for some genius to make the dual layers work
>>>>for me and must resort to the 4.7 gig DVDs. I am not happy about this
>>>>but what choice do I really have when spending thousands of dollars is
>>>>not an option.
>>>>
>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>>Dual layer obsessed
>>>
>>>
>>> Anytime new a technology is introduced, first users are beta testers. My
>>> question is.. why rush to dual layer when the disks are $10 a pop, if you
>>> can find them?
>>
supermediastore.com is a retailer of some worth who has DL media on
offer for a couple of bucks a pop iirc, but the disclaimer on the page
where they list their wares is an eye opener.
Anonymous
November 21, 2004 6:49:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Mark M" <mark@onworldsedge.com> wrote in message news:<002md.14546$jE2.13103@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
> > So for now I am waiting for some genius to make the dual layers work
> > for me and must resort to the 4.7 gig DVDs. I am not happy about this
> > but what choice do I really have when spending thousands of dollars is
> > not an option.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Dual layer obsessed
>
> Anytime new a technology is introduced, first users are beta testers. My
> question is.. why rush to dual layer when the disks are $10 a pop, if you
> can find them?

Because I make wedding and event videos that I don't want to edit or
put on two or more disks.
Anonymous
November 21, 2004 6:57:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

David Chien <chiendh@uci.edu> wrote in message news:<cng9b6$rtd$1@news.service.uci.edu>...
> 1) Buy a burner that is solid & stable. Here, try the Pioneer A08 or
> NEC 3500A series first. (see PI/PO error charts vs. other, worse
> burners at www.cdrinfo.com, http://homepage2.nifty.com/yss/ and other
> test sites).
>
> The BIGGEST problem is that people start complaining like crazy w/o
> first starting off with the top quality equipment and discs.
> Complaining about bad burns made on poor quality burners is like saying
> you don't like how bad equipment works.
>
> 1a) Make sure you have updated the FIRMWARE of the drive to the very
> latest version. Same goes for the burning software!
>
> Many times, makers improve burning performance with Firmware
> updates that substantially improve the performance of your drive. Don't
> assume that a 1.0 version drive will produce the best results out of the
> box.
>
> 2) Buy a compatible, top quality disc. You can see the PI/PO error rate
> charts for many burners. Buy the discs that work the best in that burner!
>
> Again, people who buy any ol' disc that may burn horribly, then
> complaining about the poor performance isn't getting anywhere.
>
> As an example of the performance of a very bad (AVOID!) double-layer
> disc:
> http://homepage2.nifty.com/yss/prodiscd01/prodisc_dl.ht...
> (Note how the PI/PO error rates are horrible, if the disc even burns
> at all successfully.) Don't buy this prodisc DL!
>
> 3) Consider a new DVD player (for yourself). Players like the Philips
> DVP642 for $70 at Walmart and Amazon are among the best since they not
> only play just about everything you can toss at them, but support
> DVD/DIVX/XVID/MPEG4/MP3/CD/VCD/SVCD/JPEG/CD etc formats. Older players
> have laser pickups that simply can't pickup the writable discs as well
> -- this parallels the same thing that happened with old CD-ROM drives
> not being able to read the CD-R/RW discs just a few years ago.
>
> 4) Consider a burner which can set the booktype of the disc. See
> www.cdrinfo.com for more info and drives that can do this.
>
> 5) Don't expect 100% compatibility. Heck, even the very best burners &
> single layer DVD-R discs can only get up to about 90% compatibility
> across all DVD players in existence, so don't expect DVD double-layer
> discs to work 100% in all players!
>
> Lots of people don't understand or get this point -- don't expect
> 100% compatibility because there is no such thing, double or single layer!
>
> 6) http://www.videohelp.com/ to see the DVD player database and see
> what discs do work in your dvd player. Some players simply will never
> work with some types of discs/formats.
>
> 7) Other than that, you CAN get 100% reliable burns and playback if you
> think it through first and buy top quality, compatible equipment that
> will do double-layer all day long w/o any problems at all.



