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Stop aimhackers fullstop

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Anonymous
June 20, 2004 6:56:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life.counterstrike (More info?)

The most effective and simplest solutions come from real life, this may be
no exception.

The way its been explained to me that aim hacking works is that every client
knows the position of every other clients player, the client runs a server
on their own computer to host the map and updates the other clients
positions per frame...

Okay well we all know how exploitable that is for a good programmer with to
much time on their hands.

The answer light particles - seems simple dosnt it lol.

in real life we see by light bouncing of other items and hiting our eyes
retina...

well why dont they implement this in a game engine, let the light source
send out small particles of light which rebound of any object or surface it
hits, and when this comes in contact with the players avatar allow the
viewing of that object.

Think of it as millions of bouncing bullets. only rather than causing death
they cause the visibility of the objects and other players.

I dont know how difficult or how tasking on current engines this would be to
implement but im gonna be working on a small prototype soon?

The reason I dont think this would be so easy to hack is that the light
particles are moving in real time with the player, and the players
co-ordinates would be unknown to the other clients on the server that is
until line of sight was acquired.

So am i just being to bitchy about people who have absolutly no skill or if
they do they like wasting it by letting a computer do the work.............

If theres anyone out there that sympothises or wants to discuss this please
let me know.

Regards
Anonymous
June 20, 2004 11:43:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life.counterstrike (More info?)

"Jaryth" <Jaryth_Saryth@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cb2ucl$iin$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> The most effective and simplest solutions come from real life, this may be
> no exception.

Read about cheating death
Anonymous
June 20, 2004 4:31:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life.counterstrike (More info?)

"Jaryth" <Jaryth_Saryth@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cb2ucl$iin$1@sparta.btinternet.com...

[Anti-aimbotting]

Ignoring the obvious flaw - the raw processing power needed
(ever seen a raytracing package in action?), there's still the
fundamental issue that what you propose is running in software
on the client machine. If it's software then it can be circumnavigated.
If it's on a cheater's machine then the executable code is wide open
to interference.

There's no widely available and implementable protocol that will
stop aimbotting and wallhacking. Even if games developers wrote
their products in a security-aware fashion (i.e., the first assumption
of any secure system is that it is under attack from the moment it
is deployed - or even under developement, for strict projects), the
simple fact that executable instructions (the protocol) are running
under user space on a desktop PC (an insecure environment) means
that the protocol can quite easily be compromised.

It's a sad state of affairs, but it's as true for games as it is for online
commerce.
Related resources
June 20, 2004 9:03:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life.counterstrike (More info?)

blah blah blah, hippie talk
Anonymous
June 20, 2004 9:09:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life.counterstrike (More info?)

Jaryth wrote:
> The most effective and simplest solutions come from real life, this may be
> no exception.
>
> The way its been explained to me that aim hacking works is that every client
> knows the position of every other clients player, the client runs a server
> on their own computer to host the map and updates the other clients
> positions per frame...
>
> Okay well we all know how exploitable that is for a good programmer with to
> much time on their hands.
>
> The answer light particles - seems simple dosnt it lol.
>
> in real life we see by light bouncing of other items and hiting our eyes
> retina...
>
> well why dont they implement this in a game engine, let the light source
> send out small particles of light which rebound of any object or surface it
> hits, and when this comes in contact with the players avatar allow the
> viewing of that object.
>
> Think of it as millions of bouncing bullets. only rather than causing death
> they cause the visibility of the objects and other players.
>
> I dont know how difficult or how tasking on current engines this would be to
> implement but im gonna be working on a small prototype soon?
>
> The reason I dont think this would be so easy to hack is that the light
> particles are moving in real time with the player, and the players
> co-ordinates would be unknown to the other clients on the server that is
> until line of sight was acquired.
>
> So am i just being to bitchy about people who have absolutly no skill or if
> they do they like wasting it by letting a computer do the work.............
>
> If theres anyone out there that sympothises or wants to discuss this please
> let me know.
>

Effectively running your client on the server sending the images over
the net to your screen and only uploading your mouse and keyboard inputs
would lead to horrible mouse lag making anything other than lan play
impossible.

Plus the server would need ridiculous bandwidth.

Forget it.

Styvaen.
Anonymous
June 21, 2004 1:39:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life.counterstrike (More info?)

"Jaryth" <Jaryth_Saryth@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cb2ucl$iin$1@sparta.btinternet.com...

> I dont know how difficult or how tasking on current engines this would be
to
> implement but im gonna be working on a small prototype soon?

You asking or telling...
Anonymous
June 21, 2004 10:22:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life.counterstrike (More info?)

