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HELP: Software Options for Editing MPG's

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Anonymous
December 23, 2004 10:11:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,alt.video.dvd.software (More info?)

Hi,

The long story ... see QUESTION below to skip the background, please!

About a year ago I purchased a PC with all the video and DVD gadgets I've
always wanted. And I've had some solid success copy VHS tapes to DVD and
creating DVD's from digitally recorded TV and even copying DVD's.

I've spent way more on software than I care to admit. Much of it, in
hindsight, was a waste of money. However, I thought I had a working set
that was solid. Now I'm thinking again :) 

I've used Showbiz DVD 2 for editing MPG's. It came bundled with my machine
and seemed easy enough to use, if not a little quirky at times. For one
hour TV shows, I can fairly easily trim out commercials. On my machine it's
workable, albeit also a bit slow. On my SO's machine (identical to mine), I
can't edit even a short clip in a reasonable timeframe. The software seems
to swap miserably. And constantly.

I recently recorded a show on PBS. The total was 3+ hours, but it had all
of the membership drive stuff mixed in. Actually, thinking about it, it was
4 hours total w/probably about 2-2.5 or so hours of real material. Several
problems became apparent while working with this clip.

I was able to copy the first 2+ hours of the segment to a separate MPG and
cut out the commercials and membership drive data. This worked OK, but it
was painfully slow trying to move around the video. Constant disk activity,
although CPU was always reasonably low use. I've got 512MB on this machine,
and I had closed out anything else that might have caused stress.

Trying to extract the second half of the video into a separate MPG became
the biggest challenge. We'll call it seemingly impossible, although, given
a couple of weeks, I might have been able to get the job done. I even added
another 512 MB (1gig total RAM) to my machine figuring it would help. It
made no difference at all.

It also appears that the second half of the original MPG (converted from
dvr-ms format) lost its sound anyway. So, I'll have to look for another
chance to get the second half. I don't know if this was the cable channel
itself, the dvr-ms file recording or the conversion to MPEG. I can
certainly limit my recordings to 2 hour segments in the future.

QUESTION

What are the MPG Editor options that a) work and work efficiently with small
AND large files and b) are not cost-prohibitive. Cost is a subjecttive area
.... I'll pay for something that works, but I'm not really wanting to spend
hundreds more. Freeware? Am I dreaming??? :) 

I just tried something that seemed to work and I liked. Editing was TOO
easy and quick ... let's see what it is called: VideoReDo. However, the
resulting MPG file is herky-jerky; strange, short speedups every 2-3
seconds. Great editing, but it doesn't do me much good it the results don't
save correctly.

What do you all prefer as far as editing MPG files does? Are there any
inexpensive yet functional and stable products to try?

Thanks in advance for all opinions,

Nick
Anonymous
December 23, 2004 10:11:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,alt.video.dvd.software (More info?)

"Nick Knight" <bhnc_140_@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:41cb1852$1$avpx$mr2ice@news.east.earthlink.net...
> Hi,
>
> The long story ... see QUESTION below to skip the background, please!
>

> I just tried something that seemed to work and I liked. Editing was TOO
> easy and quick ... let's see what it is called: VideoReDo. However, the
> resulting MPG file is herky-jerky; strange, short speedups every 2-3
> seconds. Great editing, but it doesn't do me much good it the results
> don't
> save correctly.
>
------------------------------
This jerky performance, is it only in VideoReDo's editing preview,
or is it there when the .mpg is played afterwards ?

Are you getting any of the red text messages after the cuts are
processed?

Have you tried adjusting any of the settings?
----------------------------
> What do you all prefer as far as editing MPG files does? Are there any
> inexpensive yet functional and stable products to try?
>
> Thanks in advance for all opinions,
>
> Nick
>
Anonymous
December 23, 2004 11:48:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,alt.video.dvd.software (More info?)

