Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Coverting Pal to NTSC?

Tags:
  • Tuner Cards
  • DVD
  • Desktops
  • Video
  • Graphics
Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 4:01:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

hi

I am working on a project that requires me to produce NTSC DVD's for some
friends in the USA. Can someone advise on the best way to convert my avi
files in pal to NTSC. I am using tpmg for coding and DVD authoring and
editing with adobe prem 6.1.

Many Thanks

John D

More about : coverting pal ntsc

Anonymous
November 20, 2004 8:39:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

> hi
>
> I am working on a project that requires me to produce NTSC DVD's for some
> friends in the USA. Can someone advise on the best way to convert my avi
> files in pal to NTSC. I am using tpmg for coding and DVD authoring and
> editing with adobe prem 6.1.
>
> Many Thanks
>
> John D

This site seems to be down, but here is the Google cache...

 d7JAi_zE5MJ:www.geocities.com/xesdeeni" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:p d7JAi_zE5MJ:www.g...
2001/StandardsConversion/+avisynth+standards+conversion&hl=en&start=2
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 9:06:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

John DH <xyzjohn@celticgods.co.ukxyz> wrote:
: hi

: I am working on a project that requires me to produce NTSC DVD's for some
: friends in the USA. Can someone advise on the best way to convert my avi
: files in pal to NTSC. I am using tpmg for coding and DVD authoring and
: editing with adobe prem 6.1.

I use AVISynth script that I wrote for myself to convert from PAL to NTSC.
You need to download AVISynth from AVISynth.org. The script itself is
doing an ok job, but I'm not too happy with it when there're some fast
motions. I have a similar script going from NTSC to PAL which works great.
Anyway here it is PAL2NTSC.avs.You need to customize it for your application
though. For example
I use AVISource("secam.avi"), but you may want to use your file name. Also I
use 704x480 rather than 720x480 so you will have to change it.

AVISource("secam.avi")
SeparateFields()
Weave()
# comment the below line if the field order of the source is wrong (DV source for instance)
ComplementParity()
SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true)
LanczosResize(704,480)
# ConvertFPS(59.94) gives a bit smoother transition whereas ChangeFPS(59.94)
# gives a bit more natural transition. Play with both see what is better.
ChangeFPS(59.94)
SeparateFields()
# for DV output use SelectEvery(4,1,2)
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
Weave()
ConvertToRGB(interlaced=true)

--Leonid

PS. If some AVISynth experts are willing to comment, feel free.
Related resources
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 9:20:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On 20 Nov 2004 18:06:59 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:

>SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true)

SmoothDeinterlace is rather old. KernelDeint's KernelBob function is
better: http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1032865#...
In that thread I also mention a Doom9 thread in which Xesdeeni writes:
"All that being said, I was recently pointed to KernelDeint/KernelBob by
scharfis_brain. I've modified my conversion script to use this instead,
and the results are at least as good as with SmoothDeinterlacer. Also,
they appear to be faster with the older script-based KernelBob. The
above-linked version should be faster still. So while it pains me to say
this, I'd recommend using KernelDeint instead."
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 9:48:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

erratic <erratic@reply-to.address> wrote:
:>SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true)

: SmoothDeinterlace is rather old. KernelDeint's KernelBob function is
: better: http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1032865#...
: In that thread I also mention a Doom9 thread in which Xesdeeni writes:
: "All that being said, I was recently pointed to KernelDeint/KernelBob by
: scharfis_brain. I've modified my conversion script to use this instead,
: and the results are at least as good as with SmoothDeinterlacer. Also,
: they appear to be faster with the older script-based KernelBob. The
: above-linked version should be faster still. So while it pains me to say
: this, I'd recommend using KernelDeint instead."

So what the script should look like?

--Leonid
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 9:55:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On 20 Nov 2004 18:48:18 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:

>So what the script should look like?

Simplified version of your Avisynth script:

AviSource("secam.avi")
KernelBob(order=1) # for TFF source, order=0 for BFF (DV)
Lanczos4Resize(704,480)
ConvertFPS(59.94) # or ChangeFPS if you prefer
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
Weave()

The script requires Avisynth 2.5.5 and the KernelDeint 1.5.2 plugin.
According to 'scharfis_brain' (Doom9 forums expert) TDeint is even
better than KernelDeint, but TDeint was about 4 times slower when I
tried it.