The Burner I have is a NEC 3500AG. ULEAD said the media (disks) might
be the problem. I purchased PIODATA DVD9s. PIODATA says there disks
work with Pioneer burners. NEC says there burners work with TDK and
Verbatim disks. I sent the PIODATAs back and ordered 3 Verbatim
disks. I'll let you all know how it works this week.

By the way, Newegg has the Verbatim DL disks for 3 for $19 after $10
rebate and shipping. Thats only $6.33 per disk which is not too
terrible.
Anonymous
November 21, 2004 7:01:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

garygq@yahoo.com (garygq@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<b41d2e1e.0411141901.24edc380@posting.google.com>...
> Hi,
>
> I recently started using MovieFactory 3 and Workshop 2. Both Ulead
> products.
> As you may or may not know, MF3 is only meant for Single layer DVDs.
> WS 2 is the "do everything" authorer that supposedly will burn Dual
> Layer DVDs with the NEC 3500 burner, which I have. Supposedly NERO
> also burns the DVD9s.
> My experience is that none of them actually burn DVD9s. Ulead says
> their engineers are working to get the DVD9s to burn for me. Meanwhile
> I think the software manufactures (NERO, Ulead) get it to work once
> under very specific system arrangements and then report that their
> software is DVD9 capable.
>
> The truth is that anyone trying do burn a dual layer disk with these
> programs is a BETA tester!
>
> If you are wondering what system I am using, I will tell.
>
> P4 2.4 HTT 800/Intel 875PBZ MB/ 1G dual channel ddr400 ram/ 3 IDE
> drives with 380 Gigs of space/ 1 SATA drive with 300 gigs space/ NEC
> 3500ag DVD burner...etc. My System is running perfectly in all other
> departments. I should mention also that DVD5s burn with no problem.
>
> Oh yeah. My os, you ask? Yesterday I had Y2K Pro and today I have
> Win XP.
> Why the change? Because I thought that the os (supposed) upgrade
> would make it work right. WRONG. $193.00 spent on an os replacement
> when I was perfectly happy with Y2K. What can you do?
>
> So for now I am waiting for some genius to make the dual layers work
> for me and must resort to the 4.7 gig DVDs. I am not happy about this
> but what choice do I really have when spending thousands of dollars is
> not an option.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Dual layer obsessed


P.S. Some of you asked why I need to use the DVD9s. Well, I'm sure
you can figure out some use for having 8.5 Gigs on one side of a disk
instead of 4.7.
The point is if you sell it and people buy it it should work.
November 21, 2004 7:55:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

garygq@yahoo.com (garygq@yahoo.com) wrote:

>> Oh yeah. My os, you ask? Yesterday I had Y2K Pro and today I have
>> Win XP.
>> Why the change? Because I thought that the os (supposed) upgrade
>> would make it work right. WRONG. $193.00 spent on an os replacement
>> when I was perfectly happy with Y2K. What can you do?
>>
>> So for now I am waiting for some genius to make the dual layers work
>> for me and must resort to the 4.7 gig DVDs. I am not happy about this
>> but what choice do I really have when spending thousands of dollars is
>> not an option.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Dual layer obsessed
>
>
>P.S. Some of you asked why I need to use the DVD9s. Well, I'm sure
>you can figure out some use for having 8.5 Gigs on one side of a disk
>instead of 4.7.
>The point is if you sell it and people buy it it should work.

Some fairly important voices are saying that DL DVD's are not ready
for prime time. Problems include the important "don't enjoy
compatibility with many DVD players" among others. Your business is
your business, but when I do anything important I still split the
high-quality version onto two DVD's and provide a more-compressed
version on a single DVD. Many people are happy with the compressed
version, but those who aren't are covered.
Anonymous
November 21, 2004 9:32:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

<garygq@yahoo.com> wrote ...
> Because I make wedding and event videos that I don't want
> to edit or put on two or more disks.