In <CrSdnS1F9_78glbcRVn-ow@giganews.com>, on 12/23/2004
at 01:41 PM, "Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> said:

>> I just tried something that seemed to work and I liked. Editing was TOO
>> easy and quick ... let's see what it is called: VideoReDo. However, the
>> resulting MPG file is herky-jerky; strange, short speedups every 2-3
>> seconds. Great editing, but it doesn't do me much good it the results
>> don't
>> save correctly.
>------------------------------

> This jerky performance, is it only in VideoReDo's editing preview, or
>is it there when the .mpg is played afterwards ?

I saved the edited clip to disk as a new MPG. Playing that MPG back shows
the jerky behaviour.

> Are you getting any of the red text messages after the cuts are
>processed?

I didn't see any red text messages. I also wasn't paying attention. This
is on saving the MPG? I walked away after a minute or so of that. I saw no
error messages.

> Have you tried adjusting any of the settings?

Nope. I suppose I'll take a look, since you mentioned it. I take it you
use and like this product? I'd love to see it save correctly. I'd be happy
then!

Nick
Related resources
Anonymous
December 23, 2004 11:48:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,alt.video.dvd.software (More info?)

"Nick Knight" <bhnc_140_@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:41cb2f29$2$avpx$mr2ice@news.east.earthlink.net...
> In <CrSdnS1F9_78glbcRVn-ow@giganews.com>, on 12/23/2004
> at 01:41 PM, "Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> said:
>
>>> I just tried something that seemed to work and I liked. Editing was TOO
>>> easy and quick ... let's see what it is called: VideoReDo. However,
>>> the
>>> resulting MPG file is herky-jerky; strange, short speedups every 2-3
>>> seconds. Great editing, but it doesn't do me much good it the results
>>> don't
>>> save correctly.
>>------------------------------
>
>> This jerky performance, is it only in VideoReDo's editing preview, or
>>is it there when the .mpg is played afterwards ?
>
> I saved the edited clip to disk as a new MPG. Playing that MPG back shows
> the jerky behaviour.
>
You might try using different players, as the playback codec used
could be a factor, although I've never found one that had a problem
with VideoReDo's output.

>> Are you getting any of the red text messages after the cuts are
>>processed?
>
> I didn't see any red text messages. I also wasn't paying attention. This
> is on saving the MPG? I walked away after a minute or so of that. I saw
> no
> error messages.
>

They would have been in the gray box that pops up after
the new .mpg is processed.


>> Have you tried adjusting any of the settings?
>
> Nope. I suppose I'll take a look, since you mentioned it. I take it you
> use and like this product? I'd love to see it save correctly. I'd be
> happy
> then!
>
> Nick

It has worked great for me. Another thing you might try is
running the effected .mpg through the "Quickfix", it might find
the problem and fix it. Oh, and how does it work with .mpg
from another source and other ones from the same source?
( It might help to know if the problem is related to an
interaction with certain .mpg or more general.)

I looked through the forum at: http://forums.videoredo.com/
and didn't see anything that looked exactly like your problem,
but it was more of a quick scan so you could still find an answer
there. You could post your problem there and have a good
chance that Dan or someone else will have a better solution.

In my opinion it would be well worth the effort to work out
any problem, with VideoReDo or find were any conflict exists
with your current setup. You might want to give the new
TMPGEnc Editor a try though, even if just to see if you still
have the problem when using that.
www.pegasys-inc.com

Luck;
Ken
Anonymous
December 24, 2004 12:02:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,alt.video.dvd.software (More info?)

Make sure your issues arent related to PAL and NTSC video mixups. What is
the source video(PAL/NTSC), what output settings are you using(PAL/NTSC).