Also, ChangeFPS creates duplicate fields. You can test this by omitting
the Weave() command and watching the script with VirtualDub. ConvertFPS
doesn't create duplicate fields but inserts new blended fields instead.
You'll have to decide for yourself what you prefer.
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 10:06:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 18:55:41 GMT, erratic <erratic@reply-to.address>
wrote:

>AviSource("secam.avi")
>KernelBob(order=1) # for TFF source, order=0 for BFF (DV)
>Lanczos4Resize(704,480)

Or LanczosResize(720,480) if your source is 720x576 of course.

>ConvertFPS(59.94) # or ChangeFPS if you prefer
>SeparateFields()
>SelectEvery(4,0,3)
>Weave()

It's a good idea to add ConvertToRGB(interlaced=true) if your encoder is
TMPGEnc (you already added that in the script you posted).
For CCE ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true) is recommended.
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 10:44:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

erratic <erratic@reply-to.address> wrote:
:>So what the script should look like?

: Simplified version of your Avisynth script:

: AviSource("secam.avi")
: KernelBob(order=1) # for TFF source, order=0 for BFF (DV)
: Lanczos4Resize(704,480)
: ConvertFPS(59.94) # or ChangeFPS if you prefer
: SeparateFields()
: SelectEvery(4,0,3)
: Weave()

: The script requires Avisynth 2.5.5 and the KernelDeint 1.5.2 plugin.
: According to 'scharfis_brain' (Doom9 forums expert) TDeint is even
: better than KernelDeint, but TDeint was about 4 times slower when I
: tried it.

: Also, ChangeFPS creates duplicate fields. You can test this by omitting
: the Weave() command and watching the script with VirtualDub. ConvertFPS
: doesn't create duplicate fields but inserts new blended fields instead.
: You'll have to decide for yourself what you prefer.

Where do you get the plugins without source code?

--Leonid
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 10:49:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

erratic <erratic@reply-to.address> wrote:
: According to 'scharfis_brain' (Doom9 forums expert) TDeint is even
: better than KernelDeint, but TDeint was about 4 times slower when I
: tried it.

I wanna try TDeint. http://www.avisynth.org/warpenterprises/ doesn't have
it. Any clue?

: Also, ChangeFPS creates duplicate fields. You can test this by omitting
: the Weave() command and watching the script with VirtualDub. ConvertFPS
: doesn't create duplicate fields but inserts new blended fields instead.
: You'll have to decide for yourself what you prefer.

The above applies if you go from PAL to NTSC, right?

--Leonid
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 10:53:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On 20 Nov 2004 19:44:07 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:

>Where do you get the plugins without source code?

I don't think KernelDeint 1.5.2 is available without the source code,
but it's only a 94 KB download.
http://gast3.ssw.uni-linz.ac.at/~kp/AviSynth/KernelDein...
http://www.avisynth.org/warpenterprises/files/kerneldei...

You only have to copy the .dll file in the Avisynth plugins folder.
I suppose it's a good idea to have the KernelDeintHelp.html file
available too.
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 11:00:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On 20 Nov 2004 19:49:21 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:

>The above applies if you go from PAL to NTSC, right?

I suppose that's true. I've never converted NTSC to PAL.

TDeint plugin: http://bengal.missouri.edu/~kes25c/TDeintv096.zip
Doom9 thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?&threadid=82264

Usage for TFF video:
TDeint(mode=1,order=1,type=2)

Read TDeint.txt for more information or post your questions about it
in the Doom9 thread.
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 11:05:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On 20 Nov 2004 19:49:21 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:

>The above applies if you go from PAL to NTSC, right?

To clarify my earlier answer:

Yes, some fields are duplicated with changefps when you convert PAL to
NTSC because new frames have to be created.

I don't think fields are duplicated when you convert NTSC to PAL because
in that case frames/fields have to be removed, but I've never tried NTSC
to PAL.
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 11:18:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

>I don't think KernelDeint 1.5.2 is available without the source code,
>but it's only a 94 KB download.

And by the way, if you have questions about KernelDeint (KernelBob)
you should post them in the KernelDeint thread in Doom9's forum:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?&threadid=81322
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 11:50:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 13:01:18 -0000, "John DH"
<xyzjohn@celticgods.co.ukxyz> wrote:

>I am working on a project that requires me to produce NTSC DVD's for some
>friends in the USA. Can someone advise on the best way to convert my avi
>files in pal to NTSC.

If you find Avisynth too complicated, you could buy ProCoder Express for
about $60. It converts PAL to NTSC very well.
http://www.canopus.us/US/products/procoder_express/pt_p...
Anonymous
November 20, 2004 11:54:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

erratic <erratic@reply-to.address> wrote:
: I don't think fields are duplicated when you convert NTSC to PAL because
: in that case frames/fields have to be removed, but I've never tried NTSC
: to PAL.

