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remote assistance; can it connect two computers anywhere, ..

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Anonymous
August 4, 2004 2:46:08 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.work_remotely (More info?)

Hello,

I have the following problem:

There are two "mobile" computers that have both access to the internet
and connect with MSN. Usually, one will connect through a phone-line
and the other with a DSL-line, but it can change according to
circumstances.

On one side the computer is used by a novice user and the other side
by an expert.

The expert wants to remotely assist the novice user. To do this I
wanted to use remote assistent. The problem with it, that it only seem
to work if the computers can be connected directly with IP-adresses.
So if a router is in between or if I don't know the IP-adres,
connection fails.

What I want to do, is remotely assist a computer that is on the
internet with another computer that is on the internet. It's something
that should be possible considering applications like MSN, Kazaa, etc.

My question: How?

Solutions like Radmin and VNC are not an option, because I need to
reroute possible routers etc; that's not an option because of the
novice user and the constant changing way in which connection to the
internet is established.

Thanks in advance,

Best regards,

Michiel Doeven
Anonymous
August 4, 2004 9:04:11 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.work_remotely (More info?)

You need to know the IP address--that's the whole basis of Internet (or even
network) communication.

You can solve that piece with a dynamic DNS provider.

The next bit is tougher. NAT's or firewalls will always interfere
(appropriately and intentionally) with inbound communication.

About the best you can do is to turn on all the UPnP bits in the novice
machine, and hope that any NAT they are behind is UPnP enabled. Using
Messenger to pass the invitation also helps--but nothing is foolproof.

In the end, if the NAT isn't UPnP, it is possible to manually edit the
invitation file to correct the private address shown with the public address
of the router--but the router still must be set to forward to the Novice
machine. This just can't work in some situations, I'm afraid--i.e. not
without informed help in making changes to the nat/router settings.

"Michiel Doeven" <m.i.c.h.i.e.l@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:23d081b.0408040946.66138365@posting.google.com...
> Hello,
>
> I have the following problem:
>
> There are two "mobile" computers that have both access to the internet
> and connect with MSN. Usually, one will connect through a phone-line
> and the other with a DSL-line, but it can change according to
> circumstances.
>
> On one side the computer is used by a novice user and the other side
> by an expert.
>
> The expert wants to remotely assist the novice user. To do this I
> wanted to use remote assistent. The problem with it, that it only seem
> to work if the computers can be connected directly with IP-adresses.
> So if a router is in between or if I don't know the IP-adres,
> connection fails.
>
> What I want to do, is remotely assist a computer that is on the
> internet with another computer that is on the internet. It's something
> that should be possible considering applications like MSN, Kazaa, etc.
>
> My question: How?
>
> Solutions like Radmin and VNC are not an option, because I need to
> reroute possible routers etc; that's not an option because of the
> novice user and the constant changing way in which connection to the
> internet is established.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Best regards,
>
> Michiel Doeven
Anonymous
August 5, 2004 8:57:30 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.work_remotely (More info?)

Well, this was what I was afraid of.

And if this is really the case, then what is the extra value of
"Remote assistance"? With the remote desktop, you can achieve almost
the same (only the other side can view what's happening).

I thought/hoped that remote assistance was able to connect to PC's
without reconfiguring routers, etc.

As an example, when using Kazaa, I'm directly downloading; isn't there
a solution that uses Kazaa's (or something similar) technology to be
able to remote assist. Same with MSN (only the messages are rather
small); you can send messages to someone on a PC connected to the
internet (this is with the help of a server I guess)..

Nevertheless, I hope somebody can tell me how to do this.

Thanks,

Michiel

"Bill Sanderson" <Bill_Sanderson@msn.com.plugh.org> wrote in message news:<ey$SUameEHA.556@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl>...
> You need to know the IP address--that's the whole basis of Internet (or even
> network) communication.
>
> You can solve that piece with a dynamic DNS provider.
>
> The next bit is tougher. NAT's or firewalls will always interfere
> (appropriately and intentionally) with inbound communication.
>
> About the best you can do is to turn on all the UPnP bits in the novice
> machine, and hope that any NAT they are behind is UPnP enabled. Using
> Messenger to pass the invitation also helps--but nothing is foolproof.
>
> In the end, if the NAT isn't UPnP, it is possible to manually edit the
> invitation file to correct the private address shown with the public address
> of the router--but the router still must be set to forward to the Novice
> machine. This just can't work in some situations, I'm afraid--i.e. not
> without informed help in making changes to the nat/router settings.
>
Related resources
Anonymous
August 5, 2004 1:53:58 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.work_remotely (More info?)