"Nick Knight" <bhnc_140_@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:41cb2f29$2$avpx$mr2ice@news.east.earthlink.net...
> In <CrSdnS1F9_78glbcRVn-ow@giganews.com>, on 12/23/2004
> at 01:41 PM, "Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> said:
>
> >> I just tried something that seemed to work and I liked. Editing was
TOO
> >> easy and quick ... let's see what it is called: VideoReDo. However,
the
> >> resulting MPG file is herky-jerky; strange, short speedups every 2-3
> >> seconds. Great editing, but it doesn't do me much good it the results
> >> don't
> >> save correctly.
> >------------------------------
>
> > This jerky performance, is it only in VideoReDo's editing preview, or
> >is it there when the .mpg is played afterwards ?
>
> I saved the edited clip to disk as a new MPG. Playing that MPG back shows
> the jerky behaviour.
>
> > Are you getting any of the red text messages after the cuts are
> >processed?
>
> I didn't see any red text messages. I also wasn't paying attention. This
> is on saving the MPG? I walked away after a minute or so of that. I saw
no
> error messages.
>
> > Have you tried adjusting any of the settings?
>
> Nope. I suppose I'll take a look, since you mentioned it. I take it you
> use and like this product? I'd love to see it save correctly. I'd be
happy
> then!
>
> Nick
>
Anonymous
December 24, 2004 12:33:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,alt.video.dvd.software (More info?)

On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:11:16 GMT) it happened "Nick Knight"
<bhnc_140_@mindspring.com> wrote in
<41cb1852$1$avpx$mr2ice@news.east.earthlink.net>:
>What do you all prefer as far as editing MPG files does? Are there any
>inexpensive yet functional and stable products to try?
>
>Thanks in advance for all opinions,
>
>Nick
Set apart a few GB on the disk for Linux,
simple editing of mpeg (per GOP) use lve.
Want more complicated stuff, try http://heroinewarrior.com
So how much have you spend now?
Nopes if you downloaded Linux, else, strongly recommended for a beginner
with Unix, get some distribution, sets you back maybe 50$, and gives you
thousands of free not limited programs that really use your hardware to the
full extend, support 64 bit platforms, best networking these exists.
Designed for performance, not made like a dog with 3 legs as MS windows.
JP
Anonymous
December 24, 2004 5:44:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,alt.video.dvd.software (More info?)

In article <41cb1852$1$avpx$mr2ice@news.east.earthlink.net>, bhnc_140
_@mindspring.com says...
> easy and quick ... let's see what it is called: VideoReDo. However, the
> resulting MPG file is herky-jerky; strange, short speedups every 2-3
> seconds. Great editing, but it doesn't do me much good it the results don't
> save correctly.
>
> What do you all prefer as far as editing MPG files does? Are there any
> inexpensive yet functional and stable products to try?
>
> Thanks in advance for all opinions,
>
> Nick
>

http://www.womble.com Mpeg Video Wizard. If you have a wheel mouse it
makes use of the wheel to scoll forward and back.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 7:58:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,alt.video.dvd.software (More info?)

In <1103837647.66a0172ad1f9f78d7a0632e5ce6d7044@teranews>, on 12/23/2004
at 09:33 PM, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> said:

>>What do you all prefer as far as editing MPG files does? Are there any
>>inexpensive yet functional and stable products to try?

>Set apart a few GB on the disk for Linux,
>simple editing of mpeg (per GOP) use lve.
>Want more complicated stuff, try http://heroinewarrior.com
>So how much have you spend now?
>Nopes if you downloaded Linux, else, strongly recommended for a beginner
>with Unix, get some distribution, sets you back maybe 50$, and gives you
>thousands of free not limited programs that really use your hardware to the
>full extend, support 64 bit platforms, best networking these exists.
>Designed for performance, not made like a dog with 3 legs as MS windows.

My son is in the other room now fitting a junker PC I gave him with a Linux
partition. I have shown a very low-key interest in what he's doing, as I've
"been there, done that" and really don't have time to invest in all of the
tinkering I know he'll have to do.

I know my Tivo is Linux-driver (er, at least I think I remember reading that
it is), and that's all fine and dandy, as long as I don't have to tinker to
get it to work. I'm not opposed to "tinkering", really ... in fact, I've
proven to be a pretty good PC "tinkerer", if not a bit more than that.

My personal opinion of Linux is somewhat documented online. If you google
for my real name and "Linux", you'll see some parts of my struggles with
Linux and trying to figure out why its threading model is (or at least was)
so dinked. After successfully working with multi-threaded, multi-process
systems for many, many years, the Linux folks seemed to have redefined
"threading" and suddenly their way was the way all threading was supposed to
work. yeah, right.