I did with this script:
AVISource("any filename.avi or vd.vdr")
ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)
SeparateFields()
Weave()
# comment the below line if the field order of the source is wrong (DV source for instance)
ComplementParity()
SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true)
ConvertFPS(50)
LanczosResize(704,576)
SeparateFields()
# for DV output use SelectEvery(4,1,2)
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
Weave()
ConvertToRGB(interlaced=true)

and it looked great. I'm trying TDeint now. Very slow. I will post results. Thanks.


--Leonid
Anonymous
November 21, 2004 12:10:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On 20 Nov 2004 20:54:41 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:

>ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)

Only necessary if your source is YV12 (MPEG-2 for example) or RGB.
ConvertFPS requires YUY2. ChangeFPS supports YV12 and RGB also.

>SeparateFields()
>Weave()

Doesn't really do anything: separating the field and then weaving then
back together doesn't change anything. Definitely not necessary with
KernelBob or TDeint.

># comment the below line if the field order of the source is wrong (DV source for instance)
>ComplementParity()

Not necessary if you set the field order correctly in TDeint or
KernelBob.

># for DV output use SelectEvery(4,1,2)
>SelectEvery(4,0,3)

With KernelBob or TDeint SelectEvery(4,0,3) always maintains the field
order of the source (if set correctly in the first place).
SelectEvery(4,1,2) changes the field order.

If you omit the field order in TDeint's parameters it will use the field
order that avisynth reports. The avisynth default is BFF but you can
change it with the AssumeTFF() command, for example:

AVISource("capture.avi")
AssumeTFF() # informs avisynth that field order of the source is TFF
Anonymous
November 21, 2004 1:36:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Thanks

I had a look at AVISynth, I'm going to give it a try. It does look a little
more complex than I thought, but then so did TMPGenc until I got to grips
with it.

Cheers

John D
Anonymous
November 29, 2004 7:12:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:
: and it looked great. I'm trying TDeint now. Very slow. I will post results.

Well, it took me quite a while to view the results. So I compared just
deinterlace, KernelDeint and TDeint with ConvertFPS, ChangeFPS each. I honestly
didn't see much difference between these 3. The only difference was of course
with ChangeFPS vs ConvertFPS.

Fast motions look jerky on all the conversions and there's nothing you can do.

Recently I came across a VHS tape that was made for North America. The original
footage was filmed in London, UK (PAL film). I captured it and thought maybe I
could construct the the NTSC film out of it. No way. I looked at each frame and
noticed that when they converted it for US market, they were putting 2 PAL
fields into 1 NTSC field (yes, field - not frame) one after another smoothing
every next one. The motion was actually smoother than what we were trying
with AVISynth! But it still looked blury and ugly.

--Leondi
Anonymous
November 29, 2004 10:21:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On 29 Nov 2004 04:12:58 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:

>Well, it took me quite a while to view the results. So I compared just
>deinterlace, KernelDeint and TDeint with ConvertFPS, ChangeFPS each. I honestly
>didn't see much difference between these 3. The only difference was of course
>with ChangeFPS vs ConvertFPS.

I didn't see a significant quality difference between KernelDeint and
TDeint, but KernelDeint (KernelBob) is much faster. However, after
SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true) there's a double frame at the
beginning of the file. You can test this by watching this script in
VirtualDub:

AviSource("capture.avi")
SmoothDeinterlace(tff=true,doublerate=true)

You will see that the first and second frame of the video are the same.
That shouldn't happen. KernelBob and TDeint don't duplicate the first
frame.

>Recently I came across a VHS tape that was made for North America. The original
>footage was filmed in London, UK (PAL film). I captured it and thought maybe I
>could construct the the NTSC film out of it. No way. I looked at each frame and
>noticed that when they converted it for US market, they were putting 2 PAL
>fields into 1 NTSC field (yes, field - not frame) one after another smoothing
>every next one. The motion was actually smoother than what we were trying
>with AVISynth! But it still looked blury and ugly.

They often do weird things to video when converting PAL<->NTSC.
If you read the TDeint thread in Doom9's forum you'll notice that some
people are trying hard to restore that kind of video to something that
looks acceptable. The TDeint programmer is working on a new Avisynth
plugin (old name TFM, new name TIVTC).
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?&threadid=82264&p...
Anonymous
November 29, 2004 10:53:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

erratic <erratic@reply-to.address> wrote:
: I didn't see a significant quality difference between KernelDeint and
: TDeint, but KernelDeint (KernelBob) is much faster. However, after
: SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true) there's a double frame at the
: beginning of the file. You can test this by watching this script in
: VirtualDub:

I didn't know that. So basically it puts the sound 2 frames ahead, then.