Absolutely true, not only would that method be difficult to implement
(actually process, let alone cope with underpowered clients, and network
connections), but it wouldn't be a particularly good solution. It could
be circumvented, plus it assumes these are the only methods for aimbots
to use. I remember an old, famous aimbot used a method of replacing
player models with bright red and green characters, and the 'aimbot'
script simply centered such colours (red or green depending on team) in
the middle of the screen. One counter for this was a spray that went
round, or a hacked player model, and made people using aimbots end up
headshotting these sprays and revealing themselves :) 

Keep thinking though ;) 
>
> [Anti-aimbotting]
>
> Ignoring the obvious flaw - the raw processing power needed
> (ever seen a raytracing package in action?), there's still the
> fundamental issue that what you propose is running in software
> on the client machine. If it's software then it can be circumnavigated.
> If it's on a cheater's machine then the executable code is wide open
> to interference.
>
> There's no widely available and implementable protocol that will
> stop aimbotting and wallhacking. Even if games developers wrote
> their products in a security-aware fashion (i.e., the first assumption
> of any secure system is that it is under attack from the moment it
> is deployed - or even under developement, for strict projects), the
> simple fact that executable instructions (the protocol) are running
> under user space on a desktop PC (an insecure environment) means
> that the protocol can quite easily be compromised.
>
> It's a sad state of affairs, but it's as true for games as it is for online
> commerce.
>
>
Anonymous
June 24, 2004 4:24:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life.counterstrike (More info?)

Jaryth wrote:

> Were basically saying that the memory used to move the image from the
> backbuffer to the screen is being exploited? And its mainly OpenGL? I
> get
> that you cant really lock the memory full stop because the graphics
> drivers
> such as OGL and DX do so much farting about with the memory it would
> be
> improbable to make it work.

Any information communicated to the client side or computation that is
done on the client side is subject to being exploited. The only way to
avoid this is to run everything on the server and only send image
snapshots to the client -- totally unfeasible for the framerates
involved in FPS games -- or to completely lock other players out of
their own machines. Something like the latter may be possible with DRM,
but certainly the users wouldn't like it.

The real solution to cheaters is attentive admins.

--
__ Erik Max Francis && max@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/ \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Money talks / But love is for real / And you know that
-- Neneh Cherry
Anonymous
June 24, 2004 12:05:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life.counterstrike (More info?)

As pointed out this is still hackahle, the hack systems exploit the screen
data as much as anything else. cheers

"Erik Max Francis" <max@alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:40DA819D.4841EEF3@alcyone.com...
> Jaryth wrote:
>
> > Were basically saying that the memory used to move the image from the
> > backbuffer to the screen is being exploited? And its mainly OpenGL? I
> > get
> > that you cant really lock the memory full stop because the graphics
> > drivers
> > such as OGL and DX do so much farting about with the memory it would
> > be
> > improbable to make it work.
>
> Any information communicated to the client side or computation that is
> done on the client side is subject to being exploited. The only way to
> avoid this is to run everything on the server and only send image
> snapshots to the client -- totally unfeasible for the framerates
> involved in FPS games -- or to completely lock other players out of
> their own machines. Something like the latter may be possible with DRM,
> but certainly the users wouldn't like it.
>
> The real solution to cheaters is attentive admins.
>
> --
> __ Erik Max Francis && max@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
> / \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
> \__/ Money talks / But love is for real / And you know that
> -- Neneh Cherry
Anonymous
June 28, 2004 8:10:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life.counterstrike (More info?)

Justin wrote:

>blah blah blah, hippie talk
>
>
lol
Anonymous
June 28, 2004 5:37:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life.counterstrike (More info?)

What your sugesting is also called Raytraceing. The only programs which can
do that, is 3d modelling programs like 3dsmax. so you go figure.
Rendering charrecters in Raytraceing would probberly slow your computer to a
halt.

/Ezy

btw. Raytracing is cool. I look forward to the day when 3D games Raytrace
realtime. That would be cool.

"Jaryth" <Jaryth_Saryth@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cb2ucl$iin$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> The most effective and simplest solutions come from real life, this may be
> no exception.
>
> The way its been explained to me that aim hacking works is that every
client
> knows the position of every other clients player, the client runs a server
> on their own computer to host the map and updates the other clients
> positions per frame...
>
> Okay well we all know how exploitable that is for a good programmer with
to
> much time on their hands.
>
> The answer light particles - seems simple dosnt it lol.
>
> in real life we see by light bouncing of other items and hiting our eyes
> retina...
>
> well why dont they implement this in a game engine, let the light source
> send out small particles of light which rebound of any object or surface
it
> hits, and when this comes in contact with the players avatar allow the
> viewing of that object.
>
> Think of it as millions of bouncing bullets. only rather than causing
death
> they cause the visibility of the objects and other players.
>
> I dont know how difficult or how tasking on current engines this would be
to
> implement but im gonna be working on a small prototype soon?
>
> The reason I dont think this would be so easy to hack is that the light
> particles are moving in real time with the player, and the players
> co-ordinates would be unknown to the other clients on the server that is
> until line of sight was acquired.
>
> So am i just being to bitchy about people who have absolutly no skill or
if
> they do they like wasting it by letting a computer do the
work.............
>
> If theres anyone out there that sympothises or wants to discuss this
please
> let me know.
>
> Regards
>
>
!