In summary, I've coded on all sorts of Unix platforms. HP, Sun, FreeBSD,
BSD, AIX and yes, Linux. The brunt of this work was a life sciences
application, loading gobs-of-gigobytes of DNA information into a database,
and working with this data. The Linux of 3 years ago (when I left this
position) did not leave me very impressed, although it was made to work.

I'll let my son (13) set up his PC ... in fact, he's got the GUI up and it
looks better than I remember. I've never been a big fan of MS or Windows
(I'm an old OS/2 guy, and an older CTOS/BTOS fan), but I'm going to attempt
to stick with Win32 software before I backpedal into the world of Linux.

Still looking for Win32 solutions ... I believe they're out there! More in
a different reply.

Nick
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 8:10:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,alt.video.dvd.software (More info?)

In <41ceedbe$2$avpx$mr2ice@news.east.earthlink.net>, on 12/26/2004
at 04:58 PM, "Nick Knight" <bhnc_140_@mindspring.com> said:

>My personal opinion of Linux is somewhat documented online. If you google
>for my real name and "Linux", you'll see some parts of my struggles with

Ooops. I just tried this and apparently my name is more popular than I
would have thought. Most of the posts I found weren't from me. In the era
of which I spoke, I used the email address nick @ secant.com.

Nick
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 8:40:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,alt.video.dvd.software (More info?)

In <lNKdnWWLRcORoVbcRVn-pg@giganews.com>, on 12/23/2004
at 03:43 PM, "Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> said:

>>> This jerky performance, is it only in VideoReDo's editing preview, or
>>>is it there when the .mpg is played afterwards ?

>> I saved the edited clip to disk as a new MPG. Playing that MPG back shows
>> the jerky behaviour.

> You might try using different players, as the playback codec used could
>be a factor, although I've never found one that had a problem with
>VideoReDo's output.

Ok, here's an update, albeit a somewhat lengthy one.

I tried playing my final MPG file using several different players: Nero
Showtime, Win MediaPlayer and VideoRedo itself. All exhibited the jerky
video.

> It has worked great for me. Another thing you might try is running the
>effected .mpg through the "Quickfix", it might find the problem and fix it.

I tried the quickfix option and it made no difference.

>Oh, and how does it work with .mpg
>from another source and other ones from the same source?
>( It might help to know if the problem is related to an
>interaction with certain .mpg or more general.)

Hmmm. As it turns out, most of my raw video originates from the same source
.... I record almost all of it via my Media Center tuner. Yet the raw video
plays fine with all players. Showbiz is always used to convert dvr-ms to
mpg.

Perhaps I'll find an existing video clip from somewhere ... I've got a ton
off the internet.

> I looked through the forum at: http://forums.videoredo.com/
>and didn't see anything that looked exactly like your problem, but it was
>more of a quick scan so you could still find an answer there. You could
>post your problem there and have a good
>chance that Dan or someone else will have a better solution.

I will take this course, thanks.

> In my opinion it would be well worth the effort to work out any problem,
>with VideoReDo or find were any conflict exists
>with your current setup. You might want to give the new
>TMPGEnc Editor a try though, even if just to see if you still
>have the problem when using that.
> www.pegasys-inc.com

I'll try this editor, although the name looks familiar and I may have looked
at it already. I've spent the past week or so going through quite a pile of
editors, all with disappointing results. So far, VideoReDo has produced the
"most usable" results! With the noted problem, which is still significant
to me.

I rediscovered Nero's Vision Express. I was exicted, long ago, at the
prospect of using this, as it edited dvr-ms files directly w/out conversion.
Great! Except that it constantly crashed the minute I would start to save a
finalized video. The latest and greatest version does not crash! But it
produced a an MPEG with the audio offset significantly from the video
(started with an MPG original clip). Looks like a Godzilla movie!

In fact, the couple of other editors I have tried ALL seem to offset the
audio. (ULead VideoStudio 8 and HT Video Editor the latest tries). I went
back and tried ShowBiz again, it comes out OK but now that I've seen "fast
editing", it's even slower than I remembered. How painful! So, it and
AudioReDo seem to be able to handle the audio, but I'm still hoping to
de-jerk the video with VideoReDo.