Maybe Jeffrey will chime in--I believe he understands the invitation-passing
mechanisms better than I do.

When you use Windows Messenger to pass the invitation, I believe the analogy
to Kazaa is fairly close--there's an informed intermediary server which
facilitates the connection.

I don't have enough experience with Kazaa to know how it deals with
firewalls and NAT's--but I don't think it has any more magic than Remote
Assistance does.

RA is definitely more complex and finicky than Remote Desktop is. There is
a great deal of care taken in both features to assure privacy and
safety--considerably more than Kazaa.


"Michiel Doeven" <m.i.c.h.i.e.l@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:23d081b.0408050357.4372be9a@posting.google.com...
> Well, this was what I was afraid of.
>
> And if this is really the case, then what is the extra value of
> "Remote assistance"? With the remote desktop, you can achieve almost
> the same (only the other side can view what's happening).
>
> I thought/hoped that remote assistance was able to connect to PC's
> without reconfiguring routers, etc.
>
> As an example, when using Kazaa, I'm directly downloading; isn't there
> a solution that uses Kazaa's (or something similar) technology to be
> able to remote assist. Same with MSN (only the messages are rather
> small); you can send messages to someone on a PC connected to the
> internet (this is with the help of a server I guess)..
>
> Nevertheless, I hope somebody can tell me how to do this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michiel
>
> "Bill Sanderson" <Bill_Sanderson@msn.com.plugh.org> wrote in message
> news:<ey$SUameEHA.556@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl>...
>> You need to know the IP address--that's the whole basis of Internet (or
>> even
>> network) communication.
>>
>> You can solve that piece with a dynamic DNS provider.
>>
>> The next bit is tougher. NAT's or firewalls will always interfere
>> (appropriately and intentionally) with inbound communication.
>>
>> About the best you can do is to turn on all the UPnP bits in the novice
>> machine, and hope that any NAT they are behind is UPnP enabled. Using
>> Messenger to pass the invitation also helps--but nothing is foolproof.
>>
>> In the end, if the NAT isn't UPnP, it is possible to manually edit the
>> invitation file to correct the private address shown with the public
>> address
>> of the router--but the router still must be set to forward to the Novice
>> machine. This just can't work in some situations, I'm afraid--i.e. not
>> without informed help in making changes to the nat/router settings.
>>
Anonymous
August 6, 2004 1:54:16 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.work_remotely (More info?)

Here is what I could find (and it is a KB article to remember):

Description of the Windows Messenger Reverse Connection Process Used
by Remote Assistance
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;306298

referenced from:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/helpandsupport...

Jeffrey Randow (Windows Networking & Smart Display MVP)
jeffreyr-support@remotenetworktechnology.com

Please post all responses to the newsgroups for the benefit
of all USENET users. Messages sent via email may or may not
be answered depending on time availability....

Remote Networking Technology Support Site -
http://www.remotenetworktechnology.com
Windows XP Expert Zone - http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:53:58 -0400, "Bill Sanderson"
<Bill_Sanderson@msn.com.plugh.org> wrote:

>Maybe Jeffrey will chime in--I believe he understands the invitation-passing
>mechanisms better than I do.
>
>When you use Windows Messenger to pass the invitation, I believe the analogy
>to Kazaa is fairly close--there's an informed intermediary server which
>facilitates the connection.
>
>I don't have enough experience with Kazaa to know how it deals with
>firewalls and NAT's--but I don't think it has any more magic than Remote
>Assistance does.
>
>RA is definitely more complex and finicky than Remote Desktop is. There is
>a great deal of care taken in both features to assure privacy and
>safety--considerably more than Kazaa.
>
>
>"Michiel Doeven" <m.i.c.h.i.e.l@planet.nl> wrote in message
>news:23d081b.0408050357.4372be9a@posting.google.com...
>> Well, this was what I was afraid of.
>>
>> And if this is really the case, then what is the extra value of
>> "Remote assistance"? With the remote desktop, you can achieve almost
>> the same (only the other side can view what's happening).
>>
>> I thought/hoped that remote assistance was able to connect to PC's
>> without reconfiguring routers, etc.
>>
>> As an example, when using Kazaa, I'm directly downloading; isn't there
>> a solution that uses Kazaa's (or something similar) technology to be
>> able to remote assist. Same with MSN (only the messages are rather
>> small); you can send messages to someone on a PC connected to the
>> internet (this is with the help of a server I guess)..
>>
>> Nevertheless, I hope somebody can tell me how to do this.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Michiel
>>
>> "Bill Sanderson" <Bill_Sanderson@msn.com.plugh.org> wrote in message
>> news:<ey$SUameEHA.556@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl>...
>>> You need to know the IP address--that's the whole basis of Internet (or
>>> even
>>> network) communication.
>>>
>>> You can solve that piece with a dynamic DNS provider.
>>>
>>> The next bit is tougher. NAT's or firewalls will always interfere
>>> (appropriately and intentionally) with inbound communication.
>>>
>>> About the best you can do is to turn on all the UPnP bits in the novice
>>> machine, and hope that any NAT they are behind is UPnP enabled. Using
>>> Messenger to pass the invitation also helps--but nothing is foolproof.
>>>
>>> In the end, if the NAT isn't UPnP, it is possible to manually edit the
>>> invitation file to correct the private address shown with the public
>>> address
>>> of the router--but the router still must be set to forward to the Novice
>>> machine. This just can't work in some situations, I'm afraid--i.e. not
>>> without informed help in making changes to the nat/router settings.
>>>
>
Anonymous
August 16, 2004 1:31:14 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.work_remotely (More info?)