No wonder when I converted to PAL once, I noticed that the sound was just
a bit ahead.

--Leonid
Anonymous
November 29, 2004 11:12:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On 29 Nov 2004 19:53:03 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:

>I didn't know that. So basically it puts the sound 2 frames ahead, then.

The difference should only be one field after converting PAL<->NTSC.
These so-called "bobbers" separate the fields and convert every field
to a full frame. That's why the framerate doubles after bobbing.

SmoothDeinterlacer(doublerate=true) somehow creates two new frames
(instead of one) from the first field of the original video. But I'm not
sure what SmoothDeinterlacer does to the sound. I think the difference
should be too small to notice anyway, otherwise there would have been
many complaints about the SmoothDeinterlace script.
Anonymous
November 30, 2004 1:37:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On 29 Nov 2004 04:12:58 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu>
wrote:


>Well, it took me quite a while to view the results. So I compared just
>deinterlace, KernelDeint and TDeint with ConvertFPS, ChangeFPS each. I honestly
>didn't see much difference between these 3. The only difference was of course
>with ChangeFPS vs ConvertFPS.

Is the PAL footage originally film transferred to video or is it
actual interlaced PAL video?
-----------------------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)
-----------------------------------------------------
I have no fears in life,
for I have already survived Theta-G!
Anonymous
November 30, 2004 8:51:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Neil Nadelman <arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)> wrote:
: Is the PAL footage originally film transferred to video or is it
: actual interlaced PAL video?

The original footage came from SECAM (!!!) VHS that was recorded off of Russian
TV broadcast. So yes it was interlaced 25fps video which is very tough to x-fer
to interlaced NTSC.

--Leonid
Anonymous
November 30, 2004 8:56:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

erratic <erratic@reply-to.address> wrote:
: They often do weird things to video when converting PAL<->NTSC.
: If you read the TDeint thread in Doom9's forum you'll notice that some
: people are trying hard to restore that kind of video to something that
: looks acceptable. The TDeint programmer is working on a new Avisynth
: plugin (old name TFM, new name TIVTC).
: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?&threadid=82264&p...

By the way, I have now a general rule of thumb. If I want to buy a concert,
and the concert was shot in Europe, I tend to hunt the PAL DVD. If in US, then
NTSC. Sometimes they shoot it as film. Then I'd prefer progressive scan NTSC film.

--Leonid
Anonymous
December 1, 2004 11:32:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On 30 Nov 2004 05:51:41 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu>
wrote:

>Neil Nadelman <arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)> wrote:
>: Is the PAL footage originally film transferred to video or is it
>: actual interlaced PAL video?
>
>The original footage came from SECAM (!!!) VHS that was recorded off of Russian
>TV broadcast. So yes it was interlaced 25fps video which is very tough to x-fer
>to interlaced NTSC.

Have you checked this out?

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35387...

It's an AVISynth script to convert interlaced PAL to interlaced NTSC.

-----------------------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)
-----------------------------------------------------
I have no fears in life,
for I have already survived Theta-G!
Anonymous
December 2, 2004 10:06:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

That's what we've been discussing....

--Leonid

Neil Nadelman <arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)> wrote:
: On 30 Nov 2004 05:51:41 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu>
: wrote:

:>Neil Nadelman <arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)> wrote:
:>: Is the PAL footage originally film transferred to video or is it
:>: actual interlaced PAL video?
:>
:>The original footage came from SECAM (!!!) VHS that was recorded off of Russian
:>TV broadcast. So yes it was interlaced 25fps video which is very tough to x-fer
:>to interlaced NTSC.

: Have you checked this out?

: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35387...

: It's an AVISynth script to convert interlaced PAL to interlaced NTSC.

: -----------------------------------------------------
: Neil Nadelman arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)
: -----------------------------------------------------
: I have no fears in life,
: for I have already survived Theta-G!
Anonymous
December 2, 2004 2:44:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On 2 Dec 2004 07:06:04 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:

>That's what we've been discussing....
>
>--Leonid

Oh!

(NEIL BLUSHES AND SLINKS AWAY)
-----------------------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)
-----------------------------------------------------
I have no fears in life,
for I have already survived Theta-G!
!