I'll see if I can't get any help with VideoReDo from its forums and its
author. So far it shows the most promise.

Nick
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 11:31:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,alt.video.dvd.software (More info?)

"Nick Knight" <bhnc_140_@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:41cef799$1$avpx$mr2ice@news.east.earthlink.net...
> In <lNKdnWWLRcORoVbcRVn-pg@giganews.com>, on 12/23/2004
> at 03:43 PM, "Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> said:
>
>>>> This jerky performance, is it only in VideoReDo's editing preview,
>>>> or
>>>>is it there when the .mpg is played afterwards ?
>
>>> I saved the edited clip to disk as a new MPG. Playing that MPG back
>>> shows
>>> the jerky behaviour.
>
>> You might try using different players, as the playback codec used
>> could
>>be a factor, although I've never found one that had a problem with
>>VideoReDo's output.
>
> Ok, here's an update, albeit a somewhat lengthy one.
>
> I tried playing my final MPG file using several different players: Nero
> Showtime, Win MediaPlayer and VideoRedo itself. All exhibited the jerky
> video.
>
>> It has worked great for me. Another thing you might try is running the
>>effected .mpg through the "Quickfix", it might find the problem and fix
>>it.
>
> I tried the quickfix option and it made no difference.
>
>>Oh, and how does it work with .mpg
>>from another source and other ones from the same source?
>>( It might help to know if the problem is related to an
>>interaction with certain .mpg or more general.)
>
> Hmmm. As it turns out, most of my raw video originates from the same
> source
> ... I record almost all of it via my Media Center tuner. Yet the raw
> video
> plays fine with all players. Showbiz is always used to convert dvr-ms to
> mpg.
>
> Perhaps I'll find an existing video clip from somewhere ... I've got a ton
> off the internet.
>
>> I looked through the forum at: http://forums.videoredo.com/
>>and didn't see anything that looked exactly like your problem, but it was
>>more of a quick scan so you could still find an answer there. You could
>>post your problem there and have a good
>>chance that Dan or someone else will have a better solution.
>
> I will take this course, thanks.
>
>> In my opinion it would be well worth the effort to work out any
>> problem,
>>with VideoReDo or find were any conflict exists
>>with your current setup. You might want to give the new
>>TMPGEnc Editor a try though, even if just to see if you still
>>have the problem when using that.
>> www.pegasys-inc.com
>
> I'll try this editor, although the name looks familiar and I may have
> looked
> at it already. I've spent the past week or so going through quite a pile
> of
> editors, all with disappointing results. So far, VideoReDo has produced
> the
> "most usable" results! With the noted problem, which is still significant
> to me.
>
> I rediscovered Nero's Vision Express. I was exicted, long ago, at the
> prospect of using this, as it edited dvr-ms files directly w/out
> conversion.
> Great! Except that it constantly crashed the minute I would start to save
> a
> finalized video. The latest and greatest version does not crash! But it
> produced a an MPEG with the audio offset significantly from the video
> (started with an MPG original clip). Looks like a Godzilla movie!
>
> In fact, the couple of other editors I have tried ALL seem to offset the
> audio. (ULead VideoStudio 8 and HT Video Editor the latest tries). I
> went
> back and tried ShowBiz again, it comes out OK but now that I've seen "fast
> editing", it's even slower than I remembered. How painful! So, it and
> AudioReDo seem to be able to handle the audio, but I'm still hoping to
> de-jerk the video with VideoReDo.
>
> I'll see if I can't get any help with VideoReDo from its forums and its
> author. So far it shows the most promise.
>
> Nick
>

One other thing; How does it look when played on a settop DVD
player? Depending on how the interlace issues were handled, a
jerkiness can showup on PC players that isn't there when played on
a settop player to a normal TV.

Luck;
Ken
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 2:27:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop,alt.video.dvd.software (More info?)