Thanks - I need to revamp my system for pulling this stuff up.

"Jeffrey Randow (MVP)" <jeffreyr-support@remotenetworktechnology.com> wrote
in message news:0ls5h0pf9lu5doe1hvitfflknn4n896h7f@4ax.com...
> Here is what I could find (and it is a KB article to remember):
>
> Description of the Windows Messenger Reverse Connection Process Used
> by Remote Assistance
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;306298
>
> referenced from:
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/helpandsupport...
>
> Jeffrey Randow (Windows Networking & Smart Display MVP)
> jeffreyr-support@remotenetworktechnology.com
>
> Please post all responses to the newsgroups for the benefit
> of all USENET users. Messages sent via email may or may not
> be answered depending on time availability....
>
> Remote Networking Technology Support Site -
> http://www.remotenetworktechnology.com
> Windows XP Expert Zone - http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>
> On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:53:58 -0400, "Bill Sanderson"
> <Bill_Sanderson@msn.com.plugh.org> wrote:
>
>>Maybe Jeffrey will chime in--I believe he understands the
>>invitation-passing
>>mechanisms better than I do.
>>
>>When you use Windows Messenger to pass the invitation, I believe the
>>analogy
>>to Kazaa is fairly close--there's an informed intermediary server which
>>facilitates the connection.
>>
>>I don't have enough experience with Kazaa to know how it deals with
>>firewalls and NAT's--but I don't think it has any more magic than Remote
>>Assistance does.
>>
>>RA is definitely more complex and finicky than Remote Desktop is. There
>>is
>>a great deal of care taken in both features to assure privacy and
>>safety--considerably more than Kazaa.
>>
>>
>>"Michiel Doeven" <m.i.c.h.i.e.l@planet.nl> wrote in message
>>news:23d081b.0408050357.4372be9a@posting.google.com...
>>> Well, this was what I was afraid of.
>>>
>>> And if this is really the case, then what is the extra value of
>>> "Remote assistance"? With the remote desktop, you can achieve almost
>>> the same (only the other side can view what's happening).
>>>
>>> I thought/hoped that remote assistance was able to connect to PC's
>>> without reconfiguring routers, etc.
>>>
>>> As an example, when using Kazaa, I'm directly downloading; isn't there
>>> a solution that uses Kazaa's (or something similar) technology to be
>>> able to remote assist. Same with MSN (only the messages are rather
>>> small); you can send messages to someone on a PC connected to the
>>> internet (this is with the help of a server I guess)..
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, I hope somebody can tell me how to do this.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Michiel
>>>
>>> "Bill Sanderson" <Bill_Sanderson@msn.com.plugh.org> wrote in message
>>> news:<ey$SUameEHA.556@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl>...
>>>> You need to know the IP address--that's the whole basis of Internet (or
>>>> even
>>>> network) communication.
>>>>
>>>> You can solve that piece with a dynamic DNS provider.
>>>>
>>>> The next bit is tougher. NAT's or firewalls will always interfere
>>>> (appropriately and intentionally) with inbound communication.
>>>>
>>>> About the best you can do is to turn on all the UPnP bits in the novice
>>>> machine, and hope that any NAT they are behind is UPnP enabled. Using
>>>> Messenger to pass the invitation also helps--but nothing is foolproof.
>>>>
>>>> In the end, if the NAT isn't UPnP, it is possible to manually edit the
>>>> invitation file to correct the private address shown with the public
>>>> address
>>>> of the router--but the router still must be set to forward to the
>>>> Novice
>>>> machine. This just can't work in some situations, I'm afraid--i.e. not
>>>> without informed help in making changes to the nat/router settings.
>>>>
>>
>
!