I think there is a great, untapped potential to sell >2 hour wedding
videos as a non-addicting sleep aid.
Anonymous
November 22, 2004 7:35:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"garygq@yahoo.com" wrote:

> By the way, Newegg has the Verbatim DL disks for 3 for $19 after $10
> rebate and shipping. Thats only $6.33 per disk which is not too
> terrible.

Hmmm...I just got a 25-pack of the "old fashioned" single layer disks for less than $11
(Memorex) at a local store.

I'll wait for dual layer to drop to that price or better.
Anonymous
November 23, 2004 2:40:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Gary Eickmeier <geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message news:<wlfmd.28926$8G4.3445@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>...
> Mark M wrote:
>
> >>So for now I am waiting for some genius to make the dual layers work
> >>for me and must resort to the 4.7 gig DVDs. I am not happy about this
> >>but what choice do I really have when spending thousands of dollars is
> >>not an option.
> >>
> >>Sincerely,
> >>
> >>Dual layer obsessed
> >
> >
> > Anytime new a technology is introduced, first users are beta testers. My
> > question is.. why rush to dual layer when the disks are $10 a pop, if you
> > can find them?
>
> I think this dual layer stuff is a clinker. For one thing, what subject
> material requires more than two hours recording time?


uncompressed commercial dvd copying, for starters :) 


For another, it
> will be superseded by blu-ray and beyond very quickly.
>
> Give it a pass.


agreed


STRATEGY



>
> Gary Eickmeier
Anonymous
November 23, 2004 2:41:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Gary Eickmeier <geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message news:<wlfmd.28926$8G4.3445@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>...
> Mark M wrote:
>
> >>So for now I am waiting for some genius to make the dual layers work
> >>for me and must resort to the 4.7 gig DVDs. I am not happy about this
> >>but what choice do I really have when spending thousands of dollars is
> >>not an option.
> >>
> >>Sincerely,
> >>
> >>Dual layer obsessed
> >
> >
> > Anytime new a technology is introduced, first users are beta testers. My
> > question is.. why rush to dual layer when the disks are $10 a pop, if you
> > can find them?
>
> I think this dual layer stuff is a clinker. For one thing, what subject
> material requires more than two hours recording time?


uncompressed commercial dvd copying, for starters :) 


For another, it
> will be superseded by blu-ray and beyond very quickly.
>
> Give it a pass.


agreed


STRATEGY



>
> Gary Eickmeier
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 6:42:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

> work with Pioneer burners. NEC says there burners work with TDK and
> Verbatim disks. I sent the PIODATAs back and ordered 3 Verbatim
> disks. I'll let you all know how it works this week.
>
> By the way, Newegg has the Verbatim DL disks for 3 for $19 after $10
> rebate and shipping. Thats only $6.33 per disk which is not too
> terrible.

Straight from the horse's mouth:

http://www.de.nec.de/software/1677_Media_List_for_16x_D...(DVT).pdf

As you can see, NEC's offical DL support list only has the
Mitsubishi/Verbatim DL disc listed -- no other DL disc is guarenteed to
be compatible or to work in this drive (although others will...).
Anonymous
November 29, 2004 5:58:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

> I upgraded from my pioneer 104 drive to the new 108 for increased
> The problem is my data writing capability is TOTALLY LOST. My old
> NERO 5.5 doesn't even recognize the drive as a dvd burner -- only as a
> cd burner!

Same thing here with Nero 5.x, but the simple solution was to take
out the free Nero 6.x out of the box, install that, and back to normal....
Anonymous
December 2, 2004 1:47:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Yes, but I bought my drive oem, bare drive, so no accompanying Nero.
However, Frye's is selling Nero 6.3 with a $50 rebate. So for $20 I'll
have the full upgrade after the free update to 6.6. Can't complain too
much, I guess...
!