In <lNKdnWWLRcORoVbcRVn-pg@giganews.com>, on 12/23/2004
at 03:43 PM, "Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> said:

>>"Nick Knight" <bhnc_140_@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>news:41cb2f29$2$avpx$mr2ice@news.east.earthlink.net...

>> I just tried something that seemed to work and I liked. Editing was TOO
>> easy and quick ... let's see what it is called: VideoReDo. However,
>> resulting MPG file is herky-jerky; strange, short speedups every 2-3
>> seconds. Great editing, but it doesn't do me much good it the results
>> don't save correctly.
>>------------------------------

> It has worked great for me. Another thing you might try is running the
>effected .mpg through the "Quickfix", it might find the problem and fix it.
>Oh, and how does it work with .mpg
>from another source and other ones from the same source?
>( It might help to know if the problem is related to an
>interaction with certain .mpg or more general.)

> In my opinion it would be well worth the effort to work out any problem,
>with VideoReDo or find were any conflict exists
>with your current setup.

Thanks, Ken, for all of the help and suggestions. It's been awhile since
these posts, but I wanted to provide an update.

As Ken suggested, I wrote to support at VideoReDo.com explaining my problem.
I got a fairly quick response (a couple of hours) from "Dan" asking
questions. He even suggested I take a small sample of the source video and
post it to their ftp site. I posted the 20MB clip quickly, and explained
more about my setup (Windows MCE that records TV to dvr-ms format).

Dan again wrote back quickly, thanking me for the info and the file. He
figured he'd look at it "tomorrow", as it was fairly late in the evening by
this time. I was absolutely fine with this; after dealing with a couple of
support forums for the software that came bundled with my PC and getting
nowhere, I was already happier with this situation. And I was simply
evaling the product!

Dan told a bit of a fib, tho. He didn't bother waiting until "tomorrow".
Sometime later in that same evening (10:30 PM, it appears they're also in
the eastern USA) I got yet-another email from Dan at VideoReDo.

He had looked at my video clip. It seems that the software that had created
it (ShowBiz DVD, which converts my MCE-created dvr-ms files to MPG format)
had recorded headers with an inaccurate framerate (25 fps instead of 29.97
.... and all of my settings are correct). VideoReDo was taking this
framerate seriously and adjusting the video to match the audio. Hence the
periodic "herky jerky" video.

He pointed me to DVDPatch. I downloaded this, let it fix my source file
framerate, did a quick edit with VideoReDo, and the final video came out
perfectly! It's now on DVD and part of my collection.

First, this is the kind of support and company pride you often see in
shareware (er, trialware, whatever is the PC term nowadays). Not all
shareware, but you see enough of this type of support that, well, always
pleases the user. Freeware products are often like this, too. It's more
about the product than "just money".

Now, to VideoReDo itself. After struggling with Showbiz for over a year to
edit my converted dvd-ms files, this tools is like striking gold! I've
edited about a dozen videos I had in my backlog, as it would take so
frigging long to edit them in Showbiz I could never keep up. That is, if
the video was even short enough for Showbiz to handle; a 2 hour movie seemed
to be a heavy load for it, and anything more? Forget about it!

VideoReDo is a treat. Load the video ... this is quick. Navigation to any
spot in the clip, easy. Fine tuning to the exact frame? Very nice ... I
can scroll fast with one slider, scroll much more slowly with a second
slider, then break down to using arrow keys to tune it to the right frame.
Cool! And fast. And easy.

Unfortunately, I still apparently need ShowBiz to convert from dvr-ms format
to mpg. However, I heard that support for this format is probably in
VideoReDo's near-term future. Cha ching!

I found what I was asking for, thanks to Ken and a few others who chimed in
about VideoReDo. I tried some of the other suggestions, but they either
didn't work as easily as I wanted, or I couldn't figure them out at all. I
even went back and retried all editors again, once my framerates were
adjusted. Nothing worked as well for me as VideoReDo.

I'm claiming VideoReDo as my new MPG editor ... I will register it early
this week. And I've already turned a coworker onto the tool, too. It looks
like he's happy with it, also.

Thanks again for all of the help, gang!

Nick
!